Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0

biwillia writes: "According to this heise article (in German, or Google translated), free versions of Star Office will now only be available to Solaris users. Free versions for Linux and Windows users will no longer be offered. A homemade translation of the first paragraph reads, 'With version 6.0 of Star Office, scheduled to be released in May, Sun has changed the product politics of their Office package, which had been freely distributed since the aquisition of Hamburg-based Star Division. In the future, Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux versions. Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain free.'"

So what's the price point?

Amazon's current price for StarOffice 5.2 Deluxe is ~$37 and for what I get out of StarOffice that I downloaded from Sun $37 is worth it... (6.0 Beta and 5.2 on my laptop) I'd even say $50 is fine... But if they intend to make this a $199 package... they're not going to get a second look from anyone in the Windows world... To pay 1/2 the price and get even 90% of the features and compatibility isn't going to sway the typical decision makers... To pay a tenth... Now we're talking! Best of luck to Sun, and I hope a lot of this money can go to helping OpenOffice... Which I'll probably have on the laptop while my business runs with Sun for documentation and tech support reasons.

Open Office

Open Office [openoffice.org] will remain free though.

Re:Open Office

In case, like me, you were wondering, from the FAQ [openoffice.org]:

B. Differences between StarOffice and OpenOffice.org

The source code available at OpenOffice.org does not consist of all of the StarOffice code. Usually, the reason for this is that Sun pays to license third party code to include in StarOffice that which it does not have permission to make available in OpenOffice.org. Those things which are or will be present in StarOffice but are not available on OpenOffice.org include:

- Certain fonts (including, especially, Asian language fonts)

- The database component (Adabas D)

- Some templates

- Extensive Clip Art Gallery

- Some sorting functionality (Asian versions)

- Certain file filters

Regards, Ralph.

Open Office works just fine

I don't know about building it, but I've been using their binary release builds for the better part of a year now, and have been quite pleased.

As any project in active development, it has crashed a few times, however every time the crash recovery reopens every document I had open, right down to where the cursor was. Pretty damned slick.

Not to mention it's opened every MS Office document I've thrown at it without a problem. Definitely not complaining.

Re:Open Office works just fine

Of course.

OpenOffice is meant to work with MS-Office (any version).

On the other hand, MS-Windows v.X is meant to not be exactly compatible with documents created with MS-Office v.(X-1).

It was very very obvious with MS-Office 97/95. And it was a RPITA to export from MS-Office 87 to 95 version.

This is what you get with closed file formats. They own your documents.

Re:Remember ..

from http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/mostfaqs.html#7

Differences between StarOffice and OpenOffice.org

o The source code available at OpenOffice.org does not consist of all of the StarOffice code. Usually, the reason for this is that Sun pays to license third party code to include in StarOffice that which it does not have permission to make available in OpenOffice.org. Those things which are or will be present in StarOffice but are not available on OpenOffice.org include:

+ Certain fonts (including, especially, Asian language fonts)

+ The database component (Adabas D)

+ Some templates

+ Extensive Clip Art Gallery

+ Some sorting functionality (Asian versions)

+ Certain file filters

This should be good...

Alright sun just took some awesome software, made it only available by cost and is now running it up against a free version from the same orginal tree. I like this, I'd like to see who ends up better... star office or open office. Of course star office seems alittle more polished but... how many non geeks used it? i use it because it was the best alternative to microsoft office (it had all the feautures... even the massive ram needed). This seems kinda like mozilla vs netscape 6 now... personally i don't like netscape as much as mozilla.

Re:What is new?

StarOffice 6.0 is far better than 5.2. 6.0 boasts better compatibility with MS Office filetypes, a faster and cleaner interface (no more of 5.2's cheesy desktop shit), greater stability, and a bunch of super cool chart/equation/textart type plugins for all of the SO programs. I wouldn't call it an Office Killer, but it is definately pretty close.

Though it may seem strange, it is usually easier to market commercial software than it is free software. Most business customers still associate free software with shoddy shareware. By charging for StarOffice 6.0 and putting it in a nice pretty box Sun has a better chance of gaining marketshare than they would with a free download. Plus die-hard freeloaders who don't want to play still have OpenOffice, so everyone will be happy.

Business 101

It's not an Office killer and Sun knows it.

What it is is a margin-killer.

Microsoft is using its HUGE profits in the Office arena to fund their drive into the enterprise OS market - which is scaring the bajeezus out of Sun's strategic planners. Sun must do something to level the playing field.

To win this battle, Sun doesn't need to capture much market share, all they need to do is give consumers a credible alternative. The bumper-sticker version of this strategy: If you can't beat your competitor, screw up his margin.

I've heard that Office makes up about half of MS's revenue - about 4 billion in the last quarter of '01, that would be about 16 million copies if they're going for $250 on average (I don't know this, I'm just speculating).

If Sun succeeds in forcing them to drop their price by even $10, they've scored a major victory - to the tune of $160 million per quarter. That's not chump change, not even to the beast of Redmond. Remember, Microsoft's profits are somewhat tied to their stock price (they pay their employees largely with stock options) and their stock price is sustained by GROWING REVENUES - which they won't have if they have to drop the price of MS Office.

If you read the preceeding and substitue IBM for Sun, you'll understand IBM's committment to Linux.

Re:Business 101

It's not an Office killer and Sun knows it.

Pity. I think there are a lot of people out there who would pay good money for software that would kill everybody back at their office.

Oh, you mean MS Office...

Open Office to Star Office as Mozilla to Netscape?

Does this essentially lead to a Mozilla-like 'split', where a commercial derivative with extra frills is available on top of a free version (both senses)?

I don't use either - was looking forward to trying Star Office 6 as I'd heard it had removed the custom desktop. Now it looks as if I'll be trying out OpenOffice instead.#

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Open Office to Star Office as Mozilla to Netsca

Does this essentially lead to a Mozilla-like 'split', where a commercial derivative with extra frills is available on top of a free version (both senses)?

Not exactly. Although this is a good comparisson, the commercial version of Netscape is still free. The main difference are testing (Netscape stick to a mozilla version and do a lot of QA testing before moving to another, while mozilla keeps going), features (like that spellchecker) and some 'AOL integration' :).

In the case of Staroffice/OpenOffice, it seems to me that real reason behind the split is to 'force' people to use Solaris instead of Linux. If that's the case, I don't it was a good idea: people will still use Linux (as long as OpenOffice is still available), and the anger against Sun will increase with this move.

Open Office is good.

I have a colleague that's a fairly heavy wordprocessor user. For a while she used Star Office 6.0 beta and liked it. After a minor disaster (crashing HD), we helped her get her machine reinstalled. Just to try it out, we installed Open Office instead. Turns out it's at least as good as the 'real' StarOffice, and she has been happy with it.

So, StarOffice for a branded package with support and feel-good factor for people unsure about this newfangled OPen Source thing; and Open Office for all the rest of us. Fair enough.

/Janne

Linux I can understand, but....

I can see why they might want to stop giving away Linux versions of Star Office, but I'd think they want to keep the Windows versions free. Think about it: If the Windows version is free, it gives more people the ability to use Solaris as their workstation, since they can now give documents to Windows users, and the Windows users really don't have an excuse not to read them. And you're sure they'll be able to see them right (as there are still some issues with saving to MS-Office format in Star Office). Besides that, it gets some Windows users using Star Office instead of microsoft office, so if they're ever able to transition to using Solaris, the switch won't be hard (yeah, there would still be a lot of other problems, but if you want regular secretary/office worker types using your system, that's a good thing). I can't imagine they'll make any money selling Windows versions of the software, will they??

They Have to Make Money on a Product

5.2 already cost $40 for business use. Compare this to MS Office which is over $200 for any use. Charging say, $40-$50 for StarOffice isn't a bad thing, particularly if doing this means they are able to place more copies of StaOffice 6.0 on the shelf beside MS Ofice XP. I believe the only reason 5.2 isn't on %25 of the business desktop in the windows world is because everyone sees MS Office, while mostly the linux community only sees Star Office.

If quality product, worth buying

How is Sun supposed to make money from Star Office if they don't eventually charge for it? I, for one, would be willing to pay a small fee to use Star Office on my two desktops. $35/computer seems reasonable to me. The license shouldn't be tied to an OS, but rather a computer.

Given interoperability, I may purchase one commercial copy of Star Office for my main desktop use, and use Open Office on every other computer, it depends on how well each is distributed.

In some ways, charging for Star Office may be a good thing. Charging for software in the business world gives it some degree of credibility - that software has value if one must pay for it. I'd be even more happy if Sun offered free education and/or personal licenses to try to gain market share, while charging a fair fee to businesses.

I eagerly await Star Office 6 and Open Office 1.

Depends on price - what would you pay?

I wouldn't mind buying a copy if it's reasonable - considering that OpenOffice *IS* a good viable alternative to StarOffice, they'll need to bundle some good 'value-adds' but keep the price reasonable. $25/seat might be a good price point. $200 won't be - I may as well just use MS Office at that point. I'm just throwing numbers out as I haven't seen anything at all re: pricing on this.

Value-adds I wouldn't mind paying for if they're bundled: Professional clipart, professional templates, multiple language dictionaries - all those would be a good start.

I don't think you will.

There are other free or pretty damned cheap office suites on the market today. Koffice and 602 immediately come to mind. These days nobody is able to sell office suites because MS has a chokehold on the market. Wordperfect suite and lotus smartsuite cost less then office yet they have a miniscule percentage fo the market. Staroffice is MUCH cheaper and still nobody uses it. Openoffice is free and still not even the smallest dent in the MS stranglehold.

No matter how cheap your suite is, no matter how good it is, no matter even if it's free. Businesses won't use it because the PHB's are all stupid and people won't use it because they want the same thing at home that they have at work.

Abiword and OpenOffice

I imagine they (AbiWord [abiword.org] & OpenOffice [openoffice.org]) are going to get a volley load of hits.

What are the major differences currently between OpenOffice and StarOffice?

I remember a DoD procurement [gcn.com] elated to StarOffice, has the price remained the same? (Are they running it on Solaris anyway?)

This sounds like a bad idea for Sun

Bearing in mind that there is not exactly an overwhelming demand for Linux on the Desktop, charging for the Linux version will mean that they will basically get no money from that direction.

Given that they will make no money, and they won't be able to persuade new Linux users to use Star Office in future; and Linux is looking like it will be popular in future; they're losing lots of future profit.

If they had waited till it was popular then they would have been able to do the switch THEN, and have a way of screwing money out of most of the Linux users from that point on; they'll lose this.

Also, it's a bad idea because Sun is a competitor of Microsoft, and Linux is challenging Microsoft for the desktop, and your enemies enemy is your friend.

Then why the penguin suit?

Is this Scott McNealy's revenge for having to wear some stupid penguin get-up?

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-832463.html

Is the article correct

I'm very suspicious about the accuracy of this article. Sun have just announced that they'll be releasing their own Linux distribution (I think that they should call it 'Polaris'). My guess is that they'll provide a free downloadable version and charge for boxed CDs with documentation.

HH

Make more money doing both Commercial and Free

Why not adopt RedHat's marketing model?

By selling it at the store for $$ and making it available by download for free.

I'm still buying RedHat CDs despite downloading various rawhide. I can't be alone on this.

Direct quote from sun.com

No longer will any one company determine what is best for the market or the user, but the market will decide and users will choose.

No longer will files and documents wear the cement shoes of a single vendor or operating system, but standards will flourish and compatibility reign across platforms.

For the first time, a commercial grade, full-featured office suite will be opened up to the innovative input of the global developer community.

Free to be changed. Free to be improved. Free to adapt to meet the needs of any situation. Free.

Wait, I can't make money from free? Nevermind, we're gonna charge for it.

A couple comments

I heard a talk with McNealy where he was frustrated that businesses wouldn't take up Star Office. He talked to some hot shots at other companies and heard the same thing a few times - We love it, it does what we need it to for most of our users but we just don't trust something that's free. Well, now we get to see if businesses will take a product more seriously if it costs some. I'm willing to bet that it will be very very cheap compared to MS products. This should be interesting. Oh, has anyone seen any info on how much it might cost?

Re:This oft-quoted argument is hooey

I don't know of any quotes regarding StarOffice, but Larry Wall holds a similar view:

"You've got to understand their market has always been the Windows space, where you're actually doing people a favor by charging them money for things, because that's the only way to keep from confusing them. Linux users are smarter than this, of course, but some Linux users aren't quite smart enough to realize Windows is a different culture, and Perl, being a postmodern language that is sensitive to context, will look different in a different culture."

[Regarding ActivePerl, which sells Perl for Windows]

Sometimes you have to actually charge money so that people will take you seriously. ActivePerl is used by quite a few Windows shops.

OpenOffice going to 1.0

Actually, this [openoffice.org] is a bit of a disappointment. While the general idea of setting a goal of getting to 1.0 is all good - witness what happened to the quality of Mozilla when they stopped feature creeping - I can't help but feel the Open Office crew are letting the side down a bit by admitting that their 1.0 release will really be about an 0.8.5 level release and will still contain bugs. It's all a bit, well, Microsofty.

Still, I can see some interesting projects about to kick off - The Open Office wordprocessor as a KPart, for example :)

Dave

This is a good idea

Good for them. Not because I think they should be charging for it, but because people will feel better paying for it.

When you go to a manager and try to argue for free software over MS stuff, they can't get their heads around the idea that the one that is free has value. Managers just don't get it.

The only way to convince some people that this is quality software, is to charge them money for it.

StarOffice 6.0 == OpenOffice 1.0

According to this [openoffice.org] the Openoffice folks will be releasing 1.0.0 right around the time StarOffice 6 comes out. Neither one looks to be a radical departure from the current 6xx builds, which I've been using quite happily for some time.

Probably the biggest difference will be the lack of support for the Sun ONE WebTop [sun.com](whatever, exactly, that is) in OpenOffice.

Probably good for Linux

If we want Linux to become main stream then we have got to be willing to allow companies to make a profit by supporting us.

One of the main excuses that I hear for not running Linux on the desktop is lack of professional quality software. Sure, there is a lot of good stuff for Linux but it has a low visibility. No ads, not sitting on the shelf in software stores.

I would think that $40.00 for a quality office suite would be worth the money especially if the product gets advertising that mentions Linux.

Corporate POV

A pasted translation from the German page above quickly points out that Sun is doing it so they can provide a supported product to businesses.

I can confirm that my organization (Fortune 100) didn't give StarOffice a first look because it was "free". They don't trust free s/w and need to hold someone accountable if there are problems (I should point out that we don't really hold M$ accountable for much, but the exec$ feel goo about the possibility of maybe being able to hopefully do so if there are really, really, major problems).

I can also confirm that we would like to save megabuck$ and provide some productivity suite competition so we can stop getting royally soaked by mr gates & co.

And I can confirm that other large organizations expressed the same feelings directly to Sun (with us).

HOWEVER, Visio is the "killer app" that will stop us from using StarOffice. Without a Visio-killer (open source or otherwise), M$ will continue to dominate. Buying Visio was a very strategic move on Redmond's part and it will prevent alot of places from switching since they would be fearful that it would not "integrate" properly with StarOffice (ever try to embed a complex Visio diagram in a Word file? there are integration problems enough within the suite, let alone outside of it).

So, Sun will make some money in the small-to-medium sized orgs, but M$ will continue to rake in the dough from the big boyz.

Which way's up again?

In one hand we have Sun Increasing [its] Commitment to Gnome [slashdot.org], and yet on the other it's abandoning a critical product in its battle against MSFT [microsoft.com] and professing that Linux on the Mainframe [is] Not a Good Idea [sun.com]. Microsoft are regularly raising the bar when it comes to talking to their client operating systems from non Windows Servers (eg the infamous Kerberos PAC [google.com]), so surely having your own office suite appearing on Windows clients can't hurt, especially as everything starts to look like a big (.NET centred) communications network. I wonder what IBM thinks about all this? I get the feeling they're closer to the mark than Sun, and if nothing else they've decided their direction and are throwing their whole weight behind it, which is commendable (certainly preferrable over this wishy washy floundering from Sun). And what's with bashing Linux *and* pulling Solaris for Intel architectures. Ok, so you're a hardware vendor, but how's anyone meant to know their way around Solaris with uni labs migrating to Linux left right and centre and with you revoking any chance a hobbyist had of playing with it without parting with arms and legs for Sun hardware? Why don't you just let go of Java so we can stop concerning ourselves with what direction you've chosen for today and get on with ensuring J2EE retains its position in the web services market.

Yeah, but at least the data formats aren't closed

I agree with much of what people are saying in support of Sun. It makes sense. If I find the product useful and it helps me make money, why the hell wouldn't I buy it? However, the reason I won't buy Microsoft Office, as useful as it is, is that it traps you into THEIR data formats... closed, and owned by MS.

I at least know what WHATEVER I do with a bought copy of StarOffice 6.0, will be written to an OPEN and documented implementation of XML (albeit compressed and fussed with a bit in a directory structure), but still open and documented.

I know that ten years from know I'll be able to get at my files without going... oh wait, I would have to upgrade to windows 2010, in order to run Office 2010, in order to get at MY data, stuff that I wrote, worked on and own... and who knows, maybe MS will choose to wage a lawsuite against those that reverse engineer their file format. They are just waiting for supporting legislation to do so... I just know it.

And before anybody says, that I could just keep the copy of windows and office that I have, forget that once the hardware dies, any NEW computer I buy is only going to come with a new version of windows, and I only have a snowball's chance in hell having it be binary compatible with the version of Office that I might have.

Bah, StarOffice as a pay-ware front end to an open data format, is light years better than MS Office as a front end to MS's own data format.

Usual grumble

I work for Sun, and submitted this story more than a month ago when we received internal email about the plans to charge for StarOffice.

FWIW, here's the original email that was sent out on Friday, January 11:

New Business Model for StarOffice/StarSuite 6.0
I am pleased to announce some significant changes to the StarOffice marketing strategy and corresponding business model. Along with our top goals of enabling desktop sales for Sun and being a critical component of the Sun ONE software stack, StarOffice is moving to a revenue based model. The major changes to the business model are:

Two products available to the market: (1)StarOffice/StarSuite 6.0 (Enterprise Edition) -- Sun sells & supports, (2) OpenOffice (Community Edition) -- free from OpenOffice.org and other sites outside of Sun

Other changes will include:
- Removal of the full function, no-charge downloads from Sun
- StarOffice 6.0 and service offerings available on GSO prices list at FCS (per copy, site license, OEM and channel pricing)
- Global distribution channels: GSO, OEMs, Retail, Sun Store

The goal of this new business model is to generate revenue by providing a low cost, full featured office productivity alternative to the market place. Feedback from the market validates that customers are placing an economic value on StarOffice that is significantly greater than zero. This model allows Sun to generate new revenue from these customers willing to pay for StarOffice as well as creating pull for new systems, software and services revenue.

For those customers that would like to use a basic office suite at no charge, a "Community Edition" will continue to be available via the OpenOffice.org project and other download sites outside of Sun.

This is an exciting time for StarOffice as customers, partners, press and analyst community are eager for a viable alternative and highly supportive of our efforts.

Over the next 90 days, SSG will be focused on delivering:

• GSO Readiness programs -- enabling any sales rep to sell StarOffice
  • Sales kits, channel program, TCO analysis, white papers, demos
• Enterprise Support programs
  • Training, consulting services and support offerings

Stay tuned for more details on the specific programs and pricing to be available soon.

Pat Sueltz
EVP and GM, Software Systems Group

What about the forthcoming Sun Linux?

If Sun's releasing their own version of Linux [sun.com] I wonder if it will come with StarOffice, or if you'd have to pay for that too..

(And for the record, I think this is great. If you aren't happy with OO, then pay your $35 and get a supported version. As long as SO and OO use the same code base, like Mozilla and NS, I think it's a good move by Sun.)

Lust like NetBeans/Forte

The new arrangement is the same one that they are already using with NetBeans, as far as I can tell.

Sun will support a "commercial" version of OpenOffice called "StarOffice". The purchasers of StarOffice will get benefits (support, additional features, etc) that the users of the free OpenOffice version won't get. That seems fair and it provides an incentive for customers to help support OpenOffice financially.

Some people might be cynical, but I think that the NetBeans/Forte arrangement has worked out pretty well. The Sun developers working on NetBeans work hard to make NetBeans great. They have to work on the Forte-only features but I think that the development of the Forte-only features benefits NetBeans as well (any architectural improvements in Forte must get pushed down to NetBean in order to keep them interoperable). I think things will work the same way with StarOffice and OpenOffice.

!free = good

So StarOffice is now going seriously commercial. No more free StarOffice.

Good!

This means that from now on, I can try to convince people to switch to StarOffice because it is less expensive. No longer do I have to worry about management taking me out of the bonus pool because I suggest switching to that free stuff, which is always:
- Unsupported (Not that Microsoft's pay-per-incedence support is any better than Ms. Cleo.)
- Promoting communism.
- Hurting the economy by taking jobs.

Seriously, Sun tried very, very hard to give StarOffice away (Though it could have done better.), and people just didn't catch on. Maybe now that StarOffice is the product of a big-name American computer company, and not just a free app by a little german company, I can finally convince all those asshole PHB's to switch.

Companies will probably like this

Companies will like this - it adds credibility. If they are giving away this for free - how do they earn money on this? Can we be sure that they will continue to develop on this? (this is what companies are thinking!).

As a student or normal user, you can just download Open Office and use that instead or maybe Staroffice will still be free for personal use - I could easily imagine that.

No matter what, it would be cool to have Staroffice to replace MS Office. I'm not talking about the fact that it is open source, although that is great too, but it is *not* the most important thing IMHO. The greatest thing would be the open document format! It removes the possibility of lock-in and that is what currently binds people to MS Office and makes it difficult for companies to drop it.

Re:Sure Sun gets it.

the main problem is that sun shoots itself in the foot. examples :
1. Microsoft releases C# with large amounts of adverts. Sun goes off and releases Java 1.4 with non blocking i/o and ssl support (both advertised loudly) and then ensures that the ssl stuff doesnt work with the non blocking i/o due to the bugs present in java 1.4 which was rushed to the door too early... Result? people look at C#.
2. Ximian goes off and announces Mono which is the open sourced C# clone. Sun proceeds to piss off the apache group in a very public way who then complain loudly that java is a proprietary language. Result? people look at C#.
3. Sun announces linux support on an expanded cobalt line and drop x86 solaris in favour of linux. Sun then decides to have their cheif competitive officer write a very anti linux article. Result? linux community is pissed. sun customers look away from the cobalt line. sun customers are confused. sun customers start looking at ibm.
4. Sun announces that it is open sourcing staroffice. Linux community is really happy. sun customers start to look at replacing NT with linux and staroffice on PCs. Sun decides to charge for startoffice for linux. Result? sun customers go - huh? linux community hates sun and starts using the open source LGPLed code and ignores staroffice and sun.