Techie Friendly Towns, Worldwide? 250
banditski asks: "A while back, there was an Ask Slashdot forum about Geek-Friendly cities. Invariably, most of them were in the U.S. Now, I'm finishing school in a month or so, and I'm looking to move abroad and see what else is out there before I settle down into a nice comfy niche. My question is this: In which 'foreign' cities (as seen from North America) is there a lot of Internet/IT action taking place? And how well could a predominately English speaking person adapt to living and working in these cities?" On a related note, you might want to check a slightly related article, aptly titled 'Good' Countries for Geeks.
Calgary (Score:4)
Last stat I heard, over 65% of the population had internet access. Lots of good techie places to work in Calgary to, JAWS [jawstech.com] (encryption company), there is an MS office, lots of good places. City is growing too, up by 12k or so just last year..
Problem is the taxes - ~40% of your pay is taxed
Philadelphia! (Score:1)
Before anyone says "Silicon Valley"... (Score:1)
It is nothing but an eclave of newcomer dot-commie yuppies who work 80 hours a week in trivial and worthless web crap. They make tons of money, which somehow is only enough to pay for a crummy studio appartment and an SUV. They drive around recklessly, endangering the lives of cyclists like me. There is no fucking culture here, just an endless expanse of strip malls, office buildings, or yuppie stores. Meanwhile, those who work in other jobs, say, janitors, have to work 2 jobs, become vegetarians, and live with more than one family to the house just to make ends meet. Avoid this place like the plague. It is, in the words of JWZ, Hell on Earth [jwz.org].
Brisbane - Queensland - Australia (Score:4)
Friendly people, smart people (not just I.T), very livable city with little polution and more Urban Sprawl than you can poke a stick at (we built outward rather than upward). All these things make Brisbane the best place for an I.T. professional!!!
Try Kabul, Lima, Baghdad, Cairo, Tehran or Ponyang (Score:1)
Re:Brisbane - Queensland - Australia (Score:1)
(Barbaq hangs his head in shame)
London and Amsterdam in Europe (Score:3)
Europe (Score:2)
For the more linguistic esotic areas, I know that the Copenhagen/Malmoe area is rising quickly, but it's harder for find make-money-fast startups there. Copenhagen also has good beer.
Berlin is also up and comming, they've got good beer as well.
Ovenovenovenovenoven (Score:1)
If anyone actually applies for work there, tell them Dave told you to. This will win you lots and lots and lots of points. Trust me, it'll be funny, you might not get it at first but itll be funny.
(Not so) Sunny Melbourne!!! (Score:1)
Here out in the suburbs it's great, and in Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane there is cable internet to most households, and before the end of the year there will be DSL.
Also if there ends up being a nuclear war Australia will probably be the only continent unaffected by the fallout.
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Laptop006 (RHCE: That means I know what I'm talking about! When talking about linux at least...)
Re:first p0st/penis bird/***TROLL ALERT*** (Score:1)
Playing the latter means you feed the knee-jerk trolls, fall into some of the intentional flame wars, and generally get a finger poked at you in the troll circles. No one is a universal expert, so all of the trusting look naive from time to time.
Playing the former means seldom replying, seldom discussing. Flaming on the least suspect of posts, and constantly bitching to oneself in the forums.
Posts like this only go to feed the paranoia.. Slashdot started out trusting, and I'd like to see it that way!
Some (if not most) of us were aware of the troll forum, and just let it be. It was hard to miss for the devotees of osm, TroLLaXoR (I never cap that right!), etc.. Please, leave it and the rest of them be!
From my own experience (Score:2)
- Tokyo
- Geneva
- Amsterdam
But this also depends on what you actually expect from such a city.The ones above are just ones where you can easily and cheaply get connected, either at home or in a cyber-cafe.
In Paris, in March/April, there is also lots of Internet-related-attractions/activities like in "la Villette" (also known as "La Cité des Sciences").
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Guildford, Surrey, England... (Score:4)
Guildford also has quite a lot of tech companies based there for a town of it's size (pop. roughly 130,000) - especially games companies - EA/Bullfrog, Lionhead, Mucky Foot, Criterion Studios, Fiendish Games [fiendishgames.com] (The company I work for), KUJU Entertainment, Glass Ghost, etc..
It's main downside is that it's quite expensive - on the whole you'll be paying pretty close to London prices on most things. Speaking of London, though, it's only about 40 miles away, and it takes half an hour on the traing to get from Guildford to Waterloo station, and during the day trains are every 15 minutes...
I quite like living here - it's not the best place on earth, but I've got my cable modem, so I'm happy.
cheers,
Tim
P.S. And Guildford Computers is a great place to pick up old cheap bits of computer hardware - Just great if you're trying to put web terminals in every room of your house...
Step up to Stockholm! (Score:1)
Melbourne - here's some links (Score:3)
At the start of last year, I moved across the Tasman, to Melbourne. Melbourne is just a really nice place to live - great culture, night life, and the job scene seems to be going strongly.
I've found it pretty easy to settle in here, and meet people. There is always something to do. As for jobs.. try these sites:
IT Jobs site by Fairfax [fairfax.com.au]
Seek [seek.com.au]
Monster [monster.com.au]
As for other sites of interest, check out:
Immigration site [immi.gov.au]
Autralian Taxation Office [ato.gov.au]
Domain [domain.com.au] a great place to search for share accomodation
The Age newspaper [theage.com.au]
Umm.. I don't have links for what's on around the city, but some great stuff happens, apart from the good club scene - there's the formula 1 grand prix, if you like noisy loud things that go fast, moonlight cinema is a good thing in summer - outdoor movies. It's just really kind of relaxing and nice.
Melbourne is just really livable and has a good public transport system Victrip [victrip.com.au]
Hope this helps.. and don't forget, I'm a kiwi saying this about Melbourne
Scandinavia - Take your choice (Score:3)
I have done some travelling in Europe for business, and gotten to know a little bit about most of the countries.
All of the scandinavian countries are great places to live, and really oriented to high tech.
The difference is in economy of scale. The American perspective is way too big, actually. Here, there are a zillion small companies that are a riot to develop for, because they aren't so big. Then, when you have come up with something really cool, use your American connections to market it stateside.
Here is the hard part - language and work permits. Generally, they are so hard up for tech types that you can make deals to circumvent these problems. However, I would STRONGLY urge you to learn the language of your target country. You don't have to speak it perfectly (I speak Norwegian with a John Wayne accent), whatever effort you make will be greatly appreciated. Plus, we spend all of our time learning C, PERL, etc., why not hook up with a whole new group of people?
Lykke til videre! (Good luck with your plans)
Zurich (Score:2)
If you're interested in seeing Europe, Zurich is 30 minutes from Germany, 1 hour from France, 1 hour from Austria, 2.5 hours from Italy and 45 minutes from Lichtenstein. It also doesn't hurt
that it's only half an hour some skiing.
The cost of living here is pretty high, but the
pay is higher too.
Ciao,
Mike
Bangalore , India !!! Look no further (Score:2)
Its not without the problems other Indian cities face esp. support infrastructure, public transport etc., but in terms of human potential, IT saviness etc., this place should stand out
If you are looking for GEEK power, this place is fairly up to the mark, what with most of the american big boys having a presence in some form and manner.. (I hate to admit but most of them send over their maintenance tasks here...) implying the geeks are around.. its a great place to be.
Let me continue to sell this place..
The main selling point for a place in India is the weather.. its brilliant.. I mean I have lived in Bangalore all my life
The night life is not as great as any of the western cities but you have a good crowd the the pubs (highest number in India I would imagine...), the people are very nice.. and its a fun place.
So thats some info for the people here who might be interested in knowing about other places...
Cheers,
-/ramas
Re:(Not so) Sunny Melbourne!!! (Score:2)
But, other than that and a few minor other impasses of freedom, I'm sure it's a great place! (No, that last bit wasn't intended to be sarcastic.)
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seumas.com
Re:Bangalore , India !!! Look no further (Score:2)
Apparently, if L.A. was bad, smog-wise, it looked like a freaking EPA dream-land compared to the quality of air in India (not certain what part he visited).
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seumas.com
Re:Melbourne - here's some links (Score:1)
Bigpond Advance (Telstra) [bigpond.com] and
Optus [slashdot.org]
Optusis only new and therefore only in some areas, but there's a price war on. Getting Bigpond advance insalled costs about $100, and it's $65 per month - unlimited download BUT the spead has been software capped to 400kbps as for Optus.. I don't know the prices etc, but I have hard reports of higher speeds than those of Telstra BPA so far..
Jamaica is an interesting choice. (Score:1)
The Bad news is that crime rates are high and the government kinda sucks.
The good news is that the network is starting to open up and 2 new companies have been licensed to do Cellular telephones locally. An ISP has been licensed to provide Island wide, wireless, digital, cable TV. In 3 years this will be a 4th phone company and a huge ISP.
We are a lot behind the curve but I think it's more fun to build the infrastructure than to go work in an established market. Around here we have 2/3 the residential telephones needed, we have a dozen ISPs that mostly suck, we have everything basically just starting out.
The downside of building infrastructure now is that we don't have affordable residential DSL or Cable modems yet. The upside is that we have nice scenery, more pretty girls per acre than anywhere else and we actually produce almost as much music as the US ( We have ~ 1/100 the population
Try Chicago (Score:1)
The Chicagoland area is positively sprouting positions for technical workers. They're one of the fastest growing VC areas outside of Silicon Valley. There's a a huge technical corridor stretching from Joliet nearly to the Illinois/Wisconsin border.
Not to mention that Chicago's NAP sees more traffic coming through than ANYWHERE else on the planet.
Cablemodem and DSL services are emerging in the area (Ye God! There's so many DSL companies advertising out here now it's disgusting!) For cable, look at AT&T [att.com], MediaOne [mediaone.net], and @Home [home.com]. For listings of DSL providers, just hit 2Wire.com [2wire.com]
How much you make depends on what you know. Decent wages for a tech support drone at an ISP is about $9-11(USC) an hour. Some positions down at the law firms downtown pay as much as $40K a year for people with basic techsup skills, some Unix experience, and some network experience.
Housing can be anywhere between $500-900 for a 1 bedroom apartment. Between $750-1200 for a 2 bedroom. (Not sure for 3.)
Depending on how far out you live, and what neighborhoods, actually buying a house may be cheaper. In Berwyn, the median price of a house is about $140K (some condos go for around $50K).
Further south in Downer's Grove/Darien, housing is in the $180-200K range, with condos going for between $60-100K.
If you live out further west in areas like Plainfield (starting to build up), housing starts around $120K and goes up from there.
The only major hassle in Chicago is the traffic. They have 5 major tollways, and 4 major freeways. And right now, they're working on most of them (hopefully to be done by the end of this year). For night-shift workers, this isn't too bad. For 9-5'ers and evening workers, it can be a big hassle.
Also, parking downtown is disgustingly expensive. Luckily there's a decent rail system in Chicago with several major lines (IIRC all of them are now open nearly 24/7).
There's two major airports for commuting (O'Hare and Midway). Midway is undergoing major construction right now to add a huge parking structure, and additional terminals.
Hope this helps.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Re:Bangalore , India !!! Look no further (Score:1)
Internet access is nowhere near as great as in UK/Japan but its fine if you work in a decent place like http://www.intltechpark.com
ciao
-/r
Re:Scandinavia - Take your choice (Score:1)
yeah right! (Score:1)
i do get alone fine there is tonnes of tekkie stuff but i would say we do not need to start the Mc donalds, run every half hour. im happy with my coffee.
Re:Europe (Score:1)
and I guess you can adapt to british english quite easily.
Yeah, you can adapt to it, but wether or not you can stand it may be another issue altogether. I spent a week in England on a school trip, on the ferry from france to england, there were periodic announcments over the PA, we all thought it was rather hillarious that that particular person spoke like "those people on monty python"...we quickly found out everyone speaks like that, and if you can't stand MP, England/London may not be your pot of tea. : )
Other than that, we were able to find several internet cafes in downtown London, and our (4 star) hotel even had free internet access.
Hadlock
What do you like? (Score:2)
I was born, raised and am currently living in Canada, and have lived in the US, Australia and France for extended time and the UK and Germany for short periods of time. I would recommend any one of these countries, each of them has a slighty different culture and history, and any one can be a great expenence.
After living in Calgary for most of my life the 30c temperatures of Perth and Sydney in Australia was great, although Germany is also amazing.
If you want to make money stay in the US, even after living in five other countries I believe it is a great place dispite what people might say. I choose to come back to Canada to start a family near my family, but I could have stayed in, and have visited many of these countries.
Good luck
Great Place To Live: Toronto (Score:2)
So here goes nothing:
Here's a great info page [toronto.com] about Toronto. (An exerpt: "Toronto has nine months of winter and three months of poor skating -- at least that's what it feels like.")
Seriously, though: our winters will put hair on your chest, but the great summers make up for them!
Here's the City of Toronto's official web site [toronto.on.ca].
<Dons flameproof suit>
Here's another great link [dailyrotten.com] to go along with the last two.
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Isar Valley (Score:1)
Lots in Asia (Score:2)
The following cities in asia are ultra techie:
Bangalore, India: The Silicon Valley of India, huge computer industry and very western compared to the rest of india. English is the first language for most tech workers in India.
Singapore: Clean, efficient, wired city. English is the first language. The state religion is capitalism and anyone found spitting gum on the sidewalk will be publically flogged.
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: The government is spending billions on fibre connections.
Tokyo: Bladerunner, Otaku, PS2 what more needs to be said?
Re:Before anyone says "Silicon Valley"... (Score:1)
Re:Melbourne - here's some links (Score:1)
I used to live in Wellington, New Zealand. And that's a nice city - but small, only 400K.
I wouldn't say it's incredible, but Wellington's been getting easier to live in in the last couple of years since Saturn [saturn.co.nz]'s covered most of it with a decent cable network.
Also I think WETA [wetafx.co.nz] has been taking on some people since they began work on all the Lord of the Rings [lordoftherings.com] movie effects. You'd normally have to be really well qualified and slightly lucky to get into it though.
FOr normal IT industry stuff I'd have to agree. I know a lot of people in NZ who've migrated to Australia for interesting IT work, and Melbourne seems to be quite popular.
Re:London and Amsterdam in Europe (Score:3)
Londoners, OTOH, might argue as to whether Americans can speak English:)
Cambridge UK (Score:3)
Cambridge UK is the central point for high tech R&D in England (Reading is more of an commercial IT type area, and LondonCity is more financial) - with a lot of biotech and software firms, including a number of web based start ups. AT&T and Microsoft have R&D centres here.
Good points:
- it's a student town, so there are lots of pubs, and lots of people from different places, so a sort of international melting pot community.
- in the university environment, there are a lots of lectures, classes and interesting things to do if you are in the student/graduate social scene.
- job wise, there's a shortage of engineering supply, and lots of software work, you can walk out of a job one day and pick up another one the next day.
- close to the excitement of London, only 50mins by train into central London for museums, nightlife and everything else, London is one of the great cities you need to experience.
- close to major airports such as Stansted, and Heathrow/London, making it cheap and easy to take off on holidays around Europe, including discount operators such as Go, Easyjet and Ryanair.
- Cambridge university is on the academic tour circuit, so there are lectures by and visits by well known 'stars'.
- the pound is strong, so being paid in pounds sterling is good.
- its a cycle town, so you can get around by bicycle easily and cheaply, plus it's also semi-rural, so you can escape into the surrounding countryside in several minutes.
- a reasonably civil and cultured community: arts theatres, arts cinemas, reasonably good restaurants, museums, sports activities, etc.
- more of a community and friendly rural town feel than of a busy carbon-monoxide drenched city (i.e. the feeling of London or Oxford).
Bad points:
- traffic is bad, trying to drive around in during peak hour, or finding parking spots at any time, can be problematic.
- english weather is often dreary and bland.
- the cost of living is relatively high compared to the average salary that people earn.
- british reservedness and class attitudes, which are still somewhat prevalent.
- in technology/engineering/commercial terms, the practices are behind the united states and australia (in my experiences so far) - it is no match for silicon valley.
- high rents and living costs, and housing shortage in general - accomodation is impossible to find at times.
I've been here for 2.5 years now - I have worked, travelled, studied, attended university formal functions, made friends in the university, spent time in London, hung around coffee houses, devoured books in the many book stores, entertained friends as visitors and a lot more. I only wish that the weather was better.
If your career/job skills match the speciality of the area (high tech R&D), then Cambridge can be a good base for several years of work, travel and life.
Re:Before anyone says "Silicon Valley"... (Score:1)
On the other hand, you're right about most of the environment... it's got little or no history/culture and is one continuous, massive suburbia. Fortunately, SF and Berkeley are close...
or most European capitals (Score:2)
Ennis, Co Clare Ireland (Score:1)
Living overseas (Score:1)
as far as speaking the language goes, it depends on your employer and your job. back office developers don't have to speak the language all that well, but if you're going to be sent out to do pre-sales, or CeBIT, you're going to need some proficiency.
recently some countries have changed their work visa requirements. in france it became official in december, 1998. you get a fast track visa if you're a high tech engineer, it takes less than two months. this situation is becoming more and more common; talk to the consular offices of the countries you want to go to.
as far as where to live, dublin is a nice place, so is sydney, and don't forget scandinavia. whats important to you? being near the ocean? the mountains? mass transit? options not already mentioned include santiago, buenos aires, wellington, and taipei.
you just might find you never want to go home.
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Dublin and New Zealand (Score:1)
I'm working on my second job... not because I didn't like the first place I worked at, but the opportunity just came up out of the blue, and the offer was too good to pass up. Getting here (work visa-wise) is easy if you're a student (I enrolled in a cheap online course to get my student status), but a company can get a Visa for you with fairly little hassle. And I've heard they're trying to make it even easier due to the labor shortage.
Pay is good, though cost of living's kind of high. But you can golf all year round! And the culture here is great - great music, beer and of course plenty of Red Bull.
New Zealand's quite brilliant too, from what I've heard (got some family there)... pay's super... but it's a bit far, eh?
It's not where you want to go... (Score:3)
Of the western countries that have foreigner friendly immigration services three clearly stand out: Canada, Australia, New Zealand. All three have policies that with a bit of luck will allow you to work there for a while and even settle. Their governments run various programmes to attract foreign individuals with the right skill sets. Canada is probably the most prominent of the three so that's where I'm heading in September ;). All of them will have a requirement that you have some experience in your field prior to your work permit application. Usually they ask for two or three years.
Also with some luck you may get to South Africa. If you feel you are open minded enough you should try some Central Europe countries. Hungary, Poland and Chech Republic are the most developed of the lot and their major cities will have quite a few techie jobs. Their immigration policies are now in place but at least in Poland it's not a problem to get a permit as long as you have some sensible qualifications. The employers will be quite enthusiastic towards English speaking foreigners there as well so you'll probably feel quite welcome.
As for Asia I don't know much about it but I heard Taiwan is seeking English speaking foreigners to work for their companies but it's not something I could confirm. Don't know about the rest of Asia though.
So that's it. As you can see there isn't that many choices you have. Being an American if you have no or little work experience you can rule out pretty much all of EU straight away, unfortunately. They won't let you in. Consider Canada, Oz or New Zealand or perhaps Central Europe. Sorry about this pragmatic tone but despite all the media blabbing about global workforce the governments are still placing awkward barriers even for highly skilled people. This is something you will have to wrestle with. Good luck with your endavour.
Re:Scandinavia - Take your choice (Score:1)
Here in Denmark almost everybody speak english. And at least they speak it a lot better than the newcomers speak danish. (This is especially true in the high tech/university environment.) I have seen a lot of englishspeaking people not learning much danish, as everything worked out just fine from day one.
Up to you to judge whether or not that's a bad thing.
Re:Great Place To Live: Toronto (Score:1)
fee for certain amount of local call hours.
Woking, Surrey, England :) (Score:1)
I work quite close to you then, there's a lot of computing work available in the area to be found. As EnglishTim says it is quite a pricy area to live in, but no more so than London, and the air is definitely a bit cleaner... my personal favourite is how London is always 2 degrees hotter than the surrounding areas :)
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Jon E. Erikson
South-Africa, (Score:2)
Two cities of reall interest:
Johannesburg, Host too two sepperate LUG's one for Linux Proffessionals with about a $100 one-time joining fee, and the other a standard run-of-the-mill free-for-all-lug with about 500 members. Severall Major IT companies in the City and surrounding towns including branches of Mecer, IBM and Microsoft (the one that got bombed) bringing us to the con, the highest crime-rate in the world, a city for martial-artsy adventurous techies.
Pretoria:
Home of the 3rd largest LUG, crime-rate extremely low (leading to Johburgers calling it boring). Politticall and live/gothic music capitall of the country. Also home to the largest university outside of America famous for having "higher standards than any european university". Birthplace of programs like mcedit and cd-tux. The city plays host to branches of severall other large IT firms including Mustek, Compaq and Amiga. This is also where you will find the largest engineering firms, developement companies ISP's et all.
Re:Scandinavia - Take your choice (Score:1)
Stockholm (Score:2)
I was very suprised when visiting New York last week. Noone (I mean hardly anyone) talked in a
mobile telephone. In stockholm (and all of Scandinavia) about 25% of the people walking on the streets are talking in a phone. (Earsdropping on the bus is fun).
Besides the wireless broadband is hot (most appartments are offered some type of >512 Kbaud connection for about $25 a month.)
Helsinki, Finland (Linus' U, Nokia) (Score:2)
I could talk about University of Helsinki [helsinki.fi]'s CS dep. [helsinki.fi] as well, but I won't. It seems that the Technical University [www.hut.fi] would be a better place for studies.
Whatever is said of Stockholm, Oslo or Copenhagen, also applies to Helsinki - except for difficulty of the local language, which you don't have to learn if you stay just one year or so, since everybody really talks some english, most people fluently.
Want more of an experience? Choose Reykjavik, Iceland. That's where I'm going to go one of these days.
Amsterdam (Score:2)
One of the things to consider is a workpermit and a residency permit. You can't just pick up your stuff and move to Amsterdam (or any other European city). You need either a residency permit (which will include a workpermit), or a workpermit (which will eventually include a residency permit).
You get a residency permit by either marrying or living with a dutch partner. After a few months you get your permit which includes a valid workpermit for any job you want to do.
You get a workpermit by applying for a joboffer that a company has open (check out all major companies like cisco, sun, hp, and so on). The workpermit you get then is linked to that company, and if you get fired you also loose your residency permit. So find yourself a girlfriend asap
And last but not least, Amsterdam is just a very nice and friendly city
Cor
jobs for foreigners in the Netherlands (Score:3)
//rdj
P.S. No, I don't know what companies are hiring.
Soon corridor will extend south to U of I (Score:1)
So, while it's not a "fabulous jobs every you look!" situation *today*, keep your eye on the Champaign-Urbana area over the next few years. The cost of living here is still very decent, there's a great technical university right next door, and I think the area is finally poised for some heavy tech business growth. Chicago is just 2-3 hours north (depending on how fast you drive :-) ), and most of that trip can be spent on one highway which has farmland on either side nearly the entire way north -- meaning that if traffic between Chicago and CU starts to increase, the highway can easily be widened to accommodate. So travel between Chicago and CU should remain convenient as well.
Anyway, sorry if I'm sounding like a Chamber of Commerce. :-) Keep an eye on Champaign-Urbana is all I'm saying.
ChicagoFan
Did I mention SSH and F-Secure? (Score:2)
SSH [www.ssh.fi] Tatu Ylönen
F-Secure [f-secure.com] Half of my friends work there (suckah's
It's not the end of the list but those are some cool things born here. As for cool geek stuff from Finland, you might want to check out Oulu as well - would 'IRC' ring a bell?
Re:London and Amsterdam in Europe (Score:1)
However, to be different, Hull in the North of England is unique in Britain in having its own telecommunications provider which give cheap and fast 'net access years before the rest of the country. It used to be (and still is) a shipping city so I have know idea what IT work is available up there, but I know there is a fair bit. Plus, you're near roads, airports, etc.
1 more thing... (Score:1)
//rdj
Re:Europe (Score:1)
UK/Eire (Score:1)
+ the atmosphere is without compare.
ALso london is pretty good, as is Cambridge. Of course, all english speaking but London is one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world and there's something for everyone here.
Netherlands/EU (Score:2)
I came from Australia and have been here 9 months. I prefer here to working in a native-English speaking country because there is so much more culture. However you should do your own research on the culture in the places you're considering (eg the Dutch live on meetings :)..
The other great thing about .nl is that grog is cheap (and there's no minimum drinking age - i was at my girfriends old school last night for her bro's graduation and they were giving beers to the (15yo) kids), geek toys are amongst the cheapest in EU, and all the cities are very compact so dont require cars to get around.
Anyway, as I said - do your own research on the culture in the various countries, but do keep .nl in mind as it is a great place to experience.
Umm how about just be hermits? (Score:1)
Well actually what i want to say is why even ask? Concidering how the internet have developed you can work pretty much anywhere if you have the right job. Alan Cox live in Swansea Wales. Used to be quite a remote place and still is compaired to other bigger towns. Incidentally that hermitish friend of mine is starting at Swansea University this comming school year.
At anyrate I would suggest people concidering a job not concider what other people think of it as a geek city. Afterall lots of the same people means in some case napster over loaded lines and pubs that are just too full.
Man.. i read reread that
Trinidad & Tobago? (Score:2)
I'm not sure what that country's attitude is towards foreign tech workers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they encouraged outside brains helping their economy. Trinidad is the last island in the Caribbean chain, and its economy was devastated after big oil companies (Texaco) drained its resources in the late 70s without regard to the country's long-term well-being. In my view, when a skilled CS or other tech worker goes into such a country, she is performing a service to that country similar to a volunteer in the Peace Corps.
Unfortunately, I can envision some problems with living/working in such a country. Your salary, unadjusted for cost of living, will be much lower than in the US. However, you can live quite comfortably in Trinidad on a significantly lower budget (maybe 20-50% less than in the US?). At the same time, you are surrounded by economic squalor. I can see how this would be depressing. Another problem would be interacting with the government. It is common knowledge in Trinidad that to get any kind of interaction with government inspectors, officials, etc, involves bribing your way into a permit, contract, etc. For instance, if you get pulled over for speeding, you take the cop down to the local rum shop for a few beers. Literally. In fact, corrupt government officials are largely responsible for the decay of Trinidad's economy and infrastructure. If you don't want to play by this country's dirty rules, it might not be the place for you. On the other hand, one might view this as an philanthropic opportunity: it's probably much easier for one person, company or organization to change the political or economic climate of a nation such as Trinidad (pop: ~1.5 million) than it is to become influential in a North American or European country.
I wouldn't be surprised if these comments apply to other small countries as well? Just some thoughts...
Barcelona (Score:1)
Tokyo (Score:1)
IT (Score:1)
UK (Score:1)
Of course with any foreign country the hard part is probably getting a work visa. Most have laws that say something like companies can only hire foreigners if there is no "local" who can do the job.
vienna, austria. (Score:1)
greetings from vienna.
mond.
Re:Europe (Score:2)
Re:Guildford, Surrey, England... (Score:2)
London _is_ one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, but as an IT professional, you can afford it. Or you can live a bit further out if you can handle the commute. I work with a guy who lives on a farm with 40 acres; takes him about an hour each way to commute.
Forget owning a car unless you have a _big_ selection of MP3's to listen to as you're stuck in traffic.
Socially, there's an active London Linux group, lots of cybercafes (ranging from basic surf & email to massive Quake fragathon setups), London also has one of the most kicking club scenes out. Pretty much everything is catered for, from rawk to hardcore techno. And there's _loads_ of really nice pubs, ranging from winebars to country pubs. You can also go to just about any sort of restaurant, too, and the curry in Brick Lane is nothing less than excellent.
And the beer is always decent; think microbrewery quality...
Oh, yeah, and on Thursday nights, there is _always_ a bunch of Essex girls looking for a bit of company.... >;)
Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
Avoid university towns (Score:2)
Avoid tech towns with a low/medium ratio of universities/students to jobs. Salaries will be signifigantly deflated below norms because of the college students that are desperate for a quick buck, and don't care/don't know what the going rates for their skills are elsewhere.
This isn't an issue with major centers, but most people know that SF is a good tech center, I'm assuming that the article is looking for worldwide/smaller/non-obvious places.
On the up side, university towns have lots of "real" women and quality bars, so, YMMV. I'd rather have more $ to buy car toys with :).
Kudos
Re:Guildford, Surrey, England... (Score:4)
Bracknell
- While considered by many to be a shite place to live, you are right next to many of the most famous places around [Ascot, landed gentry, need I say more?] and you get to work in the same town as the Met[eorogical] Office. What's so great about them? Well they've got one of the fastest Computers around, a Cray T3E, which cranks out weather information for all around the world. 90% accurate or some such. It's just a shame that england's weather is inherently unpredicatable. Bracknell's other claim to fame is the amount of Big tech companies there, Sun, Oracle, 3M, etc, but I've really never seen any startups.
ReadingBut do what you want, I could be wrong - Tyler Durton
Barbados a bad idea (Score:2)
There are a lot of reasons to live in Barbados, but if access to high-tech IT is your goal, keep looking.
There is a lot of encouragement for the national adoption of information technology. Considerable effort being put into encouraging early adoption in schools. There is even a policy to allow computer hardware and software to land duty-free, so as to keep the cost down and allow wider acceptance. However, the costs are still high enough that you won't want to purchase hardware locally if it can be avoided.
Bandwidth is another matter. Point-to-point local telephone is flat-rate, so there is no per-minute charge for dialling an ISP. But the telco has a terrible reputation for customer service. They are also the LD carrier, and the top-level ISP as well. Say "Monopoly". And compared to the USA, the bandwidth is relatively expensive, and the QOS is poor and spotty. Only limited services are available (ADSL only now being tested). To nail up an internet connection of (say) 128kbps would cost you thousands of dollars each month for private use only. To be able to re-sell the bandwidth will cost several times more.
Local employers are often thick-headed and hide-bound. If you send the boss an e-mail on the LAN, he is likely to call you on the phone, tell you to print a copy, and bring it to his office. Unless you work for a company that is directly related to the IT industry, chances are they are computer-illiterate. Even some of the companies that are in the IT field are so incompitent I refuse to use their services.
As for the entire issue of "Online Rights", well, it has not to my knowledge been tested even in the tinyest way. But I have a feeling that the local ISPs would rush to terminate your service if there was even the smallest suggestion that you were being a naughty boy! So I don't think you will be able to set up an off-shore data haven to make copies of DeCSS available to the world.
As I said, there is considerable interest for national adoption of IT, and I hope that we can rapidly catch up in that regard, but as of today, I would have to say that Barbados was not an ideal spot.
But as I said, there are lots of other reasons to live here, and it's a great place to visit!
Change of pace - Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada (Score:2)
For those of you looking for a change of pace, try Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - great beer, unlimited DSL for $40 bucks a month, good tech sector, low, low, low cost of living, it's actually possible to buy a house, and you're only three or four hours from some of the most beautiful scenery (and some of the best roads to race on) on the east cost, the Highlands of Cape Breton.. Plus, the women aren't bad either.
If you want > $70k CDN/year, you'll have to poke around, but the jobs are there if you're as good as you think you are. I can't overstate the cost and quality of life on the east coast. People are _nice_ to you. :)
Kudos
Hi tech towns (flamebait) (Score:2)
Bangalore - India (Score:2)
Ipswich (Score:2)
Ireland - Hey, they speak English, anyway... (Score:3)
Ireland seems like one of those overseas places that is booming, because:
a) it's close to the States (roughly - you can't walk, but you know what I mean)
b) they speak English over here
c) it's in the EU
d) the government is giving HUGE tax breaks to businesses in order to get them over here.
Java/C++ people in Dublin are getting the most attention, as there are a lot of companies with big plans but no people to carry them out. Everyone from Dell to Micro$oft to Intel are looking for people who know how to do IT, and the government is finally catching up to the demand. They recently lowered the bar for US citizens coming over to Ireland, and made it much easier to get work authorization (see here [entemp.ie] and here [entemp.ie] for government info - I like the part about being an 'IT Specialist' - heh). One company is now considering delaying their major construction and expansion of their chip plant because they can't find enough people to work there.
The country is broken up into two parts, it seems: Dublin and everywhere else. Dublin is like a medium-to-large sized town in the States, with a good social life and clubbing, nice and friendly people (not like New York, more like, um... Chicago! Go Cubs!), and some of the most beautiful countryside you'll see around.
I'll stop rambling: here's some more links.
Move to Ireland [movetoireland.com] - a site on what you should do to move; very helpful.
IrishJobs [irishjobs.ie] - one of a number of job sites for the burgeoning working populace (like you).
Ireland Department of Foreign Affairs [irlgov.ie] - another government website, good links.
And yes - I moved over here, and it's pretty cool. The only drawbacks are that there's no Taco Bell (argh!) and no ESPN on the TV (AAARRRGGGHHH!!!). But hey, what the hell.
Good luck!
Will
Re:Asia Pacific Destinations (Score:2)
Only problem with Vancouver is you're competing with a few thousand PhD people who ran over here from Hong Kong for the exact same reason - so it might be harder to find a job than you think. The bare minimum for good employment there is a post-grad degree (although, if you've got a BSc. Eng or CS, or a MCS you should have no problem). Our immigration laws are a lot more sane, although nobody wants to move to Saskatchewan, hehe.
Come on over to the east coast and get some non-americanized Canadian culture :).
Kudos!
Re:Bangalore , India !!! Look no further (Score:3)
Lots of interesting people. It's a college town that draws smart young Indians from around the country and around the world. Bangalore has a population of 5.5 million, which I wouldn't call "small by Western standards".
The International Technology Park is an amazing site to see in India: a gorgeous glass building with mondo satellite uplink. Located not far away from the well-known guru Sai Baba's summer ashram.
I freelanced for North American clients over the net while I was there and lived like a king on 2 days work per week. My girlfriend and I had a 3 bedroom flat in the heart of the city (MG Road area) for US$230 a month. I withdrew rupees from my US account via the ATMs and it was really quite a kick feeling so wealthy there.
What sucked about Bangalore? The pollution. We lost power at least once a week. Phone line went out periodically and I had to go have tea with the local phone guy to get him to send someone out. My ISP referred another customer to me for technical support (I was there first Mac customer. This Japansese guy was there 2nd.) And I got typhoid fever. I was really sick for about 3 weeks. Yeah, that really sucked.
But anyway, Bangalore is a tech city that would give any North American raised geek an experience to to remember forever.
Renting in Amsterdam (Score:2)
We called several estate agencies and the message was uniformly 'sorry, there just too much demand for too few places.'
The few places we did see were about the same price as one would pay in London.
Several good options in Europe, but be informed (Score:5)
Berlin. Huge place, largest city in Europe. Tons of money are pouring into the place, even though right now it's still one big construction site. My feeling is it will become more and more the German show piece, so lots of things will be "firsts" in Berlin. Deutsche Telekom (most hated in Germany, btw) is planning flat-rate DSL rollout this summer, so eventually connectivity will be good. Personally, I'm biased towards large metropolitan cities (despite where I live right now!), and Berlin definitely fits the bill. Road infrastructure is good and getting even better with more city freeways. The surroundings are pretty good too, with lots of lakes and stuff to do, especially up north towards the Baltic.
However, I'm not sure I want to live in Germany again. For one, my wife is American and doesn't speak a lick of Deutsch. Besides, I'm sick of Germany for various reasons: Germans are very conservative overall--politically, socially, economically, financially, technologically. True, lots of tech came out of Germany this century, but those were different times, when Germans were still adventurous. Now they're used to the good life and don't want to jeopardize it with any "risky business". Most bright and open minds have left for the US long ago.
Also, Germans can be incredibly rude, especially in the service industries. I've never been treated with more indifference and contempt than in German shops and restaurants. And that at hourly wages many times more than in the US, where you get better service regardless.
Add to that a strong dose of arrogance. Germans still think of their country as the leading edge in all the areas that made it great, completely ignoring that times have changed and the world has moved on. While they certainly haven't missed the train yet, they need to wake up and smell the coffee--and I'm not sure they're capable of that anymore.
Ireland. Seems to be really booming in the IT area. Life should be a lot cheaper than in most of Europe, though I'm sure that'll change. Language is English (well, arguably anyway), and the people are reportedly very friendly, especially after being lubricated with some ale. However, the weather is reputed to be bad a lot of the time. It's also pretty far from the Continent. I'd be interested to know how long it takes to get to the mainland, and at what cost.
Spain. One of the cheapest European countries, except for telecom. Friendly people, great weather most of the time. After living in Australia and the southern US, I'm not sure I can return to cold climates again, so Spain is a strong favorite there. The language is a problem since my Spanish is worse than my Swahili, and I don't speak Swahili. I don't know how far English will get you in Spain either. But I'm willing to learn, so that should count for something .
Amsterdam. It's on the Continent, so there's easy access to everywhere. Everybody speaks English, and good English at that. It's quite a high-tech city from what I hear, so that's a plus.
Other than these options, I can't think of anything else. Eastern Europe won't be an option for at least another decade, their infrastructure simply sucks.
Americans looking at Europe should keep the following things in mind in general. They're not show stoppers, but they can be very irritating in day-to-day life.
-cost of gas. Europe sucks the blood out of you there. Filling up a mid-size sedan runs about $50. On the flip side, there's a plethora of public transportation, and you don't need a car as much as in the US, but it depends on where you live. If you're used to the US lifestyle of two cars no matter what, that can get pretty expensive.
-cost of housing. Rents are high, houses cost even more. I only know about Germany, but I assume things are similar everythere. Most houses in Germany start at $400,000 or so and go up, up, up. There's really no equivalent of the small three bedroom suburban house for $100,000. Properties are really expensive ($150 a square meter in many places, do the math for acres), often running almost as much as the house. Therefore people build big expensive houses to make it worthwhile. Get ready to pay for the rest of your life (and maybe your children's lives) for your house.
-communications. Most European telephone companies were only recently privatised, and they're still dragging their feet. They're simply used to monopoly status and price their services accordingly. In most places even local calls are metered, so staying online with your ISP will cost you a bunch. The ISP costs themselves are comparable to the US, the real killer are the phone company charges. Downloading a Linux distribution will probably cost you more than buying the boxed version. However, it's a fast-paced field and a lot of competition is arriving. In many countries DSL is starting to arrive, and along with it flat rate Internet access. With respect to DSL, I don't think Europe is far behind the US, where it's still impossible to get DSL in most places and will be for the next 5 to 10 years.
-culture. Americans are used to travel all over the US and still remain within their cultural context: same language, same politics, same restaurants, same TV and media. Travel that much in Europe, and your head will spin. No language is truly common to all of Europe (though English is the official language of the EU). No TV is common, you have to adjust to what's available in each country; and while people on the street might speak some English, the evening news most certainly will be in the local language. Magazines and newspapers differ widely, too, though you will find many international ones also. People's lifestyles and attitudes differ incredibly, and you can make no safe assumptions except with time and experience. Don't forget, these are still independent countries, proud of their differences and heritage. In the US we can all make a joke about the South and rednecks and all, safe in the knowledge that we're all Americans after all. In Europe, make a joke about another European nation and you're liable to get your head bashed in if the wrong people stand around.
All in all, you can live quite nicely in Europe--300 million people do it every day and wouldn't be anywhere else. But be prepared for a serious culture shock for the first few months. I know of a lot of people who went through serious depression until they got used to the place. Eventually most people settle in and like it a whole lot.
Uwe Wolfgang Radu
Re:jobs for foreigners in the Netherlands (Score:2)
The bitch is that everywhere in the EU is drastically expensive to buy any computer hardware.
Really? Can't you just order one from Dell or whatever and pay extra shipping? Or is the tax/tariff that high?
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
Re:Tokyo cheap???? (Score:2)
He said "cheaply connected", and it's pretty much true nowadays (if you live in the right area). It's certainly not as cheap as the States, but you can get a 1Mbps cable connection for around 5000 yen (~$US45), an ADSL connection for about 10,000 yen (~$US90), or a 128Kbps dedicated line for 32000 yen (~$US290). Dial-up is expensive because of NTT's monopolistic deathgrip on the domestic telecommunications market, but that might be getting cheaper RSN...
Re:Great Place To Live: Toronto (Score:2)
I lived in TO for 9 years and although I had a lot of fun, living in Ottawa is much more affordable. For What I paid in rent for a 800 square foot 2-bed room apt on the 20th floor at Yonge and Eglington (almost the dead centre of the city), I now own my own 1500 square foot three bedroom three bath home on a 125 x 60 lot in Ottawa - Principal, interest, taxes AND utilities. And we can afford it on one salary (mid 50s) so my wife can stay home with our daughter past the 6 months mandated maternity leave (she really wants to).
So I agree Toronto is great for the Swinging-Single-Geek, Ottawa is the best for the Family-Oriented-Geek.
Actually, to dispell a few myth for our American Cousins, anywhere in Canada is good. We are #1 in the world in living standard and quality of life, according to the UN (7th year running). Too many taxes you say? Well, we have one of the safest countries in the world, we don't have to pay separate health insurance or unemployment insurance, and many of our government services are free, maturnity leave is now 1 year long @ 53% of your gross. Now take your taxes, health insurance
premiums, user fees for government services and add them up. Our so-called "land of high taxes" doesn't look so bad now does it?
But I digress (can you tell tommorow is Canada Day?).
Gee, someone should make this into a beer commercial...
I am
London is too damn expensive, Paris is fine (Score:4)
Paris has not so bad taxes compared to the rest of Europe. Actually, if you have kids you'll probably end up paying less income taxes than anywhere in western Europe.
We have semi working ADSL (ok pricing, not very reliable and some tech. problems though), working cable connectivity in some areas (but with upload limitations that may make it extremely expensive but for the casual surfer).
Also the Telecom industry is being forcefully opened -- the telecom regulation authority is making quite a good job of breaking the existing monopoly.
The city life is getting better (10 years ago it was sad) with some good stuff happening, and there's a trend to make it more environment friendly (less cars).
The weather is balanced, not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, not too much rain (that's, compared to London or Amsterdam!).
It's not as crowded as London or NYC. Crime is rather low.
No drinking age (I would be extremely surprised if a 13 y.o. was denied buying a beer). Age of consent, 15. No fscking moron telling you what's good or bad (that's compared to the US). If you're into haschisch, it's not that great, still not yet liberated (despite having a few ministers in office publicly claiming to smoke or having smoked), personally I don't like it anyway. No stupid political sex scandals as in the UK, as nobody gives a fuck.
Lots of easy female US tourists
Good food. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. Good cheap wine. Bad cheap beer.
Doing business with french people is strange at times. I mostly work with foreigners, personally.
It's not absolutely great, but it's really ok.
Guadalajara, Mexico (Score:2)
Guadalajara has a couple of high tech plants there (disk drives, I think -- I'm not entirely sure). When I was there in January, I was surprised by the Internet connectivity. Walking around town, there were Internet cafes and computer stores every couple of blocks.
You'll want to pick up some Spanish for living in Mexico, that's for sure. But most people in Guadalajara speak a little English -- they've got the university there, plus there's a community of about 2,000 American expatriates living on the outskirts of town. I found it a little frustrating since I wanted to practice my Spanish and everyone kept trying to talk to me in English.
Finally, the cost of good tequila is very low there, as the town of Tequila is only 60km away.
The people are very friendly, the cost of living is really low, and it's a major city so there's lots going on and the populace is used to foreigners. What more could you want? A tech job? They've got those, too!
Re:Zurich (Score:2)
Re:jobs for foreigners in the Netherlands (Score:2)
//rdj
What Makes the Best Geek Towns (Score:2)
The city has its own fibre optic network over which it offers Internet access and cable television. The local cable company does the same. Yes, Ashland may be the only place on the planet where you can choose your cable company! High speed Internet access can be had for $20.00 a month.
Good jobs. There are lots of high tech firms that are hiring. Almost all sects of computing (Microsoft, Open Source, Mac) are represented. Wages are not as high as in the big cities, but there not bad, either.
Proximity to a larger city. Medford (pop. 45,000) is only 15 miles away, and has a Barnes and Noble for those late night book runs.
Good restaurants. A good Thai joint is a necessity. We've got two. The local breweries and cafes are very good, too.
An economy not based on local natural resources. Other similar sized towns in Oregon have languished because of a reliance on the timber and fishing industries, which are waning. Ashland has embraced tourism and high tech and is flourishing.
Good schools. Ashland has exellent schools, consistently outscoring the neighboring community's schools in both math and reading. Ashland also has a University with a better than average Computer Science program.
No commute. I live on the very edge of town and my commute is less than 5 minutes. By bike it's 10.
A liberal minded community. Ashland has great diversity in both individual and family lifestyles. People who would be outcasts in other places are accepted, or at least tolerated, in Ashland.
Good outdoor recreation. When I'm tired of looking at a CRT, I can drive 20 minutes and be hiking in old growth forest.
Unfortunetly, much of what I value cannot be reproduced in somplace like Pittsburgh. I feel that the best places are no longer in the big cities. Small, foward thinking, towns seem so much better, particularly if your a geek with a family.
London (Score:2)
My impressions of London are as follows:
Very expensive. I pay £300/month for flat in central London (Whitechapel). It is a slum. Mice/rats and mushrooms growing in the bathroom. Yuck. Everything else is expensive as well. It was recently (and in the past) named the most expensive city in Europe.
Very oppressive. Public transport is hideously expensive. If you live in London unless you want to spend money to get out...you are stuck. Luckily if you are doing IT you have a lot of money...Also there is a lot to do here, but it is honestly a pain in the ass to get around the city.
Money: London is full of dot.coms and web consultancies and tons of vacancies. Basic knowledge of any web technology will get you a job. I got my first job six months ago with a few months knowledge of Perl and a lot of balls. I was making £20/hr. I was meant to write Perl/CGI/DBI scripts. I barely knew Perl. As they say here, I blagged it. 6 months and 4 contracts later I've learned a great deal and am now making the ridiculous sum of £50/hr. I see job adverts all the time for £60+ outside of London. For me this is a lot, maybe its not for you Silicon-Valley-startup-share-option-millionares.
Alas, immigration laws are stringent. Unless you get a company to sponser you for a visa or do the student program I did you can't work here. Once you get the visa, you can ONLY work for the company that hired you. They are relaxing the laws because they finally realized that their economy will suffer if they don't fill the vacancies but as of now its very difficult to work in the UK.
Wired Has the 40 biggest tech cities in the world. (Score:2)
Reykjavik (Score:2)
I think the situation is pretty good here. Lots of things going on tech-wise, icelanders are indeed very quick to grab new gadgets and technologies, I think that f.ex. the number of cellphones per capita is about the highest in the world (second only to Finland, I think). Almost every home in the country is connected to the internet, many ISP's and several free ones, ADSL is available everywhere and cable connection in several areas in the city, although not everywhere. There are a lot of firms ranging from low-level programming to high-class multimedia and should be fairly easy to find a job as the labourmarket is fluid and unemployment rate is very low.
Plus, the people are friendly and everybody speaks english fluently (a problem if you wanna learn the local language!) and the nightlife is phenomenal!.
Gummi
Re:Several good options in Europe, but be informed (Score:3)
Americans. Well, these things are pretty hard to be objective about,
I guess. Plusses for Berlin in my experience:
to.
Music is truly superb, for classical (Simon Rattle conducts the Berlin
Philharmonic), ethnic/world and techno (perhaps the techno capital of
the world?). Germans value their free time highly, this makes a big
difference to ones social life.
me...
Berlin, so accomodation is pretty cheap at the moment, despite the
influx of bureaucrats. This cannot last, though.
varieties of pilitical activism are healthier in Germany than in US,
libertarianism being the notable exception. Germans seem more willing
to embrace different lifestyles than Americans (and far, far more
likely than Brits...).
And some minusses:
but it dfinitely lags behind US. Telecoms is the big exception:
mobile phones are more common and cheaper than in the US, ISDN has
been well-priced for a long-time, so is widely used, and DSL is
becoming available, with probably better penetration in the short-term
than in the US.
proportion of the people who pass through, and pretty much doesn't
work for the rest. Undergraduate teaching typically takes the form of
impressively qualified but distant professors giving lectures to huge
theatres of undergraduates, with almost no opportunity for personal
contact. Though I'm not all that impressed by the US higher education
system, I think it probably has the edge on the German one for the
bulk of people who pass through it.
Re:Isar Valley (Score:2)
is a mixed bag. Culturally, it's very conservative. The Oktoberfest
are at best a mixed blessing: who wants 1 million foreigners puking in
your front garden? Food is great though, as is the beer (though my
preference is for the North German stuff).
Hong Kong (Score:2)
This place is a fascinating mix of east and west.
Net geeks lean heavily to the libertarian side and HK is definitely one of the freest countries in Asia.
No net censorship here a la Singapore and Australia. Free press, laissez-faire government. You're also free to chew gum. :) HK is consistently chosen as the freest economy in the world [heritage.org]. Low flat tax. No sales tax.
For English speaking geeks, they should be able to fit right in as there is a sizable expatriate population and English and Chinese are the official languages.
Plenty of start-ups here. There's a culture of entrepreneurship born out of the place's immigrant roots. Some interesting sites:
now.com [now.com]
comicinema [comicinema.com]
Lots of cutting edge tech. People are gadget crazy here just like in Japan. One of the highest rates of cell phone usage here, behind only Nokia-land, aka the Scandinavian countries. People change cell phones like clothes. WAP is already widespread here and i-mode is coming soon. Broadband is rapidly being adopted. Had the world's first interactive TV system.
Great food, HK movies, excellent public transportation system. Clean subways, trams, buses, ferries, even the world's longest escalator that cuts through the city up the hills!
Downer: pollution. That's the major complaint that people have but it's getting better. Also high cost of housing. Prices have dropped in the past few years but costs probably rival those of Tokyo and SF.
Oh yeah. And there's Starbucks, CNN and CNBC if you're into that sort of thing.
Are you willing to learn a language? (Score:2)
Australia is okay if you can command a tech's income. Otherwise, recent dismantling of the school system and social services makes it awful. Public transit isn't very good there either. It is in many ways the worst of America combined with he worst of Britain.
New Zealand has been a mess for years. Stay clear.
English Canada is okay, but either you pay a fortune to live in Toronto or Vancouver or you live in dull, cold secondary centres with little to offer the tech or anyone else.
Montreal is cheap, very tech oriented, and has cheap DSL and cable modems as well as a first rate telecom infrastructure, but good knowledge of French improves the experience dramatically. Ottawa is a bit of a compromise between Toronto and Montreal, cheap and dull, fairly high tech, and somewhat French.
It is possible to live in Brussels with only English. It won't be as much fun, but it is possible. Brussels and the university towns of Leuven and Louvain-la-neuve are fully wired for cable modems and as I understand it DSL is now available. Rates are good. Rent is high, but not as much as in Silicon Valley.
Paris is still an excellent place to live, if you can afford the rent which is at roughly Silicon Valley levels. The French telecommunications system has come back from being one of Europe's worst 20 years ago to one of Europe's best and most modern. If Paris costs too much, Lyon, Toulouse, Strasbourg and the new high tech centres at Sophia Antipolis and Grenoble have a lot to recommend themnselves, including topless beaches or good skiing.
I'm told Barcelona in Spain and Coimbra in Portugal are pretty good - at least for relatively cheap and poor European countries - but you can't live there with English alone.
I haven't lived in Germany in years, but it doesn't strike me as a haven of high-tech. Leipzig and Chemnitz used to be the communist Silicon Valley before reunification, but I doubt they're much now. Perhaps the newly rebuilt Berlin is good for tech, but I want to remember the cool, artsy, punk West Berlin that was. Without it, I don't think I'd want to live there.
Stay away from the major west German cities. They are all post-war ugly construction. And, German taxes are out of control. France or Belgium are much better on that count.
I'm told Stockholm and Göteborg are good to techs these days, as well as the area around Uppsala, but I can't verify this. Finland is reputed to be the most wired nation in Europe, with more than three-quarters of the population online. In Sweden, you can survive on English alone. In Finland, it's a bit harder. Plus any idiot can learn Swedish - it's pretty easy to do - but Finnish is extremely hard.
I've never lived in Italy or the Netherlands. Switzerland is home to a lot of high tech now, and things are getting better there, but you have to put up with a lot of boredom to live in Switzerland.
Outside Europe and the Americas, Bangalore is the place to be in India. They speak English and have most of India's high tech sector. Compared to the US and Europe, it's reputed to be dirt cheap. In China, Hong Kong is the most wired city, but also the most expensive. Guangdong, Shanghai and Beijing are supposed to be pretty modern and have good computer infrastructure. Taiwan is also a well wired country, but it is pretty expensive. Of course, learning Chinese may pose some barriers to integration. Singapore is wired and anglophone, but expensive and deeply conservative. Malaysia is cheaper, and quite high tech now, but still very conservative. Japan is just expensive, and no longer quite the paragon of technology it used to be.
As far as I know, that covers your options.
Re:Hong Kong (Score:2)
i would disagree that techies would find Singapore a better bet. like i said, net freedom is probably a high priority for a lot of techies and Singapore censors the net, not to mention print media and magazines like Time or newspapers like the WSJ when the government decides that their coverage is not positive of Singapore.
Re:Trinidad & Tobago? (Score:2)
But the backwards nature of the island means your hacking skills will be put to the test. You get a huge ego boost when you get your comms up and running on the island. The locals are fairly well educated and willing to jump at any opportunity to work on an internet project, if it gives them the skills to get off the island for a few years.
On the down side, the ingrained corruption will slow you down and wear you down and teach you more about human interaction than you ever wanted to know.
the AC
Re:Calgary (Score:2)
Re:Guildford, Surrey, England... (Score:2)
The pubs in Guildford are nice, though.
My list (Score:2)
London and M4 corridor without a doubt the hi-tech consumption leader outside the US. London has the city, with its outrageous salaries and rents to match. All the tech companies stretch out towards the west, following the M4 motorway. Best nightlife in europe, and traffic sucks.
Dublin Lots of development following the dual carriageways north, south, and west from the city. The nightlife is friendly but muted and it ends too early for my tastes. Home of Guiness.
Netherlands Several areas around the netherlands are good for technology. Utrecht is a university town, to the tech is good but the salaries are bad. Cable and DSL are appearing all over the place. Amsterdam has good tech, and Rotterdam is starting to take off despite it being a big ugly port city.
France The frenchies are starting to pull their heads out of their asses, and technology is starting to become cool. Paris now has a few startup centres where the hyper-cool hang out, with a level of pretentiousness that puts san francisco dot-commies to shame. There are a few other tech centres, but they don't have that entrepreneurial spirit. Grenoble has tons of hi tech, but is too distant and not wired. Sophia poses as hi tech, but the riviera is still rural french work ethos meets tourist ripoff. You will have to learn fluent french, but your english will make you very valuable.
Belgium There is a lot of hi tech starting up here. Cable and DSL are spreading around Brussels and east to Leuven, and a few other big cities. Brussels can be a fun place, it's home to the commission, and employs many young, single women. The nightlife revolves around drinking, and most everyone speaks english.
Torino Turin is becoming home to many hi tech companies as the automotive industries evolve. Italian is a must, though. But it is centrally located to the alps and the riviera.
Singapore Tech heaven. Life is hell.
South AfricaCapetown is the nicest, but jo-burg has the connectivity.
the AC
Re:Several good options in Europe, but be informed (Score:2)
invested in this? Deutsche Bahn might not be perfect, but they're a
damn sight better than Amtrak.
has refused to make effective promises that the military hardware will
not be used against Kurds. The US is not interested in Turkish human
rights violations, because of Turkey's importance to their
Mid. East strategy. I rather hope that being pro-technology does not
require one to be pro-genocide
really excellent. The failure of German higher education is that they
work with great human material, spend a long time on it (many British
scientists have PhDs younger than Germans finish their first degree),
and still fail to provide a first-rate education. Enthusiasm amongst
German faculty is definitely poorer than in the US. Still, respect
for academic standards is very high in Germany, I think better than
the US, though that's a judgement call.
are in a mess. The problem they face is a shrinking population, which
is a demographic problem that hits privatised pension schemes just as
hard as public schemes (because a big retirement population realising
their investments will cause a downwards pressure on prices). A
demographic problem calls for a demographic solution: higher
immigration.
Re:Several good options in Europe, but be informed (Score:2)
> people who have invested in this?
Actually, TransRapid is the most production-ready maglev system in the world. They've been working on the technology since the 60s. I think the Japanese tend to get mentioned more in this regard because of the association with their bullet trains which everyone knows about--which probably leads to the assumption that their maglev technology must also be most advanced. There have been various articles in the scientific press (especially Scientific American) with comparisons between the Japanese and German system (repulsive vs. attractive), with the general consensus that the Japanese system isn't market ready yet.
> Turkish human rights are appalling, quite as
> bad as Iraq.
Quite correct. I really shouldn't have mentioned that point because it would have taken more elaboration to do it justice. The thing is, German industry is quite willing to overlook human rights for a quick buck--witness their involvement in chemical technology deliveries to Iraq--and one has to wonder whether the German government really is always consistent in that respect. For one thing, Germans have a thing with Turks because they're the largest minority in Germany. On the other hand, Germany has always been very cosy with Arab countries, all the way back to the Third Reich. My point is that the objection to the Turkish sales of the Leopard II probably had more to do with the fact that it was Turkey. I'm suspecting you might have never heard about it had it been say Indonesia instead.
> I'm unconvinced about the claim that Germany's
> long-term finances are in a mess.
Well, that's an issue I'm no expert on, other than that the quality of life is steadily declining in Germany. On the recent quality-of-life UN roster of countries, Germany ranked about in the middle, quite unbecoming for the third-largest economy in the world. Blaming it all on an aging population doesn't tell the whole story.
Even if you're right, their general attitude doesn't help. Germans in general tend to be very child-unfriendly, if one can make such a blanket statement. I visited there just three weeks ago with my two year old twins, and I've never seen so much indifference or outright displeasure towards kids. Here in the southern US, I can't go to the mall without being stopped 10-15 times by complete strangers ogling over the twins. OK, the South is maybe more child-friendly than average in the US, but still. So this anti-child attitude in Germany will either have to change, or they'll have to become an immigration country like the US. The latter they pretty much already are anyway, though they won't admit it. The former I'd like to see.
Uwe Wolfgang Radu