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Copyright [CBDTPA] Bill Universally Rejected

Posted by Hemos on Wed Apr 10, 2002 04:21 PM
from the good-thing-too dept.
smcavoy writes " Globe Technology is carrying a article about the CBDTPA. "We haven't received one e-mail in support of the Hollings bill," said Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Mimi Devlin. "It seems like there's a groundswell of support from regular users." I wonder if the technology industry was pro CBDTPA, would we be hearing as many bad things about it, in the press?"
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  • Information (Score:4, Informative)

    by BrianGa (536442) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:23PM (#3319455) Homepage
    Information on the Security Systems Standards and Certification Act itself is available here [216.110.42.179].
  • Finally, someone listens to the USERS by jvbunte (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:24PM
    • Re:You poor sap by jvbunte (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:54PM
      • Re:You poor sap by czardonic (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:16PM
        • Re:You poor sap by GigsVT (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:29PM
        • Re:You poor sap by ichimunki (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:42PM
          • Re:You poor sap by czardonic (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:48PM
          • Re:You poor sap (Score:5, Insightful)

            by maxpublic (450413) on Thursday April 11 2002, @01:49AM (#3321671) Homepage
            The problem is that voting, even if presented with a decent candidate (which I haven't had in years), rarely changes anything. Why? Because the underlying bureaucracy is fundamentally invested in making sure that things work just the way they do right now, leaving the real power in the hands of unelected officials.

            I'm not speaking as a typical slashdot ranter here (I do that elsewhere), but one who (unfortunately) has worked for government at various levels in the past. The administration - meaning the bureaucracy the politicians are supposed to direct and control - is actually in charge of the system. They can, and often do, ignore the directives of elected officials, convincing said officials that they actually are doing as they're told to the best of their ability. At every level of government I worked in upper, non-elected management had nothing but contempt for elected officials and openly plotted (yes, I use the word 'plotted') ways to get around directives or ignore them altogether. And, since 99% of the information available to politicians *comes from these very same departments* they were able to present a convincing case that 'thing x' couldn't be done, or could be done only by 'process y', while at the same time deriding public opposition as being from cranks for folks who 'just didn't understand the realities of the situation'. Elected officials, who generally aren't the brightest bulbs by any standards, are just as easily snowed by 500-page reports full of tables and statistics as anyone else is, no matter how bogus the numbers might be.

            This situation is exacerbated by the fact that these bureaucracies - at all levels, check your city code if you think otherwise - have the unconstitutional power to pass laws without the permission of elected officials (they're called 'administrative rules', but they have the same force as any law) and to raise taxes as well (these are called 'administrative fees'). The ability to legislate and tax at the whim of unelected bureaucrats without having to answer to whatever legislature is in charge at that level of government allows the system to do as it pleases while paying lip-service to the politicians.

            So what do these management-types occupy themselves with? Primarily in contesting with other management-types to increase their own power while diminishing that of rivals. This is done mostly through trying to get the biggest cut of the budget pie and through employing as many people in that division as possible. It's a rather 20th century version of feudal dukedoms hashing it out for the most 'territory' and 'serfs'. There is no 'ultimate end' to this contest; only the contest itself, and the self-worth it generates for these management folks if they score a 'win' at the expense of someone else's 'loss', counts.

            You'd think that the whole damn system was run by a bunch of overgrown frat boys.

            This also explains why government is so bloody wasteful (apart from people taking every opportunity to pad their own pockets, or those of relatives and friends). Enormous resources are thrown towards improving one's place in the contest, without regard as to whether or not it's a wise use of tax dollars. Not that this presents a moral problem; the 'fuck the taxpayer' attitude is also common in management, especially when the taxpayer dares to question the decisions of said management.

            The end result is that you not only have elections where the race boils down to 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' corporate sluts, but a bureaucracy which will do anything in it's power to emasculate a candidate who actually seems interested in serving the common citizen and isn't snowed by internal reports. So even when an election doesn't present you with two versions of the same corporate whore, the system is sure to sabotage the honest guy you vote into office.

            At all levels, the system is fundamentally broken. What to do about it is something I haven't settled on, but I do know that just voting in a decent candidate here or there won't make a damn bit of difference. If you have a decent candidate, that is.

            Max

            [ Parent ]
          • Re:You poor sap by PhipleTroenix (Score:1) Thursday April 11 2002, @06:38AM
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        • Re:You poor sap by czardonic (Score:1) Thursday April 11 2002, @05:07PM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:You poor sap by gandy909 (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:07PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Woohoo! (Score:4, Funny)

    by 11thangel (103409) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:24PM (#3319467) Homepage
    I guess all those people from my CS classes that were mailbombing congress with "SCREW THE CBDTPA" weren't JUST trolls...

    • Re:Woohoo! by PD (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:47PM
      • Re:Woohoo! by smagruder (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @08:46PM
        • Re:Woohoo! by Bob McCown (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @10:43PM
      • Re:Woohoo! by drivers (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:13PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • The real definition of troll (OT) by pyramid termite (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:21PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Special slur!!! by AltaMannen (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @08:41PM
      • Re:Woohoo! by FleshWound (Score:1) Thursday April 11 2002, @01:01AM
      • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Woohoo! by Jonny 290 (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:16PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Press control overstated (Score:3, Insightful)

    by clarkgoble (241742) <clark@lextek.com> on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:25PM (#3319468) Homepage
    The control that media conglomerates have on the press is vastly overstated. Generally I think the press does an adequate job. The superficiality of the press' reporting is due more to the time constraints we, the readers, put them under. You try to gather a huge amount of interviews and information in a few hours. I'm not saying the press is fully accurate, but the problem is that accuracy takes time. By the time that thoughtful analysis can be done, most people no longer care. Further if the press tends towards sensationalism (including in these copyright issues) it is because we the readers tend to go for that angle more.

    i.e. quit the gripping about the press only reporting what MS or so forth want.
    • Re:Press control overstated by Sheetrock (Score:3) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:37PM
    • Re:Press control overstated (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Sarcasmooo! (267601) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:55PM (#3319672) Homepage
      I would [barnesandnoble.com] tend [cjr.org] to disagree [kuro5hin.org].

      The press has always been responsible for it's own failure or success. You can't expect people to regulate it, or steer it in the right direction, when people can only possibly learn of it's misdeeds and mistakes through *gasp*, THE PRESS! The media dips into sensationalism because it allows itself to be driven by profit and whatever it's ratings are, they're NEVER enough. Not ALL people are going to care about what's on the news, it's as simple as that. You can't ruin the news trying to cater to idiots who don't care what's going on outside their small world, and yet, that's exactly what's happened. Sept. 11th should've been a wake up call for the media, as well. I don't know how people could stand for that kind of coverage. Anyone who's watched serious news like the BBC might agree. It was no less than 20 minutes after the planes hit, that NBC had created a 'music video' for the tragedy, with slides of fire, explosions, and people covered in ash flying across the screen as corny, dramatic music played in the background. Despite everything that was happening, it still made me want to turn off the television.

      And I think a lot of people are sick and jaded by the nature of our news media, but it's hard to say if anyone will ever know how big this problem is because, again, they'd have to hear about it from the news media.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Press control overstated (Score:4, Interesting)

        by jafac (1449) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:10PM (#3319780) Homepage
        IIRC, NBC was just copying off of the VERY successful model CNN pioneered for the Gulf War. Don't you remember the Gulf War? The event that propelled CNN to it's skyrocketing success? They had their own Gulf War logo, their own Gulf War theme song - da works. Prior to the Gulf War, CNN was really not taken very seriously as a news organization at all. But the fact that people could turn to them 24 hours a day for the latest coverage, and the fact that they had guys IN Baghdad the night the bombing started, I think were the real reasons CNN became so popular. But I guess when copying success, they'd rather focus on the logos and theme songs. Quite pathetic, really.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Press control overstated by flacco (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:22PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Press control overstated by GunFodder (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:04PM
    • Re:Press control overstated by unixfan (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:19PM
    • Re:Press control overstated by argel (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:08PM
    • WTF ? by joss (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @04:52AM
    • Re:Press control overstated by milo_Gwalthny (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @08:45AM
    • Re:Press control overstated by SacredNaCl (Score:1) Friday April 12 2002, @12:29PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Never give up (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tenman (247215) <slashdot@org.netsuai@com> on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:26PM (#3319481) Journal
    This is a great day in the US. Not that our technology legislation is that much to be proud of, but today is a great day.
  • by Greyfox (87712) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:26PM (#3319484) Homepage
    I'd much more like to see Hollings' career go down in flames. Can concerned citizens still buy those mud-slinging political commercials right before an election? Or did they ban that in the last campaign finance reform package? I think the people of South Carolina need to be told that their guy is trying to make sure they'll never be able to tape another TV show or burn another mix CD for their car.
  • by vkg (158234) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:26PM (#3319486) Homepage
    Remember the Clipper Chip? Encryption export restrictions? The DCMA? The SSSCA?

    The drive to regulate the internet and new technology in general, to force it back into the old way of doing things, isn't going away.

    Even if we beat this one, there will always be another. Don't get complacent.
  • by petree (16551) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:27PM (#3319491) Homepage Journal
    I always have wondered about the actual effect that talking/writing to your representitives has had. It seems like, at least in this case, the decision against it was based almost entirely around citizen outrage. Although there was not the support from the technology sector that would be needed, it feels good to know that there is some balance of power that is not in favor entirely of the RIAA/MPAA. Mmmm...makes me feel all fuzzy inside to know that -all- my rights are not determined by corporate interests.
  • Is Watermarking "Unbreakable"? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:28PM
  • Canadian site..... by tiwason (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:28PM
  • Campaign Donations vs. Votes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spookysuicide (560912) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:28PM (#3319498) Homepage
    At the end of the day, Campaign Donations from media companies like Disney and Universal only go so far. If enough voters are against something, elected representatives tend to vote against it as well. I would urge people to keep writing letters in protest of the bill, as they do seem to make a difference.
  • This is just a heads up. . . (Score:4, Insightful)

    by czardonic (526710) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:29PM (#3319501) Homepage
    . . .to Hollywood to step up the "donations".

    Seriously. Since when do politicians listen to their constituents over deep pocketed industry types? I declare rumors of this bill's demise to be greatly exagerated.
  • Whew! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by return 42 (459012) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:29PM (#3319502)
    Well, that's a relief. Won't have to worry about it now. Nosirree, it's dead, dead, dead. We can all relax.

    I hope no one here is dumb enough to hold this attitude until it really is dead...

    • Re:Whew! by LiENUS (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @09:48PM
      • Re:Whew! by LiENUS (Score:1) Thursday April 11 2002, @01:20PM
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    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • And this whole time... by altaic (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:29PM
  • My Faith restored in Democracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    For all the huffing and puffing I hear about Special Interest Groups, money changing hands, corruption, and the like, occasionally something Really Important comes up that renews my faith in our Government of Checks and Balances.
  • The CE Industry (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lysander Luddite (64349) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:30PM (#3319508)
    Hey the Consumer Electronics industry and the software industry isn't against DRM and copy protection per se. They just don't want to have the method dictated by the government.

    Remember MS received a patent on a DRM OS. They will use that to court everybody who wants to restrict information access, and use it internally to sell/control their own software.
  • And it worked... by gwernol (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:30PM
  • Awe..come on... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:31PM
  • Yes, but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zen Mastuh (456254) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:33PM (#3319534)

    Public opinion doesn't stop autocrats from making repugnant decisions (look at Nixon-Reagan's drug policies for historical perspective). These politicians have already been paid by their investors (RIAA, etc...) to manufacture their product (:%s/SSSCA/nom de jour/), so this bill will become law soon and a majority of Americans--the majority whose opinions match the opinions of their favorite television news personality--will come to believe it is a Good Thing®.

    • Not helping. by JMZero (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:42PM
    • Re:Yes, but... by gwernol (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:33PM
    • Re:Yes, but... by estes_grover (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:49PM
  • Thank goodness. by hardaker (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:33PM
  • CDBPBBTTSTD Aproaching Critical Mass... of EVIL! by Bonker (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:34PM
  • Trying to make it work... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Binky The Oracle (567747) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:34PM (#3319541)

    From the article:

    "They seem satisfied to try to attack it in the press rather than trying to make it work," said Sen. Hollings spokesman Andy Davis.

    Of course they didn't "try to make it work." Why would any tech company risk being associated with stripping the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens. I think the tech companies have recognized that the media conglomerates are going to get their way no matter what. Why lend credibility to the "solution" by participating in a sham process?

    Media companies did learn a valuable lesson with DiVX: don't trust your interests to consumer pressures - it's far more effective to buy legislation instead.

  • Canadian press? by ibis (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:34PM
  • Don't stop the lobbying! by cygnusx (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:35PM
  • Do something (Score:4, Informative)

    by MxTxL (307166) <(moc.rr.lfc) (ta) (rettulm)> on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:37PM (#3319562)
    Be sure to check out the site [digitalconsumer.org] referenced in the article. They helped the effort, and apparently want to do more.
  • No idea on our rights!?!?! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Arethan (223197) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:37PM (#3319565) Journal
    "Until you have a positive assertion of what consumers' rights are, that debate is left in the hands of media companies' lawyers," said Mr. Krauss, who founded Excite, the now-defunct on-line portal.

    Excuse me, but last time I checked, my rights were inalienable and included everything that I didn't willingly give up for the good of society. It has nothing to do with what lawyers have deemed acceptable for me to have. If your business sense is as acute as your legal sense, it's no wonder your portal is now "defunct".
  • Listening to consumers by $beirdo (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:38PM
  • Interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DickPhallus (472621) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:38PM (#3319574)
    I found this blurb interesting

    Media firms could also take a page from the antipiracy playbook of software companies, who concentrate on shutting down large, commercial piracy operations rather than trying to control individual users, he said.

    I would wager that it would be easier to buy a bill than it would be stop some companies like Kaaza or Morpheus...

    Or an even better idea... make digital music cheaper and more usuable.
  • This is amusing. (Score:5, Funny)

    by MongooseCN (139203) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:38PM (#3319576) Homepage
    "They seem satisfied to try to attack it in the press rather than trying to make it work," said Sen. Hollings spokesman Andy Davis.

    What did they expect?

    Hollings: I'd like to pass a bill that will take away all your rights to using digital media.
    Consumers: Hmm how about just some of our rights?
    Hollings: Will taking a way 2/3 of your civil rights be good?
    Consumers: Ok that works for us.
    • designed to be modified by BlueboyX (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:20PM
    • But who will laugh last? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Roland Walter Dutton (24395) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:37PM (#3320189)

      That is apparently uncomfortably close to the truth. Apparently the CBDTPA is mainly intended as a stalking horse [eff.org]. Its proponents don't seriously hope it to pass in anything like its current form, much as they would love if it did. It seems that what they're really aiming for at present is legislation specifically to enforce their plans for digital TV [eff.org]; after their opening demands have been rejected, they'll barter down to that. The resulting legislation will then be praised as the product of compromise and consensus. Both sides will claim a partial victory. And the studios will have exactly what they were hoping to get. Whenever they want some more, they'll simply repeat the process. Eventually it will become politically feasible to pass something like the current CBDTPA, since it will be possible to plausibly claim that it would only tidy up all the piecemeal copy-protection acts and amendments that by then will already be law.

      [ Parent ]
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  • He is just determined to not get it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by drew_kime (303965) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:43PM (#3319603) Homepage Journal
    Technology firms did not want to testify in the hearing, did not offer input while the bill was being drafted, and have offered plenty of criticism but little helpful suggestions since, a Hollings aide said.

    "They seem satisfied to try to attack it in the press rather than trying to make it work," said Sen. Hollings spokesman Andy Davis.


    How much evidence does he need that we don't want it to work? It is a law designed to prevent people from engaging in legal activities, at the sole discretion of corporate interests with no oversight. That's why no, we're most definitely not trying to make it work.
  • seeing is believeing by entheon (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:43PM
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  • Quote of the Day: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tackhead (54550) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:48PM (#3319625)
    "[Tech firms] seem satisfied to try to attack it in the press rather than trying to make it [CBDTPA] work," said Sen. Hollings spokesman Andy Davis.

    <FLASHBACK>

    Imaginary interview with Hollings and Davis:

    Hollings: It's like the time we tried to legislate that pi=3, and these stupid tech forms didn't want to make it work! They kept doggedly insisting that it was this long number, like 3.14159something, and that it couldn't be expressed as a rational number!

    Davis: Yeah, I mean, they wouldn't even compromise on the issue - during Congressional testimony, we had Andy Grove of Intel on the stand, and we offered him "3.14?" He said, "no, it's pi" "22/7?" "No, pi is a transcendental number." Utterly ridiculous. As if good Christians should have to put up with this sort of new age Transcendentalist movement. Maybe in California, but not in South Carolina, by gum!

    Hollings: And the engineers were worse than the mathematicians. We got letters from all these so-called rational thinkers tryin' to convince us that simple things like the wheel and the suspension bridge weren't based on rational numbers! Can't they see that they're the ones being irrational about this?

    Davis: There's just no negotiating with technology people. They don't want to make it work, they don't even want to try to make it work. Why won't they even try to see things from our point of view? Hollings: So we're moving ahead with the legislation. They kept trying to get us to move from 3 to 3.14whatever? We subtracted double than their beloved 0.14159265whatever, and came up with 2.718281828. They can have pi=2.718 or nothing at all!

    Davis: They're bluffing when they say math won't work with our proposal. Maybe it'll just make a few things harder for them in the short term, but when the law makes pi=2.718, they'll have to innovate in order to build anything!

    Hollings: Yeah! Now we'll see who really knows how to promote engineering and mathematical innovation our children's schools!

    </FLASHBACK>

  • Related comments by Scott Andreessen by JeffFurry (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:48PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • We should go on the offensive (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dcavanaugh (248349) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:51PM (#3319647) Homepage
    Now that our complaining has killed SSSCA and scored a direct hit on CBDTPA, we should go after Hollings by encouraging the geeks of South Carolina to hold him accountable for these bills in every public forum they can find. If he is voted out of the Senate, then other potential Disney appointees will realize that acting as an errand boy for the entertainment industry is not without risk. Turning him into a national laughingstock is amusing, but the only people who can make him go away are the people who put him there: the voters of South Carolina.

    According to opensecrets.org [opensecrets.org] he was elected in 1998, which means the next election is 2004. Is it mere coincidence or is the midpoint of a Senate term the ideal time to deal with the sleaziest bills that PAC money can buy?

    I find it really odd that this guy is a Democrat. I'm a Republican, and it's usually my guys who specialize in catering to anti-consumer interests like this. The Democrats ususally waste money on social programs and tax the hell out of the middle class to pay for it. He really should make up his mind: either be sleazy or counterproductive; it's not good to be both.
  • Making examples..start with Fritz by i_want_you_to_throw_ (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:52PM
  • Text of the CBDTPA (S.2048) (Score:3, Informative)

    by 0nion (536822) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:56PM (#3319682)
  • Don't give up the fight yet by jweb (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:58PM
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  • Obviously support should matter... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SmileyBen (56580) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:58PM (#3319696) Homepage
    I think things really have gone out of perspective. The thing that really needs to be remembered in all of this, is the fact that these bills really shouldn't be allowed to happen without support. The thing about copyright is that we have it because, believe it or not, people supposedly want it.

    Essentially, copyright is there to protect society from freeloaders - of course people that /really/ like some pop group / film maker / etc. will pay in an attempt to make sure they make more of their product, but society has agreed that it shouldn't fall to the obsessed few, but instead anyone who gains enjoyment from this sort of thing should contribute - in just the same way everyone should have to pay for trains, not just those that /really/ believe in mass-transport.

    The thing that is forgotten, however, is that this happens because society wants it. The moment the population decides that the cost / benefit proposition isn't good enough, they should be able to get rid of these laws. Hence, if people /really/ want to download music for free, and nobody is willing to pay for it, society should stop forcing people to. Perhaps some people will stop making music, but, as I say, there isn't some God-given right for them to do this for a living if society doesn't value it enough.

    So basically, whilst many things obviously aren't put to the vote, since copyright can only be defended on the basis that if people really think about it they support it, if people really don't it can't be defended. So if people are really against this sort of bill, it would be ridiculous to pass it.
  • It's a digital world (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jafac (1449) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @04:58PM (#3319697) Homepage
    And who jumped on the bandwagon in a big way before any other industry? The music industry. When they converted everything from LP to CD. They had consumers throw out all their old equipment and music collections - and what the consumers got in return was, higher quality audio (of course, some audiophiles debate that. For the sake of argument, fuck them).
    What did the music industry get out of "going digital"? Remarkably lower production and manufacturing and shipping costs. Cheap digital sound processing equipment. Cheap razzle-dazzle digital effects processing. High quality mastering equipment, cheap. Easy to use production tools (cheaper studio labor). Cha Ching! this went right into the record companies' profits.

    However, they squeezed out the digital toothpaste, and once they realized that this allows people to make infinite perfect digital copies, they decided they maybe didn't want digital technology after all.

    RIAA-
    I'll tell you what. Switch back to vinyl. 'k? Really. It'll kill off the music pirates once and for all (shhhh! don't TELL them!!). I know that you lose all those nice benefits that the computer industry gave you with the commoditization of digital technology - but it will also save you from the ugly side effects of the commoditization of digital technology! Gasp! Everyone now has tools on their desktops to make infinite perfect digital copies at no cost!!

    Methinks you guys should have gone and taken a few computer classes before you bought into this whole "digital technology" thing.

    *snicker*
  • Mainstream opposition by swillden (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:00PM
  • In other news... by Khaed (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:03PM
  • Wow!!! by eyegor (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:03PM
  • Those Wacky Corporate Sectors! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Crash Culligan (227354) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:04PM (#3319732) Journal
    Technology firms did not want to testify in the hearing, did not offer input while the bill was being drafted, and have offered plenty of criticism but little helpful suggestions since, a Hollings aide said.

    Can you blame them? The CBDTPA is really just like a gigantic unfunded mandate laid at the doorstep of the tech community with a note tied around it reading "Fix this for us and we'll let you live."

    Bear in mind how much effort it would take to DRM-safe all the computer equipment sold in the country, if not world. Proposed DRM standards would spring up from the ground like swarms of rabid fruitbats, and whenever equipment designed for these DRM systems barfed on legally purchased media, it would be the *tech* sector that gets stuck with the blame, not the *media* sector.

    The media sector tried to save itself money by drafting a bill to prevent piracy and whatnot, and save their income. No surprise there.

    Faced with the expense of all of this new DRM R&D, implementation, and fielding of complaints, the tech sector chose to fight it rather than allow it to pass, and save their income.

    This is probably one of the *few* things that defeated the bill: that all large corporations, not just the media hegemony, are typically greedy and lazy, in that order; I don't believe that grassroots action had anything to do with it.

    The bill will come back. It was the SSS-whatever, it became the CBDTPA, and it will metamorph into something else as long as the Senator From Disney is in office. In the meantime, the best thing we can do to the media companies' war chests is not fill them.

  • MP3 Revolution is Still Vulnerable by ltsmash (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:07PM
  • It's *not* dead, Jim! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SomeoneYouDontKnow (267893) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:12PM (#3319793)

    I think it's great that Congress is getting all these comments against the CBDTPA, but anyone who thinks it's dead is terribly naive. It won't be officially dead until the end of the Congressional term, and it can and probably will be reintorduced next year. The absolute worst thing we can do is to stop now. If we do, our opposition will soon be forgotten, and the bill will get pushed through.

    The best way to put this into perspective is to realize that we do have the power to raise awareness and get people's attention. This doesn't mean we've won. Far from it. It just means that the big media companies and their allies in Congress know we're here, and they'll now have to counter that. Does anyone honestly think that Jack Valenti will call up his buddy Fritz Hollings and say, "Fritz, we honestly didn't know that people would get so riled up over this. Look, we don't want to irritate our customers, so let's just pull this bill." Hell no! If they're talking about anything, they're discussing ways to put a positive spin on this monstrosity.

    Now is not the time to get complacent. That will doom us more than anything else. Keep sending those letters, making those phone calls, and talking with friends and colleagues. If we can get their attention by doing what we've done so far, we can do much more if we take this to the next level.

  • Woohoo!!!!! by pmz (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:13PM
  • Lies... All Lies... by chuckw (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:13PM
  • Why make it work? by n0ano (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:15PM
  • Only YOU can prevent forest fires..... by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:17PM
  • It's only mostly dead, folks! by peacefinder (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:19PM
  • "CBDTPA" by Jucius Maximus (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:20PM
  • Support the CBDTPA!!! by dex22 (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:25PM
  • Prohibitionists won't stop ... by crovira (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:29PM
  • Dont let down your guard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Monkelectric (546685) <slashdotNO@SPAMmonkelectric.com> on Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:33PM (#3319906)
    Thats what they want! They *never ever* expected this bill to pass. This is merely mis-direction so they can get what they want when no one is looking. Now we have to start all over -- find out what new bill is evil -- get the word out again. This is classic strategic manuvering. *Don't fall for it*
  • I only want my free os by caca_phony (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:33PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • This proves my theory by famazza (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:39PM
  • What press? by Rev Snow (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:45PM
  • Hollings must go. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rev Snow (21340) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:52PM (#3319990)
    The only way a special interest group gets respect in Washington is to make a difference in elections. It's not enough to stop this bill. We must now defeat Hollings in his next election, making it clear that the SSSCA is the reason why. There need to be press stories in November 2004 about the important "geek lobby" that defeated Hollings, and how important it is that politicians consider their interests.

    That means become single-issue voters and supporters. Who here will pledge $2000 of hard money contributions to any candidate who opposes Hollings? Or the max you can afford? Cause that's what it will really take to change things. And it needs to be done even if that candidate has other positions you disagree with.

  • How does this work? by ilmarin (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:55PM
  • I did my part, did you? by Merconium (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:57PM
  • That's ONE for our side... by Edward Teach (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:01PM
  • by SomeoneYouDontKnow (267893) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:01PM (#3320039)

    According to this NEWS.COM article [com.com], Gateway is going to be voicing its opposition to the CBDTPA. The best part is that they're going to begin airing a national TV spot on the topic of downloading and burning music. Doesn't look like it's going to directly reference the bill, but people will doubtless see it, and it will prime them for exposure to information about what's going on. I'd recommend that everyone here watch for the ad and see if it can be used as a reference when writing letters to newspapers or your Congressional reps.

    Definitely a good thing here.

  • by jp93023 (84606) <jim AT jperry DOT net> on Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:03PM (#3320046) Homepage
    I think the DigitalConsumer.org movement is generally a good thing, but this:
    "For example, the group has called for a law that would specifically spell out consumers' "fair use" rights, such as the right to record TV shows for later viewing, or transfer a CD to a portable MP3 player."
    is the wrong approach. Asking for a law that enumerates specific rights leads to the those being the only rights. We should follow the pattern of the constitution and enumerate a specific, restrictive set of rights for content holders, then specifically state that all rights not enumerated for the copyright holders belong to the people.
  • Why don't the lightbulbs... by gnovos (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:12PM
  • Maybe Government Works When People Get Involved! by erroneus (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:27PM
  • Hollings Corrupted By Disney? by Aknaton (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:31PM
  • A Helpful Suggestion by Eugene O'Neil (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:40PM
  • Release: Copyright Protection Law (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Elias Israel (182882) <eli@promanage-inc.com> on Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:43PM (#3320469)

    NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
    2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
    Washington DC 20037

    World Wide Web: http://www.LP.org

    For release: April 10, 2002
    For additional information:
    George Getz, Press Secretary
    Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
    E-Mail: pressreleases@hq.LP.org

    New copyright protection bill would turn government into entertainment 'rent-a-cop'

    WASHINGTON, DC -- The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA), a bill that would supposedly reduce digital piracy, should be rejected by Congress because it would turn the government into a "rent-a-cop" for the entertainment industry, the Libertarian Party said today.

    "The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act will not only inconvenience consumers and throw roadblocks in the way of new technology, it will vastly expand the power of the government," warned the party's executive director, Steve Dasbach.

    "While the federal government may have a legitimate role in protecting copyrighted material, that role does not extend to acting as a technology rent-a-cop to protect the profits of huge entertainment corporations like Disney, Sony, and DreamWorks."

    Last week, Senator Ernest F. Hollings (D-SC) filed S-2048, the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act.

    The bill would make it a federal crime -- punishable by five years in jail and a $500,000 fine -- to sell software or hardware that does not contain shielding measures that make it impossible to play or copy protected materials like songs, movies, or TV shows.

    The bill's provisions would apply to computers, video-editing software, CD players, VCRs, MP3 players and software, DVD players, and televisions, among others. The copyright-protection technology would be determined either by manufacturers and entertainment companies, or mandated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

    The CBDTPA is allegedly designed to stop digital piracy, which has become an increasing problem now that everything from songs to movies are in digital form, and downloadable from the Internet.

    But the CBDTPA goes far beyond any reasonable role the government might have in protecting copyrighted works, said Dasbach.

    "According to the Constitution, the federal government has the power to 'promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive rights to their respective writings and discoveries,'" he noted. "In other words, Congress can grant exclusive copyrights, which entertainers can defend, as necessary, by filing copyright infringement lawsuits.

    "The CBDTPA, by contrast, gets the federal government involved in the production of everything from televisions to computers, and software programs to operating systems. And, instead of just targeting criminals who illegally steal copyrighted materials, it treats every consumer as a potential digital pirate -- while turning federal bureaucrats into the Digital Police."

    Further, said Dasbach, the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act would:

    • Inconvenience consumers who want to use copyrighted materials they legitimately purchased.

      "The bill would make it impossible for you to turn a CD you purchased into MP3 songs to play on your computer," he said. "It guts the traditional notion of 'fair use,' which allows consumers non-commercial reproduction rights."

    • Act as an expensive form of "corporate welfare."

      "Federally mandated copyright-protection technology will not only drive up the cost of computers, DVD players, and VCRs, it may force consumers to purchase multiple copies of movies and albums -- pouring billions of extra dollars into the pockets of wealthy conglomerates," he said.

    • Make "open-access" operating systems like Linux illegal. Linux's source code is freely available, making it impossible to guarantee the secrecy of the copy-protection scheme, as required by the CBDTPA.

      "The bill is a dream come true for Bill Gates, because it could make it illegal to own one of the most successful operating system competitors to Microsoft Windows," he said. "The result would be to stifle competition in the computer industry."

    In short, the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act is an overly broad, overly rigid, and overly intrusive response to the problem of digital piracy, said Dasbach.

    "Digital piracy is a real dilemma, and the entertainment industry has a real challenge ahead of it -- to figure out how to make a profit and protect artists in a digital age," he said. "But the solution is not to pass the CBDTPA, which would turn the federal government into the omnipresent technology police, and treat every consumer like a criminal."

  • Think about it... by manly_15 (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @08:15PM
  • COST OF ENFORCEMENT by IBitOBear (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @08:26PM
  • by Steve B (42864) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @08:51PM (#3320694) Homepage
    Technology firms did not want to testify in the hearing, did not offer input while the bill was being drafted, and have offered plenty of criticism but little helpful suggestions since, a Hollings aide said.

    Why, I offered several helpful suggestions in my letters to my senators:

    I suggested that protections for fair use rights be written into the bill (appending a copy of the Digital Consumer Bill of Rights [digitalconsumer.org] as a proposed model), and that the penalties for infringing those rights be made equivalent to those for copyright violation.

    I suggested that, to insure that the new standard did not unduly impair independent publishing, the requirements for the final standard would have to include a complete lack of patent, copyright, or trade secret encumbrances.

    I think I forgot to suggest that CPR teams be dispatched to watch Jack Valenti, Hilary Rosen, and Bill Gates before the new version of the bill was released for public comment. I can only hope that one of the staffers realized this necessity in time.

  • Regular Users!?!? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jackal! (88105) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @09:32PM (#3320848) Homepage

    "It seems like there's a groundswell of support from regular users."

    WTF? We're not taxpayers, we're not citizens, we're not people, we're 'users'!?!?! That's like one step from dropping all pretense and calling us 'consumers'. Even though this is good news, that one phrase sends shivers of terror down my spine.

  • Send him to an old folks home! by gnovos (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @09:44PM
  • Damn... by ruiner13 (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @10:18PM
  • piracy, yea right by Innomi (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @10:19PM
  • one. by BenTheDewpendent (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @10:26PM
  • by QuietRiot (16908) on Wednesday April 10 2002, @10:38PM (#3321039) Homepage Journal

    > I always have wondered about the actual effect that talking/writing to your representitives has had. It seems like, at least in this case, the decision against it was based almost entirely around citizen outrage. ... [petree:#3319491]

    This is a real demonstration of the power that large group of people, living in a democratic society, can actually impart on their government. We all know it doesn't happen that often. We've all seen scary bills come up - and pass, again and again. Just like that. Done. New law. More restrictions. Your life is now different. More words in the books to prevent what you can do - as a citizen - legally. Forced into submission. Why these new laws? Here's your answer: Lobbyists.

    We just sit there an let it happen. The lobbyists are paid to sweet-talk out lawmakers. Tell them it's 'A good idea for the people', 'it's the right thing to do' or that 'this will protect the good people; the god-fearing, law abiding, tax-paying citizens, from the scum of the earth - the good ones are the people you're working for sir.'

    These lawmakers listen to them - the lobbyists - BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES SPEAKING!!!

    People - if there's a law out there you don't like - do something people have been doing for hundreds of years. Do something very simple. Tell that person that makes the laws that you don't like what they are doing. Be honest with your lawmaker (in writing - handwritten) and tell them what you think. Just express your opinion. Takes 10 minutes (or longer - if you'd like). Get out a piece of paper and a pen. Blank page - but don't be scared. You can do this - even if you never have before.

    This is what our government is really about, remember? They are called "Representatives." Remember that word? You learned it in 4th grade - when Mrs. Crabapple told you about the various branches of government, and the checks and balances, and the lifecycle of something called a "bill." Ok think back to that. These people are representatives - that we elect - to us in the house of government. They represennt us - but they need to know how we feel!

    Forget the government you know of today. The one where things just happen and it feels like you have no control. These people are supposed to be representing you..... No - not the YOUr city, or the YOUr county, or YOUr voting district.... You as in YOU [insert your name here] - an individual. A person with thoughts and feelings, with bills to pay, with kids to take to soccer practice, with laws to abide by. You are the ones that matter. You are the ones that pay the bills - pay their salary! They better listen to you.

    >Now is not the time to get complacent. That will doom us more than anything else. Keep sending those letters, making those phone calls, and talking with friends and colleagues. If we can get their attention by doing what we've done so far, we can do much more if we take this to the next level.[SomeoneYouDontKnow:#3319793]

    Who makes these laws?

    Lobbyists make these laws and they think they are protecting you. Often they are. But more than often - they have NO IDEA ABOUT THE LAWS THEY ARE INTRODUCING. And who's the expert? - you. You're obviously concerned about it? Right?............. Well then.....<nudgeNudge> go ahead. Tell him. (or her) Do it in writing and encourage others to do the same!

    Ok - now. Remember that paper and pen you got out? Right. Now set them down in front of you - ok... Now write on the paper - in nice, neat letters: "Dear <insert your representative's name here>,"

    Good start. Now - tell him (or her - please rinse/repeat ther "her" thing throughout) which bill he has recently introduced that you will be refering to, why, or what parts of his decision you may support, OR would support his decision IF <insert modified clause here>, then tell him the things you don't like about it. Continue with how such a bill, if introduced, would change the way you live, would limit your freedoms, or would cause you undue stress or unfair setbacks. Plead with them to reconsider the bill in it's current state and to either drop it alltogether or modify certain clauses to cause you less distress or potential problems. What we all need to do is share our views with our representatives when we hear about a bill we don't want passed. I have alway thought that I wouldn't have much of an impact on my government decision-makers because I am only one person - one voice - on letter of angst. But obviously, as we've seen tonight, the common man can make a difference - IF HE SPEAKS LOUDLY ENOUGH. Raise a hussy. Tell them you don't like it! Be honest - it's your governement too!

    Heck - even if they end up passing the law - too much big money pressure - you can at least make them feel guilty about it. I know - the torture we put these guys through :) Just remember - they are supposed to be working for us - not JUST big money. Remind them of that. Give them your sob story. --AND DO IT IN HANDWRITING--

    Yes --DO IT IN HANDWRITING--

    Tell them you don't like their law. Tell them you know lots of other people in your comunity, or at work, or at PTA meetings, that feel the same way (if such a thing is true). Just be honest and put down what you'd like to say to them. Dont' be rude. Be civil and professional and express yourself in writing your feelings about their bill. (or about someone elses bill they will be voting on).

    If you've got somthing to say - fscking say it. Express your disapproval. Write your representatives. 10 minutes and a stamp. Take a night off of watching one TV show. (It's empowering to do something useful - for you and your country/county/state/whatever instead of watching advertisements and listening to laugh tracks).

    If you think that just one person can't have a big impact, try going to bed with a mosquito.

  • It ain't over yet... by nenya (Score:1) Thursday April 11 2002, @01:05AM
  • Someone use a cluestick by maroberts (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @01:56AM
  • not a victory of 'the people' by maxpublic (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @02:04AM
  • Disney has an excuse, but what is Hollings excuse? by 3seas (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @02:42AM
  • by Pig Hogger (10379) <pig@hogger.gmail@com> on Thursday April 11 2002, @07:18AM (#3322247) Homepage Journal
    "We haven't received one e-mail in support of the Hollings bill," said Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Mimi Devlin.
    Bullshit!
    Here is what I sent them:

    Gentlemen,

    I am a computer professionnal, being active in the field of software development and IT administration since 1979. Although I am not an American citizen, I would like to comment on the CBDPTA being studied by your committee.

    This innovative bill, by crippling the ability of the U.S. computer industry to freely introduce innovative technology, will tremenduously favourize the (rest of the) world computer industry. Imposing limits on computer systems that would be illegal in many countries is a sure way to insure that the rest of the world computer industry will finally catch-up and leave in the dust the U.S. computer industry.

    The other 95% of the world will be eternally grateful to the (comparatively) minuscule Hollywood movie industry for having the much bigger U.S. computer industry ground to a halt by having to spend a significant portion of their ressources just to comply with the CBDPTA.

    Most other industries (those who use computers) will also benefit, as their U.S. counterparts will be hindered by less performing computers that are hobbled both in cost and performance by their expensive content monitoring "features", thus making them less efficient than their unencumbered foreign counterparts.

    Another foreign industry that shall benefit will undoubtely the illegal drug industry, as it will be easier to ship illegal drugs to the United States as the U.S. Customs service will undoubtely be very busy searching for illegal computer contraband.

    Please do consider the passage of this Act, as the world's computer industry needs a reprieve from the very innovative U.S. computer industry.

    Thank-you.

  • So now what? by Zigg (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @07:23AM
  • A Law we really need. by coldtone (Score:1) Thursday April 11 2002, @09:56AM
  • If the CBDTPA passes... by prototype27 (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @05:24PM
    • [OT] Your .sig by Hektor_Troy (Score:2) Thursday April 11 2002, @12:54AM
  • Re:MPAA Leaked Memo: by dbrown (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:39PM
  • hahahaha by sulli (Score:2) Wednesday April 10 2002, @06:58PM
  • Gateway's playing off the CBDTPA in their ads by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:54PM
  • Re:CBDTPA Is just a test by borgheron (Score:1) Wednesday April 10 2002, @07:54PM
  • 20 replies beneath your current threshold.
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