Is There Room for Xandros in the Server Market? 106
Robert writes to tell us CBROnline is reporting that almost two years after discussing the possibility, Xandros has finally named a date for their first Linux server product. From the article: "While there are plenty of Linux server distributions on the market, the market is undoubtedly dominated by Red Hat, Novell's SUSE Linux a distant second. In order to find a gap in the market with Xandros Server, due May 1, the company will have to differentiate it from the pack."
How big is red hat and novell in the server market (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:3, Funny)
1Q06
$13m
"Linux platform products and other open source products"
Sure you can live with quarterly income of $13m, but what kind of a life would that be
I'd better say we need something new. Something that can run linux executables for backward compatibility but that is much cleaner and much more network-i/o minded than linux is right now. And it's own applications ofcourse should kick the %^*&$&# out of ms and linux counterparts.
Perhaps something that is designed for our shiny
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2, Insightful)
"Linux" covers a whole world of possibilities, from uclinux up to linspire. Saying it's bloated drags us back to the Negroponte article [slashdot.org]
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2)
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2)
That bit sounds a lot like OS-X to me. Personally I want Haiku to really pick up, or s similar project created for OS/2, I really liked both of those systems.
Plan 9 from Bell Labs (Score:2)
I think it was basically what you are envisioning -- a ground-up reconstruction of UNIX, with an emphasis on networking and the distributed multiuser environment, developed and backed by a large corporation with deep pockets and substantial R&D resources. It doesn't have a Linux binary compatibility layer, although it seems like you could probably build one if you really wanted to and were running it
Re: (Score:2)
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2)
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2)
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2)
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:1)
We are running a couple datacenters and whenever we use Linux, we try to do SuSE Pro whenever we can - it is de facto standard now.
I myself recently stumbled across a mind boggling issue with the newest RH ES -- when installing on a fairly typical IBM x346 it failed to install LILO complaining that kernel (RH stock kernel at that!) was too large, but silently finished install leaving a machine in an unbootable state!
The only place we've RH left now is where we have Oracle DB, but we've asked to inves
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:1)
sounds like user error to me.
Re:How big is red hat and novell in the server mar (Score:2)
Re:Is there room for Xandros in her? (Score:1)
Not a wise move (Score:5, Interesting)
They are doing so great in that market a risky move like this could undo a lot of that good work, they could end up eating it on the server market not being able to compete with the big boys.
Whilst the article mentions some cool stuff they are planning, if people want a windows like management console they are likely to stick to windows.
Regardless I wish them luck.
On the contrary- a very wise move (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a bilingual (Windows and *nix) small business consultant, and I would love to see a really easy Linux server for very small companies. I'm really big on long-term maintainability, and while I've got no problem editing config files, my customers do, and frankly there aren't alot of Linux fluent consultants serving very small companies either. So I've been very hesitant to roll our Linux-based servers because I don't want to leave them totally high and dry should we stop working together.
I've looked at what's out there today with webmin and such, and it just is not something you could turn your average windows-educated sysadmin loose on and know that they'd be able to add users and new desktops, create shares, etc... If Xandros can put something together that has a consistent, logical config UI for non-linux users and package it with great maintenance and support, it would be very welcome. I just hope the price is right... it's got to be cheaper than windows SBS 2003 OEM to compete.
-R
Re:On the contrary- a very wise move (Score:2)
Recently was surprised to find one of my mates was trying SME server inspite of a limited Linux background. But it is based on ancient Redhat version, and it shows, and I can't recommend it because it is so dated.
There is definitely room for "based on Debian" server platforms. Xandros have things like email, and web servers pretty much for free, all they need to sort is the user management, which they will need to sort out anyway if they hope to move out of small site deployments on t
I looked at Nitix (Score:2)
I'll take a look at the other one you mention.
-R
Re:I looked at Nitix (Score:2)
Re:I looked at Nitix (Score:1)
It's also so horribly modified that you almost can't even call it linux anymore. It's not possible to add functionality to it unless nitix has created a module for it, and you're willing to pay thr
Re:On the contrary- a very wise move (Score:3, Interesting)
While I take factual issue with this, it's an attitude I've hea
Re:On the contrary- a very wise move (Score:2)
In a sense, you've just summarized why it probably won't ever happen.
What is needed can be summarized as a drop-in replacement for whatever MS-Windows system is currently in use.
Thi
Re:Not a wise move (Score:2)
So what do I mean by these servers? For a home server:
Re:Not a wise move (Score:2)
Seeing how VMWare Server and Player are free, I can see an increasing market for compact virtualized appliances, which in turn reduces the value of something like a Xandros server product. Sooner or later, some bright guys are going to make an idiot-proof Xen appliance that wil
Re:virtualize the home servers... (Score:2)
OTH, I have noticed that my father is not able to QUICKLY get this working. that is where a distro comes into play. The ability to quickly and easily get it working. More importantly, the mentioning of the firewall with scanning the ident would be
Re:Not a wise move (Score:2)
Xandros is among the worst desktop distributions I've been exposed to. A client, prior to my introduction to them, migrated 20 workstations to Xandros from Windows, but kept a Windows server with ADS and Terminal Svcs for their property management app. Xandros is (now 'was') a bloated, slow, obnoxious distribution. KDE apps were renamed 'Xandros "Ap
Re:Not a wise move (Score:1)
Re:Not a wise move (Score:2)
I'm glad I'm not alone in my frustration with Xandros. The knowledgable end user support just isnt there on their forums and paying for support for simple
Re:Not a wise move (Score:2)
Is there room? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm all for linux on corporate equipment that's why I've been running Debian for years, I have boxes in production that were installed years ago with Debian and have happily churned away without any trouble, and really have only had to be rebooted a few times to update the kernel due to security trouble.
I know I know people want support and need to have that warm fuzzy feeling but if you higher good help you should be able to support these boxes internally on your own.
Re:Is there room? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is there room? (Score:2)
Re:Is there room? (Score:2)
Re:Is there room? (Score:2)
Where I work it is easier to persuade the PHB's to accept an OSS product if paid maintenance contracts are available. Otherwise they count their reliance on inhouse expertise as a risk.
Suse is a distant second, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
But it is shrinking. (Score:2)
They could turn that around if they would support GroupWise 7.0 on Red Hat and Ubuntu. It already runs on SuSE (Novell's own distribution). There is no reason why GroupWise should not be THE email/calendaring server on Linux.
We're running NetWare 6.5 with GroupWise and ZENworks and the only reason we're still with Novell is because of all the documentation that our users have stored in Group
Re:Suse is a distant second, but ... (Score:2)
Redhat are up there because they do make some very stable server systems, as for support - I've never used it, and I'm not too keen on their kernel mutilation.
What I don't see is why Novell haven't become much much bigger, considering they have a very stable server base (Suse/SLES), the desktop integra
It's about Support (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's about Support (Score:2)
The more, the merrier (Score:2)
And there certainly is a market. Being big doesn't mean jack if you're too big to support all your customers and satisfy them. Actually, being a small company can be a selling point for some companies.
Imagine a big corp, deciding to use the flavor of Linux from a smaller distri ma
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:5, Insightful)
With Windows on the other hand, Microsoft intentionally cripples the lesser versions of Windows. Look at XP Home versus XP Pro, and how Microsoft intentionally crippled out of Home features that were in Pro. For example, XP Pro has advanced control over user permissions--the capability is on Home too, but MS crippled it out.
With Linux distros, the maintainers are adding as much functionality as they can. With Windows versions, MS figures out what functions it can remove, in order to goad users into spending more $$.
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:2)
--jeffk++
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:2)
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:1)
It is true that gentoo's init system is easy to use, yet is it really hard to fire up Yast/RHcontrol center/whatever debian uses and edit the runlevels? or even to add the extensions by hand? plus i havn't come across any GUI for gentoo's init system (havn't really looked either) but is an admin who is switching from a windows server ( this seems to be the theme
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:2)
rc-update add [service-name] [runlevel-name]
rc-update del [service-name]
rc-update show [runlevel-name]
is definetely not anything a competent admin would have any trouble with whatsoever. In fact, by the time a Windows person can go Start->Settings->Control Panel->Administration Tools->Services->*Find Service*->*Right Click on Service*->Properties and set their service to do as they wish I would have already had my service set up and have been posting this reply
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:2)
This is a matter of opinion, and I strongly disagree.
> Every single distro does its own thing
This is simply and plainly a lie. I can think of no gentler term to use (although I can think of harsher ones). As a software developer, I have no problem whatsoever developing for "Linux", even though there are several hundred distributions. In fact, it is the market leaders who are most likely to "do their own thing"--the vast majority of Linux
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The more, the merrier (Score:2)
I humblely disagree.
Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) [pathname.com]
The filesystem standard has been designed to be used by Unix distribution developers, package developers, and system implementors. However, it is primarily intended to be a reference and is not a tutorial on how to manage a Unix filesystem or directory hierarchy.
Gentoo FHS [gentoo.org]
RedHat FHS [redhat.com]
Suse FHS&LSB [novell.com]
And for binary distros there is Linux Standard Base (LSB) [linuxbase.org]
The LSB specificati
why not? (Score:5, Interesting)
What they are doing is creating a server that supplies updates and management to the rest of Xandros boxen on the network, and groupware. Why shouldn't they? So far nobody has integrated this functionally proper even in the windows environment.
Re:why not? (Score:3, Insightful)
As a server distro, however, I would be looking at how well funded the company is. Many companies want to keep a server operational for five years, maybe more. If I'm going to go with Linux, I'm going to choose a reasonably well funded company like Red Hat, or I'm going to go totally free.
I'd also be concerned about support. I used to chec
Re:why not? (Score:3, Interesting)
Ahhh, so that's what happened to Corel Linux. I wondered about that. I've got several old CDs of corel laying around somewhere, along with a Corel Office product (corel office? forget what the name was). I remember them being a cut above the rest in usability.
Seriously, though... the competition was redhat 6.2. No one knew how to edit their x11 config. By comparison, today every linux distro is significantly easier than Corel was back in their day.
yup.. sure (Score:3, Funny)
the chameleon and hat dont take much space. if u want to
optimize, we can put the chameleon inside the hat. There is
lotttttts of space for XANDROS.
Rock On.
What a goofy question (Score:2)
Differentiation is the key (Score:5, Informative)
It comes with a full groupware solution (they haven't announced which one but it's a commercial product) and a commercial backup solution. They also announced it's bundled with Helix Server which is cool if you want to get into streaming media.
Their site is still short on details and no screenshots but it gives a pretty high level view of the product. www.xandros.com [xandros.com]. If you want to know what it looks like, just look at Microsoft Management Console (MMC).
Re:Differentiation is the key (Score:2)
If you want to know what it looks like, just look at Microsoft Management Console (MMC).
Why is this a good thing? The MMC is such a royal pain in the arse for system management, I have absolutly no idea why any *nix system would want to imitate it.
For that matter, I'm not sure why any systems administrator would want to install a GUI on top of their services. Added "features" add complexity which increases the likelyhood of 0-day vulnerabilities. Isn't the second rule of secure system administation (a
They Should Concentrate on a PDC and kill the CALs (Score:5, Insightful)
So try on this "vision". You are a desktop company, so connect your desktops. What would really distinguish your company and provide "added-value" is to make a Xandros-Domain Controller by integrating Samba, a Directory Server (perhaps using the now open-source Redhat/Netscape DS), along with a slick admin gui. Provide support for an office running mixed Xandros and windows clients. It could be based on Linux, but it's linux-ness should be almost invisable and irrelavent.
Re:They Should Concentrate on a PDC and kill the C (Score:1)
PNP (Score:2)
There is plenty of room... (Score:3, Informative)
I have used Xandros Desktop since Desktop 1.0 and will be looking forward to implementing their server product.
Real (Score:2)
1) A dedicated Real Media Server. There aren't good options on Linux because RedHat, Suse etc... aren't in bed with Real
2) Integration with Xandros desktop management tools.
Re:Real (Score:2)
Not a slam, but I think I can count the Real streams I've run across on two hands so far this year. I know RealNetworks has been focusing on the embedded market and moving away from the PC market and that strategy seems to be working for them from a revenue stand point. However, this retrenchment strategy against MS simply doesn't work, ask Palm and Corel about it. If Xandros's strategy is to hitch it's server to a format that's in retreat, there are probably going to be pro
Re:Real (Score:2)
Lots of choices for Linux, just bother to look (Score:2)
There aren't good options on Linux because RedHat, Suse etc... aren't in bed with Real
Huh. That's weird. I wonder what all these are for then [helixcommunity.org]. Looks like I (or anyone else) can go get binaries for the Helix DNA Server v10 for:
AIX 4.3/5.x on PowerPC
FreeBSD 5.x on IA32
HP/UX 11.0 on HP-PA
Linux on IA32
NetBSD 1.6 on IA32
OpenBSD 3.3 on IA32
Tru64 5.1 on Alpha
Solaris 8/9 on UltraSPARC
Windows on IA32
And v11 for
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4.0 on IA32
Linux 2.6 on IA32
Solaris 9/10 on UltraSPARC
Windows S
Re:Lots of choices for Linux, just bother to look (Score:2)
I'm so tired of this statement! (Score:1)
It really does make sense (Score:2)
Good to go alongside their business desktop distro (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Good to go alongside their business desktop dis (Score:2)
Xandros is better than most of the other linux desktop distros out there, especially when it comes to Windows integration. Keep in mind, that's not saying much at all. I found myself using VMWare running Windows more than actually using the the host operating system. Despite its many strengths, Xandros isn't a great substitute for Windows. M
Yes iff the following questions are answered (Score:4, Insightful)
2. Can it be certified to run DB/2 (like Ubuntu)?
But how would that make them different? (Score:2)
Plenty of room. (Score:1)
Success not likely, unless? (Score:2, Insightful)
What my server distro needs: 1) strong community support 2) strong security, automatic patch management 3) long term stability - three years minimum of patch support 4) a workable Samba package with ldap integrated from the package install 5) a workable, virtual domain capable, with easy administration, IMAP, webmail, ldap, and etc, email package with packaged *version* updates to at least clam for virus protection.
These ar
Re:Success not likely, unless? (Score:1)
What would they bring to the table? What would it cost. Would they stay around long term?
Somebody please moderate me down.
Re:Success not likely, unless? (Score:2)
What would they bring to the table? What would it cost. Would they stay around long term?
Somebody please moderate me down.
As long as you're going to be your own grammar Nazi, you could have also pointed out that the second sentence should have ended in a question mark. :)
Re:Success not likely, unless? (Score:1)
You're clearly talking about the "Tuttle" incident. I don't think that threatening to call the FBI on someone is quite the same as asking them for help.
Of course I'm not a whiney little bitch, so maybe our definitions are different.
Is there enough room? (Score:1)
If it's free..... (Score:1)
yes they can (Score:1)