Tales From Behind Microsoft's Firewall 247
lizzyben writes "CIOinsight.com is hosting an interview with Robert Scoble on life after Microsoft. 'By blogging for the world's largest software company, Scoble changed the way companies communicate with the world and became an industry celebrity in the process.' He talks about MS culture, senior management and the benefits of blogging from inside the belly of the software beast." More from the article: "We used blog-search engines to find anyone who wrote the word 'Microsoft' on their blog. Even if they had no readers and were just ranting, 'I hate Microsoft,' I could see that and link to it, or I could participate in their comments, or send them an e-mail saying, 'What's going on?' And that told those people that someone was listening to their rants, that this is a different world than the one in which no one listens. It was an invaluable focus group that Microsoft didn't have to pay for."
behind their firewall? (Score:5, Funny)
Short list (Score:3, Funny)
That's sure to be a short list
What are "CIO" and "Insight" doing in the same word anyway? Are they leveraging an optimized something or another?
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I bet they had an awful lot of links to slashdot posts then...
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Astrohard
Yet nothing is changin.... (Score:5, Insightful)
You may have responded to some rants on how Microsoft products work (or don't), and that is all fine and dandy, as it was appreciated. However, the problems are *still* there. I still get the little hardware wizard that wants to help me when I plug in a new mouse, or Windows will still notify me that there is either a new network found or that my computer is at a security risk because of virus subscription expiration in the middle of a Powerpoint presentation!
It's stuff like that (and much more) that are driving people to alternatives
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That's just plain crazy talk.
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"Microsoft didn't tell me my Antivirus protection had expired, just because I had a power point slide open!"
There is no way to make everyone happy, so you provide the best protection you can and try to make the least number of people pissed. To me, a better question would be "why did you let your antivirus expire?".
Re:Yet nothing is changin.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, no.... I would not.
How unprofessional is it in the middle of a presentation to have something like that happen? In the movies, they call it interruption of suspension of disbelief. In business and science, it's called absurd.
There is no way to make everyone happy, so you provide the best protection you can and try to make the least number of people pissed. To me, a better question would be "why did you let your antivirus expire?".
That is a cop out that lazy people trot out when they do not want to do the real work required to think about how people actually interact with their computers. Actually, there *is* a better way and Apple computer has showed us.
Mod parent up! (Score:2)
#1. An icon on the task bar that changes appearance to indicate you have system messages.
#2. A list of messages pops up when you log on.
#3. A list of messages pops up when you come out of a period of inactivity.
Your "check engine" light does not take over the windshield of your car, does it? Why should a less important message on your computer take over the monitor?
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Just curious
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I thing the term you are looking for is "stall". Fortunately, at the moment your car stalls, the windshield doesn't turn opaque blue and print out:
"Your car has performed an illegal operation at module:alternator and was halted to protect your cargo. Please restart."
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How unprofessional is it in the middle of a presentation to have something like that happen?
How is the computer supposed to know what you're doing ?
Before you answer, you might want to ponder the unintentional consequences of allowing such a warning to be programmatically suppressed.
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It is in the same damn place as on windows - dufus.
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What is wrong with it? I've been running multiple monitors on Macs since 1987 and had as many as three connected at one time. Currently I have a 30in 2560X1600 display and a 23in 1920X1200 display and have never had any problems.
Now, contrast that with Microsoft and you'd find that I was not able to get native support for multiple monitor configurations from Microso
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I had no issue with dual monitors on WinNT4SP6a. Granted if you maximized a window it went over both screens, but it was nearly the most plug and play thing on NT. (granted teh bitchen nVidia driver likely did help).
I think with some work I had dual screen all the way back to NT3.51 and Win98SE.
-nB
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Perhaps because Symantic is one of the very few companies that suck worse than MS!
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Well, the very few times it's happened to me, it *has* been when I first logged in. More specifically though, I'd imagine that it happens when the AV software notifies the security centre that it needs to be updated, which is likely to be whenever it feels like it.
I'd be wary of pinning all the blame for this one on MS; it's entirely possible that it's the av software that's na
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Popping up a message at any unpredictable time, instead of when you're least likely to be in the middle of something IS Microsoft's fault.
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However, allowing a badly written app to blantantly interrupt a mission-critical app (or an embarrasing one like the PP presentation) is bad too.
Re:Yet nothing is changin.... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, really, it isnt.
Unrequested drastic UI and focus alterations are _always_ undesired. You dont need to query anything about wether the user should be interrupted; the user should _not_ be interrupted. For anything. At any time.
Nobody _ever_ has so much spare time these days that they sit around doing nothing but wait for random suggestions, be it from telemarketers or syslogs. They're always doing something, and unless 'looking at the system messages' has reached their priority queue, whatever they're doing is always more important.
(Actually, there is one time where an interruption is appropriate; notification that they're going to be a whole lot more interrupted in a short while, such as notifying the user that a system shutdown is imminent or the battery is about to explode)
There. Now that we've concluded that interruptions with push-information are more or less always inappropriate, the question instead becomes 'how do we quickly and unobtrusively notify the user that there is information available when his attention strays'?
The answer to that, of course, is things like notification bars, system trays, tickers, etc. Unobtrusive UI features requested and placed appropriately by the user.
"It's a significant challenge."
No, really, it isnt. Anyone who's been in a classroom should be able to solve it; thirty unruly programs need to learn to raise their hand and wait to get asked, rather than blurt out whatever's on their mind.
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Sure, it's called cooperative multitasking...
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I'd say the answer would be to pop up the alert in the background, behind the "important" application(s) and wait there quietly until any of the "important" apps either quit or notify the system that they're no longer "important".
I agree it's a challenge, and I agree there's no easy way to handle old/badly written apps that don't take advantage of this notification API, but that doesn't mean they should say "the hell with it" and not try to make it better at all.
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"Microsoft didn't tell me my Antivirus protection had expired, just because I had a power point slide open!"
There is no way to make everyone happy, so you provide the best protection you can and try to make the least number of people
pissed. To me, a better question would be "why did you let your antivirus expire?".
Exactly! People bitch if MS doesn't pop up a notification and people will bitch if MS does pop up a notification. MS t
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Exactly! People bitch if MS doesn't pop up a notification and people will bitch if MS does pop up a notification. MS tries
to make everyone happy by making everything customizable (IE: local/group policies for everything under the sun it seems).....
however, the extra code to accomodate the configurable options adds to bloat. So people will bitch about the bloat and the
higher machine requirements.
You will never be able to make everyone happy. Particularly certain linux crowds that will complain over any littl
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Its doubtful they're even doing that. They could at least try to make it more configurable. That, of course, would make it look more complex, and frighten the hopelessly dumbed-down masses. They've painted themselves into a corner, and don't seem to have either the ability or percieved need to get out of it.
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(You can click through the control panel applet to change the notification settings for Security Center items, such as virus protection. But AFIK there is no gui interface for turning off all the damn annoying dialog balloons, such as new network notification, new program installed, etc., etc., etc.)
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Perception is changin.... (Score:2)
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Did you know you can turn those warnings off under the MS Security Center?? I don't think that is a MS issue, it is fully user configurable. (If they set the default to not warn you, everyone would once again bitch about the lax MS security. Either way they can't really make everyone happy.)
Too much work (Score:2, Insightful)
Why didn't
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too much work (Score:5, Insightful)
But quite dissimilar from the +5 moderated posts. Slashdot has this unique automoderation feature that one seems interested in copying. Flames on
Really, the signal/noise ratio is very high here compared to other forums.
I don't linke the "we are the core of the technology world" meme, though...
Three step solution to Microsoft's problems (Score:2)
Step 2: Don't change anything at Apple, except to tell them to license their OS to other manufacturers.
Step 3: Plan the transition from XP to OS X.
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Step 0 : Rob bank to afford Apple hardware
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Apple appears to have a pretty good strategy at the moment of taking over all the fun things that talk to your computer one by one until Microsoft is completely surrounded.
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Rants or criticism, whatever you want to call them, comments modded 5 about Microsoft most likely give a pretty good feel about how savvy users and developers are feeling about them or a given product of theirs.
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No, they wouldn't, because million of slashdotters perform the filtering for free. All they have to do is browse at +5. I read lots of MS stories here and I never see plain-vanilla "Micr0$0f7 suxx, lam3r!!!" comments.
However, getting rid of the Borg icon would be good.
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Why do I get the feeling that small, discrete blogs are being found and attended to, but something major where there is a user base of skill and regular usage of their products that aren't being paid attention to, or (gasp) heeded at all.
Or do they read /. all the time, and just keep it on the download so we don't become full of M$ loving?
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And Scientology on /.? I won't even go there, but as it was said on SouthPark, "You're getting Sued!"
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Microsoft eats babies and is the spawn of hell
Scientology eats babies and is the spawn of hell
I, networkBoy, an on-line avatar of a RealLifePerson(tm) hereby warrent the above two statements to be statements of fact and not of my opinion.
There, now that I'v slandered both of them, we will know who reads
-nB
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Second, they would have to prove that you knew those statements to be false. And let's be honest, are you really sure?
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As to the slander/libel, hey it's all the same in a fixed medium. (was in radio, while you're speaking it it's slander, once it hits transcript it's libel, either way my broadcast licence is no more
-nB
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Maybe he does read Slashdot?
looks around nervously
Maybe he's reading right now.
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Results 1 - 10 of about 87,200 for "I hate Microsoft". (0.37 seconds)
There's some reading for you.
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focus group might improve things (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, I beg to differ on the characterization that the world's blog is being considered like a big focus group. When a real focus group pans a product idea, the maker doesn't try to rationalize the current design, the maker drops it or improves it and starts over. Blog writers are howling into the wind, and it doesn't matter if they are heard or not: Microsoft will just go on doing what Microsoft wants to do, because they're big enough and the market is big enough that they feel they can ignore the whiners.
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One case is the last version of the Chevy Caprice. It was a new curvy design, and they brought in some focus groups. Response was favorable, but for 1 detail - the rear wheelwells were not rounded but "skirted", in a throwback to an earlier design aesthetic. The focus groups pretty consistently said that detail made the car look heavy in the rear, giving it a "fat ass". The chief designer ignored this data, insisting that his d
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And they wonder how they got the title Big Brother (Score:3, Insightful)
Right of reply (Score:3, Insightful)
It's hardly a surprise to learn that deliberately publicised information is being found and read - that's the whole point, surely? I remember reading a comment from the BBC News web team a while ago saying pretty much the same thing - people were saying it was scary when the Beeb team rep
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I hear your point and it's well taken, but I have to admit - this is chiefly why I won't use blogs and other publically available and searchable mediums to write my thoughts about ANYTHING.
If I indicated I hated the President of United States in a blog somewhere, I would be equally annoyed, offended and paranoid about some advocate of the President contacting me to sell me on whether he's a good President or not. Interestingly enough, I don't see other companies or organizations doing that, much less tou
Karma phishing (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes. Astroturf. (Score:2)
Twitter, do you really want me to prove you wrong?
Right; here we go: my MySpace [myspace.com]. Note where I say I'm 17 and I work for a supermarket [wikipedia.org]. And that the picture is me, in a Waitrose uniform.
Now, surely an "M$ astroturfer" wouldn't be working in a fucking supermarket?
I expect you to retaliate with ad hominem shit, rather than what would be most decent; an admission that I'm NOT paid by Microsoft. I don't know why I should try and prove anything to you, except to make you
Spare me, Robert (Score:5, Informative)
Spare yourself.. (Score:2)
Same goes for the Xbox side of the house. THey listen, they get on blogs and they deliver. Checkout Majornelson.com for so
Re:Spare yourself.. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's identical to XP and 2000, just with more beta testers. There's really no change at all with Vista's testing and public scrutiny. As for a vastly different OS, they made vastly different OSs with 95 and NT, so this really isn't anything new either.
Microsoft was forced to release the Xbox in a different way than they are used to. It was a completely new and different market and they were the underdog. It had nothing to do with public feedback or demands from users. They pushed into a market the only way possible. And they're still losing ($).
Microsoft has not changed at all. They've had the same business model for over 25 years. They've had only two departments (currently only 2 products) ever turn a profit. They've been eating up competitor companies for two decades. They put out more PR people to interact on forums so their customers feel better but the results are the same. Bug rates haven't drastically dropped and after their major security initiative a few years ago nothing is more secure. Read the blogs of Microsoft employees to see how management still doesn't listen. Both internally and externally nothing has significantly changed.
Call me cynical, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Easy one... (Score:2, Redundant)
Yeah, they listen allright (Score:2, Insightful)
More like, they search all the blogs like /. and mod down anyone who critizes Microsoft or calls their products proprietary pieces of shit.
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Why is this news? (Score:2)
They listen well, but they don't act well. (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is, Microsoft has always tried to appease users instead of trying to help them.
The difference is expertise. Users know what they need to do, but they're mostly not software engineers or UI designers, so they aren't able to say exactly how their needs should be met. Even if they have some idea of what they want, they're very unlikely to be informed of the implications of what they're asking for.
A good UI designer has that expertise. He knows how to meet the user's needs. He doesn't just do whatever the user wants; he examines their complaint, realizes what the real need is, and programs an intelligent, usable solution. Then that solution is rigorously tested to ensure it is actually better than the situation it was aiming to solve.
Microsoft doesn't have this expertise. For all their supposedly brilliant minds, I see no evidence of their recognizing any principles of good software design. Instead, they just appease users by doing exactly what the user tells them to do, regardless of the consequences. Even if the addition makes things worse. They don't help the user; they pander to the user.
The user says, "There are too many items in these menus." Microsoft responds with "personalized menus." They addressed the complaint but they didn't help the situation at all. The real solution would be to better organize the menus. Any programmer can look at the menus of, say, Word, and intuit a better arrangement.
The user says, "There are too many icons in my system tray." Microsoft responds with a button that collapses the tray. This is a band-aid solution, which doesn't address the real problem: too many programs staying resident for no reason. The real solution would have been implementing a software certification program (they already have one for drivers, supposedly) that frowns on or utterly fails software which employs undesirable practices like cluttering up the system tray.
The user says, "There are too many things in the Programs menu." Microsoft responds by telling vendors to install programs under submenus which bear the vendor name. It's a horrendous solution. It's the last way anyone would choose to organize anything. No one organizes their books by publisher. Hardly anyone remembers the publisher of most of their books. And indeed, few people remember the publisher of their software.
The user says, "It takes too long to log in." Microsoft responds by showing the desktop before it is "ready"; you can move the mouse, and you can bring up some menus, but they will be forcibly unposted in a few seconds, and attempts to start applications are no faster than they would be if you waited for all the startup items to finish.
The user says, "Windows isn't intuitive, I should be able to know right away how to do things." Microsoft responds with Bob.
There are dozens more examples. The point is that I see Microsoft listening to users, but it is as if Microsoft has no experience with designing usable software, even after all these years. It could well be a case of management paralysis. I don't know the cause, but the symptoms are pretty consistent.
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But I doubt we'd have any interoperability.
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A mono culture of a cheap reliable and highly useable os would quite possibly do more for the image of computing as we know it than what passes for production grade systems these days.
Interoperability issues, the multitude of different windowing environments and the enormous amount of work duplication in the IT branch would better be concentrated on doing it once and doing it well than everybody just doing their own thing because
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much as windows has tried to make us believe otherwise there is a fairly rigidly defined boundary between 'user space' and the operating system proper.
with proper design (microkernels) that boundary can be pushed back another step and that will open up a whole new world of possibilities at a fairly small performance penalty, and a system that feels subjectively much faster.
Re:focus groups and corporate bs (Score:5, Insightful)
re: MS spending on the OS (Score:3, Interesting)
There is nothing "unreal" about NT (Score:3, Insightful)
We can still complain about their illegal and unethical business practises, and of course specific software glitches. But today, their OSes are as real as any other provider.
Nonsense. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:focus groups and corporate bs (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:focus groups and corporate bs (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft licensed it from AT&T and marketed their derivative (which included some BSD enhancements) as Xenix, a full-blown UNIX for 16-bit x86 computers. For a while, it had the majority of the UNIX market share. Xenix was eventually dropped by Microsoft (and sold to the old SCO) when they started developing OS/2.
At the moment, Microsoft are working on Singularity, an OS using type theory as the basis for security (based on similar ideas to the JNode operating system).
Over the last three decades, Microsoft has developed three 'real' operating systems; Xenix, OS/2, and Singularity. They have developed Windows NT, which is quite a nice OS buried under a pile of userspace crap written for backwards compatibility. The closest thing to a real OS that they have been able to sell is NT, and that's because of all the backwards compatibility junk, rather than the strength of the OS.
The moral of the story? You can build a better mousetrap, and the market will decide it's rubbish because it doesn't come in purple.
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Excuse me, but in the past few years that I've seen, Windows has evolved significantly.
And guess what? Usability is hard. Designing good interfaces is hard. It's a fine line, between security and usability - anything that's convenient isn't alwa
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Perhaps these 'millions of people' don't realise they actually have a choice.
Re:Mod Parent Retarded (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps they don't want to realise they have a choice. They aren't like us, computers aren't "fun" for them, they are just a tool. What OS they use has little meaning to them, but they wouldn't want to have to learn another, even if it were better. Having to choose an OS would only confuse and anger them. Sorry, I love Linux as much as the next rabid slashdotter, but people who care about what OS they use are a tiny minority.
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I spent ages trying to switch people too. Now I just show them the 'door' and they are the ones that have to go through it. Linux requires an enthusiastic user if that user is the one who is going to administer it. Its usually easy to set up (Ubuntu) and once its set up it works fine day to day, but like with anything (car
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I wonder how much time mr. AC spent in OS architecture class to get this far in life.
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worked for me
fwiw if I compare the guts of XP with the elegance of unix, plan9 or qnx I still stand by that it plain sucks. API's all over the place, layer upon layer of different ways of doing the same things, every hardware device it's own way of being talked to, security tacked on as an afterthought, applications reaching all the way in to the core os.
Not very pretty to put it mildly.
If you feel like qualitatively defending your