A New Low for Web Advertisers: Pop-Up Downloads
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Apr 08, 2002 09:31 AM
from the measuring-new-lows-jinxes-us-all dept.
from the measuring-new-lows-jinxes-us-all dept.
rizzmanix writes: "I thougt it was strange that I had been getting a lot of pop-up download prompts for the Gator software as I browsed around the web in the recent days. Why were all these sites requiring this Gator thing I wondered?
Well I wonder no more... as apparently advertisers hit a new low by running 'pop-up downloads' instead of pop-up ads. Sneaky, underhanded, nasty and vile."
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A New Low for Web Advertisers: Pop-Up Downloads
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a followup link (Score:5, Informative)
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:5, Insightful)
For you and others like you, it specifically states that a pop-up box appears and requires the user to accept the download, and they rely on the fact that 99.999999% of the non-slashdot population immediately assumes it is something they need and click "Yes".
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing that "society" tries to do is protect the average joe from the consequences of ignorance. Why do that, you ask? Why not let Darwin take his course? Because as our wealth grows and our world becomes more complex, everyone is ignorant about some areas of life. And today, everyone is ignorant about most things that keep us alive (dug your own well lately?).
So let's be careful here - just because Slashdotters know better than to click on that Yes doesn't mean everyone does or should.
sPh
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:5, Interesting)
I've seen sites (cardcentral.net) that use JavaScript to put their own dialog over everything but the Yes/No buttons on the download box. The dialog box appeared to be something along the lines of "Security warning: You are infected with a virus. Clean?"
Pop up download (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a major security issue, and clearly by default the only warning in MSIE is a dialog box, which you may already have set to just accept downloads automatically.
Yet another reason to use non-standard browsers and non Windows OS, so that you even if you end up with an executable it won't execute.
Wow, this is lame (Score:5, Insightful)
What programs do this? I've never, ever seen a webbrowser that automatically installs stuff. At least not until you specifically specify for that site only (like MS Updates, or Station.Sony.com)
"But those horror stories are the exception. More typically, software makers are simply using the downloads to distribute legitimate products."
Legitimate products don't automatically download onto my computer without my concent.
Re:Wow, this is lame (Score:5, Informative)
IE will happily install stuff without prompting if that's the way the security is set up; eg, if you set the "Internet Zone" (or whatever) to "Low" security, it will automatically download any signed ActiveX control.
why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Informative)
I've not seen a popup in months and months. It's fantastic.
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Insightful)
What a load of horse pucky.
I understand that websites have to generate revenue, and that the current method is moving more toward pop-up/under ads. That's fine. That doesn't mean I have to subject myself to it. As an informed consumer I have the right to ignore the ads in whatever way I deem fit, whether that means closing the windows as they come up or telling my computer to not allow them to render in the first place.
Should a browser default to stopping pop-ups? Hell no. It breaks too many sites that use pop-ups for additional help/information windows, sites that load links in a new window, etc. But I should certainly have the option to kill pop-ups if I want to enable it (and preferably with a quick key to reenable them - like Popup Stopper [panicware.com] has).
Want to argue otherwise? Go for it. You also watch every commercial on TV, right? No getting up to go to the bathroom/kitchen. No recording it to VCR or PVR and fast forwarding/skipping through the commercials. Because if you are then, by your own definition, you are immoral. Maybe even commiting a crime!
Oh, and do you read every ad in a magazine? Do you throw out those blown-in/tear-out cards in magazines before someone else can read them? Do you read every billboard that passes by while in a car? EVERY TIME?
I don't think so.
And yes, I know this was a troll. Congrats. But this kind of thinking might actually get some people that nod and drool "yes", and it's so abundantly stupid it needs to be shut down before hand.
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:4, Informative)
It's been more usable than 4.x for months. Recent releases are very stable. Startup time is about on par with Opera here (~3s when cached, next to ~2s for Opera).
4.x lacks usable CSS (and this is very important for modern sites.. the only reason most sites still work is because most sites still use techniques from 1995; I don't), and has laughable table layout code (it was made with basic HTML-for-tabular-data in mind, not triple nested layout tables); these alone make it pretty much useless to me.
If I didn't use Opera, I'd probably use Mozilla; at least I can trust it to Do The Right Thing (usually) when I'm developing sites; then I can go add my IE5/6/NS workarounds afterwards.
> Does it do any nasty or weird stuff on some sites?
IE6 does nasty and weird stuff on W3.org/Style (fixed positioning isn't supported, but it still processes the position: fixed; directive, meaning you can't do "position: absolute;position: fixed;" like you're supposed to. Argh.).
IE5 does nasty and weird stuff on every site that uses the CSS box model; it gets the sizes wrong on all boxes, meaning you need to exploit parser bugs to provide IE5 with tweaked sizes for it to work properly (and then provide Opera 5, which suffers the same parser bug, with real values).
NS4 does nasty and weird stuff when you specify an element should float: anywhere; it makes it completely unusable to use CSS layouts on it without spending months debugging an absolutely positioned workaround-nightmare.
Not seen Mozilla (or Opera) do anything this broken
PR0N (Score:5, Funny)
-Russ
Ooh, wait. What I meant was my FRIENDS have seen stuff like this and told me about it. Wait, I don't have friends that look at pr0n either... umm. I read about this sort of thing, yeah. That's it...
Re:PR0N (Score:4, Funny)
well, we've bene using IRC forever, but it is still a good source.
Yet another (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of these advertising techniques either rely on browsers (or users) who don't or can't disable popups easily. (read: 90% of the internet explorer population.) Or they rely on Internet Explorer specific techniques, e.g. windowless flash animations (transparent backgrounds) for shoshkeles, etc.
I think it's time the antivirus companies step up to the plate for the average consumer, and add blocking/filtering to the AV clients. Maybe it's overkill, but if you could tag these popup downloads as a potential virus (or at least unauthorized use of your computer) the world would be a better place. Or, create some add-ons to mozilla which filter popups against a database (ala the defunct spamcop) popupcop?
When something is sold as "advertising" but is nothing less than an attempt to trick or confuse a person into purchasing, downloading or installing your software, that's misrepresentation and/or fraud. Regardless of any 2pt fine-print at the bottom, or "user agreement" on the page. Hard to stop them, though.
Sounds like Nimda :) (Score:4, Interesting)
Underhanded Purest Evil (Score:3, Insightful)
I was completely shocked when the gator icon mysteriously appeared and greeted me. I removed the little bastard immediately. However, I let a long sigh as I realized it would come back shortly.
So last night I decided to go with mozilla and live with whatever problems it may bring.
The mozilla team should thank the gator software company and evil commie bastard marketing reps around the world.
Really nasty variety (Score:3, Interesting)
Many sites try to coerce users (especially kids) into installing
"high-speed" or "priority" internet dialers that in reality just change the default internet
connection to an extremely expensive number. By the time you
get the phone bill, it's often in the four-figures. The telco
doesn't want to be responsible since they just rent out the
numbers, and the companies that rent them are also mostly resellers with
with the final "customers" mostly being based outside Germany.
Question about Gator specifically (Score:3, Interesting)
So my question is: Is there anyone who actually WANTS the software? Or are ALL copies there because someone accidentally downloaded it and doesn't know how to remove it.
Re:Question about Gator specifically (Score:4, Informative)
As Gator has evolved it's become more and more malicious; popping up ads when I'm browsing is the most annoying, but also it's started placing its own ads over banner ads on web pages - that doesn't annoy me any more than the banner ads would but I think it's a pretty evil practice and I don't want to support it.
The only reason I've kept using Gator is that I have a large investment in terms of the passwords I have stored in it, but there are other, better ways to take care of that problem. At this point I run Gator with it completely blocked by firewall software, so it can't update itself and it can't download ads or offers. If you delete everything in C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\GMT\BANNERS you'll get rid of the ads it's already downloaded.
Re:Question about Gator specifically (Score:5, Informative)
Grab RoboForm [roboform.com] instead. It's freeware and it doesn't have any ads nor does it contain spyware. It'll even let you import all your Gator passwords. There's absolutely no reason to keep using Gator.
Coming soon on Slashdot: (Score:5, Funny)
Do you wish to install this file? YES / NO
If yes, please do the following:
- Download file and save to
- cd
- tar xvzf slashpopup.tar.gz
- cd slashpopup
-
- make
- su
- make install
....Finished!
Consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)
This clutter has created a haven for pop-up downloads because consumers find it hard to determine the ad's origin.
Gator isn't the only software maker using this tactic to add consumers.
"Consumers want control of their PCs," Gator President Jeff McFadden said in a statement.
Why am I a consumer just because I am accessing the Internet? The problem here is not the pop-up technology, but the unwritten assumption (perpetuated by the author of the report) that we are all just mindless "consumers of product" that need to be targeted by ads.
Only when this mindset is abandoned will we see an end to attention grabbing and demographic gathering.
You Are a Minority (Score:5, Interesting)
I think we'll only be able to escape the constant bombardment of advertisments (And skript kiddie attacks and all the other comparatively recent crap) by establishing our own network on top of the internet. It's easy to do and we're technically capable of doing it.
thiefware.com on Gator Auto-install/ActiveX (Score:4, Informative)
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]
Mozilla (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Popup warning dialog (Score:5, Informative)
Add them to the Restricted Sites zone. That will (by default) keep them from running any code, including signed and unsigned ActiveX, and even cookies.