Hello Kitty May Be Key to 3G Survival 172
wa4osh writes "It's scary to think that sophisticated 3G mobile systems may depend for their survival on Hello Kitty (a cutesy Japanese pink cat with whiskers but no mouth) according to the recent Commdesign article "Hello Kitty may be key to 3G success". The article suggests that 3G's main market is downloading ringtones and backgrounds. Reading between the lines, it also suggests that 3G did not find a killer application. For example, what happened to 3G Video phones, or using 3G to send video clips to each other? These are all things that can be done with today's 2.5G technologies - GPRS and 1XRTT. So what's 3G really for? Perhaps Wi-Fi / 802.11 is solving the real need for broadband data mobility." The Wall Street Journal has an article which suggests that cellular companies are turning to Wi-Fi to hedge their bets.
I can see it now.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can see it now.. (Score:5, Informative)
Hello Kitty cellphone/vibrator combo. Hey, it's definitely not out of the question when we're talking about all things Hello Kitty.
Actually, Helly Kitty vibrators [jlist.com] already exist.
GMD
Re:I can see it now.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I can see it now.. (Score:1, Offtopic)
The scariest thing about Hello Kitty... (Score:2)
Hey, it's definitely not out of the question when we're talking about all things Hello Kitty.
You know what terrifies me about Hello Kitty?
Apparently, it's a *big thing* in Japan. No, I've never been to Japan, nor am I a Nipponophile ("Nippophile" sounds racist somehow...). Hell, I don't even like anime. But I hear the stories from friends who've been there.
I wake up in the middle of the night with a scream caught in my throat, with visions of Japanese engineers designing brakes and steering systems for Honda and Toyota cars, doing their back-of-the-envelope sketches and calculations on Hello Kitty stationary. The senior engineers in my nightmares have Hello Kitty sliderules.
Not coincidentally, people often wonder why I drive a 1976 Dodge Ram. I figure, if I'm going to share the road with cars whose balljoints were designed using Hello Kitty pocket calculators, I may as well keep myself wrapped up in some good thick steel.
How about the bow tied on one of the cat's ears? I tried that on my cat, and she had it off in nanoseconds. Hot melt glue was only slightly more effective, but not enough to build a franchise on the concept. A staple gun is the only alternative that I can think of - I'm simply amazed that PETA isn't up in arms about the tacit advocacy of using staple guns to affix bows to fluffy little pussycats.
BTW, Linux is not ready for the desktop [glowingplate.com].
Make the phone look like a Star Trek phazer... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Make the phone look like a Star Trek phazer... (Score:2)
Re:Make the phone look like a Star Trek phazer... (Score:2)
Meanwhile... (Score:1)
3G uses.. (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, what happened to 3G Video phones, or using 3G to send video clips to each other? These are all things that can be done with today's 2.5G technologies - GPRS and 1XRTT.
True they *can* be done with other technologies, but I think that the point is that people just don't need to do this stuff, with *any* technology. It's still just gee-whiz stuff without any real purpose outside of, "check out my new toy, Bob!".
I, for one, don't understand how major companies with gigantic R&D and marketing budgets can proceed to spend billions on infrastructure without doing just a bit of market research first. I think that asking a few thousand people, "Would you use a video phone if it cost this much?" would cost a few grand, and would very quickly tell them what they needed to know. Sounds like these companies didn't even do that much.
how about a decent web browser? (Score:2)
I would like to send MMS audio and video clips, sure, but whose email client can play audio/amr [google.com] yet?
Re:how about a decent web browser? (Score:2)
Re:how about a decent web browser? (Score:2)
How about your voicemail machine?
How about your phone?
My phone is one of my email machines, and since it is a "phone" I would like it to play audio/amr attachments. Not against my will, of course, but through the earphone when I click on them, or the speakerphone if it happens to be on.
Re:3G uses.. (Score:2)
Ah, but why do market research when you can just get Congress to require everybody to buy your new toy instead?
Oh, wait, I'm thinking about HDTV again...
Create demand (Score:2, Insightful)
Or in 1992: "Would you be on the internet if it cost $xx?"
The point is, you need to create demand for such services. A market survey is worth nothing if you ask for something the participants do not know what is.
Re:Create demand (Score:5, Insightful)
These companies asking "would you send pictures/video, etc. via your phone if it cost $xx.xx/month?" isn't a big leap. People know that it could be done. They know what it is. It's just that there honestly isn't any use for it for most people. I know, that I have no idea why I would want this service. If I need to send someone a picture, I turn on the computer, and send via email. It's done. I've never been anywhere where the need to send a picture or a video was so great that I *HAD* to do it right there over my phone, like they're showing in the ads. It's just ridiculous. They're trying to fill a non-existent need for a non-existent market.
Re:Create demand (Score:1)
Take SMS as an example. Back in 1996 I would never have seen the point in sending short messages from a lousy numerical keyboard. (I still think it is a lousy way of communication, but the majority of people disagree with me) Today, SMS is the single largest driving force behind phone-sales (atleast in Scandinavia) in the mass-market. Many hardly use it for voice. Back then SMS was an add-on, today taking pictures is an add-on, tomorrow sending video is the main thing, with phone-capabilities as an add-on.
Just the fact that some don't see the point today, does not waste the billions spent on research/development.
If it's cheap enough people will use it, even if only for their own amusement. As an example of a possible killer app I can mention that some tv-stations open the screens up for people to chat via sms during the night, and the messages scroll the screen. Currently, the price to send one message is in the $1 area. Insane if you ask me, but people still do it and the network makes money. Imagine the the day everyone can send in their own pictures taken with their phone, and have them aired almost instantly. If some are willing to pay a dollar to get a few words on the screen, why shouldn't they pay two dollars to get their picture on the screen?
Re:Create demand (Score:3, Insightful)
I want to check my bank balance with as few keypresses as is secure. I want to beam any phone number to any other phone with a keypress. I want to be able to send RC5 codes so I can control my TV and my Tivo with my phone (why? because I always have my phone clipped to my belt, who knows where that damn remote is?).
I want a completely configurable menu system. I'm convinced that the Sanyo SCP-4700 was designed specificly to force one to waste time online while using the incredibly bad UI.
I want my phone to have a fast wireless connection to my computer and flash memory so I can carry around important files. I want to put my credit card info into it so I can use it to authorize payments at stores without dragging out a silly plastic card. I want it to use SecurID or something to generate dynamic numbers so I don't have to worry about the clerk, his manager or some hacker stealing my credit info. I want it to unlock and start my car.
I want it to speak X10, I want it to let me provide location info to systems in buildings that support it, so I don't have to turn on lights. I want the PC's I use to automaticly know my prefered desktop settings and my favorite web sites. I want it to hold my MP3 collection so I can listen to music on whatever playback equipment is nearby.
I want it to have more *#$%*#*$ buttons so I don't have to use T9!
This is a piece of technology that I carry with me or have within reach ALL THE TIME. Its rugged, its small (the electronics are so small now that the UI is the limiting factor), it has so much potential that phone makers just don't seem to get. Many of these features are really hard. Many are really, really easy, and would help to get people to see how useful it is to have one device that can do these things.
Re:Create demand (Score:2)
You don't like T9? I think it's bloody brilliant! I travel to Austria on business several times a year, so I bought myself a nice Sagem prepaid card phone. Sending an SMS is really quick and painless. Sure, if you step outside the bounds of what the dictionary knows, it's a bit painful, but if you stay within the dictionary, you can just fly!
trane
Re:Create demand (Score:2)
Then would you care to explain why J-Phone [j-phone.com]'s picture service Sha-Mail has managed to pick up over 5 million subscribers [pmn.co.uk] in the last year, leading to the doubling of data ARPU to 15%?
As for reasons why, pretty much the only reason I still use snail mail is postcards; MMS is about to fill that gap as well. And just the way I send a hell of a lot more email than I used to write paper letters, I suspect I'll be sending a hell of a lot more picture mails than I currently send postcards.
Here's hoping European operators have learned from the WAP debacle and don't price themselves out of the market -- again.
Cheers,
-j.
Re:Create demand (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit (Score:1)
You are not talking about a new appliance, but 3G over 2.5G. This is not a new appliance, it's just new widgetry that (by and large) nobody needs.
So you need to create a new market and new supply, to give birth to the demand. In my book, that sucks large watermelons.
Re:3G uses.. (Score:1)
Having worked for a few EMEA mobile network operators, and voiced my opinions over their forays into this hugely expensive arena, the common reply was:
"If we don't outlay all of this money (10's of billions) to push this new technology, then we will be out of the water. We don't want to do this, but we have no choice."
In a sense this is true. Do they stick with 2G technology and push their current business model ? If MobileCo down the road is developing 3G, chances are they will steal all of the other companies subscribers and game over.
Big business decisions are not a nice game to be playing in.
text of the article (Score:1, Informative)
By Mike Clendenin (mclenden@cmp[com)
EE Times
November 27, 2002 (3:15 p.m. EST)
It's scary to think that sophisticated 3G mobile systems may depend for their survival on Hello Kitty, that cutesy Japanese pink cat with whiskers but no mouth. But that's what it might come down to.
Not long ago, a 3G content developer noted that backgrounds with the Hello Kitty design, which serves the same purpose as the Western world's yellow smiley face, were one of the most popular downloads over i-mode, the mobile multimedia service offered by Japan's NTT Docomo.
Such simple things are also trés chic in Taiwan. Sixty percent of the traffic on the proprietary i-mode service is for ring tones, background wallpaper like Hello Kitty and real-time news, according to the top executive at KG Telecom.
KGT, a relatively small operator in Taiwan, decided earlier this year to forgo its bid for a 3G license because it saw too many obstacles, such as a lack of applications, to the generation of cash in the short term. Instead, KGT turned to NTT Docomo because it offered a tip-to-toe solution. So far, Taiwan is one of only two export destinations for i-mode.
For the mobile industry, Taiwan and Japan represent interesting case studies that offer evidence of the services consumers want. Though such evidence is far from conclusive, network operators, equipment operators, equipment vendors, handset providers and content developers that are still uncertain about how to make 3G successful might well take note.
But among industry insiders, it seems, the only certainty is that data services -- which require such things as licenses and network upgrades -- also entail greater expenses, untested applications and a new round of experimentation with handsets and how they should be used. Of course a few operators are averaging more money per user, but that tends to be on more proprietary systems like those in Japan.
Natural communication?
The slowdown in the general telecom market also brought a sense of urgency, if not quite desperation, to those who gathered in Taipei for IEEE's recent GlobeCom 2002. Operators, handset makers and content developers want to see data services enjoy the kind of success they are having in Japan and Korea.
Of the world's 70 million mobile-data users, 80 percent are in Japan, noted Kurt Hellstrom, president of troubled mobile-phone giant Ericsson. "We are just starting to see the growth in mobile data. It starts with camera phones and sending pictures and one day this will be a natural way of communicating with each other," Hellstrom said. "Nobody on the inside has ever expected that this [data services] technology shift would take place overnight."
Yet it will happen a bit more quickly if the industry can pull itself together, observers said, and overcome political divisiveness on such issues as interfaces, protocols, formats and content billing.
For instance, 69 operators, mostly of General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) networks, have launched multimedia messaging services (MMS) based on 3GPP standards, said J.T. Bergqvist, executive vice president of Nokia Networks. In terms of network interoperability, he said, the technical issues have largely been solved, opening the service to a potential base of 300 million users. Now "it is a question of [business] agreements between the operators" that will slow things down.
And for 3G, Bergqvist said, "We as an industry have not, by and large, been able to create something that is transportable from one operator to another. We have not created something yet where two operator systems would be interoperable. We have not created open interfaces in those data-oriented systems, particularly in Japan and Korea."
Such bottlenecks are, in some cases, causing frustrated operators to look for a shortcut to data services. That's what happened with Taiwan's KGT, which finally opted to purchase i-mode.
In December 1999 KGT was the first to launch the Wireless Application Protocol in Taiwan. Then in September 2000 it introduced GPRS, which was followed in August 2001 by an integrated GPRS over WAP portal called iGoGo. KGT launched i-mode in June 2002.
Executives at KGT believe the WAP protocol failed because it was primarily developed by a voice service community to help fill the gap of mobile data, making it a subset of voice.
WAP started as a value-added service and never took center stage where wireless data should have been, said Leslie Koo, chairman and chief executive officer of KGT. Handset consistency was an issue because each WAP handset had different versions of different browsers from different software vendors, so it was pretty much impossible for a carrier to provide consistent service to multiple handsets with various interfaces, Koo said.
"Sometimes your e-mail would work with Nokia handsets, but not with Ericsson's. And once you fine-tuned it to Ericsson's, then Motorola's had a bug. So you are caught constantly running around and finding answers from no one because your vendor will tell you, 'No, that's not my problem, it's the handsets.' Then the handset manufacturer will tell you, 'No, it's not the handsets, it's the browser.' And the browser manufacturer will tell you, 'Sorry, that's an outdated version of the browser, which is no longer supported.' "
Meanwhile, customer complaints are rolling in, he said. This leaves the carrier wondering whether it should be a wireless-access provider, a portal provider or a service integrator of "all these very complex vendor solutions and software solutions and content platforms. It is almost impossible to manage. No wonder WAP never took off," Koo said.
For better or worse, with i-mode, at least there are consistent standards for technical applications and business execution.
"These are not the best standards in the world, but they are standards that all i-mode service providers will follow," he said. "They not only include the content format but also the specs to handset manufacturers. So this is the first time that the carriers can ask the handset manufacturers and also the system integrators to provide an end-to-end solution that will meet the service requirements of delivering a consistent, high-quality service."
Common business sense suggests that the industry would learn from such a solution. So far, however, that remains questionable. "In the past, the industry, perhaps, has been guilty of just selling hardware. Glorious IDs," said Brian Holmes, a product-marketing director for Motorola (China) Electronics.
"But in this future world I speak to, design no longer specifically speaks to just hardware. It is about understanding consumer experiences and how they want to use the product, and actually doing application design specifically around the mobile environment and targeted at specific consumers. If we don't do that, as an industry we will disappoint."
Nearly commonplace
Asia, in general, has had the best rollout of data services so far. In Japan and Korea, networks and, more importantly, services are nearly commonplace. And mobile-data networks are rolling out in places like Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong, where mobile penetration (measured by SIM card subscriptions) is nearly at or above 100 percent, which is far above many Western countries.
Even in Asia, however, some network operators think that trumpeted promises of video-streaming services won't, in reality, pay the bills -- at least not yet. In certain markets based on highly proprietary systems, such as i-mode in Japan, there could be some exceptions, of course.
During a visit to Taiwan, NTT Docomo president and chief executive officer Keiji Tachikawa told IEEE Communication Society members that in Japan even cats and dogs will eventually participate in mobile chic.
Is such a scenario farfetched? Well, in a country that created the robotic dog, Aibo, it doesn't seem so crazy to imagine that man's best friend, if lost, would be found with the help of a GPS device that tracks an RF chip implanted in its collar. "The potential demand for mobile services is enormous if services could be applied to objects rather than people," Tachikawa said.
But given the realities of today's telecom slowdown, and the sensitive nature of the rollout stage for data services, where end users' first impressions are long-lasting, many operators will not assume that Japan's experience transfers easily.
If operators are to learn anything from Japan, it is that, to pay the bills, they should focus on the small stuff, such as Hello Kitty multimedia messages, rather than on the promise of video teleconferencing. "Trying to do full, 30-frame-per-second video, for example, on a GPRS network is probably not in the cards given the current level of compression technology," said Motorola's Holmes.
Yet, as the future shapes up video teleconferencing might actually be close to realization. Operators as well as handset providers and network equipment vendors are cozying up to the notion that IEEE 802.11 access should be a part of 3G. Ericsson's Hellstrom called it a "complementary" technology. Bell Labs fellow Qi Bi said, "Incorporating Wi-Fi into the third-generation system is an important part of the system design. 3G can provide ubiquitous coverage and Wi-Fi can cover the hot spots."
NTT Docomo's Tachikawa also factored Wi-Fi into his company's 4G plans. During his keynote to GlobeCom, Tachikawa revealed a few details of what NTT Docomo thinks 4G networks should do and how they will look. "We are thinking of using a cellular system because we plan to build it by extending the coverage and mobility of the 3G system," he said. "On the other hand, in low-mobility areas, such as indoors and in hot spots, it may be necessary to introduce a solution that incorporates wireless LAN-type technology for data transmission at even higher speed."
Fourth-generation systems should offer a peak speed of more than 100 Mbits per second in stationary mode, Tachikawa said, with an average of 20 Mbits/s when traveling. Network capacity should be at least 10 times that of 3G systems. In practical terms, that would quicken the download time of a 10-Mbyte file to one second on 4G, from 200 seconds on 3G, he said, enabling high-definition video to stream to phones and create a virtual-reality experience on high-resolution handset screens.
In the meantime, it's a good bet that operators will focus on early returns on investment, no matter how unglamorous the application might be. Since operators are used to a more-traditional role as connectivity providers rather than content providers -- let alone creators -- they will likely look to MMS as a workhorse revenue provider for 2.5G/3G data services, just as SMS is for 2G data services.
Many will be conservative, suggested Herman Rao, vice president of service network and enabling technologies for Taiwan's FarEastone Telecommunications Co. Ltd. "We know how to make money on connectivity, but we do not yet know how to make money on content. So the challenge for operators is on the content business and services model."
Rao, too, suspects that such simple applications as location-based maps, entertainment services and news will be the key to early 3G success. "Bandwidth is not as critical as equipment vendors try to make us believe," he said. "Video streaming won't be that important."
So like it or not, Hello Kitty and smiley faces may be the way forward. And that idea might not be such a stretch, since NTT Docomo is already moving on to enabling cats and dogs.
Hello Kitty the Future? I don't think so. (Score:4, Informative)
Of the world's 70 million mobile-data users, 80 percent are in Japan, noted Kurt Hellstrom, president of troubled mobile-phone giant Ericsson.
This may be true, but you have to understand that they have a FAR superior infrastructure and are years ahead of most of the US and Canada, but remember tha once the rest of the world catches up that figure will change drastically - remember these are mobile data users and its a lot more common down there to do mobile data comm... for now until other places catch up. Singapore is also quite impressive. Going on a subway when I was in Singapore was almost like a video arcade with nearly 60-70% of everyone staring at their phones playing games or sending SMS's around to their friends.
Once data sending is more widley available in phones and our networks are built up a bit more things will change drastically. Reliant on Hello Kitty? I don't think so....
Re:Hello Kitty the Future? I don't think so. (Score:2, Insightful)
How many soccer moms in SUV's do you want playing Tetris on thier phone in moring rush hour?
I don't believe infrastructure is the sole reason for slow uptake.
Re:Hello Kitty the Future? I don't think so. (Score:5, Informative)
With Japan, there are no huge wide open spaces. No worries about long highways to provide expensive and infrequently used (but critical to getting customers) service to. Just slam home a cell tower every five blocks and bob's yer uncle.
They also have huge penetration because it's so ungodly cheap over there. My roomie just came back from Japan, and was virtually offended by how much the service here was going to cost him - AND they were making him pay for the phone! The nerve! In Japan he got better service, for a quarter the price, with a free phone included.
Re:Hello Kitty the Future? I don't think so. (Score:1)
Re:Hello Kitty the Future? I don't think so. (Score:2, Interesting)
> spaces. No worries about long highways to
> provide expensive and infrequently used (but
> critical to getting customers) service to.Just
> slam home a cell tower every five blocks and
> bob's yer uncle.
Also, I understand in Japan there are no city squares. Anyone ever been to Rome, say Campo de' Fiori? All those people chatting face to face and hanging around before the pubs. Over here the real leisure use for cells is to coordinate friends to meeting points; no italian would survive a week without this kind of human interaction. Over there I think there's no urban infrastructure for people to easily meet face to face so they use 3G to make it up.
Why... (Score:5, Insightful)
I prefer my cheap old Nokia 6150 which I use to make phonecalls (surprise!) and send SMS with. Batteries last for about a week with normal usage.
Re:Why... (Score:1)
Prices will drop and the tech will be standard. If you ever ACTUALLY need to use it (there is always that one time @ band camp)... then you'll be changed a fortune in service fees / whatnot.
Atleast you'll have the opportunity... but dont think you'll get the service cheap.
-Tim
Killer phone app... (Score:2)
Mouthless cat (Score:1, Funny)
How are those depraved Japanese sickos going to satisfy their pleasures? There had better be a hole in the rear.
mmm Hello Kitty (Score:2, Funny)
As you hear cats meowing and see smoke suddenly spout huge amounts of smoke and the meowing stops.
in other news.. (Score:3, Funny)
Hello Kitty already key to (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hello Kitty already key to (Score:4, Funny)
Or is it supposed that Hello Kitty is the part you put inside?
Stupidest thing I ever heard (Score:3, Troll)
Does anyone have a sub-etha sens-o-matic I can borrow? I think the collective IQ of this planet has dropped to the point where I need to leave it and find another.
~Philly
Re:Stupidest thing I ever heard (Score:4, Insightful)
Even in games people do this... In Half-Life people care a lot about their custom "spray decals" that others see. In another game called SubSpace [subspacehq.com] people take pride in their tiny 12x8 'banners' and in their 'audio taunts'. And on websites like DeviantArt [deviantart.com] people actually PAY to have their user icons made professionally.
--
Phone as a network portal (Score:2, Interesting)
There are some Bluetooth enabled phones that almost meet these demands. They do not. Even when they come close, the networks are being built slowly.
Re:Phone as a network portal (Score:3, Informative)
--Joe
Not bad (Score:1)
Re:Phone as a network portal (Score:1, Informative)
My Nokia 8390 has an IR port that works with my laptop and my palm pilot (Palm III, and not even close to the latest software revision.).
Now, IR isn't as convenient as Bluetooth, but it does work and it works reasonably well.
The only problem? It's way to frigg'n expensive to use the GPRS functionality.
I'm paying $50/month unlimited at the moment. But that won't last much longer, when that expires the cost per K is too expensive to actually use the functionality.
Of course nobody uses G3 for anything significant. YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO.
GPRS is not G3, but if I have to pay $30/10megs and then a few dollars per meg OVER 10 megabytes do you really think I can have functionaly better than WAP?
I ain't that rich.
nifty (Score:2, Funny)
Hello, world! (Score:1)
print "Hello Kitty...\n";
Seiously, first statement: All things demanding high bandwitdh (like sending video streams and such) can already be done with 2.5G.
Second statement: Hello Kitty may be key to 3G success.
Coclusion: "Hello Kitty" clones can't be done with 2.5G?
Thats like comparing modems with DSL, browsing the web and look at pr0n works with a modem, why would I need a DSL connection?
Themes (Score:4, Insightful)
3G's main market is downloading ringtones and backgrounds
This focus on non-core functionality is rampant throughout the technical industry. Take MP3 players for example; the main feature of MP3 players (winamp, Musicmatch etc.) nowadays in skinning.
Who cares what the music quality is, as long as I can make my player look like Tux it must be good.
There's so much crap out there, I don't understand why designers don't try to make their product stand out by actually working properly instead of looking pretty.
Market plateau (Score:1)
Re:Themes (Score:1)
I still have to see a Linux/M$/OsX mp3 player that can do like a BeOS one I once saw. Someone please help me recalling it's name as this app really blew my mind away:
Can play mp3 @ varispeed, even in reverse.
Can play multiple mp3 at once, mixing relative volume and speed (+/-)
Stock pile of DSP plugins (some worked, other crapped out...)
All this in an incredibly simple (stock BeOS widgets, no GFX crap) and manageable UI.
I never tried with multiple sound cards & multiple mouses but this measly app would mix alà double deck turntable... (someone should try running a couple of club nights with this thing) try doing that with WinXP!
Would **YOU** buy it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Would you pay £4 ($6) per half-megabyte for GPRS in the UK?
I wouldn't. I don't.
Normal people just don't want to pay that much.
Re:Would **YOU** buy it? (Score:2)
Re:Would **YOU** buy it? (Score:1)
(switch to
*for twice the price. Plus tax.
3G will survive... (Score:5, Insightful)
People don't like spending their money, and since the economy is in a slump, they are going to be even more uncertain about spending it on a product they don't really need.
3G means faster internet, etc. But, unless the users have the money to pay the price required, 3G won't move far...
But the concept of 3G will survive in some form or another until it becomes cheap enough for the casual user to purchase a 3G device.
Hello Kitty works in Japan, because the market is different there. In the States, Europe and Canada, either something that will get the consumers willing to pay the extra bucks is needed, or just plain old time, so the price of the 3G devices go down.
Streaming audio... (Score:1)
Yah, the notion that customization is the primary motivation for 3G is pretty dumbfuckstupid...
Re:Streaming audio... (Score:2, Interesting)
Not for 6$ per half megabyte, they dont. And if they did, they no doubt already could.
Stupid hello kitty backdrops are the only thing most people could do with reasonable cost, and I think thats the point.
Re:Streaming audio... (Score:1)
Other things Hello Kitty is key to ... (Score:5, Funny)
Open Letter to 3G Operators (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll roll my own content and killer app.
Thanks.
Re:Open Letter to 3G Operators (Score:3, Funny)
Some nerd like me, for example.
That's the gotcha - they're greedy SOBs (Score:3, Insightful)
The phone companies want to bend you over for the service, then bend you over AGAIN for the content. It makes too much sense just to give you an IP - then they can't profit at every turn. I really don't understand why they don't get this. In Japan, i-Mode services MADE the digital network there. People can add their own little stupid things, and whatever is trendy, gets used. This is "revolutionary" and "radical" thinking. I hope the telcos get burnt even worse than they are now - they've effectively STOPPED (wireless) infrastructure development here. I can't complain too much about broadband, but it will never exist where I live in the woods.
There's a gotcha that the telcos don't know about though. It has to do with those "Features" my phone has I never use, and don't even consider because they cost so much to use. It's about to bite them in the ass, hard. What's that? It's the social use and acceptance of technology. In North America, most people associate the cellular phone with voice calls. Period. Different in europe and asia, but not here. Cell == Voice. No association with data.
If 802.11 takes off in a big way - all indicators are it will, it's great stuff - then the social acceptance of that technology will happen. People will associate "mobile wireless" with a 802.11 enabled PDA or notebook. They won't think about using mobile wireless services the way they use a cell phone - they'll just expect it as a feature of where they happen to be, offered by a mall, coffee place, school, office. It won't be the cell phone providing that connectivity.
Once that gets entrenched, it's all over for 3G wireless. I think it's already stillborn.
I hope the WiFi people take these people to the cleaners. Bend THEM over. Own your own infrastructure. WiFi gives people what they want, and you know what, $300 for an access point - or even $1000 for a few - isn't really that much compared to what equivilant service would cost me, if it ever happens. When infrastructure is cheaper than service, ya gotta start asking questions.
Maybe I'm wrong. 3G is a non-issue in my life, though.
My $0.02 (cdn)
Mobility (Score:2)
Depends on your definition on mobility.
Try 802.11 while moving (relatively to your partner) and see how it performs.
What about handover between two 802.11 nodes (especially in different sub-networks)?
You'll need at least Mobile-IP.
AFAIK, the current trend seems to be less exclusive [cellular-news.com].
PAN, WLAN, 3G have their niches.
Of course, public WLAN spots are beginning to occupy a great share of the market, which 3G was targeted for.
Note, that it is also partly stated in the article:
Virtual Reality on my phone? Gimme a break. (Score:2)
Yes. Virtual reality on a cell phone. That'll work.
Hello Kitty in our future? (Score:4, Funny)
an original story (Score:1)
3G must be used to add value. (Score:3, Insightful)
Third Generation networks will be adopted, no question, because the large mobile players have the financial ability to push it to their customers and customers have a willingness to try it.
The long-term profitability of 3G technology, however, depends on if it can drive new users to mobile technology and if it will inspire current users to spend more money using wireless service.
Right now, 3G is used for downloading ringtones, sending small pictures and faster mobile web. Great! . . . but I, as a mobile telephone user, could care less about those things. Mobile web . . . the killer app? Gag me. I got on the "mobile web" with Verizon, simply because it was included as a "bonus." After using it, I can definitely say that I'd never pay for it, because it provides no real value.
For 3G technology to be successful in the long run, wireless companies must provide a data service that compliments and adds real value to mobile telephone service.
Kitty is a pussycat (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, I think the latter will be the real killer application. Yes - once again - gampling and pornography will save a new technology. It is saddening that the human race can only get viable business models from decadency. But hey - the phones are cool!
Reminds me of.... (Score:1)
Well... ISDN didn't have a mouthless japanese cat on it's side. So it HAS to work, right?
Re:Reminds me of.... (Score:3, Informative)
Voice over IDSN was what was supposed to happen to analog telephony. Voice over ISDN is actually quite nice. You get end-to-end digital quality (but still only 8Khz 8-bit mono), a path for caller ID and charging info, and a feature set comparable to typical office PBX systems.
For some wierd reason, US ISDN voice doesn't provide power to the subscriber, and you need a local power supply. European ISDN does provide power over the phone line, so the phone will still work even if local power goes out. This is another reason that voice ISDN never went anywhere in the US.
Re:Reminds me of.... (Score:2)
Stupid as it sounds... (Score:1)
Why do technologies become standard? Because they're used frequently.
Why do people use technologies? Because they get some sort of benefit from them.
And "Hello Kitty," inane as it sounds, is a benefit that many in that market seem to want.
Remember that whole VHS/Betamax thing? Betamax had the smalller cassette with superior quality, but despite its "advantages," VHS still won out.
VHS had the bigger advantages in that fight: consumer and industry support.
Pink cat?!? (Score:2)
Hello Kitty as a new slashdot editor? (Score:1, Funny)
The ability to use Hello Kitty 3G slashcode from *anywhere* would reduce time pressure. No longer would editors be forced to rush through articles so they can get to the bar sooner.
Now, with HK3GS, dupes can be posted *from the bar*. Woohoo!
A cat? (Score:2)
It's a good thing you described it. Because, yoy know, we're geeks and none of us would know what you were talking about...
Seriously, even though we're not its target demographic, anyone here doesn't know Hello Kitty?
And, is that funny, or scary?
Moblogging, the G3 Killer App? (Score:3, Interesting)
Next thing I know, this concept is a big deal [thefeature.com] and I find similar systems [bedope.com] popping up all [stuartwoodward.com] over [ito.com] the place.
It seems to be an up and coming meme, and I imagine that this nascent meme combined with 3G speeds could really turn into something exciting.
almost everthing 3G can do on today GPRS/MMS (Score:1, Interesting)
The advantage of pure 3G however are two:
1) allows wireless videoconferecing between two mobile users(which is not possible on 2.5G networks)
2) 3G UMTS interface allow multiple sessions so that you can handle video communication, sound, voice and other comm interactions all together. This is what the computer Desktop world calls 'Multitasking'.
In the grim future of Hello Kitty... (Score:3, Funny)
'nuff said.
They are screwing themselves... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think many many people dream of just using a laptop of PDA for true wireless internet access -- if the costs are reasonable.
Right now the wireless telcos are pricing themselves out of the market.
Odd? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's scary to think that sophisticated 3G mobile systems may depend for their survival on Hello Kitty
What is your motivation for reading slashdot? Fun?Leisure? What is your motivation in 90% of your day? Fun? Leisure? Nothing scary in it other than the fact that people do not realize it.
Goodbye, Kitty - get me an IP address (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem in a nutshell is this - they believe they'll make more (like 10x) more for mobile data and they think they can charge per bit. Users are staying away in droves and they'll continue to do so until mobile behaves like DSL/cable modem, or low speed frame relay. I'd happily shell out $99/mo for something that got me ISDN speed at home and everywhere else in town, but that rate for an account with a 20 meg/month cap is utterly useless.
So much that could be done and its a darned shame we have to stay in business whilst doing our artwork, isn't it?
Full Disclosure: I own an evil, rate shaping ISP, that persecutes P2P users in such a zealous fashion as to inspire the admiration for various third world dictatorships.
Re:Goodbye, Kitty - get me an IP address (Score:2, Insightful)
I know plenty of *women* who like Hello Kitty stuff.
Also, in Japan, cute = user friendly. Hello Kitty = cute.
If you want something to sell in Japan, paint it Hello Kitty Pink.
Basket case... (Score:2)
Talk about putting all your Kitties in one basket!
We KNOW who Hello Kitty Is! (Score:1, Troll)
If you really love Hello Kitty (And who doesn't?) I'd suggest subscribing to alt.sex.hello-kitty (Hell folks here are less likely to know what Usenet is than Hello Kitty...)
I'll go for it when... (Score:2)
My "killer application" would be the ability to plug my laptop into my cell phone and get a decent connection speed, EG: 56k, 128k would be nice, 512k would be sweet.
14.4 with high latency just doesn't cut it. Paying rediculous prices per MB won't cut it, either.
Currently, 14.4 connection rate, 1000 minutes, $45/mo (fairly standard prices) means you are really paying, (if you get sustained 14.4 connection) about $3.25 per MB.
Make that $0.50 per MB and I'll be an evangelist.
Best would be "always on" (with digital networks this shouldn't be a problem) and pay for quantities of data transferred.
This whole minutes thing is kinda stupid since about 1/3 of the time I get charged for is spent with me saying: "hello? hello!? Are you there?" and that just sucks.
Hello Kitty May Be Key to 3G Survival (Score:1, Interesting)
too much credit to hello kitty (Score:1)
This guy just made news out of no news! Happens everyday!
As for 3G, it is too expensive, and no, we don't want mpegs in our mailbox. Also they are bigger, and batteries don't last very long. So people just get the cheap, lasts forever, flat and folding Docomos with still digital cameras. That was a hit actually. Yes, we like to talk and take photos. Not everyone likes to smile for more than half a second.
It's stories like this... (Score:2)
Dumb conclusion (Score:5, Interesting)
Audio-on-demand. From anywhere you want. THAT will kick ass. MP3s have been one of the killer apps for the web. Being able to build a little MP3 player that can play MP3s, record them from the radio, AND stream any song you want over a 3G network - that will rock. Again, it's not a fucking cellphone. I want a small cellphone that I can talk into. Maybe a bluetooth headset would be nice. And an ultra-high density fuel cell to power the handset. But other than that, I am pretty satisfied with my cellphone as a thing I use to call people, not a thing I use for video, picture-taking or music-listening.
I mean, this stuff doesn't take much creativity to come up with. Sending phone-quality pictures to my friends from my cellphone? Eh. Not that impressive. Videophones? They've failed utterly though the technology has been there for years (and the bandwidth is actually there in many households for it to work quite well). No reason to think that video-cellphones will do better. People like cellphones because they can do other shit while they talk on them - I drive and use my cell all the time because I'm a BUSY fucking person (before I get flamed, I always use my handsfree set so I can devote most of my attention to the road).
So, in short, think of all the cool apps that could be built with 3G wireless bandwidth that ARE NOT cellphones. My car should have a GPS console, with integrated 3G wireless, that lets me search the web, auto-updates the map data (I don't know how the current car-GPS units do this). And audio-on-demand in the car - that would be great. Anyway, there are still things *I* can't do with *my* cell phone - real SMTP email access, real web browsing (not the current shitty excuse for this), download email attachments and view them - I suppose these examples are mostly 2.5G compatible apps, but the ones above seem to require 3G.
Hands free kit doesn't help (Score:4, Informative)
BZZZT! Wrong!
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/16/cell.phone.drivin g/index.html [cnn.com]
Probably nobody else will see this because the parent article is days old by now, and the mod wave has passed by, but maybe you'll come back and see if anyone replied to your comment, and then at least you'll be ONE person who's had their vision adjusted.
When you talk on the phone, your driving skills are compromised; using a hands-free kit doesn't help much. I'm also a busy fucking person, I carry a cell phone, and I don't talk on it while the car is moving (even stop-and-go traffic). You need to stop kidding yourself. Sorry.
Re:Not that I disagree (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dumb conclusion (Score:2)
I never said that Hello Kitty-wallpaper or customized ringtones don't appeal to the masses. In fact, I wish my shitty cellphone could download customized ringtones (I think I'll pass on the Hello Kitty wallpaper as I'm not a 13 year old girl). However, I don't really get the sense that custom ringtone download is inherently more or less "geeky" than any other wireless app. Furthermore, as was ALREADY ESTABLISHED IN THE ORIGINAL POST, those aren't 3G apps. They don't require 3G, and really have nothing to do with 3G. They require minimal bandwidth data transfer. Frankly, to say they require 2.5G is a stretch.
The geekiness of these applications is pretty much determined by how hard they are to execute. As long as downloading customized ringtones requires you to jump through a million hoops and do all sorts of work with a computer, link cables, whatever, only a frigging geek would do it. If it's just a matter of going into a menu to the "ringtone" selection and selecting "Download more Ringtones" and picking from a list and having it happen automagically, the application suddenly becomes accessible to the masses who will realize that it's not only cool but that they can actually do it without messing with any geeky stuff. The same argument applies to all potential 3G apps. If my car comes with a console that not only supports GPS, but integrated 3G wireless, which is connected to an embedded MP3 decoder piped into the car stereo, then all Joe Consumer needs to do is sign up for the 10 dollar a month music-on-demand service when he buys his car and click on the menu button to select songs for a personal playlist, or select a reccommended themed playlist before setting out for his daily
commuting or for that long intercity drive.
Now if you can tell me with a straight face that music-on-demand is more geeky and has less mass appeal than fucking cell-based videophones, I will laugh in your face and call you an RIAA gimp.
Coming Soon: Godzilla vs Hello Kitty (Score:3, Funny)
He's mad!
And he's looking for a little pussy!
Hello Kitty site (Score:4, Informative)
Battery IS the key (Score:1)
Today, even for 2.5G, mobile and infrastructure makers can't use the full bandwith because of battery life issues (I heard about less than 1/2 of theorical GPRS bandwidth being actually used, for instance).
So, even if a killer app would exist, it would need:
- better batteries
- more powersaving electronics
- better device size / screen size ratio
Another lead is of course business users for laptop access, but 1) WiFi may be a better contestant and 2) it's not what we could call "mainstream"
Thank God for ignorant teenagers (Score:1)
A) They don't need a cell phone/normal people don't need a cell phone
B) All these new features are unnecessary.
C) They need a cell phone only for making calls.
The main motivation seems to be to distinguish themselves from "ignorant teenagers" and such. Well I thank God for those ignorant teenagers. Sure, making your phone look like it belongs in a circus isn't stylish, but if it weren't for these teenagers we'd have no technological advancement whatsoever. At least not if left with the demand curve of the average slashdotter.
To group A I simply say this: For five years I haven't had a single meeting with friends that hasn't been set up by saying "Come to town, somewhere, sometime around 13:00. I'll call you when I'm free from my previous appointment." A few months ago, I had to meet someone who didn't have a cell phone, and it was somewhere I'd never been before. We had to set a very rigorous schedule with an exact but unknown location and it took us half an hour to find each other. Damn right normal people don't need cell phones, huh?
And that's just one argument, I didn't even mention safety etc.
To group B: I am currently going to college one Atlantic ocean away from my family. I'd kill for a video phone. No, webcams aren't enough. I can't whip out my laptop whenever I'm doing something fun I want my parents to see. There IS demand for advanced features beyond that of the "look what I have" factor.
To group C, these are the additional features of my current phone:
Ring tones for voice and SMS - very useful, I never have to check my phone when another one rings. My tone is tasteful.
Alarm clock - the only alarm clock I need.
Games - ok, unnecessary, but they can kill time, and who cares if they're there.
Java - I could write my own applications if I wasn't too lazy.
Calculator - Has saved me several times.
Unit converter - Invaluable having moved to the promised land of non-base10 conversions.
Calendar - Wouldn't remember anything without my always ready to alert calendar. Oh and I can sync it with my PC too.
Infrared - Hey, I can use my phone as a wireless modem!
Bluetooth - Wow, this is even easier than infrared.
Voice recorder - Never embarrass yourself looking for a pencil and paper again.
Countdown timer - faster than setting the alarm, very convenient for short periods of time.
Stopwatch - I use this every week to time things.
WAP - not really useful, but I can't wait 'til I get a phone that can browse the real internet.
Anyone saying that you can find these functions on other devices should remember that I have all of them in the volume of a few matchboxes. Think about it.
What really happened... (Score:1)
Ridiculous monthly transfer limits, that's what happened.
Sprint's sorta got it figured out now, but that's a recent development.
And the phones are still gonna have to come down in price. I don't care how pretty the screen is, I ain't payin' $300 for a frickin' telephone.
In the U.S., it is the providers' fault... (Score:2)
I want a 2.5G or 3G phone because I want other mobile devices, like a laptop or my Sony Clie to be able to use that bandwidth. Currently I can hook my Sony Clie up to my Samsung SCH-3500 through SprintPCS and get a 14.4 connection. The Wireless Web option adds a whole $5/month onto my bill. Not too bad..
I keep looking to upgrade to a Vision-capable phone, but I run into a problem of cords. Sprint sometimes offers a Wireless Web connection kit that has a Vision phone - USB cable, but these seem to be there mainly to transfer ringtones and pictures to the phone.
And you can forget about ever hooking up my Clie to the phone. Most of the third-party cord manufacturers seem to be saying "It will be difficult, if not impossible, to make custom built PDA - Vision phone cords."
In addition, most of the Vision plans only include 2MB data a month. That is plenty for ringtones, games, and pictures. If I want to check my mail, though, that starts to use that bandwidth very quickly.
So I am stuck with 14.4, it would seem, and stuck with an old phone so that I might actually have a cable. I am stuck with an old plan so that I can have decent bandwidth every month.
What is pushing 3G? Ringtones and pictures.
Why? This seems to be largely the only thing you can do with the 2.5G/3G phones in the U.S.
If I am wrong, someone please correct me on all of this. This seems to be the case using the information I have found (Google, etc.)
Re:In the U.S., it is the providers' fault... (Score:2, Informative)
The Cultural Connection (Score:2)
The people who download Hello Kitty stuff for their cell phone are the same people who have Hello Kitty key fobs, knapsacks, hair clips, T-shirts, etc. It's a cultural phenomenon where a vast number of people are influenced by cute.
Cute isn't relegated to phones, screensavers and the like, either. When I worked at Fujitsu writing supercomputer and mainframe manuals, there was always the requisite cute section that told the system administrator how to insert floppy disks and take care of floppy media in general. These sections always included drawings of cute floppy disk guys suffering the abuse of magetism, incorrect insertion into drives or -- oh, the memories -- the dreaded high-temps! And, no, this was not just a matter of Fujitsu corporate culture. In freelancing, I did stuff for NEC supercomputer manuals that was basically the same. If it's a Japanese manual, it's got cute inside.
Cute manuals don't wash in North American tech manuals. Cute is taken to be an insult, I think, for a North American ubergeek. The point, therefore, is that our G3 providers have to always be sure to translate popular services based on cultural acceptance. Transliteration is doomed to be an expensive failure.
Re:Hello Kitty and the Oppression of Womyn (Score:1)
"All I can say is I like him drawn that way"
Stop reading so much into the innocuous and go see a movie or a play.
Dilbert has a mouth (Score:1)
Take Dilbert, for example. I'm sure that most of the Slashdot audience is familiar with Dilbert. He's the downtrodden cubicle dweller/engineer who is constantly doomed to failure and has no mouth.
Dilbert has a mouth. You can see it open in the animated cartoon. The strip, on the other hand, shows it closed all the time, and you can't see it because the lips are so thin.
Was there an animated Hello Kitty series? If so, did some characters talk like Garfield, Noddy, and Solid Snake (i.e. no mouth movement)?
Re:Hey, listen, numbnuts (Score:1)
HE DOESN'T HAVE A MOUTH, DIPSHIT.
My point was that even though you can't see it in the strip, Dilbert does have a mouth. I offered the animated series as evidence. You don't have to use obscene language to make a point.