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A New Low for Web Advertisers: Pop-Up Downloads

Posted by timothy on Mon Apr 08, 2002 09:31 AM
from the measuring-new-lows-jinxes-us-all dept.
rizzmanix writes: "I thougt it was strange that I had been getting a lot of pop-up download prompts for the Gator software as I browsed around the web in the recent days. Why were all these sites requiring this Gator thing I wondered? Well I wonder no more... as apparently advertisers hit a new low by running 'pop-up downloads' instead of pop-up ads. Sneaky, underhanded, nasty and vile."
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  • a followup link (Score:5, Informative)

    by (arg!)Styopa (232550) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:34AM (#3302852)
    www.scumware.com
  • And for those still on dialup by Dead Penis Bird (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:34AM
  • Pop up download (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fruey (563914) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:35AM (#3302860) Homepage Journal
    Scares the hell out of me. Whoever does this should get their sites DoSsed immediately.

    This is a major security issue, and clearly by default the only warning in MSIE is a dialog box, which you may already have set to just accept downloads automatically.

    Yet another reason to use non-standard browsers and non Windows OS, so that you even if you end up with an executable it won't execute.
  • waiting by CrazyDwarf (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:36AM
  • Gator info by billmaly (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:37AM
  • Wow, this is lame (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sc00ter (99550) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:37AM (#3302870) Homepage
    "In some cases, people are not even asked whether they want the software. It just installs on the hard drive--a particularly troublesome tactic that some have dubbed "drive-by download."

    What programs do this? I've never, ever seen a webbrowser that automatically installs stuff. At least not until you specifically specify for that site only (like MS Updates, or Station.Sony.com)

    "But those horror stories are the exception. More typically, software makers are simply using the downloads to distribute legitimate products."

    Legitimate products don't automatically download onto my computer without my concent.

  • why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Informative)

    by cetan (61150) <cetan_post@yahoo.com> on Monday April 08 2002, @09:37AM (#3302875) Journal
    Since 0.9.4, mozilla users have had the ability to block onload and unload pop-ups/unders. I've had zero problems with this. It doesn't block pop-ups you request, just the ones you don't.

    I've not seen a popup in months and months. It's fantastic.
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by Picass0 (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:58AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by cmckay (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @10:09AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by Zathrus (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:37AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by WhaDaYaKnow (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:48AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • More Mozilla tips by bertilow (Score:3) Monday April 08 2002, @11:52AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by daviddennis (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:52AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by ratbert6 (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @11:56AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by 3Bees (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @12:23PM
    • yah by sulli (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @12:28PM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by p0ppe (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @12:30PM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by jesser (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @12:55PM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by LafinJack (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @01:03PM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by jacobb (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @01:09PM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by cetan (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:22AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zathrus (232140) on Monday April 08 2002, @10:34AM (#3303231) Homepage
      Look if you don't want to view a site's ads, then don't go to the site. It is as simple as that. Blocking certain portions of a site's content because you don't personally want to see it is definitely immoral and arguably illegal

      What a load of horse pucky.

      I understand that websites have to generate revenue, and that the current method is moving more toward pop-up/under ads. That's fine. That doesn't mean I have to subject myself to it. As an informed consumer I have the right to ignore the ads in whatever way I deem fit, whether that means closing the windows as they come up or telling my computer to not allow them to render in the first place.

      Should a browser default to stopping pop-ups? Hell no. It breaks too many sites that use pop-ups for additional help/information windows, sites that load links in a new window, etc. But I should certainly have the option to kill pop-ups if I want to enable it (and preferably with a quick key to reenable them - like Popup Stopper [panicware.com] has).

      Want to argue otherwise? Go for it. You also watch every commercial on TV, right? No getting up to go to the bathroom/kitchen. No recording it to VCR or PVR and fast forwarding/skipping through the commercials. Because if you are then, by your own definition, you are immoral. Maybe even commiting a crime!

      Oh, and do you read every ad in a magazine? Do you throw out those blown-in/tear-out cards in magazines before someone else can read them? Do you read every billboard that passes by while in a car? EVERY TIME?

      I don't think so.

      And yes, I know this was a troll. Congrats. But this kind of thinking might actually get some people that nod and drool "yes", and it's so abundantly stupid it needs to be shut down before hand.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by ChristTrekker (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @10:46AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:4, Informative)

      by Fweeky (41046) <tom.hurst@clara.net> on Monday April 08 2002, @10:59AM (#3303401) Homepage
      > What's the current status with mozilla? Is it as usable as Netscape 4.x (I hate 6.x)?

      It's been more usable than 4.x for months. Recent releases are very stable. Startup time is about on par with Opera here (~3s when cached, next to ~2s for Opera).

      4.x lacks usable CSS (and this is very important for modern sites.. the only reason most sites still work is because most sites still use techniques from 1995; I don't), and has laughable table layout code (it was made with basic HTML-for-tabular-data in mind, not triple nested layout tables); these alone make it pretty much useless to me.

      If I didn't use Opera, I'd probably use Mozilla; at least I can trust it to Do The Right Thing (usually) when I'm developing sites; then I can go add my IE5/6/NS workarounds afterwards.

      > Does it do any nasty or weird stuff on some sites?

      IE6 does nasty and weird stuff on W3.org/Style (fixed positioning isn't supported, but it still processes the position: fixed; directive, meaning you can't do "position: absolute;position: fixed;" like you're supposed to. Argh.).

      IE5 does nasty and weird stuff on every site that uses the CSS box model; it gets the sizes wrong on all boxes, meaning you need to exploit parser bugs to provide IE5 with tweaked sizes for it to work properly (and then provide Opera 5, which suffers the same parser bug, with real values).

      NS4 does nasty and weird stuff when you specify an element should float: anywhere; it makes it completely unusable to use CSS layouts on it without spending months debugging an absolutely positioned workaround-nightmare.

      Not seen Mozilla (or Opera) do anything this broken :)
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by Nugget (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:20AM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by shepd (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @05:00PM
    • Re:why mozilla rules here by Fjord (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @07:22PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Pop-ups? by FFNieko (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:38AM
    • Re:Pop-ups? by ect0plasm (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @10:58AM
      • Re:Pop-ups? by WhiteKnight07 (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @01:53PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Makes me appreciate OmniWeb by jlower (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:38AM
  • PR0N (Score:5, Funny)

    by rbeattie (43187) <russ@russellbeattie.com> on Monday April 08 2002, @09:38AM (#3302886) Homepage
    I've seen this thing before on pr0n sites... once again they're leading the way on the web. I never thought that traditional advertisers would stoop this low, though. I wonder what's next?

    -Russ

    Ooh, wait. What I meant was my FRIENDS have seen stuff like this and told me about it. Wait, I don't have friends that look at pr0n either... umm. I read about this sort of thing, yeah. That's it...
    • Re:PR0N (Score:4, Funny)

      by laserjet (170008) on Monday April 08 2002, @10:39AM (#3303270) Homepage
      You still go to pr0n sites? Man.. that is SO 90s!. Nowadays we use peer-to-peer file sharing and IRC to get our wares.
      well, we've bene using IRC forever, but it is still a good source. :)

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:PR0N by sewagemaster (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @12:09PM
      • Re:PR0N by pommiekiwifruit (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @01:58PM
    • Re:PR0N by jhaberman (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @12:14PM
      • Re:PR0N by rudiger (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @12:27PM
      • Re:PR0N by Eil (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @05:50PM
      • Re:PR0N by Fjord (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @07:26PM
    • Re:PR0N by jesser (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @03:02PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Yet another (Score:5, Insightful)

    by llamalicious (448215) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:40AM (#3302892) Journal
    Yet another reason to browse with Mozilla or Opera with onLoad (or all) popups disabled.

    Most of these advertising techniques either rely on browsers (or users) who don't or can't disable popups easily. (read: 90% of the internet explorer population.) Or they rely on Internet Explorer specific techniques, e.g. windowless flash animations (transparent backgrounds) for shoshkeles, etc.

    I think it's time the antivirus companies step up to the plate for the average consumer, and add blocking/filtering to the AV clients. Maybe it's overkill, but if you could tag these popup downloads as a potential virus (or at least unauthorized use of your computer) the world would be a better place. Or, create some add-ons to mozilla which filter popups against a database (ala the defunct spamcop) popupcop?

    When something is sold as "advertising" but is nothing less than an attempt to trick or confuse a person into purchasing, downloading or installing your software, that's misrepresentation and/or fraud. Regardless of any 2pt fine-print at the bottom, or "user agreement" on the page. Hard to stop them, though.
  • The PrOn world has already been doing this! by bovinewasteproduct (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:40AM
  • in 2003... by cmckay (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:40AM
    • Re:in 2003... by Servo5678 (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:52AM
    • Re:in 2003... by danro (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @10:38AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Well, what do you want? by osgeek (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:41AM
  • Put the gun down! by YouAreFatMan (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:41AM
  • Sounds like Nimda :) (Score:4, Interesting)

    by possible (123857) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:41AM (#3302904)
    What's interesting and revealing about Gator's approach is that the well-known Nimda [cert.org] worm spread by injecting popup download code into IIS-served web pages, exploiting a vulnerability in Internet Explorer that caused the user NOT to be prompted before the dowloaded program executed.
  • Underhanded Purest Evil (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Cylix (55374) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:41AM (#3302905) Homepage Journal
    This happened last night I'm afraid...

    I was completely shocked when the gator icon mysteriously appeared and greeted me. I removed the little bastard immediately. However, I let a long sigh as I realized it would come back shortly.

    So last night I decided to go with mozilla and live with whatever problems it may bring.

    The mozilla team should thank the gator software company and evil commie bastard marketing reps around the world.
  • "Sneaky, underhanded, nasty, and vile"??? by Wakko Warner (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:42AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Really nasty variety (Score:3, Interesting)

    by -brazil- (111867) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:42AM (#3302907) Homepage
    This kind of thing has been making headlines in Germany recently.
    Many sites try to coerce users (especially kids) into installing
    "high-speed" or "priority" internet dialers that in reality just change the default internet
    connection to an extremely expensive number. By the time you
    get the phone bill, it's often in the four-figures. The telco
    doesn't want to be responsible since they just rent out the
    numbers, and the companies that rent them are also mostly resellers with
    with the final "customers" mostly being based outside Germany.
  • Question about Gator specifically (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Carmody (128723) <slashdot AT dougshaw DOT com> on Monday April 08 2002, @09:42AM (#3302909) Homepage Journal
    Does anybody actually like the software? I accidentally installed it once, before I had heard about "spyware" and "scumware" and I just found it completely annoying. Now that I think about it - I had to do a google search to find out how to remove it, and that's when I first learned about that sort of thing.

    So my question is: Is there anyone who actually WANTS the software? Or are ALL copies there because someone accidentally downloaded it and doesn't know how to remove it.
    • Re:Question about Gator specifically by ShoeHead (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:53AM
    • Re:Question about Gator specifically (Score:4, Informative)

      by romkey (145460) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:58AM (#3303014) Homepage
      I started using Gator because Ebates [ebates.com] suggested it... I like Ebates a lot and they were suggesting (not even pushing) Gator because of its form-management and password remembering functions, which weren't commonly available in browsers at that point. At that time, Gator was more of a helpful tool than a malignant advertising injector.

      As Gator has evolved it's become more and more malicious; popping up ads when I'm browsing is the most annoying, but also it's started placing its own ads over banner ads on web pages - that doesn't annoy me any more than the banner ads would but I think it's a pretty evil practice and I don't want to support it.

      The only reason I've kept using Gator is that I have a large investment in terms of the passwords I have stored in it, but there are other, better ways to take care of that problem. At this point I run Gator with it completely blocked by firewall software, so it can't update itself and it can't download ads or offers. If you delete everything in C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\GMT\BANNERS you'll get rid of the ads it's already downloaded.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Question about Gator specifically by genka (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @10:40AM
  • What a guy! by Shoten (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:43AM
  • IE Only? by Evro (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:43AM
    • Re:IE Only? by Evro (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:49AM
      • Re:IE Only? by Stonehand (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:02AM
      • Re:IE Only? by scott1853 (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:14AM
      • Re:IE Only? by rednuhter (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @11:07AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • History Repeating? by baturkey (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:45AM
  • Coming soon on Slashdot: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Vic (6867) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:45AM (#3302920) Homepage
    Pretty soon we'll see pop-ups that say:

    Do you wish to install this file? YES / NO

    If yes, please do the following:
    - Download file and save to /tmp
    - cd /tmp
    - tar xvzf slashpopup.tar.gz
    - cd slashpopup
    - ./configure (For help with options, do ./configure --help)
    - make
    - su
    - make install
    ....Finished!
  • along those lines by waspleg (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:45AM
  • Those unmitigated scoundrels... by drenehtsral (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:45AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Legitimate Products???? by reaper20 (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:46AM
  • what did you expect by tanveer1979 (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:46AM
  • Consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stiletto (12066) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:47AM (#3302943) Homepage
    "Do you accept this download?" If the consumer clicks "Yes," an application is automatically installed.

    This clutter has created a haven for pop-up downloads because consumers find it hard to determine the ad's origin.

    Gator isn't the only software maker using this tactic to add consumers.

    "Consumers want control of their PCs," Gator President Jeff McFadden said in a statement.

    Why am I a consumer just because I am accessing the Internet? The problem here is not the pop-up technology, but the unwritten assumption (perpetuated by the author of the report) that we are all just mindless "consumers of product" that need to be targeted by ads.

    Only when this mindset is abandoned will we see an end to attention grabbing and demographic gathering.
    • You Are a Minority (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Greyfox (87712) on Monday April 08 2002, @10:12AM (#3303087) Homepage
      Most of the people on the internet are in fact consumers. The mindset will not be abandoned because more and more consumers are getting on the net every day, which means us techies are becoming an increasing minority.

      I think we'll only be able to escape the constant bombardment of advertisments (And skript kiddie attacks and all the other comparatively recent crap) by establishing our own network on top of the internet. It's easy to do and we're technically capable of doing it.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Consumers? by llamalicious (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:21AM
      • Re:Consumers? by jgerman (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:36AM
    • Re:Consumers? by Xerithane (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:34AM
      • Re:Consumers? by Syberghost (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:52AM
        • Re:Consumers? by Xerithane (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @12:50PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Consumers? by Winged Cat (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @11:52AM
    • Re:Consumers? by bilbobuggins (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @11:59AM
    • Re:Consumers? by pamzella (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @03:45PM
    • Re:Consumers? by rhizome (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @07:18PM
    • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • snood by trb (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:48AM
    • Re:snood by Misch (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:00AM
      • Re:snood by trb (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:49AM
    • Bonzi by drewness (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @03:32PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by Seth Finkelstein (90154) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:49AM (#3302954) Homepage Journal
    Take a look at this report about Gator [gator.com] at http://www.thiefware.com/info/data.gator.shtml [thiefware.com]
    People are still complaining that Gator is getting installed on their computers with little advanced warning and in many instances, people do not know that Gator is being installed until the next time they turn on their computer. The user should always have the option to click on a download link but instead Gator partner sites use the automatic ActiveX download/installation program.

    Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]

  • Yahoo is selling them now, too by echucker (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:49AM
  • This happened to me... by jhines0042 (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:50AM
  • Mozilla (Score:4, Informative)

    by macdaddy (38372) on Monday April 08 2002, @09:50AM (#3302962) Homepage Journal
    To go along with the Opera folks out there, I've got to chime in and say I absolutely love being able to filter unsolicited popups. God I love that feature. It makes browsing pron sites soo much better. Also disable the window resizing shit. No longer will popup bastards resize a window beyond your screensize!
    • Re:Mozilla by Mawbid (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @10:54AM
  • Increase digital divide? by marcovje (Score:1) Monday April 08 2002, @09:51AM
  • Popup warning dialog by ZaneMcAuley (Score:2) Monday April 08 2002, @09:52AM