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The (im)Mobility of Web 2.0 Apps

Journal written by narramissic (997261) and posted by Zonk on Wed Oct 18, 2006 03:17 PM
from the get-on-and-get-out dept.
narramissic writes "So many Web 2.0 apps seem like a natural fit for use on mobile phones -- more so, in fact, than the PCs they were written for. Take for example, Google maps or Flickr or any of the myriad social networking sites. Frankly, I wonder why anyone would even want to use them while sitting at a desk. And yet the reality of using those apps on cell phones is solidly disappointing because of the inherent constraints of mobile phones and networks. This article gets deeper into the ups and downs of reworking Web 2.0 apps for use on mobile phones."
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  • The reason I use maps at my desk (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:19PM (#16491517)
    Is because I have a huge ass screen and a very fast connection. My phone can't match either of those.
  • by yagu (721525) * <yayagu AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:19PM (#16491537)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday August 15, @03:36PM)

    The article seems to carry as a given that layering 2.0 (fill in your favorite definition of what the really is) into the mobile architectures. If I were to consider all of the times I've been frustrated with mobile web experiences, and there have been many, I'd say 99.9% of my frustration has been and continues to be real estate, and screen quality.

    Yeah, there may have been a couple of times where I'd wish for faster refresh, but when all is said and done, I'm going crazy trying to establish any kind of gestalt with the mobile web experience. Heck, I'd even say I'd prefer simple text interaction -- not an easy assignment for developers required to sandwich ads into the presentation space.

    I know there are some who say we can solve this darned form factor thingy -- I don't think it's soluble. At some point, smaller is just too small, no matter the "quality" of that smallness. Taken to a ridiculous extreme, technology may someday be capable of squeezing a phone, camera, video, music, tv, all onto something the size of the head of a pin. So?

    The article mentions "ShoZu", a mobile client that lets mobile users update flickr photos (adding comments)... changing the experience from a 165 second-71.4kb ordeal to a 16 second-3.25kb ordeal. Yeah, the improvement is significant, but I'm not meeting many people who: find adding comments to flickr photos so urgent they MUST do so on their phones; nor are much inclined to do so given the capability.

    (personal anecdote: The whole family replaced/upgraded cell phones about four months ago. It was the first time we'd had phones with the builtin cameras -- something I'd never cared about or wanted. However it was intriguing, and fun -- the whole family took pics, swapped pictures and videos, created ringtones, created personalized wallpapers, for one day! Four months later, we all still have the same wall papers we created that day, none of us has sent a single other picture to each other. It's a novelty -- it wears off -- fast!)

  • Gee... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by creimer (824291) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:24PM (#16491611)
    (http://www.creimer.ws/ | Last Journal: Friday January 26 2007, @12:40PM)
    The more I see "Web 2.0" (TM) on Slashdot, the more I think it might be real.
    • Re:Gee... by kfg (Score:2) Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:26PM
      • Re:Gee... by AKAImBatman (Score:2) Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:34PM
        • Re:Gee... by kfg (Score:1) Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:10PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by Rachel Lucid (964267) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:25PM (#16491629)
    (http://www.lastres0rt.com/ | Last Journal: Friday July 14 2006, @02:31PM)
    Phones, Blackberries, PDAs, and even (my personal favorite) the Nintendo DS are all restricted by a small number of buttons and tiny screen real estate. Ergo, they often need overhauls of their entire front end to accomodate touch-screens, keypads, and voice commands, AND on top of all that they need their networking kicked around a little as well to account for the possiblity of sucky/no service.

    The more that laptops and wi-fi become ubiquitous, the less that people will care about using other devices for more than what they WANT to use them for. Yes, having Google Earth and an audio version of Wikipedia would rock. But I don't see it happening.
  • Google Maps Mobile (Score:5, Informative)

    by eggz128 (447435) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:25PM (#16491635)
    Nuff said [google.com]
  • worthless (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crayz (1056) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:26PM (#16491643)
    (http://crayz.org/)
    Because the application is built on Ajax, like many other Web 2.0 services, it pushes data out to the client device in order to speed up future user requests

    Does this author understand Ajax or Google Maps *at all*? Why bother reading this tripe?
  • by Malfourmed (633699) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:29PM (#16491679)
    (http://www.worldinprogress.org/)
    ... video demonstration here [mytreo.net]
  • Browser not needed? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by OakDragon (885217) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:31PM (#16491723)
    (Last Journal: Friday August 24, @08:52PM)

    From TFA:

    One way that Web 2.0 companies can similarly adjust their services for mobile devices is by relying less on browser-based applications and more on small software clients that users can download onto their phones. "The browser will fade into the background," said Wood.

    Browsers on the desktop have evolved along the lines of "do everything" applications, which is why the AJAX/Web 2.0 stuff kind of works in them. Lets face it, if you writing an application from scratch to do match the functionality of Google maps, say, you wouldn't start with a browser. Google maps is impressive because it actually works in a browser!

    For Web 2.0 sites, 'lite' custom apps may be just the answer.

  • Data Bills (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Joe The Dragon (967727) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:31PM (#16491731)
    Web 2.0 can't take off on mobile phones when the you are being raped by the cell phone cell phone companys for data use, unlimited plans that are not unlimited, locked down phones, phones that only work with one company, and more.
    • Re:Data Bills by peragrin (Score:2) Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:33PM
      • Re:Data Bills by ncc74656 (Score:2) Wednesday October 18 2006, @05:24PM
        • Re:Data Bills by IdolizingStewie (Score:1) Wednesday October 18 2006, @09:51PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Data Bills by rhavyn (Score:2) Wednesday October 18 2006, @06:28PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Real life vs. Virtual Life (Score:2, Interesting)

    by justinbach (1002761) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:34PM (#16491785)
    (http://www.spacewalrus.com/)
    It seems to me that the reason that a lot of these apps haven't made their way on to portable platforms (aside from the technical restraints) is simply because many of these services (myspace, facebook, etc) provide a way of mirroring one's real-world friends, acquaintances, &c on the internet and having even more ways of interacting with them. If I'm in the sort of situation where I'm likely to have access to a mobile platform (and not to a computer) odds are that I'm actually hanging out with those friends and acquaintances, and therefore don't need the added layers of communication and community that these sites provide...more than likely, a cellphone with text messaging will be more than sufficient for any "virtual" interactions while I'm in real-world space.

    Of course, we're also now reaching a point where these technologies are creating social networks that didn't exist before the technology. I was in college (Zuckerberg's year, actually) when facebook made its debut, and I used it very occasionally as a way to check on my real-world friends' birthdays, cell #s, and so forth. My sister is a freshman now and facebook is an enormous part of "the college experience"; she's "friends" with tons of people she's never even met. This sort of surrogate "virtual" social life can be a lot of fun as a procrastination activity when you're stuck in a computer lab, at the office, or in any sort of setting where you have a computer and should be doing something else, but chances are that if you're running around with a cellphone and nothing else, you've got better things to do with your time anyway.
  • Uh-oh (Score:1)

    by DietCoke (139072) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:40PM (#16491877)
    I smell Web 3.0 coming on, and it smells about as bad as 2.0.

  • by PureCreditor (300490) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @03:59PM (#16492145)
    the majority of Web 2.0 sites require AJAX to do their magic, which will be both CPU and bandwidth intensive.

    Given a non-3G phone's connection (GPRS, EDGE, or 1xRTT), AJAX's nonstop connection to the servers will be a huge bottleneck to the usability of the apps.

    unless we downgrade the apps to WHTML-compatible, which nullifies any advantage Web 2.0 has over the vanilla 1.0 (whatever that is)
  • Well, duh. (Score:2)

    by VGR (467274) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:13PM (#16492337)
    Of course craptastic Web 2.0 pages don't work on mobile devices. They use JavaScript like it's the high fructose corn syrup of the development world.

    I can't get too mad at the article, though, because clearly 99% of the world's web authors are clueless about writing compliant, gracefully-degrading pages. If they made sure every page was at least minimally functional in lynx, mobile devices would easily be good enough.

    Maybe some sort of "Mobile Device Compatible" certifications body would help. It doesn't even have to be a binary condition; they can be "compliant with level one mobile usage," "compliant with level two mobile usage," and so on.
    • Re:Well, duh. by justinbach (Score:1) Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:46PM
  • So the world had this great language designed to run on small devices and it was perfect for the web... Microsoft poisoned it and Sun dropped the ball. So now we're imitating real applications in a scripting language that was intended to serve as glue for the real language.

    And now we want to run that on our phones.

    Sigh.

    Pat Niemeyer
  • Google Maps (Score:1)

    by Ullteppe (953103) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:21PM (#16492437)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday February 21 2006, @01:52PM)
    There is actually a mobile version of Google maps, written in Java. Works very well on my phone (Sony Ericsson K700i), despite of the small screen. So, you can get the functionality, even though it may more sense to make a custom Java application instead of trying to run everything through a browser. This also allows you to make custom modifications to the mobile version, as mobile phones are very different from PCs when it comes to screen real estate and input methods.

    I understand the attraction of having one solution work for EVERYTHING, but I'm not really sure it is practical. BTW, a lot of web pages don't render well on my PSP, but Google is beautiful. Their low-key approach means that the Google home page renders perfectly without any scrolling. Many news sites are hopeless because of all the junk and advertising. Wish more people thought about this.

  • Never mind 2.0... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dghcasp (459766) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:25PM (#16492477)

    Never mind Web 2.0 apps on my mobile, I'm still waiting for Web 1.0 pages to work half decent.

    For better or worse, the Web seems to have settled on a header plus the two or three column layout. On a mobile, unless the site has been optimized (which very few are) you have to scroll down through the header (where every link usually ends up being a seperate line) then through everything on the left and right before you get to the content.

    Actually, in the spirit of "picture worth 1000 words," let me SHOW you what the slashdot home page looks like on my BlackBerry 8700;

    the first new article is in bold below -- See how far you have to scroll to see it?

    Slashdot [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
    Search [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
    News for nerds, stuff that matters

    * Preferences [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
    * Subscribe [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
    * Journal [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
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    * Logout [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
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    Sections [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]

    *
    Main [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
    * Apple [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
    * AskSlashdot [added for lameness filter] [Grr still says too lame]
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    Tuesday October 17
    o Kansas Soil Yields Massive Meteorite (157)
    o Flic
  • by Stormx2 (1003260) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:29PM (#16492515)
    So you can plan journeys, print maps for people, link people to maps more easily (like it or not its harder to use on your mobile).
  • by Aceticon (140883) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:36PM (#16492615)
    Which Web 2.0 definition are they using here, the share-trader's one or the technologist's one?

    If it's the first, then it all goes around new business models that (in a not yet fully explained way) explore the networking and first mover advantage effects of online social networking sites to make money.

    Now, beyond the fact that mobile phones already support two of the most popular tools for social networks (voice calls and SMS), exactly which new social network features can the online social network sites comunity bring to the mobile phone world that either have already been tried and failed miserable (think picture exchange - MMS) or would not work properly due to the current limitiations of the technology and/or the pricing models for mobile phone usage (think YouTube-mobile)?

    From the top of my head, the few uses that i can think of which might be successful are things like allowing the user to navigate his online network of contacts also from his mobile (think a LinkedIn mobile user interface). That might help with the stickiness of the service but might be difficult to moneytise.

    If we're going about the technology definition of Web 2.0 that all goes about providing in a browser a user intereface that feels and reacts as one done in a thick client application (basically fast responding and updating what's displayed only where it needs to be updated - thus without a full repaint). That's actually the whole point of AJAX (which is the bastardized mix of technologies people had to came up with in order to make the above mentioned happen under today's standard browser implementations).

    This has no application to mobile phones whatsover since neither WML browsers (for WAP) nor miny web-browsers support the necessary standards to allow using of AJAX like techniques.
  • Quoth the poster:

    So many Web 2.0 apps seem like a natural fit for use on mobile phones -- more so, in fact, than the PCs they were written for.... Frankly, I wonder why anyone would even want to use them while sitting at a desk.

    Because it's more fun than actually working [slashdot.org].

  • by rts008 (812749) <rts008@ h o t mail.com> on Wednesday October 18 2006, @04:49PM (#16492791)
    (http://www.redorbit.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 07, @03:44AM)
    "Frankly, I wonder why anyone would even want to use them while sitting at a desk."

    Ehmm...nice display, maybe?
    Like the added functions available on a desktop?
    Have no use for a mobile phone, but still have a use for Google Maps?
    Maybe I only feel the need to be connected when I want to be connected?
    Don't really give a rat's ass about your opinions?

    Sit down, and STFU. The world does not revolve around you. If more people had more influence, then maybe you would see your utopia realised, but apparently we do not all like your brand of koolaid.
  • You are missing... (Score:1)

    by computerDub (911672) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @05:34PM (#16493381)
    the BIG picture.
  • by vojta (1015335) on Wednesday October 18 2006, @05:40PM (#16493445)
    I'm using my Nokia N93 with Flickr upload (http://www.flickr.com/nokia), reading RSS feeds using Widsets (www.widsets.com - widgets for mobile), using their great browser to even download videos from video.google.com and for example Google has a great Google Earth SW downloadable from www.google.com/gmm. And I'm sure there are plenty of others - they just lack a good community to write about.
  • Slashdot doesn't work on mobile phones either. On my normally web-capable Treo-650, Slashdot comes across as one long, vertical, unreadable string of text in the middle of the screen. Even when I turn off images I can not read slashdot. This is new Slashdot only, old Slashdot worked fine. Wonder what the Slashdot admins are trying to say by saying that Web 2.0 doesn't work doesn't work on mobile phones? The Treo 650 brower I have is called Blazer v4.0 . I can ~jimmy~ the loading by stopping the xfer after about 100k, then it's nearly readable.

  • I hate it when... (Score:1)

    by wetelectric (956671) on Thursday October 19 2006, @05:47AM (#16499095)
    people use 'web 2.0' without quotes. Or use it in a paragraph without including the following: 'stupid','buzz term', or 'nonsense phrase';
  • by KnuthKonrad (982937) on Thursday October 19 2006, @06:06AM (#16499175)
    Take for example, [...] Flickr or any of the myriad social networking sites. Frankly, I wonder why anyone would even want to use them while sitting at a desk.
    Frankly, I wonder why anyone would even want to use them at all. OK, this might be why I will never become a billionaire. I could never have "invented" something the like, because I never, ever thought that someone will actually find crap like this usefull.
  • Mobile Widgets (Score:1)

    by WebfishUK (249858) on Thursday October 19 2006, @06:10AM (#16499197)
    Anyone else seen widsets [widsets.com]. Kind of like Yahoo widgets/Konfabulator/Dashboard for your mobile. Works great on my E61, but mainly when using a WiFi link.
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