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Technology

IBM Offers Computer Recycling 197

Posted by timothy from the nice-to-mom-earth dept.
rjh3 writes: "IBM is offering to recycle old PC's (monitor included) for $29.99. They've made a deal with Envirocycle to do the recycling and UPS for discount shipping. The old computers are assessed and either refurbished and donated, or stripped for usable parts, recyclable content, and the remnants sent to disposal. Envirocycle has found a way to recycle the highly leaded glass in CRTs and removes much of the toxic lead content in the electronics." Read on for more information on why you might want to take them up on the offer.

"Many readers are probably unaware that used electronics, including TVs and monitors, are already categorized as a hazardous waste by the US EPA. Unsafe disposal by any business can lead to some staggering costs. The EPA does not inspect your trash. But if they find your monitor at an unsafe waste site, you are 100% responsible for cleaning up that entire site. They go after everyone who contributed to the site and just keep going until everyone is bankrupt or the site is cleaned. There is no proportional allocation. One PC is enough to be charged the entire site cleanup cost.

Consumers not exempt, but there is no point in prosecuting them. They don't have enough money and the political cost to the EPA is too high.

If you do not already have a suitable electronics disposal plan in place, this may be of interest. Most Massachusetts towns have a recycling plan in place because Massachusetts already prohibits consumer disposal of electronics in the regular trash. There are also a variety of donation programs for usable electronics, although many charities have become rather restrictive. They have been burned by people donating broken useless equipment and forcing the charity to pay the recycling disposal fees."
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IBM Offers Computer Recycling More

IBM Offers Computer Recycling

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  • Why do I get the feeling that IBM is essentially offering to buy dollars from people for the low, low price of $.25? I think that IBM will reap much more than $30 on average for each PC that it recylces...

  • trash (Score:1)

    by knurr ( 161310 )
    To get rid of trash in that manner is only good if your a big company... Its a good idea though. I mean the enviorment wins in the long run.
  • First of all 386's are not worthless; they can run Linux. But, you have to ask whether it's a good use of electricity.

    I also think recycling should be done for free, and probably is in most decent-sized cities by the scrap dealers (who sometimes actually pay for stuff).

  • All those poor little programs, just recycled without having a say in the matter. I think we need to take their feelings into consideration.

    As shows like Tron [talsorian.com] and Reboot have shown us, the little programs living in our computers have feelings too.

    This is an outrage.

  • How old is your daughter? Is she single? Sounds like my kinda girl. :-)
  • recently, some of my roomates and i bought a few 14" monitors for $5 each, and wired them all together to provide for music video and other visual displays at large parties [hotaction.org] that we hold.

    So not only do we save the environment from choking on computer pollution (???), we also provide hours of drunken entertainment for college kids. (not that it's some sort of otherwise unachieveable feat)....

  • "Why do I recycle? Not because I really really care about the environment, but because I had to pay extra for each can, and upon recycle I got them back."

    but with this, you're not getting money back. you're paying extra! would you still recycle cans if you had to PAY 3 cents a can to get them recycled?
  • See if the local thrift shop will take it. There are people who will buy it off them. I have friends who loves old computers and looks for them at thrift shops (their on the east coast and the shipping wouldn't be worth it.

    -Fyre

  • I wish I could remember the article that stated that many African nations wish we would stop dumping our useless crap on their shores. Specifically, they're begging the US and other nations from sending them old XTs, 286s and even 386s, of which they have little or no use for. We think it's generosity, however, they think it rude that we dump stuff that no one really wants. They argued that those old hunks of junk won't help them teach folks how to use the internet and are hardly modern enough to even begin giving their students the footwork they need to compete in a global economy. Remember, many of the brightest and best will eventually leave their home country for a University education either in Western Europe or the US. With a background strictly in obsolete technology, they would already be at a significant disadvantage.

    Man, I wish I had that URL. *sigh*. I hate making it look like I'm pulling this stuff out of my ear. I assure you I'm not. If someone does have a relevant link to back this up, please post it. I would be interested in keeping it handy.

    In short, don't assume that anyone wants you really old junk. It's often more of a problem than a gift.
  • I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with that term you adorable little raggamuffin.
  • Who's going to pay to get their computer recycled?

    Businesses.

  • Re:Good program, but ... (Score:5)

    by AnarchySoftware ( 2926 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:48AM (#624244) Homepage Journal

    I'm a volunteer at FreeGeek. We actually exchange volunteer hours for the refurbished computers, as opposed to giving them away outright.

    The project is new. Our "grand opening" isn't even until this Saturday. (Originally timed for *after the election*, so we could get political officials interested enought to come, ironically.)

    We're pulling in a variety of systems, from 8086's on up to dual Pentium Pros. The entire internal network for the organization has been pulled from the trash heap (with a few donations and maybe a couple hundred dollars spent on a DSL router and a few necessary cables.)

    We're getting interest from a number of local high tech companies, and we've gotten 501(c)(3) status (that is, the IRS allows donations to us to be tax deductable).

    If we can make a go of this, it may be reproduceable in other communities.

  • In Austin, TX, there is a Goodwill Computer Works [austingoodwill.org] which takes hardware/software donations and resells them. It's also a great place to pick up a 15" monitor and keyboard, among other things.
    --
  • Yeah, that's the way to do it.
    I have a perfectly working 486/33 with all the bits except a case, I've been told a student is using it as his houses linux print-server or something. I charged him $0 for it, he charged me $0 to take it off my hands, we're both happy.

    Phil

  • It's even worse than you think (Score:3)

    by John Jorsett ( 171560 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:52AM (#624247)
    The EPA does not inspect your trash. But if they find your monitor at an unsafe waste site, you are 100% responsible for cleaning up that entire site. More than that, if the EPA finds any connection, however tenuous, between a business 'dumping' at a Superfund site and a successor business, they'll come after you. One guy got dragged into a Superfund site cleanup because he bought some used trucks from the going-out-of-business dumper (before anyone knew about the toxic site situation). Kafka couldn't have written a better law than Superfund.


  • Damn this infernal contraption. It posted before I had gotten behind the steering wheel.


    What I meant to say here was that LinuxPPC does not run on the computer specified (6116CD PowerMac).

    From the LinuxPPC website [linuxppc.com]:

    "LinuxPPC runs on PowerPC computers with a PCI bus. If your computer is NuBus-based, you can run MkLinux. LinuxPPC will not run on these machines."

    So I guess this 11 year old you've been observing is a pretty tough-ass hacker to have ported LinuxPPC to a nubus computer like the 6116CD. Whoah!

    But to get serious here for a minute and address the original poster's comment about installing Win2k on these charity boxes...Who is going to foot the bill for the license? The OS alone will cost more than what these computers are worth. And if the hardware could handle Win2k, then it doesn't sound like it's going to be donated to the charities anytime soon. To state the obvious, this looks like an ideal situation for a free OS that runs on obsolete hardware. There are plenty of choices out there....



    Seth
  • Joke's on you, Mr. Coward.

    Didn't you notice that you were linking to the web site of the Natural Resources Defense Council, a prominent science- and law-based environmental group? You linked to Appendix A of a comprehensive and informative report REFUTING the content of that New York Times Magazine article you were so proud of.

    In most cases, for most people, recycling is a Good Thing. It's not good for raw materials extraction company execs.

    Read the whole damn thing here: http://www.nrdc.org/cities/recycling/recyc/recyinx .asp

  • I have a complete, working MAC+ that needs a good home. I hate to throw it out. It's probably a collector's item to somebody.

    I live in the Bay Area. Any suggestions?

  • Good program, but ... (Score:5)

    by Meatloaf ( 176702 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:55AM (#624251) Homepage
    In Portland, Oregon, I believe we have something better going. A local charity, called FreeGeek [freegeek.org] will take any old technology off your hands free of charge.

    If said technology is still usable, they will give it, along with training, to a needy individual, in the hopes that this person will be able to use this training to start a career, and get a better life for him/herself.

    If the technology you donate has outlived its usefulness, FreeGeek will pick it apart and recycle the basic components or elements. All of this is free of charge, but if you are giving them recyclables, they will ask for a small cash donation (not required).

    But of course, Oregon is a pretty green state. Gore barely defeated Ralph Nader for the presidency here, 46% to 6%.

    I'm assuming there are other programs like this around the country, but I don't know. What's your city doing?

  • ...you can ALWAYS find a use for it. Hell, old 386DX's will run Sim City 2000, Doom, Doom 2, and many many many many many many other games just fine.

    And if you want to do something productive, you can run word processors on them as well. And fill it with porn.
  • ...to either just give a computer to the local amity/goodwill or to configure it with Linux and give it to one of the newbies at my user group.

    I don't have to pay anything - and someone benefits.
  • You could always sell them on eBay! Go Bush! Go!
  • This has to be the dumest thing I've seen all day! A P3-500 Isn't THAT old! Of course, I have a AMD 700, but a 500 isn't old, You could sell it, for a few hundred, then having to pay someone to get rid of it for you.
  • How about instead of companies paying to have computers recycled, they ask their employees whether they need a computer or not!

    I would love it if the company I worked for, instead of paying another company to take care of it, or dumping the machine in the trash, would instead give me the machine to replace my old machine, or at least have parts to replace my old machine.

    Sure - it won't be top of the line - but maybe it might be a 300 Mhz AMD or something to replace my aging Pentium 100. I am sure there are many employees who would love this (esp. if they needed a new laptop or something).

    Worse case, give 'em to the local geeks to play with! Myself, at every company I worked for, I made it known to the IT dept that if there was any hardware being thrown out, to let me know about it - I would take it off their hands. I have gotten a lot of good hardware this way.

    I support the EFF [eff.org] - do you?

  • Re:Recycling wastes even more (Score:3)

    by Eccles ( 932 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:56AM (#624257) Journal
    This [techreview.com] site disagrees, and claims various bits of supporting evidence from DOE, municipal governments, and other sources.

    Don't just dogmatize your beliefs, investigate them!
  • We have to pay them to take our stuff? They say they will try to refurb and donate to non-profits thus garnering themselves a tax write-off. This is a win-win for them.

    Why the hell didn't I think of it? :-)

    TheAngryArmadillo

    --
    "Government is good at only one thing: It breaks your legs, hands
    you a pair of crutches, and says, 'See, without us you wouldn't
    be able to walk.'" -- Harry Browne
  • I was actually planning on getting this thing running, but the main problem with it is that it apparently requires 3-phase power. It was also on the second floor of a building, up three rather narrow flights of stairs, so getting it out required completely disassembling it. It's pretty much in one piece now, but I'm sure some of the internals need to be reconnected properly.

    The main unit is about the size of a wide refrigerator, and the storage array (an SA-850) is the size of a regular 19" rack.

    I like old hardware, but I really don't have the time to devote to it right now (or the 3-phase power) so I've been thinking about selling off all the boards and junking or giving away most of the rest. The guts are worth at least a few hundred bucks on the surplus market, so I'd rather not just give it all away, but on the other hand it's taking up a lot of room and it's not doing me any good. Maybe I'll post a message on that list and see if anyone wants to buy or trade for it.

  • Here's a link (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ok. I thought everybody had heard of this already: recycling is wasteful activity.

    Here is a reprint of the original New York Times Magazine article "Recycling is Garbage" [nrdc.org].

    Yes, recycling is good for some materials, but the idea that extensive recycling (which requires a whole new waste managment infrastructure!) will save the world is preposterous.

  • Recycling is about transporting hazardous crap to safe places.

    You don't want hazardous crap? Then you should stop buying it.

    How likely is that then?
  • I would personally like to see this $29.95 fee (or whatever the price eventually is) included in the price of new computers as a 'deposit'. When it comes time to recycle your old machine, you then get your deposit back. This would give people a cash incentive to recycle, rather than just dumping their machine in the trash.
  • It's great to have a programme to start recycling old computer parts. But what I'd really like to see is new computers and computer parts made at least partially from recycled goods. Everything from CD-ROMs to chips--is this plausible or even possible? Is there anyone doing this now?
  • no, no, no. that's what electric eel farms are for.
  • Before you blow all that heavy lucre, check this [nsc.org] out. This is the government approved list of electronic equipment recyclers, by state. There aren't many, but I know that in the case of my business, we rid ourself of a roomful of broken monitors, dead printers, but no CPUs, for free via one of the providers on this list.

    We're talking 15-20 dead monitors, and 4 or 5 BIG out of warranty HP LaserJets, out of sight, out of mind. They either recycle and resell or dispose of it according to regulations. The provider normally charged $50/trip, but waived this in our case because we gave them a big box of cables and other useful stuff. Beats the hell out of $29.99 a CPU, and we were just happy to see it go.

  • Juice cartons take up half the landfill space occupied by the glass bottles they replaced; 12 plastic grocery bags fit in the space occupied by one paper bag.

    Yeah, BUT.. if a turtle eats a piece of paper, what do you think will happen to it?(nothing, unless it's sandpaper, or fly-catching paper). If that same turtle then goes and eats plastic, or styrofoam, it'll surely die. Sea turtles tend to eat plastic bags, because they think it's jellyfish. Then they choke to death. Not a nice way to go.
  • Did I say SX? I said DX :)

    Doom 1 and 2 played fine on my 386DX/33 with 4 megs of RAM (I just had to use a bootdisk to play them).
  • Nobody has ever claimed that recycling will save the world; this is why it is the 3 Rs: Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle. But the fact is that it is a very important component. Recycling is important not only to keep down resource usage, but also to prevent certain toxic chemicals, etc from improperly reentering the environment. A common example with computers is lead in computer monitors. By recycling the monitor, you can not only reclaim reusable components, but you can also extract the lead and other hazardous materials so that they can safely be disposed of.

  • As someone else mentioned earlier, computer recycling is big business.

    What I haven't seen mentioned is that other things recycled are big business too. The example that springs to my mind is an incinerator in my area. Municipalities pay to have their garbage incinerated (its done extremely cleanly - next to zero emissions - less then a car, you can't even tell its there when your right next to it) and the heat energy from burning is converted into electricity, and sold, and also partially sold as steam to run a factory near by. They make millions every year, some of which (not too much) goes to the French company that manages it, and the rest is enough to fund the recycling program in the area. Innovative!


  • Hey do I put my comments here, or do I wait for one of you to repost [slashdot.org] this story in an hour or two?

  • Oh crap, I just noticed that I've been posting everything witha +1 bonus point. Oh crap, my karma's going to feel this....

  • Recycling wastes even more (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The funny thing about recycling is that it actually pollutes the environment more than the old fashioned "let's dump everything in the same hole" kind of waste management.

    Sorting, transporting and handling several kinds of wastes instead of just one results in higher fuel and manufacturing consumption and thereby pollution.

  • Well, Richard, I think I'll be seeing you at the opening. I have not started working with FreeGeek yet, as you may have guessed, since I got one of the basic facts wrong in my post, but I've been approached by at least two different people familiar with the project to volunteer. I also have some connections that may be able to make some equipment donations. See you on PLUG.

    TTFN!
    Sean

  • There are going to build the world's largest Beowolf cluster. Imagine a 286 topping the SPEChpc results!

  • Re:Recycling wastes even more (Score:5)

    by LHOOQtius_ov_Borg ( 73817 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:01AM (#624281)
    This argument is not based on fact. A good friend of mine was involved in the management of a sizable recycling company in the Bay Area for many years, and they not only helped keep many tons of electronic and metal scrap out of landfill, but they did it at a profit. Yes, that's right, a profit on recycling.

    In fact, IBM will likely make a profit on this deal. You PAY them $29.99 for recycling AND they get to sell or reuse the parts? Hey, I'll give you THAT deal! First of all, most solid state parts don't go bad very easily, so there is plenty for them to recover. Secondly, reselling used computers in third world countries can be fairly lucrative.

    The company my friend helped run did both of these things, plus metal recovery (which was actually their first business - recovery of gold from electronics assemblies to make jewelry). As with junked cars, the parts value can exceed the value of the assembled system once a certain age is past. However, if the system still works, it may be cheaper to just sell it used rather than expend the energy and time to disassemble it. Thus, this company, and presumably IBM, would dismantle the broken systems for parts or to recover precious metals, and sell the working ones overseas.

    My friend's company did this in, if I recall correctly, Indonesia and the Phillipines. Regarding environmental issues. For second-hand resale, the energy and pollution in transport did NOT outweigh the manufacture and transport of new systems (the transport expenditure is basically the same, but you're manufacturing new stuff as well, so how could new be cheaper costwise or environmentally?) For scrapping, the way that the components parts business is set-up, there is already a lot of transport going on, so this was also actually cheaper on both counts. As for metal recovery: not digging new mines, or, worse for an over-mined commodity like gold, lots of test mines and horrible things like sifter mines, gave quite a financial and environmental benefit.

    Recycling of many items, especially complex machines, is not only environmentally sound, but can be quite lucrative. IBM is really quite brilliant for doing this, especially since, being IBM, they can do it with minimal additional transport costs?

    Why? Most recycling moves through recycling centers. If IBM puts these at their distribution centers, to move the recycled equipment, you're mostly moving it in trucks which otherwise would be returning empty from distribution centers. In terms of home users shipping back via UPS, the financial cost is a little greater, but not really the environmental: again, you're primarily using empty space. Most UPS (and FedEx, and whatever) trucks return mostly empty to their depots. Someone else I knew well wrote the truck routing software for a major "less than truckload" shipper: their business is to resell the empty space on trucks. By making use of "waste" services to move waste goods, you're so far doing quite well financially and environmentally.

    The disassembly process is also almost never more expensive or environmentally damaging than manufacturing, and certainly resale of used systems is pretty obviously without any added environmental cost.

    If you know anything about the businesses of recycling and shipping, you realize that IBM has made a really smart move: if they know how to manage all this stuff properly (or if they partnered with folks who do), they'll make a profit AND get the PR bonus of being an "environmentally friendly" company.

    Kudos to IBM...
  • You're just guessing... I am stating this from the past experience of at least one company operating in the SF Bay area. Even in teh US, some "obsolete" chips are more popular with hobbyists than the new ones - this company sold those over the counter to locals. The overseas operations disassembled boards, reclaimed useful parts (they defined useful according to their local markets), and extracted metal from the rest. The scrap plastic, I don't know what happened to it. Either landfill, or as road filler, would be my guess.

    Some third world countries, like Brazil, where I am at this very moment in my company's Brazilian engineering office, where we have many excellent engineers, actually DO have legions of trained repair techs, and programmers, etc. India is another third world country that shares this trait, as is Russia. Of course, they also have lots of poor people, but a depressed economy is not isomorphic with everyone being technologically backwards and uneducated...

    Unless you've actually left the US, and actually been involved with the computer recycling business, you are just making things up...

    Regarding the other guy's note about UPS and FedEx trucks... I will assume he is right, though I know that the UPS truck that delivers in the industrial neighborhood in Brooklyn that I live in often returns empty, I will assume this route is an exception in the UPS system. Other shipping companies DO seem, however, to have lots of extra space - as some companies make a living pooling it and reselling it.

  • Computer recycling (Score:5)

    by Hugh D. Hyatt ( 94194 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @12:02PM (#624288) Homepage

    Here are a few facts I dug up:

    • Something like 150 computers become obsolete every minute.
    • A typical 60-pound computer contains 35 pounds of currently unrecyclable substances of varying toxicity.
    • More than a tenth of those 35 pounds are typically of lead.
    • Lead attacks the nervous system, blood system and kidneys in humans. It has a well-documented and deleterious effect on children's brain development.

    I've collected some information on computer recycling [crosswinds.net] (the link to documentation of lead's effect on children's brains is bad; here [cdc.gov] is a better one).

  • Re:Why not Freeboxen? (Score:5)

    by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @12:14PM (#624294)
    I can see this as primarily a benefit to businesses...for individuals, why not just donate to Freeboxen? (www.freeboxen.com) Then you don't even need to pay the shipping...

    One of the great delusions of the consumer era is that donating is better than throwing out. It's true, to some extent, but you're making the assumption that people want your old crap. At the one extreme, you have mattress retailers who make you feel good by offering to donate your old mattress to charity. The result in many cases is that you have charities getting flooded with smelly, stained mattresses that they don't know what to do with and have to pay to have hauled away. A 286 may be of value, yes, but really what are most people going to do with it? You'd have to really dig to find software, and then you'd be out in the cold without manuals or support or anyone to turn to. Is it worth getting yourself reliant on software that's ten or more years old? Unfortunately, using old software and hardware is not so easy.
  • But you have to keep in mind, that, as the story states, IBM assesses the equipment, and decides whether to donate or recycle it. For once at least, IBM is showing responsibility.

    On the other hand, though, I'd like to see IBM's criteria for deciding what's junk. Maybe what IBM considers useless, and therefore, ready to be scrapped, could in fact still be utilized by the poor.

    There are millions of impoverished individuals in this nation who would like to be able to have computer equipment, even old stuff, but the current economic system restricts that. That is why we need to continue to give technology to the poor and needy. I hope the average slashdot denizen will keep this in mind before junking that old computer.

    I am,

  • Re:Odd (Score:2)

    by Lxy ( 80823 )
    The /. headline made it confusing, but the press release made sense. You pay $29.99 and UPS will come to your door to take your old computer crap, working or not. In this way you're assured that the $30 you spend will help your deceased hardware find its way into proper recycling facilities and your old working crap finds it way into the hands of needy children.

    The concept makes sense, I just would never justify the cost of shipping off my old crap as opposed to dropping it in the dumpster behind Computer Renassaince (as I have many a time) or giving it to the young kernel hackers in my LUG.

    "You'll die up there son, just like I did!" - Abe Simpson
  • One can probably still find all the software one needs free on simtel20's DOS section. Most of it wil run on an 8088, and certainly on a 286. And, yes, there is plenty of good stuff one can do on a 286. E.g., the best technical typesetting system, namely TeX, ran just fine on an 8 MHz 8086 (I know because I wrote my thesis on one) and it's freely available. And if all one wants is email, one can use a DOS-based TCP/IP stack and telnet. Or just a terminal emulator and a shell account (I'm sending this email from a 9.5 MHz Z80 machine with 128K SRAM).
  • If that's so, they why haven't you... or anyone else for that matter... offered to buy them for $25? It's called the "free market".

    Well, for starters, if IBM is offering ~$30.00 per PC, and you want to entice people to go through you, instead of IBM, you'd be well off to offer MORE money for their junk, not less.

    Of course, you also have to have the cash on-hand to pay people with, and you have to have an infrastructure in place to support the whole operation. Personally, I don't want to trade $30,000+ of my money for 1000 outdated PC's. That still doesn't change the fact that this is more of a money-making operation for IBM than it is a good-will operation.
  • Are there any around here? How about City of Industry since I live about 10 minutes away?

  • I am sure that IBM is not going to lose a whole bunch on this, but there isn't a whole lot you are going to do with some vintage equipment. E.g. what is the current market for working VT320 terminals. Well, the answer is not much. I sold one on ebay for all of $1
    I mean they're worth something to IBM in the sense that they can pay $30 for the unit, make it an assest of the company, take a tax break for the $30/unit they pay out, then get money from the recycler for the gold, steel, etc that is "mined" from the PC.
  • From the: Make-your-neighbor-child-giddy dept.

    Good idea if your parts are broken. However, if they're not, consider donating or selling them to someone who wants them. There are TONS of computer collectors out there that would LOVE to take computers off your hands for the cost of shipping, provided they work. The older, the better. There's several Computer Shelters [1] [computershelter.org] [2] [jmug.org] and other "low end" computer sites [3] [lowendmac.net] that have hobbyists just searching for parts and machines. There are listservs, Vintage Computer Organizations [vintage.org] and, of course, the effervescent Obsolete Computer Museum [obsoleteco...museum.com] site.

    If nothing else, please forward messages of machines available for pickup or shipping to: computershelter@computershelter.org [mailto] and I'll be happy to pass them on to hobbyists who would love to take them off your hands. Some of use the computers for our collections and to learn about older technologies, some of us clean them up and give them to children and impovershed families in our area to give them a piece of technology.

    If it's broken, dispose of properly. But if it isn't, please donate and keep them in use!
  • Here is a reprint of the original New York Times Magazine article "Recycling is Garbage" [nrdc.org].

    Ok, enough is enough . I've just wasted some minutes on the distortions and half-truths of the article, here is one example:

    We're a wicked throwaway society. Plastic packaging and fast-food containers may seem wasteful, but they actually save resources and reduce trash. The typical household in Mexico City buys fewer packaged goods than an American household, but it produces one-third more garbage, chiefly because Mexicans buy fresh foods in bulk and throw away large portions that are unused, spoiled or stale. Those apples in Dittersdorf's slide, protected by plastic wrap and foam, are less likely to spoil. The lightweight plastic packaging requires much less energy to manufacture and transport than traditional alternatives like cardboard or paper. Food companies have switched to plastic packaging because they make money by using resources efficiently. A typical McDonald's discards less than two ounces of garbage for each customer served -- less than what's generated by a typical meal at home.

    Spoiled, stale or unused food (or any organic waste) is not garbage, it's potential fertilizer. To even talk of putting it in a landfill is madness. Whilst *some* packaging can be recycled - with some energy cost. Organic matter recycles itself! Just stack it up and wait a few weeks and you have compost.
    Now can we get back to talking about computer parts?

  • That's fine. Their stockholders seriously don't want or care about "noble" reasons. They only want profits. A corporation can't do anything without considering the bottom line. This is a huge win for IBM IIF consumers go for it.

    I've got enuf old junk laying around that I'm considering shipping them a bunch. I hope that they'll not notice if the machine has four old MOBOs stacked up inside it... :-)

    John

  • My company throws away tons of good computer equipment every so often...a bunch of P166 and P200 systems, ATI Rage Pro video cards, 72 pin RAM, 2+ gig HD's. These things make great home computers if all you do is go on the net and play some low-powered games like Sim City. I can't count how many systems (or "orphans") I've saved from the trash pile and have taken home.

    I even made an MP3 juke box out of some old parts and took it back to work for my listening pleasure! The specs are at www.betips.net/emp3box. I'm listed as the first news article for November. All of those delicious parts I used (except for the Compaq handheld, which was mine) were about to be thrown out by the cleaning crew.

  • This indeed was being done when the price of gold was high enough. Alas, with the price of gold down at $260/troy, this has lost a great amount of whatever allure it had. Unfortunately, recycling metals like gold involves some rather nasty chemicals (cyanides in some cases, e.g. heap leatching is get a pile of gold ore and pore cyanide on it), and is cost prohibitive when the price is too low. Silver from fixer can be recovered by electolysis from photographic fixer (sodium theosulphate for the most part), but you already have the silver in solution. Silver is more reactive than gold by a far shot.

  • Corporate "green" or "greed"? (Score:3)

    by Anne Marie ( 239347 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:24AM (#624323)
    It's good that someone is doing something to help keep our planet clean, but you also have to understand the economics behind IBM's move here. Companies like Micro Metallics [micrometallics.com] have been extracting gold and other precious metals from discarded computers for many years now: with yields of as much as 20oz/ton, compared to 1oz/ton of ore from a typical gold mine. For $20, you're basically purchasing the "right" to have IBM make money off your valuable commodities. It's one thing to make a cash-for-service exchange, but it's an entirely different thing to make a cash-for-service-which-makes-cash exchange.

    And don't forget Envirocycle's [enviroinc.com] role in this operation. Besides being on their way to a solid monopoly in the computers-recycling industry, they pose a serious unrecognized risk of corporate espionage. As this Science News article [sciencenews.org] pointed out as far back as 1995, in the course of recycling proprietary circuit boards and chips, Envirocycle is being given privileged access to industry leaders' intellectual property. Usually, Envirocycle is instructed to destroy those chips, but just think how little it would cost for a competitor to buy (or even just steal) those chips out from under their own competitors' noses.

    Recycling is ultimately a good thing, but there need to be strong industry-ethics standards in place to assure that in saving the environment, we don't give up important rights and privileges. I'm wary that this industry (like so many others) cannot be expected to regulate its own behavior, but the solution is left as an exercise to the reader.
  • Yes IBM is doing this to help it self out, As all large companys do. Weither or not this will make them a profit. It will help their image. And rember hell why cant they do some good at the same time.
  • Why would businesses pay to have their computers recycled?

  • Because we're sick and tired of hearing people say "boxen".

  • Lead attacks the nervous system, blood system and kidneys in humans. It has a well-documented and deleterious effect on children's brain development.

    So remember folks, Do not dispose of old computer equipment by feeding it to children!

    ----
    Dave
    MicrosoftME®? No, Microsoft YOU, buddy! - my boss

  • This seems most useful for borken old hardware... (Score:3)

    by poot_rootbeer ( 188613 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:10AM (#624343)
    I've got an HP fixed-frequency display attached to my Win98 box at home, that the degaussing circuitry is finally going bad on. (Considering that the display was built 8 years ago and that for the past year I've been driving it at a frequency it technically doesn't support, I think I've been pretty lucky.)

    So now I have 70 lbs of useless lead, glass, and plastic sitting there. What should I do with it?

    1) Keep it on the floor in my apartment forever
    2) Break out the soldering iron and sci.electronics.repair FAQ's, and hope I don't end up with glass shards sticking out of me
    3) For $30, IBM will take care of everything.

    Maybe I'm crazy, but option number 3 looks pretty appealing...

  • Not only that... (Score:3)

    by Krimsen ( 26685 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:11AM (#624344)
    Not only that, but basically IBM gets to clean up some hazardous waste (which I possibly gets them some sort of tax break) and on top of that, they get to dontate your old hardware and I am pretty sure they get a tax break for that. Sorry to sound cynical... They are still getting something good done, but I just don't believe their reasons are totally noble.
  • oh smeg....

    make that URL www.betips.net/mp3box

  • You could always put them up on freeboxen. I am sure people would pay to have some broken monitors to use for parts. and I would be most grateful for those Sun machines from the 80's... even if they are broken! Please, please, please!
  • Oh yeah... the site is [freeboxen.com]
  • There are millions of impoverished individuals in this nation who would like to be able to have computer equipment, even old stuff, but the current economic system restricts that. That is why we need to continue to give technology to the poor and needy. I hope the average slashdot denizen will keep this in mind before junking that old computer.

    I have a severe problem with people pawning off their old computers on the poor and needy and feeling that they have done something good.

    You aren't, you're keeping the poor down.

    Now, if you're computer is too old for you, is it benefiting the poor and needy to have it? Only if you want to keep them poor and needy.

    A good computer can be a big help in getting someone out of the ghetto, it can help them leapfrog themselves into a good, IT position. But will giving a ghetto kid a 386 with Windows 3.11 on it really help them? Is there a burning need for Windows 3.11 users?

    We need a government program to get Windows 2000 compatible computers into the ghettos, and help the poor and needy leapfrog their dire straits into good IT jobs. Giving them old computers won't do, and is the act of a closet racist. What next, giving the poor your old moldy food, your old dangerous lead paint, your old, unsafe car?
  • Do you recycle your dr pepper cans? I definitely do especially after accumlating a thousand at the end of each month. Why do I recycle? Not because I really really care about the environment, but because I had to pay extra for each can, and upon recycle I got them back. I think the same should be done for computer parts and batteries. Get charged extra, but you will be refunded upon return for recycle when you are done using it irrelevant of it is working or not. I throw away batteries pretty much every two weeks, and computer parts every month, if I could definitely get back any money, I do go the extra step to recycle.

  • Dear Jesus, you sound like my daughter. The last time we moved I must have hauled four large heavy boxes full of antique computer trash out from under her bed. No way was I going to transport that crap for her so I threw it in the trash. I found out later that she got up in the middle of the night to retrieve and hide it, then moved it herself. Now I've got those same damn four boxes in the new house! Someone explain to me that value of four munged RLL 30 MB hard drives? Full height, too. Do you know what those things weigh?

    (Mommy's watching, dear. Ok, sport. Explain this: in your desk drawer I found a 20 MB MFM drive. You were saving it for what, again? And this Hercules monitor card from God knows when? How about that 386 motherboard [doggone it, it has 16MB of RAM on it! What else am I going to do with 16 30-pin 1MB SIMMS?] How about the dead TI 386 notebook? You resuscitated it twice: going for three, are we? Or the Tandy 1400 FD laptop? 'All it needs is a battery.' To do WHAT? Then there's the AT case behind the door. [They don't make 'em like that anymore: you could park a car on it and it wouldn't hurt it.] So park a car on it, laughing boy! I'm tired of tripping over it whenever I try to wrestle a load of laundry through the door. How about the carcass of that old Packard Bell 486? You didn't even bother trying to breathe new life into that one. [PB sucked. I keep its putrid remains around to remind me of how bad things could get.] Face it: the kid gets her packrat tendencies from you. I should have known to expect no better from someone who plugged a 5.25" floppy drive into his new PC. Remind me: just why did I marry you again? [That was an ID10T error, sweetie. But I love you anyway, even if you do use Windows.]

    :)

  • Re:liar, liar, pants on fire! (Score:3)

    by AArthur ( 6230 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @05:29PM (#624361) Homepage
    Actually, LinuxPPC was based off of MkLinux. MkLinux was orginally sponsered by Apple, and was the first Linux to be ported to PowerMacs. If you are interested in running monolithic (standard) Linux on your Nubus PowerMac, you will be happy to know there is some support for these machines in 2.4. More can be found at <a href="http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/">nubus-pm ac.sourceforge.net</a>
  • Of course all of this effort you mention doesn't cost anything. Net profit = income - expense. Not all things in an object are what they seem. Salvaged crushed cars make crappy steel because they have aluminum alternators om them. Aluminum in steelmaking make lousy steel. Electronics have all sorts of other crud in them that makes salvage a bit hard too. I wish them luck and hope they do make a profit so other folks get into the biz. As a taxpayer, I have to pay my town to get rid of this stuff. If there are profit centers here, maybe other folks will get into the biz of bidding for my old junk.
  • I address this in Question #4 of the FAQ:

    Question #4: I run a popular geek web forum. How can I increase my page impressions? My bosses have been pressuring me for more ad revenue. - Mr. Taco
    Answer: The best way to get people to post a lot is to appeal to their emotions. Since this is the domain of geeks you should try to pit two types of geekware that accomplish pretty much the same thing against one another. Like KDE vs. Gnome. That way, people will get really pissed off and feel like they have to voice their opinion. A little FUD never hurt things either. Try to get a topic like 'Your Rights Online' to convince people that their little hobby might be in danger. Be sure to sensationalize whenever possible. If you are having a particularly slow day you can always post the same story twice, just be sure to change the words around a little so you can defend yourself in the event someone notices. Maybe try posting a lot of vaporware article. People love to debate on whether or not some figment of some guy's imagination will ever make it to the market. Too bad you are running a geek site, if you could find a way to work politics in there you'd be sitting on a gold mine.

  • Not to be all contrary and picky, but the idea that stockholders of corporations care only about money is dangerous. Sadly, most American stockholders are greedy and couldn't possibly understand investing in corporations except for the purpose of making money (this has more to do with the real values of most Americans than it has to do with any inherent characteristic of capitalism). But it doesn't have to be this way. Shareholders are free to vote their shares for whatever goals or aims they have. It just so happens that most corporations and groups of shareholders are caught in this loop where the company sets its primary goal as making money for shareholders, and investors choose those companies because that is the primary goal. But these same people, in their daily lives, and these same companies, at tax time, freely give away large chunks of money to churches, the United Way, and numerous other charity organizations so that those organizations will do "good things". What they miss is the obvious opportunity for some of those "good things" to be done right at the company-- in this case, IBM appears to have caught on. The simple fact is that being environmentally responsible is often very profitable, because it takes to heart the old saying "a penny saved is a penny earned". There are entire mutual funds devoted to the issue of socially responsible or ecologically sound investing (so further shame should accrue to Mr. Nader for being so heavily invested in the Magellan fund, thereby owning shares indirectly in so many of the corporations he spent his campaign lambasting). Companies which take the concerns of the communities they serve to heart become companies which inspire customer loyalty. In this case, IBM is actually doing a good deed, and thereby reaping the reward of positive public opinion (and it doesn't hurt if they modeled this business in a way that has a solid revenue model). This is probably good for the bottom line. On the other hand, companies that make landmines, or sell infant formula to third world countries find themselves at the center of a very negative public debate, which even if it doesn't harm customer loyalty can only consume resources within the corporation to deal with the controversy. So, shareholders should demand more than just a decent return on investment-- they should demand that companies do the right thing. Which is often a win-win situation, since doing the right thing is often good business.
  • I believe that batteries can be taken back to the stores for recycling in Europe only because the battery companies there are required by law to have a recycling structure in place. Perhaps the recycling of batteries results in less reclaimable material than recycling paper, plastic or aluminum parts.
    I believe that in the USA, that sort of legislation would be seen as restrictive and therefore may be difficult to approve.
    In Brasil, although battery recycling is mostly ignored in most regions (with exceptions mostly in the southern region), I have seen several recycling dumpsters with a specific bin for batteries. I am not sure what they actually do with them after collection. As for recycling other material, that process runs the gamut of modern recycling sites to poor who live off meager earnings from picking through trash landfills. Rather sad.
    I have tried to find places to recycle used batteries in Albuquerque, NM. Unfortunately, the recycling bins found at the Wild Oats grocery stores are only for paper and glass. Radio Shack was of no help.
    I, for one, would be interested in a list of places one could normally take the batteries to be recycled. Anyone?
  • I have a closet full of worthless 386's and a drawer of token ring nics. Old monitors make great fish tanks,
    I'm assuming that the insides of your monitor didn't become part of your fish tank, so they went someplace. The landfill is the wrong place.

    I guess I've always managed to hand down my old equipment (thus making it somebody elses problem) and I'm too lazy to deal with tax receipts or hassles from donating to charitable organizations.

  • I followed the links and wrote them a short email and asked. The reply came back quickly, (showing that IBM definitely has a clue [cluetrain.org]) and unambigously...

    Hi. The consumer calls IBM or goes to IBM's web site and purchases the
    product take back for $29.99. The consumers pays. The consumer receives a
    kit with special label for UPS. The consumer packages the PC and takes it
    to UPS. UPS ships it to Envirocycle in Hallstead, Penna., for recycling or
    donation. Hope that helps. Best.

    So, I clipped the address lines off the bottom (because I didn't ask for permission to post, but it seems reasonable to quote them). This area of ettiquite is still up for grabs, IMHO.

    This seems like a reasonable sum to include shipping, and to find a good home (I hope) for all of the hardware that works, but I don't want to have to support if it breaks because I gave it to a person.

    Mike Warot, Hoosier

  • Dammit, I screwed up the tag. freeboxen.com [freeboxen.com]

  • Re:Odd (Score:2)

    by Maryck ( 84 )
    The fact is that eventually something like this is going to become mandated due to environmental and resource concerns. Once that happens, the recycling and disposal costs will be built into the purchase cost. IBM is simply getting a jump on this by starting an independent program now. Since they cannot influence the purchase price, they need to charge a disposal fee.

    BTW, most cities already do charge a disposal fee for computers, TVs, etc since they qualify as hazardous waste. It might not be 30 dollars, but it is not something you can do for free.
  • I am sure that IBM is not going to lose a whole bunch on this, but there isn't a whole lot you are going to do with some vintage equipment. E.g. what is the current market for working VT320 terminals. Well, the answer is not much. I sold one on ebay for all of $1, and the buyer begged to back out when he found out I wasn't local to him. In MA, the trash won't pick it up, Goodwill won't take them, and they take up space. Unless you want to find a friendly dumpster after hours, you are stuck with it. Sure, you turn some into routers, intranet file servers, etc. but how many does any one person need? Ever try and give away a 386?
  • great!! now we have to go the local computer store and upon up all the new Pentium 4's to make sure that IBM didnt use recycled parts. Yes sirree, this here new computer comes with IBM latest and greatest, what they call a four eight six processor. For a limited time only we will throw in a one hundred and twenty million byte harddrive for free with a 6 yr commitment to MSN.
  • In Atlanta I do volunteer work for a non-profit called FREEBYTES [freebytes.org] they take ANY computer equipment, refurbish it, and redistribute to other non-profit orginizations. We have deals with scrap plastic and metal recyclers to dispose of cases, and will recycle CRTs with a $10 donation.
  • I think the order of "Reuse, Recycle" is important and there is no need to recycle any working or repairable hardware. If you can't give it to the kid down the street or the Linux enthusiast who needs a firewall, then perhaps these should be sent to another continent. Only when the machine or parts are not repairable should they be taken down into raw materials.

    TheGeek

  • So for $30 I can get rid of my VAX-6000? (Score:4)

    by Rorschach1 ( 174480 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:48AM (#624391) Homepage
    Cool... maybe I'll finally be able to park in my garage! The 6GB of hard drive space I could use, except for the fact that the storage array draws about 20 amps and sounds like a 747 taking off.

  • Recycle Computer Parts? (Score:5)

    by BiggestPOS ( 139071 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:49AM (#624392) Homepage
    Dear GOD Why? I think I've yet to throw away anything sort of computer hardware no matter how old or worthless, there is a mouse (works actually) hangiing from my rearview mirror, I have a closet full of worthless 386's and a drawer of token ring nics. Old monitors make great fish tanks, and I've never found a whole computer that didn't have some use. I'm not going to pay IBM $30 to haul off my machine, considering the possibility they might donate it to some charitable organization, and then THEY get the tax-break. Heh, I'd hate that. Umm, something else, I love my computer parts and wouldn't part with them, unless of course you paid ME.

  • Odd (Score:3)

    by Auckerman ( 223266 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:49AM (#624395)
    I'm not sure if I understand. Will IBM pay you $30 or do you play IBM $30 to recycle your computer? It's actually unclear in the press release.

    Also, what advantages does recycling a computer have over just giving it to a needy person (or something like Goodwill)? I actually own a Color Classic (its a collector's item) that is hooked up to my LAN (OS X PB running natd routing to ppp) and functions wonderfully for my kid to do email and web browsing. Seems like a waste to just dismantle a computer that still works.

  • In my department, we currently have at least fourty old 286 machines in the attic, enough broken moniters to make a video-wall, and several Sun boxes from the 80's. We never have been able to do anything with them, just put them in the attic. Now, it's almost too crowded to walk up in there, and there are more important, chemistry-related instruments needing the storage space.
    This isn't just great because of the enviornmental impact, but also the way it will cut down on all the damn clutter...
    --
  • You're right, Envirocycle is just a warehouse full of CRTs on crats with a cracked concrete floor and a stagnant smell in the air... how do I know? I worked for MATCO this summer as a test engineer for U.S. Assemblies, Hallstead. Matco owns several U.S. Assemblies plants (PCB assembly), a board company, and Envirocycle... Envirocycle happened to be the bottom floor of the warehouse... oh yeah, they also have a pretty nice machine shop.

  • Why not Freeboxen? (Score:3)

    by shik0me ( 235948 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:50AM (#624401)
    I can see this as primarily a benefit to businesses...for individuals, why not just donate to Freeboxen? (www.freeboxen.com) Then you don't even need to pay the shipping...
  • When I was photography student, our school was required to save certian chemicals because of the silver content. Photographic films/papers function because of the light sensitivity of silver. Thus the chemical that fixes the image on the film or paper contains a fair amount of unused silver. So the fixer is saved so that it can be sent off and the silver can be reclaimed.

    I'd imagine that with all the older electronics out there a fair amount of gold could be reclaimed from the parts.

    anything is better than just dumping the stuff in the ground to be forgotten about.

  • ...they are recycling!

    (Yeah, pretty lame. But I couldn't resist.. :))

  • You're absolutely correct there! So many American (and other) "repair" personnel have been told their time is worth more than the cost of the new component, they are taught to replace (usually) rather than repair almost everything. In other countries, those with repair skills or expertise (often self-taught, or taught by peers) actually do REPAIR parts. Their skills and knowledge are seen as very valuable, even if their wages (if any) don't reflect that value. (Then again, just having a source of regular income is valued by workers in many of the countries where used equipment ends up.)

    I knew many persons in a global organization who used to take their laptops (wrapped in a towel) with them every time they went to any African country, and routinely left them there. (This was a nonprofit, private group.) Each member would simply buy a new laptop on arriving back home. Those laptops were valued extremely highly by the communities which received them, despite all the bother of getting them charged where electricity is intermittent, and keeping them repaired when few experts are around. Some schools in the poorest nations have only 2-3 ancient (PC jr., even!) machines for hundreds of eager students, donated by volunteers.

    In fact, if you're ever about to travel to such a country, please search the Web for pleas for those about to travel to act like a courier to take old used computers (already donated) with them: Just shipping them, without anyone on hand to shepherd them through customs, means they won't arrive at their destination!

  • Damn man! You're just being cruel to yourself and your machines by starving it for memory! On average I have something like 210 megs of memory per machine! And that's not enough sometimes! You hear the machine start to knock on the HD, screaming its clickety-clack pain to the world, and you know you're a bad, bad man.

    Get thee to a online merchant NOW! Memory is dirt cheap!! Spend three hours of your pay to get that puppy from 64 to 192! End the pain! The suffering! Think of those achingly overused bits in your swap!
  • Heh - sounds like the EPA could declare _your_ living area as a hazardous waste SuperFund-cleanup site :)
  • Now, if you're computer is too old for you, is it benefiting the poor and needy to have it? Only if you want to keep them poor and needy....We need a government program to get Windows 2000 compatible computers into the ghettos

    I take issue with this.

    1. I have personally seen a child (single mother, no health care, just off welfare) light up who I gave an old 6116CD PowerMac (601-60MhzPPC/72MB ram). I have also personally seen that same very child a year later install both LinuxPPC and MacOS 7.6 as a dual boot machine. He is now 11 years old and likes to hose his Linux Install by recompiling everything he can and tinkering with every config file he can find. Evenally, he will make a LOT of money doing that to make a computer work.

    2. The government should not dictate what Operating System should people use. It's already hard enough to find a usable competitor to Windows, we don't need it any harder.

    3. Even if the govt did have a vested interest in giving computers of a default OS to the poor, Win2000 is still nothing more than a niche OS compared to Win9X/ME, MacOS and in some markets Un*x based OS.

  • I guess it really doesn't matter why they are doing it... It's just sad to see that government must give some type of reward for behavior that we all should be exhibiting for our own good (and the good of future generations.)

  • huge problems with your justification (Score:3)

    by phossie ( 118421 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @11:42AM (#624417)
    from the linked article (which is only an appendix to a massive journalistic project)- bold type is my emphasis:

    "We're a wicked throwaway society." Plastic packaging and fast-food containers may seem wasteful, but they actually save resources and reduce trash. The typical household in Mexico City buys fewer packaged goods than an American household, but it produces one-third more garbage, chiefly because Mexicans buy fresh foods in bulk and throw away large portions that are unused, spoiled or stale. Those apples in Dittersdorf's slide, protected by plastic wrap and foam, are less likely to spoil. The lightweight plastic packaging requires much less energy to manufacture and transport than traditional alternatives like cardboard or paper. Food companies have switched to plastic packaging because they make money by using resources efficiently. A typical McDonald's discards less than two ounces of garbage for each customer served -- less than what's generated by a typical meal at home.

    Plastic packaging is routinely criticized because it doesn't decay in landfills, but neither does most other packaging, as William Rathje, an archaeologist at the University of Arizona, has discovered from his excavations of landfills. Rathje found that paper, cardboard and other organic materials -- while technically biodegradable -- tend to remain intact in the airless confines of a landfill. These mummified materials actually use much more landfill space than plastic packaging, which has steadily been getting smaller as manufacturers develop stronger, thinner materials. Juice cartons take up half the landfill space occupied by the glass bottles they replaced; 12 plastic grocery bags fit in the space occupied by one paper bag.

    so, uh, yeah - some Mexican families produce a greater initial bulk of garbage, but it's made up of mostly fresh, unprocessed organic food products. which biodegrade extremely quickly, unlike other "organic" products like paper (or worse packaging materials), which has been processed and condensed so that you're basically waiting for a hyperdense portion of a tree to biodegrade. it also lacks othe natural factors (various critters) that will help the process. that will, of course, take longer than a mostly-eaten apple.

    comparing easily compostable waste mass to plastic and other petroleum waste that will take (at least) many hundreds of years to biodegrade is an absolute farce - it's comparing apples and plastic wrap, and they're just not the same thing.

    similar quality journalism pervades the rest of that article. the plastic waste might be lighter day by day, but it doesn't go away, either. when was the last time anybody saw plastic detritus?

    i'd also like to point out that a large part of McDonald's waste is carried out of the store by customers, and thus is probably not accounted for with those numbers.

  • Batteries need recycling too... (Score:3)

    by cluening ( 6626 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:52AM (#624422) Homepage
    One thing I rarely see mentioned is the need for battery recycling. Those little things are full of lead, mercury, various acids, and all kinds of other nasty stuff (depending on the flavor of battery). Battery rechargers are a good way to keep them out of the environment, but remembering not to just throw them away is the best thing in the end. There are normally places in most cities (I think, at least here in the US) to take dead batteries. Use them!

  • Uncle Vinny's Discount Computer Disposal (Score:3)

    by spellcheckur ( 253528 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2000 @10:53AM (#624424)
    Home Stereo lacking DTS?
    Do you still have a Tube TV?
    Is there a "windows" key on your keyboard?!

    DON'T JUST SIT THERE! Call Uncle Vinny's Discount Computer Disposal for all your Disposal Needs!

    We'll take all your unused computer equiment, VCRs, DVD Players and home stereos (working order only, please) for the low, LOW price of $14.99 (shipping not included, taxes may apply).

    We'll get rid of that out-of-date P3-500 so you don't have to!

    *Uncle Vinny takes no knowledge of what open-source operating system or pr0nographic DVDs may be used on your disposed of junk, but don't you worry! it won't be traceable to you! Call 1-800-COMP-U-GON and wait for the black van at the end of your block!

  • This is an IBM plot to ruin Linux (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Once IBM has cornered the market on 16 meg 486's, what will we run Linux on?

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