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Libraries Are 31337
from the internet-is-just-a-giant-library dept.
Many people may hold the image of a librarian as a shushing school marm who does little more than stamp and shelve books because that's all they've seen librarians do. Well think again - that's about as inaccurate as believing that Alan Greenspan is nothing more than a glorified bank teller. The job titles may change but the mission of the profession remains the same: organize information and help people find it. Libraries have been around a lot longer than the Internet, and even library technology can hold its own with the best out there. For example, Google's savvy results ranking was hardly the birth of citation analysis (next up: metadata - cough, cataloging, cough), and there are enormous library systems that also predate the Internet.
Although library geeks and technology nerds may have contrary images, in today's world the boundary between the career of the librarian and the information technologist is disappearing. Librarians today not only administer Web servers and dynamic databases to help manage large digital collections and thousands of electronic resources, they teach people how to use library systems. And just as enlightened computer engineers are advocates of noncommercial software and campaign for online rights, the library profession has a long history of staunchly defending freedom - from book burnings to the FBI's Library Awareness Program to the latest copyright battles and almost all other current issues in intellectual freedom.
Check out LISNews.com (recognize the format?) and some library blogs if you're interested in reading more about real librarians.
Too long (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Too long (Score:5, Funny)
Can someone summarize this in one sentence, I'm not going to read all that.
A librarian who is upset by all the "librarians are losers" stereotypes wishes for us to read a brief article which, contrary to the nerdy librarian's expectations, does nothing to dispel said stereotypes.
call em information broker (Score:5, Interesting)
librarians are old-fashioned only as long as they stick to storing information on paper instead of creating networked, digital libraries. the first will protect there jobs, probably, the latter is going to save us researchers/users/customers more and more time.
Just Call it a LIBRARY, Please! (Score:5, Interesting)
Same went for other impressive efforts to rename things: PE -> LLW Life Long Wellness, Admissions Office -> Welcome Center, etc.
A true professional should know how to position themselves so the public can find them. Confusing, euphemistic titles are as bad as Political Correctness in my book. If anyone thinks otherwise, try running a bond issue on a ballot for something other than Library and see how many votes it nets you.
Re:Just Call it a LIBRARY, Please! (Score:5, Insightful)
Agree in Houston - libraries going wireless (Score:5, Interesting)
librarian image? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm obviously not many people, because whenever I think of a librarian, I keep seeing Britney Spears in various stages of undress while surrounded by books...and wearing glasses. You know, *those* glasses.. the ones that say "I'm the HEAD librarian."
Yeah, those...
l33t? no. (Score:5, Funny)
libraries are most certainly 31337... (Score:5, Funny)
librarians (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:librarians (Score:5, Informative)
Re:librarians (Score:5, Interesting)
So you see, it's not that simple. If you're thinking of bringing a pile of damaged, marked up, dirty books to the library so you can feel like you've done some kind of public service, save yourself the trouble. We're already understaffed and underpaid, and we don't really have much in the way of spare time to sort through your garbage so you can feel like a champion of philanthropy. If you have good, clean, undamaged books, CDs, videos, DVDs, software (especially certification test materials--that stuff gets stolen so fast you wouldn't believe it), by all means, bring them in; we'll even send you a thank-you note. But don't act like it entitles you to dictate what becomes of them or like that one donation should exempt you from overdue fees for life.
-phatty 2x4
what every library needs is... (Score:5, Insightful)
In modern day life every town/city library could present the books electronically for the benefit of it's citizens, or indeed the world.
But because of copyright this will never be allowed to happen to the majority of books.
People in this communitity have only recently (in the last five to ten years) started to wake up and realise that technology is not a limiting factor anymore, the legal system is. Librarians probably knew this all along and have not been worried about becoming redundant.
If anything the Internet and libraries can probably learn more from each other than you realise.
Librarians may be depicted in a less than flattering way in the media, but how many people actually visit libraries outside of schooling these days? I myself visit Borders book store, browse, listen to music, have a coffee and chat with my friends most saturdays, but in a library I wouldn't be able to find the latest titles or enjoy myself. Compared to retail a library is a staid boring authoritarian place, which is why the staff of these valuable institutions are depicted in this way.
If they want to change their perception let's encourgage them to change their work place.
--
Sadly, whilst we value knowledge, it will be limited, rationed and paid for. When we cease to value knowledge we will have no use for it.
(me)
Re:what every library needs is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Almost, but not quite, like Project Gutenberg [ibiblio.org], in fact.
Your point about copyright is still valid, but Project Gutenberg is making the rest possible.
I worked on a project to digitise every book in the French National Library (EBPF, or Every P****** Book in France, as our overworked scanner operators used to call it. A worthwhile thing - not only did it allow multiple people to look at the same book simultaneously, but it also allowed rare books to be preserved - they weren't handled anymore, so they weren't damaged.
how many people actually visit libraries outside of schooling these days?
Quick question - are you a parent? If not, I can understand this question. If you are, then I'd be surprised if your kid didn't use the library in some form. I used to as a kid, and even though our daughter is currently only eight months' old, we go to the library and pick out baby books for her. This works well - she gets bored of things really quickly, so being able to return the books and pick new ones is a big bonus.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:what every library needs is... (Score:4, Insightful)
When I was a student I used the college library a lot, mainly because it was the only place I could use Apple Mac's at the time (Mac Pluses!).
I also used the school library a lot, amazingly because I found it better than the local public library (I was lucky to go to a very successful boy's Grammar school).
Recently I was asked by my boss to find some information for his kids' homework using the net at work. A fact which reinforced my view that kids don't use the library much anymore. When you've got Encarta on a cd/dvd at home and a net connection it's a hundred times quicker and useful for a school kid than actually visiting a library. If I were a kid again I bet I'd be online just as much as I am nowdays as an IT professional.
One of the reasons that libraries are useful is that they are free and open up access to knowledge
and learning to those without the funds to pay for the books. I wouldn't mind paying for the priviledge to use the library more if they had a better selection of books.
The current library system here in the UK is supported by the local authority, which means that our local taxes pay for the books. If no one visits the library there isn't much justification for paying for nice new books.
Re:what every library needs is... (Score:5, Informative)
For the rare stuff, like original Isaac Newton Principalia Optica and the French Academy of Science journals from the 1700s, we'd take photographs of every page, then scan the photographs. The original book never went through and scanner, as it was too frail.
Sounds a bit less destructive than the process you're describing.
Cheers,
Ian
We have the technology.... (Score:5, Informative)
The biggest impediment to the type of access you describe nowadays isn't the technology, it's capitalism and all its derivatives, such as copyright.
Case in point: A few years ago, the ebook vendor netLibrary offered an offline reader [netlibrary.com]. This product was removed due to publisher paranoia. Currently you can only view netLibrary titles one page at a time while connected to the Internet. Furthermore, despite the medium, only one patron per purchasing library can check out a book at any given time. But never fear, now they're offering - for an extra fee - the ability to use a (somewhat [elcomsoft.com]) DRM crippled offline reader [netlibrary.com].
Publishers are about as up to date with technology and new pricing models as the RIAA. Copyrights disputes have been cited as the reason several publishers have pulled their titles from full-text databases. So instead of moving towards the single search box method for library resources, we now have hundreds of competing library database vendors, each with different coverage and search interfaces. It is the most difficulty time in history to do library research (and the slack that Google is picking up is a detriment to research skills [disenchanted.com]) not just because of varying library materials formats, but because of copyright.
Libraries Are 31337 [slashdot.org]
Re:what every library needs is... (Score:5, Interesting)
I visit the local libraries here in Calgary, AB all the time. We have great libraries with great programs and classes, computers for students and the less fortunate, an excellent selection of books (both old and new) - and I believe that there are even coffee shops attached to some of the newer ones (one I know of downtown, anyhow).
I was poor (by Canadian standards) growing up and if it hadn't been for libraries, I would not be in the line of work I am - there is no way I could have bought all the programming and computer books I took out on loan. Being able to access the Internet was also quite useful.
Now that I make a disproportionately large amount of money for my age (double income, no kids) my better half and I donate many of the books we buy every year to the local libraries (at least 50 this year). Before you bemoan the lack of books at your local library, why not donate some books?
And don't even get me started on the staff of your average retail bookstore. They are often the most unhelpful group of slackers I have ever met (at least in the three large bookstores I frequent).
I'll take staid, boring, authoritarian, and useful over useless and costly anyday.
In any case, a lot of people use libraries for things unrelated to school. Just because a hip, young, modern guy like you won't be caught dead in one doesn't mean the rest of us don't recognise the value of such an institution.
One last thing you forgot - libraries are pretty much the last place you can find many examples of old information - old newspapers, out of print books, etc.
(This isn't a flame - I just think that you haven't been in a library for quite awhile or the libraries in your town are a bit behind the times - pretend I peppered this text with winky smiley's, k?)
Re:what every library needs is... (Score:5, Interesting)
As a casual reader of books, I appreciate when a book is at the library. If a book is not at the library, I can generally ask a library to hold it for me when it comes back. The value of a library is that it has a range of free books, not that it has every book you want every time you want it.
As a researcher, books are not so critical. Most information in books is old, and there is generally some redundancy among books, so one can generally come up with an appropriate book at a well stocked library. The real information for research is in journals, which are generally not allowed to circulate, and can be copied for a minimal fee.
So yes, digital books might make the library nicer, but not to the degree that you assert. The library is about freedom of information, and the freedom to acquire information, and it fulfills that duty quite well. Free books are a part of that mandate, and possible the most visible part of that mandate, but not important to the degree you assert.
The reason that people do not think of think of libraries in a positive light is because they take them for granted. People just assume that they have a right to free help to get the information they need, and then be protected when the government comes to interrogate a librarian about a patrons reading practices. By making such suggestion:
People in this community have only recently (in the last five to ten years) started to wake up and realize that technology is not a limiting factor anymore, the legal system is. Librarians probably knew this all along and have not been worried about becoming redundant.
you validate the concept that a library is nothing but a storage of books, and total ignore the underlying principle present in out modern libraries. You minimize the importance of a library and insult the degreed and highly trained proffesional necessary to make such institutions possible.
Memepool.com was talking about this... (Score:5, Informative)
... a while back. Right from their site [memepool.com]:
"Although the general public often seems surprised [modbee.com] when librarians don't fit their pre-conceived image [westga.edu], the profession has celebrated its own differences [librarianavengers.com] for years. Librarians are funny [lipsticklibrarian.com], irreverent [warriorlibrarian.com], interesting [sonic.net], and often radical [libr.org] people. Though popular culture includes considerable library material [byui.edu], it often ignores those on the fringe [bmeworld.com]."
PDHoss
Librarians (Score:4, Interesting)
As these special searching mechanisms are made into algorithms, I think librarians will become tenders of technology and book shelvers (unless that's automated as well), not the guides that they were years ago and, to some extent, are today. This situation kinda resembles the Kramnik/Fritz thing...
Just So (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only that, she is frequently coopted to help with IT problems, since the IT manager doesn't have a staff. One time, she had to manually recover three days worth of circulation info when some moron from the school district turned off the server without shutting everything down properly.
It scares me when she talks about how much she loves cataloguing, though.
Librarians are criminals (Score:5, Funny)
Stop the pirate rings! Gaol all librarians!
Librarians (Score:5, Informative)
In "library school" things I learned about included information architecture, web design, HTML, XML, Javascript and CSS, metadata, authentication and authenticity, network and information security, databases (Access, mySQL) how to install and run Linux, and most importantly how to organize and present information. It was library school that introduced me to Open Source adn Free Software. The basic fuctions and principles of libraries and librarians are probably the most useful of the bunch, even in my current tech job.
Not like the libraries I know back home (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not like the libraries I know back home (Score:5, Funny)
- Robin
Librarians.. and the Afternow. (lil offtopic) (Score:5, Interesting)
www.theafternow.com [theafternow.com]
Give a listen, all the episodes are free and in MP3 format.
ALA (Score:4, Informative)
Has anyone read the fine print??? (Score:5, Funny)
I think they cut and pasted this from a PrOn site!
(Score:6, unfuckingbelievable)
Libraries don't need to be "elite" (Score:5, Interesting)
Every dollar spent on technology is a dollar that doesn't go toward buying another book. It pained me to hear librarians who, when asked on a local radio show what they would do with $100,000, would spend it all on IT when their book collections are so modest.
Sharing the Internet with the public is a worthy goal, but for most avenues of knowledge, books and periodicals are still the way to go. When authors decide to spend the years it takes to create a great book, they publish it on paper so they can make money, not on the web. Librarians realize this and focus their efforts on creating collections of printed works that are carefully catalogued and chosen for their intellectual value.
Sharing local collections with the world is being undertaken by the Library of Congress in two separate projects. National works of art are at http://memory.loc.gov/ [loc.gov], and the LOC is helping other countries with putting their materials online at http://international.loc.gov/ [loc.gov].
I often... (Score:4, Interesting)
I also worked IT support for a large university for a while, and can further attest to the technical proficiency of librarians with the following: Not only were the professional librarians some of the easiest customers to work with they had difficulties, they rarely, if ever had the same problem twice, if the problem in question was something that could be resolved by simpl having watched and asked me about what I was doing. Made for easy library server maintenance. They wanted them down less than I did.
you can tell this story was written by a librarian (Score:5, Funny)
1337 librarians? (Score:3, Funny)
Librarians? (Score:3, Funny)
"Many people may hold the image of a librarian as a shushing school marm who does little more than stamp and shelve books because that's all they've seen librarians do"
Seriously, who have they been talking to? Any geek worth his (or her) salt should, upon hearing the word "Librarian" immediately think "simian". (Not, note, monkey. That would be a very painful thought) Why this has not caught on among the general populace is a mystery. Perhaps they have simply not ventured deeply enough into the more obscure sections of their "local" library...
Naked Librarians (Score:4, Informative)
-Mark
Libraries and Open Source (Score:5, Informative)
There's also been Articles [lita.org] and Great Essays [infomotions.com] on OSS use in libraries. There's even a Library Hacker Site [usrlib.info] that runs Scoop.
It is true, for the most part, We're A Bunch Of Old Ladies [ala.org], but that is beginning to change.
I always thought libraries were cool (Score:4, Funny)
1) If I'm trying to study at home, it's futile because there are too many distractions. So I pack up and head to the local city library. Bonus: the librarian is a cute young girl. Winner: 50000BTU_barbecue
2) One day I bought an old HF sweep generator. (It's hardware folks, so it's not glamorous, but I wanted one). Turns out it's from the late 60s and it needs fixing. It has what has to be the earliest 14 pin DIPs ever, with a date code from 1969. *Nothing* that uses TCP/IP has any information on them! I head down to the local university library, and track down Motorola's *first* IC databook. Bonus: it's impossible to study in Montreal, every thirty seconds it's like 'cute asian chick!' 'amazing half naked legs' 'great ass' Winner: 50000BTU_barbecue
3) The stereotype of the frumpy librarian with glasses might be true on the surface, but once you warm them up, they *are* hot! Bonus: some of them are 6ft tall with amazing legs. Winner: Need I say more?
Michael Moore - Stupid White men (Score:4, Interesting)
Good book, worth a read - ISBN 0141011904
oss4lib (Score:4, Informative)
Librarians are politically active, unlike geeks (Score:5, Insightful)
BTW, I do not say that ALL geeks are not politcally active, or that every geek is a weekday rebel of IP laws. But everyone must agree that too many people here say a lot of shit, and in the end do very little shit about it. Its merely saddening.
The big reason that libraries are cool: (Score:4, Insightful)
Libraries should be left as low tech as possible, to allow the largest group of people possible free and easy access to information.
I respectfully disagree! (Score:4, Interesting)
It is clear that just as computer geeks naturally select themselves as computer people, librarians do the same. They like books, research, and then tend to be very rigid in their outlook on work and life.
In addition to their natural tendancies, the American Library Association [ala.org] has not helped matters. It is controlled by a bunch of introspective, vision-less, and rigid nay-sayers. Go to the ALA web site and see what kinds of literature they are currently offering [ala.org]! See anything about how to design cataloging systems? See much about information management? nope. Then, beyond that, ALA's been very successful locking up big chunks of their corner of the world with locking up job descriptions to ALA accreditation which requires a visionless curriculum [ala.org].
I think it is hopeless until most current library managers a retired and a new crop that is not afraid of innovation and change come to the fore front.
So do I wish Librarians would come to the information party in a contemporary way? Absolutely! Alas I have very little hope that it will happen anytime in the near future.
-- Multics
P.S. at a recent conference I attended, one of the speakers argued "partner with a librarian!" (for research projects, not p0rn) Several of us talked with him after his presentation and said that we'd tried, but they were too far out-of-touch and he replied that his experience was clearly the exception.
And a side point (Score:5, Insightful)
Although I'm not a librarian I think people sometimes lose sight of the fact that libraries are in many ways a foundation of democracy and freedom.
A bit over the top, you say? Well, libraries go hand-in-hand with free education, which most people consider a basic right. They also provide free access to information, often information critical of government or other establishments. Libraries provide uninhibited access to information for rich or poor, white or black. Many of us take for granted the ability to buy a $20 book and read it at our leisure, but just because we're largely a rich society does not magically make your local Barnes & Noble a "noble" enterprise. But your local library is.
In fact, readers of Slashdot who believe in freedom of information should be vehemently in support of libraries as the original source of the concept that information should be freely available to the populace. Recent copyright laws attack the library establishment as much as they do individuals. While the concept of rows of dust-covered tomes my be getting a bit outdated, libraries are actually about education and access to information, not just books...
Every dev group should have a librarian (Score:5, Interesting)
It was the best investment I ever made. It didn't take long before virtually everyone's first stop with a question was the library/librarian. Reference material, competitive info, standards, you name it... the librarian knew how to take piles of information in whatever form and organize it, make it accessible, and make it far more usable to everyone.
If you have a dev group of more than 15-20, your dev group is wasting time and money by not having a professional librarian on the team. It's a job that's part administrivia, part science, and part art. I have yet to find any other discipline that blends those parts as effectively as library science.
(I have to admit I've always had a soft spot for librarians, probably because I spent so much time in libraries. I have also been extremely impressed by librarians understanding of applying technology for information management, and the very progressive ideas that came out of library sciences. That doesn't always translate to high tech libraries or systems, but that's more often than not a funding issue.)