Apple Releases Shake 4.1, Drops Price To $499 110
chasingporsches writes "Today, Apple released the long-awaited Universal Binary version of Shake, their high-end compositing application. Its new version is 4.1 and is available from their online store or as a crossgrade from version 4.0 for $49. The price of Shake has been dropped significantly, from $2999 to $499. (Educational version is $249.) The minimum system requirements imply that this could run on any new Mac, including the iMac, Mac mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook, as well as older PowerPC-based Macs."
Nice price drop (Score:1, Redundant)
Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
Part of the requirement for being part of the elite is to *act* like a member of the elite. Don't apologize; indeed, you haven't. But if you want to graduate to the elite of the elite, you need to stop waving your elite membership card around. For that is what separates the truly elite from the merely elite; the truly elite, the super elite if you will, know it shows and have no need to impress their eliteness upon the lower classes.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a 1337 thing, it's a business thing. When powerful software gets into the hands of the untrained, the trend seems to be that it lowers the value of the services of people who do know what they are doing.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that people will get a chance to use Shake (and software like it). But look at the trend in the design world. As the barrier to entry is lowered, so is the quality of work as well as the value of that work (over the entire industry).
I can't tell you how many times I've heard agencies say "We don't need to use a post house, we have Final Cut Pro now." Only they can't attract the tallent or experience that a post house has. Taken one step further, there was a client of an agency we work with who decided to get FCP and some cameras and drop the agency all together. Only now their commercials are stuck with a 4-year-old campaign (that's starting to look dated), their tallent looks like he's aged about 15 years because of poor lighting, and the editing and graphics are lacking.
I'm not saying the price drop in Shake is entirely bad, just that it will bring in more people who think they know what they're doing, when really they have no idea. And suddenly the professionals who have been using it for quite some time look like they're gouging their clients because some kid in his mom's basement can get the same tools.
Oh, and to anyone who says "Hey, your business model should be changing to fit the market." That's not the issue, it's that the market thinks our services should be cheaper because Timmy, the VP's nephew can do the same thing because he has a computer with FCP/Shake/Photoshop/whatever. They for some reason don't realize that experience and training go a long way.
Re:Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
i don't agree with you
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Re:Yes (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure any dickhead can pirate a copy of CS2 and diddle around with some layouts. Put an an art school graduate with an illustration and design background behind the same computer and wow what a differnce! They understand color, typography, composition, etc. There are lots of garage albums recorded in shitty studios that somehow tranc
Re:Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
1. They get what they pay for.
2. They kid in his mom's basement will be just as good as the professionals (if not better) in 5-10 years.
3. Competition is good.
Now go beat the pants those kids.
Re:Yes (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:2)
The kind of clients you want understand how this works. I pay the bills supporting linux-based stuff, which is Free.
Re:Yes (Score:1)
Hey, this is Timmy in mom's basement. I just got another one of your clients. Nyah nyah nyah! Neener neener neener!
Quality, support, marketsize == high prices (Score:2)
I'm all for lowering barriers to entry, and decent software at cheap prices is a great thing for the masses (many of whom learn on pirate copies anyway). But I doubt this move will be welcomed by the major studios.
It costs a lot of programmer time to develop decent software, especially complex apps like this. And the smaller your target market, the higher the cost per copy, simple as that. Basic economies of scale.
Now add to that the cost of in-depth technical support for each of your customers - not ju
Re:Quality, support, marketsize == high prices (Score:1)
Did you read the memo? (Score:3, Interesting)
Read this post [slashdot.org] (also here [fxshare.com]). I quote: "Apple will no longer be selling maintenance for Shake and no further software updates are planned".
Apple will not be making the base product more stable, they're dropping it completely, in favour of some future product (apparently due around 2008). While the price drop will doubtless expand the market into the low end in the short term, the high-end users started their move away from Shake the moment Apple bought it (at least, those that wanted to keep running Linux a
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nice price drop (Score:3, Insightful)
...and to think, you were marked as "friend."
See my post above. If people know what they are doing, great! We need more tallent out there. The issue comes in when people think that a tool makes the artist; when people think "hey, I can get Shake now. That's all I need!" and never follow up with either getting training, or getting beyond the basics and labeling themselves as composite artists/designers/editors.
Let's move the example a little closer to home. Take web design. It is very cheap to design and
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Thanks for saying what i was about to (Score:1)
Re:Nice price drop (Score:2)
Re:Nice price drop (Score:2)
Combustion is $1K... and a great deal better than Shake.
No Frozen CPU (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:it would finish before it loaded (Score:2)
Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:5, Informative)
* 1GHz (or faster) Pentium III, Pentium 4, or AMD Athlon processor or faster
* Fedora Core 4
* 512MB (or more) of RAM
* 1GB hard disk space for disk cache
* Workstation-class graphics card, such as NVIDIA Quadro2 or Quadro4
* Display with 1280-by-1024-pixel resolution and 24-bit color
* Three-button mouse
Well, it runs on Fedora Core 4, but whatever.
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:1)
One button mixed message (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:One button mixed message (Score:2, Insightful)
No, you are confused. The iMac comes with a one-button mouse that can click two ways depending on where your fingers are. The MacBook comes with a one-button trackpad that can click two ways depending on where your fingers are.
Re:One button mixed message (Score:3, Informative)
Re:One button mixed message (Score:1)
Re:One button mixed message (Score:1)
Re:One button mixed message (Score:2, Informative)
Right you are (Score:2)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:2)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:2)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:2)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:4, Interesting)
But still, there's a huge incentive to switch away from Linux to Mac render farms, Shake supports distributed rendering through QMaster, which AFAIK only runs on Mac, and is totally free. I've seen hacks to use QMaster to manage Linux Maya render farms, but I believe that's because the Maya renderer specifically wrote hooks to QMaster even on their Linux clients. And you still need license management on large Maya render farms. Nobody gives out free render farm licenses.. except Apple's QMaster.
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:5, Insightful)
No they didn't. And, really truly it doesn't matter. The price drop here is to try to attract users of other software, like Autodesk Discreet Flame or the Avid DS-Nitris [avid.com]. The former runs about $80,000 for a full workstation and the latter is $125,000.
Apple here is unbundling render farm licenses and providing potential users with a look-see that is designed to sell Macintosh computers. The Mac version works better with Apple's Motion, so you can see that this is being marketed at the hobbyist and the very small studio with lots of time to render (on one machine, rather than a farm).
The high end motion picture and feature people who are working at film resolution totally don't care about a relatively minor price drop like this. They're willing to pay what they're willing to pay to get their job done. Is it cheaper than film processing? Yes? OK, let's invest. They don't care if it's cheaper now, they care that their visual effects artist knows the application. And they'll be buying whatever their VFX artist knows (and recommends).
So you can see this in two ways:
Apple is selling hardware by reducing the Mac-only cost.
Apple is trying to seed more people who know the application into the stream of up-and-coming VFX artists
Either way looks good for Apple.
Disclosure: I use Avid's DS-Nitris for compositing for a national television network in the United States.
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:3, Insightful)
You are 100% right that Apple's strategy is to sell more boxes. They create killer applications and sell them in a manner that will encourage the purchase of more Macs.
With Shake you are not going to sit down with a client behind you in the room and interactively change around your composite while the client makes comments, viewing changes on a broadcast monitor.
I disagree that Shake is never used in a facility with someone looking over one's shoulder. Art Directors insinuate themselves into every proce
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:2)
Certainly when a new Xserve comes out with the fastest Intel processors, I expect that to change and see more Apple gear in render farms.
D
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:5, Informative)
Apple purchased Shake's creator [slashdot.org] and dropped the Windows version but kept the Linux version, at least for now.
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Yes, it runs (on) Linux! (Score:1)
Shake? (Score:3, Funny)
Market share not profits (Score:5, Insightful)
So Aperture got a price reduction, Shake has just dropped through the floor, and the machines are competitively priced... I was quoting "old" and "new" above because the guard hasn't really changed, but it seems the rules of engagement have been given a bit of a shake-up. I like the "new" Apple better, bodes well for things to come
Simon
Re:Market share not profits (Score:2)
Re:Market share not profits (Score:2, Interesting)
That said, it also seems to be Apple's modus operandi to put powerful software into as many hands as
Re:Market share not profits (Score:1)
They still sell Logic Pro [apple.com] for a cool grand. So even though Garage Band might have been a direct result of acquiring Logic they didn't kill the premium product. Just the Windows version, if I remember correctly.
Misread (Score:5, Funny)
Misread this as a composting application. I knew you mac boys like to think different, but my ten dollar garbage can, month old table scraps and watering can are more than enough for this type of job.
Re:Misread (Score:4, Funny)
Well, if you consider the number of shitty movies Hollywood produces each year, I'm sure enough of them passed through Shake in post-production that "composting application" is right.
Re:Misread (Score:3, Funny)
Look, I know that Dell of yours is over a year old, but that's still no reason to call it nasty names.
No, not MacBook. (Score:2, Informative)
MacBook doesn't have that.
it'll run... (Score:2)
Re:No, not MacBook. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No, not MacBook. (Score:2)
Re:No, not MacBook. (Score:2)
Shake is used by a number of visual effects houses (Score:2)
Here's the more interesting internal email... (Score:5, Informative)
software updates are planned as we begin work on the next generation of
Shake compositing software. While we're excited about the innovations we can
bring in the future, we understand you have a business to run today that
requires Shake. To that end, we will provide all Maintenance customers with
the following three options:
A. Customers can continue with end-user e-mail support, as well as SDK
support for the duration of their Maintenance contract.
B. Customers may elect to cancel their Maintenance and receive a pro-rated
refund for the unused portion. Existing software licenses would continue to
function according to the Software License Agreement. Maintenance customers
that wish to cancel their contract must do so by July 23, 2006.
C. Additionally, Maintenance customers may choose to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code for $50,000. The Source Code license includes a 5,000 seat
volume license of Shake 4.1. This offer is designed to help facilities with
significant Shake investments maintain a reliable and controllable visual
effects pipeline. Maintenance customers that wish to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code must do so by July 23, 2006. Apple reserves the right to refuse
any maintenance customer source Code access.
I like shake, but it's never really fit in amongst the other Apple apps. But to EOL it for their (rumored) own app seems short-sighted. It's more likely people will migrate to Nuke [d2software.com] in the meantime, which has jumped ahead while Apple has mostly let shake wither on the vine.
A year since version 4, and we've got bug-fixes and an universal binary. Whee.
-b
Nuke in the meantime, which has jumped ahead (Score:2)
Re:Nuke in the meantime, which has jumped ahead (Score:2)
Nuke doesn't support proxies? (Score:2)
Re:Nuke doesn't support proxies? (Score:2)
-b
Re:Nuke doesn't support proxies? (Score:2)
Re:Nuke doesn't support proxies? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nuke doesn't support proxies? (Score:2)
Re:Nuke doesn't support proxies? (Score:1)
It had a major rewrite with version 5, including a huge scripting overhaul, and a full 3D subsystem.
Poseidon... (Score:2)
Still, it sounds like Digital Fusion has improved. I'll probably bump into it again some time soon.
Re:Here's the more interesting internal email... (Score:3, Informative)
Beg your pardon?
Re:Here's the more interesting internal email... (Score:2)
-b
Re:Here's the more interesting internal email... (Score:1)
Re:Here's the more interesting internal email... (Score:2)
They have Gavin and most of the original combustion team. To believe that all those guys can do in the years they've been at apple is what we've seen seems pretty pessimistic.
-b
Re:Here's the more interesting internal email... (Score:2)
It's a great package -- we just happily spent $20K to get a bunch of licenses to finish up Fast and Furious 3.
Thad Beier
Re:How does it compare to free alternatives? (Score:2)
Re:How does it compare to free alternatives? (Score:2)
Linux is their biggest market. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Linux is their biggest market. (Score:2)
Re:No Justification (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's look again at your "no possible way to justify" bullshit statement. If I develop a game, say Sims 2, I might sell a couple of million copies. At 50 bucks a copy, that's a healthy profit. If I develop, say, a motion compositing program used by animators and effects people, there might only be a couple of thousand people who even have any desire to use such functionality. I need to charge a lot more money to even recoup the costs of writing the software, let alone making a profit.
Economics of scale is a bitch.
Re:No Justification (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure there is, it's called "the market."
If people are willing to pay that price, it's justified.
Even at 500 dollars, I will just go and download it on mininova.
You're not their target market. I don't really think they care if you download it, since all it's likely to do is influence your buying decisions in the future (you or someone like you). However, a production studio of any size and legitimacy would not risk their entire business just to save $500 or $3000 on software.
Expensive software is exactly why people pirate stuff anyway. Why dont people learn this?
Why should they have to "learn this" when they are making money selling it at the prices they choose?
Just because you can't afford it or won't pay it doesn't mean no one's buying it.
Typical Slashdot user myopia. "If I'm not doing it, no one is!"
If you sell your stuff cheaper, people will actually BUY it.
Yeah, why not give it away for free and make your profits up in volume?!
Re:No Justification (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm staring down a possible (though not likely...we'll lease) $170,000 bill for a full suite of Cadence Allego apps.
Oh if only it was only "3 Grand."
Re:No Justification (Score:4, Insightful)
Expensive software, at least the kind that people use to make money with, is expensive for the most part because the seller is trying to capture some fraction of the revenue you will make from using it. If you are downloading it from mininova you most likely aren't trying to make a buck off it. In that case, a smart vendor probably looks the other way at that kind of piracy because it increases the user base at no real cost.
Re:No Justification (Score:3, Informative)
And yet, there are very few pirates.
Re:No Justification (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would you do that? You clearly don't know what Shake is, or who uses it, or why it costs what it does. What use would you have for it?
Low price does not prevent piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
That is complete nonsense. People will pirate if they can do so easily. It is as simple as that. As you make piracy more complicated, sales rise. That is why there is a thriving successful industry offering software copy protection even though the security is easily defeated by a small number of more technically capable users. The latter are irrelevant.
An example. I once worked on commercial software that was bundled with a college textbook. It was well regarded software used in the industry. We were nice and didn't use copy protection. The academic version was US$15 with the coupon shrinkwrapped to the textbook. At numerous campus bookstores the software sales volume was 10% of the book despite being required for classwork. The next quarter we had an upgraded version and used one of the lowest cost software based security products available. The sales volume increased to 90% that of the book despite there being no shortage of crack programs. Sorry, but low price doesn't work, copy protection software does.
Re:No Justification (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Insightful! (Score:1)
Re:Universal? Why??? (Score:2, Insightful)