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World's First Lego Autopilot

Posted by CmdrTaco on Wed Mar 14, 2007 08:10 AM
from the because-you-can dept.
Toys
zlite writes "What's the best way to create a UAV for less than $1,000? Use the new Hitechnic gyro sensor for Mindstorms NXT to create a Lego autopilot! This one can turn a R/C plane into a drone, keeping the aircraft level and returning it to the launch area. Add a Bluetooth GPS module and a microcam and you've got a fully autonomous surveillance platform."
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  • But I'll reserve judgement until it actually flies :)

    • illegal in US? Don't tell DHS (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I believe this is illegal in the US. Please don't tell the DHS or they will ban the LEGO mindstorm as a WMD.
    • I'm not sure that I'd call it autopilot. According to the article specifics it controls the rudder servo, but it also mentions something about 'keeping the plane level', so maybe it does other things as well.

      I'd also not say it is a drone. when activated the thing turns the plane 180 degrees from its current heading as measured by a magnetic compass.

      Cool, but there is still a huge amount of work to be done.
  • I used to think that unit testing missle systems would be the best job in the world. Now that I'm older I realize the best job in the world was the one I had when I was a kid where I had a big bucket of Lego bricks and the only limit was my imagination.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Sobrique (543255)
      Autonomous lego drone + home made explosives, and you've just revolutionised terrorism. I mean, who needs letter bombs, when you can just remote drone their house.

    • Re:Best job in the world.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by robably (1044462) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @09:45AM (#18347251) Journal
      Nothing is stopping you playing with Lego now, and the AFOL community (Adult Fans Of Lego) is one of the friendliest communities to be a part of. Visit Lugnet [lugnet.com] to see what's going on, upload your models to Brickshelf [brickshelf.com] to share what you do with everyone else, check if there are any Lego shows in your area, and maybe join a local user group. Have fun.
  • The department of Homeland Security has been notified. Ownership of Lego's have officially been declared a crime to be prosecuted by the Patriot Act. This support of terrorist activities will not go unchallenged! Only the Feds are allowed to spy on the populace, the populace is not allowed to own these types of things.

    In all seriousness now, how long do you think it will be before someone gets arrested for doing something like this. I just listened to the story about crazyskimask.com and getting arres
    • The department of Homeland Security has been notified. Ownership of Lego's have officially been declared a crime to be prosecuted by the Patriot Act. This support of terrorist activities will not go unchallenged! Only the Feds are allowed to spy on the populace, the populace is not allowed to own these types of things.

      It's not just about spying! The evil terrorists might use them to fly bombs into things! Or evil drug dealers might use long-haul UAVs with GPS to smuggle drugs in from South America!

      Think of

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "If only there were some way to stop people inventing things."

        There is. It's called patents.

    • In all seriousness now, how long do you think it will be before someone gets arrested for doing something like this.

      Hopefully not too long. I think this development is actually the best thing to happen for public privacy in a long time.

      Long story short, eventually some hobbists will be very publically caught flying around neighbourhoods spying on peoples homes, movements, bedrooms, young children etc, etc, and there will be a sensationalist media outrage. In response, governments will draft laws that make

      • law enforcement will have to get a warrent for it....

        You have been reading the news right? When dealing with the Patriot Act and the whole terrorism bit...warrents are not exactly required or enforced. Our new laws work great together, Patriot Act makes damn near everything an act of terrorism (see meth dealers being busted on terrorism laws) and then our wonderful government has allowed 90 days of unlimited warrentless wiretapping after a terrorist event. Combine these two to have 24/7/365 warrentless

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by noSignal (997337)
      Well; you jest, but this has already been addressed by the FAA: http://cryptome.org/faa021307.htm [cryptome.org]. Under this policy, I believe that you could be arrested for flying an aircraft like this without explicit authorization from the government. I do aerial photography with rc helicopters for my wife's real-estate company and you wouldn't believe the crap I have to deal with when people see that I have a flying camera in their neighborhood.
      Personally, I'd rather use purpose built avionics in my models than try to

  • Autopilot (Score:5, Funny)

    by Migraineman (632203) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @08:20AM (#18346093)
    Add a Bluetooth GPS module and a microcam and you've got a fully autonomous surveillance platform.

    I think you misspelled "cruise missile."

  • LEGO skynet? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by smellsofbikes (890263) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @08:21AM (#18346115) Journal
    Dude, if the robots that overthrow humanity are made of LEGOs, my head is going to explode trying to decide how I feel about the situation.

    MY LEGO assistant is only smart enough to try and grab rings and feed them into a spotwelder, but even that could be dangerous if the controller (my computer) turns to EEEVILE, as in fru-its of the deviiiiil.
    • Dude, if the robots that overthrow humanity are made of LEGOs, my head is going to explode trying to decide how I feel about the situation.

      Reminds me of something I posted five years ago:

      Re:Twenty Years From Now (Score:5, Funny)
      by Mad Man (166674) on Thursday May 23, @01:32PM (#3573780 [slashdot.org])

      Dialogue ommitted from The Terminator:

      "The Series 200 Terminators were made out of interlocking plastic bricks. We spotted them easily..."

      Hey, why come up with something original when I can go for the cheap laughs and kar

      • The plus side is we can wipe out LEGO skynet or the Series 200 Terminator easily by spraying them with gasoline and watching them dissolve.

        The minus side is we'll've run out of gasoline by that time.

        Ride bikes. You're not just saving the environment: you're helping fight off the LEGO-based destruction of humanity.
  • "Any ideas on how to solve the altitude problem in a Lego-friendly way?"

    I was impressed up until this point - the guy already has GPS onboard, which includes altitude parameters, and he doesn't know about it...?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Sobrique (543255)
      I have a feeling that some GPS recievers are less enthusiastic about reporting altitude than others. I know the one I've got built into my sat nav doesn't seem to care.

      That's not to say that you can't tweak the firmware of the receiver or something, but it may not be _that_ easy.

      Of course, 'buy a gps which lets you do altitude' is also a solution :)

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      GPS Altitude is a rough approximation at best. The system was optimized for lat/lon position on the globe, not up-down. I've stood on the Blue Ridge Parkway and watched the ground soar up and down in a hundred foot range as I looked at my eTrex.

      For this reason, Garmin builds (built?) at least one eTrex unit with a barometer built in for accurate altitude readings.

      100 feet of slop is not good if you're trying to land the plane automatically.

      I'd imagine
      • Just have a servo deploy a parachute when youre above your landing site. Then you can forgive a few hundred feet of accuracy in altitude.
        • Only if you favor errors in the high direction.
          • Well bias your altitude reading. Essentially raise the altitude of what the aircraft understands to be ground level. That way, if you come in at 400 ft +/-300 ft, you should be OK.
      • GPS can be good at altitude measurements, except you need to use the P(Y) code, which is encrypted. You could get away with using carrier phase or differential or RTK but then you start getting into the realm of some quite expensive gear.

        The article just talks about a bluetooth GPS module, so I'll assume something commercial that likely includes WAAS. As he says, it'll be good enough to maintain flight but if he wants to land he'll need something more.
      • The NXT kit has an ultrasonic range-finder in it... what the maximum range of that is, is a different story

  • VaporWarez (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FirmWarez (645119) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @08:24AM (#18346155)
    Hmmm, HiTechnic says gyro "will be available soon" and the Lego blog says "I haven't received the gyro sensor yet, so I've got a light sensor standing in for it in the picture, but the mechanicals are pretty much in place.". Vaporware. Cool idea, but nothing more than a cool idea at this point.

    What will be interesting in all this is the complete stupidity that will follow. I work for an embedded systems contract design house. We tried to get some samples of the single chip gyros, what a royal pain! It seems somebody out there is terrified that "tear-ists" will buy the chips and build evil cruise missiles and such. Why did we try to get the parts? Because one of the guys needed to replace one in a $100 RC helicopter. So for now you can buy the helo, buy the Lego add-on, but forget about getting the gyros themselves unless you can prove you're not sellin' them to the KLF or whatever liberation front dujour. How long before some congressional idiot ("but I repeat myself" - Mark Twain) sees this and decides us lowly regular folks have no use for these devices at all?
    • Perhaps "Lowly regular folks" can get chips with less degrees of accuracy, just like when GPS was first made available to the public? Using these devices in an RC plane/cruise missile is only ONE use. You can do the same thing with on older gyro unit and some fancy DSP programming and whammo you got a "military device" with remote control or semi-autonomous. You can get the DSP chips on the open market or if you know what you are doing you can scavenge one from a cell phone. There are tons of uses for gyro

  • For god's sake, Slashdot.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Post some new news!

    Model helicopters and model thermal soarers both have used this technology for the past 20 years. In the case of thermal soarers, which may launch at over 1k ft, an Out-of Sight (OOS) control system is essential.

    What about that Canadian floating gliders to the edge of space on balloons and then having them find their way back home? http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/ [members.shaw.ca]

    What about that New Zealander making a home built cruise missile? http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/ [interestingprojects.com]

    When I want to

  • Don't do this in Boston (Score:3, Funny)

    by us7892 (655683) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @08:30AM (#18346219)
    add a Bluetooth GPS module and a microcam

    I'd like to see a microcam video of a flight. Fly it over something interesting. If you do it in Boston, over City Hall perhaps, you'll be able to bring the entire city to it's knees, and the Mayor will be demanding $$$ from Lego. A state police helicopter, sharp shooters, the bomb squad...it'll all be on the 6 o'clock news...
  • This sounds pretty expensive to me. The mindstorm is overkill tho, you could simply use a basic PIC controller and a few servos. And I believe one can buy a basic plane for 100 or 200$...
  • I think using the lego gyro is a fantastic idea. Imagination is great. I must admit though that I am a bit confused, maybe it's me, maybe it's the way TFA was written, and I pray it's just a typo otherwise, someone is going to have a nice repair bill as an RC aircraft takes a nosedive through someone's roof.

    This autopilot only controls the rudder, keeping the plane flying level when engaged and returning to the launch area.

    According to WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_controls [wikipedia.org] the rudder c
    • Actually, I see the gyro handling the information for level flight. The GPS would handle info for "steering". Because GPS updates are only once per second.

    • Re:Yaw, Pitch and Roll (Score:4, Interesting)

      by zlite (199781) * on Wednesday March 14 2007, @08:54AM (#18346515)
      Many high-wing R/C planes use the rudder for roll. They're inherently stable, and rudder turns tend to bank because the weight is under the wing.

      • Many high-wing R/C planes use the rudder for roll. They're inherently stable, and rudder turns tend to bank because the weight is under the wing.

        Having weight under the wings makes roll stability easier, but it's the wings dihedral (upward vee bend) that produces the roll effect with yaw.

        A Hawker Harrier (the British 'jump jet') is a high wing with an anhedral - the wings bend down. If you yaw left, it will roll right. In fact, with enough sideslip during a hover, they roll over. They're known to be e

    • According to WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_controls [wikipedia.org] [wikipedia.org] the rudder controls yaw, not pitch or roll. So I am not sure how the rudder keeps the plane flying level. Can anyone help?

      Yep. In most airplanes yaw and roll are somewhat coupled, the degree of coupling depending upon a number of aerodynamic factors. As zlite mentioned in response to your post, having the center of gravity below the wings in a high-wing design causes the airplane to roll a bit in response to yaw. Also, when

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      When you yaw an aircraft you change the relative speed that the left and right wings are traveling through the air. Since the amount of lift produced by an airfoil is a result of (among other things) the speed of the airflow over the airfoil you are making one wing produce more lift than the other wing. In the case where you are using left rudder for example, the right wing will travel faster and produce more lift. The difference in lift between the two wings will cause the aircraft to roll. In our example,

    • According to WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_controls [wikipedia.org] the rudder controls yaw, not pitch or roll. So I am not sure how the rudder keeps the plane flying level. Can anyone help?

      You should be modded up for asking an intelligent question.

      Aircraft that use rudder for roll control do it by having a fair amount of dihedral (upward vee bend) in the wing. When the rudder yaws the aircraft, the outside wing effectively gets a higher angle of attack (bite of the air) and generates more lift, rolling th

  • From what I can see on the Hitechnic page, it isn't a real gyroscope but just a "tilt sensor", which would limit it's capability.
    I'd like to see something working.
    • Sorry, my mistake. I just found something on their page about a a single-axis gyro that's in development. But then, how come this gets a story? An blog entry by a lego enthusiast, about an idea of using a future product to try something cool? I want to see something.
  • No fate but what we make from lego.

  • Article is misleading (Score:5, Informative)

    by Neil Jansen (955182) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @09:33AM (#18347073) Homepage
    He won't be able to do much with a single-axis gyro. Also I didn't see any mention of an accelerometer, or an altitude sensor. He would be much better off (and save some money) by learning how to solder and use real components instead of the overpriced lego stuff. For example, my current RC autopilot setup uses 2x IDG300 dual-axis gyro IC's and an ADXL330 3-axis accelerometer. Also a SiRF III 20-channel GPS module, a pressure sensor for altitude, and a set of Nordic 2.4 GHz wireless tranceivers. Right now I have everything tied into an ARM7 but a Nano or Pico-ITX might be in my future.

    5-axis IMU ($109.95): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php? products_id=741 [sparkfun.com]
    2-axis gyro (use with above to make a 6-axis (double up on one axis) ($69.95): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php? products_id=698 [sparkfun.com]
    Altimeter: ($49.95): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php? products_id=8161 [sparkfun.com]
    GPS receiver, SiRF-III ($55.95): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php? products_id=465 [sparkfun.com]
    And finally, 2.4 GHz 1Mbit transciever to control it ($24.95 each): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php? products_id=152 [sparkfun.com]

    Add a GWS slowstick RC airplane ($35) and miscellaneous electronic pieces for a grand total of $370 or so. Not to troll, but I really don't see why people invest so much in doing things in legos when there's so much real hardware out there to play with.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by bhima (46039)
      Soldering, Wiring, Rudimentary EE skills
      non Wintel or X86 Linux programming / cross compiling
      Command Line only no GUI

      I think I summed that up nicely.... and for the record I found all of the above easier to learn than the modern IDE (Microsoft Visual Studio) and OS interaction.

    • And finally, 2.4 GHz 1Mbit transciever to control it ($24.95 each)

      You use a device with 125ft l-o-s range to control an airplane? You're not flying much, are you?

  • Look out!!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by physicsboy500 (645835) on Wednesday March 14 2007, @09:40AM (#18347185)
    Spies!!! with tiny yellow heads!!!
  • In my day, we crashed our R/C airplanes! And we were grateful!

    -jcr

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