Will Novell's Desktop Linux Catch On? 327
Laura writes "Novell says its newly released Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop 10(SLED) can replace Windows for the average office worker. But will enterprises embrace a widespread migration from Windows?" From the article: "The desktop market is a very mature market, and Microsoft has a very strong presence there, which makes it hard for customers to move off [...] However, Jeff Jaffe, executive vice president and chief technology officer at Novell, said at the SLED 10 launch Thursday he is fairly confident that if enterprises have a chance to kick the tires of the new desktop OS, mass migration from Windows is soon to follow."
It may be depending on behaviour from Novell. (Score:5, Insightful)
If on the other hand Novell tries to tie SLED against OES they make a big enormous mistake. Even if SLED is nice i will not use it if its the only choice. Why would i want to lock myself in again coming from another lockin? Before i go SLED i want to see Novell supporting other client dists than SLED.
So basically its not how good product Novell ships but more about how good they interact with the rest of the Linux ecosystem that will doom or raise them to the sky.
Re:Unlikely. (Score:2, Insightful)
Dell has no clean line of thought. There is no such thing as "one major distribution", and there won't be.
What he needs to do is to support one distribution, release modules, patches, etc, for it, and since compatible hardware is highly desirable in open source software these days, all other major distributions will join.
The distribution choosen could be Novell's SuSE, or Fedora, or Ubuntu, or almost anything.
Re:Unlikely. (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It rarely needs rebooting, it lets even computer illiterate users be surprisingly productive, and it really doesn't cost very much. In fact, it effectively comes "for free" with a $500 Dell desktop PC.
For a Linux desktop to be preferred over Windows, the Linux desktop experience will have to provide something new and innovative that Windows does not, rather than just knocking off Windows features.
Hackers like me and you like Linux for many reasons -- but none of those reasons are particularly interesting to Joe Office Manager or Mom and Pop User.
Get innovative, people -- invent something new and useful that Windows *doesn't* have, and then they will come.
boxlight
Re:Unlikely. (Score:3, Insightful)
We've been looking for the opportunity to get MS off our desktops for 5 years. If Novell has a product that can replace Windoze we will seriously consider it for 150 desktops. Disclosure: we are a Novell/Red Hat/Suse shop, which makes a Novell product far more interesting than Ubuntu, as one example.
What is required (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely. (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Displacing MS is difficult (Score:1, Insightful)
For free? (Score:2, Insightful)
In fact, it effectively comes "for free" with a $500 Dell desktop PC.
What on earth do you mean by that?
Re:Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm far from being a Mac Fanboy, but I think that in order for Linux to really be successful, what you need is a review saying 'This is just like OSX, but for free and works on your existing machine'. Windows only enters the equation as a reason to switch and being able to keep your machine will make switching easier for a lot of people.
Shrink Wrap Linux Software at Staples (Score:3, Insightful)
Same thing applies to almost universal availability of manufacturers' Linux drivers on the same CD with Windows drivers.
Re:Unlikely. (Score:3, Insightful)
Dell can use that excuse forever. If he chose one distro to bundle and support, he could do that. No one expects an OEM to support stuff they don't sell.
Re:What is required (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Change is bad (Score:5, Insightful)
It happened with WIN98 to 2000 and I've seen it with "interface issues" upgrading desktops from NT4 to XP.
Putting aside the REAL issues of a major migration, the answer to successful change is to not fight human nature.
Forget about pre-changeover sessions for enduser input and all that. Upgrades succeed in environments where
management doesn't let after-the-fact moaning and groaning be effective tools.
Everywhere else you selectively put shiny new computers (and OSes) on certain peoples desks and just wait.
One hour later when the inevitable jealousy and pettiness reach full force, the users are ready to realize they
can keep their old/slow/loud/ugly computers or be upgraded on schedule. Unfortunately, human nature rules.
Novell, as a company, is too weak (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that something along the lines of an OS platform switch will have to start with companies who outsource their entire IT infrastructure to a company like IBM Global Services, where all of the "figure it out" and "just make it work" bits are Someone Else's Problem.
I know that IBM has financial ties to Novell, and has an interest in keeping it alive. I just don't know that they'll be willing to make it Their Problem on thousands of desktops.
Too much at once (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, I think the end user should not have to use the command line. (...here comes the flame...) As much as I think any self respecting geek should be able to survive without the everyday comforts of his GUI, it is unreasonable to expect everyone to be capable. Now, before I get a slew of 'everyone should be able to handle the terminal', consider this: Not everyone that should be able to drive can replace a hose on their engine. And the terminal is scary to many end users, especially ones that only mail and read a gossip rag online. Until you can really get everything automated, Linux will not be a viable alternative for everyone.
Some companies can't. (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's why: we resell cellular phone service for one of the BIG providers, and their web-based interface to activate phones ONLY works on Internet Explorer. Period. They actually check for other browsers and REJECT ALL OTHERS. They claim security reasons, but I think their web gurus are just morons.
Additionally, our point of sale requires Terminal Server Client (RDP), and we need to have printer support. It is also a windows only application. They also highly recommend Citrix Metaframe, but that's out of our price range (the terminal server licenses are costly enough).
As long as we are an authorized agent for this company, we are required to meet their software requirements. This 100% means Windows, and Internet Explorer. We have managed to cut our MS Office Installs by using OO.org, but this hasn't been without troubles [whining idiots that can't use a mouse reliably, let alone figure out a slightly different interface--good thing MS Office 12 is going to be even more radically different].
There are a lot of small businesses in a similar situation, and as long as this is the case, linux will be a limited use OS.
Now, if someone would release a terminal server client that supported ALL attached peripherals (at the client end), then I would use that (and we might be able to get rid of windows at several points).
Re:Displacing MS is difficult (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:too many Linuxes (Score:3, Insightful)
I can forward an X session from any Unix box to any Linux [or BSD] box. My cupsd in Gentoo speaks to the one in Redhat. My NFS in freebsd speaks Fedoraese [e.g. Fedora implements NFS properly], etc.
While it's true some [mostly C++] applications are not as binary portable as they should be the actual platforms themselves are stable. The programs I run in Gentoo are the same ones you can run in Fedora or SUSE or
If anything the Unix, Linux and BSD OSes provide greater platform portability. My CLI or even X11/Motif application which I built on an O2 box during college built and ran fine on my Gentoo Linux laptop. Without source changes.
Try saying that about Windows. Does your wince application build in Win3.11 or Vista without source changes? Does the binary run across platforms anyways?
Windows is portable across Windows. I've yet to see a Win32 application natively run on anything else.
Tom
M$ Office (Score:2, Insightful)
The nail in the coffin will be a distro that can run all those applications, plus their own. Until then, I can't sell it to management. They won't even look at it. And I'm sorry, but OpenOffice is NOT a replacement for M$ Office, if it looks slightly different then what people are used too, they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
The same goes for Mac.
Granted Codeweavers have the tools, but the licensing will kill a project like this. I've tried to use their setup, but it's just not stable enough for the Admin environment.
Re:Shrink Wrap Linux Software at Staples (Score:4, Insightful)
In Linux, there is essentially no need to box up software on a shelf at Staples. The way that it is different is that you just need an internet connection. All of the software you will need (both Free and commercial) is available as downloads, not on the shelf. It's a new way of looking at things! Let people know about this, and they won't look for it at Staples.
Oh, man . . . I wish it could. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not because of any windows functionality per se, but rather because our chosen mail client is Blotus Notes.
And, yes, some of my co-workers use WINE to run their mail client, but I'm not up for doing that at work (at home, use OpenSuSE 10 x86_64 and Solaris SPARC for all computing), but I can't afford to fight the good fight at work; I'm too busy trying to bring home the big evil!
Still, between efforts like this, Linspire and a whole bevy of others, I suspect that Microsoft's dominance of the desktop is becoming less of a carved-in-stone given and more of simply being the way it is now.
Think like a business user about desktop Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's one thing that's holding the Linux desktop back...standards. Non-technical users know a superset of the following things about their computer:
- To log on in the morning, I press Ctrl+Alt+Del, enter my e-mail address and password, and click OK. To log off, I use Start -> Shut Down.
- To read my e-mail, I use {Outlook | Notes | GroupWise | something else}.
- Ctrl+O opens a file. Ctrl+S saves it. Alt+F4 closes a window. Alt+Tab switches apps, etc.
- To write a document, I use Word. I know 500 key combimations and tricks to get my work done.
- To use a spreadsheet, I open Excel. I also know 500 key combos and tricks.
- To write a presentation, I use PowerPoint. If I'm in sales, I could practically code the next version of PowerPoint. If I'm a normal user, I know a few tricks to get slides written.
- To browse the Internet, I use IE.
- To use my USB flash drive / iPod / scanner / printer, I plug it in and go. (Microsoft really works with vendors to make sure devices work as advertised in all but the screwiest of configurations.)
What people in IT don't realize is that users do not care what technology is new or cool. Users want to do the job they are hired for, go home and spend time with the family. Their computer is a tool, nothing more. It's like a phone or copier to them. They learned Windows and Office, and if a replacement doesn't work exactly as the old one did, they'll resist it.
If the Linux distributions put their strength behind one core set of applications, and also made Linux all but invisible to users who don't want the command line, then a real contender against Windows will emerge. Even Microsoft is worried about people adopting Vista at the corporate level because of the huge system requirements. A well-organized, standard Linux with no complexities exposed to the end-user would be a welcome change in some companies.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:For free? (Score:2, Insightful)
True, but keep in mind that with GNU/Linux hordes of people will be calling in because they can't figure out how to get X to use the correct widescreen resolution (try telling John Doe about modelines in
Not to start a flame war. There are also many things that do work, which don't work on Windows. But human nature is to notice more the things you miss, than the things you gain. And that's a big detriment when it comes to migration attempts.
Wheres The Killer App? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely. (Score:3, Insightful)
I used to think that Red Hat was Linux too (from a commercial/marketing perspective, that is). But now I'm starting to think that it's not someone like RedHat (or even Fedora) who are going to make Linux mainstream.
What's (arguably) the most popular and widely known open-source app out there? Firefox. Is that because of big corporate backing? Nope (well, corporate money, but not marketing or support).
Just yesterday I looked at Ubuntu seriously for the first time, and I'm amazed. It looks like the Firefox of linux distros. User-oriented, simple, and with no tech-speak on the web site. I actually had to hunt for information on what package manager it uses.
Two asides: 1) I think that the first distro that can be consumer-friendly like Ubuntu and capitalize on the exploding computer-lifestyle (social networking, blogs, messaging, photos, television/movies) craze will pull a whole lot of users. 2) The only thing that I think will hold Ubuntu back is the name. Despite its good intentions, "Ubuntu" is not an (American) consumer-friendly name.
microsoft upgrades cost a lot over time. (Score:3, Insightful)
I dont think novell could seriously expect to take a lions share of the market anytime soon - linux adoption will always be a gradual process. I think a big problem is that a lot of windows admin would be out of a job if they had to use linux. there is a big learning curve for moving from windows to linux especially when something doesnt appear to work.
but there are plenty of places where linux on work desktop could start, especially when user have restricted functionality to a few apps anyway (e.g. call centres which genreraly restrict users severely) i would think these sorts of places would be a good place to start.
i had a friend that was working for a company which tried to roll out linux to company desktop but the user revloted because thopenoffice wouldnt run excel macros and they were a finance company. there are always going to be a plethora of issues doing a migration like this and most users will say linux doesnt work (simply cos they're used to windows and are too lazy to figue things out) - so there would have to be a deegree of training to offset this.
so, in summary, for a company generally there will be an increased cost in training/administering linux in the short term but i would say the TCO in the long term would have to work out in linux advantage in the long term as windows always forces upgrades of its products and as we all know is prone to all sorts of security holes/bugs.
It won't catch on (Score:3, Insightful)
email, calendar, phones oh my (Score:3, Insightful)
The desktop has never been important in the workplace. Look at all of the shops that have Windows and Mac users. Getting work easily done through document, information, and financial exchange is the only thing that is important.
Novell has their groupware and SUSE has OpenXchange and Evolution. When they make it easily integrated with handhelds and desktops they will begin to win market share.
If they make something that is a "drop in" replacement I'll be there.
Pay particular attention to that! (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has pushed the cost of tech support for their products off to the OEM's selling the hardware.
Novell will not be able to do that. So, in order for Novell to match Microsoft's profit margin on the OS, Novell will have to charge MORE to pay for the Novell support techs to answer the phone calls that, for Microsoft, would have gone to Dell.
And there will be MORE tech calls to Novell because Dell pre-approves all the hardware they ship for Windows, but not for SLED.
Novell's only hope is to release and support a bootable floppy or CD/DVD that will identify the hardware installed and provide some way for the end user/installer to validate the availability of drivers (100% supported, not supported, partial support with these problems, etc).
Re:Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me guess, you're a gamer and there is no point for you to use anything other than XP because that is what your games require. That would be fine if you admitted it but please don't try to pass off WOW as a social life because it's not.
Re:Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Both help systems suck, if included tools can't fix something the user is out of it's comfort zone on both systems. Editing a textfile or applying a registry hack is intimidating for any inexperienced user.
The big difference is that windows users have come accustomed to all its weirdness and simply don't know and care about alternatives.
So riddle me this... (Score:1, Insightful)
The point being that it's not just the desktop OS -- it's the entirety of the ecosystem that's woven into the core of our business systems and processes. Migrating from Windows would be enormously wrenching and painful to the business (and, frankly, I'm amazed that some of our business folks can tie their shoelaces unaided).
Sorry, but as desirable as it may be to cut ties to MS and their licensing regime, I just don't see it happening any time soon. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
Re:Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Displacing MS is difficult (Score:4, Insightful)
My company would gladdly pay for Windows licenses if I needed Windows, so price isn't an issue.
There are non-religious reasons to choose Linux over Windows or OSX.
Re:Linux guys don't like to hear this, but ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Applation avaliability isnt really a problem today except if you run a backend designed for Windows.
You guys are talking to the wrong people. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You guys are talking to the wrong people. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Displacing MS is difficult (Score:3, Insightful)
Lest we forget, the only reason everyone uses Windows today is because large corporations did in the 80s, not because it won in the home market. (And Apple continue to blow sales by not even allowing ONE other firm to supply OS-X based machine - which immediately writes them out of many contracts).
And I'm typing this on my Mac.
Out of whose box? (Score:3, Insightful)
If it's out of Dell's box, you may have a point.
But if you mean out of Microsoft's box, then you're on crack. Out-of-the-box XP simply does not work. You might have a chance if you also have all of your out-of-the-box driver CDs for all your components. But if you're in my boat, and have to install XP on mom's bare PC that she bought from who knows where, and has no clue what a driver CD is or where they might be, then you're fucked.
Unless of course you have a Knoppix CD, which will recognize almost everything, tell you what the hardware is, allow you to download the drivers and burn them to CD, just so you can get XP to realize that it has a video card and NIC. Linux's out of the box hardware support is light-years' beyond Windows.
Re:For free? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nonsense. OEM licensing is typically much closer to $99 or so. One can see this in action at say, Fry's or Wal-Mart. Walmart will sell a system for $350 with XP Home and the EXACT SAME SYSTEM with Linspire (or another Linux) for $250.
The "Windows tax" is a significant chunk of the cost of low-end PCs (sub-$500 range), which is where the real money in consumer PCs is.
Of course, you're absoultely right about the Linux techs. The software cost is NOTHING next to the support cost, and if you have to spend big bugs to retrain your support staff (and you WILL, if they aren't already Linux experts) it isn't worth it.
OTOH, I disagee that because "Dell's support" has standardized on Windows that's a reason to buy Dells. Dell support sucks ass. All OEM support sucks ass, all the time. I've learned the hard way if you want good support you have to BUY it, and in THIS regard I think Windows has the edge because not only because you have good documentation (I thought the KnowledgeBase and TechNet sucked until I started using other vendors solutions), decent support from Microsoft (IF you pay for it), and a vast range 3rd-party support form lots of vendors. I've found this field outstrips anything for any particular flavor of Linux (RedHat comes closest by far). FWIW, Sun also provides good support for Solaris with a few glaring exceptions (precompiled binaries... rant, rant) but 3rd-parties tend to fill the gap.