Babylon 5 Coming Back? 359
SaturnTim writes "Babylon 5 fans rejoice! It appears that our favorite space outpost is back. It will be returning soon in a series of direct-to-DVD 20min episodes, each featuring the past of one of our favorite characters."
Babylon 5: The Lost Tales (Score:4, Interesting)
The recent news is Warner Bros. is putting Babylon 5 on iTunes [pocket-lint.co.uk]. That's right, you'll be able to purchase episodes of the sci-fi show on iTunes. Could they promote this service by releasing The Lost Tales a few weeks early on iTunes? I think they could probably garner quite a bit of money from Apple if they were willing to do that.
After all, what better fanbase for Apple to secure than the Babylon 5 tech/trek group? Old nerds with lots of money and few vices. I know some people at work that would buy a video iPod just to have copies of Babylon 5 on their person at all times.
This could probably be a television show that successfully bypasses all traditional forms of distribution which would set huge precedence for weaning the public from the glass teat.
Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales (Score:2)
Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales (Score:2)
Regarding the "few vices", apparently Star Trek is exceptionally popular among pedophiles for some mystic reason.
B5, then again... here the episodes actually aired on saturday nights, of all possible times.
Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, and I thought that my coworkers and I were nerds.
Yes, an "on-demand" portable plastic teat is much more convenient.
Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales (Score:2)
After all, what better fanbase for Apple to secure than the Babylon 5 tech/trek group?
Starship Exeter is already on iTunes, so they probably have the trekkers already. Still, it'd be a cool move.
B5 on iTMS, cropped and cropped again (Score:3, Insightful)
The DVDs were artificially made "wide screen" by chopping off the top and bottom of each frame. You can tell on "Voice of the Resistance" test pattern or the Psi Corps ad on ISN with the frame that flashes "trust the corps". Those were full screen designs for tv and are now cut off.
I watched a sample of an episode on iTMS and it looks like it's the same vertical image as the DVDs but has now been chopped off on the left and right to fit the
Re:B5 on iTMS, cropped and cropped again (Score:4, Informative)
Warner lost the model files. Many conspiracy theories surround this.
The DVD's were made by combining the 16:9 live action footage with CG that was cropped to 16:9, then scaled vertically (to achieve full anamorphic resolution). So scenes that combine live action and CG look a bit weird.
If iTunes is 4:3, it's probably the original broadcast version, where you're missing the sides of the field in live action shots.
(This is an entirely different issue from the first Sci-fi "widescreen" reairing, where they did indeed mess up and just mat out the top and bottom of the original broadcast.)
Alas, Babylon (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the mark of the impact of a series when you mourn the passing of actors on them as if they were your family. Babylon 5 was so well constructed and intricate that the characters had real depth, and you felt like you knew them, and by way of that, the actors. I'm hoping these stories work; I know JMS won't dilute the franchise the wat Star Trek has been reduced to pitiful ruins.
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:2)
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:2)
Like Third Space and Rangers? Heh.
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:3, Funny)
I think you're mistaken his surviving brothers are Zathras, Zathras, Zathras and Zathras.
"Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life. Probably have very sad death. But, at least there is symmetry."
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:2)
who can tell with all that makeup (Score:2)
Re:who can tell with all that makeup (Score:2)
Re:who can tell with all that makeup (Score:2, Funny)
-Eric
Re:who can tell with all that makeup (Score:2)
instantly familiar to me (I soon realized that he was a Romulan captain from ST:TNG).
Maybe the voice helped.
Re:who can tell with all that makeup (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:who can tell with all that makeup (Score:3, Informative)
What JMS should do (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What JMS should do (Score:2)
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:3, Interesting)
That would be "Convictions".
They're called bottle episodes [tvtropes.org] but they're usually done for budgetary reasons. Trap the characters inside a single set (bottle them up) and play them off each other.
A benefit from saving on sets, locations, and FX is that more money can go into the scripted dialog and character development, though this is more of an example of a bottle scene or sit
Re:Alas, Babylon (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this.
*waves* Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?
Not quite 20 minutes. (Score:3, Interesting)
Cashing in (Score:5, Interesting)
disagree. (Score:2)
These short films come across as a writer's dream come true. How many writers could get a studio to basically pay for these types of films? If JMS is successful it might be a whole new market.
Now, the idea of a B5 MMORPG - uh, no thank you. I still want an official space combat simulator out of these people
"Our Favorite Characters" - Your pics? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:"Our Favorite Characters" - Your pics? (Score:2)
Re:"Our Favorite Characters" - Your pics? (Score:2)
Not only did the Vorlon use their telepathic thought push. when you see a vorlon you see only what of them you can interpret. hence why humans see angels, Mimbari see valen, the centari see nothing.
Also the Vorlons had the ability to hide from scanner's(at least early style earth force ones) As shortly AFTER first contact with the mimbari Human telepaths began to be born.
Re:"Our Favorite Characters" - Your pics? (Score:2)
one of the best shows ever (Score:5, Insightful)
It was good stuff. And although the special effects look dated now, at the time, it was amazing to see battles with 100 separate ships on TV - that kinda thing had been reserved for the movies up until then.
Good explanation (Score:2)
Re:Good explanation (Score:2)
Well, I have to agree both with you and the GP. It was a soap opera (space opera), except things moved faster than on your regular soap opera. If you missed 1 or 2 episodes, chances are you would not understand a lot of things that happened. But if you can get your hand on all episodes, and watched them all, you will see the soap opera side of it was quite good.
If it doesn't include Claudia Christian... (Score:5, Funny)
I just realized that I wasted a good bit of 1994+ on that show
Re:If it doesn't include Claudia Christian... (Score:2, Informative)
(Peter Jurasik was in "Winter For The Adept" back in 2000.)
B5 v BG (Score:2, Insightful)
Battlestar Galactica has raised the bar, for me, personally, so high that most other sci-fi fare looks and sounds like scrapings from the bottom of a barrel. I realize and understand that the two shows have completely different themes, styles, etc., but the differences in production values and acting quality are especially marked.
The same goes for Stargate (any version), Firefly, and Enterprise or even the new Dr. Who.
I'm not judging anyone who still likes thos
Re:B5 v BG (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:B5 v BG (Score:2)
I think I must be the only person left on this planet who thinks that BSG is massively overrated. That's not to say it's not good, but I just really can't see why everyone sees it as some kind of Sci-fi messiah.
Nope. You are not alone. I can't even watch it. It is just drivel.
I loved Babylon 5, it was just such a great universe into which I could descend every week or so (travelling kills the "sequencing" of regular shows!!) to try and catch the next element of the overall plot. I can imagine so many stor
Re:B5 v BG (Score:3, Informative)
One of my problems with Battlestar Galactica is that the men and women in the show are depicted as so astonishingly across-the-board stupid, it's tempting to root for the robots. The military officers are stupid; the politicians are stupid; the civilians are stupid. In the pilot,
Re:B5 v BG (Score:3, Funny)
That's called *Realism*.
If we compare a Battlestar to an aircraft carrier running Microsoft software, again, *Realism*.
Re:B5 v BG (Score:2)
Re:B5 v BG (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not. I agree that it's a good show, certainly one of the best sci-fi offerings of recent years, but I don't buy all the "whole new level" stuff.
I think because sci-fi was very tame, good-guys-always-winning fare for so long, some of the recent, more realistic shows like BSG have carried more weight with the viewer. This is partly because the plots are more credible and the characters can present a wider range of emotions, of course, but I reckon it's also -- in part -- simple novelty value. Of course, BSG wasn't the first to do this; indeed, Babylon 5 itself might have a fair claim on that honour.
In any case, playing with Gritty Realism(TM) is not automatically the same as acting well, and other series have had gritty characters, too. Sure, not every sci-fi actor is waiting for their Oscar, but I would put many of those in B5 up against any of the cast of the new BSG when it comes to portraying a character of substance and interest. G'Kar remains, IMHO, the deepest character of any sci-fi show, and the B5 cast as a whole was easily the equal of other good sci-fi shows like Firefly or BSG.
The thing about BSG is that, at least through series one (I'll watch series two when they bring them all out in one DVD box set instead of messing around with half-series) it was almost all pain and suffering and grief and loss. Where was the light relief, the inspirational breakthrough, the hope, the joy? I remember one scene, at the end of one episode, when a very significant number is increased by one, and that's about it.
Having a plot that involves loss and suffering may bring more credibility, but it can be just as one-dimensional as the good-guys-always-winning if not handled well: credibility is not the same as killing off major characters indiscriminately or using the threat of wiping out the whole human race as your primary plot device. Some of the most moving episodes of Babylon 5 involved tragic fates for noble characters, but none of them was sacrificed randomly; compare and contrast with what happens in Firefly/Serenity (remember to mark those spoilers if you're replying). And of course, Babylon 5 was ultimately a story of hope, while BSG to date is more a story of survival without hope.
So yes, BSG is a good series, and by TV sci-fi standards it's one of the best. But based on the first series, I think it's too negative and one-dimensional in its approach so far, and in that respect it has a lot to learn from classics like Babylon 5.
Re:B5 v BG (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:B5 v BG (Score:2)
Re:B5 v BG (Score:2)
They're changed enough that they don't resemble the originals in their campy cliche roles, which is not neccesarily a bad thing, but there's nothing there to make me actually care
Up until the last few episodes (Score:2)
For continuity B5 still wins. For logic B5 still wins.
Some of the things that happened in BSG did so because the writer needed them to happen, listening to the podcasts it was clear that they knew they could not back it up or seemed wrong - they had a story and damn if anything got in the way.
Yet the show was still enjoyable, up until the recent episodes which seem to be just a little to contrived.
BSG is experiencing the rabid fanboi surge all good show
Re:B5 v BG (Score:2)
The same goes for Stargate (any version), Firefly, and Enterprise
Yeah, I see your point.
or even the new Dr. Who.
Die, heretic!!!!!111!!!!one!!
Er, but seriously, the new Dr. Who has among the best writing on TV these days. So does Firefly. (And the old Dr. Who, but I digress.) They're all shows worth watching. (But I gave up on Enterprise a long time ago and never even started Stargate so I won't comment on them.)
I agree that BG is an amazing SF show, but it has its own failings.
Re:B5 v BG (Score:3, Insightful)
Why were the Klingons in the original serie
I can only say one thing... (Score:2)
You have Star Wars, I think they were considering Star Trek: Junior Hi... eh, Starfleet Academy. As if Enterprise wasn't bad enough where they jumped way past the TOS technology in half a season. In fact there already was a B5 spin-off TV series (Crusade) that had a lot more potential.
Prepare for dissapointment (Score:2)
Bear in mind that, at the time, the only other Sci-Fi on Tv was Star Trek: The Next Generation. That was not a good show. So B5 didn't exactly have to work much to stand out as the best thing on TV.
It performed a function of breaking the Star Trek stranglehold. It showed people sci-fi could have more depth. But compared to some of what came after (Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, new Dr. Who) it is nothing special.
Its like people saying Citizen Kane w
Re:Prepare for dissapointment (Score:2, Insightful)
Since new, why not better? (Score:2)
But these new episodes are written in todays world, where viewers and writers have seen Battlestar galactica, and good quality computer effects are cheaper and more impressive than ever. There is no reason to think we might see improvement both in story and in cinematography, and
Re:Prepare for dissapointment (Score:5, Insightful)
The main thing fans usually praise about B5 is the incredible story arc. Four seasons planned ahead from day 1. It's impressive. But B5 had something I find even more important, the same thing that made Firefly great before Whedon ruined it: Characters and the way they interacted.
The best example, I think any B5 fan will agree, had to be the chemistry between Andreas Katsulas(R.I.P.) (G'Kar) and Peter Jurasik(Londo). But there were very few poor characters. Walter Koenig as Bester makes you want to punch him in the mouth, but that's because he's SUPPOSED to. Ivanova's monologues on C&C were always good for a wry grin ("No boom today. Boom tommorow. ALWAYS Boom tommorow.") Maybe I'm just fanboying, but I even found Bruce Boxleitner to be an excellent choice for Sheridan.
Re:Prepare for dissapointment (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, if you ignore DS9, Voyager, Stargate: SG-1, Earth 2, Space: Above and Beyond, and a bunch of others that most of us have forgotten by now. In fact, TNG only overlapped B5 by what, one year?
dissapointed (Score:2)
Re:dissapointed (Score:2)
"Actually I'm kind of pissed at the new Doctor Who. Not having any Daleks or any Time Lords (besides the Doctor of course) pretty much kills my two favorite races. I'm informed they can't really not have any more Dalek episodes though, after all, the man does travel through time and the Daleks are his greatest enemy. He's bound to run into Daleks in the past."
*cough*
I'm saying nothing :)
Re:dissapointed (Score:2)
So you missed the last 2 episodes of the recent series then?
And the last episode of the first series?
The daleks aren't going anywhere... there's scope f
Re:dissapointed (Score:2)
Re:dissapointed (Score:2)
After thinking about it for a while though I've decided the Time Lords really weren't much of a loss. Only the Master was really interesting and I'm not too sure they could find a good actor to play him even if they did conjure an excuse to ressurect him (not that I'm thrilled with the new Doctors
Babylon 5 was okay (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Babylon 5 was okay (Score:2, Insightful)
I absolutely worshipped Space A&B when I was a teenager, thought it was the best (albeit the shortest-lived) sci-fi show around. Recently I leeched a few of the episodes and found it dated, with simplistic themes and wooden acting. Characters I cared about in my youth now seem banal.
As others have posted, it's probably a reflection on some of the truly brilliant sci-fi we've had in the last few years (my two cents: Farscape, Firefly, SG, BSG).
For Babylon 5 (Score:5, Insightful)
One episode doesnt give you any reason to be addicted, two gives you something, after three episodes you cant wait to see fourth, after fourth you find yourself thinking how PPG's really work, after fifth you have lost the count.
Think about a show that has 110 episodes + pilot, where each and every episode are somehow connected. And I dont mean only those episodes that comes in a row, for example 18,19 and 20 would be connected, but I also mean episodes 8 and 75, 53 and 106... 106 and 75... 75 to each and every episode... etc... That is why I love this show, it only gets better more you watch it.
After few episodes you can see the unavoidable faith of Babylon 5 and how the show is going to end, and that I think is the point of the story. You are given certain hints about the future, but you cant know whether it is true or not, or is it even possible.
It is your job to find out.
When the story continues, more hints are brought up, more moving parts inside machinery, more fire to the wheel. And most of all, you can see how the actions in the past had a consequence in the future (Or in the past...:).
In series finale, you will realise how wrong you were time to time, and how great journey this series was. For the last minutes you can only cry for two reasons, because it is over, or just because you want to.
Go get the DVD's, this show is definitely worth it.
Sci-Fi That's Better (Score:5, Insightful)
What hurt shows like ST: Voyager, Enterprise and so many others is that they let the exec interfere with the creative process. Fox wanted more sex on Voyager so they brought in Seven-of-Nine, though Jeri Ryan proved that she was more than just a nice set of boobs and was actually a very good actress. Oh, and don't get me started with T'Pal on Enterprise. She was a good actress also but she was cast for the role because she was top heavy. I'm not saying sex in Sci-Fi isn't bad, but its when the focus of the show is to show off some babe in a skin tight body suit I'd rather watch the Playboy channel. I want my sci-fi shows to have depth, and I'm not alone in this. Sadly, too many media execs think they know what we want even then we tell them what we want. Case in point; the fans demanded for a series featuring Sulu as the captain of the Excellceor, but they gave everyone Enterprise because that is what the execs thought was what was best for the fans rather than listening to what the fans asked for. They're doing it again with the new Star Trek movie. Yes, they are going ahead with the Starfleet Academy things where a young Kirk meets Spock at the academy.
I also agress that Dr. Who was a great series. It is on record, with Guiness, as the longest running Sci-Fi TV series in history. Despite have an almost non-existant budget the producers of the series were still able to tell provocative stories which were sometimes totally unheard of in TV Sci-Fi. The new series does follow a similar formula though I'm disappointed a little by the fact that they dumped the serialization of the episodes.
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
With apologies to Star Trek fans everywhere, I agree.
Re:Woot! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
B5 did have very good story telling, though I wish the FX, posting and acting was better. Most of the CG was rendered in 60fps interlaced rather than 24fps progressive telecined, so it looks downright awful on a progressive display or computer, deinterlacers don't help either. In "Comes The Inquisitor" the Captain's audio says "East" when his mouth is saying "West", and that was so obvious to me on first pass. The Star Trek series had much easier to wa
Re:Woot! (Score:4, Insightful)
As for "Comes the Inquisitor," JMS acknowledged [midwinter.com] that he had a braino. His words:
That kind of commitment is what made B5 great. Not to mention the fact that JMS essentially blogged about the show long before that word could have been invented, since there wasn't even a WWW yet. He took fan feedback from the blog, and incorporated it into the show. That's a rarity, even today. Voting people off a TV show doesn't even come close to the level of interaction JMS had with the B5 fanbase.I disagree (Score:2)
Your opinion is highly illogical.
Re:I disagree (Score:2)
Your opinion is highly illogical. ;)
Dammit Spock, don't quote logic to me... I may be a good ole country doctor, but I know what I like...
Re:I disagree (Score:3, Funny)
Quite simply Doctor, I examined the comparison from all angles, and it was plainly pointless.
Logic informed me that under the circumstances, the only logical conclusion for your opinion would have to be one of confusion.
Logical decision, logically arrived at.
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Re:Woot! (Score:5, Informative)
I have the entire box set of all seasons, and I still enjoy watching it from the start. Time and time again I spot something, some subtle hint, puzzling comment, even a look from a character in reaction to something seemingly harmless, only to realize "oh
I rather doubt these new minis will be very good, as most of the time such similar minis are almost worthless, but I'll probably still watch them, if nothing else than to revisit the past. I'm sure they willl continue to backfill missing or mysterious plot elements from the original series with these new additions, and that alone should be worth the watch.
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
4. Season 5 was something of a surprise.
Unfortunately, it shows.
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
The ending for season 5, now that was a good one. The best for any series I've ever seen, SciFi or not.
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Actually, it wasn't the studio saying "you're ratings suck, see ya." Of all the shows on the PTEN network, B5 was actually doing okay. It was PTEN itself that was in danger of going bust.
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Re:Woot! (Score:2)
Nope, they only had the first season written, since back then they had no idea whether the series would be successful enough to justify funding for the rest. Then on, they only wrote storylines for the oncoming season. It's only when they had finished shooting the fourth season that they got the surprise (and late) approval for a fifth season, which explains it pretty much s
Re:Woot! (Score:4, Insightful)
Science Fiction folks need to understand that there have only been a half dozen SF series worth criticizing. Babylon 5 was certainly one of the best SF series, but when you consider the number of excellent mainstream TV shows, such as Hill Street Blues (which Babylon 5, like so many ensemble shows, owes much of its structure to) it has to compete with, which were both stunningly well planned and executed, B5 pales in comparison.
Yes, B5 had a five year story arc, but when it had to be compressed into four years it suffered badly. They then cobbled together a lackluster fifth season. Better shows have developed arcs which could cope with being axed after the first year or running indefinitely. And Babylon 5's pace was glacial for much of its first three seasons.
These 20 minute shows could be good, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I doubt they started out pitching for a 20 minute direct to DVD project; so this is a TV series pitch that they couldn't sell.
Re:Woot! (Score:3, Informative)
Well -- and I say this as the person who runs the most popular B5 fansite on the net [midwinter.com] -- that's only true if you limit yourself to American TV. Asian TV has been doing huge but limited-run serial dramas for decades, well before B5.
I remember when B5 was on the air and I mentioned the whole "story arc" thing to a Singaporean coworker. He looked at me like I was crazy: "So? Half the shows back home are like that." Since
Re:Woot! Kosh - Entil'Zha (Score:2)
Back when the pilot first aired, that line was not in there. After TNT picked up the show for season 5 and commisioned the movie "In the Beginning", JMS and company went off and did a special-edition jobby to the pilot. Mostly SFX tweaks, but that line was one that was added.
I can't wait for volume 15 of the B5 script books so that I can read the whole storyline if Sinclair had stayed. Yeah, I know. Geek.
B5? Excuse Me? X-Files (Score:2)
Re:B5? Excuse Me? X-Files (Score:2)
Seriously, while X-Files had some interesting episodes it also had terribly bad episodes like the one where Mulder is somehow absorbed by a VR system when the hologram projector "un-draws" him, and then Scully has to go all "Ridley" on the computer to save him. The worst thing is the episode was written by William Gibson (of "Neuromancer" fame), and that's exactly the episode he wanted to make, and that's just the tip of the iceberg of what is wrong with
Watching scifi for the acting... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Watching scifi for the acting... (Score:2)
Re:Watching scifi for the acting... (Score:2)
Insightful comment on the hidden quality of scifi acting?
Banal association of the assumption of bad scifi acting and poorly written playboy articles?
The difference is, of course... (Score:2)
Unless your point is that B5's only redeeming feature was 5 of horrible plastic-looking CGI.
In any case, there is a difference between "horrible" and "passable". B5 is clearly in the former camp. I don't watch Sci-Fi for the acting, but if it's that bad, it's just plainly unwatchable.
Re:Wow. I wonder... (Score:2)
Perhaps not. Just part of the first season, and intermittant episodes after that. With the exception of the guy who played Garibaldi, everyone else had the screen presence of a 2x4. God, even Jeremy Iron's performance in "Dungeons and Dragons" was good in comparison.
so you're saying that Andreas Katsulas, Mira Furlan and Peter Jurasik couldn't act.
I have no idea who they are, but if they were in any episodes I saw, then no, they couldn't (unless
Re:I can still dream, can't I? (Score:2)
Best guesses why SciFi didn't want Firefly:
1) Production costs were too high.
2) Production costs weren't unreasonable for a show of this type, but SciFi didn't have the money for another series with this kind of costs. Please keep in mind that Battlestar Gallactica has little in the way of "eye candy", which really helps to keep i
Re:I can still dream, can't I? (Score:2)
As for #3, I think that may also have been in part thanks to sites like savewash.com (no link, since it's been replaced by domain squatters) that leaked info from sneak peeks and previews. Gods know, I wish I'd seen the site before the movie. (Rant about that part of the movie omitted.)
OT :Re:I can still dream, can't I? (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought it showed real balls. Good likable character eats it at the triumphant moment, Impressed me. Wouldn't have had the same impact if it had been the Doc. (my wife was wishing him dead the whole movie)
To the grandpar
Re:What about Andreas Katsulas? (Score:2)
Re:US only :/ (Score:2)
Re:US only :/ (Score:2)