Xbox Runs Its First Legal Homebrew App 360
PineGreen writes: "As Michael Steil, the Xbox Linux project leader says:'On the Xbox Linux website, you can download "linuxpreview," an
application that runs on modded Xboxes and is completeley legal, because
the XDK was not used for development, and it does not contain any
Microsoft code.'. See the X-box logo and Tux on the same screen.
More information here."
Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:2, Funny)
Think how many Linux drivers could have been written for as of yet unsupported hardware for all that effort.
Re:Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:2)
Not At All a Waste of Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Hardly. If widespread modding, driven by a quite likely boom in Divx Movie piracy [slashdot.org], becomes a reality, Xbox Linux could, no doubt much to the horror of "real" Linux folk, become by far the most popular form of consumer/home Linux.
Sometimes success can arrive in unexpected forms.
Re:Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why get all pissy with people who are enjoying themselves and are coding something that could potentially useful? I'm sure folks made similar claims when Linus rolled out his first kernel. "Why a new kernel? What a collosal waste of time! Think of all of the effort that could have been put into writing something for (insert favorite OS from 1993)
That's OK, though. All of us are short sighted in our lives. I used to think the same way about KDE and GNOME. "What collosal wastes of time" I used to think. Fortunately those very talented programmers didn't listen to the naysayers. Now I don't scoff when someone ports Linux to different hardware architectures. Hey, it's their life. Let them have fun with it.
Re:Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't disagree with what you said, but I think that such blind optimism in regards to new hacks must be tempered. There must be some point at which one must be able to differentiate between something good and something that is merely a waste of time. You wouldn't say to someone who has a PhD in Physics that they were doing a good job if they decided they wanted to prove Kepler's laws of planetary motion. It's simply something that's already been done, the amount of insight that the person will contribute to the whole of physics will be minimal. It is at this time that you ought to tell them (assuming you had the authority, which in the Free Software arena means everybody) that their time could be spent doing better things.
Hey, it's their life, why don't we encourage them do something worthwhile and chastise them when they do something lame?
Re:Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:2)
Instead of chastisting those involved for wasting their time, why not encourage the hacking. Hacking keeps the community alive, and spurs other to "do one better". OK, so now we have Linux on a modified XBox; why not get Linux on an unmodified XBox? How about running Apache? Maybe even get SDL ported over to the XBox? Who knows what the limits are? Something that may appears as stupid now may spur off something incredibly clever down the road. Remember, it took many people tying wings to their backs and bikes before someone figured out how to get those various hacks to work right. Who knows if someone down the road might benefit from this. It might even be you/
Re:Hey, Linux running on x86? (Score:3, Funny)
$200,000 Award??? (Score:3, Informative)
So, do they win the $200, 000 Award [slashdot.org]?
Re:$200,000 Award??? (Score:2, Informative)
No, part of the requirement was that it must run on an UNmodded XBox...
Re:$200,000 Award??? (Score:2)
Yes, but the rewards were segmented into different requirements. I believe only $100,000 was ear-marked towards getting unsigned code to run on an unmodified Xbox. The rest of it covers "easier" things such as kernel and XFree drivers.
Re:$200,000 Award??? (Score:2)
From the actual Xbox-Linux.SourceForge.net Press Release [sourceforge.net]:
But please don't be hard on yourself about this, I actually find it quite a strain to be right all the time.Re:$200,000 Award??? (Score:2, Funny)
Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:4, Interesting)
>This is the first legal homebrew application!
>Of course you will need a modded Xbox.
>Microsoft, could you please sign this application?
What does this mean? Does an unmodded Xbox contain a list or some other sort of checking mechanism that only allows certain programs to run on it?
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:3, Informative)
Mods remove the copy checking so that you can run backed up or copied discs.
Not necessarily (Score:3, Insightful)
So the copy is exactly the same as the original, Consequently such hardware CD cloners work even if the original CD is formatted in the HFS, BFS or any other file system type. Even CDs that have been partitioned (want of a better word) & have 2 ISO images burnt onto it, or even both ISO & HFS images on it will burn fine. To the machine its just bips 'n blips.
I've used one of these machines myself. There would be absolutelly no way that a Xbox would be able to tell a original from a cloned CD. As there's no anti-copy protection by-pass measures built in, & as they cant tell the difference between copyrighted & non-copyrighted CDs, owning/making/selling such machines does't break any laws, even if the user does.
Re:Not necessarily (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not necessarily (Score:3, Interesting)
It doesn't take a special drive to copy PSX discs -- just software that will do raw copies of CDs [elby.ch], a CD/DVD-ROM drive that can do raw reads, and a CD burner that can do raw writes (which is most of them nowadays). You don't need special media, either, aside from the fact that some PSX models have lasers that "like" the material of some CD-Rs better than others.
I'm not sure about the X-Box, but it probably has a similar copy-protection scheme. IIRC it also has the requirement that all software be digitally signed by Microsoft to try to stop unlicensed games. (To further discourage unlicensed game-making, legit X-Box DVDs are also burned "backwards" -- that is, instead of going from the inside of the disc to the outside it goes in the opposite direction. I'm not sure how, if at all, this affects copying, since I doubt a raw copy cares what direction it's being done in.)
Re:Not necessarily (Score:2)
Re:Not necessarily (Score:3, Funny)
So you just need to make your Commodore-64 disk nibbler scan all the way out to track 40.
Re:Not necessarily (Score:2)
This sounds a lot like "disk nibblers" from back in the Commodore-64 days. The circle is complete.
Re:backwards data (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:3, Interesting)
A funny story: the another roomate in the same place was into ISOs on IRC. Someone in the channel had a rare Japanese market game ISO. My roomate asked the guy what he wanted. The roomate then copied his windows swap file to whatever.iso (where whatever was the name of the game the guy wanted). They then swapped "ISOs". A day later our firewall was DOSsed. We figure the guy didn't take too kindly to the trade
brave man (Score:4, Funny)
His swap file? Did he grep his swap file to make sure IE didn't swap out his credit card number recently? His home address? Passwords? Site membership username/password pairs? Network crypto credentials? His home machine LanMan and md4 password hashes?
Your friend is a bit too brave and/or not quite smart enough. There's a reason you can encrypt your swap in *BSD and Linux.
He should have half expected to wake up the next morning to a cubic yard of elephant dung and a baker's dozen of giant monogrammed pokemon vibrators charged to his credit card and shipped overnight to his mailing address from central Mongolia. He would have deserved it, I might add. He could have at least tried to get the file on an IOU basis. It's not like the other guy's bandwidth cost him more than his time. If I were the other guy, I'd take the oportunity to make a friend. No skin off my back and a quite useful philosophy. Of course, if your friend enjoys Mongolian elephant dung, giant vibrators, and DOS attacks, who am I to judge?
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:2)
Besides, the irony here is pretty strong -- someone who spends time ripping people off (warezers) is complaining about being ripped off in the process.
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:2)
Something I haven't seen anybody mention, but something that I've read and only partially understand, is that each disc contains bootable information that is encoded in some special way. Making custom software encoded in the same way might would not be so difficult, but I believe it would make such software a violation of the DMCA, just another crutch Microsoft can fall back on if they have to.
So, in a way, yes, the XBox DOES contain some such other checking mechanism that only allows certain programs to run.
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:2)
Ever heard of the DMCA?
-jfedor
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:2, Insightful)
For the DMCA to apply, MS needs some evidence that this will allow pirated osftware to run, and that this hack has been done in order to run pirated software.
Unauthorised apps are not neccesarily pirate apps, and in this particular case, copying the application has been explicitely encouraged by the copyright terms and conditions.
If someone were to extend this hack to allow pirated software to run, then Microsoft would have a case. Until that time, they have to live with it.
Re:Needs signing from Microsoft? (Score:2)
If the courts believe that DeCSS's primary purpose is copying DVD movies illegaly then I think it wouldn't be hard to convince them that the primary purpose of a mod chip is to run pirated games (which just happens to be true, BTW; not that I think they should be banned just because of this).
IANAL and I may be wrong. If I was right then Microsoft would probably go to court already. But from what I understand the Xbox mod chip is a fairly new thing (but if it was possible then Sony might have done something to outlaw Playstation mod chips, which are known for years).
-jfedor
Linux Set Radio: Future (Score:5, Funny)
X-box Linux app (Score:3, Funny)
Re:X-box Linux app (Score:2)
In their first demo, they just have a screen showing the xbox logo and tux.
In the second demo, they have dmesg.
SUHWEET.
Price comparision (Score:2, Insightful)
Pricewatch Total for a
Althon 1.2 chip/Motherboard
128 Megs Ram
20 Gig HD
Case
Cdrom
Network Card
$220
Come on people... Spend $40 more get at get real.. The time/money you save not having to MOD/Play to get linux installed plus the extra power makings using a XboX as a serverfarm just plain stupid
Re:Price comparision (Score:2)
Re:Price comparision (Score:3, Insightful)
People often ask me why I got a linux kit for my ps2... I only tell them that if they have to ask they wouldn't understand.
Also don't you want to screw Microsoft? In order for Microsoft to make any money (or to break even for that matter) they need to sell something like 30 games per xbox user. (They get about $5 per game) Why? Because they are selling the XBox for less than is costs to make. Now say you can get an XBox and install linux (and not buy any games) and you and your friends all do the same and install linux and have fun with it. Microsoft looses a lot of money because you aren't even buying 1 game for the xbox. Therefore Microsoft looses lots of money on the XBox project and then decide to bow out to Sony and Nintendo. It would finally be a place where Microsoft has failed.
That is what I would do... just to screw MS.
However, those screen shots look kindof hokey and I don't actually see linux booting, just one line at the top. Anyone actually get it to work?
Re:Price comparision (Score:2, Interesting)
1 billion / 150 = 6,666,666
That is, if 6 million geeks go out, throw in $200 hard earned cash and purchase one Xbox without buying any games, MS will lose about 1 billion, which really doesn't sting much for Bill Gates. However, the mod chip is likely to do hefty damage because you can bet that 1 out of each 2 Xboxes sold will be modded and it signals that the prospect of profit is dim.
Now look at Linux and BSD. No one needs to throw in $200 investment to slap Microsoft in the face.
But then again, a DivX-VCD-mp3CD set top box sounds like a nice idea. When we come up with even more worth idea for Xbox, I hope the hack will be ready.
Any creative method to screw Microsoft in every possible way is satisfying and I root for those Xbox hackers... on the sideline that is. I hope that I can get an Xbox for $5 next year to put next to the Microsoft Bob CD.
Re:Price comparision (Score:2)
And belive me, they are doing it for fun, not economy.
Re:Price comparision (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Check out motherboard combos for discounts
2. Topic was based on being used as a server.. servers do not need a DVD-ROM drive and a GF2MX
3. The price could be even cheaper if you get a integrated mb/video/network card
Time to debunk this myth. (Score:2)
You make it sound like Microsoft is (still) selling the boxes for less than it costs to make them. Sorry, that isn't the case.
Oh, sure, that might have been true for the first production run when MS was writing down their development costs, doing small hardware volumes and paying the setup charges for plastic molds and the like. Those are all sunk costs now, written off of last year's taxes.
Anybody who still thinks that unit cost of an Xbox now isn't less than what MS sells them to the stores for hasn't looked at the price of bulk lots of components lately. Hell, or even the finished price of a lot of consumer electronics.
I guarantee you that MicroSoft makes money now on every box sold, even if they don't sell any games with it. Gates & co. are laughing all the way to the bank that some anti-microsofters are buying the things because they still think MSFT loses money on the deal.
Re:Time to debunk this myth. (Score:2)
I am not saying you're wrong. I am not saying you're right, either, I just think you have no real way of knowing. What is the price of a 700 MHz Celeron, nowadays? Who the heck knows? You can't find them anywhere, it's an exotic component. For all I (or you) know, it could cost anywhere between $US 3 and $US 100 (because it's so hard to find). Same goes for the 6 GB hard disk.
Re:Time to debunk this myth. (Score:2)
True, I'm not privy to the contracts between Microsoft and its suppliers, so I have no way of knowing for sure. But I know what other things sell for and I know the kind of deals that manufacturers give to large-lot buyers (because it's that much per-item marketing overhead they don't have on a volume sale).
What is the price of a 700 MHz Celeron, nowadays? [..] anywhere between $US 3 and $US 100
My estimate would be closer to the $3 than to the $100. Old technology and Intel has I'm sure long ago made back the investment on the fabs. Similarly with the graphics chip, although that probably costs more than the CPU.
The DVD-ROM drive is probably less than $10 (you can buy cheap ones retail for less than $40, you can buy a consumer DVD player for well under $100. The hard drive might be a little more but not much. The case is a few cents worth of plastic, and so on.
Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:4, Insightful)
What kind of world/reality are we living in, where your own software can be anything else than "legal" ??
What kind of world? (Score:3)
Re:Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:2)
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb15CB32EF3AF9C0E5D727
So what does this do, exactly? (no, I'm not stupid enough to just simply run it)
Re:Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:3, Funny)
So what does this do, exactly? (no, I'm not stupid enough to just simply run it)
I am! It prints out an email address on my machine (omitted for the sake of avoiding harvesters).
Besides, what exactly is it that you're worried about? It's an echo piped to a calculator. About the worst that could happen is it prints something obscene.
Re:Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:4, Insightful)
What kind of world/reality are we living in, where your own software can be anything else than "legal" ??
One where your own code is linked against someone else's libraries [slashdot.org]. The FSF won't let you distribute programs linked against their libraries unless you comply with their license either.
Re:Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:2)
First of all, you are not paying for those "someone else's libraries" so you realy have no claim for a right to use the code.
Secondly, you could always duplicate the functionality of the libraries in question by writing your own code.
Now, in the X-Bos case, you buy the machine it's YOURS, and you have absolutely NO means of duplicating the functionality of the XBox (at least no legal means.
So, please don't compare apples and oranges and claim that since oranges can be sour, it's also ok for apples to be sour.
Re:Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:2)
First of all, you are not paying for those "someone else's libraries" so you realy have no claim for a right to use the code.
I never claimed such a right.
Secondly, you could always duplicate the functionality of the libraries in question by writing your own code.
Now, in the X-Bos case, you buy the machine it's YOURS, and you have absolutely NO means of duplicating the functionality of the XBox (at least no legal means.
Um, what? I wasn't aware of anyone trying to duplicate the functionality of the Xbox. Since they're being sold at a loss, that would be rather pointless.
What's actually happening is that people, who couldn't legally use code that comes with the Xbox Development Kit because that would violate both copyright law, nevertheless managed to write legal software for the Xbox by writing their own code to duplicate the functionality provided by the XDK. The situation is perfectly analogous.
Re:Legal HomeBrew Application ?? (Score:2)
Completely legal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Private property (Score:3, Interesting)
Incidentally, this is how to torpedo them in any propaganda wars. No ultra conservative Republican is going to come out against private property. Once the money changes hands, it is the buyers property.
i agree. (Score:2)
Now the question is; is it legal for you to install a modchip, which bypasses copyright protection? I think we have now entered a gray area.
-Jon
(note: I completely disagree with the DMCA, it's already got me into far too much trouble [chillingeffects.org]
Re:Private property (Score:2)
I mean, if I buy a DVD and want to play it on Linux (legaly) I can't. Isn't this like a lifetime "renting" of hardware? If I can't access play a DVD I own on Hardware I know, then I don't really own anything.
How long until until we are restricted from modifing our hardware as we see fit?
Re:Private property (Score:3, Informative)
How exactly does the DMCA not apply here? Modders (of all console systems) are bypassing technological measures designed to stop illegally copied software from functioning. That it allows you to run Linux on it is irrelevant in the eyes of the law, as the case against 2600 magazine, which they themselves gave up on, establishes the precedent for. See also the Elcomsoft case, but less so. DECSS has no bearing on the actual copying of DVDs, it gives anyone who puts out a DVD the mechanism to control what their media will play on, and the courts have upheld the DMCA's blanket protection of such mechanisms so far as completely constitutional.
The things that an Xbox mod circumvents is such a technological mechanism. The actual purpose of those doing the modding is irrelevant, just as it has been in the Elcomsoft and 2600 Magazine cases, they courts ruled that the circumvention, for any reason, is the illegal activity, not the intent.
Not that I mind that people are doing it, but if you believe that those creating and distributing mod chips for the Xbox are on any kind of solid legal ground, you are fooling yourself. I expect Microsoft has a team of lawyers working hard on creating a case for this, whenever they determine they want to go to trial over it.
Re:Completely legal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Completely legal? (Score:2)
Re:Completely legal? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, wouldn't you know it, several teenagers who weren't old enough to drive got underneath the hood of their parents automobile while dad was away at work. You see, one family had the high end model, and the other didn't. The kids were intrigued. One thing led to another, and next thing you know they were caught and led to jail. They wouldn't have been caught if it weren't for that spectacular joyride lighting up the street across the town.
The same can be said about an xbox near you. It usually takes a kid about two years to learn enough about a computer system to learn its language and make something useful. Usually, these projects are done by the young who have all the free time in the world. And they would consider it a patriotic duty to be caught too. I remember my first computer, a ZX81. It was 13 at the time and it took a few years before I had the ROM dissassembled and controlling the hardware directly. No documentation, no internet. I'm sure the internet and millions of people from countries all over the world can get together and come up with something.
Re:Completely legal? MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
EULAs are a fairy tale (Score:2)
A contract needs several conditions. It needs to be SIGNED. It must offer a tangible benefit to BOTH parties. If I buy an X-Box at WalMart or a game, I have BOUGHT a physical product. Both contain copyrighted material, my use of which is governed by U.S. Copyright law (since I live in the US) but in no way am I bound by any sort of EULA.
The only computer product which I have owned which might have been governed by a EULA was my first Tandy. Before purchasing it I was required to read and sign a contract on five part carbon paper. That would have been a legally binding contract had I not been sixteen years old at the time.
Re:Completely legal? (Score:2, Funny)
"Your honor, today we are going to show that the defendent's activity of running third-party software on our XBox, is clearly a violation of the Endangered Species Act as well as Bigamy laws in most states."
Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure the EULA for the XBox hardware states that you can not modify it and that you can only run authorized applications (games) on it. That being the case, how is this "completely legal"? It seems to me that in order to be completely legal, the software would have to have the proper license from Microsoft in order to run.
Re:Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:4, Insightful)
The only thing I would be worried about is a hardware implimented suicide logic bomb. Let's say Microsoft hid a little calendar watchdog that sends the operating system a special interrupt ever so often, demanding a special answer.
I'm thinking about this from the hardware designer's point of view, if they were smart enough to do this... If the software refuses to honor this request, the watchdog would update the death counter. Let's say they made this counter 4 bits long to be forgiving. When it counts down to zero without being reset, the security watchdog knows for sure rebel scum have defeated the imperial forces. The watchdog then simply sends out some low level hardware instructions through the IO ports for every programmable chip. The logic bombs have been set.
To further obfuscate this event, the hardware could have been designed to trigger the event upon the next power up cycle. Once this state is triggered, the xbox enteres a comotose state and is effectively dead. Or is it? Do they have an option for "factory service" to revive these things? Is the bomb reset by placing a certain IO line at an odd voltage level? Or is it permently latched?
Re:Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:2)
What EULA? (Score:2)
nope - read the box (Score:3, Informative)
Bummer.
Re:nope - read the box (Score:2)
And what if I buy my xbox used [ebay.com]?
Re:nope - read the box (Score:2)
Re:nope - read the box (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:2)
If you didn't have to sign something (not counting a check or credit card slip or something like that) before the store would turn the XBox over to you, then you didn't agree to the EULA.
If you don't want additional rights above and beyond what you would normally have (such as the right to distribute derivative works), then you have no motivation to agree to the EULA.
EULAs are not compulsory. I can't make you agree to a contract without your consent.
Re:Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:2)
It's a physical object. You bought it so you own it. That means you can do any damn thing you want with it. All the manufacturer can do is void the warrantee.
Re:Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:2)
If things were as simple as 'licensing' a product only for a specific use, don't you think Beretta, Colt, etc. would only license firearms for target shooting and approved game hunting? If this would provide a defense against a variety of lawsuits, they would have long ago done this.
Re:Isn't that a contridiction? (Score:2)
How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is there some way MS can paint the event as an illegality of some sort, just to get some court action? After all, they have the rafts of lawyers, and the geeksters don't, so once again the rare and elusive justice can be mis-served by bankrupting the opponent. How about: placing another OS on the XBox constitutes "intent to violate copyright" since obviously you will be after all those game DVDs. The DMCA allegedly forbids circumventing copy protection, so perhaps all MS has to do is get a judge or jury to believe that these 1337 h4xx0r5 were aiming in that direction.
Just curious. I never ask myself if I'm being paranoid -- instead, I ask if I'm being paranoid enough.
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:2)
What Microsoft needs is new legislation that goes beyond DMCA. This shouldn't be a problem. Of course, this requires overt and blatant corruption on the part of legislators, but legislators have demonstrated they're ok with that, and not nearly as squeamish as judges. Once the new law gets passed, the courts can safely enforce it without having to worry about responsibility.
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:2)
Heh, I know we all enjoying making fun of Canadian's, but I was describing our electoral system to one a while back, she stopped me by practically yelling, "What? They have corporate sponsorship? Bribery is illegal in Canada!" She was entirelly befudled by the whole concept of 'soft-money' "It buys as many ads as the hard money, eh?"
My phrases from then on all began with, "But.."
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:4, Insightful)
Or does the DMCA only apply to programmable devices? Thanks to the xbox, will it now be illegal for me to take apart my programmable air conditioner and modify it to be a dehumidifier?
I don't know about you, but when I see a product at the store, I look for its other uses too. Can it be taken apart and modified to suit me better? What parts does it have inside to make my other projects more worthwhile? Does the sum of the parts inside make it worth my purchase? Does the $200 xbox have $700 worth of discrete parts inside for my graphics project? Is the black van parked down the street going to bust down my door and tell me There Are No User Servicable Parts Inside and I should be a good consumer and not do what God had not intended for Adam and Eve were commanded to do? That sounds silly. I see an opportunity.
The xbox is my toy. I find the hardware a challenge. Its the worlds greatest technical challenge. Many people run 26 miles to win a race, but the first to crack this puzzle wins and takes a one-time place in history. There can only be one. Who will it be?
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:2)
How they can say that and "no user serviceable parts inside" is a mystery, unless they have somehow redefined the meaning of the word "inside".
This reminds me of a story that I posted to /. once before (unfortunately, I can't find it right now) about when I used to work as a PC technician. For a while, the HP Pavilion (home user) series PCs came with a small shiny sticker stratgically placed so that you couldn't open the case without tearing the sticker. This dissuaded roughly 95% of users from ever opening the case, even though what was printed on the sticker was: "Opening the case will NOT void warranty" or something along those lines.
For the average user, who probably doesn't want to know how it works on the inside anyway, it doesn't take much to discourage them from ever opening the box.
Re:How Can MS Effectively Prosecute This? (Score:2)
Sitting behind a soldering iron all day only guarantees a shirt full of burn holes
Waste of time? I think not (Score:3, Funny)
It is more than that! As with every product for consumers the way people hear about them is through advertising...pure and simple.
So every time Microsoft says they don't want linux being run on their hardware, it not only "bugs" M$ but it also gives Linux free publicity. Hell, if I were IBM, Red Hat et al. I would being running linux on anything and everything Microsoft just for the propaganada value alone!
No such thing as bad press, and this only makes Microsoft seem like a corrupt organization bent on making computing their way or the highway. Let 'em, to paraphrase Leia "The more they tighten their grip the more [operating] systems will slip through their grasp"
--Joey
Bill still goes to the bank (Score:2, Troll)
Real games (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Waste of Time (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2, Insightful)
Intel 733 processor with only 128k Cache
Only 64 Megs of ram
5400 RPM Drives With only 10 gigs active
No Standard VGA Port for a monitor
So all in all this would make one SHITTY server, not worth the time and effort for most people..
You would be better off going to walmart and picking up a Lindows computer and using that as a server before you bothered to touch this.
Any geek with the skilz to use this for a server could just as easy build his own system for not much more and it would perform ALOT better as a server then this would.
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2)
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2)
Do you think they would make good web clients?
I was thinking of putting together a cheap diskless workstation for casual web browsing in the study (a la LTSP). It would boot off the server in the basement.
But if I could do the same with an XBox and take a couple hundred bucks out of MS's pockets, all the better!
I also hear.. (Score:2)
Imagine that!
Re:Waste of Time (Score:3, Interesting)
I have often wondered why Linux has been ported to just about even processor under the sun. I have thought it was such a waste because that intelligence could be making Linux better for platform processors more supported. However, I have seen this as a great way to draw interest to Linux. It has become an attention getter -- I mean, who has a Microsoft Windows watch? Plus, most of the people working on these side projects are strongly focused on other Linux ventures, and these make nice breaks in their daily grind of coding. Most of all, though, it revives that hacker spirit some have lost -- make something work against all odds; learn the system in and out; and, do the impossible!
Re:Waste of Time (Score:5, Insightful)
(I can almost hear you all gasping.)
To all of you hackers that have influenced and contributed to progams that I use: Thank you!
To all of you hackers that spend your time doing things that I find utterly useless: Have fun!
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2, Interesting)
I feel that this is the biggest difference between the open source spirit and communism - that an open source developer only serves his/her own interest, but a communist is contributing to the group. The former motivates; the later does not.
If you can smash pie on Bill Gate's face as a hobbie, wouldn't you be happy to spend hours and hours doing it?
Re:Waste of Time (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Make a microsoft sponsored linux box / workstation (they loose money on the hardware, so what could be sweeter!)
2) Make a microsoft sponsored DVD / MPG / DivX / MP3 player
3) Make a microsoft sponsored Top set box
4) Make a nice quiet, cheap, fast enough, linux web / email / ftp server / etc, sponsored by microsoft!
5) All of the above?
Personaly i can not wait. The xbox is nice and small, and still relativly quiet. I think my first use for it will be to hook up a (usb?) network to it, and use it to play movies and mp3's from my server on my tv, saving my self the hassle of having to drag around notebooks or dedicate a big, ugly noisy pc to that function.
Then hook up a nice wireless usb keyboard w/ intergrated trackball, and do a full screen galeon to create a nice web surfing / topset box experiance from the comfort of my couch.
Then maybe hook up all the posible home automation gimics to a nice interface thru the xbox / tv, and be able to control my house from my tv?
Then, install some tv cards on my server, and pipe its output to the xbox
Also, I wonder if my current colocation facility will accept xbox's ?
Man, the posibilities are endless, for a little under 300 bucks (and going down) and the sheere thought of microsoft sponsoring my linux projects, it's worth every bit of effort these developers are putting in to it!
Re:Waste of Time (Score:3)
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2)
Isn't there some saying about free software developers? Something about them only developing something they have an itch to do?
The fact of the matter is that not *everybody* wants to better the Linux community and not *everybody* wants to program what everyone else wants them to program. The simple answer to the question:
"Do I want to
1. Run a webserver on a Xbox?
2. Run games on a linux box?"
Anyways, this isn't intended as a flame. This is just the facts as I see them.
Re:Waste of Time (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2)
Why waste your time getting linux to run on a Microsuck product?
Why waste time dealing with closed hardware?
Because it's there?
Less flippantly, one of Linux's strong points is the ability to put otherwise wasted hardware to good use. I think that pretty much sums up the X-Box - why cripple a perfectly good PC to use as a game console when there are other [playstation.com] purpose-built [nintendo.com] alternatives?
Remember The Goodies [wikipedia.com] motto: "Anything, Anywhere, Anytime."
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2)
Why waste your time getting linux to run on a Microsuck product?
Why waste time dealing with closed hardware?
If these people really wanted to do the linux community any good there time would be better spent developing a linux gaming console on everyday stock hardware.
I mean really lets think about this.
Do I want to
1. Run a webserver on a Xbox?
2. Run games on a linux box?
Which one makes more sense?
Let me restate your argument from a different point of view.
Why waste time getting an open source OS to run on PC hardware?
Why waste time dealing with an OS that has no useful software for it?
If these people really wanted to do the PC user community any good their time would be better spent developing shareware on everyday stock Windows OSes.
I mean really, let's think about this...
Do I want to:
1. Run Spreadsheets/Wordprocessing on Linux?
2. Run network servers on Windows?
Which one makes more sense?
Re:Waste of Time (Score:2)
This is going to be very important in the years ahead.
Re:SETI@Home? (Score:4, Interesting)
-jfedor