Techie Friendly Towns, Worldwide?

banditski asks: "A while back, there was an Ask Slashdot forum about Geek-Friendly cities. Invariably, most of them were in the U.S. Now, I'm finishing school in a month or so, and I'm looking to move abroad and see what else is out there before I settle down into a nice comfy niche. My question is this: In which 'foreign' cities (as seen from North America) is there a lot of Internet/IT action taking place? And how well could a predominately English speaking person adapt to living and working in these cities?" On a related note, you might want to check a slightly related article, aptly titled 'Good' Countries for Geeks.

Calgary

Ok, so it's still in North America, but rated as one of the most techy towns in Canada :-)
Last stat I heard, over 65% of the population had internet access. Lots of good techie places to work in Calgary to, JAWS [jawstech.com] (encryption company), there is an MS office, lots of good places. City is growing too, up by 12k or so just last year..
Problem is the taxes - ~40% of your pay is taxed :-(

Brisbane - Queensland - Australia

Though I am most probably biased, seeing as I like there, I feel Brisbane is a unique city to live in and has a thriving I.T. community. Many I.T. company's are based here and consequently there are many job opportunities. There are many good Universities in the city. Though the Internet Censorship laws have been enacted in Austrlia they have proven to be, as most people suspected they would, ineffective in stopping transfer of the kind of material it set out to.

Friendly people, smart people (not just I.T), very livable city with little polution and more Urban Sprawl than you can poke a stick at (we built outward rather than upward). All these things make Brisbane the best place for an I.T. professional!!!

London and Amsterdam in Europe

London is currently economically booming. There is a lot of work for IT consultants, IT contractors, Web everything. We have connectivity difficulties (no xDSL yet, and leased lines are expensive). Amsterdam is also (from what I hear) very developed in the field. Amsterdam is also very welcoming for English speakers. Everyone there speaks English very well and many of the businesses operate in English.

Guildford, Surrey, England...

Isn't a bad place to live if you're a geek - The main attraction at the moment being the cable modem avaliability - ADSL isn't widely avaliable in the UK yet (Although BT keep promising that it'll be here Real Soon Now, Honest)...

Guildford also has quite a lot of tech companies based there for a town of it's size (pop. roughly 130,000) - especially games companies - EA/Bullfrog, Lionhead, Mucky Foot, Criterion Studios, Fiendish Games [fiendishgames.com] (The company I work for), KUJU Entertainment, Glass Ghost, etc..

It's main downside is that it's quite expensive - on the whole you'll be paying pretty close to London prices on most things. Speaking of London, though, it's only about 40 miles away, and it takes half an hour on the traing to get from Guildford to Waterloo station, and during the day trains are every 15 minutes...

I quite like living here - it's not the best place on earth, but I've got my cable modem, so I'm happy.

cheers,

Tim

P.S. And Guildford Computers is a great place to pick up old cheap bits of computer hardware - Just great if you're trying to put web terminals in every room of your house...

Melbourne - here's some links

I used to live in Wellington, New Zealand. And that's a nice city - but small, only 400K.

At the start of last year, I moved across the Tasman, to Melbourne. Melbourne is just a really nice place to live - great culture, night life, and the job scene seems to be going strongly.

I've found it pretty easy to settle in here, and meet people. There is always something to do. As for jobs.. try these sites:

IT Jobs site by Fairfax [fairfax.com.au]
Seek [seek.com.au]
Monster [monster.com.au]


As for other sites of interest, check out:
Immigration site [immi.gov.au]
Autralian Taxation Office [ato.gov.au]
Domain [domain.com.au] a great place to search for share accomodation
The Age newspaper [theage.com.au]

Umm.. I don't have links for what's on around the city, but some great stuff happens, apart from the good club scene - there's the formula 1 grand prix, if you like noisy loud things that go fast, moonlight cinema is a good thing in summer - outdoor movies. It's just really kind of relaxing and nice.

Melbourne is just really livable and has a good public transport system Victrip [victrip.com.au]

Hope this helps.. and don't forget, I'm a kiwi saying this about Melbourne :)

Scandinavia - Take your choice

I moved to Norway a little more than 7 years ago, my wife is a Norwegian national. It has turned out better than I ever dreamed, and I will be here for the duration, whatever that is.

I have done some travelling in Europe for business, and gotten to know a little bit about most of the countries.

All of the scandinavian countries are great places to live, and really oriented to high tech.

The difference is in economy of scale. The American perspective is way too big, actually. Here, there are a zillion small companies that are a riot to develop for, because they aren't so big. Then, when you have come up with something really cool, use your American connections to market it stateside.

Here is the hard part - language and work permits. Generally, they are so hard up for tech types that you can make deals to circumvent these problems. However, I would STRONGLY urge you to learn the language of your target country. You don't have to speak it perfectly (I speak Norwegian with a John Wayne accent), whatever effort you make will be greatly appreciated. Plus, we spend all of our time learning C, PERL, etc., why not hook up with a whole new group of people?

Lykke til videre! (Good luck with your plans)

Re:London and Amsterdam in Europe

Amsterdam is also very welcoming for English speakers.

Londoners, OTOH, might argue as to whether Americans can speak English:)

Cambridge UK

Cambridge UK is the central point for high tech R&D in England (Reading is more of an commercial IT type area, and LondonCity is more financial) - with a lot of biotech and software firms, including a number of web based start ups. AT&T and Microsoft have R&D centres here.

Good points:
- it's a student town, so there are lots of pubs, and lots of people from different places, so a sort of international melting pot community.
- in the university environment, there are a lots of lectures, classes and interesting things to do if you are in the student/graduate social scene.
- job wise, there's a shortage of engineering supply, and lots of software work, you can walk out of a job one day and pick up another one the next day.
- close to the excitement of London, only 50mins by train into central London for museums, nightlife and everything else, London is one of the great cities you need to experience.
- close to major airports such as Stansted, and Heathrow/London, making it cheap and easy to take off on holidays around Europe, including discount operators such as Go, Easyjet and Ryanair.
- Cambridge university is on the academic tour circuit, so there are lectures by and visits by well known 'stars'.
- the pound is strong, so being paid in pounds sterling is good.
- its a cycle town, so you can get around by bicycle easily and cheaply, plus it's also semi-rural, so you can escape into the surrounding countryside in several minutes.
- a reasonably civil and cultured community: arts theatres, arts cinemas, reasonably good restaurants, museums, sports activities, etc.
- more of a community and friendly rural town feel than of a busy carbon-monoxide drenched city (i.e. the feeling of London or Oxford).

Bad points:
- traffic is bad, trying to drive around in during peak hour, or finding parking spots at any time, can be problematic.
- english weather is often dreary and bland.
- the cost of living is relatively high compared to the average salary that people earn.
- british reservedness and class attitudes, which are still somewhat prevalent.
- in technology/engineering/commercial terms, the practices are behind the united states and australia (in my experiences so far) - it is no match for silicon valley.
- high rents and living costs, and housing shortage in general - accomodation is impossible to find at times.

I've been here for 2.5 years now - I have worked, travelled, studied, attended university formal functions, made friends in the university, spent time in London, hung around coffee houses, devoured books in the many book stores, entertained friends as visitors and a lot more. I only wish that the weather was better.

If your career/job skills match the speciality of the area (high tech R&D), then Cambridge can be a good base for several years of work, travel and life.

It's not where you want to go...

but where they'll accept you. I'm sorry to rain on your parade but most countries in the western world have very strict immigration laws. I'm afraid to say that the UK Home Office can be particularly difficult. In fact most EU countries will be fairly difficult to get a work permit for. Sometimes it may be worth getting a lawyer to help you deal with the work permit issues. This is what I had to do anyway.

Of the western countries that have foreigner friendly immigration services three clearly stand out: Canada, Australia, New Zealand. All three have policies that with a bit of luck will allow you to work there for a while and even settle. Their governments run various programmes to attract foreign individuals with the right skill sets. Canada is probably the most prominent of the three so that's where I'm heading in September ;). All of them will have a requirement that you have some experience in your field prior to your work permit application. Usually they ask for two or three years.

Also with some luck you may get to South Africa. If you feel you are open minded enough you should try some Central Europe countries. Hungary, Poland and Chech Republic are the most developed of the lot and their major cities will have quite a few techie jobs. Their immigration policies are now in place but at least in Poland it's not a problem to get a permit as long as you have some sensible qualifications. The employers will be quite enthusiastic towards English speaking foreigners there as well so you'll probably feel quite welcome.

As for Asia I don't know much about it but I heard Taiwan is seeking English speaking foreigners to work for their companies but it's not something I could confirm. Don't know about the rest of Asia though.

So that's it. As you can see there isn't that many choices you have. Being an American if you have no or little work experience you can rule out pretty much all of EU straight away, unfortunately. They won't let you in. Consider Canada, Oz or New Zealand or perhaps Central Europe. Sorry about this pragmatic tone but despite all the media blabbing about global workforce the governments are still placing awkward barriers even for highly skilled people. This is something you will have to wrestle with. Good luck with your endavour.

jobs for foreigners in the Netherlands

today or yesterday it was announced that some ICT companies in the netherlands will get some extra room to hire people from outside the EU, so that may just be a good shot if you wanna come to the Netherlands. Speech is free, the beer is good, coffee is just about a national drink, job security is good. Most people know english quite well, so language shouldn't be much of a problem either. at age 18 you're fully adult, so none of this 21 year crap for buying alcohol. And then there's coffee-shops, but that's another story (that has remarably little to do with coffee)

//rdj

P.S. No, I don't know what companies are hiring.

Re:Guildford, Surrey, England...

Trying to avoid adding a "me too" here. Even though I grew up in Mass (another great place for techies), spent last eight years in the Thames Valley [that's including Guildford]. A couple of extra things about the Thames Valley:

Bracknell

• While considered by many to be a shite place to live, you are right next to many of the most famous places around [Ascot, landed gentry, need I say more?] and you get to work in the same town as the Met[eorogical] Office. What's so great about them? Well they've got one of the fastest Computers around, a Cray T3E, which cranks out weather information for all around the world. 90% accurate or some such. It's just a shame that england's weather is inherently unpredicatable. Bracknell's other claim to fame is the amount of Big tech companies there, Sun, Oracle, 3M, etc, but I've really never seen any startups.

Reading

• Actually mentioned by wired in this month's issue [where they rate the top 40 tech areas in the world] they've got tons of VC going in there right now, although I haven't seen much development with my own eyes, I believe its there. Plus there's the awesome Reading Festival which featured Metallica two years ago

But do what you want, I could be wrong - Tyler Durton

Ireland - Hey, they speak English, anyway...

First comment I must make to someone that is intent on moving overseas to work - whatever you will make, it won't be as much as if you were in the States. Unless you're working for some multi-global-conglomerate company who needs people more than they do money, stay in the US and make cash. Now that that's out of the way...

Ireland seems like one of those overseas places that is booming, because:

a) it's close to the States (roughly - you can't walk, but you know what I mean)
b) they speak English over here
c) it's in the EU
d) the government is giving HUGE tax breaks to businesses in order to get them over here.

Java/C++ people in Dublin are getting the most attention, as there are a lot of companies with big plans but no people to carry them out. Everyone from Dell to Micro$oft to Intel are looking for people who know how to do IT, and the government is finally catching up to the demand. They recently lowered the bar for US citizens coming over to Ireland, and made it much easier to get work authorization (see here [entemp.ie] and here [entemp.ie] for government info - I like the part about being an 'IT Specialist' - heh). One company is now considering delaying their major construction and expansion of their chip plant because they can't find enough people to work there.

The country is broken up into two parts, it seems: Dublin and everywhere else. Dublin is like a medium-to-large sized town in the States, with a good social life and clubbing, nice and friendly people (not like New York, more like, um... Chicago! Go Cubs!), and some of the most beautiful countryside you'll see around.

I'll stop rambling: here's some more links.

Move to Ireland [movetoireland.com] - a site on what you should do to move; very helpful.
IrishJobs [irishjobs.ie] - one of a number of job sites for the burgeoning working populace (like you).
Ireland Department of Foreign Affairs [irlgov.ie] - another government website, good links.

And yes - I moved over here, and it's pretty cool. The only drawbacks are that there's no Taco Bell (argh!) and no ESPN on the TV (AAARRRGGGHHH!!!). But hey, what the hell.

Good luck!

Will

Re:Bangalore , India !!! Look no further

I'm an American who spent 6 months living in Bangalore (stories on my site [lukemelia.com]) and overall, it was a great experience.

Lots of interesting people. It's a college town that draws smart young Indians from around the country and around the world. Bangalore has a population of 5.5 million, which I wouldn't call "small by Western standards".

The International Technology Park is an amazing site to see in India: a gorgeous glass building with mondo satellite uplink. Located not far away from the well-known guru Sai Baba's summer ashram.

I freelanced for North American clients over the net while I was there and lived like a king on 2 days work per week. My girlfriend and I had a 3 bedroom flat in the heart of the city (MG Road area) for US$230 a month. I withdrew rupees from my US account via the ATMs and it was really quite a kick feeling so wealthy there.

What sucked about Bangalore? The pollution. We lost power at least once a week. Phone line went out periodically and I had to go have tea with the local phone guy to get him to send someone out. My ISP referred another customer to me for technical support (I was there first Mac customer. This Japansese guy was there 2nd.) And I got typhoid fever. I was really sick for about 3 weeks. Yeah, that really sucked.

But anyway, Bangalore is a tech city that would give any North American raised geek an experience to to remember forever.

Several good options in Europe, but be informed

As as German living in the US, I have a bias towards Europe. When I return there, I will consider one of these options:

Berlin. Huge place, largest city in Europe. Tons of money are pouring into the place, even though right now it's still one big construction site. My feeling is it will become more and more the German show piece, so lots of things will be "firsts" in Berlin. Deutsche Telekom (most hated in Germany, btw) is planning flat-rate DSL rollout this summer, so eventually connectivity will be good. Personally, I'm biased towards large metropolitan cities (despite where I live right now!), and Berlin definitely fits the bill. Road infrastructure is good and getting even better with more city freeways. The surroundings are pretty good too, with lots of lakes and stuff to do, especially up north towards the Baltic.

However, I'm not sure I want to live in Germany again. For one, my wife is American and doesn't speak a lick of Deutsch. Besides, I'm sick of Germany for various reasons: Germans are very conservative overall--politically, socially, economically, financially, technologically. True, lots of tech came out of Germany this century, but those were different times, when Germans were still adventurous. Now they're used to the good life and don't want to jeopardize it with any "risky business". Most bright and open minds have left for the US long ago.

Also, Germans can be incredibly rude, especially in the service industries. I've never been treated with more indifference and contempt than in German shops and restaurants. And that at hourly wages many times more than in the US, where you get better service regardless.

Add to that a strong dose of arrogance. Germans still think of their country as the leading edge in all the areas that made it great, completely ignoring that times have changed and the world has moved on. While they certainly haven't missed the train yet, they need to wake up and smell the coffee--and I'm not sure they're capable of that anymore.

Ireland. Seems to be really booming in the IT area. Life should be a lot cheaper than in most of Europe, though I'm sure that'll change. Language is English (well, arguably anyway), and the people are reportedly very friendly, especially after being lubricated with some ale. However, the weather is reputed to be bad a lot of the time. It's also pretty far from the Continent. I'd be interested to know how long it takes to get to the mainland, and at what cost.

Spain. One of the cheapest European countries, except for telecom. Friendly people, great weather most of the time. After living in Australia and the southern US, I'm not sure I can return to cold climates again, so Spain is a strong favorite there. The language is a problem since my Spanish is worse than my Swahili, and I don't speak Swahili. I don't know how far English will get you in Spain either. But I'm willing to learn, so that should count for something .

Amsterdam. It's on the Continent, so there's easy access to everywhere. Everybody speaks English, and good English at that. It's quite a high-tech city from what I hear, so that's a plus.

Other than these options, I can't think of anything else. Eastern Europe won't be an option for at least another decade, their infrastructure simply sucks.

Americans looking at Europe should keep the following things in mind in general. They're not show stoppers, but they can be very irritating in day-to-day life.

-cost of gas. Europe sucks the blood out of you there. Filling up a mid-size sedan runs about $50. On the flip side, there's a plethora of public transportation, and you don't need a car as much as in the US, but it depends on where you live. If you're used to the US lifestyle of two cars no matter what, that can get pretty expensive.

-cost of housing. Rents are high, houses cost even more. I only know about Germany, but I assume things are similar everythere. Most houses in Germany start at $400,000 or so and go up, up, up. There's really no equivalent of the small three bedroom suburban house for $100,000. Properties are really expensive ($150 a square meter in many places, do the math for acres), often running almost as much as the house. Therefore people build big expensive houses to make it worthwhile. Get ready to pay for the rest of your life (and maybe your children's lives) for your house.

-communications. Most European telephone companies were only recently privatised, and they're still dragging their feet. They're simply used to monopoly status and price their services accordingly. In most places even local calls are metered, so staying online with your ISP will cost you a bunch. The ISP costs themselves are comparable to the US, the real killer are the phone company charges. Downloading a Linux distribution will probably cost you more than buying the boxed version. However, it's a fast-paced field and a lot of competition is arriving. In many countries DSL is starting to arrive, and along with it flat rate Internet access. With respect to DSL, I don't think Europe is far behind the US, where it's still impossible to get DSL in most places and will be for the next 5 to 10 years.

-culture. Americans are used to travel all over the US and still remain within their cultural context: same language, same politics, same restaurants, same TV and media. Travel that much in Europe, and your head will spin. No language is truly common to all of Europe (though English is the official language of the EU). No TV is common, you have to adjust to what's available in each country; and while people on the street might speak some English, the evening news most certainly will be in the local language. Magazines and newspapers differ widely, too, though you will find many international ones also. People's lifestyles and attitudes differ incredibly, and you can make no safe assumptions except with time and experience. Don't forget, these are still independent countries, proud of their differences and heritage. In the US we can all make a joke about the South and rednecks and all, safe in the knowledge that we're all Americans after all. In Europe, make a joke about another European nation and you're liable to get your head bashed in if the wrong people stand around.

All in all, you can live quite nicely in Europe--300 million people do it every day and wouldn't be anywhere else. But be prepared for a serious culture shock for the first few months. I know of a lot of people who went through serious depression until they got used to the place. Eventually most people settle in and like it a whole lot.

Uwe Wolfgang Radu

London is too damn expensive, Paris is fine

I'm offered a job in London that would more than double my salary in Paris .. and I would'nt be much better off considering taxes and cost of living. London is probably the most expensive city in city in the world, all considered. Housing is more expensive than NYC or the Valley, maybe just slightly less so than Tokyo or Hong Kong, and then you have a crappy weather (rain, rain, rain ...), and on top of that goods are very expensive. I hear though that with a good tax advisor you can save a bundle, but the legality of it is doubtful, somehow.
Paris has not so bad taxes compared to the rest of Europe. Actually, if you have kids you'll probably end up paying less income taxes than anywhere in western Europe.
We have semi working ADSL (ok pricing, not very reliable and some tech. problems though), working cable connectivity in some areas (but with upload limitations that may make it extremely expensive but for the casual surfer).
Also the Telecom industry is being forcefully opened -- the telecom regulation authority is making quite a good job of breaking the existing monopoly.
The city life is getting better (10 years ago it was sad) with some good stuff happening, and there's a trend to make it more environment friendly (less cars).
The weather is balanced, not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, not too much rain (that's, compared to London or Amsterdam!).
It's not as crowded as London or NYC. Crime is rather low.
No drinking age (I would be extremely surprised if a 13 y.o. was denied buying a beer). Age of consent, 15. No fscking moron telling you what's good or bad (that's compared to the US). If you're into haschisch, it's not that great, still not yet liberated (despite having a few ministers in office publicly claiming to smoke or having smoked), personally I don't like it anyway. No stupid political sex scandals as in the UK, as nobody gives a fuck.
Lots of easy female US tourists ;) LOL
Good food. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. Good cheap wine. Bad cheap beer.
Doing business with french people is strange at times. I mostly work with foreigners, personally.
It's not absolutely great, but it's really ok.

Re:Several good options in Europe, but be informed

Hmmm... As a Brit, I find Germans far less conservative than
Americans. Well, these things are pretty hard to be objective about,
I guess. Plusses for Berlin in my experience:

• Superb public transport. I can drive, but I prefer not to have
  to.
  
  
• Really active and exciting social scene. Lots of big, fun events.
  Music is truly superb, for classical (Simon Rattle conducts the Berlin
  Philharmonic), ethnic/world and techno (perhaps the techno capital of
  the world?). Germans value their free time highly, this makes a big
  difference to ones social life.
  
  
• I'm living in Boston, so the weather would be an improvement for
  me...
  
  
• Surprisingly, there is overcapacity in housing at the moment in
  Berlin, so accomodation is pretty cheap at the moment, despite the
  influx of bureaucrats. This cannot last, though.
  
  
• Politically liberal, good privacy safeguards in law. Most
  varieties of pilitical activism are healthier in Germany than in US,
  libertarianism being the notable exception. Germans seem more willing
  to embrace different lifestyles than Americans (and far, far more
  likely than Brits...).
  
• Beer is wonderful, second only to Yorkshire, UK ;->
  

And some minusses:

• Germany is pretty sophisticated tech-wise by European standards,
  but it dfinitely lags behind US. Telecoms is the big exception:
  mobile phones are more common and cheaper than in the US, ISDN has
  been well-priced for a long-time, so is widely used, and DSL is
  becoming available, with probably better penetration in the short-term
  than in the US.
  
  
• The academic system in Germany does very well by a small
  proportion of the people who pass through, and pretty much doesn't
  work for the rest. Undergraduate teaching typically takes the form of
  impressively qualified but distant professors giving lectures to huge
  theatres of undergraduates, with almost no opportunity for personal
  contact. Though I'm not all that impressed by the US higher education
  system, I think it probably has the edge on the German one for the
  bulk of people who pass through it.
  
  
• Learning German is a hurdle...