Can Ordinary PC Users Ditch Windows for Linux?

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Mark Golden, a reporter for Dow Jones Newswires, tried to switch from Windows to Linux, and found it too complex for his liking. He writes: 'For me, though, using the Linux systems didn't make sense. I often send documents and spreadsheets between my home PC and the one at work, which uses Microsoft Office. And the files are sometimes complex. Meanwhile, for both personal and professional computer use, I want access to all multimedia functions. While solutions may exist to almost every problem I encountered, I was willing to invest only a limited amount of time as a system administrator. Claims by some Linux publishers that anybody can easily switch to Linux from Windows seem totally oversold.'"

Newbie Woes

[s73v3r]

As a guy who is doing the same thing he is, trying to drop Windows from my everyday computing, I feel his pain. While editing config files itself isn't too hard, knowing what config file to edit and when, and how to edit it is very difficult for a newbie.

Problems

[TheRealMindChild]

• I should NEVER need to open a console (How often do Windows Users need cmd.exe?)
• The user doesn't care about the neat things they can get from /proc /dev and the likes. Hide these.
• Coming from Windows all of my libraries are in windows\system32 or in the directory of the actual application. Linux could put them in /lib, /usr/lib, /usr/local/lib, /usr/share/lib/, etc, and my application is almost certainly not going to have its own directory.
• Permissions... In windows, if I want to give someone permissions, all I have to do is right click, go to the Permissions tab and add a user, tweak their access. In Linux, it suffers from the Owner/Group paradigm. I shouldn't have to change the user account (add a group to it) to access files.

Re:Another example of lazy user syndrome

[doctor_nation]

I hope you're talking in a purely user-based sense, because being a Linux admin is not remotely simple. Learning how to use a nice stable Linux system that has been set up for you is pretty easy. Learning how to go through the agony of setting up a new system is much, much harder. I'm a programmer and I'm not afraid of poking around in config files, but in my recent setup of my first Linux system (an Ubuntu/MythTV box) I had many points where I was ready to break my keyboard in two over my knee. And I still do whenever I try to get the thing to do what I want. As soon as I leave it alone and accept it as-is, there are no problems. But if I want to fix an annoyance or add a feature, it's no end of trouble. And believe it or not, but there are a lot of people in the world who would rather be doing things other than searching the web for the magic script to fix their problem or fiddling with config files to get something working.

Re:He's sorta right, but mostly off target

[WebHostingGuy]

I think the gist of the article was not that the user had to work with a different interface. But that multimedia and other hardware issues prevented someone from doing exactly the same thing on a Windows OS versus a Linux OS on the same machine. OSX will not work on a Vaio, but multimedia would work out of the box.

Re:Why did he have to replace win2k?

[grahamm]

Multimedia support for Linux is not that bad. I have yet to encounter anything which Vlc, xine and mplayer cannot play. While I have not done much with it, I believe that the format conversion software (eg transcode) is also extremely capable. Do not forget that linux has been used by Hollywood studios for generating computer animations.

Linux Counterparts to Windows Apps

[maccam94]

Seems to me like this guy wanted to see what Linux would be like with almost zero work at all. He didn't try popular apps like GTKpod to connect to his iPod, or MPlayer to watch his media, or install any plugins to Firefox to be able to watch online videos. It's like installing Windows XP and expecting all of your applications to just be there. Guess what, you still have to install iTunes, you still have to install the flash plugin, you still need to install Quicktime, and MS has been in antitrust hearings repeatedly for bundling its media player.

If he'd spent maybe ten minutes googling for "linux ipod" or "linux media player" he could have found the names of the apps he was looking for quite easily, and then installed them through his distribution's package manager (unlike in Windows where you have to search for a download mirror or find the download link on a site, followed by choosing the right .exe to download). The fact that he tries to install iTunes, use Office, etc, makes it look like he's trying to just use Windows apps on Linux, which everyone knows doesn't work very well (and it's really not Linux's fault, the developers of Windows and its applications can't be bothered to help Linux developers, not to mention the fact that the Windows libraries and environment must be emulated).

I'm glad this guy tried more than one distro, but I still think he could have bothered to see what alternatives were available.

Re:We need to get hardware going autmagically

[Korgan]

The issue is not that they don't work, but that you still have to install drivers for them. The point being that in Linux you still have to install drivers for many hardware packages that are out there.

I have in Nvidia motherboard. I can install WinXP on the machine, but I can't use the onboard network interface until I've installed the drivers. It has USB2, but I can only get USB1.1 speeds until I install the drivers. It has onboard sound, but I need to install the appropriate drivers.

All these things have just worked in Linux for me for a long time. I haven't had to install the drivers to get them to work for me because most common hardware is supported directly. Including my Lexmark printer, my Canon flatbed scanner, my Logitech webcam, my Winfast TV Tuner card and so on.

Your point is misleading. Just because every piece of hardware off the shelf works with windows, it still requires that the drivers be installed. Linux has exactly the same requirement. You need to install the appropriate driver (kernel module) for it to work in Linux if one doesn't already exist. However, Linux comes with more drivers built in to the platform itself by default than Windows does. Its not uncommon to have to install drivers off a disc for Windows, but very common for most devices to just plug in and work in Linux now.

Re:He's sorta right, but mostly off target

[fistfullast33l]

I think you got it more correct than the grandparent. Graphics, sound, and multimedia devices are definitely the biggest hindrance to Linux on the desktop. Last night alone I discovered that somehow Gentoo and udev had removed my /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 link to my cdrom drive so now I couldn't mount a cdrom the same way anymore. Then the copying of files to my PSP via USB failed for some unkown reason. Plus, when I mounted the thing again it was read-only and I couldn't change it. Until Linux improves it's support of the more gadgety stuff like multimedia devices and graphics hardware (don't get me started on ATI drivers), Linux on the desktop is not going to get anywhere. The problem, of course, is that this falls squarely on the shoulders of the device manufacturers. They can argue for business reasons that it's not in their interest to support a third operating system. It's a catch-22 of sorts. Linux won't gain ground until hardware support is better, and hardware support won't increase until the userbase grows a bit more.

The only way this can stop is by getting students in engineering, computer science, and information technology disciplines to learn to like Linux and see it's benefits versus other operating systems. This way, when they go to work for the device makers, they can advocate that it's good to offer support for Linux.

Re:Another example of lazy user syndrome

[saleenS281]

fyi, it's "dependency hell" :) since nobody else seemed to want to respond. And packages have actually helped this immensely, it was mainly from the days when everything was compile from source and lucky you got to go out and find all the necessary packages by hand.

Re:Oh well...

[Grant29]

Yep, I use linux for PHP/Apache/mysql developments. I also write some shell scripts. All of this is under Gentoo. When it comes to media however, I'm lost. I can't burn a CD/DVD, I can't wathch video, hell, I've never even gotten the audio to work. I'm not to concered though as I use the machine for development only. Back to the windows machine for the multimedia frills.
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Re:We need to get hardware going autmagically

[Fred_A]

My Mustek 1200 Scanner won't work in Windows. My DLT tape drive won't work in Windows. They both worked out of the box in Linux.

I'll grant you that it's not the norm, but it happens often enough.

Re:The Applications Are Out There

[the_womble]

Most users don't want to have to go out and search for the software they need for their day-to-day usage

UBuntu + EasyubuntuorR Mandriva or Mepis and a lot more the software you need is there than if you had a fresh install of Windows.

My experience over the last few years is that Linux comes a lot closer to "just working" than Windows does.

THEY DO RUN ON LINUX!

[ylikone]

Actually, the Unreal Tourniment and Doom series of games run NATIVELY on Linux. I know because I play onslaught in UT2004 all the time using Linux! If you want to play Half-life games, use Cedega [transgaming.com].

Re:Oh well...

[Fordiman]

It took me weeks to get this stuff working on my box. Most often, a quick 'alsaconf' will solve your sound problems, burning is easily handled by k3b, and kplayer, kaffiene, mplayer, gmplayer, etc. will handle movie watching with ease.

What bugs me about this, though, is that there are simple solutions to almost every problem with linux I've seen - yet the solutions don't quite get integrated into the distros.

It's aggrivating.

Re:We need to get hardware going autmagically

[Lumpy]

I just ran the Windows XP install CD which didn't want to give me a higher screen resolution than 1024 by 768 and didn't get the network running, or my woreless or my soundcard. :-( Such things really need to be resolved, because even if _I_, in discussion with others, would be able to resolve all problems, my grandparents surely wouldn't.

Ubuntu has BETTER hardware compatability than windows XP does out of the box.

No operating system other than Mac OSX will do what you ask. None.

This is why the OS is pre-installed on the computers you get. Windows CANT give you a readdy to go install.. Hell not even a DELL recovery CD will. I still had to go hunting for drivers.

Re:Oh well...

[jacksonj04]

No, it's not. WMP is *capable* of playing DVDs providing you have installed a codec. Same with QuickTime, Real, you name it. You need the codec, which usually comes with a DVD drive. The reason it's not shipped as standard? Because CSS (The DVD encryption algorithm) is a controlled one requiring fees to be paid to implement decryption.

Re:He's sorta right, but mostly off target

[Fordiman]

"Last night alone I discovered that somehow Gentoo and udev had removed my /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 link to my cdrom drive so now I couldn't mount a cdrom the same way anymore"

KDE's 'Safely Remove' option is borken; it removes all links to the device, so if you unmount something like a CD, well shit like that happens (meanwhile, ln -sf /dev/hd(letter of your cdrom) /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 would fix the problem).

"Then the copying of files to my PSP via USB failed for some unkown reason."

Unfortunately, both KDE and Gnome report that copying is done without checking the system's cache. You can copy everything over, think your done, and still have a cache to flush when you unplug the thing. Remember: always run sync and unmount before removing any drive. KDE's 'Safely Remove' doesn't do this right.

So, yes, you're right: The hotplugging is somewhat annoyingly screwy. Me, I do something about it - mostly patch and submit changes (not that they often get used), and write filler scripts to handle integrating the basics.

Yeah right

[SmallFurryCreature]

Play any video that comes your way. Okay, lets put to the test, linux and mplayer vs Windows Media Player.

The first divx or xvid or theora or mkv or ogg file that comes along and windows bites the dust.

Thank you for playing.

Oh you downloaded and installed all the needed codecs on windows. How old fashioned. On linux you just do emerge or apt-get and that is it. All codecs in one. No spyware problems either wich apperently exist with a lot of windows codec packs.

On forums where vids are posted it is a constant topic where I am asked wich codec a vid uses since they can't play it and I am forced to reply that I don't know. I use linux, it just works.

Video playback is the one area linux beats windows handsdown.

Re:It's true.

[Nikademus]

It's more like:
On Windows: find and obtain and pay for DVD-playing software. Install. Play DVD.
On Linux: select a dvd player in your package manager. Click install. Play DVD.

Re:He's sorta right, but mostly off target

[GroinWeasel]

"Okay... backwards compared to an OS that insists that you put your disks in the trash (the place you put things when you want them deleted) in order to eject them"

Use the "eject" button right next to any ejectable device instead.

"And when you change the setting to something you don't want by mistake?"

Change it back??? (duh...)

"Everything I've ever installed on Mac OSX has involved an installer except for a tiny few homebrew applications."

Only things like Photoshop and iTunes (plus other apple stuff) and the OSX version of media player have used an installer (.pkg) that I've noticed. .dmg and drag to applications folder is the norm for most software.

"Furthermore, I was completely unable to remove said software (I'm looking at you Epson scanner) without re-downloading the installer and telling it to remove the program."

Stuff that uses a .pkg is doing so because it makes changes outside the applications folder. Photoshop CS2, for instance is a total pig to unistall on the mac: the uninstall instructions are in a text file, and consist of a long list of things to delete by hand from the terminal. This is, quite clearly however, adobe's fault not apple's. Generally .pkg installing programs are things you'd be unlikely to want to uninstall (iTunes, Photoshop etc) unless you were uninstalling everything (at which point format and reinstall is faster)

"Windows has the Add/Remove panel where you can uninstall any softwre, regardless of whether you have the installer."

This is untrue: go to an application's directory and delete the install log: see how far you get with uninstalling it through add/remove. I've had that effect through file corruption and also through shoddy install scripts on more than one occaision. Also see under "norton ativirus can only be uninstalled via ActiveX over the web".

"And I can't remember the last time I restarted Windows after installing something."

Its interesting: you seem to manage to have used a totally different implementation of WinXP (installing nero last week required 2 reboots before it was done) AND a different implementation of OSX than me (my powerbook just had its monthly update and reboot this morning, it is very unlikely that it will be rebooted again before the next update - in fact its unlikely that photoshop will be quit before then)

"The learning curve on OSX has made me want to shoot people every step of the way. Most notably, its antiquated and nigh-unpredictable way of handling files. Is there a way in OSX to make it so that every, say, GIF image opens in a particular program? I always have to deal with the problem of them wanting to open up in the program that spawned them, and sometimes I don't want to fire up Photoshop in order to look at an image."

Select an item of the correct type. Go to the menu, click File->get info. Find the clearly marked section that says 'open with' -> pick your application. Click the checkbox that says 'use for all items of this type' Close dialog. Note to yourself the implication that 'use for all of this type' means you have the option of setting this per file rather than per type, should you choose.

Feeling clever?

(caveat: single quoted strings are from memory while at work using a PC, and may very well not be verbatim from the dialog)

Re:Oh well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mplayer has played every video I've tried, and I've burnt literally hundreds of CDs (audio CDs, data CDs) with hardly any effort (usually, it's just Right-click->Write to CD, or use k3b). Audio of course works fine for me. Gentoo doesn't really give you as much of a performance improvement as it claims to, so I don't see why someone would hours waiting for every package that is installed to compile... switch to Ubuntu (or Debian); and read the helpful wiki on Mplayer [ubuntu.com], codecs [ubuntu.com], and sound [ubuntu.com]. It doesn't require much knowledge of Linux to blindly follow those intructions, and it would probably take half an hour at most if you're unlucky, but it's worth that time, of course.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Wrong.

[386spart]

No it doesn't. Windows media player can play DVDs only if you have a separate DVD playing app installed. Of course, 99% of all pc's sold with Windows today do come with DVD players preinstalled, and most DVD burners, graphic cards and motherboards have a player bundled. So it might feel like it comes with Windows.

In contrast of course, most Linux distros haven't got a legally clear way to play DVD's, (I don't actually know if there is a legal way available at all?) so your point about it needing the same ease of use still stands. Same goes for a lot of things under Linux, DVD playback is just a small example.

Re:He's sorta right, but mostly off target

[Arker]

It's very easy on Ubuntu too. Apt-get install firefox. Or fire up synaptic, search for firefox, click install.

What he did to try and make the point was link to instructions for installing a firefox version that hasn't been vetted and made available on the ubuntu repository yet. Yes, naturally, that's a little more complex.

That works in Windows too, genius

[Blakey Rat]

While I understand your point, your example is a pretty crappy one... since drag&drop from browsers (and most other apps) works just fine in Windows also. (Even in IE.) Given, most Windows users I know wouldn't ever figure that out because they run their browser "maximized."

To be a real Mac snob, you have to point out how Apple's had well-supported drag&drop since version 7.0 and Windows applications didn't really support it until around 2000ish.

Oh, and just to add insult to injury in my flamebaity post, right-clicking an image in Safari gives you a "Save Image to the Desktop" item which works exactly how you'd expect... so her not finding it might point to a reading deficiency, might wanna check that out.

Re:The same old problem

[polyp2000]

I'm a computer professional and I like Linux and it's abilities, but there is no way my mom or dad could use it as far as installing new programs goes.

Fair comment - But when it comes to the crunch you'll be doing admin for mom and pop once every six months to clean all the crap and spyware out with windows. How about switching that "admin" task for the "installing new programs" on a linux distribution. That's what I did - My retired parents run linux day - to - day for browsing the web, doing word processing with Open Office, Watching Video and Radio podcasts. She even runs Family Tree Maker through Wine. The only trouble is they fight over the computer to play Mahjong or Solitaire.

They have zero problems using linux and the software that comes with it. The only issues that do occur are when one or the other finds a dodgy website that needs some obscure plugin, occasionally the printer stops working, since i showed them how to restart the printer via the KDE Control panel im rarely bothered with it. Things might not work in exactly the same way as windows but its no more easier or difficult for them.

The distro I have set my parents up with is Vidalinux - (I've swapped the default WM for KDE though)

I spent the time getting the linux box set-up just right - everything works, video, internet, digital camera's, filesharing, printing. The beauty of it is that the time I invested has really paid off, I havent had to re-install the operating system for at least two years and I havent had to remove a single piece of mal/spyware. On the rare occaision that something does need fixing, I happy to do so. Unlike with windows where I am engulfed with that feeling of dread I when a friend calls with the plea - "Can you come and look at my PC? its gone really slow and I cant connect to the internet";

Swings and Roundabout's you see ... Windows makes it easier to install programs - But perhaps that ease is outweighed by the ease and regularity at which non-savvy users can install "free" programs infested with malware - which I then have to go along and fix.

Nick ...

Re:Oh well...

[ElleyKitten]

Yep, I use linux for PHP/Apache/mysql developments. I also write some shell scripts. All of this is under Gentoo. When it comes to media however, I'm lost. I can't burn a CD/DVD, I can't wathch video, hell, I've never even gotten the audio to work. I'm not to concered though as I use the machine for development only. Back to the windows machine for the multimedia frills.

Gentoo isn't a real user-friendly distro. You should try Mepis, or, if you like Gnome, Ubuntu + EasyUbuntu. Both will give you the media you want and CD/DVD burning with no extra tweaking (though I prefer GnomeBaker over Ubuntu's default, but you can just find that in Synaptic).

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Oh well...

[SiChemist]

Which of those distributions has a legal DVD player and has plugin support for all the latest Real/QT/Windows Media formats?

Does Windows come with all that? The last time I checked, you had to install a DVD player and real/qt (and some windows media) formats.