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Greenspun On ArsDigita

Posted by timothy on Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:03 PM
from the informative-words dept.
Eponymous, Showered writes: "Following up on the depressing tale of ArsDigita and its takeover by nursery school miscreants, Philip Greenspun gives his take on the recent turn of events recently covered on Slashdot. He even provides a nice aD history in a nutshell for those of us who were vacationing on Uranus for the last several years."
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  • Greenspun is being very disingeneous by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:19PM
  • Re:Greenspun is being very disingeneous by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @07:13AM
  • Re:Yesterday's Globe Article by Holgate (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @07:12AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by Ian Bicking (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @07:05AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by Ian Bicking (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:04PM
  • Re:Venture capitalists to avoid... by jzitt (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:17AM
  • Re:Venture capitalists to avoid... by sql*kitten (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:33PM
  • Re:Venture capitalists to avoid... by sql*kitten (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:06AM
  • Market Conditions by Agave (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @03:08AM
  • Re:Great Response by PCM2 (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @08:42PM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by rho (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @12:52PM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by rho (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:21AM
  • URL by fireproof (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:03AM
  • Cynicism by Lazy Jones (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @11:12AM
  • Re:Greenspun is being very disingen[u]ous by KyleCordes (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @07:15PM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by daviddennis (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @01:17PM
  • Re:Greenspun is a Philanthropist by Coplan (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @03:32AM
  • Re:VC, PhilG, and Why I Hate You All. by peterb (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:48AM
  • by peterb (13831) on Wednesday April 25 2001, @07:18AM (#267037) Homepage Journal
    I am about to rant. If you are in my way, please step the fuck down.

    I have read with interest the fawning adulation and tea-and-biscuit sympathy the slashdot community has for PhilG on this issue. Oh, wait, did I say "interest"? I meant "disgust." What the fuck is wrong with you people? I'd suggest that your mothers dropped you on your heads as children, but it looks more like she thwacked you with a sledgehammer. Twice.

    There are two assertions that people seem to be making:

    • Look, isn't it terrible how the evil venture capitalists gave Ars Digita lots of money and then took control of the company?
    • If only PhilG had been left in charge, Ars Digita would have been as large as Microsoft, except it would have given us all free ice cream. And Aeron chairs.
    Both of these statements are pathetically false.

    First off, I don't know PhilG personally. Maybe he's a nice guy. Maybe he spends all his spare time saving kittens and helping nuns cross the street. Maybe he is god's gift to the Internet, computer science, photography, and women. But none of that has anything to do with whether he has been wronged here. Fundamentally, Philip signed a contract. For him to now claim that it is unfair for the VCs to exercise the rights Philip gave them when he signed the contract is irritating at best and utterly disingenuous and deceptive at worst.

    Phil had a very easy way to keep control of aD: don't take the fucking money. He took the money. He made his bed. Now he sleeps in it.

    Furthermore, there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about why companies seek venture capital financing. Here's a hint: it ain't just for the money. Finding money, if you have a good idea and aren't a schmuck, isn't all that hard. Running a successful business: now that's hard -- a lot harder that building a few tools used to create web sites. Founders of companies (or at least, smart founders of companies) seek VC not just because of the money but to gain access to a pool of talented people that know how to do something they don't: grow a small company into a larger one.

    That Philip doesn't seem to understand this is sad.

    I suspect the people who will win out, in the long term, are the people working at Ars Digita, who now have the benefit of professional management without the interference of an amateur (why do I say amateur? If you sign a contract for millions of dollars that you don't seem to have read, you're an amateur) that, from what I've heard, wasn't able to effectively manage any group larger than about 5 people.

    I wish Ars Digita success, I wish Philip well, too. I hope all of you that think that the VCs are somehow wrong for trying to do their job are injured in fiery auto accidents with large-breasted German women.

    Good day.

  • Why Not ArsDigita2? by weston (Score:2) Thursday April 26 2001, @07:48AM
  • Yes, it can. by mindstrm (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @01:45AM
  • Venture capitalists to avoid... by Azog (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @10:21PM
  • You should read up on scaleable web apps! by gruntvald (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @11:41AM
  • Great Response by keepper (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:58PM
  • Re:Great Response by keepper (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @07:04PM
  • I agree by SuperKendall (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @05:53AM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by Polo (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @10:59AM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by Polo (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:16PM
  • Re:Software my ass by jfunk (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @12:43PM
  • Greenspun by Mr. Theorem (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @09:54PM
  • Re:The challenges of 1000% growth by look (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @11:41AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by Malcontent (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @10:36PM
  • Re:Software my ass by Malcontent (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @07:34PM
  • Re:Bad Analogy by pq (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @01:51PM
  • Bad Analogy by pq (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:39AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by roca (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:11PM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by Dwonis (Score:2) Friday April 27 2001, @02:12PM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by Dwonis (Score:2) Friday April 27 2001, @02:12PM
  • Re:Greenspun is being very disingen[u]ous by jbdelong (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @05:27AM
  • Re:Philip Greenspun by jbdelong (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @05:40AM
  • thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by pgreenspun (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:27AM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by pgreenspun (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @09:33AM
  • Re:Venture capitalists to avoid... by nlh (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @11:27AM
  • Re:realistically speaking by FattMattP (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @08:20PM
  • PreSchoolers by beta21 (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @09:55PM
  • Re:Venture capitalists to avoid... by Phloyd (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:17AM
  • so much for the wisdom of engineers by gargle (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:52AM
  • Re:Who is ArsDigita ? by dingbat_hp (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:39AM
  • Re:realistically speaking by dingbat_hp (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:46AM
  • Git, Geek, what's the difference ? by dingbat_hp (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:17AM
  • Bell labs by dingbat_hp (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:22AM
  • Who is ArsDigita ? by dingbat_hp (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @01:24AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by BradleyUffner (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @02:31AM
  • Re:realistically speaking by intmainvoid (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:03AM
  • Whatta guy! by The_Messenger (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @07:01PM
  • Re:Whatta guy! by The_Messenger (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @12:30AM
  • Re:East Coast money...mentality? by ballestra (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:25AM
  • Re:First quarter (Score:5)

    by BinxBolling (121740) on Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:59PM (#267076)
    Okay, you take a successful company with 80 employees. You bring in VC money, you bring in a change in CEO, and with that, a change in direction. The first quarter, instead of the great growth you've been having, you start to slump. Then the next quarter after that you're even lower. I think at that point he should have stepped in a said "Hey listen, you guys might be great in your own respective fields, but you don't know what you're doing in this one. Step away from the console...."

    Except that it's not at all clear that the new management team doesn't know what they're doing. It's absurd to talk about the declines in AD's profitability without considering it in the context of what the industry as a whole is seeing. Plenty of companies are seeing losses and having to lay people off. Plenty are just folding up and dying completely.

    Look at what's been happening to software service companies recently and tell me honestly that the management team that replaced Philip is solely responsible for the decline in AD's fortunes. You can't. Despite the the big-name clients Philip likes to cite, a hell of a lot of AD's revenues were coming from little dot coms flush with VC cash of their own. Now that the gold rush has died down, it's no surprise they are suffering -- just like nearly every other software company that depends significantly on service revenue, and many that don't.

    Giving Philip all the credit for past profits and the current management all the blame for present losses requires that you willfully blind yourself to changes in market conditions.

  • First quarter by mszeto (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:34PM
  • So this is why photo.net has been slashdotted... by aquarian (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @07:08PM
  • The challenges of 1000% growth by tony clifton (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @05:10AM
  • My guess is it would have been rough by JiveDonut (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @03:51AM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by bogenc (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @12:25PM
  • Re:realistically speaking by Tassach (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:28AM
  • Re:First quarter by coolgeek (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @10:10PM
  • Re:First quarter by digitalcowboy (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:52AM
  • Re:thank you for slashdotting my server :-( by Laplace (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:38AM
  • Re:obscurity of Lisp and functional languages by vsync64 (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @10:01AM
  • Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming by vsync64 (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @09:59PM
  • Re:Philip Greenspun by weav (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @11:40AM
  • Re:VC, PhilG, and Why I Hate You All. by Blackheart2 (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:11AM
  • VCs weren't shareholders by streetlawyer (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @09:43PM
  • re: scient by denshi (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @09:57AM
  • Yesterday's Globe Article by hlva (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:14AM
  • A Cautionary Tale by Caraig (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:11AM
  • Re:Bad Analogy by nazgul@somewhere.com (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:39AM
  • There's more than a little naivete here by nazgul@somewhere.com (Score:2) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:05AM
  • by LionKimbro (200000) on Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:52PM (#267096) Homepage

    I owe Philip Greenspun a lot. Philip Greenspun is personally responsible for changing how I looked at technology, programming, as well as changing how I looked at Life.

    My students owe Philip Greenspun a lot as well; If it weren't for his article on software professionalism [arsdigita.com], I don't know that I would be teaching free programming classes to the public. [taoriver.net]

    It's terrible and saddening to see ArsDigita becoming just another silly company.

    On the upside ("Long Live the King"), I look forward to seeing where he decides to turn his life next. Maybe this is actually a turn for the better. Maybe he'll be a little more humble, not just in thought and deed, but also speech. Maybe he'll write about his trip to India. Maybe he'll become a spokesperson for Nikon. Maybe he'll just relax, read, and mull over some books.

    Regardless, I feel very priveledged to have been able to read what he has written, and to have heard him lecture, and look forward to his new life.

  • Re:Git, Geek, what's the difference ? by milo_Gwalthny (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:37AM
  • VCs (Score:5)

    by milo_Gwalthny (203233) on Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:35AM (#267098)
    Good venture capitalists are predictable. That's why this story may sound familiar: arrogant genius takes on partners, agrees to terms he thinks are innocuous because they only kick in when really bad things are happening, finds he is reluctant to share control, struggle ensues, he gets booted.

    Here are a few things you should expect from venture capitalists:
    - they are not tech experts. They may be pretty conversant, but what they do is demanding in its own right, so they don't have time to keep up. The longer they have been VCs, the further away from the nitty-gritty they will be;
    - they are in it to make money. If asked, a good VC will sit you down and bluntly explain that they are in it to make money. If you want someone whose first priority is to create something extraordinary and new, get money from Intel or Cisco or somebody who is investing in R&D, not cash return;
    - VCs expect somewhere around a 35% annual rate of return on all their money invested. If 2 out of 10 companies fulfill their growth plans, 3 out of 10 go sideways, and 5 out of 10 go bust, but the VC doesn't know which is which beforehand, then they have to *plan* for each of their investments to have a 84% growth in value per year, sustained for the average investment holding period of 5 years, or a 20x growth in value. These growth needs mean VC-backed companies have to swing for the fences - slow, measured growth won't get the VCs the returns they need;
    - VCs are paranoid about control for good reason. I was told by a lawyer that every clause in a contract is a result of someone at some time getting screwed;
    - VCs do not *want* to run the company. They are usually involved with up to 10 companies at a time and looking for more, as well as being involved in running their own firm. They do not have time to run the investee. They want to oversee. The only time they try and replace management is when they think things are drastically off-plan, or with the buy-in of management.

    There are alternatives to venture funding. Strategic investors, as mentioned above, are one of them. Bank financing of receivables is another (especially if the company has top-notch clients and is profitable, as aD was.) Do not get venture funding unless you believe you can (and want to) put all your chips on the table and roll the dice. Even if the odds are heavily in your favor, you can still lose it all.

    If you are a technologist or visionary type, find a person who believes in your vision and who you trust but knows the ins and outs of finance, law and business, and hire them. You may scoff at the MBAs, but if this happens to you, you'll have wished you had one on your side. (And, yes, MBAs that know and love technology exist, they are just hard to find.)

  • He did do that. by ShaunC (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @08:29PM
  • obscurity of Lisp and functional languages by brlewis (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:50AM
  • Re:realistically speaking by Eminence (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:31PM
  • Re:Philip Greenspun by Corporate Gadfly (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @05:03AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by Alatar (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:44PM
  • Re:VC, PhilG, and Why I Hate You All. by v(*_*)vvvv (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @09:53AM
  • Re:VCs weren't shareholders by jockm (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @04:20AM
  • Re:Summary by raju1kabir (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:34PM
  • Vacationing Where?!?!? by CrazyLegs (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @05:48AM
  • The slave driver couldn't keep up... by somethingwicked (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:00AM
  • Re:The slave driver couldn't keep up... by somethingwicked (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:51AM
  • Re:Dose of Reality by slaytanic killer (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @02:31AM
  • Re:Venture capitalists to avoid... by slaytanic killer (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @03:47AM
  • realistically speaking by deran9ed (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:37PM
  • Dose of Reality by deran9ed (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @08:50PM
  • Software my ass by deran9ed (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:05PM
  • Arogance by PsychoStork (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @06:49AM
  • Allen Shaheen by Lol the unbeliever (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @02:21AM
  • Re:Git, Geek, what's the difference ? by Lol the unbeliever (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @08:07AM
  • Re:Market Conditions by tb3 (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @03:57AM
  • Greenspun is a Philanthropist by philovivero (Score:2) Tuesday April 24 2001, @09:39PM
  • Re:Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming by oodl (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @11:45PM
  • Re:First quarter by haruharaharu (Score:1) Wednesday April 25 2001, @10:30AM
  • Re:First quarter by EdgeSmash (Score:1) Tuesday April 24 2001, @06:58PM
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