Robosapien: Latest Toy Robot From Mark Tilden 181
Onnimikki writes "Mark Tilden has been building really cool BEAM robots for a long time. Now, he's come up with RoboSapien, a toy that no self-respecting geek can go without. Videos of the RoboSapien at the 2004 New York City Toy Fair have been made available by Solarbotics. Mark offers some really good explanations about what makes them work."
Imagine if he spent $200! (Score:5, Interesting)
Happy Trails!
Erick
Re:Imagine if he spent $200! (Score:5, Funny)
This looks like something that's released in Japan 3 years before it ever(if ever) makes it to rest of the world.
I'm reminded by those multi-million dollar Japanese robots(Doesn't Honda and someone else make one?). They have huge research labs, this guy has literally evolved his robots from bugs to sapiens. The next generations should be amazing.
Oh yea, and my son will be getting one of these for his 1st birthday in a couple of months. Here, play with the box.
The Honda Robot (Score:2, Informative)
Yes, Honda has ASIMO [honda.com], or Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility. I remember first seeing ASIMO walk around, looking a little creepy, since it walked with a relatively "human" style. It also "...turns sideways, climbs up and down stairs, and turns corners." And it's starting to look more and more human [honda.com] with each new prototype.
Re:The Honda Robot (Score:2)
The origin of the name ASIMO (Score:2)
you can preorder this today (Score:5, Informative)
Re:you can preorder this today (Score:5, Informative)
Re:you can preorder this today (Score:3, Funny)
World domination robot (Score:5, Funny)
And for only $99? Wow, we should've invested in these in Iraq.
Re:World domination robot (Score:5, Funny)
We would of, if Halliburton made 'em.
Re:World domination robot (Score:2, Insightful)
there's more truth to that statement than you can possibly know.
C&D on the "would OF" business! (Score:2, Informative)
Good, strong joke - but c'mon man, you're making my eyes bleed over here.
People, it's would have. As in "We would've done it that way, had we known better. We would have written it like so, but we insisted on doing it incorrectly - for some incomprehensible reason." /Grammar-nazi-within-me out.
Re:C&D on the "would OF" business! (Score:2)
Heisenberg might of been here.
Re:World domination robot (Score:5, Funny)
But then they wouldn't have cost only $99 apiece...
Bless You, Child (Score:4, Funny)
I mean, shit, a big robotic dude with mean chops would freak me out.
Monkey vs. Robot (Score:1, Funny)
Don't tell Arnold (Score:5, Funny)
Good thing he didn't name it HomoSapien, or the Terminator/Gov. of California (difficult to tell which part is more of a stretch) would say:
What a Homo Robot? That is illegal!
Re:Don't tell Arnold (Score:4, Funny)
-Bender
Popular science quote (Score:3, Insightful)
the 14-inch-tall RoboSapien, which will retail for about $80 when it hits stores later this year, uses analog transistors to react to signals from the world around it.
How is this different from the aibo?
Re:Popular science quote (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Popular science quote (Score:1, Informative)
color CCD,
3-axis gyroscope,
300+mhz 32bit RISC processor,
MemoryStick slot for data storage/user-written code (I have a 16mb card in one of my Aibos, 32mb in the other)
wireless lan card
OS based on Unix (Aperios)
stereo microphones
14 DOF
etc. etc. etc.
In short, this is a neat toy. Aibo is a neat toy, too, but can serve as a robust hardware platform for serious robotics/AI research.
Re:Popular science quote (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Popular science quote (Score:5, Interesting)
The main reason people don't do things in analog more often is that its hard to design and its typically even harder to design something that can be mass produced (due to tolerances/ manufacturing variations). A popular control systems design book has a photo of his UniBug on the cover because it's such a neat applications of controls theory. The bug can walk without needing any long fine tuning to get parameters to just the right value.
Of course analog design suffers from a whole host of problems that the digital world is relatively immune to. For example, noise in an analog system is a huge killer whereas noise in a digital system isn't so bad untill you start working at >100MHz. For example, 1-2mv (that's 10^-3) of noise in your analog system can be deadly if you're amplifying that signal by 100x-1000x whereas 1-2mv of noise in a digital part isn't such a big problem.
Re:Popular science quote (analog noise) (Score:2, Informative)
What are ordinarily considered problems to be engineered out of analog designs are considered as opportunities for exploitation by BEAM roboticists
At last (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I found this pretty cool. Amazing these little guys have such ablities consdering the technology.
After seeing countless videos of many different robots, this is on the only one I could see putting on my desk. Don't know how the ghosts who haunt my abode are going to feel about it though.
I, for one, welcome... (Score:5, Funny)
Mirrors? (Score:1, Insightful)
language skills (Score:5, Funny)
- Speaks fluent international "caveman".
It's nice to see more interest in 'caveman', unlike dying languages such as Latin or 'Furby [furbies.free.fr]'.
Although 'caveman' is not a selection at Babel Fish [altavista.com] yet.
Re:language skills (Score:2)
dammit! (Score:5, Funny)
"- 67 pre-programmed functions including pick-up, throw, kick, sweep,dance, fart, beltch, rap, and half-a-dozen different kung-fu moves.
- Speaks fluent international "caveman".
- Three demonstration modes: Disco dance, Rude behavior, and Kung Fu kata.
Well, looks like I'm going to lose my job to a $100 robot.
Re:dammit! (Score:3, Funny)
Would these things interact with each other? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Would these things interact with each other? (Score:2)
Re: Teams (Score:1)
It reminded me of three-man football team from 1970's Atari.
Page down (Score:1)
RoboSapien media (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.androidworld.com/www_toy.jpg [androidworld.com]
Video:
http://www.iirobotics.com/downloads/robozip.zip [iirobotics.com]
Re:RoboSapien media (Score:1)
BTW, these are
Come to daddy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Come to daddy (Score:1)
I mean we could buy like 10 000 of them (80$ a piece, more or less 800 000$) and train them to crash helicopters and sink our battleships...
Re:Come to daddy (Score:4, Funny)
This is not especially interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
I move to strike the word "robot" from any device that is not autonomous in some fashion...
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't be so sure. These are analog control circuits, not digital logic. So there' s no CPU or microcontroller to program with autonomous-ish behavior. And theres not an easy (or cheap) way to control the analog circuits even with add-on digital controller of some sort or add new response behavior based on new sensor inputs -- the discrete component operating ranges are to small to produce the wide variety of behavior you can do with digital logic.
So, if you want this toy to do something new, you can't just tweak some assembly code, or vary the pulse-code modulation signal to a servo, you have to design a new control circuit. There's the rub.
Still kinda cool to watch an $80 robot do a little jig with decent dexterity. It's a great achievement in low-cost analog feedback control systems. If we just knew how to make cheap resistors and capacitors with wide ranges of easily-controllable parameters, we'd be seeing some major advancements spawning from this.. .
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2, Insightful)
If this thing runs! Then pitty the poor cat population! { Evil laughter goes here! }
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:5, Informative)
Digital, as relevant here (like an Aibo), means able to be approximated by binary values and transformed by logical operations using digital circuits that drive digital-analog converters such as servos and motors with "digital" imputs and controls. This sort of thing lends itself very easily to programming that can be changed and modified easily, sensors added to the system with little impact or re-design needed, etc.
My point was that analog discrete devices, like the ones used in this toy, tend to be only cheap enough to warrant a system price of $80 when they are the plain old-fashioned fixed values, which means the circuit made of these that controls the behavior is not variable (its behavior depends on these fixed values). It does one thing, and has a few circuits that it can shunt in an out to do several canned things. But making it do a new thing, even a slight variation is hard and expensive, and adding a new input from a new sensor, something trivial in most digital control systems (like an Aibo), is nigh impossible.
So, again, the only way this sort of analog-circuit control system robot toy will help bring down the cost of other, digital processor-based robots, is if we find a way to make cheap discrete components with variable parameter values controllable by digital logic, and even then the savings would be pretty small. You still need the ASIC with the microcontroller in it. Maybe your servos and motors could be a bit cheaper -- maybe.
This is _VERY_ interesting.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Fixed, what is fixed? There are a lot of fixed values in the human body. In fact most of the body is based on very fixed processes. Feed back, is a very fixed response. The complexity comes with the sheer number of feedback systems working in parrallel. We cannot model this complexity with a pre-programmed system, but it may be possible to simulate the feedback and then set those loose to model the system.
Have you _EVER_ worked with a digital robot, adding a new senosr is not easy? Adding a new response is not easy. In fact this is one of the main stumbling blocks of digital robots. Everytime you add a new sensor you have to explicity program for it. That means the robot is limited by the imagination/time of the designer.
In response to your last paragraph, take a look at beam robots. See how they can do tasks with a few components that complex digital robots cannot. See how they deal with component failures. Think about how this ties back to nature. See that tieing into a feedback circuit is easy, but ultimately unpredictable.
This whole area is opening up after 50+ years of going in the wrong direction and achieving only predictable systems. AI/AL is embracing simple systems that combine automatically to implement complexity.
Read Stephen Wolfram, Steve Grand and Mark Tilden. All three are showing that unpredictable complexity can be modeled by designing simple feedback systems and then letting them interfere with each other. Chaos theory is the underlying mathamatics.
To cast aside this arena as just a cheap toy is to be blind to the sheer scope of the undertaking.
Orville, Wilbour put down that paper plane it's just a toy.
Re:This is _VERY_ interesting.... (Score:3, Interesting)
The real world can be analog and digital at the same time. It's red not blue. it's a sort of pinkish red. Is time discreet or continuos? What do you mean you do not know!
Time is continuous on the scale of interest to robotics -- human scale. No question.
Fixed, what is fixed? There are a lot of fixed values in the human body. In fact most of the body is based on very fixed processes. Feed ba
Re:This is _VERY_ interesting.... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's kind of like saying launching satellites is trivial because you can build cheap and simple model rockets. Or this: O(n^2) algoritms are usually a lot simple
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Using the ergonomic remote control, you can comm
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2, Insightful)
KFG
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:3, Informative)
This is not a robot (in the opinion of the original poster and me) because it is neither autonomous nor does it have the capacity to be made autonomous-ish by adding sensors and a brain (microcontroller). It can only perform canned macro-functions and sequences of these canned macro-functions. Micro-scale control of its functions is not available.
A programmable assembly-line robot is, however, a robot not because it's autonomous in itself
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
It already has a microcontroller, and if you changed the code on the microcontroller, you could program it with whatever behaviour you want.
Sure, it uses nervou
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
Here's a challenge -- it can dance, which includes bending it's left knee at one point. Amazingly, when bending the left knee, the rest of the robot bends accordingly to maintain balance. Try making it bend it's left knee at some other time during the dance and/or making it use another way
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
*shrug* I have watched Mark Tilden's explanations of what it does. I have picked up the short comments he has made about how it is controlled. I have 7 years of university in computer science and electronics, and 6 years in the field, and my interpretation of what he said is that if I were to
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2, Insightful)
I could add such sensors and microcontrolers to my R/C car easily e
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
Because you can only make a robosapien do one, or some sequence of, 67 canned actions. You can't make new actions. It's just the 67, that's all forever, no more, no hope to expand.
Contrast with Aibo where every sensor and servo can be read/ignored/actuated to whatever degree you (or the stock programmers) can imagine.
That's what I mean by "micro scale control of m
some thoughts (Score:2)
Because you can only make a robosapien do one, or some sequence of, 67 canned actions. You can't make new actions. It's just the 67, that's all forever, no more, no hope to expand..
This is not necessarily a bad thing. Most sensible autonomous architectures work this way these days. You take a few atomic actions and sequence them together to complete more complex beh
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
Unless you're just interested in varying the combos/sequences of the 67 canned actions, or just want to control/program them from a different interface than the remote, yet is does.
A lot of posters in this thread, probably with some exposure to Aibo and the like, seem to have a hard time grasping how basically (fundamentally) different this is. I suppose I'm partially to blame for not coming up
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
What Tilden emphasized with the RoboSimian, was the customization possibilities involved. Are you listening, action figure customizing freaks? Now you can dress up and paint your very own robot. He also said that because of its affordability, techno-geeks (I'm looking at you, Dave) can open this sucker up and play around with his insides, looking to see not only how he works, but what can be done to him. Wise move.
If Mark Tilden says he made it so you could play with the guts, I think I'm gonna want to play with the guts.
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
Then, late one night, sneak an army of these into iraq. Take that GWB!!!
Can you imagine like 20 of these things having a game of tag?
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:2)
And continue using robotics correctly to refer to ROBOTS
Like Mr. Roboto.
Re:This is not especially interesting (Score:3, Interesting)
(see also http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beam/message/41592 )
This is a radio con
World domination, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
*looks at robot*
Well, sure, if you plan to dominate the portion of the world that's smaller than 14 inches.
I guess that could work. I mean, if you control the floors and electrical outlets, you pretty much control everything.
Re:World domination, eh? (Score:1)
KFG
Re:World domination, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
I guess that could work. I mean, if you control the floors and electrical outlets, you pretty much control everything.
My cat has two rules:
Re:World domination, eh? (Score:2)
Now that you mention it, my cat has me trained to walk around him in the hallway... Dammit.
Re:World domination, eh? (Score:2)
More Videos (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.iirobotics.com/webpages/hotstuff.php [iirobotics.com]
Have fun!
Reminds me of... (Score:4, Informative)
pre-orders at BestBuy and ToysrUs/Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
BestBuy is taking preorders for RoboSapien [bestbuy.com] at $99.99 shipped free.
Toysrus.com has it for $89.99 [amazon.com] but no free shipping.
$89.99 where? (Score:2)
no computer required! :( (Score:2, Interesting)
Speaking of toy man ... (Score:2)
My favorite Mark Tilden story (Score:5, Interesting)
Mark was giving a presentation at a conference. He was showing off one of his small insect robots. He then (to the audience's horror) crumpled it up like a wad of paper and put it down on top of the overhead projector. The audience was then able to see it unfold itself and walk away.
Unfortunately, the story has a larger context which explains how it comes to be that Mark is down in the States rather than still here in Canada. Again, I would be interested in hearing an accurate version of the story.
Re:My favorite Mark Tilden story (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:My favorite Mark Tilden story (Score:3, Interesting)
He's a fascinating guy to meet in person. You have to have your wits about you and be hard-core techie to track his conversations though.
When everyone else was focused on computationally intensive app
Re:My favorite Mark Tilden story (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds like Mark. When he was a lab tech at University of Waterloo, I got to see him do similar things on many occasions, although maybe not as extreme. Then again, his budget was whatever he could scrounge at surplus electronics stores. He'd bend and twist the wire legs of robots, flip them
Re:My favorite Mark Tilden story (Score:2, Interesting)
I was told by an insider that personnel had his education rating "officially" limited to being a bachelor's degree.
He left LANL somewhat before September of 2001. I believe I've heard that there is a book that is required to be in the Los Alamos County Library that lists all of the
respect (Score:2)
Apparently I am not very self-respecting!
BitTorrent for video files (Score:5, Informative)
One day . . . (Score:2)
It can fart? (Score:3, Funny)
THUD! CRASH! (Score:3, Interesting)
That made the Sony one look like 2 year old mush!
Are they sure it will go for 99 dollars! WOW!
I've got to say... (Score:2, Interesting)
A robot has always been a geek toy I've wanted, and this one will definitely fit my price range.
If anyone else has simliar, relatively low-priced robots, fill me in?
Thanks.
I want one with a wall plug (Score:2)
Whew! (Score:2)
Robosexual (Score:4, Funny)
At first glance, I thought this said "can go out with."
Neat! (Score:2)
Shame it's not programmable, it'd be a great U.S. Wonderborg [japantoday.com].
"Rude Behavior"? (Score:3, Funny)
Finally I'll have someone to blame my flatulence on besides the dog and my wife (neither of whom are amused).
Grand & Tilden (Score:4, Insightful)
There is a great deal in common between this and the game/work of Steve Grand. Steve has started to work with robotics and I think this a mistake. He could have taken his software to the next level.
Both Grand and Tilden feel that you can create life with very simple processes. You do not need to spell about how something is to behave but what something is. This is a fundamental change from the traditional AI/AL approach.
The exciting thing is that the approach of using simple processes is paying dividends. Where Grand might explain conciousness, Tilden can explain physiology.
Where is computing going in the future, take a look at the work of these two gentlemen and see for your self.
Annoying camera angle (Score:2, Funny)
Was it really necessary to keep Mark Tilden in the shot at ALL times? Could we have gotten ONE close-up of the robot? A medium shot even?
Open source sig, feel free to modify it's source and distribute publicly.
It should be RoboSapiens (Score:2)
Drop a thousand on Mars for pre-construction.. (Score:2)
Just drop a thousand of these on Mars for pre-construction in advance for humans to land. Pave out runways and habitat in advence with a army of robot critters. Loose one or two, no big deal.
If you make 'em the size of a HumVee or a Cat then you have something that could do dirt work for years on solar power
Seriously in need of overclocking (Score:2)
Is this the same Mark Tilden that Subtitled Anime? (Score:2)
Robotic Simian? (Score:2)
Is it just me? (Score:2)
Now, all joking aside, this is seriously cool. A robotic toy I can afford (after college) which has a longer battery life than almost all similar toys on the market. Wow. When will we get to the point where they sell a shell unit like that, that allows us to upgrade it and add our own modules? I'd love a plug and play robot that wasn't
already been done. (Score:3, Informative)
If you have a robot which supports some form of connectivity (IR, wireless, tethered.. protocol isn't all that important), you can make player connect to your robot. Player is a TCP server which then allows you to write your robotics code in whatever language you see fit, provided it has the ability to connect via TCP. It abstracts away hardware in much the way a driver does, and provides a uniform way to access sensors and effectors.
It's a nice system.