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First Impressions of Sabayon Linux 109

chix4mat writes "Techgage takes a first look at the upcoming Gentoo-based distro 'Sabayon.' It's a feature-filled Live DVD that allows you to install within minutes. Users are treated to a Vista-esque KDE theme, with transparent windows The greatest feature of the distro is the hardware and software support. DVD movies work from the start in addition to audio, bluetooth, WiFi and even XGL."
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First Impressions of Sabayon Linux

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  • Program Naming (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ronkronk ( 992828 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @10:45AM (#15889472) Journal
    Why do so many linux programmers insist on such crazy naming conventions. Sabayon? Changing a perfectly servicable and pragmagic GNOME Meeting to "Ekiga"?

    I use linux both at home and at work, so I'm not some anti-linux zealot or something- I think it's a legitimate question to raise. On my mac laptop, I have a handy app for browsing mDNS networks called Rendezvous Browser (since mDNS was once called Rendezvous).
    The name is simple and describes perfectly what the program does. On the other hand, 90% of the linux applications available have names that look like they were chosen by picking random letters and squishing them together.
    I'm sure that the programmers think they've very clever by choosing a name that means something in some obscure language- or they just thing the name sounds cool- but that simple lack of meaningful names is detrimental. If I start up a GNOME session and want to use network meeting functionality, how is there any possible way that I could guess that "Ekiga" is the application I'm looking for?
    • Re:Program Naming (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Foofoobar ( 318279 )
      My wife has an aversion to Ubuntu because of the name. I tell her it's awesome but she just seems to be hung up on the name. I must admit that the name didn't sell me on the product either but now that I use it, I swear by it.

      Linux could use a good marketing team; grassroots can do alot but good marketing is what pushes it over the edge into the mainstream.
      • Re:Program Naming (Score:4, Insightful)

        by TheViewFromTheGround ( 607422 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @10:56AM (#15889559) Homepage
        Interesting. I think Ubuntu is an okay name, myself. It means something and reflects the software's lineage. All the Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Edubuntu names grate me to no end -- meaningless and cutesy. Why not just call it Ubuntu: Education Edition? The flip side is that Apple, being brilliant, called their operating system "OS TEN", just like they call their mail program Mail and so forth. The Ubuntu project does get this, to some degree, with entries like "Web (Firefox)" in their menus.
      • Re:Program Naming (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Almahtar ( 991773 )
        Ubuntu is the perfect name for the product. Its meaning is a philosophical standard, and one that the project aims to develop as its defining characteristic. Just because the product doesn't have an english name doesn't make its name inferior. English won't be the primary language in most countries in which Ubuntu will be used, so why should this African distrobution adopt an english name?
        • People don't object to that name because it's foreign, they object because it's retarded and pretentious. If you called your distribution 'Humanity' or 'Care for others' or something equally warm and fuzzy, you'd be a joke. Calling it that in a foreign language doesn't make it any less annoying. Besides, it sounds like the name of a coffee; a trait the forum has been quick to adopt and make an in-joke.
        • It's not that it's a foreign name, it's that American consumers dominate what becomes mainstream by having the most purchasing power. Which is why most companies who want major sales gear their products branding to an American test audience. It's not that it's better, it's just who the majority of their purchasers are.

          Now obviously, no one is going to be BUYING Ubuntu (unless they release an Enterprise Edition) but bad marketing can ruin its adoption rate. I mean between 'The Megatron 9000' and 'Ubuntu' I k
          • That's true - Adoption rate in the US is a strategic factor in an OS's success. Not knowing what Ubuntu means (or the fact that, around here (the US), it sounds more like a coffee than an OS) isn't necessarily such a bad thing, though. I don't know about you but the first time I saw the name Ubuntu I thought 2 things:
            1. What a singly unattractive name.
            2. I wonder what it means.

            So I looked up what it meant, and then thought two things:

            1. I was wrong about that name.
            2. I should give this a shot - this sounds
            • Heh. Sounds like me. I did the same thing. But how far do you think the majority of the populace would go after that 'boy, what an unattractive name'. Most people who aren't drawn to something don't bother doing additional research. For instance, that ugly girl or guy in high school. The vast majority of people would not have taken the time to know them no matter HOW awesome they were due to initial appearances.

              I had a friend who made it onto Jeopardy but when Alex Trebek saw the contestants and shook their
    • <notserious>if j00 r n07 1337 3nuff 2 ph1nd 17, j00 |\/|us7 n07 b3 4||0w3d n34r |1nuX</notserious>
    • by Anonymous Coward
      names that look like they were chosen by picking random letters and squishing them together.

      Everyone has that problem with english language. They have more acronyms than regular words.
    • Re:Program Naming (Score:4, Interesting)

      by 6OOOOO ( 600000 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @10:52AM (#15889529) Homepage
      I generally agree with you. On the other hand, though, consider the importance of brand recognition, and distinction from the competition. Imagine if Firefox had been named "Web Browser," or "Web Site Viewer." It might have worked out, but I'm guessing it would have been tough.

      There is definitely something to be said for a unique, even quirky identifier--the software becomes a particular thing to be desired and discussed, instead of a tool to be taken for granted.
      • Re:Program Naming (Score:5, Insightful)

        by digidave ( 259925 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:14AM (#15889679)
        Web Site Viewer is too generic, but Webfox or Fireweb would have been good. Thundermail definitely sounds like a mail client. It's quite easy to take many names from OSS and change them slightly to have broader appeal.

        Konqueror can be Web Konqueror. GIMP can be Gnu Photo. Sunbird can be Sun Calendar.

        MySQL, RadRails and OpenOffice are great names.
        • Fireweb kind of stinks, but otherwise yeah, that is an insightful comment.

          Another possible compromise would just be to make shortcut/launcher menu naming more descriptive: the program itself can be called Firefox or Ekiga if it wants to, so long as its shortcuts indicate its use (and in KDE--probably GNOME as well--that functionality is built in, so that descriptions and program names are separate, and both displayed on menus). That solution doesn't help when you're trying to tell your grandma to download
        • Konqueror can be Web Konqueror. GIMP can be Gnu Photo. Sunbird can be Sun Calendar.
          No offense, but those are awful examples. Konqueror isn't just a web browser; it's a file manager and document viewer too. GIMP actually stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program, so doesn't that fit? Sun Calendar just doesn't sound as good as Sunbird, not to mention all the trademark issues there.
          • Re:Program Naming (Score:4, Interesting)

            by martinultima ( 832468 ) <martinultima@gmail.com> on Friday August 11, 2006 @04:12PM (#15891617) Homepage Journal
            Hell, the Swiss Army Knife is probably the Konqueror of portable blades, if you know what I mean – Konqueror has just about everything except a kitchen sink. (And not to mention it's probably the only browser that can actually embed another browser – just pull up its built-in terminal emulator and run Lynx :-)

            Anyway, getting back on topic – I'm honestly not sure how much of an argument there is here. Generic names like "Internet Explorer" actually tend to cause more confusion in the end – they start associating the blue "E" with the entire Internet, which can get annoying after a while if you know the difference... don't know about GNOME, but I know what KDE likes to do is to provide a generic name/description as well as the program name, so for example, just a couple examples that my own menu lists:

            Firefox (Web browser)
            The GIMP (Image Editor) ...and so on and so forth. Which I think is probably the best way to do it, that way they know what the program is the first time they run it, but if they need help later – or just want to tell their friends, or whatever – they'll know the specific program they like/need help with/etc. and not just a generic name that could potentially turn up thousands of results...

            Anyway, just my 2 cents.
            • I'm not sure about "regular" Gnome, but in Ubuntu I have at least Firefox Web Browser, GIMP Image Editor, Thunderbird (and Evolution) Mail, Ekiga Softphone, Pan Newsreader, Rhythmbox Music Player and even Anjuta IDE and Glade Interface Designer. So, seems like they (whoever they are) like to do it as well.

            • Generic names like "Internet Explorer" actually tend to cause more confusion in the end - they start associating the blue "E" with the entire Internet, which can get annoying after a while if you know the difference.

              I remember Delrina's CommSuite from 1995.

              There is little in 2006 that you can't be done more simply from within the browser or through a browser extension.

            • Actually, Konqueror is probably the most common container for KitchenSync [kde.org] ...
        • Regarding Konqueror, it's actually a great name. Consider this:

          (Netscape) Navigator
          (Microsoft) Explorer
          (KDE) Konqueror
      • Moreover, you can't trademark Web Browser or Web Site Viewer--they're descriptive.

        GNOME Meeting can take its trademark from GNOME, but none of its own. If it splits and becomes dissociated from GNOME, then it needs its own name. Plus people like leaving their mark on a project, especially the name.
    • by ToxikFetus ( 925966 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @10:57AM (#15889565)
      Product Naming Conventions by Platform

      Apple: Prepend 'i' to the product name: iMac, iPod, iBall, etc.
      Windows: Add "Visual," "Explorer," or "Tycoon" to the product name.
      Linux: Prepend 'g', 'k', or 'x' to the product name, depending on whether the product is GNOME-centric, KDE-centric, or non-denominational. Alternately, bang head on keyboard.
    • Microsoft Excel - Obviously the name means that this software will let me excel at something. Maybe it will let me excel at *anything*?!?! My life just got simpler!

      Microsoft Outlook - Hrm, sounds like this may be some soft of lighthouse control software. Either that, or maybe it will predict the future for me! Combined with Excel I will be unstoppable!

      Apple QuickTime - Hrm, sounds like this let's me time-travel using my computer, my making time go faster. Or perhaps it is a timing program for when you are l
      • I don't think the problem is so much that OSS projects aren't named according to their use. I do think they choose bad names at times.

        What's the difference between Ekiga or Sabayon and Excel/Outlook/Quicktime? Language. The latter are all easily-pronounced words, even if they aren't descriptive of the product's function. FireFox falls into this category as well; all the Mozilla project names are easy on the tongue. Even Mozilla is straight-forward, if a bit nonsensical.

        What a lot of people forget is that th
        • What a lot of people forget is that the internet is a world-wide thing. Not all distributions are native to "an English-speaking nation"

          Like... you for one?

          What's the problem pronouncing "ekiga" or "sabayon"? I can tell you that Quicktime and Outlook sound ridiculous in Spanish; still they come from great software companies, so they must be all right, mustn't they?

          Your problem is exactly the one that maintains tons of people within Microsoft realms: whatever you are widely exposed, you feel "natural", anyt
          • What's the problem pronouncing "ekiga" or "sabayon"? I can tell you that Quicktime and Outlook sound ridiculous in Spanish; still they come from great software companies, so they must be all right, mustn't they?

            You didn't read my post, did you? "...if you're going to go to the trouble of translating it to English, it seems to me that it would require relatively little effort to give it an English name as well."

            Substitute any other language for "English" and my point still applies. Quicktime and Outlook coul

      • GDB, GCC, MySQL, OpenLDAP, OpenSSH, etc. are in the "Okay, we understand why we need a TLA/FLA for this.", and in my opinion are better than Visual Studio, Oracle, Microsoft IIS (non-sequitur of a TLA?)

        One piece of vaporware I'd criticize for their naming conventions is E17: let's release 500 projects whose names have nothing to do with their functions aside from their beginning with E. Ecore? Okay. Fine. Evas? I think not. Entice? Way past the line. Ekiga would probably be a viable name if their target ext
      • The problem is not *naming*, it is *branding*.

        No, the problem is *naming*. All those other software names you referenced are either English words ("Excel","Access") or compounds of English words ("PowerPoint","QuickTime"). These are, for English speakers, far superior to foreign or nonsense words like "Sabayan", "Ekiga", or "Xine", which are at best silly and at worst unpronounceable. (Note the success of the English word compound "FireFox".)

      • The name "Outlook" might not be that great. We've been told for years now by our Magic 8 Balls that "Outlook not so good."
    • by Deliveranc3 ( 629997 ) <`deliverance' `at' `level4.org'> on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:23AM (#15889749) Journal
      To the I want it to just work folks.

      These people are devoting their time to making this software, they aren't getting paid.

      I'm sure many of you think they're just crazy hippies but the fact is they have motivations, often political/spiritual for why they want people to have access to this software.

      This will affect how the software is developed, it's unavoidable, and you would do well to spend a little time actually investigating the mindset of the FOSS community.

      These people are giving you certain abilities you didn't have before, that's why you use their software. And they're hoping you won't use those abilities to say steal someone's identity or take away people's jobs... perhaps they are being naive.

      Distro's like Ubuntu have interesting names because they hope you'll check wikipedia before complaining and actually take a look at the philosophy underlying the software they are giving you for free.
      • Re:Program Naming (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Cootey ( 994855 )
        Its all good and well to have a philosophy of naming etc and as you quite rightly state these guys are doing the grunt work for nothing. But the material they produce would "probably" be much more widely used if it had more descriptive naming. Given that this isnt the case in most times in any OS. But if Linux is to be more widely used and seen as the "ducks nutts" for easy operatorability (is that a word !) then it would make it much easier to find a app if they were more intiuatively named. If you dont ha
        • The Linux community is hugely fractured because none of them is clearly better and none of them are ready for the desktop so this whole arguement is moot.

          If the linux community had a distro that was ready for the mainstream that the linux crowd backed and couldn't get acceptance then we would have a problem, but joe sixpack will just call it what everyone calls linux.
          Linux.
    • by greginnj ( 891863 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:26AM (#15889771) Homepage Journal
      You said it, bro!

      Why, on my machine, when I want to create a presentation, I have to use something called 'PowerPoint'. For weeks I didn't touch it because I thought it was some sort of weird ACPI tool, and I was shutting down and rebooting enough that I figured I didn't need it.

      It turns out I also have an email app called "Outlook" which I thought was a weather forecaster. It hasn't worked well; maybe I should switch -- I see there's a faster version called 'Outlook Express'.

      The file system app is called 'Explorer' which is confusingly named the same thing as the web browser.

      There's also this thing called "Access" which, as near as I can guess, is a kind of server that's supposed to give everybody on the internet 'access' to my data.

      Oh, and I have to click on a button labeled 'Start' to shut down ...

    • "Why do so many linux programmers insist on such crazy naming conventions. Sabayon? Changing a perfectly servicable and pragmagic GNOME Meeting to 'Ekiga'?"

      GNOME Meeting may be a perfectly "servicable" and "pragmagic" name to you, but suppose your native tongue were, ah... Finnish?
    • I'm sure that the programmers think they've very clever by choosing a name that means something in some obscure language- or they just thing the name sounds cool- but that simple lack of meaningful names is detrimental. If I start up a GNOME session and want to use network meeting functionality, how is there any possible way that I could guess that "Ekiga" is the application I'm looking for?

      Nerds aren't marketers, and I for one am willing to sacrifice slick names for better apps.

    • Why do so many linux programmers insist on such crazy naming conventions... On my mac laptop, I have a handy app for browsing mDNS networks called Rendezvous Browser (since mDNS was once called Rendezvous).

      And the name of that service changed because they picked a name that meant something and, hence later discovered it had trademark issues. On of my favorite toys is called "SubEthaEdit" but used to be called "hydra." It uses Rendezvous to allow many people to share a text editor with multiple insertion

    • Re:Program Naming (Score:3, Informative)

      by Red Flayer ( 890720 )

      On the other hand, 90% of the linux applications available have names that look like they were chosen by picking random letters and squishing them together.

      Well, sabayon is a real word, from the French (not exactly 'some obscure language') -- it's a sauce made with egg yolks, sugar, and wine. It's very nice on fresh fruit, or desserts that have a little tartness to them. Isn't it nicer to have a product named after a nice sauce than to have one that comes from "alphabet soup"?

      As to Ekiga, there might be s

      • There's nothing wrong with distinct, unique names for products provided you have the advert. $$$ to burn the association between the name and the product into consumers minds.

        If you don't have the money and advertising then you need to be less 'creative' in the naming department such that the name itself describes the product.
        • Re:Program Naming (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Red Flayer ( 890720 )
          If the product is good enough, it won't be a problem.

          There have been thousands of products over the years that succeeded without a descriptive name and without an advertising budget. I would expect this to be even more possible considering the nature of the Linux community and the ease of communication.

          Also, one other thought -- I know several CxOs who think that a descriptive name confers 'generic' (and therefore inferior) status on a product. It implies that you're copying a named product. Would you
    • Re:Program Naming (Score:5, Insightful)

      by misleb ( 129952 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @12:14PM (#15890049)
      I'm sure that the programmers think they've very clever by choosing a name that means something in some obscure language- or they just thing the name sounds cool-


      Or they are just being whimsical can don't really care if the the name is business friendly. Most are just programming for fun. I wholeheartedly support the practice of "strange" naming. If Linux, or more generally, FOSS ever loses its whimsical and 'fun' nature, it'll be dead. Programmers get enough marketting pressure and other business related distractions at work. They don't need to come home to their hobby project and get the same pressure to sell themselves to users.

      but that simple lack of meaningful names is detrimental.


      Detrimental to whom, exactly? If I am developing something for fum, what do I care if a few people who merely object to naming don't use my software?

      If I start up a GNOME session and want to use network meeting functionality, how is there any possible way that I could guess that "Ekiga" is the application I'm looking for?


      The same way you know that your friend "Joe" is the guy with the dark hair, funny nose, and a good sense of humor. Have you ever asked your friend Joe to change his name to something a little more descriptive?

      -matthew

    • Why do so many linux programmers insist on such crazy naming conventions. Sabayon?

      Why is it called "Linux", when it could just as easily be refered to as "Operating System Kernel"?

      • "Why is it called "Linux", when it could just as easily be refered to as "Operating System Kernel"?"

        GNU/OperatingSystemKernel, you mean... /me ducks!
      • "Why do so many linux programmers insist on such crazy naming conventions. Sabayon?"

        "Why is it called "Linux", when it could just as easily be refered to as "Operating System Kernel"?"


        Hmm..OSK? Sounds like an operating system by Kellogs. Would a custom kernel then be called "Special K"?

        Sorry, couldn't resist. :P

        Cheers!

        Strat
    • Why do so many linux programmers insist on such crazy naming conventions. Sabayon?
      [...]
      The name is simple and describes perfectly what the program does. On the other hand, 90% of the linux applications
      [...]
      I'm sure that the programmers think they've very clever by choosing a name that means something in some obscure language- or they just thing the name sounds cool- but that simple lack of meaningful names is detrimental.

      Whatever you think about various program names is fine, but dude... Sabayon is
    • Some famous program names that make little to now sence
      Lotus 1-2-3
      Excel
      Paradox
      Oracle
      Quicken
      Access
      Quattro Pro

      What about the name of Lotus 1-2-3, Excel or Quattro Pro, tell you that they are spreadsheets?
      What about Paradox, Oracle, or Access tell you they are databases?
      What about Quicken tells you it is for finance?

      Oracle, I assume was named after the Oracle of Delphi. Access could be a communications program, video game, or a screen reader.
      Lots of really successful programs have really odd names. It is just
  • Pretty face (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is just a pretty face on top of gentoo.

    You still have to emerge big time every week, wait days, then reconfigure all of your conf files to work with new versions. High maintenance!
    • Re:Pretty face (Score:3, Informative)

      You still have to emerge big time every week, wait days, then reconfigure all of your conf files to work with new versions. High maintenance!
      # etc-update

      Works very nicely. ;-)
    • Re:Pretty face (Score:2, Interesting)

      Rubbish!

      You don't have to emerge anything after installation, though you should stay on top of security alerts. You can easily leave your system alone, Portage just makes it easier to stay up to date in a more or less modular fashion. In other words, you don't have to wait six months and download five CD images to stay current from the bottom up.
  • by Jestrzcap ( 46989 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:03AM (#15889599)
    The question I will attempt to answer when I get home, is:
    Does it allow me to use my WiFi on my laptop without having to do much tweaking. Currently there arent any livecd installers that allow me to browse using WPA while I install (im even having issues with knoppix)
  • by byolinux ( 535260 ) * on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:04AM (#15889608) Journal
    This appears to come with proprietary drivers from ATI and Nvidia.. Can someone confirm or deny this?
    • Since it's Gentoo-based it probably downloads the driver sources and then compiles it. The "installed in a few minutes" just means it can install a basic OS with a compiler and all the sources in a few minutes. After that it has to compile everything so that you can optimize it for your very unique machine so it'll be 0.5% faster than Ubuntu. :-)

      However, of course this means that they can do this all without voiding any license.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Sybian Linux: the first female-user-centric distro.
  • by pridkett ( 2666 ) <slashdotNO@SPAMwagstrom.net> on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:18AM (#15889717) Homepage Journal

    Rule number 1 about naming a project -- do a google search. If something else that might be pretty related comes up pretty easily, you've picked a crappy name. In this case Sabayon is already used as the name for GNOME profile editor [gnome.org]. It seems like this has been around much longer too.

    Rule number 2 about naming a project -- when naming a project, try to get a domain name that reflects the project. I'm confused about how I would know from a URL like http://www.lxnaydesign.net/ [lxnaydesign.net] that it would be about Sabayon linux.

    Remember to play nice boys and girls. And for the Sabayon Linux folks, don't worry, Mozilla [mozilla.com] made the same mistake a few years ago. Clear up the confusion and move on -- it looks like you've got a pretty slick little distro going.

  • by Jarlsberg ( 643324 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:27AM (#15889774) Journal
    For those who don't have a DVD-rom drive, here's the link to the cd version: http://www.lxnaydesign.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4 115#4115 [lxnaydesign.net], torrent: http://www.lxnaydesign.net/gentoo/torrents/RR4-Lin ux-3.0.RC1-miniEdition.torrent [lxnaydesign.net]
  • As a spanish speakers I had to cringe and laugh at "Sabayon" as it pronounced almost identically to sabañón.
    (= Redness, inflammation and ulceration with itching in mostly hands, feet and ears due to cold.)
  • by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Friday August 11, 2006 @11:45AM (#15889885)
    Kororaa had the 3-D drivers already there on the live disk and some fussbody got work on an improved live version stopped [kororaa.org]...
    The main point I want to raise is that we do want to comply, honour and respect the GPL in relation to the Kororaa Project. Currently I am in limbo because no-one seems to be able to confirm the accusations made in the email.

    If we are indeed in violation then on behalf of the Kororaa Project I sincerely apologise to the entire open source world, and will cease distribution of the Xgl Live CD immediately.

    Is anyone out there able to shed some ground breaking light on this issue?

    Although the Xgl Live CD has been halted, we are still working on the next official Kororaa release, 2006. Thank you all for your support.
  • And btw how nice from microsoft to publish the video in wmv (no comment) and mp4 format (unconvertible with ffmpeg).
  • Hello-oh! Someone's sleeping on the job. A hundred messages posted and I still don't see the obligatory

    "Enlightenment had that years ago! That's so 20th century!"

    I'm not being served here.

A triangle which has an angle of 135 degrees is called an obscene triangle.

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