Public Outcry Over Popup Ads

JCMay writes: "FoxNews is reporting that more and more people are growing tired of so-called "pop-under" ads. Most fascinating I think is the comparison between these ads and gangland street violence: "They?'re like drive-by shootings," said Kipp Cheng, interactive news editor at Adweek. "Consumers will not put up with that." To FoxNews' credit, they even mention ways people can control pop-up ads, including a link to one of the worst offenders, offering a way to shut up those X-10 ads, even if for only a month." Fortunately, Konqueror allows you to disable popups with a single checkbox.

More than 30 days hack?

The link for the opt out is:
http://www.x10.com/home/optout.cgi?DAY=30&PAGE=htt p://www.x10.com/x10ads1.htm [x10.com]

I wonder if changing the DAY= value will actually work... looking at the resulting cookie didn't tell me much, but I've never actually used cookies, so I am not familiar with the format.

More to come...

We're going to see quite a few more of these in the very near future. My ad broker has infomed me that Orbitz.com, GetSmart Mortgage, ConsumerInfo, GetSmart Credit Card, and LowerMyBills are going to join the same campaigns. Someone should let these companies know that this sucks before they run with it...

Anonymous to protect my job...

Be prepared to pay

Hey, I hate these ad's as much as anybody, but I hate the alternative even more. If you disable the advertising on a given site, that site stops earning money from that advertising, and either turns into a pay site, or closes it's doors.

--ST

Well...

For Win32, all you need is regex knowledge and The Proxomitron [spywaresucks.org].

Re:Some popups are good

Mozilla allows this. Check out the release notes [mozilla.org] on the latest version. It's through JavaScript, but it's easy to see what to do. I just blocked all of them, though.

--Kevin

Many ways to block ads

There are many ways of blocking ads.

You can use a filtering proxy, like Junkbuster [junkbuster.com]. Unfortunately, I find that Junkbuster slows down my connections too much, and doesn't forward error messages correctly, so it's not 100% transparent.

My favorite solution is to use /etc/hosts to list all the known ad servers and direct them to 127.0.0.1. I then run a webserver on my local box with the not-found error set to redirect to a transparent image. (I use IP aliasing on the loopback device for sites that use direct IP numbers for their ad servers.) This works for most sites, though some (like slashdot) serve ads off the same server that serves regular images.

Using the /etc/hosts method, I occasionally look through my cookies file and find indications of sites that need to be added. It's not perfect, but I'm satisfied with it.

Browser-based solutions are a good idea. I would love to block images that match certain dimensions (1x1) or have a URL that matches some regexp (/ads/).

Of course, the issue here is pop-up ads, which should be blocked by having browsers reject requests to open new windows that aren't in response to a mouse click.

KeenSpot/Space bans popup ads

KeenSpot Enterntainment [keenspot.com] bans popup ads on it's KeenSpot and KeenSpace networks, and encourages reporting popup ads on it's forums. It's always been their policy to thwap advertizers who want to use popup ads. It looks like they were ahead of the times in this respect.

--
WolfSkunks for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.keenspace.com";

I would like to thank X10

I had apparently forgotten to turn Java and Javascript off when I recently installed Mozilla. Thankfully, X10 was right there to remind me to take care of that oversight. Sincerely, A Former X10 Customer

Re:More than 30 days hack?

looks like you found it too....i'll find out in 30000 days ;)

From the Horses mouth

Q: Can you turn your ads off so I never see them again?

A: Click Here! This link will prevent your computer from having the X10 "pop-under" ads appear for the next 30 days! You must make sure you have your cookies enabled, for this link will give your computer a cookie that will disallow X10 pop-under ads from appearing on your computer as you "surf" the Internet. If you clear or delete your cookies, then it will be possible for X10's pop-under ads to appear on your machine. If you don't know what a "cookie" is, then you're probably set and don't have to worry about it - just click this link to remove the ads!
A. Other: if you disable JavaScript in your browser the ads will not open, though this may prevent you from seeing some things you want to see. Ad-blocking software will also help with this problem.

I love that the call their own business a "problem"!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.

Last time this came up...

...there were a lot of good tips. Just this morning I screamed "!YA BASTA!" and used the /. search box to find that thread, and downloaded Webwasher [webwasher.com].

Funny coincidence to see this thread "pop up" right after doing that.
--

Re:More than 30 days hack?

Apparently it does. I tried DAY=365, and even though the resulting display page said 30 days, the cookie doesn't expire for one year...

Mozilla 0.9.2 Blocks Popups

> Fortunately, Konqueror allows you to disable popups with a single checkbox.

Mozilla 0.9.2 can block popups, too, but there's no UI for it yet. Add this to your prefs.js file:

user_pref("capability.policy.default.Window.open", "noAccess");

You can also allow popups from some sites. See the 0.9.2 release notes [mozilla.org] for details.

X10 opt out doesn't work

I've used thier opt-out link a couple of times, but still get the popup ads for X10. Banner ads don't work. The click-through rates have been dropping like a stone since 1994. Nobody clicks on ads anymore.

My question is what makes these advertisers think that we are suddenly going to say "Oh! Wow! I wasn't going to buy your product before.... but, since you popped up an ad in my face, I just changed my mind. Here's my money!"

Maybe if we're all really lucky, the Net will revert back to the way it was. All the commercial sites will give up trying to "make a quick buck" off the Internet. They will close their doors and go away. Then, since there is no more money to be made or commercial content to be seen... all the marketing idiots will go away too.

In the end, we will be left with text-only pages (viewable in Lynx) with no ads, no Flash, no Quicktimes, and no corporate American bullshit. I don't understand -- why is this is a bad thing again!?!? I would love to go back to the Web the way it was in 1993 - 94. No Porn. No Ads. No Bullshit. No Morons. No Commercialism. Just Net.

My /etc/hosts

127.0.0.1 localhost

#
# The following is to kill off web advertisements
#
# This also kills some user-tracking cookie servers.
#
# This works best if you run a web server that sends a redirect to
# a transparent image for non-found errors.
#
# This list has grown up over time. No effort has been made to verify that all
# the hosts listed here still exist.
#
# A few servers serve ads with URLs based on IP numbers instead of host names.
# The following IP numbers are for hosts that serve ads:
# 159.33.1.57
# 199.172.144.25
# 208.143.212.30
# 208.178.101.42 ww2.salon.com
# 208.178.101.43 ww3.salon.com
# 208.178.101.46 ww6.salon.com
# 209.207.224.220
# 209.249.169.51 imgfarm.sjc.mediaplex.com.
# 216.34.88.243 ???.avenuea.com
# Unfortunately, I can't deal with those here. Instead, use netconf
# to specify ip aliases for those addresses on the loopback device.
#
127.0.0.1 imageserv2.imgis.com
127.0.0.1 cw.cache.imgis.com
127.0.0.1 fp.cache.imgis.com
127.0.0.1 adforce.imgis.com
127.0.0.1 adforce.ads.imgis.com
127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net m.doubleclick.net m1.doubleclick.net ln.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad2.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad.au.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad.uk.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad.de.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ads01.focalink.com ads02.focalink.com ads03.focalink.com ads04.focalink.com ads05.focalink.com ads06.focalink.com ads07.focalink.com ads08.focalink.com ads09.focalink.com ads10.focalink.com
127.0.0.1 ads11.focalink.com ads12.focalink.com ads13.focalink.com ads14.focalink.com ads15.focalink.com ads16.focalink.com ads17.focalink.com ads18.focalink.com ads19.focalink.com ads20.focalink.com
127.0.0.1 ads21.focalink.com ads22.focalink.com ads23.focalink.com ads24.focalink.com ads25.focalink.com ads26.focalink.com ads27.focalink.com ads28.focalink.com ads29.focalink.com ads30.focalink.com
127.0.0.1 ph-ad19.focalink.com
127.0.0.1 ads.smartclicks.com
127.0.0.1 fooladserver.fool.com
127.0.0.1 fooladserver1.fool.com fooladserver2.fool.com fooladserver3.fool.com fooladserver4.fool.com
127.0.0.1 ad.preferences.com media.preferences.com gm.preferences.com static.preferences.com
127.0.0.1 adfu.blockstackers.com
127.0.0.1 www.ad.tomshardware.com
127.0.0.1 maximumpcads.imaginemedia.com
127.0.0.1 a32.g.a.yimg.com
127.0.0.1 us.a1.yimg.com
127.0.0.1 ads.weather.com
127.0.0.1 www.adclub.net
127.0.0.1 leader.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 commonwealth.riddler.com
127.0.0.1 server3.pennyweb.com
127.0.0.1 www.burstnet.com
127.0.0.1 ad-adex3.flycast.com
127.0.0.1 dar-ad.flycast.com
127.0.0.1 adex3.flycast.com
127.0.0.1 360interactive-ad.flycast.com
127.0.0.1 www.eads.com
127.0.0.1 www.computercontrolled.com
127.0.0.1 image.eimg.com
127.0.0.1 jeeves.flycast.com
127.0.0.1 ads.fool.com
127.0.0.1 ads.adflight.com
127.0.0.1 ads.fp.sandpiper.net
127.0.0.1 ads1.zdnet.com ads2.zdnet.com ads3.zdnet.com ads4.zdnet.com ads5.zdnet.com
127.0.0.1 ads.web.aol.com
127.0.0.1 static.admaximize.com
127.0.0.1 ads.freshmeat.net
127.0.0.1 banner.orb.net
127.0.0.1 ads.msn.com
127.0.0.1 ads.bankrate.com
127.0.0.1 ads.x10.com
127.0.0.1 ads.ilife.com
127.0.0.1 UGO.eu-adcenter.net
127.0.0.1 image.accendo.com
127.0.0.1 banners.egroups.com
127.0.0.1 ads.station.sony.com
127.0.0.1 ad.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 banner.linksynergy.com
127.0.0.1 adcreatives.imaginemedia.com
127.0.0.1 Ogilvy.ngadcenter.net
127.0.0.1 www.websponsors.com
127.0.0.1 image.ugo.com
127.0.0.1 netadsrv.iworld.com
127.0.0.1 ads.lycos.com
127.0.0.1 ads.idahostatesman.com
127.0.0.1 ads.admonitor.net
127.0.0.1 ads.ecircles.com
127.0.0.1 image.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 websponsors.com
127.0.0.1 a1896.g.akamaitech.net
127.0.0.1 a8.g.akamaitech.net
127.0.0.1 a1868.g.akamai.net
127.0.0.1 a1444.g.akamai.net
127.0.0.1 a852.g.akamai.net
127.0.0.1 ads.tromaville.com
127.0.0.1 adimages.go.com
127.0.0.1 servedby.advertising.com
127.0.0.1 a.r.tv.com
127.0.0.1 banners.cyberrebate.com
127.0.0.1 retaildirect.realmedia.com
127.0.0.1 images.go2net.com
127.0.0.1 ads.nytimes.com
127.0.0.1 ups3.uexpress.com
127.0.0.1 adrunner.mycomputer.com
127.0.0.1 ads.tucows.com
127.0.0.1 lnads.osdn.com
127.0.0.1 s2a.realmedia.com
127.0.0.1 connect.247media.ads.link4ads.com
127.0.0.1 ups4.uexpress.com
127.0.0.1 ads1.intelliads.com
127.0.0.1 kcookie.netscape.com
127.0.0.1 voter-images.adbureau.net
127.0.0.1 media-adrunner.mycomputer.com
127.0.0.1 adserver.colleges.com
127.0.0.1 sfads.osdn.com
127.0.0.1 etad.telegraph.co.uk
127.0.0.1 www.vicinity.com
127.0.0.1 www.commission-junction.com
127.0.0.1 www.webspawner.com
127.0.0.1 m.tribalfusion.com
127.0.0.1 promo.cuica.net
127.0.0.1 adserver.matchcraft.com
127.0.0.1 fmads.osdn.com sd-images.osdn.com
127.0.0.1 www.qksrv.net
127.0.0.1 allegiantmarketing.com
127.0.0.1 media.fastclick.net
127.0.0.1 www.domaindirect.com
127.0.0.1 www.avsads.com
127.0.0.1 ads.quicken.com
127.0.0.1 ads.intuit.com
127.0.0.1 g.fool.com
127.0.0.1 images.cybereps.com
127.0.0.1 adfarm.mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 img-sjc.wip.mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 img-iad.wip.mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 img-snv.wip.mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 mojofarm.mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 altfarm.mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 ads.userfriendly.org
127.0.0.1 www3.bannerspace.com
127.0.0.1 statse.webtrendslive.com
127.0.0.1 global.msads.net
127.0.0.1 imp.clickability.com
127.0.0.1 stats.superstats.com code.superstats.com
127.0.0.1 toolbar.netscape.com
127.0.0.1 adserver.greatvehicles.com
127.0.0.1 hc2.humanclick.com
127.0.0.1 www.naj.sk
127.0.0.1 view.avenuea.com
127.0.0.1 stats.lwn.net
127.0.0.1 ad.etech.sk

#
# The following list is based on the default blocking from Junkbuster.
# I've cut out anything with wildcards, subdirectories, or ports.
# Junkbuster is no longer distributing this list.
#
127.0.0.1 1ad.prolinks.de
127.0.0.1 ad-up.com
127.0.0.1 ad.adsmart.net
127.0.0.1 ad.atlas.cz
127.0.0.1 ad.blm.net
127.0.0.1 ad.dogpile.com
127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad.infoseek.com
127.0.0.1 ad.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 ad.mgd.de
127.0.0.1 ad.uk.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ad.vol.at
127.0.0.1 adbot.com
127.0.0.1 adbot.theonion.com
127.0.0.1 adbureau.net
127.0.0.1 adcontent.gamespy.com
127.0.0.1 adcount.hollywood.com
127.0.0.1 adforce.adtech.de
127.0.0.1 adimage.blm.net
127.0.0.1 adimages.go.com
127.0.0.1 adisnet.com
127.0.0.1 adlink.deh.de
127.0.0.1 adone.com
127.0.0.1 adpower.de
127.0.0.1 ads.austriaonline.at
127.0.0.1 ads.bomis.com
127.0.0.1 ads.burstnet.com
127.0.0.1 ads.chickclick.com
127.0.0.1 ads.clickagents.com
127.0.0.1 ads.csi.emcweb.com
127.0.0.1 ads.enliven.com
127.0.0.1 ads.filez.com
127.0.0.1 ads.freshmeat.net
127.0.0.1 ads.guardianunlimited.co.uk
127.0.0.1 ads.i33.com
127.0.0.1 ads.ign.com
127.0.0.1 ads.imagine-inc.com
127.0.0.1 ads.imdb.com
127.0.0.1 ads.infospace.com
127.0.0.1 ads.iqweb.de
127.0.0.1 ads.jwtt3.com
127.0.0.1 ads.lycos.com
127.0.0.1 ads.mirrormedia.co.uk
127.0.0.1 ads.msn.com
127.0.0.1 ads.narrowline.com
127.0.0.1 ads.newcitynet.com
127.0.0.1 ads.newsint.co.uk
127.0.0.1 ads.ntadvice.com
127.0.0.1 ads.realcities.com
127.0.0.1 ads.realmedia.com
127.0.0.1 ads.salonmagazine.com
127.0.0.1 ads.smartclicks.com
127.0.0.1 ads.switchboard.com
127.0.0.1 ads.tripod.com
127.0.0.1 ads.usatoday.com
127.0.0.1 ads.washingtonpost.com
127.0.0.1 ads.weather.com
127.0.0.1 ads.web.aol.com
127.0.0.1 ads.web.de
127.0.0.1 ads.web21.com
127.0.0.1 ads.x10.com
127.0.0.1 ads2.gamecity.net
127.0.0.1 adserv.newcentury.net
127.0.0.1 adservant.mediapoint.de
127.0.0.1 adserver-espnet.sportszone.com
127.0.0.1 adserver.affiliation.com
127.0.0.1 adserver.bluewin.ch
127.0.0.1 adserver.findurl.com
127.0.0.1 adserver2.bluewin.ch
127.0.0.1 advert.heise.de
127.0.0.1 adwisdom.com
127.0.0.1 annonce.insite.dk
127.0.0.1 badservant.guj.de
127.0.0.1 banner-net.com
127.0.0.1 banner.arttoday.com
127.0.0.1 banner.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 banners.internetextra.com
127.0.0.1 banners.nextcard.com
127.0.0.1 bannersolutions.com
127.0.0.1 bannerswap.com
127.0.0.1 bannervip.webjump.com
127.0.0.1 bizad.nikkeibp.co.jp
127.0.0.1 cash-for-clicks.de
127.0.0.1 click..wisewire.com
127.0.0.1 customad.cnn.com
127.0.0.1 dino.mainz.ibm.de
127.0.0.1 ds.austriaonline.at
127.0.0.1 emap.admedia.net
127.0.0.1 eurosponsor.de
127.0.0.1 fastcounter.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 flycast.com
127.0.0.1 ganges.imagine-inc.com
127.0.0.1 globaltrack.com
127.0.0.1 globaltrak.net
127.0.0.1 hitbox.com
127.0.0.1 hurra.de
127.0.0.1 hyperbanner.net
127.0.0.1 image.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 images.nytimes.com
127.0.0.1 imageserv.adtech.de
127.0.0.1 img.web.de
127.0.0.1 leader.linkexchange.com
127.0.0.1 link4ads.com
127.0.0.1 link4link.com
127.0.0.1 m.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 media.priceline.com
127.0.0.1 mediaplex.com
127.0.0.1 members.sexroulette.com
127.0.0.1 messenger.netscape.com
127.0.0.1 newads.cmpnet.com
127.0.0.1 ngadcenter.net
127.0.0.1 nrsite.com
127.0.0.1 nt..imagine-inc.com
127.0.0.1 offers.egroups.com
127.0.0.1 pagecount.com
127.0.0.1 preferences.com
127.0.0.1 promo.ads.softbank.net
127.0.0.1 pub.nomade.fr
127.0.0.1 revenue.infi.net
127.0.0.1 spinbox1.filez.com
127.0.0.1 swiftad.com
127.0.0.1 tcsads.tcs.co.at
127.0.0.1 tm.intervu.net
127.0.0.1 ultra.multimania.com
127.0.0.1 ultra1.socomm.net
127.0.0.1 uproar.com
127.0.0.1 valueclick.com st.valueclick.com
127.0.0.1 victory.cnn.com
127.0.0.1 videoserver.kpix.com
127.0.0.1 webcounter.goweb.de
127.0.0.1 www.adclub.net
127.0.0.1 www.ads.warnerbros.com
127.0.0.1 www.clickagents.com
127.0.0.1 www.clickthrough.ca
127.0.0.1 www.omdispatch.co.uk
127.0.0.1 www.sponsorpool.net
127.0.0.1 www.ugo.net
127.0.0.1 www.webpeep.com
127.0.0.1 xb.xoom.com

What I did

As I run my own (private, natch) name server, I put myself as "owner" of the x10.com domain in it, and had ads.x10.com resolve to a non-existant address. I've done much the same with doubleclick.com and other sites that have regularly pissed me off.

The result of this isn't that the windows don't continue to pop up, they do. But as they appear under the browser, it's no great deal. Most importantly, the ads don't suck dry my limited bandwidth (across a modem link) so I can browse at a reasonable pace.

For those who need to know, this is what I did (BIND4, as I'm using OpenBSD as my firewall/NAT-based proxy):

I added the line:

primary x10.com x10.com

to my named.boot file. Then created a x10.com file in my namedb directory, reading something like this:

@ IN SOA x10.com. nic.pillory.peh.link. (
19971003
28800
7200
3600000
86400 )
NS pillory.peh.link.
ads A 10.255.0.0
Actually, any half competent DNS admin should be able to do something similar with their setup.

This has benefits over putting the entries in your /etc/hosts in two ways: to begin with, everything under x10.com is blocked, so if x10.com start putting out stuff as ads2.x10.com, the block will still take effect. Secondly, the file applies to every machine on your network. If you have an Intranet at home like I do, that's useful.

Ultimately, if companies want money for their content, they'd be better off asking for it from me than bombarding me with ads. I fully intend to stop visiting certain sites, however much it pains me, until they start providing me with a way to turn off intrusive, bandwidth sucking, unstable browser crashing (y'hear me Netscape? ;-) advertising, whether it be via a subscription or some other means.

And yep, I put my money where my mouth is. I've put in my two year sub to Salon with donation. There's stuff out there I'm willing to pay for. I want to read the site, not get too pissed at it and impatient I end up surfing somewhere else...
--

X10 Alternatives

I actually like buying X10 stuff, home automation is fun. What others companies sell this stuff on the web at reasonable prices? I'd love to take my business elsewhere and some recommendations would be great.

Konqueror's great; iCab somewhat more complete

Of all the Web browsers I've seen, the experimental Macintosh browser iCab [www.icab.de] seems to have the most features for restricting pop-ups and other abusive JavaScript[? [everything2.com]]. iCab permits one to enable or disable several different JavaScript/ECMAscript functions (as well as other "features") on a per-site basis. It also offers excellent image filtering -- to the point that I don't feel the need to use my Junkbuster [junkbuster.com] proxy when I'm using iCab.

Sadly, the iCab folks have said they're not interested in porting to GNU/Linux. Among the GNU/Linux browsers, my favorite by far is Konqueror. Like iCab on the Macintosh, Konq is small, fast, and customizable. However, it still lags a bit behind in the way of filtering. Site-specific, function-specific JavaScript filtering would be an excellent addition to what's already easily the best browser in the Free world.

Re:X10 opt out doesn't work

Your question is at the crux of the advertising business. What marketers have learned is that recognition is everything. If you walk up to a grocery store shelf and recognize one brand name out of four offering a comparable product, you are far more likely to buy the one you recognize. There are good reasons for this (i.e. knowing Sony equipment is reliable), and marketers simply exploit it. No matter how annoyed people get at ads, few will say "oh, I hate those damn ads, I'm going to buy this product from a company I've never heard of instead." Companies will go to great lengths to get their name in your brain, and for good reason.

shut it off for 3000 days

click here [x10.com] to shut off the pop up until Tue Sep 22 12:38:09 2009, and it even redirects you to a friendly page instead of more x10 crap. By 2009 I think they should be sufficiently out of business. ;)

Heh, actually with the trend of the market today, I probably could've set it for 60 and I would've been fine.

From X10's site...

In the last year many different sizes and styles of ads have been used to try to add more value to the advertiser. X10.com is simply using a new form of advertising. Please try to understand that this type of advertising is what keeps the Internet enjoyable as it pays for operational costs behind the sites you enjoy visiting for free.

Oh that's funny... The Internet has always been enjoyable to me. Long before people started advertising on the web.

These people are delusional. Do they really think they are keeping the Internet enjoyable by plastering it with pop-ups and banner ads?

Here's a parody of the X10 popups

Right here [modernhumorist.com]

Re:Java and Javascript

Here is the solution: Turn them off.

OK, so does anyone make a browser with a simple button that turns Javascript on and off? And another that turns Java on and off? And yet another that turns ActiveX on and off? MSIE can't turn them on and off individually, and they make it very hard to do that. Netscape 3 allowed us to turn them on and off window by window, but now (Netscape 4 and above) all instances of Netscape share the same process, so turn Javascript on in one window and you've turned it on in all of them (also, you crash one and all the others crash too, but that's another gripe). And even then you have to drill down through the menus and dialog boxes to do it.

Why won't at least one browser let the users decide how they want the browser to behave? Why do they all have this arrogant attitude that they know what's best for us? Pick a browser: for every "feature" they cite as an example of why their browser is best, I can cite five reasons why their browser is crap*. They all suck**.

* Slight exaggeration for dramatic effect.
** Severe understatement to avoid offending minors.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned this.

Most fascinating I think is the comparison between these ads and gangland street violence: "They?'re like drive-by shootings," said Kipp Cheng, interactive news editor at Adweek. "Consumers will not put up with that"

Am I the only one who thinks this is ridiculous? I see one thing in common between drive by shootings and pop ups ads, that they are unexpected and unpleasent. But having a little shiny thing advertising a visa and having a bullet cripple or kill you are very, very different things, both in scale and in intention.

If I was going to compare pop up ads to anything that is annoyingly found in everyday life, it would probably be dogshit or those damn sugar ants...

Re:My /etc/hosts

I wonder how much time he spent going through this script to remove the servers for porn adds, before posting to slashdot?;>

Re:Many ways to block ads

Unless you're running WinNT/2k/XP, in which case the file is:

%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts

%systemRoot% is C:\WINNT by default.

Many ways, none perfect

I've been mucking about with ad blocking for a while. Some problems:

• Flash ads - haven't found anything that reliably removes the big flash ads from Excite or ZDNet or such.
  
• Popups - sure, I can get rid of most of 'em, but there are a lot of sites now with little pop-up "informational" boxes that break once I've filtered them out.
  
• Clever site programmers - some sites are actually splitting their javascript into multiple strings, concatenating them somehow at the browser, then "eval"ing them. Hard to catch those, as they've been stealthed past any keyword filter
  

I've tried Junkbusters, WebWasher (nicest interface, but it keeps forcing automatic browser config. and that breaks FTP for me), and Proximitron. Right now, I'm using WebWasher chained through Guidescope (follow-up to Junkbusters).

The big problem is that there are a lot of sites with valid (though usually surperfluous) uses for both flash and popups. If I turn them off globally, I lose some functionality. People talk about browsers (konquerer, IE 6, whatever -- I don't remember 'cause none of them are what I use) that allow, for example, popups only in response to a user action. That's great. Wonderful. Can somebody please roll that into webwasher so I can use it with ANY browser?

I guess what it comes down to is every time I try to block stuff, the advertisers either get more clever, or I end up cursing my annoyance with ads whenever I have to temporarily disable the proxy to use a feature I actually want.

*sigh*

Re:Mozilla 0.9.2 Blocks Popups

Yup, you can allow only certain sites to pop up ads too. Very neat.

I also love right clicking on pictures and doing "Block Images from this Server." This feature was broken in 0.9 and 0.9.1 I think, but works again in 0.9.2. I've got a big list of servers built up, and many new pages won't have banner ads. Banner ads are far less annoying, but its nice to turn them off when you don't have much bandwidth.

Re:Java and Javascript

Konqueror allows you to not only turn Java and Javascript on and off (individually), but you can set it up the behavior on a site-by-site basis, if that's what you want to do. You can also explicately turn off just the popup boxes and leave the rest of Java alone.

Re:X10 opt out doesn't work

I remember there being lots of porn on Gopher & Archie back in 93 during college :)

Re:Mozilla does not allow on site by site basis.

With some manual tweaking, you can disable popup ads for specific sites. (I assume the converse would work, too)

For instance, my user.js looks something like this:

user_pref("capability.policy.strict.sites", "http://ads.x10.com http://popup.msn.com");
user_pref("capability.policy.strict.Window.open", "noAccess");

Despite what the release notes say, user.js seems to be a better location for custom settings, because configuration changes made through the UI will often cause the entire prefs.js file to be overwritten.

See the Configurable Security Policies document [mozilla.org] at Mozilla.org for more info.

Of course, it would be nicer to disable ad sites on the fly, as they are encountered. If I knew a bit more about how Mozilla worked, I could probably do it myself, but I'm lazy, and Mozilla documentation is still a bit scattered. For all I know, it might be possible to do this sort of thing now with Galeon, but I haven't tried the latest release.

-jacob

Re:More than 30 days hack?

The problem with the x10 opt-out is that the window still opens. It just closes itself right after loading for a sec. In windows, I didn't even notice this. My mac at work, however, doesn't do pop-under ads properly (they don't do the under part, but they still pop just fine...) and I usually close them in annoyance before the script checks the cookie and gets rid of it for me.

___

This is just another arms race.

First the surfer strikes back with ad-blocking and simple browser configurations. Then the advertisers strike back with Java code that seeks out your ad-blocking software, disables it, then resets your browsers configurations. Surfers will then up the ante by using firewalls and java filters that spot the ad-code, but wait: the advertisers unleash their next generation of ads.

You innocently click on a site and laugh as you see your firewall happily report the Java counter-counter-measure has been stopped, but then you notice something's wrong with your firewall. The advertiser's website detected your counter-counter-measure and has responded with its own counter-counter-counter-measure. It procedes to hack your firewall, deletes your ad-busting software and changes your browser's executable so that you can only surf the web by going through the advertiser's site.

This goes on until surfers are using high-powered automatic assault rifles with teflon-jacketed "cop-killer" bullets to fend off the full marketing assault team busting down your door wearing flak-jackets and using Waco-style tactics screaming, "It's the world's tiniest camera! You must buy it!" Damn those conservatives on the Supreme Court for allowing marketers these liberties under First Amendment protection! But at least they allowed you to use your Second Amendment rights to defend yourself.

A hundred years later, civilization is in ruin. After the nuclear assault launched simultaneously by the Internet Advertising Bureau and the EFF, the world is reduced to rubble. In anger, everyone destroys their modems and Ethernet cards and a Great Burning goes up to punish those who brought the world to this. But somewhere, in a Utah monastary, monks work feverishly copying the last technological works of the 20th century: C++ User's Guide by Bjarne Stroustroupm, and Introduction to Berkley Sockets Programming. Will humanity be doomed to repeat this endless cycle of aggressive marketing?

Re:More than 30 days hack?

no, x10.com doesnt care about the time its disabled. if you can't tell from the look/feel of the web site, it's all about selling, selling, selling. the reasing is that the people who will block the ad aren't going to buy a camera, so why care about how long it's blocked for? there are more than enough click-throughs on that ad to make it worth it.

the web / marketing dept there at x10 is not terribly advanced, and cookies are 'oooh, krazy technology' - they're using front page, and have a special person set up to fix formatting when they can't figure it out through the WYSIWYG interface. ick.

Re:More than 30 days hack?

> I guess the only problem is that X10 actually has to honor their own cookies. If they start noticing a bunch of cookies that have values greater than 30 days then they might just consider it invalid or issue another cookie and everyone will have to put up with those "pop-under" adds again. Then again, maybe they will get smart and just get rid of the pop-under ad alltogether... or maybe not...

This comment -- and the fact that other companies are going to start using the same technique -- is why I reject opt-out "cookie" solutions altogether.

The popup/under/banner/whatever ad-generating code is adversary code.

If you're going to jump through hoops to avoid these ads, might I point out that jumping through hoops to trust your adversary is a poor strategy. If you're going to jump through hoops, jump through hoops that will eliminate his ability to [ab]use your resources.

Option 1: Hack code to place a button on your menu bar (Mozilla, sorry about you IE users) that will toggle ALL Javashit on/off. You're usually only surfing one web site at a time, right? Click to turn it all on (your bank, your broker), click to turn it all off (X10, pr0n-hunting). I do this manually through the 2-3 menu-subtrees in Nutscrape 4, and I've found that I never miss Javashit, although it has the side effect of greatly reducing my tolerance for idiot webmasters that use Javashit buttons where a simple HREF would do. Thankfully, I don't go to many such sites on a regular basis.

Option 2: Find the location of the pop-under providers -- usually ad-servers like Doublefuck. Kill 'em in your HOSTS file on 'doze.

Option 3: Use a local proxy like Junkbuster or Proxomitron.

Bottom line: From a strategic perspective, it's stupid to use countermeasures that rely on either the integrity or negligence of your adversary, especially given the availability of other countermeasures that are not only more effective to begin with, but are (relatively speaking) immune from any action your adversary may take in the future.

The enemy can't run code on your box if you don't allow him to. And the enemy can't even deliver the damn payload (be it Javashit code, huge-azz Flash and .GIF banners, or Doublefuck tracking cookies) if you've blocked his ass at the firewall or proxy.

Blocking pop-ups with mozilla 0.9.2

While you're not running mozilla, edit your prefs.js to say:

user_pref("capability.policy.default.Window.open", "noAccess");

Then if you want to allow certain sites to open new windows, also add the lines:

user_pref("capability.policy.allowpopups.sites", "http://www.foo.com http://www.baz.org");
user_pref("capability.policy.allowpopups.Window.op en", "sameOrigin");

Mozilla's Configurable Security Policies [mozilla.org] document explains how you can create groups of sites with variable access to create new windows, use javascript alerts, etc.

--

Re:Konqueror's great; iCab somewhat more complete

Mozilla lets you deny access to specific javascript functions on a per-site (or per-group-of-sites) basis, but currently you have to edit your preferences file manually. See the documentation on mozilla.org [mozilla.org] for instructions on how to set up your security preferences.

Re:X10 Alternatives

smarthome.com [smarthome.com], and gadgethome.com [gadgethome.com] are the best for home automation. for cameras, go to supercircuits.com [superciruits.com].

Re:More than 30 days hack?

Just use junkbuster to allow it to send cookies back but not accept any more cookies from them. You are using Junkbuster aren't you?

Re:Devil's Advocate...

What if I mute my radio when Howard Stern re-runs his "personal" product endorsements?
What if I write in the margins of my textbook?
What if I cover the ads in the newspaper with my hands or a black marker?
What if I skip the commercials when watching a recorded TV show/movie?
...What if remove the ads from a webpage?

You're not a very good devil's advocate if you can't see that the end-user has the right to alter whatever he wants in his content, for his own fair-use.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is a third party, and should not alter someone elses content for you BY DEFAULT, but they still could and should enable people to do it themselves if they want.

Re:X10 opt out doesn't work

I would love to go back to the Web the way it was in 1993 - 94. No Porn. No Ads. No Bullshit. No Morons. No Commercialism. Just Net.

All Male, All Students, All White. Nerdvana at last!

If an exclusionary 'Net is what you want, go live in a cave.

Web-based advertising that nobody would mind?

I have to wonder.

First, banner ads - bad. OK, maybe. But they're okay by me. Look at the top of the screen, for crying out loud! (Those not using virgin, image enabled browsers need not reply.)

Next, Java Popups. Okay, now you're starting to get on my nerves.

Next, in-browser java windows. These are also acceptable, to me.

Next, Java popups of death (Hereafter referred to as JPOD's.). These bother me to no end, ya know, when i go do l33t stuff like w4ar3z hunting, or pr0n surfing. (Fer god sakes, newsgroups people. Most of them *are* ads, but they're free and you get to see what you're looking for.)

Next, pop-unders. Not nearly as bothersome as some of the others. I really don't mind.

Heres the reason i don't mind:

In a capitalist society, you need money. therefore, these websites - need money. Without money these websites may go away. Some of these websites have insufficent revenue stream to provide services on the web without some form of advertising.

My question:

What form of advertising would you people, as slashdot dro..err users accept? Banner ads irk some of you. Bigger banner ads piss off the rest of you to no end. How would you suggest non-retail companies get revenue off the web? Slavery is illegal (Well, usually.. try explaining that to my boss). Im sure none of you would work for free, but some of you would love to work for, say, slashdot. Somehow, I don't think hemos could get by showing leg on 3rd avenue and bringing Taco's cut back to him both.

I agree that having a chip implanted in your arm that flashes up 10 second ads in your brain every few minutes, or gives you one lucid dream a night about Tammy the Tampax superhero with leaky the wonder-pad might be a little much, but i don't quite think we're there yet.

(On a side note, personally, i would rather see ads targeted towards me than ones not. I'd rather see a ad advertising TLC's special on ramses the great than a condom advertisement about ramses.)

Just my $0.000000002

Slashdot something useful. [thehungersite.com]
Management is not a tunable parameter.

Online Ads versus Broadcast Ads

I have no problem with advertising as long as it is not intrusive. I understand advertising is vital for some internet companies, as it is for television and radio broadcasting.

However, television and radio broadcasts are passive media, and the internet is an interactive medium. You can change the channel or turn up the volume, but other than that, TV and radio require no input from you. When you see an ad, it simply appears, does its thing, and goes away.

When I come across an ad on the internet, very different things happen:

1) What I was doing is interrupted. I searched, I clicked, and now this ad has intruded into whatever action I was performing. I was not expecting an ad.

2) Resources are used. I have to request your ad (time), download your ad (bandwidth), store your ad in my cache (storage). TV inflicts no such overhead.

3) I am forced to act. Your ad popped up, and now I have to close it. I have to stop what I was doing to get rid of your ad.

You watch TV, but you use a computer. Ads can appear anywhere on your screen, be any size, be any shape, they may play sound, play video, or worse. A TV ad is always the same dimensions and you know what to expect.

Re:More than 30 days hack?

Actually, Mozilla has some great features to deal with pop-up windows. This page [mozilla.org] goes over quite a few things that you can mess with that aren't available via the standard options dialog. Most notable is buried in the Other Useful Preferences section which discusses the user.js file. Within there are some great features to control when and what javascript is available to a page.. I personally love this feature.

This will help greatly with those websites that "require" that you have javascript enabled in order to view them, while also killing any javascript that you don't want to function..

Enjoy, and have fun.. ;)

-Greg

Proof that IE does not exist for OUR benefit.

Think: If the folks who brought you Internet Explorer were truly committed to the needs of the folks who actually RUN Internet Explorer, there would already today be many user friendly features in the browser including:

• Javascript could be enabled/disabled site by site.
• Java could be enabled/disabled site by site.
• Cookies could be enabled/disabled site by site.
• Friendly 'wizards' would explain the pros and cons of each setting and guide you through the configuration. The user could set things up however they wanted so that their browsing experience could be as full featured or lean and mean as they desired.

This is proof, folks, that the browser wasn't written for our benefit at all. It's written for the benefit of 'content producers', if anybody.

What's worse is that these features are very apparent and SO DAMN EASY TO IMPLEMENT. We should have seem them in IE years ago. Chances are, we never will. How can we expect the company who brought us 'Smart Tags' to look after us? Forget it.

Good that we have some alternatives to IE. Too bad they aren't readily apparent to the ignorant masses. Solving the problem for a few geeks does not solve the problem for the rest of us. Who knows, maybe someday ...

Re:Well...

Or use WebWasher [webwasher.com], from Siemens no less. Runs on Linux and Windows and is free as in beer. I have never seen an X10 ad, or a Slashdot banner ad for that matter. You don't need to know regexps to use it.

--

Re:Proof that IE does not exist for OUR benefit.

I'm not a huge IE fan, but you can do this - turn off all scripting for the Internet zone, and add teh sites that you want to allow scripting for to the 'trusted sites' list. Or, you could add nasty sites to the restricted sites' list...