Microsoft Patenting IM Translation?

theodp writes "The USPTO just published Microsoft's patent application for a Method and system for translating instant messages, in which the software giant demonstrates how an English-speaking sender can type 'Hi' in an IM and it will be translated to 'Hola' for a Spanish-speaking recipient."

A couple thoughts

Now, that this is a patent grab exploiting a broken system, is fairly evident. However, two thoughts:

1. This patent is described as setting forth "A method and system translating instant messages between users who communicate in different languages"
Notice that it's only one method being patented; there's nothing stopping me from coming up with my own method. This is not a good patent, but there are worse (one-click shopping comes to mind).

2. This patent, if worded a bit differently, could set forth a way to transparently translate between the native languages of devices, not users, which would perhaps be a more interesting patent considering IPv6, pervasive intercommunication between devices, et cetera; did Microsoft drop the ball on this one?

Re:A couple thoughts

the message is translated prior to transmission, not upon reaching the recipient. Does any prior art cover this?

Well, I have worked with database systems where the language of the screen displays is selected based on a user profile: the screens are transmitted already translated to the client (admittedly not on the fly translation). I have also used a little known service called Google that uses preferences to decide which language I normally work with and to offer translations from other languages to this language. This translation is also done prior to delivery to the client.

On the other hand, Microsoft may be the first vendor to translate messages in a specific manner for a particular kind of messenger service.

The situation with software patents is becoming totally bizarre. Actually, I almost wonder if someone in the patent office is trying to help point up the absurdity to a degree where the need for changes in the law will become obvious even to the US Congress.

Re:A couple thoughts

This was probably a marketing department patent.

They're probably out to launch some kind of "We're so much better than AOL campaign and wanted to make sure that this bullet point on their list of features could be unique to them.

The fact that they did it poorly is unsurprising.

Given the way babel fish treats documents with whole paragraphs worth of context, It's hard to imagine that IM language translation is going to be remotely useful.

Claude: Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck.

Brrrring! You have a new translated message from: buddy_claude "Hello, I use recreational vehicles. The space you left was cleansed by Fritz repeatedly. It is great.

I just tried this with the fish...

Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck

English to Spanish....

Hi, Ivan, ese limpiador del vaccuum que usted dejó
está en el fritz otra vez, él no aspira.

Spanish back to English...

Hi, Ivan, that cleaner of the vaccuum that you left you are in the Fritz again, he does not aspire.

Close but not quite...

Microsoft will have it hands full.

Sean D.

some more translations

Secure computing is our focus-

we are as insecure as hell can be.

automatic windowsupdate-

we don't need anymore embarassments.

US legal system-

we gotta check which pocket it is in.

We are optimistic about china-

Bill will not be alive to see MS china turn a profit.

aids program africa-

You will be given 60 million $. 40 million will come
back to the US in inflated drug profits.

windows eula-

you've handed your ass to us on a gold plate.

xbox-

we gotta blow that 40 billion somewhere ya know.

pocket pc -

Its just happy to see you.

WindowsME-

We got that one done by monkeys. The ones who rivalled
Shakespeare. Our real engineers were trying to figure out
if their muffins were y2k compliant.

Microsoft Test Labs-

Have you rebooted your toaster today?

Hotmail-

We haven't gotten to the bottom yet. But we're getting there

Outlook Express-

Your gateway to the wonderful world of viruses.

Clippy-

The result of years of hard research at our lame labs.

Apple-

Our *real* research labs.

Fun with Babelfish...

With the incorrect "vaccuum" spelling, things get a bit messed up:

English-French-English:
Hello, Ivan, this pickling solution of vaccuum that you left is on fritz still, it does not suck.

English-Portugese-English:
Hi, Ivan, this liquid of cleanness that of vaccuum you left is in fritz another time, it does not suck.

However, with the correct spelling og "vacuum", something still gets lost in the translation, especially if you use more than one step:

English-French-German-English:
Good day, Iwan, this vacuum cleaner, which you left, is not still on Fritz, it sucks.

and my personal favorite,
English-German-French-English:
Hallo, is not again of Ivan, this vacuum cleaner which you left, on Fritz, sucks to him.

-1 clueless

And the abstract of the one click patent is:

A method and system for placing an order to purchase an item via the Internet. The order is placed by a purchaser at a client system and received by a server system. The server system receives purchaser information including identification of the purchaser, payment information, and shipment information from the client system. The server system then assigns a client identifier to the client system and associates the assigned client identifier with the received purchaser information.

The important part is the CLAIMS, not the abstract. The first claim from the Microsoft translation patent:

1. A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.

This seems to cover pretty much all practical IM autotranslation schemes, if this claim is granted.

Translation between protocol suites is a very different problem and Microsoft and others already have plenty of IP there, which is why things are worded the way they are. I don't think anyone dropped the ball-- this is a very broad, desirable patent if granted.

hum

you are certainly right that it is the claims that matter. However, one thing should be noted about the claim. A claim that is phrased this way means that ALL the components listed have to be included for the patent to apply.

A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.

Thus if you only change one of these parts you have successfully circumvented the patent. Long claims like these ones may seem powerful, but in fact the opposite is true. Generally it is the short ones that have the biggest coverage.

One thing that comes to mind is that the message must be transmitted in translated form. If you transmit it first with a language tag and have the other user translate it then you are OK. And since that solution has now been discussed in a public forum it can never be patented.

Tor

Claim #13

You're right about the claim (#1) you quoted: If someone develops a system that doesn't use user profiles or doesn't transmit the message in translated form, then it won't infringe. But look at claim #13:

13. A system for providing real-time communication over a network between two or more devices to support multiple languages, the system comprising: at least one source device coupled to the network for transmitting a message composed according to a source language; a content translation module having instructions for translating the message into a destination language; and at least one destination device coupled to the network for receiving the message from the content translation module.

This seems to cover any IM system where the translation is done on the server and then re-transmitted to the recipient. It doesn't require that the system have profiles, preferences, etc.

Hopefully this claim will be thrown out as overly broad, but knowing the USPTO it won't be. I know from experience: my name is on a fairly broad patent covering "web-bug" images. Fortunately it's owned by IBM and they're not enforcing it. I got a nice bonus for filing it back in 1996 or so. :-)

Laura

Prior art?

I recall Ultima Online or some other MMPORG having translation capability while chatting.

Re:Prior art?

Even more obvious prior art: Kopete (kde instant messenger) has a plug-in that already does this.

Very true indeed.

Nintendo, SEGA, et al. have been working on this for quite some time now, and have even started to commercialize it. It's one of the emerging trends in MMORPG game design will create interesting interactions and facilitate global play to a greater extent than is now.

Some early results can be seen in the GameCube/DreamCast title "Phantasy Star Online" where you can select from a menu of sentence patterns, subjects, objects, etc. We're trying to get it to the point where you can translate free text, without the awkward results that stuff like Babelfish, et al. yield, maybe augmented by a player-aided cache of words and phrases, with improved using in-game human feedback and machine learning.

I am really looking forward to the time where international players freely interact -- it will be an interesting sociology experiement to see how national and cultural means, norms and paradigms manifest themselves in a virtual world.

Re:Prior art?

Prior art doesn't appear to matter any longer. The patent office doesn't have the capacity, capabitlity or the subject matter knowledge to search for, find, and apply prior art. Just approve it and let the courts find the prior art.

Re:Prior art?

Prior art doesn't appear to matter any longer. The patent office doesn't have the capacity, capabitlity or the subject matter knowledge to search for, find, and apply prior art. Just approve it and let the courts find the prior art.

This is why we need to change the system so that patents are published upon submission. The public can submit comments and prior art to the patent office and they can act more as administrators, like they are doing now. If a company doesn't want to risk giving up trade secrets in failed submissions, then they will only submit material that is worthy of a patent.

those examples dont pertain. read the patent

as is the case with most computer patents, you have to -read- them to determine their fitness. the short description can't possibly hold all the pertinent details.

this pending patent covers their particular modular translation service, residing at a user-preference-designated network address (whether it be one device or a plurality of devices).

furthermore - the method states that a message comes from a sender, through the communication server directly to a recipient (no translation whatsoever to this point). the recipient's machine then automatically sends a translation request to the translation server specified in their stored preferences, and the result of that translation request is displayed.

the uniqueness of this system is that someone could set their preferences to point at a 3rd party translation service that perhaps gives better results than the stock german->japanese translation widget that MS might provide. the server passing along the traffic can remain willfully ignorant of any possible translation issues and keeps complexity of its logic down.

you may maintain this is a 'Bad Patent'(tm), and indeed babelfish is curiously close in function and it's use in procedure, to this patent.

in UO/PSO/etc the server handles translation without automatic user request.

therefore, those 'prior art' examples are not relevant.

remember, it's -procedure- and -method- that are patentable. not -functionality-.

you CAN'T patent 'translation' (and this patent isn't trying to). you CAN patent a non-obvious implimentation of it.

Bite the wax tadpole

This should be interesting.. I wonder how many international incidents will be caused by poor translation once we're used to assuming it works well.

Re:Bite the wax tadpole

Hell id pay for soemtont to write somethign that can autotranslate my bad typing into english.

My irc 'pals' have made me a verb to stand for typos.

What do you want to say today?

I don't know if I want Microsoft in charge of semantics.

User one types: "I use Linux, how about you?"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I am a communist with viral ideas towards intellectual property"

User one types: "Have you heard about Microsoft's monopoly and their under-handed business tactics?"
....translater....
User two's screen: "Have you heard about how Microsoft's masterful innovation in information technology has made it the industry leader?"

Or if Stallman coded such a utility/library:

User one types: "I want some pizza"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I (as in "self") want (as in "desire") some GNU\Pizza"

Re:What do you want to say today?

User two's screen: "I (as in "self") want (as in "desire") some GNU\Pizza"

And it better be free!

Re:What do you want to say today?

No as in pizza.

OMG!11!!

How does it translate "omg, LOL"? Or perhaps there's a teenager->English option?

Is there prior art?

I know we like to challenge all these Amazon patents that come down the pipe citing tons of prior art and how ridiculous the patent sounds...

This patent sounds like a strategic business move though and something that nobody else is doing...

Cool!

Now we get to see how badly automatic translation can be butchered. Seriously though -- it's nice to see someone trying to bridge language gaps like this. Maybe this will create a demand for higher quality automatic translation.

Cool

My hovercraft is full of eels!

Code!

Heres the code!

char *translate()
{
char *str;
int i;
i = rand() % 5;
switch( i ) {
case 0: str = "What r u wearing?"; break;
case 1: str = "Want 2 cyber?"; break;
case 2: str = "All your base are belong to us"; break;
case 3: str = "I'm a stripper"; break;
case 4: str = "Bill Gates is great :)"; break;
default: str = "lol";
}
return str;
}

Can't see it working to well, babelfish has a hard enough job dealing with... generally.. well written websites. How will it handle, "how u 2 day?"?

(Sorry for the bad code... its been a while...)

1337?

But the real question is: will it translate English to 1337 so I can talk to my little cousin?

Me: Haha, I just beat you at CS!
Translation: 0w|\|d j00! C$ p053r!

Re:1337?

Let me help you out here: Normal to 733t5p34k translator [anigaming.com].

sweet!

Linux user sends: Linux rocks!
..
MS' IM translation magic
..
Joe Lunchbucket gets: http://www.goatse.cx

emoticons

I wonder if ;) will get translated as "bite me".

Or what about the one sticking your tongue out? Isn't that VERY offensive in some cultures? Great...we're going to start WWIII because of this.

Translations

I have gotten messages sent to me in other languages, and using every wonderful translator that I could find, I still have had no idea what the messages are actually about. If the translating method Microsoft is planning is like all the others I have found then there's really no need to fret in my opinion, because they will not make the messagung any clearer. But if it is more advanced then that's a totally different situation...

Do-it-yourself

I have a script that runs incoming messages via Babelfish, by using the domain address as the translation source language/country. Am I now breaking Microsoft's patent?

Oh, I can just see it now.

Translating isn't the same as replacing the verbatum text word-for-word. There are idiomatic and grammatical nuances to take into account.

Language1: May I buy you dinner?
Translation: Can I offer you money to eat you?

Bad Headline

This is below par for Slashdot. I would have expected the headline to read "Microsoft patents IM" or "Microsoft patents translation".

How are we supposed to come up with knee-jerk reactions without reading the article if Slashdot doesn't help us?

Prior Art

Kopete [kde.org] has a plugin for this already in CVS. I've been using it for the past few days. Kopete is really comming along nicely.

Obligatory Patent "Translation"

There are several systems currently available for addressing such language barriers. In one system, a user of an instant messaging tool types a message in their source language, preferred language, or into a text field, then "cuts and pastes" the text into a separate translation program. The user must then activate the translation tool to translate the message into the destination language, and cut and paste the translated text back into the text field of the instant messaging tool. Once this is complete, the user can transmit the message. While this method can be effective, it is obvious that the process of continually cutting, pasting and switching between applications significantly impedes the communication process.

Translates to:

Okay, we finally admit that the point-n-click interface isn't the single most effective means of accomplishing every last task mankind could ever come up with.

So we hereby patent the 'pipe' command.

Even in systems where entries typed into the messaging tool are converted "on-the-fly", such as by activating a "Translate" button that links the instant messaging program to a translation tool; the extra steps required by the user compromise the real-time communication experience.

Translates to:

Screw you Jeff, I just patented the zero-click!

What about the babblefish Gaim plugin?

Is that not prior art?

Language translation is not exactly an innovative idea.

Anyone else care to list babblefish style plugins for their favorite IMs.

Published Prior Art

http://www.atamiri.cc/en/Atamkatiri/ [atamiri.cc]
From the site:

Under the auspicies of our sponsors Unión Latina, París, and Neotec, La Paz, our tiny Language Engineering R&D group has updated ATAMIRI to enable this test operation in the Web. The current version covers all 42 translation directions for the Latin languages: Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian, Rumanian and also for English and German.

We are aware that during this initial operation, some translation directions are better in quality and lexico than others. Please take it with humor and trust we are permanently working to improve translation quality in the implemented languages. The system's potential capabilty has not yet been fully exploited.

"Qopuchawi" means in antique Aymara the site where "qopuchasiña" takes place; i.e. chating in a circle of persons; "qopucha" is the chat itself and "qopu" is the group of persons chating in the circle where each and every one has the same right to be heard. We intend to contribute for the Web to become a global real "qopuchawi", without language primacies which are indeed barriers.

¡Recepción!

What they type...

a/s/l por favor Hola, cómo va? Qué usted está usando? Desee al cyber? Satisfágame en los Juguetes R Nosotros en la cañería. Traeré un vino de la botella y dos condoms.

What your kids see...

a/s/l please Hi, how goes? What you are using? Wish when cyber? Meet in Toys R We in the pipe. I will bring a wine of bottle and two condoms.

prior art

Fire [sourceforge.net] does that.

Prior Art?

This patent was filed on December 28, 2001 [uspto.gov]. Version 0.29.a [sourceforge.net] of the fantastic GPL'd instant messenger Fire [sourceforge.net] introduced "Automatic, inline foreign language translation" on December 12, 2001 [sourceforge.net].

I would also imagine that the feature was in CVS and publically downloadable before that.

W

Classic Translation Problem

English : "The spirit is strong, but the flesh is weak"

Tranlator - English -> Russian

Russian : "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"

Automatic translation is a classic AI problem. Shouldn't there have to be a "working" prototype prior to issueing the patent??

Let's see a model!

In the old days, up until 1870, the patent office required models to accompany a patent application.

1836 -- The Patent Act of July 4, 1836 reestablished the examination system of 1790. Models were once again required by the Commissioner. "The model, not more than 12 inches square, should be neatly made, the name of the inventor should be printed or engraved upon, or affixed to it, in a durable manner."

It was left to the commissioner of patents on whether or not he wanted to request a model. This case absolutely screams to the model requirement. In my opinion, for technology patents certainly, a person should not be able to patent something that they have no model for.

Microsoft is probably the least able to produce this product. Translation software? Show us that you have this technology. (Yeah right.) You want to translate on the fly on text filled with abbreviations and slang?

Okay, show us that you can do this. Show us your model (AND make it no more than 12 inches square!). Given their record breaking incompetence, there is no way in God's green acres that Microsoft has this technology workable or will have it in the near future.

Maybe a commissioner of patents write in campaign would fix all of these software problems up?

FBI needs training to learn IM

Sort of off-topic, but a lot of joke posts here are saying how difficult it is to translate IM. How difficult is it? The Washington Post had an article [washingtonpost.com] describing how FBI agents trying to catch pedophiles are being trained by 13 year old girls to learn how to use IM to act like a teenage girl. Some quotes:

As undercover assignments go, posing as a teenage girl online to catch pedophiles has its share of challenges for the typical FBI agent. Should he ever capitalize words in instant messages? Is it okay to say you buy your clothes at 5-7-9? And what about Justin Timberlake? Is he still hot or is he so two years ago?

[snip]

Most of their classmates did not know about their FBI work until yesterday, when Bald commended them on their achievements. Thanks to the girls, Bald said, the FBI has gathered such valuable information as: never begin a chat with "hello"; never use proper grammar in instant messages; and "pos" stands for "parent over shoulder."

If adult humans need to learn how to speak IM, how can a computer?

Been available for Mac OS X for over an year

I've been using for a few years a fantastic multi-protocol IM client for Mac OS X called Fire [sourceforge.net].

It has had automatic translation capabilities in several languages for well over an year, and it works very well. Further more, Fire also supports AIM, ICQ, Jabber, MSN, Yahoo, IRC protocols.

Microsoft is following industry practice

This is the kind of patent all big computer companies file a lot of: trivial technology and lots of related prior art, but nobody else has patented exactly this thing. Why is Microsoft doing this? To be able to achieve cross-licensing with other companies that have big patent portfolios. The effect is to keep small competitors from being able to enter any of their markets (because they will be stepping on some of Microsoft's patents), and to be able to have leverage against open source projects.

I think this is ultimately only fixable legislatively. It's important that the EU do not pass software patents--by having at least one large market where open source software can be developed without this nonsense, people will keep creating software even for functionality that's patented in the US. But in the long run, we really need to get patent reform in the US.

The effects of these kinds of patents are so hostile to business and competition that sooner or later, legislators must see the light.

Translate this, Bill

Baise mon cul.

Si vous croyez qu'on peut tener un brevet pour traduction des MI, vous etes un plus gros connard que j'ai pensee.

Encoule toi, voleur!

IBM was demonstrating this 3 or 4 years ago

They have/had a product, Lotus Translation Services for Sametime [ibm.com], that plugs into their Sametime [lotus.com] IM system and does translation by interfacing to some separate tranlsation server, such as their own WebSphere Translation product. They even have a demo [ibm.com] of it on the web.

There may be detail differences in the implementation that the Microsoft patent application describes, but in general this is nothing new.

I've done this before

Back in the ICQ days someone msg'd me from french canada. I translated their speech using babelfish and my own back into french. I can belive this patent was granted, but, christ. It's blindingly obvious how to do it. The only problem is that there is no easily available 'translation libraries' to plug use that actualy work. Hrm, perhaps a good target for open source developers :)

That said, there is some prior art in William Gibson's Iduro where a conversation is translated back and forth between english and japanese. Sure, it was as audio, but really what's the diff?

Reason to be paranoid?

They write:

Je deteste Microsoft!

You see:

I love the innovation and security that I get only with fine Microsoft products!

Of course, if you had read the 40-page EULA for this translation software, you'd have known that this was going to happen.

MITRE's simple instant messaging

But it's alredy licensed by the MITRE corp. :-) http://www.mitre.org/news/releases/02/transclick08 _14_02.html [mitre.org], it's called Translingual Instant Messaging (TrIM).

Diplomat

An IRC client called Diplomat has done this at least since 1998. Looks like the site is gone now, but can still be found using the way back machine: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.universe.c om

The dawn of a new patent era

The first era of software patents:

Do something we've done for hundreds of years - but do it on a computer!

The second era of software patents:

Do something we've done on computers for decades - but do it on the web!

The new era of software patents:

Do something we've done on the web for years - but do it on IM!

I have prior art on this

in 1997 we had a company that had a multiplayer
game with chat, and we could set it to run messages
through babelfish on the server (or whatever AltaVista's translation service was).

We even did translation twice for some games, The idea was to simulate international business negotiation, so to make the communication harder, we'd have messages translated from english to german to english, to simulate a scenario where a merger between an english and german company had taken place.

Ridiculousness

Patents must become increasingly absurd in order to make it clear to people that patenting ideas is not the best way to ensure that inventors receive credit for their innovations.

Perhaps instead we ought to have a public registry which new ideas may be entered into, and all prior art may also be seen and shown when it exists. Those with a truly novel concept would be clearly noted as such and those making use of their invention would voluntarily contribute to encourage the further development of science and progress.

Much like the Free Software movement, but as applied to all inventions.

Ayttm gives prior art

Ayttm [sourceforge.net] does this already...does the patent office not know about Google [google.com]?