
Slashback: Unenforceability, Conflagration, Cans 111
a filtration system for your 2.4 goldfish Jay Beale points to this followup to his "Why iptables rocks" article of a few weeks ago: "It fulfills my promise to show how to actually build a home/SOHO firewall with Linux 2.4's iptables aka Netfilter. It contains the full code, explained piece by piece, to build a working firewall with 2.4, including all kinds of cool packet mangling for load balancing, redirecting stuff to transparent proxies, or avoiding nmap stealth scans ..."
Out of embarrassment, perhaps? An unnamed correspondent points out this bit of news regarding Symantec's patent on software updates. The upshot is, without pointing out that updating software incrementally is not a patent likely to win them a lot of favor from the industry they have simply decided not to enforce it. Smart move.
Not yet in the can, or the cube either Casey Ho of San Jose's Leland High wrote with some interesting information for those interested in tiny amateur satellites; Leland is one of the handful of schools whose students are designing experimental payloads for inclusion on an upcoming launch.
Machinima makes the grade ILL Robinson writes: "Wanted you guys to know that our Quake II-based machinima film, Hardly Workin', received top honors at Showtime Networks' Alternative Media Festival - alt.sho.com. In an awards ceremony on February 8th at MTV Studios, Showtime awarded The ILL Clan with awards in both Best Experimental Short as well as Best of SHO for the festival. Using Machinima (films created with a PC game that can be modified with users' assets), The ILL Clan's film gained notice from the festival's judges - citing Hardly Workin' as a short with a high degree of innovation, design & creativity. We're pretty excited to receive the recognition, all the way from fans of ours who had been following us from the beginning and now, from a top-tier cable TV network. Cruise on over to our site for the official announcement, or to Machinima.com for more machinima works. And thanks also to the Slashdot readers, as they helped spread the word of what Machinima is all about."[We] are focusing on making a CubeSat. Leland High school officially has one satellite to launch, and there are four teams now competing to make a design that will be approved by CalPoly technicians. My own group will attempt to broadcast a powerful long term signal using only a small satellite. The project is not easy since there are a lot of scientific guidelines we must meet. We are discussing how to create a reliable circuit and transmitter that will function in extreme temperatures, vacuum, radiation, and most importantly, after an extra powerful rocket launch. The requirements are available here.For some of you posters out there, sorry, no living organisms or explosives are allowed on the satellites. ;)"
Congatulations!
Symantec is cool. (Score:1)
Re:If they were really nice... (Score:1)
Also, one of the patents is for the way it resolves the differences, not for the idea of resolving differences.
Re:how is this patent thing so great? (Score:1)
This is one more in a long list of improperly awarded patents.
If this patent remains unchallenged, it may gain legal weight as time passes. A future argument could be "since no one has disputed it in x years, it must have some validity".
The government is doing such poor administration in the tech fields that it will soon be time for the gov to be bypassed where necessary. I don't mean doing anything illegal, just something as simple as declaring en masse that a specific patent will not be recognized.
Re:Symantec is cool. (Score:1)
You have no chance to survive make your time! (Score:1)
Re:The Big Problem with tiny spacecraft. (Score:1)
But if nanotechnology gets beyond being a pipedream, that needn't be a problem. Your grassblade starship lands, builds a few self-replicating exploratory/survey craft, then switches to building transmitter builder builders so when the survey is finished it can transmit the results back.
This also assumes any inhabitants of the planet don't object to self-replicating nanobots reshaping a chunk of it into a huge antenna and power station, and that your spaceship drive scales in such a way that a small spaceship can get anywhere in the first place anyway.
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Re:Not enforcing patent (Score:1)
If they just wanted to use the patent defensively, they could have just published the technology unpatented. At that point it's prior art which they can use as a defense against claims of infringement, but it doesn't prevent anyone else from using it. That would be the ethical thing to do.
Just what we needed (Score:1)
long term signal using only a small satellite."
Great. Interminable orbital QRM thanks to a buncha adolescents with more money than sense.
Re:how is this patent thing so great? (Score:1)
My uderstanding of the patent process is that it grants protection from someone using your patented "THINGY" (tm) for profit, but you, in turn must divulge the particulars of the "THINGY." Another condition is that you (or your company) must take it upon themselves to enforce the patent, and challenge any and all violations of that patent. If you don't, you lose patent protection, and can never get it back.
Why this is a good thing, is that if Symantec does not enforce, they cannot, and no one else can patent it to enforce it for their own evil purposes. Once it is patented, it is patented.
Re:IF I HAD A MICRO-SATELLITE... (Score:1)
Re:Prior Art? (Score:1)
Re:I'm rather dumbfounded (Score:1)
Re:With my microsatellite... (Score:1)
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Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
Unfortunately, government intervention via the patent process interferes with this and favors those with the itchiest trigger finger rather than those with the best and most efficient production solutions.
In other words, rather than fostering capitalism, the patent office is actually a mechanism of socialism, and undermines the American Ideal in a way that the Open Source movement could never hope to touch
I'm rather dumbfounded (Score:1)
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Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
Cool Cryptonomicon reference... (Score:1)
Re:Space and Opensource (Score:1)
Re:Prior Art? (Score:1)
Re:iptables is no IP Filter (Score:1)
Had what you described been true, there would have been no need for Microsoft to create Microsoft Proxy Server (version 1 OR version 2!), nor MS NAT, as implemented in Windows 2000 server.
Clarity helps a discussion, and OpenBSD really does have a kick-ass NAT implementation. It's not touched by any MS product. I've used them all.
Re:Nanotech is little more than a pipe dream (Score:1)
Re:IF I HAD A MICRO-SATELLITE... (Score:1)
Re:I'm rather dumbfounded (Score:1)
No.
See the hotly disputed GIF patent discussions.
Yes
ibid.
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Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:1)
What does students designing have to do with funding? all it costs is pencil and paper.
What does a small payload have to do with with NBC's or anyone else's large satellites? Nothing small payloads go up yearly. Did you think they'd show every payload launch on CNN? Do you truly think this is all that expensive?
C'mon use some sense.
Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:1)
In the words of one of my favorite anime characters, "Gather your thoughts and then place them into words."
Re:what? no dynamite? (Score:1)
If they were really nice... (Score:1)
Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:1)
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Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
Unfortunately, by saying that in public you've probably just ruined your chance of becoming true for you. Learn to keep your mouth shut.
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Re:IF I HAD A MICRO-SATELLITE... (Score:1)
Hey, were not talking cubic satellites here - well, yes, we are. But, er, its a different meaning of cubic.
If your unit is one satellite (not one cubic satellite, multiplying things by things by things is rather hard), a microsatellite is just a million picosatellites. Er.
"Out Of Cheese Error. Redo from Start" - Hex
Kiwaiti
You think Pentium is lowly? (Score:1)
You people must be RICH! My iptables router is a 486/66 with 8 MB of RAM and very very horrid I/O performance (yes, Timothy, it's the short little box I showed you when you dropped by). Easily saturates a modem line, though, and I can wait the ~1 minute it takes to telnet in, su, and run iptables to open or close a port.
I have inherited a Pentium-120 now (though I had to trade parts of my desktop box for it) so unless I get a cable modem or DSL before I get around to changing it out, that 486 is going to take a very long rest soon. Might resurrect it someday for realtime 3D rendering and video compression.
Yeah right (Score:1)
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How about dead ones? (Score:1)
Overclocking (Score:1)
IPTables question (Score:1)
Could anyone help explain the additional steps needed to make this work? Or tell me where to find this on the web/docs/faqs/etc? Even Rusty's guides don't cover this.
Goal:
184.220.142.10:80 --> 10.0.0.11:80
184.220.142.10:8080--> 10.0.0.13:80
184.220.142.10:25 --> 10.0.0.12:25
184.220.142.11:443 --> 10.0.0.11:443
(and once those work I can make anything go...)
Thanks!
Re:Symantec is cool. (Score:1)
Re:Nanotech is little more than a pipe dream (Score:1)
OoO
Re:You think Pentium is lowly? (Score:1)
Re:what? no dynamite? (Score:1)
First of all you are dealing with college students here.
Second there is a need for antenna deployment and if this were NASA an exploding bolt or some such fun could be used to release it.
Third we are dealing with college students here.
When we were discussing the need for a way to shut down a stuck transmitter an autodestruct sounded really cool.
-Nails-
I think you are missing (some) of the point (Score:1)
Look at the size of the Apollo landers, and of the Saturn V rockets. Notice a difference in size? If you wanted to put one poxy nanobot into space you'd still need huge rocket, as for most of the time the rocket needs to propel itself with its fuel as well as the nanobot.
Your comment ignores two factors. First, although you are right that every a small device would require a huge rocket, I believe the idea behind micro satalites (and a "nanaobot" by extention) is to put large numbers of them into orbit from a single rocket launch. Hence you are saving money by spreading the cost. If (as an example I have no real idea) it costs 2 million to put a small rocket into space, and 200 different companies put microsatilites on the rocket none of the companies has to bear the full cost of the launch, but all get their craft up. Second, if a sufficcently small device could be deisigned, at some point in the future they could be built and launched from the ISS. Thus eliminating the incredible cost of actually putting the object into space (by far the most epensive part of space flight).
All your base are belong to us (Score:1)
Re:how is this patent thing so great? (Score:1)
Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
-x
Re:With my microsatellite... (Score:1)
Re:Space and Opensource (Score:1)
(anti-troll system engaging)
Lots of code has gone in both directions. Big deal.
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ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
Re:IF I HAD A MICRO-SATELLITE... (Score:1)
Where's my will to live? I seem to have lost it.
Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
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Re:Overclocking (Score:1)
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Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:1)
By claiming the patent they can add to their net worth. Symantec gets to be in the news ( dont believe me? Just look it up on slashdot ). They protect themselves from someone else doing the same thing against them ( remember amazon.com? ).
But, the meat will likely turn rancid if they try to enforce the patent. If they were to challenge someone who was doing something similar ( Insert random networked software here ) then they will likely lose the case and maybe even eventually lose the claim. If that were to happen then they lose face, lose networth, and maybe, just maybe some customers.
In short, they likely win all they can win by claiming the patent but not enforcing. They lose if they give anyone a chance to challenge their claim. IMHO this is simply not a card Symantec can play.
As a share holder I am sure you want Symantec to have all the networth they can muster.
On an OFFTOPIC note: If they were to win in court then I am going to enforce my patent on controlled inbalance as a form of motivation (i.e. walking).
- The moon is smaller but farther away
MS Products (Score:1)
Re:Not enforcing patent (Score:1)
Because this way they're protected against another company patenting the same process. If Barnes and Noble had patented one click shopping, but then hadn't enforced it, they'd have avoided the Amazon litigation.
Re:Karmawhoring drivel regarding Microsatellites. (Score:1)
The "putting things into near earth orbit" is already amost a commodity. The exploration of space is a totally different kettle of fish, and your syllogism just isn't valid.
Secondly, how do you know if I want the price of space launches to be brought down? You have no right to speak for "all".
You obviously have no knowledge of engineering.
Look at the size of the Apollo landers, and of the Saturn V rockets. Notice a difference in size? If you wanted to put one poxy nanobot into space you'd still need huge rocket, as for most of the time the rocket needs to propel itself with its fuel as well as the nanobot. The thing _does not scale linearly_.
Sheesh,
FP.
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Re:what? no dynamite? (Score:1)
XNO3 for X=almost anything (From Potassium to Toluene and beyond) will often part with its oxygen quite easily. (The Potassium version in the saltpetre in traditional gunpowder, and the toluene version wants three 'nitro's round it, and hey presto - nice almond smell and TNT)
FatPhil
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Cryptogram (Score:1)
Re:You think Pentium is lowly? (Score:1)
Re:You think Pentium is lowly? (Score:1)
I have a crap ISA 486 (dx2/66) with two ne2k clones for my NAT-box, and it sometimes goes to about 10% time spent in interrupt-handlers, but otherwise it's about 1.5% max CPUuse for my cablemodem. A 486 is much better than needed for most (home) firewalls.
(Of course, with only 8mb RAM running a modern linux kernel is probably not so much fun.. A modern FreeBSD on mine (with 16mb) is fine though.)
Damn I write too much..
Re:Symantec is cool. (Score:1)
Re:what? no dynamite? (Score:1)
Re:MS Products (Score:1)
Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:1)
Re:Hee, Hee (Score:1)
The author has a point that this one method of doing business that is well loved by certain companies and it helps to be there first even if you don't intend to enforce the patent to stop others from trying the same thing.
However, litigatious shareholders are not a joke - but it would take a significant chunk of the equity to force a response from a US company. Rather less than in a Japanese company which is why they have been subjected to pressure in return for hush-money to prevent embarassments at shareholders meetings.
Re:IPTables question (Score:1)
Slashdot really needs a positive moderation choice for interesting, on-topic questions.
With my microsatellite... (Score:1)
My microsatellite will contain a solitary piece of paper with the words:
"ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US."
Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:2)
The whole quotation is worthwhile:
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free access to information is the only safeguard against tyranny.
The once chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information will soon burst with freedom and vitality, while the free nation gradually constricting its grip on free discourse was begun its rapid slide in to despotism.
Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:2)
The quotes come from ZeroWing, an old space shoot-em-up by some company no one seems to remember. When it was rleeased for the Genesis, it had an opening sequence tackes onto it. This sequence is generally considered the worst-translated video game dialogue of all time, with at least one error in every single sentence, and often more.
Lately, thanks to a fandub OverClocked did of it, the opening has gained a cult following in gaming/geek circles.
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Re: Patents != Socialism (Score:2)
Re:what? no dynamite? (Score:2)
I really don't understand the concern. It shouldn't be able to explode, no O2, and from what I've read the satelites aren't supposed to crash land. So what's the problem?
The problem is that "things that detonate" ie. true explosives not just pyrotechnical compounds that burn relatively fast (few hundared meters/second as opposed to few kilometers/second) already contain all oxygen they need in they molucular structure. Most pyrotechnical compounds also contain the oxygen they need to burn in some form or another (salt peter [i hope this is the correct english name] is very common oxidizer)
The problem with explosives (or guns, or other things that go boom) is the fact that pressure is rather low in space which causes all sorts of problems like rather poor and non spectacular burn of pyrotechnics, explosives detonate allright but since there is no medium to carry the shockwave it's not much of fun.
Sure there are uses for detaching or welding and stuff for explosives in space but using them is FAR from trivial, you need VERY carefull planning for those things to work properly.
NOTE: I am a trained in handling pyrotechnical compunds and explosives, speciality in special effects (where real explosives have quite little use, pyrotechnics look and sound much, much better).
Re:Schools sending up sattalites? (Score:2)
Re:Nanotech is little more than a pipe dream (Score:2)
Anyway, here's one set of Top 10 Recent achievements in Nanoelectronics [mitre.org]
And a set of Top 10 Hard Problems [mitre.org].
In recent years the Feynman Prize in Nanotechnology [foresight.org] has been awarded for experimental work as well as theoretical. Some people have been designing cool devices at the molecular level, other people have been building them, and they work. There's no reason to think progress of this sort will stop any time soon.
We may spend more time at work but I wouldn't say we spend more time working. For instance, consider time spent reading Slashdot!Re:what? no dynamite? (Score:2)
Re:how is this patent thing so great? (Score:2)
That is incorrect; an unenforced patent doesn't lose any power from the lack of enforcement. You're thinking of trademarks, perhaps?
If the major differences between trademarks, copyrights, and patents aren't already in the /. FAQ, they should be :)
Re:With my microsatellite... (Score:2)
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
Re:Prior Art? (Score:2)
Apple too (Score:2)
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Not enforcing patent (Score:2)
Re:IF I HAD A MICRO-SATELLITE... (Score:2)
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Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
Symantec still ok (Score:2)
Defensive patent (Score:2)
Re:If they were really nice... (Score:2)
Honestly, it's not like they had much of a choice in the matter. There was tons of prior art (everything from rsync to Diablo I). They made the only business decision that made sense (as a court battle would've had a high cost and a low return).
www.diebyyourself.con (Score:2)
Either you are +1 Funny (Sarcastic), or -1 Troll.
Surely your not proposing that 'profit motive' is the only important factor in life? Maybe we should eliminate patents all together just to give Capatalists a little shake up - the system is not working - and what you propose is *MORE* corporate-power-hording.
Suggestion to Symantec: Give your Patent to the FSF. Release the patent GPL.
My advice to you: Re-evaluate your priorities, you'll be dead soon.. and no one likes a greedy, selfish, myopic jackass... you cant *buy* wisdom, peace or contentment - re-adjust your life-goals.. help re-adjust the goals of your country.
*BUT* im thinking you mean that as +1 funny... i hope.
Re:MODERATORS! (Score:2)
its a troll cos it has no relevance to the story.
Wasn't the story about iptables?
Isn't iptables the new kernel's replacement for the venerable (and fun!) ipchains?
Isn't it therefore relevent to state that there are alternatives to the new firewalling features in Linux, which may have other advantages?
I'm confused. Thrall me with your acumen.
MODERATORS! (Score:2)
Or you install OpenBSD and have a firewalling router with one line of configuration. ONE. I'm not kidding.
(Score:0, Troll)
Could someone please explain to me how that was a troll?
So, just because the post suggests that there might be something out there that is better for a specific task than Linux, it's a troll?
[sigh] Slashdot is rapidly degenerating into a demonstration of why the masses should not be allowed to vote.
how is this patent thing so great? (Score:2)
Cubesat !? (Score:3)
Re:I'm going to file a shareholder lawsuit (Score:3)
___
The Big Problem with tiny spacecraft. (Score:3)
Because your grassblade starship won't have enough power to send a signal back to earth to report its findings.
This is the main factor that provides a final lower limit on the size/mass of space probes, be they in-system or interstellar. An in-system one that stays inside the orbit of Mars can get away with being big but light, as it can draw power from the sun. For the outer solar system or for deep space, it'll have to carry a radiothermal power source large enough to power a microwave beam that outshines background noise and instrument noise when seen from Earth.
The electronics for the transmitter aren't going to be small or light either.
Re:Overclocking (Score:3)
Re:I'm rather dumbfounded (Score:3)
Whether you use Windoze or not, same thing...
You're confusing Patents with Tradmarks. (Score:3)
Re:Not enforcing patent (Score:3)
The point is, there's a huge difference between a company publically stating that they don't plan to enforce, and granting an irrevocable royalty-free license to use the patent to the general public. Ten years from now, if Symantec sees their profits starting to dry up, what do you want to bet that this policy will change for the sake of a cash grab. Unlike other forms of intellectual property, such as trademarks (and to a lesser extent, copyright), a company isn't required to enforce their patent to maintain rights over it, and they're fully allowed to change their policies regarding the patents.
Suppose I should be thankful that Canada doesn't grant or respect software patents.
hmmm. (Score:3)
Note to self, withdraw bid for anthrax from EBAY and cancel the order for the micro-sat,
move to plan 2
MUhhahahah
________
Prior Art? (Score:3)
For Example, there is this Story [slashdot.org] about the war of DirectTV against hackers. Direct TV for the past FOUR YEARS did incremental upgrades to their systems to try to stop hackers from stealing their signal. They finally inmplemented a gradually update program that convertly set up a complete system upgrade, sort of like a digital jigsaw puzzle, with the last piece shuffling and re-compiling the pieces, and locking the pirates out when they pulled the final trigger.
So in any case, just the idea of online upgrades before this little bit of coding is demonstrated prior art by DirectTV
Re:iptables is no IP Filter (Score:3)
Or you install OpenBSD and have a firewalling router with one line of configuration. ONE. I'm not kidding.
Or you install a Windows NT and pull the network cable out and have a firewalling router with no lines of configuration. NONE. I'm not kidding.
Space and Opensource (Score:3)
On that same note....
It would seem to me that NASA should open their arms to the brains of the world. A true international project, would be an opensource project, where all minds of can offer their guidence and help for free. Where getting more for your dollar seems to be something NASA is interested in, it would seem that they should look towards our community.
If the "Space Community (NASA...Smaller Projects)" start working together we might see real results a lot faster.
-Angreal
P.S. I just want to walk on the Moon before I die - a small vacation.
Nanotech is little more than a pipe dream (Score:3)
And looks set to remain so for the forseeable future. Despite a lot of hype generated by Drexler and his fellow zealots, nanotechnology is still a purely theoretical psuedo-science, supported solely by a few developments in molecular manipulation that in reality have little to do with Drexler's ideas of nanoassemblers.
Until an actual working model is proposed I have little time for nanotechnology and its grandiose claims. Every two-bit prophet has claimed that their creations will change the world, and yet they rarely do. Just look at the computer. For all the revolutionary talk about how it will free us from the burdens of work, now all we do is spend more time working, because computers have enabled us to do more!
Nanotech is not the answer to all our future problems. Hell for now it's not the answer to anyone's problems, except maybe Drexler's bank balance and a few labs hoping for Government funding. Maybe you should be looking for a more scientific solution?
I have an idea regarding Microsatellites. (Score:3)
I would guess that exploration of other star systems in the far off future will be performed by very small nanotechnological space vehicles.
When you can manipulate the atom, there is no point having huge unwieldy craft several metres long - why not just build something the size of a blade of grass?
With nanotech, it would still be enormously powerful.
--
Clarity does not require the absence of impurities,
Nuclear-Powered Hand Calculator (Score:5)
it scares me that they need to explicitly say 'no explosives', like there are a bunch of kids who wanted to sent TNT into space.
Along those lines, I've got a (formerly) solar calculator that has been running for over ten years continuously. Unless it breaks, I fully expect that it will continue to work long after I'm dead.
I painted its solar cell with the radium-based luminous paint that was used on clock and watch faces before it was discovered to be dangerous. It seems that the beta particles and low-energy gamma rays very well "illuminate" the solar cell.
You could easily power a D-I-Y microsatellite in this way, without having to have to engineer systems to deploy solar cells once in orbit.
Is that worse than the explosives?
Instead of using mechanical systems, motors or even explosives (ie. NASA loves exploding bolts - seriously) to deploy fragile solar cells by remote control, in orbit, all you'd need to do is make a nice little bundle of solar cells, coated in this paint, and packaged tightly to prevent damage. All of a sudden, for low-power satellites, you've got a viable power source.
I'm sure Cassini's controversial nuclear power source was a lot more refined, but it doesn't need to be complicated to work well.
As for the radium paint, look around antique shops, volunteer in the workshop of an aviation museum, etc. Old bottles of the paint occasionally turn up - just don't put them in your pockets, and make sure you've washed your hands after using them, and don't scrape the dried-on paint, because the dust is bad. Treat it like a lead-based paint, and you'll be quite safe.
IF I HAD A MICRO-SATELLITE... (Score:5)
Then I sit back and laugh while NORAD tries to track them boogers.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --