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DVD/DeCSS: MPAA Wins In New York

Posted by michael on Thu Aug 17, 2000 01:26 PM
from the good-guys-finish-last dept.
Jim Tyre writes: "Judge Kaplan's ruling is out." The actual judgment is a separate document. Note that the judgment forbids Defendants and anyone acting in concert with them from posting or linking to the DeCSS code.Update: 08/17 07:57 PM by H :Taken from an earlier post: The ruling is availible online. The New York Times has a concise statement concering the case - essentially, the judge rejected the arguement that computer code counts as free speech, and therefore should be protected by the First Amendment. However, it should be noted that this ruling was *expected* by the 2600 folks, as Martin Garbus, one of the lawyers noted. (Garbus, it should be noted, has been before the Supreme Court /19/ times). This will mean that the Appeal will go higher, and that means that if/when the judgement is overturned, it will affect more than just NY, as this would have.

A quote from the conclusion:

VI. Conclusion

In the final analysis, the dispute between these parties is simply put if not necessarily simply resolved.

Plaintiffs have invested huge sums over the years in producing motion pictures in reliance upon a legal framework that, through the law of copyright, has ensured that they will have the exclusive right to copy and distribute those motion pictures for economic gain. They contend that the advent of new technology should not alter this long established structure.

Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located. Less radically, they have raised a legitimate concern about the possible impact on traditional fair use of access control measures in the digital era.

Each side is entitled to its views. In our society, however, clashes of competing interests like this are resolved by Congress. For now, at least, Congress has resolved this clash in the DMCA and in plaintiffs? favor. Given the peculiar characteristics of computer programs for circumventing encryption and other access control measures, the DMCA as applied to posting and linking here does not contravene the First Amendment. Accordingly, plaintiffs are entitled to appropriate injunctive and declaratory relief.

SO ORDERED.

Dated: August 17, 2000

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  • DMCA where did the law come from? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @12:35AM
  • Canada. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:07AM
  • Damned DVD technicality by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:19AM
  • This can be good by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:37AM
  • Judge does not know Macrovision by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:51AM
  • Re:Let us consult the Constitution.... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:45AM
  • Re:"Defendants are anarchists, therefore..." by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:47AM
  • Maybe another way.... by AndyS (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:33AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by echo (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:54AM
  • 2600, an easy target for FUD. by DunbarTheInept (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:47AM
  • Not true. by bkosse (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:52PM
  • The judge very definately did have a choice by bkosse (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:01AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Christopher Craig (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:58AM
  • Decision and Livid Mirror by Brian Ristuccia (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:17AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:01AM
  • The counter point that got missed. by Harik (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:40PM
  • DeCSS = Presidential Assasination?!? by ink (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:03AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by leoc (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:39AM
  • I think the judge is incorrect - by stevew (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by stevew (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:10AM
  • yay by arielb (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:21AM
  • Re:Whatever.... by myconid (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:23AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Chris Burke (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:17AM
  • Re:Agreed. by Ian Schmidt (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:32AM
  • Bernstein Case by craw (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:10AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by jimhill (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:23AM
  • 1st Amendment musing by BrotherPope (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:05AM
  • Re:Unpersuasive? by BrotherPope (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:26PM
  • An empty win?? by LordDartan (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM
  • Doesn't this contradict previous laws? by Freshman (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:21PM
  • Re:Appeal coming on line by benedict (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM
  • Re:You knew there would be an appeal. by Zarn (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:19AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Keel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:48AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Keel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:54AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Keel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:56AM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by finkployd (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:53AM
  • The Judge has left an open hole. by HunterD (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:17AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by mengel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:31AM
  • Re:Tests for the linking law by ethereal (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @04:22AM
  • Re:Judges Thinking Regarding Linking by ethereal (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:19AM
  • Re:You knew there would be an appeal. by ethereal (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:59AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by CE@UIC (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:55AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Jeremi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:10AM
  • Re:But did he? by Sloppy (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:51AM
  • Re:But did he? by Sloppy (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:34AM
  • The real issue here is freedom by RocketScientist (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:16AM
  • Re:World != USA by cs (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:00PM
  • OT: *Info* wants to be free? Re:Real Impartial by Cool Hand Luke (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:31AM
  • Re:WHAT?! by Cool Hand Luke (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:16AM
  • Re:WHAT?! by Cool Hand Luke (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:39AM
  • Re:interesting times by brandon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:08AM
  • Re:Let us consult the Constitution.... by PieceMaker (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:18AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by ||Deech|| (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:09AM
  • Two options: by Anonymous Freak (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:08AM
  • Re:interesting times by Frog (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:22AM
  • Re:interesting times by Frog (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:25AM
  • DeCSS source by kyhwana (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:25PM
  • The AP? Truth? You've gotta be kidding me. by eddy (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:33PM
  • court not doing its job by dawg (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:00AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by attobyte (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:03PM
  • As long as the DMCA is "constitutional" by acomj (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:16AM
  • Re:Fascinating! by ethomas8 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM
  • Re:now that DeCSS has been shot down... by ttyRazor (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:52AM
  • Re:prepare for battle by Can (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:38AM
  • Re:You knew there would be an appeal. by Ronin75 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:08AM
  • What's Everyone So Worried About? by cjkarr (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:12AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Yogger (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by ce25254 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:19AM
  • Re:WHAT?! by rmull (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:22AM
  • (OT) To the authour of post #45 by TBHiX (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:05AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:54PM
  • Re:prepare for battle by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:09AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:50AM
  • Re:This worries me. by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:51AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:53AM
  • Re:bahahahahahaha! by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:01AM
  • Hemp by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:12AM
  • bleh by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:13AM
  • Viruses by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:33AM
  • dude, can you read? by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:36AM
  • Re:What I don't get... by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:26AM
  • Re:Why didn't they by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:31AM
  • What the hell? by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:33AM
  • Re:A point to consider by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:37PM
  • Re:bahahahahahaha! by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:45PM
  • Re:bahahahahahaha! by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:48PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by delmoi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:50PM
  • Free Speech rights of Code by spRed (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:47AM
  • Re:argh! by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:26PM
  • Re:Good thing that DeCSS lost this battle by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:28PM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:36PM
  • Re:Wrong. by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:41PM
  • Re:Congress? by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:50PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:28AM
  • Re:Unpersuasive? by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:56PM
  • Re:Unpersuasive? by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:10PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:46AM
  • Re:Comments? by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:55AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by alkali (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:01PM
  • so this comment will be outlawed? by nchip (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:04AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by egon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:26AM
  • Re:This is okay, we still have round 2... by jocknerd (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:35AM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by LenE (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:08AM
  • A Nit to Pick about the Judges Comments by _J_ (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:01AM
  • Telepath(et)ic Judge by DarkMan (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:37AM
  • What bothers me the most... by TonyXL (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:The constitution has little direct weight by / (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:56AM
  • Wrong by / (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:15PM
  • Fact checking: by Raetsel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:53AM
  • RE: About those tacos... by Raetsel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:30AM
  • Re:World != USA by smutt (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:44AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by smutt (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:52AM
  • Re:DMC-what? by Blindman (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:19AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Zurk (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:55PM
  • Re:When will they realize... by Greg@RageNet (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:13AM
  • Re:Has anyone even read the ruling? by Greg@RageNet (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re:interesting times by MadAhab (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:20AM
  • Re:The constitution has little direct weight by slashdot-me (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:40PM
  • Re:Fair use by jhoffmann (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:33AM
  • Has anyone even read the ruling? by Anopheles (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:24AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Mith (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re:What's Everyone So Worried About? by drivers (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:10AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by BubbaFett (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:02AM
  • Does this mean... by ronfar (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:47AM
  • without charge? by klund (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:13AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by Enoch Root (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:38AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by bnenning (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:24AM
  • Re:Wow... talk about missing the point by Hnice (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:43AM
  • Pot... Kettle... Black!!! by SvnLyrBrto (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:05PM
  • Re:Real Impartial by nmx (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:27AM
  • Re:They didn't make their case well. by nmx (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:35AM
  • Possible responses by Ground0 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:02AM
  • Re:I think they are taking the wrong tack. by sconeu (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:42PM
  • Going to the Supremes? by sconeu (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:15PM
  • OT Note: Not necessary to be Christian by sumana (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:01AM
  • How to track down all the Tshirt owners & mirrors? by sumana (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:07AM
  • Re:Wow... talk about missing the point by deblau (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:59AM
  • Not surprising, but disturbing nonetheless by deblau (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:47AM
  • squares by lizrd (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:30AM
  • Re:Comments? by po_boy (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:12AM
  • Re:Comments? by po_boy (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:31AM
  • What would have happened if.... by NullProg (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:02PM
  • Time to move by Eponymous, Showered (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:18AM
  • Re:Yes, they do... by bdavenport (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @03:56AM
  • Re:Why PDF Format? by bdavenport (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:38AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by chewbca (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:43AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by Pfhreakaz0id (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:18AM
  • Told You So by Drestin (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:55AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Schmecky (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:37PM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by dricher (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:32PM
  • Re:The judge has a point by Madman (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:59AM
  • The judge has a point by Madman (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Borealis (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:51AM
  • Tests for the linking law by mrogers (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @01:58AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by nublord (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:46AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by user (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @06:56AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by user (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:41PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by user (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:44PM
  • Problem.... by rakslice (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:30PM
  • Re:Problem.... by rakslice (Score:1) Wednesday August 23 2000, @07:24AM
  • Re:Whatever.... by Kwikymart (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:41AM
  • Whatever.... by Kwikymart (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:37AM
  • Re:What's the next step, appeal, emigrate? by Kwikymart (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by lunatik17 (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @10:52AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by lunatik17 (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @10:59AM
  • Re:Fact checking: by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:16PM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:33PM
  • Re:What's the next step, appeal, emigrate? by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:36PM
  • Re:Good thing that DeCSS lost this battle by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:23PM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @07:38PM
  • Re:Translation by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:59PM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:06PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @07:55PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:54AM
  • Re:Ontopic if you read the whole damn thing by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:45PM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:02PM
  • Re:World != USA by lunatik17 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:09PM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by lunatik17 (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @09:19PM
  • Re:The heart of the matter by Arker (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @07:28PM
  • Offenders should be punished. by Andrew Dvorak (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:24AM
  • Re:Exact Details on legal/illegal linking: by tve (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:14PM
  • Re:Circumvent by FunkyChild (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:03PM
  • Rebel with a shirt by StandingBear (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:42AM
  • Give the man some slack... by Ravagin (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:13AM
  • Not panic time -- yet by mpav (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:19PM
  • If this is what we are dealing with ... by DrFalkyn (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:11AM
  • Monopolies Evil? by Mutok (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:53AM
  • But you can buy unencrypted DVD's by epcraig (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:37PM
  • Re:So who constitutes "society"? by ignorant_newbie (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:59PM
  • got DeCSS? by JbirdUAH (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:45AM
  • Ruling is Unconstitutional by irksome (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:13AM
  • Re:He's right, in a way by cei (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:46AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by BigJack (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:12AM
  • Re:interesting times by Rand Race (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:43AM
  • Re:Comments/condemnation by Rakarra (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:33PM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by Rakarra (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @11:21AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Rakarra (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @01:37PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Rakarra (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @08:23AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Rakarra (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @12:10PM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Rakarra (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @12:18PM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Rakarra (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @12:21PM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Rakarra (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @01:10PM
  • Re:Pot... Kettle... Black!!! by Rakarra (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @05:59PM
  • Kaplan was just doing what he was paid to do. by Woney (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:39AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Skuld (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:14AM
  • Re:Has anyone even read the ruling? by brain159 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:Wow... talk about missing the point by Artagel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:05AM
  • Re:Let us consult the Constitution.... by Artagel (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:09AM
  • Re:Comments? by tjwhaynes (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:28AM
  • For those of use with no PDF viewer... by DarthVdr (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:55AM
  • Ramifications for software warranties? by the_hose (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:29AM
  • Re:Circumvent by mr3038 (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @12:50PM
  • Re:That's the UCITA, not the DMCA by Kaiwen (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @04:07AM
  • DMC-what? by Kaiwen (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:55AM
  • Re:A point to consider by SuiteSisterMary (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:48PM
  • Re:A point to consider by SuiteSisterMary (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:23AM
  • Re:Whatever.... by RiscTaker (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:53PM
  • Re:Whatever.... by RiscTaker (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:44AM
  • the scope of the case by neoThoth (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:17AM
  • The Conclusion by WBDinnigan (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:47AM
  • prepare for battle by whatsthislifefor (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:35AM
  • now that DeCSS has been shot down... by hansonc (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:40AM
  • The constitution has little direct weight by ccoakley (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:32AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by ahknight (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:57PM
  • In other news... by kill -9 $$ (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:18AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by revengance (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:54PM
  • it doesn't "play" a goddam thing by ArchieBunker (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:59AM
  • Re:got DeCSS? by gnarly (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:11AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by luckykaa (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:18AM
  • Translation by luckykaa (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:24AM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by luckykaa (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:28AM
  • Re:Kaplan sneers by greysky (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:02AM
  • Re:The ruling, now readable in lynx! by mikeee (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:33AM
  • I dunno... by stungod (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:31AM
  • Re:Circumvent by Irritant (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:15PM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by Mike_K (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:38AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by John Napkintosh (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:47AM
  • Re:What the hell? by avandesande (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @03:22AM
  • Information Wants to be Free by avandesande (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:23AM
  • Re:Exact Details on legal/illegal linking: by danme (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @01:12AM
  • Linking to NASA? by danme (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:27AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Stary (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:23AM
  • Re:Why PDF Format? by Umrick (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:16AM
  • Congress? by Ashé Pattern (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by clare-ents (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:22PM
  • Re:"Defendants are anarchists, therefore..." by Ig0r (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:57PM
  • Re:For those of use with no PDF viewer... by _xeno_ (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:20AM
  • "Without charge"?!?!? by AntiNorm (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:38AM
  • MPAA should sue Microsoft!! by PolyDwarf (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:50PM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by aardvarkjoe (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:34AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by MaxGrant (Score:1) Wednesday August 23 2000, @12:09PM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Spider-X (Score:1) Wednesday August 23 2000, @04:15AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Spider-X (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:12AM
  • In USA yes, but in Europe NO! by Adam Bertil (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:21AM
  • What I don't get... by tralfamador (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:17AM
  • When will they realize... by Xrkun (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:47AM
  • argh! by aurikan (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:36AM
  • I can't believe these statements he made... by cthulhubob (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:17AM
  • Boycott the MPAA by brewking (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:55PM
  • Telephone effect Re:OT: *Info* wants to be free? by AndyChrist (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:07AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by AndyChrist (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:37AM
  • They just don't understand by xercist (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:38AM
  • www.copyleft.net is still open for business :) by wdavies (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:17PM
  • Re:Why PDF Format? by TheSims (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:19AM
  • Re:Whatever.... by Captain Rotundo (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:56AM
  • Never before... by Corbin Dallas (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:48AM
  • The DMCA and "Computer Readable" by Nic-o-demus (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:48PM
  • New definition of gigabyte? by Chmrr (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:20AM
  • World != USA by nikhilwiz (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:38AM
  • A sad day, but not everything's lost... by uriyan (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:39AM
  • Good thing that DeCSS lost this battle by eean (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:32AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by danheskett (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:18PM
  • linux a windows alternative? by ducktape (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:29AM
  • DeCSS by .sig (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:39AM
  • So Lou Shun? by SomePoorSchmuck (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:06PM
  • Hammers by Desdinova77 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:37AM
  • Why didn't they by mbourgon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:21AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Karmageddon (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @03:28AM
  • Computer nerds: meet legal nerds by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:35AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:42AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:46AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:24PM
  • Re:Computer nerds: meet legal nerds by Karmageddon (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:14PM
  • Bad Defendants by daemones (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:05AM
  • How about this one! by Soch (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:26PM
  • Re:The heart of the matter by Zleeper (Score:1) Saturday August 19 2000, @11:19AM
  • Bizarre Reasoning by Prong (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:56AM
  • So? by TrumpetPower! (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:11AM
  • Re:Copyleft shirts by pjpII (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:08PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by current93 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:52AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by guibaby (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:22AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Luminous (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:25AM
  • Re:Monopolies Evil? by Luminous (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:09PM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by sulli (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:04AM
  • Re:Copyleft shirts by sulli (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM
  • Easy to prove Judge bias by sulli (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:44AM
  • Eh? by scribblej (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @06:10AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Mtgman (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:13AM
  • Yelling Fire in a Theater by umeboshi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:44AM
  • Re:Yelling Fire in a Theater--oops by umeboshi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:11PM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by Not2Bryt64 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:56AM
  • Re:Pot... Kettle... Black!!! by linzeal (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @07:29AM
  • Re:OT: Did anyone file charges w/the video situati by linzeal (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @07:36AM
  • Ontopic if you read the whole damn thing by linzeal (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:27AM
  • Fear the Geek by disenfranchised (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:Appeal coming on line by Shadow1 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:49AM
  • DeCSS by inKubus (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:58AM
  • How this could apply 180 degrees by Quila (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @12:56AM
  • Why doesn't someone sue to get CSS ruled illegal? by metamatic (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @04:49AM
  • Re:He's right, in a way by rob_one_nyc (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:Has anyone even read the ruling? by Kryffpi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:06AM
  • The Criminalization of Tools by zentec (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:34AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by stubob (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:23AM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by Rogue Jedi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:35PM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by Rogue Jedi (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:46PM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by Rogue Jedi (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @02:47AM
  • Re:mirror in case Courtweb gets /.'ed by Quietust (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @03:46AM
  • A point to consider by Junnonen (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:54AM
  • Re:A point to consider by Junnonen (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:59AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Ketzer (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @05:57AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Ketzer (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @08:50AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Ketzer (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Ketzer (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @05:10AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Ketzer (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @05:19AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Ketzer (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @05:26AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Ketzer (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @08:36AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Ketzer (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @08:46AM
  • Re:How odd that a judge would uphold the law by Ketzer (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:42AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Ketzer (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:33AM
  • Bought and Sold by CIHMaster (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:34AM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by CIHMaster (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:01AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by caver (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:36AM
  • Bank Vault Combo Info is Illegal? by sleeeper (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:10AM
  • Only the first round. by swngnmonk (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:44AM
  • Re:I think the judge is incorrect - by Br00se (Score:1) Wednesday August 23 2000, @04:05PM
  • The MPAA should sue themselves by apm (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:21AM
  • Re:Copyleft shirts by smarner (Score:1) Monday August 21 2000, @07:32AM
  • Re:Agreed. by MetaPhyzx (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:07AM
  • Fair use by cprael (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:53AM
  • Goodbye Open Source DVD Players by DreamingReal (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM
  • Re:Ruling is Unconstitutional by elomire (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:47AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by Expecting Rain (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:04AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by corporate zombie (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:08PM
  • Anyone Notice...? by ravenmystic (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @06:02AM
  • What's the next step, appeal, emigrate? by Hairy_Potter (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:35AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by nickco3 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:10PM
  • What else with this affect? by buff_pilot (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:45AM
  • Everyone copyright themselves! by cosmosis (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:18PM
  • Appeal coming on line by maninblackhat (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:40AM
  • DeCSS Atrocity by resistant (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:19PM
  • Copyleft shirts by ThymePuns (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:37AM
  • Re:Exact Details on legal/illegal linking: by Maudib (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:08AM
  • Re:Does this mean... by bhosp (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:07AM
  • USA (land of free ?!) != World by endercz (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:22AM
  • DMCA apparently invalidates parts of GPL by jctribble (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:14AM
  • Re:bahahahahahaha! by ifconfig promisc (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:21PM
  • Re:Computer nerds: meet legal nerds by puck71 (Score:1) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:49PM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by DagSverre (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @01:54AM
  • Re:What's the next step, appeal, emigrate? by DagSverre (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @01:58AM
  • You are right! by DagSverre (Score:1) Friday August 18 2000, @02:11AM
  • it seems some of you have left something out... by xsteinberger (Score:1) Sunday August 20 2000, @06:20PM
  • Re:Let us consult the Constitution.... by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:27PM
  • Re:Has anyone even read the ruling? by bluGill (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:35AM
  • The Big Lie by adamsc (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:54PM
  • Re:Wrong. by Masem (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:48AM
  • Judge's virus analogy fundamentally flawed by David Price (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:43AM
  • Wrong. by bkosse (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:05AM
  • Code as Speech addressed on page 54 by ry4an (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:49AM
  • Not quite so. by Svartalf (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:15AM
  • Somewhat. by Svartalf (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:19AM
  • OT: Did anyone file charges w/the video situation? by Svartalf (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:52AM
  • Re:Problem.... by PhilHibbs (Score:2) Thursday August 24 2000, @08:53AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by PhilHibbs (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:38AM
  • The ruling, now readable in lynx! by David E. Smith (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:16AM
  • Re:The exception that confirms the rule by Nicolas MONNET (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @03:17AM
  • The exception that confirms the rule by Nicolas MONNET (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:38AM
  • Re:The exception that confirms the rule by Nicolas MONNET (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:39AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by MenTaLguY (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:59AM
  • This worries me. by MenTaLguY (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM
  • Ever read 2600? by Booker (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:29PM
  • Agreed. by Ian Schmidt (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:56AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by SimonK (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @03:09AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by SimonK (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @05:10AM
  • Unpersuasive? by BrotherPope (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:27AM
  • Chilling the Press by BrotherPope (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:43AM
  • Re:Kaplan invents new clause in DMCA by Pig Hogger (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @07:09PM
  • T-Shirt Images? by dschuetz (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:48AM
  • Re:Congress? by jms (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:03AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by jms (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:59AM
  • mirror in case Courtweb gets /.'ed by Zarn (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:35AM
  • Yes, exactly. by FallLine (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @05:01PM
  • Re:Real Impartial by finkployd (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:11AM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by finkployd (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:18AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Lord Kano (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:14AM
  • Re:Let us consult the Constitution.... by mjackso1 (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:04AM
  • Re:Fascinating! by Dredd13 (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:58AM
  • Re:Problem.... by Sloppy (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @04:53AM
  • Circumvent by Sloppy (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:26PM
  • Re:But did he? by Sloppy (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:31AM
  • Re:What's the next step, appeal, emigrate? by redhog (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:28AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Mindwarp (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @10:56AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Mindwarp (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Mindwarp (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:32AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Mindwarp (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:12AM
  • Re:They didn't make their case well. by Mindwarp (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:18AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Mindwarp (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:47AM
  • Re:The heart of the matter by Mindwarp (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @12:06PM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Skapare (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @04:49AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Skapare (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @04:53AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Skapare (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @04:54AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Skapare (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @04:56AM
  • Re:Before you get up in arms... by Skapare (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @05:02AM
  • Important Message !!! by GuNgA-DiN (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:57PM
  • Oh no!! by GOD_ALMIGHTY (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:13AM
  • Re:I think they are taking the wrong tack. by Otto (Score:2) Monday August 21 2000, @07:00AM
  • I think they are taking the wrong tack. by Otto (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:12AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by rebrane (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:08AM
  • Anyone though of making the ruling into "a" DeCSS? by eddy (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:36PM
  • Don't forget the other DeCSS by Evro (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:39PM
  • Re:Absolutely incorrect. by King Babar (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @04:55PM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Rombuu (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:40AM
  • bahahahahahaha! by FascDot Killed My Pr (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:42AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by delmoi (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:I think they are taking the wrong tack. by delmoi (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:43PM
  • Re:interesting times by spRed (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:50AM
  • Re:How odd that a judge would uphold the law by adimarco (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:17AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by adimarco (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:43AM
  • Re:OT Note: Not necessary to be Christian by generic-man (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:42AM
  • "Adherents of a movement" by cje (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:18AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by Pont (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @07:17PM
  • Nit-picking not a solution by jingfired (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:58PM
  • Getting our Collective Asses Kicked by EarthQuaker (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:41AM
  • Re:argh! by Steve B (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:59AM
  • Re:Unconstitutional Laws should be punishable by Steve B (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:21AM
  • I'll have to quote Heinlien by Chandon Seldon (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @02:53PM
  • WHAT?! by cr0sh (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:04AM
  • Yes, they do... by cr0sh (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:08AM
  • Well... by cr0sh (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:51AM
  • Okay, now I've done it! by cr0sh (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:31AM
  • Code in and of itself is NOT malicious... by cr0sh (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:32AM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by Mr. Slippery (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:15AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Hard_Code (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @05:28AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by Hard_Code (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:This is okay, we still have round 2... by Hard_Code (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @05:36AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Hard_Code (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:20AM
  • Re:Wow... talk about missing the point by Hard_Code (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM
  • Re:This is okay, we still have round 2... by Hard_Code (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:14AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by Hard_Code (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:49AM
  • He's right, in a way by kaphka (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:55AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by kaphka (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:21PM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by 1010011010 (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:11AM
  • The Law by underwhelm (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:53AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Myddrin (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:48AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by Myddrin (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:50AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by jovlinger (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:20AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by jovlinger (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:28AM
  • Judges Thinking Regarding Linking by Cy Guy (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:42AM
  • Re:This is okay, we still have round 2... by The Queen (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:37AM
  • Re:Strong Language - Posting DeCSS as Assassinatio by Enoch Root (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:49AM
  • Re:WHAT?! by Enoch Root (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:53AM
  • Why PDF Format? by stefanlasiewski (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:07AM
  • Re:Copyleft T-Shirts by B-Rad (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:59AM
  • Comments? by deblau (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:32AM
  • Ideas vs Code by _Logic_ (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @03:54PM
  • This is just the first step. by scumdamn (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:40AM
  • This case isn't over yet by emufreak (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:44AM
  • Unconstitutional Laws should be punishable by kevin805 (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:57AM
  • Slashdot is linking to the DeCSS source by mrogers (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @02:49AM
  • The right defence, the wrong defendance by Money__ (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:36AM
  • Yahoo gets it wrong by Money__ (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:00AM
  • They didn't make their case well. by Money__ (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:38AM
  • Re:The judge has a point by mOdQuArK! (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:19PM
  • Re:Real Impartial by mOdQuArK! (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:49AM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by mOdQuArK! (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:59AM
  • The heart of the matter by Arker (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @07:04AM
  • phew by matticus (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:52AM
  • That's the UCITA, not the DMCA by MattW (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:09AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by MattW (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re:bahahahahahaha! by jaed (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @06:23PM
  • hmmmm by cybercuzco (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM
  • Re:phew by cybercuzco (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:15AM
  • Re:Comments? by KittenGun (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:35AM
  • Media Gets It Wrong Again :-( by Trinition (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:02AM
  • Kaplan is a backwards wimp! by Trinition (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:18AM
  • Bias by Trinition (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:19AM
  • Re:No. by gabe7319 (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:58AM
  • Code Can Destroy Society - Hackers Tell All by blanu (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:43AM
  • Re:No, you americans are bought and sold. by haus (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:26AM
  • Re:Real Impartial by luckykaa (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:21AM
  • Re:Circumvent by NaughtyEddie (Score:2) Friday August 18 2000, @09:44AM
  • How odd that a judge would uphold the law by NaughtyEddie (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:04AM
  • Re:But did he? by NaughtyEddie (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:49AM
  • Re:Circumvent by NaughtyEddie (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @12:56PM
  • Re:How odd that a judge would uphold the law by NaughtyEddie (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:40AM
  • Re:But did he? by NaughtyEddie (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @11:35AM
  • Re:Circumvent by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @01:47PM
  • Re:Real Impartial by Misch (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:14AM
  • judge says: "code is not protected" by Miriku chan (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:44AM
  • Re:Computer nerds: meet legal nerds by streetlawyer (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:41PM
  • What if lawyers had to write in Basic English? by satch89450 (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @07:55PM
  • Disappointing, yes... by Diablerie (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:37AM
  • So who constitutes "society"? by Vuarnet (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:48AM
  • Does this surprise anyone? by vertical-limit (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @08:40AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Ketzer (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:22AM
  • Re:Too bad we didn't get a rational judgement by Ketzer (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:23AM
  • Re:Does this surprise anyone? by apm (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @10:19AM
  • Re:Computer nerds: meet legal nerds by touretzky (Score:2) Thursday August 17 2000, @09:22PM
  • Kaplan sneers (Score:3)

    by Jeremy Erwin (2054) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:40AM (#848558) Journal
    "Mr. Johansen is a very
    talented young man and a member of a well known hacker group who viewed "cracking" CSS as an
    end it itself and a means of demonstrating his talent and who fully expected that the use of DeCSS
    would not be confined to Linux machines. Hence, the Court finds that Mr. Johansen and the others
    who actually did develop DeCSS did not do so solely for the purpose of making a Linux DVD player
    if, indeed, developing a Linux-based DVD player was among their purposes.
    Accordingly, the reverse engineering exception to the DMCA has no application here."

    I wonder what the application to LiVid will be.
  • Re:bahahahahahaha! (Score:3)

    by pergamon (4359) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:40AM (#848559) Homepage
    exactly.

    it is already possible to copy the media bit for bit and write another copy of DVD to play in any normal DVD player (i don't keep up with DVD writable stuff, but if that capability isn't already there, it will be). all that the encryption protects against is:

    a) playing the media with DVD equipment/software that is licensed and has a decryption key.

    b) getting perfect copies of the video contained on the DVD (most DVD players have digital out, so we could get that anyway -- granted, in some cases the precision/bitrate coming out the digital outs is not as good as is actually stored on the DVD). right now, we can *still* get pretty good copies
    of the video just from SVideo capturing or, if such a way exists, capturing from the component outs of any higher-end DVD player.

    SO. the encryption does *nothing* to limit/restrict/hinder copying of the DVD movies themselves. they can put all the encryption they want on it, joe blow pirater can still rip the DVD and put it on a website for others to download and burn their own copies. about all that it prevents is repackaging the video/audio, or using perfect copies of the video in some other context other than the movie. how much could that matter in comparison to the DVD sales which is not impacted by the encryption?

    so that doesn't seem like a viable reason for them to make all this up (am i missing something on that angle??).

    so, and i'm certainly not the first to point this out, it seems that all they're protecting is the DVD player makers.
  • Re:Real Impartial (Score:3)

    by Zagadka (6641) <zagadka AT xenomachina DOT com> on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:58AM (#848560) Homepage
    Even a foolish idiot wouldn't make such a spurious claim.

    That's essentially the claim that most of the "information wants to be free" crowd uses though. They say it's mathematically/physically impossible to prevent people from copying the data, so there shouldn't be laws against it. In other words, "information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to [get it]". Yeah, they probably wouldn't use the term "break into" (like thge ruling), but rather somethiung that means the same thing but sounds more benign...

    Now before I get flamed, I should point out that I don't agree with the ruling. (oh, and IANAL) I think the DMCA goes way too far. I think that copyright protection doesn't need legal protection. Copyright alone should be enough. If people use DeCSS to illegally copy DVD's, then go after them. People using DeCSS for fair use aren't doing anything wrong. So in other words, DMCA is unnecessary, and makes things illegal that shouldn't be.

    Unfortunately, because of the boneheaded way American law works, once a law is passed, you pretty well can't get rid of it unless you can prove that it's "unconstitutional", and likewise, you can't create laws that conflict with the constitutional dogma...

    Let the flaming begin!
  • by jetson123 (13128) on Thursday August 17 2000, @10:58AM (#848561)
    You are putting up a strawman. Reality is that copyright legislations has strongly restricted access and use of information since the 19th century, and that at the end of the 20th century, technology is being used to make a mockery of even the limited fair use provisions copyright law still had left.

    People in a democratic society need to be able to exchange information. A vibrant culture needs artists that can build on each other's work and that can reuse cultural icons (as we know from several hundred years of experience with the arts and culture in Europe). A society and culture in which every bit of information and every cultural icon is owned in perpetuity by corporations with specific financial interests and concerns about their "brand image" is a dead end.

    It is this tradeoff that is at the core: should we put corporate profits over the interests of our society? Or should we be conservative and return to the roots of copyright law: to fair use provisions that allows individuals to use content, build on each other's ideas, and reproduce content for scientific and analytical purposes, and to limited (20-30 years) protection?

    To me, the answer is pretty clear. Kaplan is right that this needs to be done by the legislative branch, not by the judicial branch of government, but without a serious political finance refort, that is unlikely.

  • by ethereal (13958) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:49AM (#848562) Journal

    It looks like this judge is ruling merely on the merits of the DMCA as passed by Congress, rather than considering the larger question of whether the law is constitutional. Perhaps at this level of the legal system the judiciary is unwilling (or unable, IANACS (constitutional scholar)) to overturn a federal law as unconstitutional. I think it was pretty clear on the basis of the past few months activities that this case would go against the defendants.

    The DMCA itself is bad enough, but the upholding of an injunction against the defendants linking to freely available information (well, at least until the hosting sites are also sued) is really troubling. I hope that facet of the case is an important part of the appeal as well; otherwise the New York Times and other major news venues will have to watch what they link to. If linking to a site with controversial content is prohibited, how about linking to a site that does the linking? For that matter, how about linking to AltaVista?

    This ruling represents an unconscionable attack on the underpinnings of the Internet. The powers-that-be have won the first battle to halt the changes that are coming to the world they own; I hope that the EFF, Mr. Garbus, and other people of good will are able to win the war for freedom of information and the right to free speech online, even if it does hurt someone's bottom line.

    </soapbox>

  • by drenehtsral (29789) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:34AM (#848563) Homepage
    This is to be expected, infact from what i've read, the EFF and company were even counting on this. This sets the stage for a constitutional challenge, which will set precedent on a national level.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do i play one on television =:-0
  • by Pont (33956) on Thursday August 17 2000, @07:04PM (#848564)
    Am I breaking the law if I read out load the DeCSS code?

    If DeCSS was pseudo-code, would it be protected by the first ammendmant? What if it were written instructions?

    If I rename decss.c to decss.bmp (which would probably look like noise), print it, and frame it, is it art? If I print it large enough, a scanner and the right software could compile it directly off the bitmap (just change the lexical analyzer to recognize a series of dots instead of a byte corresponding to an ASCII value).

    Basically, I'm saying that source code should obviously be protected free speach. The instructions for making a bomb (including measurements, chemical mixing, and all) have already been established as protected free speech. So obviously, an english step-by-step instructional essay on how to break CSS would be protected free speach. Source code is just a form of shorthand for writing a limited set of instructions that a compiler can then translate into code a computer can understand. The DMCA is saying we cannot shout, "the emperor has no clothes."

    *idea*: Write a perl script that translates C code into English that can always be perfectly re-translated back to C code. Maybe run that through a speach synthesizer or read it. Let's see the courts say that isn't speach.
  • Re:Real Impartial (Score:3)

    by MadAhab (40080) <slasher@ahaWELTYb.com minus author> on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:29AM (#848565) Homepage Journal
    Was it in reality a big deal, or actually bias his views? No.

    Do lawyers and judges routinely remove themselves from cases to avoid even the mere appearance of impropriety? Yes. Should this judge have? Yes.

    Does he give the appearance in general of being biased against the defendants for ideological reasons? Yes. Does he give the appearance of being personally biased against the defense team? Yes.

    Kaplan's behavior will be a liability to the plaintiffs in appeal for plenty of good reasons, even if his former law firm's role in advising Time Warner on issues germane to the case isn't itself the best reason.

    Boss of nothin. Big deal.
    Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.

  • Re:Real Impartial (Score:3)

    by Myddrin (54596) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:41AM (#848566) Homepage
    It's pretty clear that the judge from the begining has seen the programmers as a bunch of punk kids. The legal treatment of those involved has been amazingly shoddy. I could see the judge being disbarred for this, he oversaw the trial even though he'd been a consultant with the MPAA just a few years ago.... Yeah, they give him a large sum of money and he's supposed to be un-biased???

    It's appeal time.
  • Re:Real Impartial (Score:3)

    by Nehemiah S. (69069) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:06AM (#848567)
    Unfortunately, because of the boneheaded way American law works, once a law is passed, you pretty well can't get rid of it unless you can prove that it's "unconstitutional", and likewise, you can't create laws that conflict with the constitutional dogma

    It's pretty easy to get rid of a law once it's been passed. You just bury a rider 500 lines deep in a budget bill that says "The DMCA is hereby repealed", get both houses to sign off on it, and start watching movies on your platform of choice.

    IANAL BIRA LOS (I am not a lawyer (but I read a lot of Slashdot)).
  • by Ryu2 (89645) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:40AM (#848568) Homepage Journal
    Remeber this: It's the judge's purpose, and only purpose here, to decide whether or not DeCSS runs contrary to existing law (the DMCA). In light of this, he did his job perfectly, with his decision.

    It is NOT his purpose to decide whether that existing law is bad or not, and his own views regarding the law itself should not be relevant to the task at hand. So, protest the law, not the judge.

  • by Rand Race (110288) on Thursday August 17 2000, @10:17AM (#848569) Homepage
    I found that section telling as well. Funny that he used examples that were so horribly flawed. If DeCSS is really like 'assaination of a political figure', then by all means DeCSS code should be banned just like guns are. And if DeCSS is like viruses that can 'disable systems upon which the nation depends' then yes, DeCSS should be banned just like VisualBasic is.

    Of course personal responsibility, the basis of a free society, takes a distant back seat to corporate greed these days.

  • Fascinating! (Score:3)

    by YU Nicks NE Way (129084) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:42AM (#848570)
    That's as close as I've ever seen an opinion come to "Congress, this is a stupid law, and you should fix it -- but, given that it's Constitutional, there's nothing I can do about it."
  • by streetlawyer (169828) on Thursday August 17 2000, @10:08PM (#848571) Homepage
    ... he just decided that source code is not worthy of Constitutional protections.

    No, he decided that source code was worthy of Constitutional protections, and said so, very plainly in the ruling. However, Constitutional protections do not rule out content-neutral regulation of "expressive actions", if the public benefit of regulating the "action" outweighs the restriction which is thereby put on expression. Since the DMCA does appear to fit into this category, it is Constitutional in this sense. He noted that the "fair use" argument was stronger, but decided on balance that CSS did not sufficiently impair fair use to render the DMCA's application in this case to be unconstitutional.

  • by EricEldred (175470) on Thursday August 17 2000, @02:05PM (#848572) Homepage

    I am convinced now more than ever that the best way to destroy DMCA is to use it. Make a CSS-protected DVD...

    It only takes a little money and the cooperation of one DVD mastering and manufacturing company.

    Create 4.7GB of Free Software (including, of course, DeCSS.c). Encrypt it with the CSS algorithms derived from the DeCSS reverse engineering. Prominently display a copyright notice, together with a license that the only way the disc can be used is with DeCSS. Supply DeCSS and necessary other viewing programs on an accompanying floppy. Take it to a friendly DVD manufacturer. Print up a license and contract to go with it. Have all the Linux distros sell it online.

    The point is, DeCSS does decryption--but so does any CSS implementation. Obviously, in this case, DeCSS would be doing it with the consent of the copyright holder--the Free Software Foundation and all the other copyright holders on the DVD.

    Yes, the MPAA and the DVD-CCA will not like this. So they sue. On what grounds? It could only be on trade secrets--but that is a loser--they would have used that in New York if they thought it would win. They use Judge Kaplan's decision, that distributing DeCSS is illegal? But where in his decision does it say that it is illegal to distribute and decrypt a copyrighted work with the authorization of the copyright holder?

    I am really offended by Kaplan's decision. It almost libels the Free Software movement. If it is allowed to stand, then the liberty of all of us using computers and the Internet is in question. Even reporting the code to a virus would be illegal, according to his way of thinking.

    Fairly soon, we will think about using the expanded storage power of DVDs to record computer data. It is time we made sure that we will be free of the monopoly on DVDs by Hollywood. They don't want us to produce content--they want to rent us content on pay-per-view.

    I'm willing to donate money and help for this project. Anybody else?

  • by ichimunki (194887) on Thursday August 17 2000, @11:28AM (#848573)
    If you had actually read the ruling, or even to about page 50, you would have found repeatedly mentioned the fact that our beleaguered defendents here are on trial for trafficking in encryption circumvention technology, not for piracy, copyright infringement, or aiding and abetting such infringement. The specific section of the DMCA that is at question is noted several times both by reference and at least once in quotation. You would have also gotten to an entire portion of the essay devoted to this question. In fact, had you, Stary, invented DeCSS for your own personal use on a Linux system and decrypted every DVD you could buy, you would likely have found Kaplan's ruling in your favor, since he clearly seems to think this would have been acceptable.

    The judge is convinced that the emergence of the decss.exe binary for Windows machines and it's "disease"-like spread (yes, I love where he compares internet file sharing to disease transmission) undermines any verity to the claim that this is a Fair Use issue at least for these defendents.

    Personally I think the DMCA is a great reason to never vote for any Democrat or Republican again. I had gone to great trouble to find links to all the Congress members who voted for this, but the Senate link was session-based (it was a unanimous "yea", btw), and the House had a voice vote, which seems to have prevented a voting record from being made.
  • by Skapare (16644) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:08AM (#848574) Homepage

    The judge was, however, confused by MPAA rhetoric about the distinction between copying and merely accessing. There is no law against accessing what you already own. DeCSS is a tool for accessing, not copying. When used for accessing the information you already own a legitimate copy of, then its use is legal in that no law exists to prohibit it.

    The MPAA is relying on misinformation to win this. You can see the misinformation in every statement they make where they claim DeCSS allows copying. As you should know, DeCSS allows access to bypass the encryption. But a DVD player does that, too, with very slightly less quality.

    The mere fact that we accept lossy compression means we accept less that perfect reproduction as long as that reproduction does not continue to degrade. I could frame capture a DVD movie from a DVD player, re-digitize it, and it will be somewhat less quality than the original, but the digital copy will not degrade any further. That copy could then be illegally distributed and it would remain at that quality level throughout the entire tree of distribution.

    Likewise, the originally encrypted version can be duplicated, and you end up with a perfect copy with the encryption intact. The encryption still means you have to decrypt it, but you now have a mechanism whereby the movie producers are not rewarded for their efforts, and DeCSS is not even involved in this. Copying can be done without DeCSS.

    DeCSS has a legitimate purpose (viewing what one already owns by having legally purchased it and rewarded the movie producers), and does not significantly contribute to illegitimate purposes (since it is possible to access acceptable clear copies, as well as make duplicates of the encrypted copy, all without DeCSS). The facts of this case are that the facts have been manipulated by the MPAA.

    I am not a supporter of piracy. If the MPAA had a legitimate desire to prevent piracy, they would focus on the piracy that takes place, rather than focusing on a tool that allows them to discriminate against me because I choose to not use crappy software from Redmond Washington. Sadly, the court victory means nothing because it won't stop or even reduce piracy. Mostly likely piracy will go up, and I would not be surprised if it triples or more. And in the mean time lots of people like myself will be boycotting not only DVD movies, but all movies produced by MPAA members. It's time to check out your local art theatre or maybe even a real stage play.

  • by King Babar (19862) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:09AM (#848575) Homepage
    I followed this case kind of closely, and I don't remember even a shred of the DeCSS defense revolving around the argument that intellectual property should be free to all. The strongest DeCSS argument, in my opinion, was the one that the reverse engineering was specifically legal because it allowed the content to be played on platforms for which there was not a "legitimate" player.

    I don't think the defense made that statement in court, but the plaintiffs were able to convince the judge that this was, in fact, the case.

    Moreover, if you read the judgement (nobody much here seems to have done this, however), Judge Kaplan thought the strongest aspect of the defendent's case was not the "legitimate player" aspect per se, but the possibility that the situation without the availability of DeCSS would prevent fair use of the copyrighted works encrypted under CSS. Indeed, Kaplan points out that this kind of argument was one of the biggest controversies involved in the passage of the DMCA, and that the act is a compromise of sorts. But over-ruling the DMCA was certainly not his job. Kaplan's job was to decide whether the DMCA would apply in this case (it did), and if the plaintiffs were entitled to any damages if the DMCA had been violated (it was violated, but all he gave them was court costs rather than attorneys fees).

    The presumed appeal here won't be on the facts of whether or not the DMCA was the correct statute to use to grant a permanent injunction on the posting of DeCSS , but whether the "compromise" to fair uses of copyrighted work posed by the DMCA is, in fact, unconstitutional. That would be a much more interesting case, but not the case the judge was in any position to decide.

    Well, I think so; I am not a lawyer. I'm crossing my fingers that Doc Hawke, Esq., will post something more informative on this.

  • by jslag (21657) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:42AM (#848576)
    I mean, look at this stuff...


    Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located.


    While there certainly are those on the DeCCS side who may come off this way, it misses the issue by a mile. DeCCS doesn't "break into. . .computer systems", it plays back media! Nothing in DeCCS makes it easier to illegally use DVDs, unless viewing DVDs is in and of itself illegal in some way (now I guess it is).


    For people paying attention to the trial, is this misunderstanding due to a bad job by the defense lawyers, or is the judge just an idiot?

  • Re:Real Impartial (Score:4)

    by Ralph Wiggam (22354) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:13AM (#848577) Homepage
    The judge was NOT a consultant for the MPAA. A lawfirm he was somehow associated with employed some lawyers who did some consulting for the MPAA. I was furious when I first read that, but after some research I found out that it really wasn't a big deal.
    Did judge Kaplan miss the point? Yeah. Was he biased? No.

    -B
  • by kaphka (50736) <1nv7b001@sneakemail.com> on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:19AM (#848578)
    So am I breaking the law if I wear my DeCSS shirt tomorrow?
    As far as I can tell, the answer is yes.

    I don't find that funny.
  • by Cy Guy (56083) on Thursday August 17 2000, @10:54AM (#848579) Homepage Journal
    It is bizarre that a judge would include in his conclusion statements about the beliefs of plaintiffs and defendants. Isn't the whole point of blind justice that decision is made based on actions, not the personal beliefs of those who act?

    The judge indicates that he clearly took into account the intent of 2600 to distribute DeCSS to be used for other than fair use. Also, he cites there posting of links to DeCSS to another example of 2600's intent to get other to not only download DeCSS but to use to rip DVDs for other than fair use.

    Intent (ie the belief of the defendant/s) has always been a necessary element of proving a crime has been committed. That is why when you kill someone in an auto accident while obeying the traffic laws, you are not considered to have commited murder or even manslaughter, since you had no intent to kill anyone. (if you were violating other laws then you may be convicted based on extreme negligence, but that is a whole seperate story).

    What I fail to understand, is that the judge comes to the conclusion as to the intent of the original author of DeCSS, aparently soley on the basis of MPAA testimony. The author wasn't on trial, but his intent is crucial in finding that the primary purpose of DeCSS was to violate copyright protection, rather than to enable fair-use.

  • Re:Real Impartial (Score:4)

    by MattW (97290) <matt@ender.com> on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:49AM (#848580) Homepage
    Indeed, and I think the summary nicely reveals that clearly the point that people buying a DVD have a right to view it as they please has not been made. However, this is unsurprising, as this was actually a predicted result when the DMCA was being considered as law. If a poor precedent is set, expect the DMCA to protect any and all information with enough lawyers. Why even encrypt with a key? They could have xor'd the content against a 16bit key, and sued just the same.

    I'm going to take the time and write my legislators about repealing the provisions of the DMCA which enact the absurd restrictions on reverse engineering encryption systems, just because they protect copyrighted works. The criminality of that activity should require a burden of proof that it was intended for the illegitimate access to the protected work.
  • by EricEldred (175470) on Thursday August 17 2000, @05:18PM (#848581) Homepage

    Hey, Ketzer, thanks for the "explanation" but it is even worse than Kaplan's decision. How you got a "2" for "Informative" is beyond belief.

    No, because it doesn't have to say that. Just like guns don't have to say "don't shoot people!" on them, because it's already the law.

    So guns are now illegal?

    You didn't buy a movie, you bought a DVD. Nobody signed over ownership of the information contained on the DVD to you. So you don't have the right to do whatever you want with it.

    Well, I say I did buy it and I claim I have those rights. Show me the piece of paper that proves you are correct. You refer to some "license" I never saw nor heard of, even from Kaplan.

    In the case of VHS, they license you to view it under certain conditions, and if you view it under different conditions (like in a big movie theater with 1000 "friends" who paid to get in) then you are breaking the licensing agreement.

    No, you might be breaking copyright law (it depends on what the copyright owner agrees to, when it comes to redistribution--it is not always illegal--look at the GPL for example). However, in some "license" (but not with DVDs) a copyright owner might try to restrict you from making a backup copy. In that case, you need not comply with the license, because that is unconstitutional.

    In the case of DVDs, those conditions are a bit stricter, in the sense that they restrict the method of viewing to a licensed viewer.

    Who says? I never made a contract or bought a license from the DVD-CCA.

    The legal difference is that for VHS, the conditions are determined by Fair Use laws, which say what conditions you are allowed to copy or view the info.

    There are no "Fair Use" laws, there are only copyright laws, and DMCA is part of the same Title 17 now. There is no difference between VHS and DVD. Both have Macrovision, and both try to keep the user from exercising fair use rights of copyright law.

    DCMA makes it illegal to break that encryption,...

    DMCA (not DCMA) doesn't make it illegal to "break that encryption." If that were true, any playing of a DVD in a player would be illegal, because every player has to decrypt the scrambled files.

    which protects information owned by the movie studio.

    There is no "property owned by the movie studio." The movie studio has certain statutory rights for a limited time. But the purchaser of a DVD owns the DVD and can use it, view it, decrypt it, resell it, put it under a scanning electron microscope to examine the pits on the disc, play it on her dishwasher, use it to shingle the roof, or whatever use she wants, after she has bought it. There is no license, no different law for DVDs than for other digital or analog content under copyright law.

    it's a crime to break it and take their info.

    Yeah, this is the "crime" that the MPAA accused 15-year-old Jon Johansen of, "breaking into" his own computer and "taking their info" so he could play the DVDs that he purchased on his own computer (GNU/Linux).

    So you want to lock this kid up or give him a medal?

  • by Alien54 (180860) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:40AM (#848582) Journal
    From page 79 and 80 of the ruling:

    "The other concern--that a liability based on a link to another site simply because the other site happened to contain DeCSS or some other circumvention technology in the midst of other perfectly appropriate content could be overkill--also is readily dealt with. The offense under the DMCA is offering, providing or otherwise trafficking in circumvention technology. An essential ingredient, as explained above, is a desire to bring about the dissemination. Hence, a strong requirement of that forbidden purpose is an essential prerequisite to any liability for linking.

    Accordingly, there may be no injunction against, nor liability for, linking to a site containing circumvention technology, the offering of which is unlawful under the DMCA, absent clear and convincing evidence that those responsible for the link (a) know at the relevant time that the offending material is on the linked-to site, (b) know that it is circumvention technology that may not lawfully be offered, and (c) create or maintain the link for the purpose of disseminating that technology.

    Such a standard will limit the fear of liability on the part of web site operators just as the New York Times standard gives the press great comfort in publishing all sorts of material that would have been actionable at common law, even in the face of flat denials by the subjects of their stories. And it will not subject web site operators to liability for linking to a site containing proscribed technology where the link exists for purposes other than dissemination of that technology.

    In this case, plaintiffs have established by clear and convincing evidence that these defendants linked to sites posting DeCSS, knowing that it was a circumvention device. Indeed, they initially touted it as a way to get free movies, and they later maintained the links to promote the dissemination of the program in an effort to defeat effective judicial relief. They now know that dissemination of DeCSS violates the DMCA. An anti-linking injunction on these facts does no violence to the First Amendment. Nor should it chill the activities of web site operators dealing with different materials, as they may be held liable only on a compelling showing of deliberate evasion of the statute."

    So it seems that while 2600 is enjoined from linking to DeCSS, others not yet named have not been, yet. The MPAA will have to go after each one individually. This will be easier now that this decision has been made.

    Obviously a first victory for the money interests. a shame that the dvd script kiddies who had to go trading these things around screwed it up for the rest of us.

  • Real Impartial (Score:4)

    by Luminous (192747) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:36AM (#848583) Homepage Journal
    Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located.

    I may be way off course here, but I don't believe the defendants would ever make the argument as stated above. Even a foolish idiot wouldn't make such a spurious claim. The fact this judge has interpreted the argument in this fashion implies a clear biased.

    I am not making a comment on the ruling as a whole, just this judge's view of the defendants. It is also interesting to say that the current framework is one that protects and harbors a monopoly.

  • by Quietust (205670) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:38AM (#848584) Homepage
    Zarn: there was an extra / at the end of the link.
    Try this [mud.nu] instead.

    -- Sig (120 chars) --
    Your friendly neighborhood mIRC scripter.
  • interesting times (Score:4)

    by zenith744 (210415) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:38AM (#848585)
    in case the link on the front page is /.ed, here is a link to the nytimes article [nytimes.com]. I like the part where "...He noted that the DeCSS computer code that unlocks the software designed to protect DVDs from being copied is like computer viruses which can ``disable systems upon which the nation depends.'' Really! I guess I better update Norton Antivirus and get the definitions for this new and very very evil DeCSS virus...it could destroy EVERYTHING!

  • by nathanh (1214) on Thursday August 17 2000, @10:05AM (#848586) Homepage
    but keep your motives pure, no winking, no smirking, and you'll be better off at the showdown. The judge is not necessarily your enemy, but he will be if he thinks you're a smartass. Start by taking off that T-shirt.

    Whether intentional or not, your entire post comes across as condescending. The belief that somehow this is a "lesson to all the kiddies" is demeaning and manages to portray the idea that all the people involved were naive and ignorant imbeciles.

    The defendant, the 2600 website operator, was a 40+ year old journalist. Not a punk kid.

    Experts for the defence included 50+ year old Professor Touretzky. Not a punk kid.

    The defence lawyers have 20+ years experience and have acted seriously from the start.

    But the point you raised which annoys me the most...

    Defendents are adherents to a movement believes that if you "buy" the DVD at the store ... you should be allowed to do whatever you want with it, exclusive of giving copies to other people.

    You haven't even bothered following the case else you wouldn't even make this stupid claim. The defendants never once argued along this line of reasoning that "information must be free". I don't believe that rot, and clearly the defence and the defendants didn't either.

    This case is far more chilling than the lame need to watch hollywood movies. What the judges decisions effectively says is that an encrypted material cannot be decrypted without the author's consent. This has far-reaching implications not for DVDs or even movies. This has the potential to destroy Linux and open source itself. Imagine your next video card has the GPU microcode kept in encrypted flash: you can't even use the card without using the vendors drivers unless you want to circumvent the encryption method. This means the DMCA allows vendors to prevent open source drivers from being traded and improved.

    I think you've done a great disservice with your post. Not only did you trivialise the entire defence, implying that they were just a bunch of unruly "punk kids" who were giggling and swearing while acting disrespectfully to the court, you also manage to completely misunderstand what has happened here and why it is so important.

  • by cpt kangarooski (3773) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:59AM (#848587) Homepage
    Their legal footing is this (IANAL):

    1) The first amendment DOES permit the publication of potentially dangerous information or instructions. This has been upheld by the Supreme Court for quite some time (at least since the case in which a magazine published instructions for nuclear weapons construction in the 60s -70s)

    No, you can't say "Let's go kill Brian Adams, right now" but you can say "Brian Adams will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." One is an immediate incitement to an illegal act. The other is not - it's protected speech.

    And source code has been found in a different circuit to be protected speech, and once a case involving that idea gets to the Supreme Court it's likely to be upheld there too - why should VERY PRECISE speech be less protected than vague speech? It's not impossible to program a computer in English, if you're clear and write an interpreter.

    2) The MPAA members are illegally using their copyrights to acquire and keep a monopoly on DVD players. The traditional remedy, as I have heard, is to invalidate the copyrights being used in this manner until such a time as they are no longer being used for illegal activities.

    The Judge (whose firm has consulted for the MPAA on antitrust issues in the past - which is why he probably should not have been involved with this case) quickly decided that the DMCA overrides antitrust law (it plainly doesn't and the Congressional record is clear on that over and over again) and refused to hear arguments along those lines.

    3) Fair use is being circumvented by the DMCA, but fair use is a right which for over a hundred years was found by courts high and low to be more fundemental than copyright. While Congress has since explicitly enacted laws protecting fair use, they are constitutionally unable (so sayeth the courts) to get rid of it.

    But Kaplan let himself be fooled by the MPAA who claim that fair use still exists, even though you can't actually exercise it.

    4) The MPAA never showed any harm, which is something of a prerequisite. The case should have ended at the beginning, really.

    2600 has a MUCH stronger case than the MPAA. They just don't come across as well to a biased judge.
  • by jamiemccarthy (4847) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:26AM (#848588) Homepage Journal

    "Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that..."

    It is bizarre that a judge would include in his conclusion statements about the beliefs of plaintiffs and defendants. Isn't the whole point of blind justice that decision is made based on actions, not the personal beliefs of those who act?

    In First Amendment cases in particular, it is very important to distinguish beliefs from the content in question.

    If I post a photo on the internet which is not obscene, for example, the judge cannot throw me in jail because of my beliefs.

    And if I make a statement about someone which is not libelous, to pick another example, the judge is not allowed to decide based on which movements I belong to. Freedom of association is another freedom guaranteed by the First Amendment; it is unconstitutional in this country to use one set of laws for people in organizations we like, and another set for those we don't.

    Jamie McCarthy

  • But did he? (Score:5)

    by Sloppy (14984) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:32AM (#848589) Homepage Journal

    The DMCA is a law. Anyone posting DeCSS is in direct violation of that law. It's really really simple.

    No, it isn't. DMCA talks about circumventing the protection without authorization, but so far (I haven't finished reading Kaplan's whole opinion yet) the judge has not explained why the owner of a DVD does not have authorization to watch the movie.

    Remember: DMCA strongly implies that whatever authorization there is, comes from the copyright owner of the work, not the inventor of the encryption algorithm. Furthermore, the DVDs are sold without the buyer contractually agreeing to certain conditions (i.e. using an approved player) in exchange for that authorization. Therefore, the question of whether I have authorization or not, is identical whether I play the movie with LiVid or a Sony DVD player.

    If I am violating DMCA when I play a DVD with LiVid, then I am violating DMCA when I play a DVD with a Sony DVD player. I am pretty sure this situation was not Congress' intent, therefore I think authorization has been granted, and therefore DeCSS does not break the law.


    ---
  • by Sloppy (14984) on Thursday August 17 2000, @11:19AM (#848590) Homepage Journal

    It looks like Kaplan found a hole in the Plaintiff's case and tried to patch it himself by pretending that some additional legislation has been passed! Maybe he always wanted to be a congressman instead of a judge. Check this out, from from page 32:

    One cannot gain access to a CSS-protected work on a DVD without application of the three keys that are required by the software. One cannot lawfully gain access to the keys except by entering into a license with the DVD CCA under authority granted by the copyright owners or by purchasing a DVD player or drive containing the keys pursuant to such a license.

    I call your attention to the phrase "by purchasing a DVD player or drive containing the keys pursuant to such a license." Where did this come from? It's not in DMCA. Kaplan pulled it out of his ass.

    Why is this important? Why did Kaplan make this up? Because: The plaintiffs need for the "authorization" to watch a DVD to not be granted by purchasing the DVD. If authorization is granted by buying the DVD, then DeCSS and LiVid do not violate 1201(a)(2).

    Kaplan could conclude that authorization is never granted, but that would mean that watching a DVD is always illegal, regardless of the player. Clearly, that would be contrary to Congress' intent when they wrote DMCA. Coming to a conclusion that is contrary to the intent of the law would be a very bad thing. Sort of like an indirect proof in math, where you assume the opposite of what you want to prove, and show that it leads to a contradiction. Kaplan must dream up some way for authorization to be granted to watch the copyrighted work, without it being implicitly granted when one purchases the copyrighted work.

    One way that a consumer could get authorization would be to sign a licensing agreement when they buy a DVD, where the terms are that the consumer gets authorization, in exchange for agreeing to not watch the DVD on unlicensed players. That would work perfectly. Just one problem: it is ridiculous. People don't sign license agreements when they buy DVDs. So that idea is out.

    At this point, Kaplan is in a real pickle. He can't say that authorization is granted by an explicit agreement, because DVDs just aren't sold that way. He can't say that authorization is never granted, or the defense wins. He can't say that authorization to watch the DVD is granted when the DVD is bought, or the defense wins. And of course he can't let the defense win, because that would make his old firm look bad since they did consulting work for MPAA. (If only he had recused himself, it would be someone else's problem, and they could just rule for defense. But he didn't recuse himself. Oops.)

    The poor man is in a real bind here. What can he do? He has to invent some other way for authorization to be granted, and here's what he came up with: "by purchasing a DVD player or drive containing the keys pursuant to such a license." DMCA pretty strongly implies that authorization comes from the copyright owner. There certainly isn't anything in DMCA that says that authorization comes from the algorithm inventor. Maybe if it had been patented, that would have worked. But CSS isn't patented. Oops.

    There's my challenge to Kaplan and the plaintiffs: explain how I get authorization to play all CSS-protected works (even CSS-protected works where the copyright owner is not a member of MPAA and has no agreements with DVD CCA) by buying a player. Show me the part of DMCA where it says that I can get authorization to circumvent the protection of a copyrighted work, from a third party who may not be acting on behalf of the copyright owner. Show me. I bet you can't.

    I am convinced now more than ever that the best way to destroy DMCA is to use it. Make a CSS-protected DVD and sue Sony for trafficking in a player that plays it. Let Sony's lawyers explain how they, not me, grant consumers the authorization to circumvent the protection on my work. Let Sony's lawyers explain how they bought that right from DVD CCA. Let them explain how DVD CCA has universal authority over all copyright works that are scrambled by an algorithm that is unpatented, public domain, and available from thousands of sites across The Internet.


    ---
  • by adimarco (30853) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:00AM (#848591) Homepage
    I know it's going out of style these days, but let's see what the consitution [nara.gov] has to say on the matter of intellectual property.

    This clause is varyingly known as the "copyright clause" or the "patent clause" depending on what kind of a lawyer you are. Either way, this is the exact wording in the Constitution (section 8) that provides for the creation of Intellectual Property.

    It says:

    The Congress shall have Power...
    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;


    It seems that the authors of the consitution had not intended in any way for Intellectual Property to be a financial protection in the way that it is currently interpreted. Seemingly in direct contradiction, the judge says:

    Plaintiffs have invested huge sums over the years in producing motion pictures in reliance upon a legal framework that, through the law of copyright, has ensured that they will have the exclusive right to copy and distribute those motion pictures for economic gain.

    (emphasis in both cases rather obviously mine)

    Something smells fishy here...

    Anthony
  • by rjh (40933) <rjh@NoSpAm.sixdemonbag.org> on Thursday August 17 2000, @11:33AM (#848592)
    But over-ruling the DMCA was certainly not his job.

    The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you, as does the vast majority of Constitutional scholars in this country.

    Any and every Article III Judge in the United States (and Kaplan is one) has a Constitutional duty to see that the law of the land is upheld.

    The nation's highest law is the Constitution. It is therefore the required duty of all Article III judges to review laws which come before them for Constitutionality.

    Judge Kaplan did so in this regard; he came to the conclusion that the DMCA's more odious provisions do not violate the First Amendment. Overruling the DMCA, if it is unconstitutional, is definitely his job...

    ... he just decided that source code is not worthy of Constitutional protections.

    When the Supreme Court handed down a ruling that Andrew Jackson disagreed with, Jackson refused to execute the Court's order and commented: "[The Court] has made its ruling; now let it enforce it."

    I'm tempted to write a letter to Judge Kaplan saying the exact same thing.

    By the by--many lawyers and judges will disagree with me here, but I strongly encourage people to write letters to Judge Kaplan. Keep them polite, respectful and intelligent--trust me, you do not want to piss off a Federal judge. He will not respond to your letter, no matter how much he wants to; Federal ethics laws forbid him from responding to citizen complaints.

    However, the First Amendment guarantees that we have the right to petition the Government for the redress of grievances. The First Amendment nowhere states that we can only petition our President and Representatives.
  • by tdrury (49462) on Thursday August 17 2000, @10:37AM (#848593) Homepage
    and if I point at you while you are wearing your T-shirt, am I guilty of linking?

    -tim
  • Copyleft T-Shirts (Score:5)

    by q2k (67077) on Thursday August 17 2000, @08:42AM (#848594) Homepage
    So am I breaking the law if I wear my DeCSS shirt tomorrow?
  • by nellardo (68657) on Thursday August 17 2000, @09:11AM (#848595) Homepage Journal
    I found Kaplan's opinion strongly worded, to say the least. He starts out by equating programming as speech to political assassination as speech.

    I understand the limitations on "calls to action" like incitement to crime or yelling fire in a crowded theater. But if that's the basis for eliminating the First Amendment as protecting DeCSS, there's a contradiction between that and the protection that Loompanics [loompanics.com] books get, which include guidelines on credit fraud, making and using explosives, manufacturing illegal drugs, escaping from jail, etc. Posting DeCSS isn't an incitement to commit crime anymore than posting a description of how to make a submachine gun is - what the user does with the information is the user's responsibility, not the information's.

  • Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located

    I followed this case kind of closely, and I don't remember even a shred of the DeCSS defense revolving around the argument that intellectual property should be free to all. The strongest DeCSS argument, in my opinion, was the one that the reverse engineering was specifically legal because it allowed the content to be played on platforms for which there was not a "legitimate" player.

    But regardless of that, I think this ruling shows a fairly huge amount of bias on the part of Kaplan, since I don't believe someone who actually read and understood the defensive filings would summarize the defenese's position in this manner.

    Or, to be less sinister, maybe it was just a serious lack of understanding on Kaplan's part. One way or another though, the gross misrepresentation of defense's argument in the ruling should be strong grounds for appeal.

    -b

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