The Impact of Violent Gaming 421
An anonymous reader writes "IGN has an article up looking at the impact of violent videogames. It discusses some of the rationale on the gaming industry side for having violent images in their games, and the reactions from politics and lawmakers to these games." From the article: "Despite the large body of evidence that supports a link between playing violent videogames and aggression, lawmakers still have a difficult time convincing the courts that they should be removed from children's hands. One of the reasons for this is that most of the work done is correlational studies which look for a link between two factors. That is, if we see an increase in violent videogame play, is there also an increase in violent behavior?"
Logical fallacy (Score:2)
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
Are violent people more likely to play violent games, or are the violent games making people violent....
or neither....
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
A: Majority of video gamers are male B: Majority of video gamers are teenagers or in their 20s C: Teenage boys are naturally agressive because of puberty D: 20-year old men are naturally agressive because men are designed that way. If A, B, C, and D are each True, then A*B*C*D, therefore T.
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
B) Arguably incorrect. (2/3 are over 18. Average age is 29. There are more women gamers over 18 than males under 18)
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
More wisdom in that than John Cusack may be aware of.
Same princeple in videogames and music. Kids assim
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
Kids enjoy *playing* - and much of their play is imitation. It's why kids love dressing-up. We've all seen plenty of kids doing the kung fu/Power Rangers/whatever thing. None of them are likely to do any damage, for the simple reason they're just jumping in the air, sticking a leg out and shouting "heeeeyah!" And all o
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:3, Interesting)
There was an interview with a Marine Drill Sgt. who was commenting on how video games have affected his recruits. He said that one of the hardest things to teach was target to target movement. The act of killing a human is a traumatic experience and the most common reaction is to freeze on the spot. This is not a desireable trait to have on a battlefeild.
He then went on to say that the kids he has come into train
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously, though, taking all that into account would have taken far too long to allow much chance of getting first post.
Melanin causes Violence! Ban Melanin! (Score:3)
One correlation is that the more melan
How about (Score:2)
Unfortunately (Score:3, Interesting)
Is the experience of many violent games a contributing factor to violence in later years? Does it predispose a person to violence? Does it make a person more tolerant of violence? More apathetic regarding violence? more accepting of violence?
Does it contribute to the idea that violent solutions are more acceptable and viable than other solutions. Does it promote a violent sense of politics?
Does it contribute to an ability to confront and handle violence, and the art
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
Re:Logical "/." fallacy (Score:2)
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
Re:Logical fallacy (Score:2)
Just because you can find an example of something that fits into that sentence and makes no sense doesn't mean you've proved that anything stated in that form is wrong...
The high correlation between the number of folks carrying umbrellas and the likelyhood of rain does not imply that carrying an umbrella causes rain, any more than it implies that a higher probibility of rain occuring causes people to carry umbrellas.
-bs
Re:simplistic mantra (Score:3, Insightful)
"Correlation is not causation," is useful when teaching introductory students the risks in too-readily drawing causal conclusions from a simple empirical correlation between two measured variables.
The people I work with, involved in very real research, do NOT take "Correlation does not imply causation" as simplistic. While it may be useful for suggesting avenues to research, it is just not much more useful than that.
Whole scientific fields are based on correlational data
Maybe it's actually the opposite (Score:2)
Huh? Did I miss a memo? (Score:2)
Where? Where is that evidence? I've seen no such thing.
That is, if we see an increase in violent videogame play, is there also an increase in violent behavior?
Oh for fuck's sake.... people, IGN is trolling. My dog knows the difference between play-fighting and real fighting. Let's give our kids a little credit, shall we?
"Somebody think of the children..." Seldom is it mentioned that the childr
Ah, the argument from ignorance (Score:2)
I'm not saying it is true, I'm just saying that's a very stupid argument.
Re:Ah, the argument from ignorance (Score:2)
If you check actual statistics [usdoj.gov] you will see that violent crime has been steadily declining since about 1993. I can argue that this is due to Internet and the cathartic effect of video games.
Few times I mentioned this topic to my kids, they said "Dad! We can tell the difference between reality and a game. Duh!"
Re:Ah, the argument from ignorance (Score:2)
Well, I asked, didn't I?
Re:Huh? Did I miss a memo? (Score:2)
http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/faculty/caa/abs
Re:Huh? Did I miss a memo? (Score:2)
here [google.com] and here [google.com] and right here [google.com] and somewhere near here [google.com] and also over here [google.com] and probably just passed here
Heh... Google scholar wins.
Re:Huh? Did I miss a memo? (Score:2)
I noticed that, as well (for once, I actually READ TFA), I must say, I was impressed to see citations. Kudos to IGN.
Remove the violence (Score:5, Funny)
Think of Super Mario jumped on mushrooms and they turned into happy angels instead of dead pancakes? Or in Unreal Tournament you fire paintballs, or tickle people at close range? Or in Mortal Kombat you have a tickle fight, and instead of ripping out a heart, you read the woozy opponent a bedside story. I think it would sell just as well. A game doesn't have to be violent, it can be funny and still be as fun.
Re:Remove the violence (Score:2)
I remember when I first showed my cousin the original Sonic the Hedgehog and the way that the robots turned into happy little animals when you jumped on them. (Freed from the evil Dr. Robotnik's roboticizing process). He was quite sickened by it, said something about "drowning in saccharine."
Re:Remove the violence (Score:2)
Fighter 1: I unleash my Insidious Feather attack!
Fighter 2: I counter with the Cat-In-The-Hat!
Re:Remove the violence (Score:2)
Thats exactly the idea behind the "Friendship" finishing moves in Mortal Kombat 2. What better tongue-in-cheek nod to the pressure groups than finishing a brutal fight with a magic trick or a birthday cake?
Re:Remove the violence (Score:2)
In some cases you're right: GTA would've been just as fun without the murdering and gangsta themes.
But sometimes, after I come home from a stressful day at work, I WANT TO BLOW THINGS UP IN A VIDEOGAME, whether it's spaceships or robots or castles or cars or people. If that's wrong (it isn't) then lock me up right now because stress, and therefore my stress-relief methods, are not going away.
If the game with
References? (Score:2)
Care to provide some references? I understood that most studies found exactly the opposite.
Re:References? (Score:2)
Psychological Science [blackwell-synergy.com]
The abstract: "Research on exposure to television and movie violence suggests that playing violent video games will increase aggressive behavior. A metaanalytic review of the video-game research literature reveals that violent video games increase aggressive behavior in children and young adults. Experimental and nonexperimental studies with males and females in laboratory and field settings support this conclusion. Anal
Re:References? (Score:2)
Care to provide some references?
Re:We are the reference (Score:2)
Me, myself, and I.
I played Doom, listened to NIN and vulgar heavy metal music, violent movies, porn, and violent hentai as a young child. (for your reference this was 1993). I was a Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat junkie when I was younger than that... Heck... I even played Time Killers. I read violent and dirty comics.
I was a bad kid.
I also read books like Clockwork orange and James Clavell's "dirty" books (well his is more educational about eastern cultures but it opene
Yes and no... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yes and no... (Score:2)
So is that what this kid's [ebaumsworld.com] problem is? He's not
Re:Yes and no... (Score:2, Funny)
I hope he's getting a large grant! (Score:2)
Also, can anyone tell me why eating high calorie food day in and day out for my entire life without excercise is making me gain weight?
Listen to reason (Score:2)
Not this again? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I dare say that some people, if exposed to violent games (or films, or books, etc) will go off and do stupid, stupid things. Chances are, though, that these people would have done stupid things even without the exposure. Plenty of people who have never played a game exhibit agressive behaviour.
What I don't understand is why each generation seems to be so afraid of what the younger generation is into. All we're seeing is the same arguments that were made about rock and roll in the fifties, or violent films in the late 70s and early 80s.
I'm not exactly old, but I'm not really young any more either (I'm 31), but I hope to God I'm not so fucking stupid and scared when I do become "old". (Although given I have a house, mortgage, car, daughter, etc, I think by most reasonable definitions I already am)
Re:Not this again? (Score:2)
It'll have to be some fucked up trend like I dunno, direct neural manipulation or something because as far as I can see at the moment, the media does very little to screw kids up that weren't fucked up before.
I blame the parents
Re:sorry bud but you old (Score:2)
Justin, 35.
The real cause (Score:3, Funny)
It's being assaulted with the same hyped-up news "story" about video game violence on every slow news day for 20 years that makes me want to hit somebody.
Aren't crime rates going down? (Score:2)
Games (and other forms of entertainment) depicting violence have been on the rise. So how can anyone claim there is some correllation?
Re:Aren't crime rates going down? (Score:2)
I mean from a bunch of people living in shell for fear of offending "god"
And for the record "Seventh Heaven" sucks bad!
Tom
I understand correlation != causation, but... (Score:2)
I'm less concerned about kids going out and attacking someone after playing these games, than looking on unfeelingly while someone else does. That affects their personal social interactions, and over time, can impact society as a whole.
The more I read, the more I loathe (Score:2)
Richard Gallagher: Playing videogames with aggressive content does have an effect on children, teens, and adults. In children and teens, several results are associated with exposure to aggressive videogames. First, youth experience an increase in arousal that suggests an increase in tension that may contribute to aggressive behavior. Second, youth engage in more aggressive thinking about ot
Obfiscation (Score:2)
Re:Obfiscation (Score:2)
To give you a clue, it just does not work. Kids will make toy weapons even if you do not buy them. Playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians (of course that is not PC anymore) etc.. have kids trying to kill each other with their imagination. Now they are doing so on the net. Only thing different, is they do not need as much imagination.
Re:Obfiscation (Score:2)
Re:Obfiscation (Score:2)
In the separate cases of violent games and real life violence, I ask only where is Pavlov's bell? You suspend established scientific thinking yourself when you beg the question by assuming the conditioning of pla
Science (Score:2)
I grew up playing video games, starting with the 2600 and a TRS-80 and going through Doom, Wolfenstein, and all the other favored punching bags of the "games cause violence!" people. I enjoy GTA, I bought all three PS2 GTA games and play them regularly. I also enjoy the Splinter Cell series, sneaking around and murdering people. I love Burnout, drivin
Political Posturing and Male Bravado (Score:2)
If anything, pop culture violence is a necessary outlet for males to vent their genetic behaviour without resorting to
Some games DO cause violent thoughts. (Score:2)
Those little glitches last night made me want to pimpslap a developer, so I guess maybe the critics are right and I should just give in and go get a Mac 10 or something.
glorification of violence (Score:2, Insightful)
That said, there is a much bigger problem at work here and that is the glorification of violence: on television, in movies, in comics and by our political leadership.
As an example, I read comic books when I was a child, wh
Re:glorification of violence (Score:2)
Not glorifying violence (Score:2)
It is our constant need for realism in our media and m
Re:glorification of violence (Score:2)
Nice job. You have completely tossed aside the notion of intent. You apparently believe the harebrained notion that the military uses brainwashing to turn "normal" people into mindless killing machines. Video games and flight simulators aren't used by the military to turn people into ki
Re:glorification of violence (Score:2)
Really? What about those that they joined so they could get an education that they otherwise couldn't afford?
Simulations and exercises are used merely to teach and reinforce technique
Exactly my point. Most video games contain "techniques" that we should NOT want to teach and reinforce.
No one becomes a trained killer against their will.
So why not let people leave the military whenev
Half the effect of violent television (Score:2)
Look people, let's think about this... (Score:2)
But really, what was the high point for the American Child Psychology establishment? It was the early 1950's Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Deliquency hearings [wikipedia.org], that managed to completely ruin (in a financial sense) and censor American comics. American comics
People=Animals+Civilization (Score:2)
The problem we have here is the basic premise that the baseline, the "normal" person they define for the control group, is the ridiculous fantasy of a peaceful human being. Humans are social in nature and tend towards cooperation, but we are at heart competitive and cooperate out of a desire for personal gain. This is by no means a bad thing. Indeed, modern society has gotten to where it is because, du
Re:People=Animals+Civilization (Score:2)
I remember reading somewhere once that the other countries consider the US to be the "denial" nation. We deny death and refuse to acknowledge it exists. We deny sex and the flashing of a breast on television is cause for uproar and international scandal. We deny and decry violence - even those we mostly partake in forms of mitigated violence - sports, academic competition, hell... even American Idol isn't about seeing one person win but hundreds fail and lose miserably.
It is indeed in our v
Crap Journalism (Score:2)
What's the other side? Is there another side? What do other psychologists say? What does anyone from any of the states that passed the laws say? What do kids say? What do adults who play games say? Is there anyone who disagrees with you? Is there anyone who disagrees with them.
Also, Jesus, could you ask more leading questions? You asked the question about video games relieving stress twice and you never should have asked it once. You never a
Re: (Score:2)
See the future? (Score:2)
Is Slashdot predicting the future now or is dupe going to be a tag for every post?
Golden Gloves (Score:2)
A 16 Year old can join the Armed Forces.
Kids can play Paintball or Good old fashioned War games.....
And lastly they can play violent video games.....
I did all of the above
But dont forget its ONLY the Video Games, not shit poor inner city schools or anything with guns and teachers who dont do anythign a
Bigger picture (Score:2)
Calvin and Hobbes (Score:2)
1st panel:
"Graphic violence in the media."
2nd panel:
"Does it glamorize violence? Sure.
Does it desensitize us to violence? Of course.
Does it help up us tolerate violence? You bet.
Does it stunt our empathy for our fellow human beings? Heck yes."
3rd panel:
"Does it CAUSE violence?
4th panel:
(smiling) "The trick is to ask the right question."
Personally I believe that ad
Let's tackle this in the real world first, then. (Score:2)
For example, there is a game played in the real world called "American Football". This game involves teams of highly-trained thugs engaging in brutal pitched battles for the amusement of crowds. So violent is this game that players wear extensive body armour, and injuries are still common. But it's not just about violence: apparently this game also celebrates the sexual objectification of women, through a convention kno
Games don't disconnect kids from consequences (Score:2)
First, I don't think that any kid is confused about whether the portrayal of a giant-bodied, over-muscled avatar with an oddly small head, swinging a sparkly, glowing, acid-dripping battle axe the size of a Vespa scooter at an imaginary hominid foe with a boar's head or a stormtrooper's outfit is real or not. No more than kids 50 years ago were confused about whether the Lone Ranger perhaps lived down the street, or whet
Correllation is not causation but... (Score:2)
I mean, it'd be ideal if we can actually find a direct cause, but let's take things one step at a time.
Yeah... (Score:2)
Oh, wait...
Basic problem with the anti-violence people (Score:2)
It isn't evil, it is a natural part of the world that God created. Predators violently attack and eat other creatures. All the really succesfull species (humans and several insect species) go to war. Just like power by itself isn't evil, it is what you use it for that determines if violence is evil or not.
That is why they keep failing to pass laws. They try to show that the games make you think violent thoughts, or make you a tiny bit viole
Lawmakers Convice Courts? (Score:2)
Lawmakers pass laws; they do not enforce the laws in court. Highschool civics - Congress makes the laws, the executive branch enforces the laws, and the courts interpret the laws. Now that that's out of the way, what is really happening is that every time some states attorney tries to enforce
Politics and lawmakers are expensive babysitters (Score:2)
When was it that kids' decisions about what to play, where to go (real and virtual world), what to eat, etc. overrulled their parent's decisions??
Why is that supervising w
it all comes down to how you view human nature (Score:2)
case closed
therefore, what function does violence/ sex in media serve? i assert to you that these things serve as catharsis. that is, everyone accumulates mental garbage: antisocial aggressive feelings and antisocial sexual feelings, and needs to "take
Heh, Seems almost dupe like.... (Score:2)
Individuals? What? (Score:2)
If you have a person prone to violence who lacks the ability to consider consequences (a lot of teenage boys fall in this category), it stands to reason that you can see an increase in violent behavior when they are regularly exposed to violent games, movies, music, literature, et cetera. One just needs to be impressionable and have a tendency toward the behavior being presented.
The vast majority of adults and a lot of kids are perfectly
There is a reason why we use simulations... (Score:2)
There is a reason why we use simulations - because they allow us to simulate things that happen in real life so as to experience or predict what would happen in real life without the risks or costs.
If exposure to violence has an effect on us psychologically, then it is logical to expect that the more realistic a violent simulation the more true-to-life the psychological effect sh
Beware skewed statistics! (Score:2)
Do we have a higher crime rate than 20 years ago? Yes.
Does this mean there has to be a correlation between them? No.
It COULD be. But the causal dependency is missing.
By simply labeling one factor as the culprit, you ignore all the others that sociologists and related scientists field as possible reasons for the increasing violence.
General dissatisfaction and frustration, because of unemployment, low wages and the ever growing gap between rich and
Not if it induces violence, but rather which sort (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I don't think games induce violence as much as they inspire violence. Which is to say that, although the type of violent acts may very easily be copied from populair entertainment, I highly doubt if the amount of violence can be traced back to the amount of violent entertainment which is consumed.
When I decide to go on a murderous rampage to kill random people after having played a game of Carmageddon, it is obvious that my violence is inspired by the violence which is so abundant in that game. What is not obvious is that I wouldn't have found another way to express my violent needs for lack of creative inspiration. People have been torturing, maiming and killing each other for a little while longer than high-tech-taintment has existed.
I find increasing overpopulation to be a much more likely source of violence than increasingly violent entertainment. But, after all, a correlation does not necessarily indicate a causal relation. Such relations are difficult to prove without a rigidly set up experiment.
Re:Blaming video games (Score:2)
Re:Blaming video games (Score:2)
Re:Blaming video games (Score:2)
Re:Blaming video games (Score:2)
I thought it was "...until someone draws Mohammed."
Re:Blaming video games (Score:2, Informative)
as someone that does have a small child (Score:2)
I wouldn't play something like GTA with him because it introduces questions I can't easily explain, like "why are you kicking the p
Re:as someone that does have a small child (Score:2)
So is football (Score:2)
I'm a middle age man, and even I think these studies are nothing but bullshit. Boys tend to be aggressive, and it is boys who mostly play violent videogames. It's also mostly boys who play football, snap each other with towels, and pound each other on the limbs and body in sport and game. This is not fucking abnormal behaviour, it's how we are wired from birth.
Re:NO! (Score:2)
Listen to this. Video games are not bad for children. Neither is porn.
Millions of kids (including myself) played violent video games in the early 90's and aquired porn mags.
I'm not saying you should openly give these things to your kids, but obviously it won't kill them if they ecounter them.
You know is bad for them...
Abusive parents.
Neglegent parents.
Abusive relatives.
Pare
Re:Blaming video games (Score:2)
From my own experiences and observations, that assertion is completely true on some levels. What I have observed however, is that the type of violence played in the game directly relates to how the subject reacts.
"Moral" violence (IE
Re:Average age and gender of /.ers (Score:2)
I am going to suggest something really strange and weird. How about parents taking responsability and get this, sit down with their kids and talk to them and explain to them why violent games are not real, or even why they shouldn't play violent games. Or better, don't buy them violent gam
Re:Average age and gender of /.ers (Score:2)
"have you ever tried just sitting down with your kids.... and hitting them?"
Re:Pacman (Score:2)
>running around in darkened rooms listening to repetitive music munching on pills...
Ever been to a nightclub?
Impossible to isolate... (Score:2)
Of course, the problem with identifying causality is in the case of vicious circles, where A causes B which causes A.
Frankly, there is too much noise in this case to be able to isolate the impact of videogames. This noise can be identified as:
* Intrafamiliar violence
* Lack of moral education
* Economical stress in the parents
* School problems, bullying
* Depression
Media (including videog
Re:Has nothing to do with it (Score:2)
That has absolutely nothing to do with the court...the law forbid any legal action against them.
The law forbids action against the videogame makers. The protections guaranteed by the Bill of Rights does not, though, extend to minors. We can deny the sale of media to children, just as we can deny them the sale of alcohol, or enforce curfews.
The only thing the courts need is reasonable evidence that violent videogames are harming kids, and that it is in the pub
Re:It is all because of Dungeons and Dragons (Score:2)
After all, our parents were idiots. But WE know better! We may never have even seen a game, we may never have played one, but we definitly KNOW it's gotta be games!
Re:I kill Gnomes and Dwarfs (Score:2)
Oddly enough you never hear that kind of logic when it comes to evening news...
Re:Are TV/Movies not a greater impact than games? (Score:3, Insightful)
The article is actually pretty interesting, because, although he seams to have an agenda, he cites a lot of scientific evidence.
And about TV (from the article) :