Opera Releases "Bork" Edition 723
David Arnesen writes "Two weeks ago it was revealed that Microsoft's MSN portal targeted Opera users, by purposely providing them with a broken page. As a reply to MSN's treatment of its users, Opera Software today released a very special Bork edition of its Opera 7 for Windows browser. The Bork edition behaves differently on one Web site: MSN. Users accessing the MSN site will see the page transformed into the language of the famous Swedish Chef from the Muppet Show: Bork, Bork, Bork!
Here you can find the press release and download link!"
How utterly useless... (Score:5, Funny)
My treat! (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm rolling on the floor laughing my ass off now! Haha! You're my heroes!
Re:My treat! (Score:4, Funny)
I em pruood und preefileged tu hefe-a beee a pert ooff thees. I gut un imeeel frum Hekun joost a foo deys egu, eskeeng iff zeey cuoold use-a my JefeScreept incheffereezer [vwh.net] (purted frum sumeune-a ilse-a's Jefa ferseeun) oon "oone-a ooff zeeur peges". I hed nu idea vhet zeey intended tu du veet it, boot neferzeeless seeed soore-a! Nu prublem.
I'm rulleeng oon zee fluur loogheeng my ess ooffff noo! Heha! Yuoo're-a my herues!
I love this (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I love this (Score:5, Interesting)
This seems like a much more reasonable alternative to litigation. It's funny and it gets the point across. Another possible "solution" would be to mung up the browser id tag whenever you go to MSN (but they would probably work around that pretty quickly).
Please somebody grab a screenshot and share!!!
Re:I love this (Score:5, Funny)
Please don't mod me up.
Oh yeah? Check this out.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I love this (Score:5, Insightful)
But I think what we really need is a show of solidarity. Mozilla and Safari, among others, should release a Bork edition asap.
Re:I love this (Score:5, Funny)
Please don't mod me up. ;)
Haha, you fool! You and your webserver will soon regret your gif formatting!
Re:I love this (Score:5, Funny)
I guess reading Slashdot for a couple years has me imune to speeling earroors.
Re:I love this (Score:3, Insightful)
It might make a great advertisement for opera. At the same time they are letting people know that if they use opera then they will have problems on at least one (big) web site.
Re:I love this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I love this (Score:4, Interesting)
GTRacer
- Should be coding and compiling on my PS2 Linux Kit in about a month...
Exactly (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. And with a stunt like this, I would be very surprised if it doesn't find it's way to some of the larger "mainline" media sites.
Also, I have a feeling that Microsoft itself will react pretty quickly. The technical "trick" they played was pretty simple-minded, not unlike the "Swicher" add that was mentioned in another article here. Microsoft caught some major flack for that one, after some Slashdot folks discovered that the anonymous switcher was really an employee of the advertising company that was doing the add. I have a feeling some people got canned for that little stunt. Besides, there probably are some Opera users who reakky do need to get to stuff on MSN, and hopefully, now their pages won't be broken.
In the end, it's another black eye for Microsoft. It won't make much difference in the short run, but who knows what effect this will have in the long term?
(Well, for one, I just downloaded the latest free version of Opera on my Linux box, and may end up paying for the commercial version if I like it better than Galeon. I'm probably not the only one who did this because of this article...)
Re:I love this (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, but do you care?
Re:I love this (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I love this (Score:5, Insightful)
There needs to be more humour in situations like this. When things get as daft as this you've got two options - a) laugh, or b) cry.
Besides, if these two companies started suing each other, wanna hazard a guess who's the bitter death would be?
Re:I love this (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I love this (Score:3, Insightful)
Google has done similar things lately... (Score:5, Informative)
This is definitely intentional on Google's part, as the offending referer spammers have no relation to the SPAM-oriented pages (and certainly are not mentioned or linked there). It's like a digital middle finger to the referer spammers.
Gotta love when the geeks take precedence over the lawyers in the corporate food chain
Re:Google has done similar things lately... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, most likely what happens is that a lot of people link to the sites saying things like "this site supports spam etc. etc." and then when google starts indexing it, it relates spam to that site.
Re:I love this (Score:3, Insightful)
Just another example of Microsoft using its core business value of fraud to screw with a competitor and lower economic value for its customers.
Re:I love this (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I love this (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft were not trying to fix layout bugs in Opera 6 - there weren't any. Also, we contacted them several times requesting them to fix their site so it displayed properly in Opera 7. They had done nothing about it until today.
Håkon Wium Lie
CTO, Opera Software
Re:I love this (Score:5, Funny)
As a Swede I have to agree, throughout modern history we Swedes have suffered terribly. This Swedish chef thing is just the latest in the anti-vikingism seen around the world. We gave the world quality music like Abba and Ace of Base, not to mention we brought you quality furniture through Ikea, and crappy cellphones from Ericsson. And what do you do, you laugh at us and mock us and create obviously evil things like this... It's to the point now that I can't hear someone mention Swedish meatballs without crying... My wife offered me Swedish massage and I shrieked and I immediately went fetal. No more I say! We Swedes have suffered enough.
Signed:
The Swedish Non-Confrontational Front for the Invasion of Norway, Or The Invading By Norway, Either One.
PS, Norweigans smell.
Re:I love this (Score:4, Insightful)
If Bill wrote code that kept Oracle from running on Windows and publicized this, he'd be able to sell it (except for that monopoly thing, but run with this) because his product is still working as advertised. But when he writes secret code that makes Oracle appear broken, it's fraud. When other programs work properly, and one breaks, the natural assumption is that the broken program is at fault. If you intentionally break a program, and let people come to that conclusion, it's pretty much as dishonest as claiming outright that the program is broken.
DR-DOS sued and won (well, whoever owned the husk of the company at that point, won) because of MS's quiet sabotage of their product. Likely Opera could, if this keeps happening, because it's essentially the same actions. And provably, Microsoft did detect Opera 7 specifically, and send it broken code. It's not just that they sent NS4.7 compatible code and Opera didn't like it. Opera faithfully rendered a badly layed out page, that microsoft designed to make it look like a sloppy browser error. It's pretty hard to claim that they intentionally detected Opera 7, created code just for it (not the same as sent to any other browser), and did it by accident. Especially as Opera 7 renders essentially identically to IE, there wasn't a reason for them to even have an Opera specific page, it's not like they can claim it was needed and they just screwed it up.
Well, MS's just made another enemy, one who'll have an opportunity to present evidence against them at the trial in the EU. It's actually likely to cost MS a lot. The MS corporate line is that they have done stuff they aren't proud of, but that they're past that now. A nice current example of their dishonesty will really hurt in the judgement phase by showing that small judgements at teaching them.
Re:I love this (Score:4, Informative)
As shown by the above link, if MSN had spent less money and *not* developed specific opera pages, they would have enhanced the Opera compatibility of the code.
Elmer Fudd (Score:5, Funny)
I would like to have an Elmer Fudd version so I can get it along with my google preferences!
Re:Elmer Fudd (Score:3, Interesting)
Works with any browser.
I Am Holding Out for the "Bjork" Edition... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I Am Holding Out for the "Bjork" Edition... (Score:5, Funny)
..or the 'Borg' edition... (Score:4, Funny)
Good idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good idea! (Score:5, Funny)
In any case, I find things at AOL [aol.com], MSN [msn.com], and Yahoo [yahoo.com] to be just as offensive as goatse [goatse.cx].
Basically, to all you goatse haters, get a sense of humor for fsck's sake. And for you moderators with no sense of humor, I have karma to burn. Give it to me baby [goatse.cx].
GF
Re:Good idea! (Score:3, Funny)
You're right, it is down. Unbelievable. Does anyone know what has happened to http://goatse.cx/? [goatse.cx] Is it down permanately? Why was it shut down? Too much bandwidth?
People might not have liked it, but it has become a internet icon of sorts. Bring back http://goatse.cx/!!! [goatse.cx]
Re:Good idea! (Score:5, Informative)
Surreal... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Surreal... (Score:3, Funny)
-1, I'm offended
+1, I like to play with my poopie
Blenders? (Score:5, Funny)
It's like putting a moose in the blender -- a recipe for disaster!
I guess that pretty much describes MSN, Windows ME or any other dubious MS product (i.e. more dubious than the rest of their products that I can't be arsed to list here).
Oh, and where did the moose/blender term come from? I'm starting to get a little worried about the mental health of the Opera team.. I just hope they don't do a strategic alliance with Joe Cartoon, you know he likes blenders!
Re:Blenders? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.almac.co.uk/chef/chef/picsound/chef1
M
The dialectizer, for your obfuscating pleasure (Score:5, Interesting)
Just type in the URL you want to see, and the dialect in which you would like to see it.
Re:The dialectizer, for your obfuscating pleasure (Score:4, Funny)
Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Screenshot (Score:5, Informative)
Borked [thedomainworks.com]
Huh. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Huh. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Huh. (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny how that broken stylesheet was the same thing MSN served to Opera 6, and it worked just fine in that browser. So as a result, MSN fixed the stylesheet so it'd work in Opera 7, and now Opera 6 is broke (according to Opera's press release, I don't have O6 to check with).
Sounds like Microsoft put in the invalid CSS to compensate for a bug in O6 (which doesn't handle CSS on list elements properly), and that behavior changed in O7, leading to the clipped text.... which Opera whined loudly about not one week after their browser came out, probably before Microsoft was even informed O7 looked different than O6.
But of course it's more fun to blame it on Microsoft trying to make Opera look bad, rather than the actual reason that Opera fucked up.
I really hope Microsoft goes after Opera for this specific borking of msn.com. Opera's childish antics in this situation deserve it.
Re:Huh. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know, I guess this strikes me as petty somehow.
It would have been petty if they had put this into their main release, so that everybody using Opera had to put up with it. You know, sort of like how MS put it into the main release of their web page, so that every Opera user has to put up with it.
The Opera folks very clearly set aside the "joke" browser, and they've stated very clearly why they are doing it. People who don't want to mess with it won't accidentally stumble acrsos it. They're pointing out, in a manner that makes it very obvious, just what it is that MS is doing. And if the article is right, and MS is still screwing up older versions of Opera, then contacting the MS team clearly hasn't done much good.
-Rob
Re:Huh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Huh. (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, it's been reported in all the major tech news online sites two weeks ago.
Seriously, if one of my clients' web page was in worldwide news because of a problem that involves fixing one line of CSS, I'd be sure to fix it the very next day.
MS, however, hasn't fixed it in 14 days. Go figure.
Hold on here (Score:4, Interesting)
The MSN site is sending Opera users what appear to be intentionally distorted pages. The Bork edition illustrates how browsers could also distort content, as the Bork edition does. The real point here is that the success of the Web depends on software and Web site developers behaving well and rising above corporate rivalry The Opera acticle is a little less direct with it's acusations. I realise this is
Can any opera users confirm if the style sheets are still messed up ? If they are they I might start subscribing to the conspiracy theory, but really his smacks of a childish attempt to grab attention. I would guess the Netscape, Moz and Phoenix share of the market is of much more concern to MS than Opera
Re:Hold on here (Score:5, Insightful)
Opera is so good, people are happy to pay money for it, or are prepared to have a constant banner ad on the screen. That makes Opera a serious commercial rival. Couple that with the fact Opera is their major rival [theregister.co.uk] in the mobile phone market, a market MS desperately wants control of, and you start to understand why it is suspicious that the Opera stylesheet for MSN mysteriously changed a few days after Opera 7 rolled out.
Re:Hold on here (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, MSN sends crap CSS to Opera.
Yes, MS takes Opera serious, they are being losing ground on mobile market, TO OPERA, not Moz/Netscape.
No you didn't read the press release, did you?
Re:Hold on here (Score:3, Informative)
enough is enough (Score:5, Informative)
I have fucking had it with all this "voice of moderation" karma whoring.
IIRC the source of the problem was a single incorrect figure in the style sheet. NO possiblity whatsoever of a typo there then.
Okay, let me get this straight. You develop a completely seperate css file to work against the user agent string sent by Opera browsers, despite the fact that Opera can easily handle the default stylesheet. So your characterization of a single incorrect figure is incorrect:
My research indicates that you are off by two thousand six hundred twenty six characters. In this completely fucking seperate stylesheet, you copy shared values by hand rather than copy/paste and place -30px (a value which, in the css universe, is insane) rather than 23px for the standard production stylesheet. This is a typo in your universe?Can any opera users confirm if the style sheets are still messed up ?
From TFA:
Moderators, please, stop mistaking skepticism for insight.
Re:Hold on here (Score:4, Insightful)
The others need to jump on the bandwagon (Score:5, Funny)
These are gonna kick ass!
An Open Letter to Opera Software (Score:5, Funny)
You can send this letter to Opera Software using their feedback page [opera.com].
Google-a seerch (Score:5, Funny)
Childish (Score:2, Insightful)
Who here thinks their incentive to do that has been increased by this move?
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Childish (Score:5, Informative)
Håkon Wium Lie
CTO, Opera Software
Re:Childish (Score:5, Insightful)
Opera wasn't broken yet MS decided it needed to be fixed (as is fixing a cat).
Re:Childish (Score:3, Informative)
http://people.opera.com/~howcome/2003/2/msn/ [opera.com]
Re:Childish (Score:5, Insightful)
Web-sites have no business sending different content to different browsers in the first place. There is never any need to change anything you send; just settle for whatever subset of valid content still looks good in the majority of browsers.
Particularly in the case of CSS, it's up to the browser to choose whether to render it or not, and if so, there's lots of scope for how it's done.
If website authors learned this small fact, assigning the bug to the correct party would not be a problem.
Re:Childish (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, different content for different browsers is completely appropriate.
Re:Childish (Score:3, Informative)
Well, you understand it wrong. Yes, the page sent to Opera7 renders fine in Opera6 - but the page sent to MSIE6 renders fine in Opera6 and Opera7. So why the special Opera style sheet? It doesn't require one.
So what was wrong is MSN's version checking code, not some grand campaign against Opera. In fact, the very fact that this alternative stylesheet existed shows that Microsoft had put in extra work and tried to provide Opera users with a usable page. Who here thinks their incentive to do that has been increased by this move?
Yes, they put extra work into something that they didn't need to do, and the result made their website render poorly in Opera7. You hit it right on the head. Kudos to Opera for not taking it lying down.
Other side of the coin (Score:2, Interesting)
This is cute, this is funny, ha ha. But it sets a BAD precedent. Next iteration of IE borks or bjorks or beans slashdot or whomever, then opera does it to yahoo or someone, pretty soon you need two browsers--one for each half of the web that isn't borked.
Re:Other side of the coin (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hergee berger snooger bork," says Mary Lambert, product line manager desktop, Opera Software. "This is a joke. However, we are trying to make an important point. The MSN site is sending Opera users what appear to be intentionally distorted pages. The Bork edition illustrates how browsers could also distort content, as the Bork edition does. The real point here is that the success of the Web depends on software and Web site developers behaving well and rising above corporate rivalry."
Does that help you at all?
Tom.
Re:Other side of the coin (Score:5, Insightful)
If a special version IE did that to linux.com or opera's webpage, you'd all be up in arms, converging on Microsoft's campus with torches and pitchforks, even if it was meant as 'good humored'. Look, I download a browser to SHOW ME THE PAGE I AM GOING TO. If, oh, lets say msn.com doesn't work, then either I'll switch browsers or NOT GO TO THE PAGE.
Your righteous rage might be a little more justified if it were a main version of Opera that did this. As it is, though, the only people who will get this will be the ones who know about the joke and are specifically downloading the joke version of Opera. It would be a very different matter if this were a "trojan" sort of thing in their main release, but since it's not, sit down, relax a bit, and take a few deep breaths.
-Rob
Re:Other side of the coin (Score:3, Informative)
Uh, it's a special version. You download the Bork version specifically to see a "Borked" MSN page. The regular Opera doesn't do this.
Here's a Screenshot (Score:3, Informative)
Anticompetitive? (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Opera is a competitor.
3) MS is using it's webiste (a different product) to maintain it's monopoly.
Isn't this almost the definition of illegal monopolistic practices? I think the definition is slightly different, like "Using a monopoly to further your business in another area." They're "Using another area to further a monopoly."
Hmm... Perhaps if IE was distorting the Opera web page, it would be the exact definition.
But then again
1) MSN is not a monopoly on ISP's (or portals?)
2) IE is a monopoly on browsers.
3) Making opera apear broken will make more people use IE.
4) IE's default homepage is MSN.
5) MSN is benefiting from IE's monopoly and unfair business practices against opera.
So perhaps that fits the definition more closely?
(can't help my self...)
6) ???
7) Make money
Obligitory Screenshot (Score:4, Informative)
Thanks rdesktop!
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Now all we need... (Score:5, Funny)
Translation Skins (Score:3, Interesting)
I predict... (Score:5, Funny)
To all the naysayers... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, if I may so repeat myself, lighten up!
Legal Beagle (Score:3, Interesting)
Won't they (i.e. MS) sue?
Not only the MSN page is in Bork... (Score:5, Informative)
"
Zee oothur ooff thees sufftvere-a is Defeed M. Gey. Bork Bork Bork!
Cupyreeght (c) 1991, 2000, 2001 by Loocent Technulugeees. Bork Bork Bork!
Permeessiun tu use-a, cupy, mudeeffy, und deestriboote-a thees sufftvere-a fur uny poorpuse-a veethuoot fee-a is hereby grunted, prufeeded thet thees inture-a nuteece-a is inclooded in ell cupeees ooff uny sufftvere-a vheech is oor incloodes a cupy oor mudeefficeshun ooff thees sufftvere-a und in ell cupeees ooff zee sooppurteeng ducoomenteshun fur sooch sufftvere-a. Bork Bork Bork!
THIS SOFTVERE IS BEING PROFIDED "ES IS", VITHOOoT ENY IXPRESS OoR IMPLIED VERRENTY. IN PERTICOoLER, NEITHER THE EOoTHOR NOR LOoCENT MEKES ENY REPRESENTETION OoR VERRENTY OoF ENY KIND CONCERNING THE MERCHENTEBILITY OoF THIS SOFTVERE OoR ITS FITNESS FOR ENY PERTICOoLER POoRPOSE. Bork Bork Bork!
"
finally MSN is usable (Score:5, Funny)
Opera, the Bork Edition does what MSN editors have failed to do, make MSN a site that people want to visit.
Joe M Soft said, "Wow after the Bork Edition was released, web hits increased over 10000%. I can't believe all of the positive comments I have recieved."
In other news, Microsoft signs the Swedish Chef to be Editor at Large.
Oh, THAT Bork... (Score:5, Funny)
Great way to get PR outside of geek community... (Score:3, Interesting)
Kjella
Re:Bork? (Score:3, Funny)
Remind me to tell you the monkey story sometime.
Re:screenshot? (Score:2)
Re:screenshot? (Score:4, Informative)
Check it out here:
http://poriss.com/bork.gif [poriss.com]
Re:oh, the crazy Swedes (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How to beat MSN (Score:2)
Re:Juvenile & extrememly bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Juvenile & extrememly bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Juvenile & extrememly bad idea (Score:5, Informative)
This is exactly what they are trying to prove: any browser manufacturer could do this kind of things and everybody would lose in the end. Here is a quote from the Opera press release:
So they are fully aware of the consequences. They are releasing this as a joke to show how silly this could be and also to raise the awareness of this potential problem.
Re:Juvenile & extrememly bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
They specifically did it for one page for a limited time on a specially named release of the software to show that 1) this is juvenile, and 2) both content providers and browser writers can be juvenile and it could get an arms escalation. With the point being: nobody should do this to begin with.
Yes, it's mildly unprofessional. In my book, that's okay, because professionals today would either 1) sue them or 2) do it back without saying anything and CYA in a long EULA. It's rare that a company tries to make their point with a little bit of wit, probably because it'll be lost on some people.
Re:Juvenile & extrememly bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
This isn't being advertised as Opera's main browser. It's being advertised as an offshoot, special-purpose, no-other-really-good-use browser. If they had put this into their main browser, then yes, I would agree with you, but this was done as a joke. It's no worse than any parody done on Saturday Night Live. In a month or so, we'll all have had our laugh and have forgotten the entire event.
Re:+5 Funny.. (Score:3, Informative)
Working with MS to correct an attack on the Opera browser is like, euh, like asking MS behave well and rise above corporate rivalry.
Well, thats what Opera asked...
Re:standards? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:standards? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.opera.com/js/bork/encheferizer.js [opera.com]
Re:Bahahahahahah (Score:3, Insightful)
You appear not to have read the story (Score:5, Informative)
MSN now allows access to users of Opera 7, but is still targeting and sending users of earlier versions a broken page.
Phillip.
Re:Cool !!! (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft Free Fridays [unlikely.org]
It's not the desktop (Score:3, Interesting)
Opera 7 has very sophisticated rendering functions for small screens. For example Nokia uses Opera on its communicator and it's press releases like this one [opera.com], which provides the Redmond paranoiacs with the willies.
Re:Why Opera? (Score:3, Insightful)