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AMD

AMD's DDR-Capable 760 Chipset Reviewed X3 103

Posted by timothy from the not-brd dept.
An unnamed correspondent writes: "The Tech Report has posted a review of AMD's 760 chipset. This is the one that includes a 133 MHz DDR bus, with support for 133 MHz DDR (a.k.a. PC2100) SDRAM. Benchmarks were done using a 1.2 GHz Athlon, and include everything from memory bandwidth tests to a variety of Quake III scores; they even attempted Linux tests, but Linux and the 760 wouldn't play nice." For another point of view, Fr0child writes "Today is the day that AMD officially announces their DDR SDRAM supporting chipset, the AMD 760. They promise "Increasing Memory Data Rate by Up to 100 Percent," which is quite promising to say the least. Of course, who would sit back and believe what a manufacturer says without verification? Anandtech has taken an in depth look at all the performance and features of the AMD 760. Looks like the combination of DDR + Athlon easily topples the RDRAM + Intel platforms out there."

And on the other, other hand, romeomustdie writes: "According to this [Sharky Extreme] piece, AMD is finally debuting the 760 DDR capable chipset, which is, for the most part, an evolutionary step up from the 750 chipset which has been out for the past year. Boasting a faster system bus, support for DDR memory, and a brand new South Bridge, AMD has set themselves up to not only surpass their first-generation offering, but also the current performance Athlon chipset, VIA's KT133. DDR is finally here to stay."
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AMD's DDR-Capable 760 Chipset Reviewed X2 More

AMD's DDR-Capable 760 Chipset Reviewed X2

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  • Re:I guess RAMBUS is doomed . . . (Score:4)

    by inquis ( 143542 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:29AM (#665534)
    This is a popular misconception. The granularity of RDRAM makes it an attractive solution for Sony, and at the price that Rambus must sell it to them for, it must be almost as cheap if not cheaper than if they had to go out and buy SDRAM.

    Also, for the kind of work that the memory does, RDRAM trumps SDRAM. Read about how it works into the PS2 model on Ars. <a href="http://arstechnica.com/paedia/3dtech.html">l ink</a>

    OMG, Sony is using RDRAM for what it is supposed to be used for!!!

    /me faints.

    -inq
  • Methinks I remember somewhere that the KT133 Northbridge/Southbridge combo was something like 25$ in 1k quantities, which ain't bad, considering that Intel has said that the Tehama (or however you spell it) will cost like 50$ in 1k quantities. However, if you look at the prices of the boards right now, you will see that the top of the line boards will come out to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 145$ - 155$.

    Abit KT7-RAID, top of the line, 150$, Add 760 chipset, add 15$ price. Lose the Highpoint controller, lose 20$ (?) price. Of course, you lose the RAID, but you keep the ATA-100.

    Then again, it might be cheaper just to use the Via southbridge than it would be to use the AMD 766... that might shave another 5$ off the price or so, and I would expect that you would lose a little disk performance under win2k because of the driver support.

    -inq
  • Motherboards with AMD chipsets ( the 750 ) tend to be more expensive because they need a 6 layer board ( as opposed to a 4 layer for the VIA chipset ), also with the system buss wunning at 266Mhz I assume the'd need more precise tolerances in the manufacturing. Theres plent of other DDR chipsets on the way though..
  • This is the step that sets the stage for the battle for the next memory standard showdown: DDRAM vs RDRAM. Let the showdown commence, all the the future winner is pretty obvious.

  • Re:Should we trust this report? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm not sure that we can trust this report: at the right of the frontpage, there is a poll which asks "what is the most negative downside of the P4?"

    You've got to be kidding me. He put that poll up pretty recently, and for several weeks before it he was asking "what is the most innovative feature of the P4?" He's giving equal time to both sides there.

  • Actually, Linux does not run out-of-the-box on P4 systems, so it's no loss there. To reply to another poster in this thread, the P4 at 1.5GH is roughly 12% faster than a 1GH P3 on non-P4 optimized code. I don't recall the difference that properly optimized code makes, but it isn't all that much. This information comes from the Ford annual workstation benchmark, btw.

  • Well clockspeed might be everything for desktops, but these is not going to have the same price advantage over Intel as the current crop. If clockspeed was everything, then where would Sun be? Until last month the fastest UltraSparc II was 450MHz, but a fully loaded Sun 420R (4x$50MHz USII, 4MB level II cache each, 4GB RAM, 160MB/sec SCSI, ludicrous memory and IO bandwidth (64bit 66MHz PCI, 288 bit wide memory bus, etc etc), whups all kind of ass at the low (yes low) end of servers. It's a *lot* more expensive than a Quad Xeon, but boy does it get through more work in the real world.
  • You do understand that software controls the hardware, not the other way round, right? It's not like this was made incompatible with Linux, it's that Linux hasn't been made compatible with this yet.

    It's understandable that AMD's first priority would be to get Windows up and running. That's where the big money is (for now). You'd better believe that they'll make sure Linux runs on it as well, though. They are quite interested in providing a solid platform for Linux.

    --Lenny
  • actually, I just bought a KT7-raid board, and the main IDE controller is run at ATA-66, not ATA-100. So I use the Highpoint to run my drive at 100, and throw cdrom/dvd/zip onto the ata-66.
  • ...really do want an Athlon because they are faster, run cooler...

    Athlons don't run cooler, they run hotter.
  • The compatibility list, or rather incompatibility list for "athlon" processors is pretty minimal. I run 5 such beasts between home and work with the array of OS (Debian Linux, 98SE, Win2k ADVServ, WinME, BSD) I'd be much more worried about software/hardware producers that don't bother to make their products compatible with current hardware. Especially something as mainstream as an athlon processor. Ever try to install "Vampire:The Maquerade" on non-intel? good-luck!
  • Anyone know what the difference will be goin from SDRAM to RDRAM? I couldnt find anything on pricewatch [pricewatch.com], but then again, I know very little about all these new fangled memory technologies comming out. :)

    -----
    If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
  • Can I quote you on that in 3 years? :>

    There'll be stuff along the road that'll make use of it.. and then make people want to upgrade further when it starts to struggle..

    --
  • Mmmm... *drools thinking about it* Dual TBirds..
    --
  • >Microsoft - works out of the box

    Explain this then: Data Loss Threatens Fast Windows Systems [pcworld.com]

    To make it sweeter, you can't even get the patch unless you are an OEM. Imagine, because of licensing and copyright it may be ILLEGAL to run your operating system in a functioning manner.

    If you ask me, "Every day is a showstopper" -- if you run windows. At least the Linux workaround mentioned earlier is availiable to the general public. Microsoft... well... they have an "image" to preserve.

  • Mainstream in the computer-world, replying in the mindset of the post your responding to would be appropriate. The people who own/purchase/use computers maybe a better demographic for you to work with. If you walk into a Best Buy, Compusa, Circuit City, Mom & Pop etc.. and look for "Athlon" you will find it. That my friend is mainstream enough to get some support.
  • Dazzle's what isn't compatable. And it is likely because they are out of PCI timing spec in some way.


    blessings,

  • On the Win95/98 problem, Boot into safe mode, user regedit and delete everything out of hklm/enum, and then reboot. Windows will detect some stuff, and reboot. Repeat. After it finishes detecting (most)everything, run the add hardware app. After that, reboot. On boot up it should redect the rest of your hardware. If not, reinstall :P
    If you can't tell, I've done this a number of times.


    ---GEEK CODE---
    Ver: 3.12
    GCS/S d- s++: a-- C++++ UBCL+++ P+ L++
    W+++ PS+ Y+ R+ b+++ h+(++) r++ y+
  • Tom's fine site has kernel compilation time benchmark for 760: Here. [tomshardware.com]

    In a nut shell, better memory performance does not affect a bit. So we must wait for better benchmarks.

    Jari Mustonen

  • oooooo.. I'm all cool and fringy and political n'stuff now!!! yeeehaw!!
  • Then again, you don't have the people that buy into the clock speed fallacy and that buy their computers at Best Buy buying Alphas or UltraSparcs. Of course, you and I know that Alphas and UlraSparcs LAY WASTE over anything that either Intel OR AMD have out right now, but to the (l)users that buy their computers at Best Buy 'Clock Speed Is King'(R)(TM)(C).

    -inq
  • jigga please my karma thingy is SKYROCKETING
  • On the contrary, my dear AC friend.
    My karma was indeed dropping, I just lost my +2 ability, so I decided to post some obvious redundant semi-explaining stuff and indeed, moderators did bite.

    The joke's on you!
  • lol, this is amd not intel ;)

  • Linux IS supported -- it's a known bug (Score:5)

    by aetius2 ( 96018 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:38AM (#665558)

    The 760 is NOT at fault. The Linux error he reported is a known bug -- see Red Hat bugzilla ID 19535 (I added the workaround this morning, after realizing that we hadn't put anything up about this on our website). It is basically the kernel trying to disable the P3 serial number -- on the Athlon processor. (oops) It only affects Thunderbird-core Athlons and Durons. It has been fixed in all 2.2.16 and later kernels. I emailed damage to let him know about -- hopefully we'll get to see some benchmarks.

    After installation, at the LILO boot: prompt use this command:

    linux x86_serial_nr=1

    That'll get you booted, and you can upgrade/recompile/append to lilo.conf from there. There was supposed to be a Gotcha added for this, but obviously it isn't up yet. I'll track things down today and get it added to the Gotchas page for 6.2

    Aetius
  • I assmune they'll fix it , probably via a BIOS patch. It is a pre-production system that as yet doesnt support its in-built ATA-100 controller @100mb and it has problems at 100Mhz FSB ( so no test with PC1600 yet). Anyhow , theres pleny of other DDR chipsets on their way.
  • I'm not a fanboy for any player in this war, but unless AMD has an ace up its sleeve, they are going to have trouble taking mindshare away from the p3 launch. I mean, this damn thing is launching at 1.5ghz... the public will OOH and AAH, and then go buy it, even though p4 + RDRAM will be slower than athlon 1.2 + DDR SDRAM. Clockspeed is EVERYTHING to the buying public, even though the DDR platform might THRASH the p4.

    Of course, knowing AMD, they DO have an ace up their sleeve... they might pull the same stunt that they did when Intel was releasing their first ghz chip. Now THAT was a laugh. Intel ate crow for that one :)

    My prediction: on the p4 launch date, AMD will announce something BIG, like

    1) Athlon SMP chipset, with benchmarks showing that a cheaper Athlon DDR SMP rig will RAIL UPON a p4 rig,
    2) Mustang (mmmm, 2MB on die cache)
    3) TBird in 1.6, 1.5, 1.4, and 1.3 ghz flavors :) How would THAT be for catchup?

    -inq

  • Re:What about... (Score:3)

    by ndfa ( 71139 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:47AM (#665561)
    hell it might be the only hope of having netscape render tables!!!!

    HHell let make things more interesting and start up staroffice!!!
  • The problem they report is that Linux installs, but then panics at boot since it tries to disable the Pentium serial number.

    I had the same thing with my Duron and RH-6.2, it's just an option they have turned on in their kernel (not the install kernel, apparently). Just recompile the kernel with the option turned off and it worked. I don't see why that fix wouldn't work with this new chipset.

    This means that you have to install from CD, then boot 'linux rescue' from CD, mount your newly installed system, chroot, and compile/install a new kernel, but it works. Maybe RH should provide kernels specially compiled for AMDs.

  • Yep, sure does, right after installing it for the first time. Any open mid I had was lost in a fit of giggles
  • Sure you can quote me on that. That was an open source stupid remark. The only point I was trying to make is: why buy the stuff now. I'm quite confident you can buy better stuff for less money when you're actually going to need it.
  • I had exactly the same panic rebooting after
    installing redhat 6.2 on my AMD Athlon Thunderbird
    system (ASUS A7V board). The trouble is that
    the redhat installer thinks a PIII CPU
    is present. And then a kernel is installed which
    tries to disable the PIII CPUID, resulting in
    a panic during booting after a succesfull install.

    I solved this to rebuild the redhat kernel tree
    on a different box but then choosing a
    different CPU ID Type : PPro/6x86MX/PII
    instead of PIII/Xeon/Deschutes . I notice here
    that these options including the
    Disable the PII/PIII Serial Number at bootup
    option have been included by RedHat themselves.

    A normal ftp.kernel.org kernel like 2.2.17
    wouldn't have these problems. So I think
    RedHat certainly has to fix some things in their
    redhat 6.2 installation iso's, with respect
    to the AMD Athlon family of CPU's. So I'd rather
    have RedHat release redhat 6.2b or redhat 6.3
    than redhat 7.1.

    Robert
  • Windows (9x) always does seem to blow up when you change that much hardware 'underneath' it :) .. I did that upgrading a 486DX4/133 to an AMD K6-2/300 a couple of years ago .. Linux was fine in doing it - booted up fine, but Windows locked up and died. Seems Windows still gets into a fit about it. Sounds like boof time.


    --
  • Pretty inexpensive? Uh, d00d, 64Meg SDRAM is going for $30 [pricewatch.com] a pop, 128Meg for $54 [pricewatch.com], go over to Pricewatch [pricewatch.com] and see for yourself.

    I'd like the performance boost, but the price better come down, since I need a lot of memory.


    --

  • One product that can easily be replaced by a multitude of others does not and cannot make or break a product. Lets be reasonable here, Its like saying a DVD player will fail if it cannot play one movie.
  • >DOESN'T WORK ON [ALL] ATHLON CHIPS[...]
    ...ETS

    A quote from the webpage:

    "AMD Athlon processors with certain chipset combinations will cause problems for the Dazzle Digital Video Creator II"

    What matters: certain chipset combinations. Not the processor.

    I think what they are trying to say is that one of the current Athlon Chipsets (either the AMD one or the VIA one) is not compatible. But the Athlon CPU itself is perfectly compatible.

    >And no, this is not a case of bribed or lazy programmers favoring Intel or "not writing in AMD compatibility".

    It's likely a case of poor hardware. Either the chipset is at fault (which is what I'll believe, I know how poor the VIA KT133 chipset is firsthand... I owned a Vortex 2 soundcard and an ATI Radeon, ouch!) or the card is.

    >AMD itself doesn't know what's going on

    Only if the AMD chipset is the broken item. Not the processor.

    >But I simply cannot afford to "take a chance" that all kinds of stuff I need to do won't run on "mostly compatible" AMD chips.

    I have only ever heard of a single "major" error in AMD CPUs (there may be more...) that affected the K6 CPU when a jump larger than 32 MB was executed.

    I have also heard of major errors on Intel's part, making them incompatible with Intel specs (haha) or just broken. Like the FDIV bug and the F00F bug for example.

    You take a chance on whatever you buy. If you want a totally error free processor, you need to buy a 486. That way any errors that exist are very likely known and accounted for (and workarounds enabled). Why do you think NASA didn't put a PIII in the Hubble Telescope? Because it isn't tested well enough. :-)

    But don't take my word for it. You really have to decide for yourself.
  • fyi... there was a win2k expert from ibm talking over at my work place last week... he speficially said office97 doesn't for with win2k... you get basic functionality, but many features will die because they still call on 16bit .dlls
    that might be the source of your woes
    good luck
  • Yup, you said it. Thing is, we're unlikely to see 266MHz FSBs on sale to joe public RSN, since that gear (as a whole package, CPU, mobo, RAM) will cost *lots* more than the standard stuff.
  • no linux? boo.
  • when intel actually fixes the problems with the chipset (i850) and gets p4 samples and mobos out to independant reviewers and they report it's worth the money i'll consider the p4... till then i'm still recomending amd to anyone except heavy gamers
  • i havent' read the review yet, but i've had problems with linux on promise ata100 controlers.. i hope this thing has been fixed by the time these boards come out...
  • no linux? boo.

    Wasn't that a matter of Red H*t's borken kernel image, mistaking an Athlon for a P!!!? That sounds more like a software issue than a chipset issue. Since people are running Linux on Athlons (not me, yet...fastest I have is a 450-MHz K6-III), you would think the reviewers would've done whatever it is these other people are doing. (Recompiled kernel? Kernel hack?)

  • Umm, according to Intel's road map we'll have 2 GHz before the end of the year.

  • Another Good Review (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 30, 2000 @02:57AM (#665577)
    There's another review here [sharkyextreme.com] as well.
  • According to the benchmarks on Anandtech, next to none.

  • My humble musings... (Score:3)

    by archivis ( 100368 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @02:58AM (#665579) Journal
    Let's hear it for the onward march of technology! Marketer-speak aside, aren't we all just glad that our wonderful machines are going faster, going farther, and doing more? I for one remember my first computer, a TI-99 4/A, with a tape cassette as it's read/write drive. It was a wonderful thing, and lasted until my mother threw it out when I went to college. Now I sit in front of a Penium-2 on top of a nice fat DSL line, with winamp going, a linux partition just a dual-boot away, and my drives are full of luscious games and applications that would have exploded my good old TI-99/4A into so much hamburger if it had even thought about running them. Where will we be 10 years from now? I don't know, but I was at a Zellers [Canadian sort of Wal-Mart, I'm an American-in-Canada, BTW] this past weekend and there was a glorified 3D snazzy-background Pong-clone for sale, with big plastic paddles. A few decades development from it's birth and it's now -3D- [with goofy controllers] Pong :)
  • This certainly make no sense...Ive had nothing but positive experience between AMD & Linux combo's.

    No Linux support, those engineers need to work with this somemore.

    -RedElf
  • Looks like the battle's already over. Anything that RDRAM gets will be because of Intel. If P4 does well, RDRAM will do well by decree. However if P4 and the Athlon are evenly matched, DDR is going to take it all the way. DDR is faster and cheaper, what more can you want?
  • With DDR SDRAM giving such good results and Intel regretting its decision to support RAMBUS, how long before RAMBUS finally realizes its game is over?

    (One of the things that irritate me about the PS2, by the way, is that it uses RDRAM. I'm sure the price of the console would be a lot cheaper if it used DDR SDRAm instead . . .)
  • Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but TechWeb is reporting that Micron PC [techweb.com] is holding off on introducing Pentium IV systems with Rambus but will be shipping Athlon DDR systems immediately...

    Interesting as their parent company is heavily supportive of DDR-SDRAM and are currently being sued by Rambus...
  • My next processor is likely to be something arround a 1GHz P3, perhaps in a years time, however I wont be buying another intel motherboard at this rate, with Athlon outperforming on price and performance.

    Most people I know have already jumped ship.

    I dont look forward to buying new RAM, a new motherboard and a new processor when the time comes though.

  • What about... (Score:5)

    by Necroman ( 61604 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:03AM (#665585)
    SMP support. I know with the 760 chipset (a revision of the chipset at least), is supposed to have support for 2 processors. DDR is great and all, but when you can scale to 2 1.2 GHz Thunderbirds, imagine the power you can have. You could have 2 Netscape windwos open in Gnome, each running on a seperate processor. It will double the chances of getting that f1r5t p05t on /.

    Its not what it is, its something else.

  • Not Redhat, but (old) Linux Problem (Score:5)

    by tialaramex ( 61643 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:55AM (#665586) Homepage
    Red Hat didn't add that feature, Linux 2.2.x post CPU ID fiasco includes a feature to disable the unique ID during boot, before userspace apps have a chance to read it.
    Unfortunately it triggers for non-Intel hardware too, so later revisions (x >= 16) check first. Kernel boot line overrides it (see previous posts)

    This bit me on a hand-built kernel with same old disks but a new MB, Duron 700, etc.
    Booting a rescue kernel buys you an opportunity to check the solutions database, find the magic bootline and install a fixed kernel. Bingo.

    Temporary copy of NT4 survived this switch (but doesn't do ATA66, USB, etc.)
    On a friend's upgrade Win95 (98?) went haywire and now refuses to see USB or work properly with his Dual Head G400.
  • quick! someone recompile them a new kernel so they can run linux! just make sure you compile it for the 386.

    i would do it, but i'm already compiling mozilla. then i want to play a game of unreal tournament and pre-order my PSX2. so i have no time left (unless i stop reading slashdot).

  • Sign of Apocalypse: rm -rf being written across the sky...

    Be better then the BSOD (blue sky of death) we have now!

  • Re:I guess RAMBUS is doomed . . . (Score:3)

    by HiyaPower ( 131263 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @04:00AM (#665589)
    Actually Rambus isn't hard to make except in the higher grades. Since the entire stick has to be fabricated including the attached heatsink before it can be tested for speed, you get a lot of lower grade stuff and not much higher grade stuff. Where Rambust fails is in the noise immunity when it comes to making chipsets, thus Intel's problems with their various efforts.
  • Indeed...

    DDR = Deutsche Demokratische Republik (yeah right!) aka East Germany
    BRD = Bundesrepublik Deutschland (federal republic of Germany) aka West Germany

    I hope this DDR (the RAM) will do better than the other DDR, which is no longer.

  • Re:What about... (Score:3)

    by tak amalak ( 55584 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @04:05AM (#665591)
    The 760 doesn't support 2 processors. But the 760MP will.
    --
  • Well said inq. I personally can't wait til 2001 when the Sledgehammer - AMD's 64-bit processor - hits the market.
  • AMD's copper fab(fab30) is in dresden,
    which belonged to DDR before the merger.
    So system with DDR memory and CPU made in DDR ;)
  • Well the _really_ funny part about the 760 presentation is that IIRC today Intel was supposed to introduce the P4. Good timing, AMD!
  • Money. The only way the P4 is going to fall into the same market as the athlon, is when they're going to sell it at a loss:-)
  • What on earth are you going to do with 2X 1.5GHz?
  • For a bs less review with unique benchmarks read mine. [amdzone.com] I literally did most of my testing during a bachelor party because I had the system for only a weekend. Cachemem, SuperPi, Linpack, Primordia, etc are tested. Sorry now Linux marks, didn't have time to even attempt them.

  • Sorry! (Score:1)

    by renoX ( 11677 )
    I'm sorry: I didn't knew this, thanks for your reply: I was quite surprised to see a poll on only the downside of the P4.

    I also checked some of the discussion refered on the side of this page: woaw! they are quite high-level (betwee guys who apparently know what they're talking about!)

    So I have totally reversed my mind about this website, bookmarked.

    And thanks again for correcting me.
  • Good for you.
    Not everybody has the same amount of money as you. Some of us /.-ers are poor guys :)
    So even ONE Athlon is exotic.

    Cheers,
  • everyone but anand reports that p4 performance is horrible, unless they make you run their benchmarks.
  • my P233 MMX back. Be sure it's got a 7200 RPM drive and 64 MB RAM, though. 8 MB Matrox Millenium II and a 19" monitor helps.
  • No, you don't have to boot a rescue disk or anything. Here is the fix for redhat 6.2. After you install, reboot as usual

    At the LILO prompt, type

    LILO: linux x86_serial_nr=1

    and it will boot fine. Then add
    append "x86_serial_nr=1"

    to the /etc/lilo.conf file, (in the general section at the top) and run lilo.

    That's all there is to it.

    S.

  • Re:More like Linux doesn't support *this* (Score:4)

    by spankenstein ( 35130 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @07:28AM (#665603) Homepage

    Misinformation is running rampant here lately...

    REDHAT shipped with the "Disable CPU serial number at boot" kernel option enabled. disable_x86_serial_nr=1 passed to LILO gets over this.

    On with my rant.... just because REDHAT jacks something up does NOT mean tht Linux is fucked up.

    Sorry abou tgetting all heated but really people use your heads and a search engine every once in a while.

  • Not true. Everyone I know that runs Athlons do it for performance/price reasons.

  • You should know what you're comparing. CAS3 PC133 will be slow as hell compared to a PC2100 CAS2.5 (I don't think the CAS2 DDR modules are out yet).
  • heh -- I did. Too damn early in the morning. :)
  • no, no, no. Intel Optimized Software is not compatible with AMD's processors. Welcome to the real world where Intel, in order to preserve it's monopoly power, provides kickbacks to, or outright buys any compilers that support SSE over 3Dnow! Even the Linux community is folding to this insideous giant. Used bordland lately? The amazing part is, Intel is a bell weather stock and they are actually willing to crash the whole market to not look like they made a poor decision in reguards to Rambus. Intel: "the market is softening" BULL$HIT The fact is AMD has gone from a 10% market share to 40%. The market is not softening. Intel is softening. But those four words from Intel cut everyones stock value across the board. Fact is in the light of competition Intel has turned out to be a bunch idiots riding a monopoly gravy train whose only answer to competition is to crash the market so they are not the only ones loosing fscking shareholder value.
  • I've heard that to use present CPU's with the 760 chip set you'll want to reduce the clock multipliers, unless you want to fry the CPU. Supposedly this is because of the higher FSB speed. Is this true? Can someone please explain?
  • This is probably only because no-one has yet given Alan (Mr 'Kernel' Cox) one of these to 'motivate' him to add support for it into the 2.2.1XpreXX kernel :o)
  • everything, run the add hardware app. After that, reboot. On boot up it should redect the rest of your hardware. If not, reinstall :P If you can't tell, I've done this a number of times.
    Reinstall? :)
  • "Fact is in the light of competition Intel has turned out to be a bunch idiots riding a monopoly gravy train whose only answer to competition is to crash the market so they are not the only ones loosing fscking shareholder value." One question, if AMD has 40% of the market share, how is it that Intel can be a monopoly??

  • Dell pulls P4 system out of shootout vs Athlon DDR (Score:5)

    by HiyaPower ( 131263 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:07AM (#665612)
    Jc is reporting [jc-news.com] that Dell pulled their P4 system out of a "shootout" vs the DDR Athlon systems after looking at their performance. He also has numerous other links to 760-land. It is really looking like Intel had better dump Rambust and get with the program if they are ever going to sell anything with the P4. Likewise, Dell had better re-consider its Intelicide policy and start making AMD machines, especially when the multi-processor version of the 760 goes commercial. They have held the server market because Intel was the only multi-processor game in town. This is going to change soon bigtime.
  • Fact is in the light of competition Intel has turned out to be a bunch idiots who were riding a monopoly gravy train whose only answer to competition is to crash the market so they are not the only ones loosing fscking shareholder value. Intel's business plan does not allow them to be profitable in the face of competition. come on, open your eyes man. If what you see scares you then don't bust me about it.
  • My next processor is likely to be something arround a 1GHz P3, perhaps in a years time, however I wont be buying another intel motherboard at this rate, with Athlon outperforming on price and performance.

    Sheesh. Life in the slow lane, huh? I'll settle for nothing less that dual 1.5 Gig Athlons; and we're not talking anything exotic here.
    --

  • That would make sense, if they no longer support the older ship's FSB. Of course, many overclockers run iwth a higher FSB and/or multiplier.

    I've never truely understood the athlon bus speed though, nor why you need a 300W PSU, new memory etc. etc.
  • ...how long will they be on top? Once the P4 is released in sufficient numbers, the Athlon family will go right back down.

    Whats the point of living if the next generation is being born round us every day? Damn I shouldn't have gotten out of bed this morning. And with everything already being invented and all, whats the point of me going on!

  • whoops, sorry for the messed up link.

    linkified [arstechnica.com]

    -inq

  • The first article says:
    AMD will price the 760 chipset at US$39 in 1K quantities.

    I don't know how much other chipsets such as the kt133 cost, but even if they're free, a 760 based motherboard won't be THAT much more expensive. Woo woo!
  • haha, reread your subject it's hilarious =)
  • now THAT will be something I will enjoy seeing. I think I was ranting about this on the zdnet message boards one day. It was a Transmeta article and some fanboy took it as an opportunity to bash on everything that was non-Intel. Needless to say, he was flamed to a crispy golden brown.

    -inq
  • I agree that the DDR Athlon system looks like a killer but I'm not sure that we can trust this report:
    at the right of the frontpage, there is a poll which asks "what is the most negative downside of the P4?".

    Urg! The P4 is not even released so how can you benchmark your application on the P4 and see where is the bottleneck!!
    And now just looking at the spec of a processor is NOT ENOUGH to say: this is the bottleneck/downside...

    So me,I will take this website with a "grain of salt"...
  • They and their allies shake things up by launching a few satallites into orbit, then get swept aside by the Next Big Thing :) We wouldn't want the technology sector to stagnate, now would we?

  • With my Athlon system, Redhat 5.2 installed perfectly. Redhat 6.2 failed myserably (same kernel panic after disabling the CPUID), Redhat 7.0 installed just fine. Past that, windows 98 installed fine, as did NT 4.0. But wouldn't you know it, NT 4.0 won't boot, citing the same CPUID but in different terms...
  • I know I'm burning karma by saying this, but it's become part of any Athlon-related story.

    Why don't we just get some kind of petition together and go to the various motherboard manfacturers saying "if you build an SMP Athlon board, (Linux and FreeBSD compatible) you will NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP IT ON THE SHELVES."

    Which is true...

    Instead of legitimately complaining these options aren't available, why not pound on marketing at these various companies until the clue train finally arrives at the station?
  • You should know what you're comparing.
    Yes. Apples and oranges. But it's still memory and price determines availiblilty. It stays up and forget about popping a MB with 512+. For the bang-per-buck ratio SDRAM cooks it. Price has to come down. Granted, Crucial is a storefront for Micron. I'm waiting to see what other vendors will charge.
    CAS3 PC133 will be slow as hell compared to a PC2100 CAS2.5 (I don't think the CAS2 DDR modules are out yet).
    With performance enhancement of between 5 and 20% for DDR SDRAM over SDRAM? I don't think that qualifies as "slow as hell." The determining factor in most PC use is quantity of memory. If I can get twice as much for the same price, what makes you think I'm really suffering? DDR has a long way to drop, pricewise and the Koreans (if you read the news) are dumping SDRAM cheap right now.


    --

  • Wait for AMD Mustang (Score:3)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @08:24AM (#665627) Homepage Journal
    If you really want the full DDR SDRAM promise then wait for the Mustang. It should be out shortly and addresses some of the Thunderbird's shortcomings. The combination of DDR, 760 and the Mustang has been the goal. DDR for the Thunderbird is merely introducing the new technology, the Mustang will take full advantage of it.


    --
  • http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/00q4/001030/ index.html

    Tom gives an excellent overview of DDR ram and also the AMD 760. I generally prefer Tom's articles to Anand's, and this one is no exception.

    Truffle
  • Dunno about that. Over here (Ireland), AMD had a pretty big advertising campaign, and, importantly, their train ads are far better than the Intel "stupid blue men hit green things" campaign. Of course, there's a certain amount of loyalty to Intel over here, since they have a huge big fab up the road from my old secondary school...
  • If you have a decent burner like my PlexWriter 12/10/32A, you theoretically should be able to do just about anything in the background you want.. If the OS lets MP7 fuck up the burner program's process.. well, that's an OS bug, regardless of how stupid the user is.

  • Here's the 1-line patch (change in bold):

    00-09-10 H.J. Lu
    * linux-2.2.16-pn.patch: New. Only disable CPU serial number
    for Intel CPUs.
    --- linux/include/asm-i386/processor.h.pn Sun Sep 10 16:38:54 2000
    +++ linux/include/asm-i386/processor.h Sun Sep 10 16:39:57 2000
    @@ -126,6 +126,7 @@ extern int disable_x86_serial_nr;
    static inline void disable_serial_nr(void)
    {
    if ( disable_x86_serial_nr &&
    + (boot_cpu_data.x86_vendor == X86_VENDOR_INTEL) &&
    (boot_cpu_data.x86_capability & X86_FEATURE_PN) ) {
    printk("Disabling CPUID Serial number...");
    __asm__ __volatile__( "movl $0x119,%%ecx\n\t"

    It seems to work fine with Pentium, Pro, II, III chips and AMD Athlon, Duron and Thunderbird -- trying to disable in the former, skipping the code in the later. The kernel panic results from the disable opcodes running different instructions that trash the Athlons (especially the newer Duron/Thunderbirds). Have not tried the code on older 386/486-class CPUs, but it probably will work fine on them too.

    In a nutshell, anyone who compiles in the PIII S/N disabled by default should patch their kernel with this 1-line change!

    -- Bryan "TheBS" Smith

  • You have to take this information lightly, as I haven't tried to confirm it, but:
    RDram is supposedly easier to fabric for integration on the mothermoard, and that is probably the case with PS2.
    This would make RDram cheaper.
    In addition, the PS2 could have other requirements than a PC.

  • I got the joke (Score:4)

    by billybob2001 ( 234675 ) on Monday October 30, 2000 @03:26AM (#665636)
    from the not-brd dept

    This is about DDR being the abbreviation for East Germany, and BRD West Germany, isn't it?

    I'll remember to set my chip to Eastern-bloc mode.

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