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Previewing Dapper And Edgy 144

Frank Clarkson writes to mention a ZDNet article about the upcoming release of 'Dapper Drake', Ubuntu Linux. They also give a mini-preview of Eft. From the article: "'I'm promising to impose (almost ;-) ) zero from-the-top requirements for Edgy, this release is entirely up the to development team to envision and implement,' he wrote. 'Almost everything that lands in Edgy will be driven from the development team, who get to play with whatever new technologies they fancy along the way. So that should give us a nice big bump in infrastructure and bling.'"
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Previewing Dapper And Edgy

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  • by nizo ( 81281 ) * on Friday April 21, 2006 @06:41PM (#15177889) Homepage Journal
    ...for Edgy, this release is entirely up the to development team to envision and implement...

    So then can we assume this will be the long desired porn-centric distro we have all been waiting for?

  • multiarch future? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by scragz ( 654271 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @06:41PM (#15177893) Homepage
    From TFA, on possible Eft features:
    ". . .a first flirt with multiarch (multiple architecture) support for true mixed 32-bit and 64-bit computing on AMD64. . ."

    I sure hope this happens; then I can finally switch back to 64-bit mode. I know about the chroot and all that fanciness but it's too much of a hassle.
    • I sure hope this happens; then I can finally switch back to 64-bit mode

      I sure hope this happens, so that I can finally have Macromedia Flash player and WMV decoding working on my AMD64 system. Two things I thought I'd never miss, but am finding it a pain to live without.
      • Re:multiarch future? (Score:4, Informative)

        by Fallingcow ( 213461 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @08:18PM (#15178392) Homepage
        IIRC, this means that Firefox (or your browser of choice) and, more significantly, any multimedia programs that need to do WMV decoding will have to be compiled for 32-bit mode.

        This removes much of the incentive for using 64 bit on the desktop, as the biggest speedup will be seen in multimedia apps.

        It's still better than nothing, of course.
      • I run an amd64 setup , and have setup up a 32bit dchroot, for running mplayer + w32codecs and firefox (32bit).
        I found some instructions on the ubuntu forums on how to do this.
    • I'm tired of Gentoo running Enemy Territory perfectly in a 64bit environment, it really is about time Ubuntu (/Debian) pulled their socks up and got the 64bit ditro up to speed. I want a desktop and games, not hours of compiling stuff, damnit :(
      • by moro_666 ( 414422 ) <kulminaator@gmai ... m minus language> on Saturday April 22, 2006 @05:07AM (#15179659) Homepage

        I want a desktop and games, not hours of compiling stuff, damnit :(


        so why exactly did you touch gentoo ? :p

        you need 64 bits so badly that you can't live without it ? i run my turion laptop happily in 32bit mode for now (currently with ubuntu), since the `rest` of the world hasnt really gained up on the bitcout yet.

        runnning in 64-bit mode doesn't make your machine really stellar or ultrafast, one of the biggest differences that you can make for now, is to get a 32-bit linux and get packages compiled for your machine. (gentoo 32-bit would do aswell)

        i ran some purely experimental tests here, comparing the speed of math in code compiled for i386 (ubuntu style) versus code compiled for k8 (a 'la gentoo) , now the difference in speed was enormous. if you multiply the math speed differences with the delay/lag/latency that is created while you are using the desktop interface (x-server with it's pipes and sockets, font servers, etc.), you'll get a pretty big bang.

        ps. for the furious supporters of i386 compilings, ofcourse compiling every app for k8 isn't necessary, but it's time we get some other stuff than libc to i686 at least. why use ~60-70% of the cpu power that we have ? (holding back at least 80% of users from utilizing their cpu in favour of the remaining ... just give the i386 dudes the source and let them compile it themselves and let's get done with this).

        • (holding back at least 80% of users from utilizing their cpu in favour of the remaining ... just give the i386 dudes the source and let them compile it themselves and let's get done with this).

          Or how about libraries that step down on lower processors? It'd be perhaps expensive to implement in every application, but if the libraries themselves had it then it wouldn't be quite so bad. At boot time it could start, test the waters, and implement the highest processor features that a) the boot loader/ker

  • dapper and edgy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rayde ( 738949 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @06:47PM (#15177928) Homepage
    i'm certainly looking forward to Dapper Drake in June, but I bet I'm not alone in being more excited for Edgy. I think a lot of us are looking forward to a stable implementation of XGL to "just work," because we understand this simple and unnecessary eye-candy could be just what we needed to convince some regular people to give Linux a try.
    • Re:dapper and edgy (Score:3, Informative)

      by fimbulvetr ( 598306 )
      Personally, I'm very glad they got network-manager in there. Right after feature freeze was when NM was updated to the point where it supported WPA to the point where it was acceptable for Dapper. We had to beg and plead to get NM in after FF, but they finally caved in due to some hard work by some people.

      For the past ~2 months, with NM, I've had the most enjoyable (Computer related:)) docking/undocking ever. It's so nice to be able to undock and walk out to the balcony and soak up some sun & computer w
    • Re:dapper and edgy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by zaguar ( 881743 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @07:34PM (#15178216)
      I have to disagree - XGL is not "simple and unnecessary eye-candy". There are some _very_ useful things in there. The expose clone, for one. This is a _great_ feature of of OS X, and now it is "simple and unnecessary"? And the virtual desktops being exposed to the viewer. The cube metaphor works great, exposing functionality to the users. Friends, for the first time, are grouping apps - Work on Desktop 1, Web browsing on desktop 2 etc. Transparency can help or hinder (Vista), so I'm still on the fence on this one.

      Sure, some things are just eye-candy, for example the way movies can play on the corners of the cube. But by and large, XGL is _useful_ and _not_ eyecandy.

      • I definately agree. Since my xgl/compiz build has stopped working (i've got to stop experimenting) the things i miss by far the most are not how pretty things look (although that is a bonus) but things like (as the parent says) the expose clone, the visual feedback of moving between desktops, the transparency (opacity) plugin letting me see what is going on behind my terminals (i know some people don't like this, but it is fully opaque by default, and only changes when i tell it to) and even just the simple
    • Amen. I would also want to see a decent out of the box support for Mandarin, as I'm taking classes and I hate having to switch to Windows for typing my essays... Those two things and I know _a lot_ of people who would switch to Ubuntu tomorrow.
      • The current Dapper beta has beautiful support for Scim-chinese/pinyin. Of course, Firefox is stuck in the stone ages with libc5 and so won't work with it, but if you type in OOo or (I'd imagine) any other competent editor, it works perfectly.
        • Re:dapper and edgy (Score:3, Informative)

          by JanneM ( 7445 )
          The current Dapper beta has beautiful support for Scim-chinese/pinyin. Of course, Firefox is stuck in the stone ages with libc5 and so won't work with it, but if you type in OOo or (I'd imagine) any other competent editor, it works perfectly.

          Are you quite sure? I run Breezy with Scim for Japanese, and I can use it in the default Firefox with no trouble; never had to do anything, it just worked. If anything OOo is the most troublesome, since you need to set a bunch of options regarding preferred fonts and su
    • Re:dapper and edgy (Score:4, Informative)

      by Reducer2001 ( 197985 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @11:56PM (#15179092) Homepage
      I just tried Dapper this week after using Breezy since it came out. The 'killer app' for me in Linux-land is the addition of the Deskbar Applet in Gnome 2.14. I don't think there is anything in Windows or Mac world that compares to this. I don't know how I got by without it.

      For those who don't know what I'm talking about check this [slinckx.net] out.

      Finally, some innovation on the Linux desktop, instead of "Me too!" apps.

    • could be just what we needed to convince some regular people to give Linux a try


      Last easter I demonstrated the Kororaa Live CD with XGL to friends and parents and only the geeky onces were impressed. The 'normal users' did not see any value in wobbly windows. They were and still are mainly scared of any computer system that is not windows.

  • by SlashdotOgre ( 739181 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @06:51PM (#15177950) Journal
    It's great to see more distros playing around with Xgl and AIGLX; the more exposure they get, the faster they mature. I've been playing around with Xgl (Compiz) in Gentoo for the last month or so and am quite impressed. A number of features are just for show, but some are quite useful. I like the implementation of a function similar to exposé on the Mac, and true transparent windows can actually be useful. Stability wise, Xgl can definitely use some work, but overall it runs quite well (I typically use it with Gnome 2.14). I would suggest running any essential processes that need to be kept running in screen, but typically I only see crashes if I try to show off too much (eg. run multiple transparent movies on top of each other while spinning the desktop).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, 2006 @06:54PM (#15177967)
    There was a story the other day that Larry Ellison wanted to buy a Linux distro. Suse and Red Hat were mentioned. Putting aside my feelings about Ellison, any evil intentions he may have are doomed by people like Mark Shuttleworth. My goodness, what a contrast.
  • by xs650 ( 741277 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @07:03PM (#15178026)
    Farty Ferret
  • by radiotyler ( 819474 ) <tyler@dapOOOperg ... inus threevowels> on Friday April 21, 2006 @07:08PM (#15178061) Homepage
    You know, my domain name [dappergeek.com] doesn't seem nearly as cool anymore now that Linux nerds are using "dapper" in distro names... wait a minute, I am a Linux nerd. Crap, I guess I was never cool in the first place.
  • by Grendel Drago ( 41496 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @07:12PM (#15178081) Homepage
    Despite the delay, my favorite new app, gnucash-2.0, won't be in Dapper. Here's hoping I can get it in Edgy, so I don't have to do this compiling nonsense...
  • It really appears buggy.. I installed it on a Dell Inspiron 1100 laptop, and the screen resolution was set to 640x480 and could not be changed... It had to do with a DRI video driver for x11 (xorg) that was not included with the cd.. It had to be manually downloaded, compiled and installed. They really should work on this stuff, because its stuff like this that realy not only frustrates people, but also makes them not want to work with linux. Its just not ready for prime time.
    • Apart from the networking bug with the overenthusiastic islsm and islsm_pci drivers (put them in /etc/modules/blacklist and reboot) the Dapper beta is ready for prime-time.

      Graphics (neomagic), suspend and restart, sound, networking and a good set of applications including open office and firefox are all present and correct.

      Providing they fix the few remaining issues, this is ready for prime-time, even the Gnome icons are starting to be improved. It's not OS X, but it works!!!!!

      Posted from IBM ThinkPad 600X
    • regarding windows xp.

      when was the last time you installed windows xp on a new machine and didn't have to install extra drivers? my last windows install experience had microsoft kindly on my behalf downloading drivers for the inbuild sound chipset from the *wrong company*. (for those who are curious, i decided not to install in my *leet knowing what is really needed* ways and to see what would happen to someone following microsoft's directions to the letter. one "download drivers from microsoft update" cli
    • Its just not ready for prime time.

      It sure is. I use it exclusively as my operating system, and I know many people that do the same. What you meant was that it doesn't have complete support for all hardware combinations available; that's true, in fact it's true for all operating systems.

      Since this is a beta you should expect some problems. Maybe you could report this one to their bug system?
      • These are pretty common video chipsets put out many years ago by intel. Drivers have been available for many years. The forums specify that its a known issue, with a stated fix, but its not put in the mainline tree for some reason...
        According to http://www.ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1 3 594.html [ubuntuforums.org] , its been known for over a year.

        The bottom line is this stuff should just work, and it doesn't. Dell laptops are pretty standard and common. Its just not a good answer to say "oh its broken, go here to
  • OK, maybe not first, but it would be funny if my prediction about Linux Desktop market share [digitalelite.com] this year came true. Man, I would so have to lord it over my friends! ;-)

    I could happen. My second prediction has already come true (but that kinda sucks, really).

    Tom Caudron
    http://tom.digitalelite.com/linux.html [digitalelite.com]
  • by Anonymous Coward
    As much as I like ubuntu and can't wait until they provide
    a release with Xgl, I have to wonder just how they plan
    on doing this and still keep to Stallman's principal of
    no non-gpl software installed by default.

    How many computers will be able to run Xgl right out of the
    box without the need to manually install the nVidia or
    ATI drivers to get the necessary hardware acceleration?
  • Is it me or there seems to be two Ubuntu-related news everyday?

    Yes, Ubuntu is great, Mark and Canonical are providing a ton of cash to Debian development and all that.

    But I'm starting to get a little tired of a new Slashdot entry everytime there is a new commit to Ubuntu's CVS.

    This is getting as old as "Such and Such Company, inc" is using Linux in an enterprise environment!

    In the begining, it was exciting to hear of another company using Linux; it was new and got me all happy and feeling good.

    Same thing wi
  • Cutting (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Friday April 21, 2006 @11:20PM (#15178999) Homepage Journal
    So we'll determine the next version of Ubuntu that practically everyone uses by what the developers want.

    How about an experiment where the users determine the features of the leading desktop Linux distro?
    • Re:Cutting (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      So we'll determine the next version of Ubuntu that practically everyone uses by what the developers want.

      Technically, the "next version" of Ubuntu will be the Dapper Drake release, not Edgy Eft. That said, Dapper is billed as the solid, long term support release, which everyone can feel comfortable with while the devs mess around with Edgy Eft. This is important because it allows users to not have to upgrade if they need stability and don't need/want the bleeding edge.

      Since Dapper is supposed to be so stabl
      • "Dapper is billed as the solid, long term support release"

        Nothing so temporary as a permanent solution.

        "You can submit feature requests through various channels."

        Except that those channels won't be determining Eft's features - the developer channels will be.

        "The Ubuntu devs try very hard. It's not as easy as you might think."

        Who says they don't? Who says it's easy? All I said was that delivering a product driven by what the producers want to make isn't as good as what the consumers want to consume.

        Your post
    • Re:Cutting (Score:3, Insightful)

      by strider44 ( 650833 )
      This is linux - the developers *are* the users.
      • Even with Linux, the vast majority of users will never touch the code, except perhaps to compile the source for installation. Even then, most users install binaries. Ubuntu's a desktop Linux, so that ratio is even more pronounced. Even server distros have more users than developers, especially when you consider all the users of the servers' services, compared to the relatively few developers.

        It's true that Linux developers are users. And it's true that Linux users can develop - that's the open source defini
    • Why? Really why?

      First of all developers are users too. Secondly the users just want more stuff without ever once lifting a finger to do anything. As a rule they don't even say thank you. They get ubuntu and all they can do is to bitch and moan about how gimp isn't photoshop and that it won't run quicken.

      Personally i think it's time the users stopped pissing on people who give them free software, maybe then there will be greater communication between them.
      • Because the users, including the developers, are the reason we have software.

        Because product development driven by "what can we make, then who will want it" ("if we build it, they will come") is a proven recipe for failure, all day long, every day. While "what do people want, then how do we give it to them" is the recipe for success of every product.

        Asking for software that prioritizes users, including developers who use it, isn't pissing on those people. Bitterness like yours, which invents insult where th
        • "Because the users, including the developers, are the reason we have software."

          That's the reason we have commercial software. The users want stuff, some company develops software to give the users what they want, the users pay for the rights to use that software under the terms dictated by the company.

          "Asking for software that prioritizes users, including developers who use it, isn't pissing on those people."

          You are right. But that's not whats going on is it? What is going is that /. the newsgroups, the lis
    • What makes you so amazing that your off-the-cuff development model is better than the development model the Ubuntu team has used to produce the third most popular operating system distribution in the world?

      Has it ever occured to you that people titled "developers" just might know how to develop things?

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