.NETly News 301
Lots of .NET stories in the news today and yesterday; it's a total coincidence that Microsoft started a huge marketing push on Wednesday, including the occasional Doubleclick ad running on Slashdot. BrendanL79 writes: "Peter Wright at Salon.com contributes to public awareness of Microsoft's .NET with this exuberant piece. The praise borders on sycophancy ("Gutenberg ... Babbage ... now Gates") with no apparent tongue in his cheek. Comments?" Reader vw writes: "Active State has just released Visual Perl 1.2, Visual Python 1.2, and Visual XSLT 1.2 as plugins for Microsoft's Visual Studio .NET. Wonder how long it will take for a Mono hack." Numerous readers pointed to several stories about a buffer overflow problem in Visual Studio .NET which was supposed to be immune to buffer overflows - but it had passed Microsoft's stringent new security audit.
No buffer overflows? (Score:1)
What?!?
Doesn't .NET allow developers to explicitly include "dangerous" code? I would say then that .NET is not immune to these problems.
Re:No buffer overflows? (Score:3, Funny)
Wrong. Java 1.4 has the same thing, an undocumented feature with the exact same name that hypocrit Bill Joy bashed. Yes that's right, Sun included something called 'Unsafe' mode for Java code, that lets it write all over memory to its hearts content. Don't tell Bill Joy though, he's likely to spasm from being called on his lie.
(PS I love Java. But Bill Joy is a LIAR and should be called on his LIE.)
Re:Here's a reference (Score:2, Interesting)
2. It may be undocumented but you can do the exact same thing with the documented java.nio.ByteBuffer [sun.com]
3. It's not that 'unsafe' you can only access bytes in memory you have allocated yourself
And now, the C++ version (Score:2)
Since what you wrote would be bordering on getting you fired in many C++ jobs, here is a listing that shows what you were trying to do.
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
int main()
{
string buffer;
cout << "enter string ->";
getline(cin, buffer);
cout << "Your text \"" << buffer << "\" did not cause a buffer overflow." << endl;
return 0;
}
That's now overflow-safe, and missing the newbie mistakes.
Re:And now, the C++ version (Score:2)
I appreciate what you were trying to prove, I just disagree with it. It's possible to write bad, buggy and/or dangerous code in pretty much any language. But using a language reasonably well often avoids the pitfalls. In this example, C++ doesn't leave you open to buffer overruns if you choose to use the tools it provides appropriately.
You might like to read this article [btinternet.co.uk] on why container classes are usually a better choice than arrays in C++, and the most likely times you'd still want to use a raw array. Much the same arguments could be made for using raw pointers (usually bad) vs. using smart pointers, references or some other mechanism altogether (usually resulting in safer and cleaner code).
BTW, friendly tip: just because a college course tells you something is C++, don't believe it on pure faith. Many college instructors and many books on C++ are very bad and really don't know their subject. Somehow, people wouldn't accept a physics teacher who didn't know about F=ma, but they do accept a C++ teacher who doesn't know that main always returns an int. <sigh> If you want to find genuinely good books on C++ (or C, Java, and various related topics), you might try visiting the Association of C and C++ Users' [accu.org] web site, and looking through their book reviews.
congrats (Score:3, Funny)
Am I the only person who is hesitent about this? (Score:4, Funny)
Am I the only person who is just a little afraid to have all of my personal information online? There is just too little right now to keep it secure. Maybe when we are on IPv6 it will be better. But it becomes too easy to hit a few buttons and accidentally abort your new baby instead of inform your parents.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:3, Insightful)
Although I think that this new technology is going to take away from those accidental meetings I hope that, if it delivers on its promise, it will provide more time to create opportunities for human interaction. But then again, all the technology that we create to save time seems to require more time than we save to keep the technology saving us time. Wordy but true. I don't advocate a return to simpler times... I would die without my connection to the internet. But a week or two where I could just focus on getting to know the people around me while also getting to know more about the earth I am on would be a great thing.
Anyone for a camping trip? If you have 15 km of optical cable just laying around... we could run it down to our site and not miss
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:3, Insightful)
At Kroger in Atlanta you can check yourself out with a mostly automated system (you still need a guy to manage every four units to check IDs and whatnot) that allows you to check out without having to deal with lines or bored cashiers.
Let's face it -- there are some things machines do better than people and ringing up groceries is only one of them (booking most airline tickets is another). The only advantage a cashier has over a machine is the ability to smile and ask how my day is, and if he/she isn't going to bother to do that, I'll take a machine any day.
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:2)
We have that in Dallas, too. It has its uses, but if I have a lot of produce to weigh, or weird-shaped items to bag, I'll take a human cashier. Not only do they bag your stuff for you, they don't ask you to "PLACE THE ITEM BACK IN THE BAG" every 30 frickin' seconds.
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:3, Interesting)
How long did it take for Microsoft to dominate the desktop market? They released Windows 1.0 a long time before OS/2 fell off the competitive map.
Microsofts domination kinda snuck up on everyone, since the IT industry assumed that there would allways be a company to compete with Bill&Co in the OS/Office Productivity space. This time, no such assumptions will be made. If they actually get something like this off the ground, there will be lots of people (Miguel) making great things that compete with Microsoft's offerings by the time it gets pervasive enough.
I'd suggest you take this for what it is at a base level - something that could be useful and cool. Remember, it is possible to enter a cage with a dangerous beast [crocodilehunter.com], as long as you know what to expect and how to counter it's natural responses.
IMHO, it's time to accept Microsoft as an industry leader. You just have to think of them in the same way that you do a clueless PHB.
Soko
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:2)
A clueless PHB is an industry leader. Buggy whip industry maybe?
I do think of Microsoft in the same way that I do a clueless PHB. As something I would be better off without.
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:2, Flamebait)
bad attitude.
Bullshit. That's not what I'm saying at all - I'm saying that reality must be accepted, and in order to really change things, we need to deal with the fact that Microsoft is a major industry player who won't simply be swept aside. Technologies that they introduce will be deployed, no matter how much you and I know that they involve "Vendor lock-in" and "Embrace and Extend". Remember Spartacus [hyperhistory.com]? That's what happens when you try to do battle with an opponent with a superior position (read: marketshare, not technology) on thier terms - you run head long into being crucified.
Not me. I'd rather try to change the nature of the beast, and therefore change the nature of the struggle to terms I can actually deal with.
You can put your tin-foil hat back on now, BTW.
Soko
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:2)
What will more LIKELY happen (Score:2)
1) They'll be paranoid of having all that info available
2) There will just be too many friggen features for folks to care.
I don't know about you, but I programmed the addressbook for my FIRST phone. Three phones later, I pick the thing up and use it to dial numbers. I don't use the IR, I don't have it sync with my palm pilot, and I don't send two way messages, I just use it as a digital 'can and string' to talk to people.
Us Slashdot folks are pretty savvy gadget freaky people. That doen't mean my Mom's going to program her favorite MP#^H^H^HWMA's to play on Tuesday when the humidity is high and she's the only person at home.
YES (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Am I the only person who is hesitent about this (Score:2)
that location better be under control of an independend body!
And what independent body would be better than you. Nobody else in the world has a better reason to keep your personal information a secret than you. Zimran Ahmed of winterspeak.com has the best solution. Instead of letting Microsoft keep my name , address, phone number and credit card number, how about I get a keyboard macro program like Perfect keyboard or RoboType and write a couple of clever macros to fill in spaces for me. Now I have the same functionality, but I only have to worry about someone breaking into my house, which has never happened, and I don't have to worry about someone breaking into Microsofts software, which happens daily.
Perl, Python under .NET? (Score:3, Insightful)
At least, I assume that's the case. If somebody had managed to create
Re:Perl, Python under .NET? (Score:3, Interesting)
As a python fan I had high hopes that Python would be the only language to bridge the JVM-CLR religious war and allow you to work in both.
It seems that ActiveState is just plugging in Python to VS, not compiling python to IL.
Re:Perl, Python under .NET? (Score:2)
However, I think they managed to do something else, like use the
ActiveState [activestate.com] has a lot of documentation about this on their site, specifically under PerlNET; it's worth taking a look.
Re:Perl, Python under .NET? (Score:2)
Last I looked, they weren't going to pursue a complete implementation.
Re:Perl, Python under .NET? (Score:3, Informative)
Visual Perl and Visual Python are development environments for Perl and Python for people that are using Visual Studio.
PerlNET takes any Perl code and wraps it up as a
If there is enough interest in a PythonNET, we will build that.
-- Dick
Re:Perl, Python under .NET? (Score:2)
More FUD (Score:1)
the beer went thru my nose... (Score:4, Funny)
am i the only one who reads this as
"we now pay attention to compiler warnings"
;)
Re:the beer went thru my nose... (Score:2)
gcc -Wall is for wimps -- you should follow the Tao and *just know* when you have a possible security problem. Besides everyone knows that MS codes in INTERCAL... what does the error
240 ERROR HANDLER PRINTED SNIDE REMARK
ON THE WAY TO %d
or
222 BUMMER, DUDE!
ON THE WAY TO %d
really tell you?
Sycophants? (Score:2, Funny)
Microsoft has apologists? No way!
Salon article (Score:2, Insightful)
As if this were a bad thing.
Story not complete (Score:5, Informative)
I dare you. (Score:2, Interesting)
hmm, might be a good one for ask slashdot.
Re:I dare you. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I dare you. (Score:3, Informative)
The Simplest Way to Define .NET [microsoft.com] by Sanjay Parthasarathy, Vice President, Platform Strategy, Microsoft Corp.
Re:I dare you. (Score:2)
your link basically says:
-buzztalk.(webservices trie tier bla bal bla)
-Get
But then i asked for this bij allowing a link into MS
Re:I dare you. (Score:2)
I agree, the AC's link [microsoft.com] is more informative from a developer's perspective. That link is about the .NET Framework, which is only a piece of the first out of five parts of what .NET is, listed in the link [microsoft.com] I cited. So it answers maybe 10% of your original question.
Your question was "what is .NET", not "what is the .NET Framework." I answered what you said, not what you meant. Answering the question "what is .NET" requires a higher-level, "marketecture" description, since it is excessively broad, and isn't just about programming. Answering the question "what is .NET" with a definition of the .NET Framework would unnecessarily confuse a person who just wanted to know the big picture.
your link basically says: .NET studio, read the docs.
-buzztalk.(webservices trie tier bla bal bla)
-Get
Web Services are an important part of what .NET is about from a developer perspective. As far as the importance of reading the .NET studio docs, that's where the AC's link came from. If the marketecture summaries don't cut it, then you're just gonna have to drill down into the details that interest you. The details of the .NET Framework are comprehensively documented here [microsoft.com].
Re:Story not complete (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft's alternative, of course, was to create a totally safe environment that wouldn't run any legacy code and wouldn't allow direct calls into the OS. But of course that's been done before (Java). Remember,
Tone of the article (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Tone of the article (Score:2)
FYI, articles with opinion are called editorials. They usually have a picture of the person writing the article (in Salon's case it's a sketch). As was said in the post, I don't think this is tongue-in-cheek
I have nothing against
The point I'm making is that gushing like this is usually reserved for lesser publications. If I want to read a guy's opinion, I'll go read Dvorak on ZDNET. Salon had a pretty high standing in my books as a reputable news source, not some place that kissed the feet of new technologies - the downsides of
Re:Tone of the article (Score:2)
A very good point - I did neglect to check his credentials. We all know though that ultimately it's Salon's editors who need to screen these articles to present a consistent version of what they consider 'newsworthy' in order to keep their image, especially in the high tech community.
Slashdot regularly links Salon articles, no doubt generating significant traffic (and thus revenues) for Salon (via their annoying pop-up advertising, which is worth it for great articles). If geeks think that Salon is just another high tech site spewing garbage, negative feedback will grow and stories will stop being linked, that's just the way it is. I liked Salon the way it was in my mind before I read this article
Gowachin law (Score:2)
I, and I suspect most other people, have the same attitude about journalism. We don't mind that there's a slant, but we want there to be at least an attempt at balance.
Since there's a lot of uncertainty over exactly what
But this article made it sound like the Gnome team was ecstatic to follow Bill's brilliant lead. In fact, one key guy said that it will have to work with
This article made it sound like Microsoft had a few minor problems with security in the past, but the have bright people working on the problem and it's all behind us now. In fact, many of us believe that the
Finally he assured everyone that there would be plenty of authentication services other than Passport, despite the fact that this is one area that Microsoft is holding close to its chest and it's far from certain that the alternate authentication services will be useful.
Overall, this piece wasn't biased, it was flat-out prejudiced. Nothing
Python Dev Under VS.NET IDE (Score:2, Insightful)
Speaking about Python, does anyone know when the final release of ActivePython 2.2 will be released? It has been in "Alpha" for a while and the product page hasn't been updated in a while.
Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2, Insightful)
"In 1454, Johann Gutenberg changed the world forever when the first of his Bibles rolled off the world's first printing press. Three centuries later, in 1791, Charles Babbage was born. Best known for his Difference Engine and Analytical Engine, his work is widely acknowledged as providing the earliest steppingstones from which the modern computer would emerge. Again, the world would never be the same. From the article:
William Henry Gates arrived on the planet in 1951. Whether you love him or detest him with every ounce of your moral fiber, there is no denying the contribution Bill has made to this earth. Without Microsoft, the PC we have today would be a very different beast."
Does anyone truly believe that Gates has made a positive contribution to "this earth", other than his (admittedly laudable) charitable works?
From a technological standpoint, the only thing you can really say he has helped (and I say helped because he certainly cannot claim sole credit) achieve is the positioning of computers in everyday non-geek life. Even that would have happened sooner or later has Gates not existed.
This type of melodramatic, snivelling hyperbole is starting to crop up all over the IT press, with reviews reading like commercials and biographies gushing with misplaced hero-worship.
Ick.
Re:Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2)
Re: Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2)
> From a technological standpoint, the only thing you can really say he has helped (and I say helped because he certainly cannot claim sole credit) achieve is the positioning of computers in everyday non-geek life. Even that would have happened sooner or later has Gates not existed.
Just 3-4 years ago, if you walked into a computer store, picked up a game, and read the requirements sticker, it would say "IBM PC or 100% Compatible". The switch to "Windows" is relatively recent.
It was the IBM brand name that 'legitimized' the PC, not Microsoft, not Bill Gates. And frankly I think IBM got into the game because they could see that Apple and others were going to do it anyway, with them or without them.
Pantheon (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2)
If you read closesly, even he admits that the ideas in
Re:Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2)
This is REALLY scary. According to Bill's bio on his home page, Bill was born on Oct 28, 1955. So if he arrived on the planet in 1951, he clearly learns to time travel some time in the future. Thus we have the spectre that Bill was working as early as 1951 with foreknowledge of the coming computer revolution to cement Microsoft's place as the dominant force in the PC revolution.
What chance does humankind have now? Are we truly DOOMED?
Re:Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2)
How about Linus & Co.? The open and free software movements have donated probably $50-billion+ worth of wealth to the world in software and services over the years. Where's their statue?
Re:Those opening paragraphs... (Score:2)
Got news for you... while the Mac has certainly influenced the industry, it did NOT popularize the computer onto everyone's desktop. That was DOS -- and then Windows.
Guttenberg, Babbage, & Gates (Score:2)
Re:Guttenberg, Babbage, & Gates (Score:2, Informative)
The reasons Babbage never developed a prototype are different from different sources. He spent a LOT of the money he was given for the analytical engine designing the (more general purpose) difference engine.
Eventually the government got fed up of giving him money - he'd burned through a
In addition he fell out with his leading craftsman who he accused of padding the contract, and spent quite a lot building workshops and so on at his house in order to develop things on-site.
The analytical engine was definitely acheivable at the time. The difference engine more doubtably so. But while the technology was willing, the project management was missing. Something the IT industry still hasn't learned...
Re:Guttenberg, Babbage, & Gates (Score:2)
Babbage did have an actual working section of the Difference Engine, and enough parts were made to almost finish it. After a delay caused by his conflicts with his parts maker, he got distracted by his new ideas for the Analytical Engine, and never bothered to finish the original. So he was not only one of the first to do computer design, he was also one of the first examples of a very common person today: a brilliant but stubborn and impossible-to-manage developer who doesn't keep focused on deliverables. He was ahead of his time in many ways!
Ballmer on Mono (Score:2, Interesting)
I put this in quotes but I'm paraphrasing based on my best recollection. I gotta give him credit for being accessible and for answering questions. Still can't help hating him, though.
.Net fails the pr0n test (Score:5, Funny)
Human history has shown that with the advent of any new important media, pr0n has never been far behind. The printing press? One estimate says that within 10 years 30% of all presses were being used for pr0n. Glossy magazines? Pr0n. Pictures on your computer screen? Pr0n. The Web? Pr0n.
The simple fact is that
Re:.Net fails the pr0n test (Score:2)
"betting the company" on a buffer overflow (Score:2)
Compiler: Stackguard! (Score:5, Informative)
It's not actually a _compiler_ overflow.
Instead, it's a subversion of the "buffer overflow protection" that's built-in to the compiler. The most startling piece of this technical review is that the Microsoft "Overflow Protection" in the compiler appears to be a port of StackGuard. The reviewers point out that an examination of the binary output reveals that the compiled code is nearly identical to the StackGuard output.
But stackguard is an option. (Score:3, Insightful)
Switching it OFF will turn off the stackguard functionality and you can build your code without it, but have to check buffer overflows yourself.
So it's perhaps wise to switch it ON in debug builds plus release builds that are tested, and switch it OFF in release builds that are deployed to customers.
Re:But stackguard is an option. (Score:2, Insightful)
Gotta disagree with you on this one. You can't do testing on a different program than you release, and something like StackGuard produces a different program. Stuff like that's great for debugging/development, but if your still using it in final testing you should ship with it and eat the preformance hit.
Re:Compiler: Stackguard! (Score:2)
Researchers at Cigital, of Dulles, Va., found that Microsoft apparently adopted a technique that has been used with the Linux (news - web sites) operating system and shown to be vulnerable to attack, the Journal said. [yahoo.com]
Six weeks early? (Score:2)
I'm scared.
Peter Wright makes his money from MS (Score:4, Insightful)
-Isaac
This is not news. Doesn't ANYONE study history (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's see, unified runtime, libraries of code with multiple versions, simplified networked object support, standardized metadata...
OpenStep circa 1995.
Sure, OS used plists instead of XML (which didn't exist), a private system instead of UDDI (which didn't exist) and was aimed at C people instead of Java (whichy didn't exist) but the broad strokes are the same:
A multi-platform runtime with standardized libraries, which can exist as multiple versions (with resources) at the same time, with objects that can write themselves out so they can be manipulated as flat data (for storage or network invocation).
The differences are interesting too,
I'm sure other "old timers" will have their own similar systems to include for comparison, but the real point is not that OpenStep did it, but that SOMEONE did it.
And years later no one is using OS (mostly), whereas I'm sure five years from now
Maury
Re:This is not news. Doesn't ANYONE study history (Score:3, Interesting)
> Once again I find myself ashamed to be a part of an industry that can't
> remember anything five years into the past.
> before, many times. The only news here is the hype, as always.
>
> Let's see, unified runtime, libraries of code with multiple versions,
> simplified networked object support, standardized metadata...
>
> OpenStep circa 1995.
You can go back even farther than that. OpenStep was based on NeXT, which was created by Steve Jobs in 1989. In 1990, it was used to create the world's first web server and client. NeXT was the cradle of the web itself! (http://www.netvalley.com/intvalnext.html)
> And years later no one is using OS (mostly), whereas I'm sure five
> years from now
> That's the power of marketting. Look how well it worked on the droid
> on Salon.
The plists are in XML now, but NeXT lives on in its beautiful child: Mac OS X. In fact, the new G4 iMacs running OS X are the only desktop computers on the planet that can be said to be "selling like hotcakes".
Apple is still selling WebObjects, only at $699 instead of $50,000. OS X ships with the Apache web server included. OS X is the best Java 2 desktop, with a full set of J2SE development tools in the OS X boxed version or as a free download or for $20 FedEx shipping. J2EE tools are readily available in open source or commercial form. If you don't care about portability, you can rapidly create a Cocoa front end on your application, and use any J2SE or J2EE classes on the back end to create a native compiled application with all the power of Java. If you are careful to separate the GUI classes from the rest, you can use the RAD Cocoa front end for prototyping, and replace it with a Swing front end after the back end is tested.
Apple's big goal in life right now is 10% of the market (probably with 20% coming after that
Microsoft? Well they mostly give me the urge to loose my lunch.
On December 14, 1996, Mothra resurrected an apple tree.
On December 14, 2001, she returned to see its fruit:
OS X, the Apple of Mothra's Aqua eye.
It's news because MS is doing it (Score:2)
This is not a troll, nor is it MS hype. It is the truth - .Net is going to be big, if soley for the one reason that MS is behind it. That fact alone is going to push THOUSANDS of projects around it, both from inside MS and also outside, as developers ramp up into all the nifty things Visual Studio .Net is capable of.
Sure, it's beed done before. Sure, it's alot like java. The difference is that the worl's biggest software monopoly is behind it. You think if Joe hacker had come up with this idea of an IL and common runtime and submitted it to the ECMA, it'd be this big a deal? No, but the fact that the operating system that sits on 90% of the worlds desktops is going to be running this stuff makes it one.
.Net isn't something to be taken lightly, nor is it something to be bashed. Miguel has the right idea, .Net can be AWESOME for linux if a capable Open Source development environment and runtime can be created. Think about it - no more wine. Programs compiled for windows instantly run on Linux. GTK and QT programs run on Linux. Instant interoperability. It will be all the things Java promised to be, but never delivered on. Mainly because it's backed by this goliath, MS. Sure, Sun had their chance, but they ruined it. Not to mention that .Net GUi programs will run light-years faster than Java ones, mainly because the System.Window.Forms classes will have low-level access to the MS api's, as will their GTK counterparts.
Seriously, Don't be so quick to bash it. This thing is going to have huge implications for everyone.
Re:This is not news. Doesn't ANYONE study history (Score:2)
This idea is discussed a bit in the classic _Guns, Germs, and Steel_ (which won a Pulitzer Prize), where the author makes a strong case that an invention isn't nearly as important to a society as it is that the society is interested in the invention.
C//
C//
Salon lost major tech and street cred (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't have minded a piece on
But that fawning piece of crap was inexcusable. It was clearly written by the marketing department - no tech would ever favorably compare Bill Gates to Guttenberg - but it was presented as a straight story.
Now I'm going to find it impossible to take any other story the post seriously. I will always have to ask who really wrote the piece.
That's a shame - Salon has been a good thorn in the side of the powerful for a long time. Look at the old stories on the "Drug Czar" paying for anti-drug messages in prime time entertainment shows, or their coverage of the RIAA. But now there will always be a loud voice in the back of my head asking if this is another PR piece by the powerful.
Re:BS (Score:2)
A classic example of the latter was a product launch ad with very impressive music. Impressive funeral music for the damned. I remember recognizing the piece and thinking that it was an odd choice for a product launch... and a few days later it was yanked and the PR firm fired.
So I keep going around in circles on this - was it entirely written by an overzealous VB hack? Or did he flesh out an article outlined by a PR firm? The piece does not sound like something a tech author would write - it strikes the same false note.
Re:BS (Score:3, Funny)
The Microsoft emblem. Doesn't the trailing edge look like it's been out in the elements too long. Shattered. (Well it is Windows)
"Microsoft servers for small business let you connect with customers in ways you never have before." Somehow that sounds omnious.
My guess is that he has to say something, has nothing to say, and starts blithering.
.NET is SCRUMTRILESCENT! (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think you can discount it so easily:
About the writer
Peter Wright is a software consultant and the author of numerous books on Visual Basic programming. He is currently working on two
Have you read some of these quotes?
Bill Gates has already changed the face of the world as we know it, but his magnum opus has yet to be fully appreciated. On Wednesday, Microsoft unveiled Bill's greater masterpiece -- in the guise of the Visual Studio.Net development tools suite.
It would be easy to dismiss this as just another Microsoft product launch, just another example of the Redmond behemoth rolling ever onward in its quest to gain enough funds to brand a continent. Don't. Visual Studio.Net will have as profound an effect on the way that we live our lives as the labors of love Babbage and Gutenberg gave us. To dismiss Visual Studio.Net and the technology it encompasses is to go back in time and dismiss Henry Ford's automobile as a passing fad.
[several pages of excited babbling deleted]
As developers move to embrace
.Net marks the dawn of the third age of computing -- embrace it.
It reminded me of Will Ferrell's Actor's Studio sketch as well. ".Net is such a masterpiece that there are no words to describe it- so I will make one up: Scrumtrilescent."
I guess if you've been stuck with Visual Basic for the past several years, an MS ripoff of Java would look pretty interesting. I doubt that Java programmers are going to flock to
Re: Now Waaaaait a Minute here.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought about this, but two things make it hard for me to dismiss it as just a troll:
I want to dismiss it as a troll. If there was any type of framing by the usual staff, or it was within a week of April 1st I wouldn't give it a second thought.
But now I keep coming back to the fact that the Microsoft PR machine can link to this seemingly glowing comment in "Linux friendly" Salon. We may know it's totally out of character, but a PHB concerned about Hailstorm or
That makes me wonder if I've been playing the fool on other stories. Salon has been valuable precisely because the articles often surprise me, but it's precisely because I'm not knowledgeable about those topics that I'll mistake a 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge' troll for a serious piece.
Company releases new software. Film at 11 (Score:2)
In other news, Motor Trend covered the 2002 North American International Auto Show with two sentences: "Cobo Hall was filled with cars. Some of them were brand new."
Let me get this straight. Microsoft is, for better or worse, the most significant software company in the world. They have just released a profoundly significant update to their development environment. The computer trade media is paying more than just lip service to it all. And Michael somehow thinks it's media bias, simply because it's a company he doesn't like?
It's not a "total coincidence". It's news!
Re:Company releases new software. Film at 11 (Score:2)
Re:Stuff it (Score:2)
This "revolutionary" Bill Gates idea... (Score:2)
About the author... (Score:2)
the author of numerous books on Visual
Basic programming. He is currently
working on two
for release later this year.
Hmm. That explains a lot.
Michael, why must you be so ignorant? (Score:4, Informative)
From the summary (yes, it was written by Michael, not the submitters): Numerous readers pointed to several stories about a buffer overflow problem in Visual Studio .NET which was supposed to be immune to buffer overflows - but it had passed Microsoft's stringent new security audit.
Where to begin with this mess of falsehoods?
On a side note, since this only affects unmanaged code, it's not really related to the .NET/CLR stuff.
Technology Wars (Score:2)
It sounds like a Jon Katz essay!
Just kidding.
(Well, not really.)
I'm not sure how to take such exuberance. My first question after the reading the article was: is this guy on the Microsoft payroll?
And my second question was: just what, exactly, brought upon this sudden exuberance? A Microsoft PR push, perhaps? (I mean, the idea of web services -- while interesting -- still remains, I think, somewhat problematic -- at least in terms of security.)
The problem with these sorts of articles -- and I've seen similar articles about the e-book replacing the book, digital cameras replace film cameras -- is that the new technology (.NET, digital cameras, e-books) are always presented as if the choice is one or the other.
I'll grant that digital cameras -- especially the high end cameras -- are cool. But they don't do anything (yet) that film cameras can. (And, no, I'm not interested in a film versus digital debate -- I'm a darkroom guy -- always will be -- so I'll never concede that digital *replaces* film.)
Same with
I'm curious, though, why people think it *has* to be an exclusive thing when it comes to new technologies. Digital cameras *must* defeat film cameras. Ergo film is dead.
E-books *must* replace regular books. Ergo, I'm a pretentious jerk who thinks that the books will stay around. (And does it never dawn on anyone -- at least with the e-book versus book debate -- that there actually exists some people -- myself among them -- who *like* books because they're books? I mean, yeah, it sounds weird: but I like book-as-object. Not to be pretentious with. But just to hold, touch, smell. It's one of those subtle little joys I derive from life: a physical book. The actual thing. Nothing digital about it.)
Ditto with film: yeah digital stuff is interesting. But it's not yet gone anywhere that film cameras and darkroom work hasn't already gone. And no, instant picture previews on LCD viewscreens do not count. There are those of us who actually *like* the pace of a wet darkroom, like the tactile feel of printmaking and wet chemicals and attention to detail that wet darkroom work requires. But this is way, way off-topic...)
But this is just a viewpoint that I've been noticing lately: it's *got* to be the new stuff because we must kill off the "old" stuff. We must prove that film is indeed dead.
That books are indeed dead.
That anything non-.NET related is instantly "legacy" technology and therefore useless.
Is there no middle ground? No possibility of a hybrid? (Digital cameras for some studio work, sure, but -- cripes -- can anyone really beat a beautifully shot 4 X 5 negative carefully developed and printed? When it's done right, it's exquisite.)
And -- my last point -- the people hankering for the new technology are often quite venomous when it comes to trying to reconcile the old with the new. Those of us still in love with the old stuff, yeah, maybe we're behind the times, and old-farts, and pathetic people who can't appreciate the new stuff coming down the pike -- but geez. Somtimes it's nice to take a break from the "latest and greatest" and go back to the "old stuff"
Somtimes it just clears the head a bit.
.Net as a marketing strategy (Score:4, Insightful)
First, let's get the myth out of the way. .Net is not a product. It's a marketing term,
This is probably the most telling statment of the whole article. .Net is not about a new way of using computers, cool technology, security or any of the other things Microsoft is spouting. .Net is a buzz word driven marketing push and nothing else. It is not going to solve any problems that have not already been solved, introduce any new technology or bring world peace. Microsoft is going to spend the next several years spending billions of dollars to bring us .Net Notepad, .Net Solitaire and the new and improved .Net Virus.
I capped my karma a few days ago, so feel free to moderate me down, just don't expect me to care.
I love the productivity claims (Score:3, Funny)
Fine print:
... at shops like Microsoft where the entire design cycle consists of coding. In more mature shops where requirements analysis, specification, design, and QA take up 80-90% of the design cycle things may be a bit different.
MSNBC Security Alert On VS.NET is Political (Score:2, Insightful)
This is, in itself, not a security issue. The security issue is that anyone could potentially write a program that has buffer overflow problems.
And they likely left unsafe C++ ability in VS.NET so they retained backward compatibility with the bazillions of C++ programs already written.
This is just a political hack trying to take a swipe at MS after losing a security review contract.
The WSJ and MSNBC are notriously against Microsoft and this article is right in line with their more baseless attacks.
I'm not a fan of MS business practices and hope something drastic happens in the DOJ lawsuit, but this has nothing to do with VS.NET, which I think is an incredible development tool for _ALL_ of us, not just MS developers.
Salon's worsening coverage, with article quotes (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyway, here are some choice quotes from the article, which reads like Bill Gates himself wrote it:
"All hail
Microsoft's new software development tools are more than just nifty -- they are a great boon to humanity."
"In 1454, Johann Gutenberg changed the world forever when the first of his Bibles rolled off the world's first printing press. Three centuries later, in 1791, Charles Babbage was born. Best known for his Difference Engine and Analytical Engine, his work is widely acknowledged as providing the earliest steppingstones from which the modern computer would emerge. Again, the world would never be the same."
"William Henry Gates arrived on the planet in 1951. Whether you love him or detest him with every ounce of your moral fiber, there is no denying the contribution Bill has made to this earth. Without Microsoft, the PC we have today would be a very different beast. Without Microsoft, ".Net" would be just another domain name suffix."
"Right now, the Web is no more than a mirror image of the bad old mainframe days with dumb clients speaking to central all-powerful servers.
".Net and the fundamental concepts surrounding it are a major step forward for software development as a whole, and a stunning leap forward for realizing the true potential of the Internet as a means of communicating and sharing information."
"Now that it's finally available, Visual Studio.Net will usher in a new age of connectivity and usability the likes of which has only previously been imagined by science fiction authors. Every facet of our lives will be connected, but not from the point of view of increasing the pain we feel as slaves to our machines. The results of Visual Studio.Net's deployment will be an increased level of freedom, with the machines finally realizing their true potential as information manipulators and slaves to humanity."
CFR (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft started a huge marketing push on Wednesday, including the occasional Doubleclick ad running on Slashdot.
This simply won't do. We must have Campaign Finance Reform for the IT industry. Because Slashdot is receiving money from MS, they must be corrupt. Therefore, it should be illegal for MS to place ads 60 days before the release of a new product.
In all seriousness, if you only read Slashdot you might think that the DMCA is the only threat to free speech. Peal yourself away from the CRT a little bit and wake up to what a bunch of jerks we have in congress. It's like the constitution just fell of a high-wire, and fell through the first net. Now if the president signs this bill it will fall through the 2nd net, and if the Supreme Court doesn't wack it our freedom will fall into the abyss. You would never know that if you just read Slashdot.
This post paid for by the Radical National Committee to Criticize Politicians less than 60 days before an election.
That Salon article... (Score:2)
...was easily the most nauseating thing I've read since I gave up visiting osOpinion. It's a shame it didn't have a huge banner at the top of the proclaiming it for what it was: a thinly veiled Microsoft PR piece.
Of course, Salon doesn't care since all they seem to be interested in lately is page hits so their advertising revenues increase. I only wish that they'd restricted this .Net article to their premium content subscribers.
MS advertising on /. consequences? (Score:2)
I find this interesting in light of the easy ride advertisers and sister companies get:
Yesterday Taco described Sourceforge's licence change as "not a big deal."
I find it hard to tell if the editors do this of their own volition, or under team orders.
Nonetheless, if Microsoft are going to be doing adverts on slashdot, are slashdot going to hold off on Microsoft. And if they do, then what stories are they going to run? A good 10% of the stories and 50% of the regular users (90% of the trolls
not_cub
More Microsoft Notes (Score:2)
Rep. John Conyers questions Ashcroft's integrity in handling Microsoft case [nandotimes.com] - guess who got money from Microsoft?
On a personal note, I'd like to take a moment to bitch about the consultant that told our engineering team yesterday that we'd be switching from good 'ol reliable SMTP Unix mail servers (last outage: well, actually I don't think there has been one...) to Exchange (home of the global address list shut-down-your-worldwide-business-for-a-week bug, remember?) and virus-a-minute Outlook "for reasons of security". Amazingly, this pronouncement was completed with a straight face.
Python and Perl under .NET (Score:3, Interesting)
which seems to be a
they say on the web-site:
"PerlNET provides the following functionality:
Perl code runs at the same speed within
All extension modules, including the ones using XS code, are supported
PerlNET code is completely compatible with the standard Perl language, including the string form of eval and the runtime use of require
Features
Create
Wrap existing Perl modules into
Create new
Extend existing
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/Per
It seems that they really have done it !
python.net seems to be in a pre-alpha stage, as they say here:
"The Python for
and further:
"Probably the biggest single issue with Python for
(http://www.activestate.com/Initiatives/NET/Pyt
But it is only a matter of time that a python.net will exist.
DOH (Score:2, Interesting)
This isn't an anti-MS thing. That piece is some of the worst writing I've seen on a professional site in years, if not ever, on the web. It overly glorifies hyped up marketing concepts without going into any real details. It makes outlandshish claims about bringing about nirvana, a Star Trekkian society, and the "third age of computing".
Microsoft should be beggin Salon to pull this piece - it's horrible advertising. Comparing Bill Gates to Henry Ford is not exactly going to help their current PR angle. Plus, the over-glorification only reinforces common myths about
I urge everyone to write Salon and ask them to do a better job editing. If someone is going to write a piece explaining why
inky
(apologies to
Last night at the Atlanta XML Users Group (Score:2, Interesting)
He started by indicating the Microsoft "gets it" as regards unhappiness WRT its philosophy of "embrace and extend". He even showed a page with a list of standards with which Microsoft's new XML technology is compliant.
He then, without blush, went on to describe Microsoft extensions that make the XML technology more "usable".
In his discussion of C#, he pitched the language, not as a Java-killer, but rather as a compromise language easy enough for VB know-nothings (not his phrase, but the import of his language) and with the features beloved by C++ bigots. (Pointers!)
He described how easy it is to put tags in generated HTML (CSS, anyone?) before going on to describe Microsoft's newest idea in XML technology, the iterator. Of course, the methods available from various iterators over various classes are different, so learning how one works does not guarantee understanding of how all works.
I know a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind, but this boggles.
Anyway, a number of things came to me from the talk:
1. There are a lot of VB programmers out there. They're not terribly smart, and Microsoft wants to protect their rice bowl.
2. Microsoft is making it very easy for people to generate really crappy HTML from XML.
3. There are a lot of great ideas in the Java world that Microsoft is glomming onto.
The author is quite a nice guy, and bore well my comments about billg as Satan.
Hahaha... The author bio on the Salon piece says (Score:3, Interesting)
About the writer
Peter Wright is a software consultant and the author of numerous books on Visual Basic programming. He is currently working on two .Net titles for Apress slated for release later this year.
Hahaha indeed (Score:2)
Developers can treat Passport as an object in their code and instantly make use of a thoroughly tested and validated service that works just fine with 160 million user accounts around the globe. Such reuse not only speeds deployment of applications but also increases their reliability after delivery.
Only a guy who makes his living selling Microsoft manuals would have the chutzpah to say that in public. May I have some of what he is smoking?
Why even mention the buffer overflow? /. FUD? (Score:2)
Here's the letter that I wrote to the Salon editor (Score:2, Interesting)
I've never seen a more slanted piece of journalism since the last political spot I watched on TV during the previous Presidential election.
I doubt that anyone would equate Bill Gates' reputation with the near mythical standing that Charles Babbage has in the computer world.
And Gutenberg? If Bill G had invented the transistor, I *might* find this a plausible comparison. But comparing the total value of all Microsoft products to the PRINTING PRESS is ludicrous. That's like comparing NyQuil to public sewer systems. (For those who don't get this analogy: NyQuil is good; it makes you feel better; it puts you in a coma so you won't walk around infecting other people with your germs...sewer systems are the most significant public health innovation of all time).
The author's treatment of the arguments about
One, he says that the negative view of
Two, the argument about youth. He squirms out of this one by saying: it's new; but you don't have to buy in right now; just play with it for a while - it's 'risk-free'. Let's look at this argument. Mr. Wright says, "The
A factual note, Ximian is not "the coordinator of the GNOME Linux user interface project". Prhaps Mr. Wright might want to substitue "GNOME Foundation" for "Ximian" in his next article.
He also slides by the privacy argument by saying, "there is nothing in the
Mr. Wright seems to have decided that
Finally, as I said in the beginning, Mr. Wright's article is doubtlessly the most one-sided, biased piece of journalism that I have ever seen in a forum that purports to have the slightest apprehension of journalistic integrity.
Re:Here's the letter that I wrote to the Salon edi (Score:2, Interesting)
I actually got response from Andrew L. Basically saying that they simply are trying to show all viewpoints. I admire that, but I don't think this guy really represent a majority of anyone's viewpoints - even MS Developers.
My response to his reply was:
Andrew,
Thanks for a swift response. I've read and enjoyed many of your articles.
It's not the Microsoft slant that I am objecting to here. In fact, I appreciate a well-written pro-Microsoft article due to the fact that they typically cut through the hype that surrounds that giant company. The recent article in ArsTechnica detailing what
I'm objecting to the fact that the piece contains very little in the way of fact and for the most part engages in wild hyperbole.
For instance:
"Visual Studio.Net is the result, a set of development tools that really do make that almost "Star-Trek" view of the world possible, not in years to come, but tomorrow. "
I greatly doubt when I wake up tomorrow that I'll be carrying around a dog collar which will be accessing my email, which is almost an exact concept alluded to by the author.
"Bill Gates has already changed the face of the world as we know it, but his magnum opus has yet to be fully appreciated"
Bill Gates, the person, has actually done very little to change the world. His company, Microsoft, has certainly done a lot. While I wouldn't expect the average slashdot poster to make the distinction, I would hope a professional writer would.
The most impressive bit is the fact that he mentions, but never really goes into, the potential security risks inherent in such a system, particularly when provided by a company plagued by security problems like Microsoft. Also, the fact that he mentions other "players" in the distributed service industry, but doesn't exactly give them credit (this is, after all, Bill's opus) seems a contradiction in his own logic. He even states:
".Net is a platform based around open standards such as XML (for managing self-describing data), SOAP (for XML-based, Internet-wide component reuse) and UDDI (for locating and deploying other "Web services" based on these standards)."
If the platform are based on these standards, standards written by groups of people and representatives of industry leaders (including Microsoft), how is the author justified to write two more pages telling us how this is Bill's vision?
I think there are many Windows developers who will object to this piece as well. It does little to enhance Microsoft's image as a marketing-not-technical company.
I appreciate Salon's desire to publish a wide variety of viewpoints. I'm always willing to engage in a discussion with someone who differs from myself, provided they are willing to create a logical argument. Also, apologies if I implied you were selling editorial space. My intention was merely to indicate that the piece reads more like something for a brochure, not a serious editorial.
Part of my response is merely shock, as I've grown accustomed to a high level of quality from all of the viewpoints on Salon, whether I agreed with them or not.
Let it be known that... (Score:2)
Re:Wait a second (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wait a second (Score:2)
Re:Perl, Python, Mono, what next for Billy's Borg (Score:2)
1) Larry Wall, who gave a ringing endorsement of Visual Perl a few years ago (that was before
2) Yes! It's called Visual J#.
Re:Did anyone else happen to read these lines... (Score:2)
I'm sorry. They are DIFFERENT from those around them. They are as different as John Dillinger- and have had roughly the same sort of success.