Nokia's $400 Linux Terminal For The Masses 162
acoopersmith writes: "In the San Jose Mercury News coverage of the recent Consumer Electronics Show was this article about the new Nokia "Media Terminal" - a device that's designed as a cross between a TiVo and a WebTV, but which is really a Linux PC, including USB& FireWire ports for attaching additional storage, scanners, and printers, and other expansion capabilities. Has the hacker-friendly "appliance" finally arrived?"
On screen (Score:2)
Lowering the cost of modern PC technology allows a new set of consumers to enjoy it. I'm glad Nokia made a provision that may better cater to their needs.
Re:Hypocrisy!! (Score:1)
Re:TV and Computers finally start to merge. (Score:1)
Re:Now what's a hacker to do??? (Score:1)
I wonder which is the bigger challange... installing linux on a tv box designed to run windoze, or to install windoze on a tv box designed to run linux?
Are you kidding? Sometimes it's tough enough trying to install windoze on a box designed to run windoze! =)Are the Import-Restricted? (Score:1)
$400??? (Score:1)
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
Well, consider Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs [connect.net]. While entertainment certainly doesn't come into play with physiological and safety needs (your examples of the homeless person and the earthquake victim, respectively,) once one reaches the third and subsequent level of the hierarchy, the value of entertainment can be quite high. Bear with me on this one.
Consider, for a moment, that your basic physiological and safety needs are met. You live in a permanent domicile, you have a steady job, and you are in no forseeable danger of losing your physiological or safety needs. Thus, you are free to pursue the remaining three needs: Love/Affection/Belongingness, Esteem, and Self-Actualization needs. For various reasons, not many people ever succeed in pursuing all three of the above. Some people manage to find love, but never chase their dreams and opportunities. Others have powerful personalities and vast success, but lack anyone to share this with. Even more people live day to day, alone, without achievement or pride, going through the motions of life.
I see entertainment as a means of filling these gaps. People who couldn't run a mile without collapsing regularly watch professional sports, absorbing the abilites of the atheletes in place of their own inadequacies. People watch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" and go window shopping to fill percieved shortcomings in their own career achievements. People purchase self-affirming Chicken-Soup-style books and buy into things like the Spice Girls' "Girl Power" to artificially bolster their own lacking self-esteem. All of the above are forms of entertainment; entertainment allows us to feel better about who we are.
In addition to making us feel better about who we are, though, entertainment can provide a very real impetus for self-improvement. Kids watch Michael Jordan play basketball and set themselves to become professional atheletes. Some even succeed; many others gain a valuable appreciation for physical conditioning and personal health that lasts their entire lives. People go to the theater, the opera, or the films to introduce new thoughts to their minds, and to help themselves grow intellectually. People visit singles bars and clubs searching for friendship and love; quite often, they find it. Entertainment, beyond being a simple diversion, becomes the very means for delving deeper into these last three levels of need.
Computer entertainment brings exciting new possibilites. One can play Quake with people you've known for years but never met in person. One becomes capable of flying, space exploration, and gravity-defying acrobatics without having to leave one's seat. One can even make a fulfilling career out of computer entertainment, acting as a developer, guide, advice columnist, commentator, or any number of things. Computer entertainment provides a degree and depth of interaction that surpasses all other forms of entertainment except face-to-face interaction with another human being.
Yes, the applications for computers are wide-ranging, but rarely carry much personal importance for the user. It's wonderful to have a fully-geatured word processor, powerful database, and security services. But these things have little immediate value to the individual user, even if you use them every day for work. Unless your self-actualization needs are met by them (for example, your life's work is designing and developing screamingly fast database servers, and you take great pride in what you do,) it's not as important to you as doing something entertaining. Like playing Solitare or Minesweeper, or finally fragging that really good player in Norway (and getting "whoa, nice shot" in return.)
This, in my opinion, is why entertainment-based computing devices will play a huge role in the future of computing. I'm good with SQL and I make a living off coding web sites, but I enjoy picking people off from 1 km with the Sniper Rifle in Tribes. I like coding, but it's what pays the bills. (Mind you, I've been spending a lot more time running around the city with my wife than gaming, but hey, that's more fun to me right now.)
After you've fulfilled the basics of survival and are living a relatively safe life, entertainment becomes quite valuable. It helps you forget your own shortcomings, while simultaneously providing the opportunity to learn how to overcome them.
information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.
Re:Buzzwords (Score:1)
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
Ever thought we may end up like Wells' Eloi?
Or as an enslaved, mindless, soma phreak like in Huxley's Brave New World? (the McCarthy inspired Anti-Communist undertones will DEFINATLEY not be part of that future)
More like a quote in a book I read recently (Fawcett's Cambodia: A Book for People Who Find Television Too Slow [barnesandnoble.com]... to quote (loosely) He went on for a few pages about how "all through time 'would-be' oppressors/tyrants/dictators/kings/priests/etc have tried to enslave the 'average' person. And every time he learns that a slave's output (production) is lower - that the level of oppression is inversely proportional to his output. 'Slaves' will always find a way to do little work - while just doing enough to keep themselves from being killed (you cant kill all your slaves for poor performance)" He then later went on to say "God help us if someone finds a way to prove history untrue - meaning a way to make enslaved people want to work harder". When he said that I literally shuddered - I thought " Oh Crap - I think they have.".
When I look around at what all our discoveries, technology and culture has 'culminated' to - and what our 'direction' and goals (which we really have none) it was like being kicked in the chest - I spent 3 days relating this too friends and family (who mostly think Im a lunatic ("Your too serious, relax, take it easy" is commonly their reply))
Think about the way we relate to one another (through popular media), the consumerism, the blindly shallow culture (there is virtually nothing outside of 'pop' culture), and the way that we encourage and reward this behavior. That anything outside of entertaining ourselves and indulging ourselves has been forgotten. Im not suggesting we all have to live like martyrs and such, but it looks like we've become too complacent to adjust our culture to respond to anything of any real value...
Am I really supposed to give a fucking shit about Tommy Hilfiger, Monica Lewinsky, Jim Carrey's love life, or what Leonardo Decaprio eats for breakfast?
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:1)
And you don't suspect the MS paperclip is meant to entertain? I feel that to an extent, he is right. For all those that can afford it, which is what the market targets, entertainment is the driving force. Entertainment is what sells. I don't think the paper clip is a selling point, but I actually think its kinda cute and quite useful when you have zero clue what yer doing.
Mozilla??? (Score:1)
A few corrections and some facts (Score:3)
Could this be done independently? (Score:2)
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:1)
As such, the utilitarian purposes aren't going away at all. And while entertainment focused items may be added to a product, I don't think they come anywhere near representing a "new paradigm" for computing. It's obvious that entertaiment sells more stuff, but you can't play tribes without being able to code on your machine to pay those bills. This is the way it's been for a very long time, and it will continue to be so. Computing is too broad to be labeled as mainly for entertainment when it's also used for so many other things. This plurality isn't changing anytime soon, and this device doesn't represent any big new shifts in thinking.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Re:Obvious Parallel (Score:1)
Uhh, no. And yes, I know you were joking.
It is an interesting parallel for sure, and I think it will have played at least a subconscious role for the Nokia developers, but there is a common cause for this: the Finnish government has been pursuing an active policy to promote the tech industry to make Finland less dependent on its main economic driving forces: forestry and tourism. The main result is that Finland is now one of the countries with the highest densities of mobile phones, and one country where this technology is being moved to new and interesting uses, such as safe electronic payment schemes. This is also the reason why Nokia, a once classic industrial conglomerate switched to communications technology somewhere in the early nineties
On another note: Nokia is one of those companies that balances on the fine line between true innovation and smart marketing. I have used their Communicator phone/PDA as my primary mail client for some time, and despite it's rateher unstable OS it is a joy to use. I have nothing but the highest regard for Nokia's technical accomplishments, and will definitely look into buying one of these Media Terminals as a terminal for my flatmate, who currently has to share my computer with me for the occasional letter and web browsing.
Mart
I'll check back Thursday evening... (Score:2)
www.nokia.com will return by Thursday evening, January 18 2001. (GMT)
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TV and Computers finally start to merge. (Score:1)
Buzzwords (Score:2)
The new Media Terminal platform is technologically based on open standards and components such as HTML, JavaScript, DVB, MHP, Linux, Mozilla, and X86 PC architecture.
Sounds to me like a rousing game of "how many buzzwords can we fit into a press paragraph"? But seriously, just because a product is based on Linux doesn't necessarily mean the final product will only run Linux.
I mean, hell, I'm sure some elements of Windows 2000 (process ID's, killing things in the task manager, etc.) were borrowed from traditional UNIX examples and even modern-day Linux and FreeBSD code (you don't think Microsoft has taken a gander at most of the free code by now? Yeah right). But Windows 2000, even if it's "based" in a theoretical UNIX world, is still Windows reality (one of the best Windows I've seen Microsoft produce, but a Windows reality just the same).
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
its makes good sense. (Score:2)
Re:"resembles a George Foreman Grill," (Score:2)
In the meantime, though, my question is: Who's going to be the first person to make a hoot kit available? (drivers and software to make the machine fully functional)
(In case you're wondering, I made up the name 'hoot kit'. The etymology should be obvious)
`ø,,ø!
Contractual agreements? (Score:3)
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
Dumb (Score:1)
Now what's a hacker to do??? (Score:5)
I wonder which is the bigger challange... installing linux on a tv box designed to run windoze, or to install windoze on a tv box designed to run linux?
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:1)
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Re:"Underlining its commitment to open source..." (Score:1)
The point isn't really how good the game is, it's the spirit of the thing, and if they're releasing it then that's fantastic. Maybe there'll be some nice little games that'll come out at some point though.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:1)
I consider entertainment as more of a catalyst than an element in the pursuit of higher needs.
Yes, I mean, I can see that writers, artists, songwriters, etc. want to put some depth, meaning, substance to their work. A message, as well as just the pleasure of dancing around the room. And the greater the artist, the higher the message (one way of 'measuring' art).
Most of Hollywood isn't Shakespear, but even something like The Matrix contained some esoteric, philosophical questions within the action adventure. Or a personal favourite, Babylon 5 (some people will think it lame), with its endless "Who are you?" and "What do you want?". It is said that Sri Ramana Maharshi, reputedly one of the greatest spiritual teachers, gained ultimate non-dual enlightenment by asking deeply "Who am I?"
So through our art (and hence entertainment), things trickle through. And if nothing else, then what the hell, at least I'll have spent a few hours with the girlfriend/wife watching t.v. -- as you say.
BTW, as you are interested in Maslow and are open to ideas of hierarchies, have you heard of Spiral Dynamics? IANAP (I Am Not A Psychologist), but I gather it's a very useful system for understanding culture and people -- it was used to help the different factions in South Africa, who held very different values, come together to talk, and move forward.
The like the name "Trojan Horse" hmmmmm... (Score:1)
This could provide rather humorous results when we find out how secure this box really is. Do we really need a couple thousand of these being 0wn3d by 3l33t h4x04 d00dz to be used for DDoS attacks?
Evening News: This evening we are recieving reports that the internet is being brought to it's knee's by a set top box called "Trojan Horse", this is all due in part to it's OS Linux. Microsoft has announced that they have a patch available for customers who own a "Trojan Horse" that will replace Linux with Windows Trojan version. This is a minor upgrade from Windows 98.
Re:Nokia has a history... ...a flattering one (Score:1)
are freebsd based (2.2.5 or thereabouts, based).
Webramp, which nokia recently bought, is however
linux based (and also runs checkpoint).
Old News! (just bragging) (Score:1)
Note the date. It seems like Nokia just waited for 2.4 to condense.
Re:Would you maybe know... (Score:2)
I don't think it runs a Unix. Some people have been working on reverse engenering it's filesystem though. I don't think they have gotten as far as the DISHPlayer 7000 folks though.
MAYBE (Score:1)
Re:"resembles a George Foreman Grill," (Score:1)
Re:Could this be done independently? (Score:2)
I don't want a TiVo-like box that does all that. Mostly I want to keep the game playing in a diffrent unit (possably loading games off the home entertainment system...). Game systems tend to push down to the bare metal, and I don't want to have that on my "mission critical" TV recorder :-) Nor do I want to force the game makers to not go to bare metal if they want too...
However it would be nice if it did the jukebox stuff. And I would love to be able to hook together more then one of these and have them record from diffrent streams, and also any one should be able to read off of the others. And if some get diffrnet channel line ups *say two on satalite, one on cable, one on an antenna), well I should see the union of all of them when I go to select stuff to record. Oh, and you need to be able to tell it how the reception is ("don't record ABC from there unless you really really have too, it ghosts").
Camcorder input would be nice. Non-linear video editing would be nice. Archiving (onto a DAT or DLT jukebox?) would rock. Being able to accept suggestions from friends could be cool. There are a ton of things that I think would fit into the perview of "networked super video recorder and playback monster".
Not that I know of, but Hauppage just announced a new one. And they are advetising this kind of feature, so I expect they would publish docs...maybe.
Re:If it's Nokia, is that good? (Score:1)
"resembles a George Foreman Grill," (Score:2)
Theoretically, even though it runs Linux, Nokia's hardware license/service contract could be restrictive. GNU Experts: How does the GPL effect hardware and service restrictions?
Re:The Implications (Score:1)
This could be good. As long as Nokia releases those drivers.
> 2. People will start to trust Linux. I think that is one of the main things holding Linux back.
If it's known that Linux runs this thing, then yes.
> 3. More people in Linux users groups.
I doubt this will come true. Most of the users of this device won't know or care that Linux is running it. The hacker community is a small percentage of the people that would use this. How many people has the TiVo brought to user groups?
> 4. They may use this to push HDTV,
Not sure what the connection is here?
> 5. Finally we will be able to trade our favorite sitcom episodes.
This would defiantly turn into a negative. The networks would make sure of that. This is one of the stumbling blocks for DTV.
> 6. Create jobs for Linux Gurus.
See answer to 3 above.
sigh... (Score:1)
What a hoot!
`ø,,ø!
Re:Could this be done independently? (Score:3)
There are basically three hard things the TiVo (and I hope Nokia's box) does:
If you did this as a home project you can ditch the drool-proof interface. You can ditch the "very little RAM", and you can apply a lot more CPU, or maybe you can find a MPEG codec chip with actual docs. It is still a lot of work. Oh, and for a homebrew version you will need a source of TV Guide info.
It is a lot of work. Doable, but still a lot of work.
As far as hardware in the TiVo, it has a tiny bit of RAM (16M? 8M?), a MPEG codec, and a fairly slow PowerPC, like 50Mhz (the MPEG codec does most of the lifting), and fast, but not "AV" IDE drives. They sell for $399 new. If they had an ethernet it would be a no-brainer to get one of them and hack it (you can get to the Bash prompt easy, all you need is a cable, you don't even need to open the case!). A 30G disk is probably a good size.
You won't save money doing it yourself. You may end up with a better toy (at least better for your needs). Hell you may end up with a viable product. You may have fun. You will not save time. Or you could end up with another pile of hardware you arn't using, and another project abandonded before completion. I bought the TiVo, but I have a few other things I'm working on just now...
Ask Yourself a question. (Score:4)
Ask yourself a question. What is the dominant mode at the beginning of the 21'st century? I would say it is entertainment. Entertainment is the lynchpin of all forms of Human interaction and media these days, from business meetings using projectors and whizz bang graphics to our schools, where children are taught in an entertaining fashion as teachers realise their young minds are used to the compleity and speed of television. Entertainment is what our century will be all about, whether it be in business, education, or government. People in earlier centuries may have strove to be free, or to be educated, or to be saved, but in ours we merely want to be entertained. They were scared of being damned or killed. We are scared of being bored.
Now, the point about this with regard to these new Hacker friendly appliances is that we can see this trend in action. Everything must be entertaining. It is no longer good enough to have a PDP10, with wires sticking out everywhere designed specially for the real hacker. The 21st century hacker must also be entertained.
This is part of a wider trend. It is no longer good enough for a computer OS and GUI to be easy to use - that is 90's and passe. It must be intrinsically entertaining, like Enlightenment is, a little. These new appliances are the first wave of the new paradigm of 21st century computing. We had better get used to it.
Re:Nokia made a mistake... (Score:1)
It is vapor, but they've promised it for the nordic market some time during the spring, so we'll know in not too long how vapor it is.
Giving back to the community? (Score:2)
So are these custom drivers or what? And if so, how about giving a bit back to the community that allowed Nokia to sell the device for $400 instead of $495 (cost of hardware vs. hardware + windows license)?
Re:Could this be done independently? (Score:1)
I understand the real-world constraints of "doing it myself" and most likely won't
It's just that I am not sure TiVo does PAL and I haven't seen them in shops in Australia.
Would be fun to do though.
Cheers,
Ashley.
Video on Demand and Hard Disk Recording (Score:2)
Ok, with a 20Gb hard disk the one question I couldn't see the answer to was what sort of video codecs does it support, are they proprietory and where's the DVD (for more buzzwords). The one area linux could use corporate support in is in Video systems (to make this work it REALLY should play whatever video files people will be grabbing from their provider or online). How can this work in the current legal quagmire or is this finally a company from outside the US saying F*ck your stupid US IP laws.... what you going do?
And as no-one else has said it yet......Hmmmmmm a Beowolf cluster of these
Re:Nokia made a mistake... (Score:1)
Why? Roughly one day before this came out on slashdot, linuxtoday has a link to a commentary on this "media box" at http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-0
For US$400 per, I'd say it will make a difference when I use it for space-saving (and cool looking reasons) and hence money-saving reasons when I use it for my customers' co-location needs. Imagine stacking a few of these within a half-rack contract space, for the price of a half-rack.
regards,
Rostov
Re:Hardly a fair bit for Linux... (Score:3)
It fits my prediction that boxes with Linux pre-installed will get non-geeks past the 'linux is hard to use' FUD. Things like set-top boxes may actually turn out to be the Linux "killer app" that people have been looking for. Between the Nokia box and hoot kits, we've got it made for introducing users to the power and freedom of Linux.
`ø,,ø!
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
How long.... (Score:2)
it's STB market they want (Score:1)
they then looked for buyers what do they want ?
your oracle streaming server
your SGI media server
down to that little box in the hotel / liveing room
they then want to add web browseing and being able to send your home movies
now which OS can do this ?
Wind nokia's useal partner turned their nose up and said buy a stack from others you dont need an OS and then some ENGINEERS had their say I'll wager + linux has become a buzz word so managment must have taken notice
nice to see hope it gets a fair few CONTRACTS and makes nokia oodles of money
regards
john jones
Re:Thank you, Nokia (Score:1)
At least not until it's too late. :-)
If this thing combines the best features of VCRs and computers, doesn't require any kind of monthly subscription fee, and keeps getting better and more versatile all the time for free because of stuff Linux hackers create for it, then the only thing keeping it from being nearly perfect will be the proprietary case and form factor (can't stack anything on top of it).
Re:Giving back to the community? (Score:2)
Re:If it's Nokia, is that good? (Score:2)
Re:Actually, that's the base machine (Score:1)
Yeah, but the spec says 32 to 64 Meg, so obviously it's hardwired for 32 Meg chips.
Re:Buzzwords (Score:1)
Okay, okay... X00 it is then!
- Steeltoe
Re:The Implications (Score:1)
Do you really think so? I don't imagine people will even KNOW this thing is running Linux--so what's it to them? Just another box that does cool things. Depending on the interface, maybe it will look different that Windows, but heck, it's not a regular computer (to them). From the looks of the article, this isn't a box blazing the words "revolutionary operating system that blows Windows away that you probably haven't used before inside!" It's just a cheap way to play MP3s, get online, etc. Except for guys like us, who already are familiar with, understand the benefits of, and utilize Linux regularly, I don't think people will know any better.
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
your post is an exact quote from one of his newer books, Timeline
interesting as it is...a little credit is due
Re:It's true (Score:1)
Re:Firewire (Score:1)
Thanks anyway... (Score:1)
Re:Could this be done independently? (Score:2)
Re:"Underlining its commitment to open source..." (Score:1)
Re:Specs from the PDF (Score:1)
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
Re:Web appliances... (Score:1)
Forget about world hunger, mid-eastern holy wars and homeless people, we need mass acceptence of the NET!
/rudeness off
Seriously, there are a huge number of people that just aren't interested in the Internet. Now, I'm not one of those people that thinks we should eliminate the desire to gain Internet access if it exists, but I don't really think that people are denying themselves the greatest thing humanity has ever created if they aren't on the Internet as often as possible. Some people just don't care one way or another. And if they aren't actively seeking Internet access, then I promise you that they are not going to be impressed when someone comes out with a "cheap" way to get online. Trust me, if they won't purchase the pay 500 get 400 back when you sign up for MSN computers at Office Max and Best Buy (and everywhere else) then they probably aren't going to plunk down the $400 that it would cost for this toy.
Now, I do expect Internet access to continually become more common place as time goes on. But I don't think there is any pressing need to get every person in the world attached to the Internet in some fashion. And apparently there are a large number of people that agree. Older people shrug over it, and many younger people that aren't into computers couldn't care less.
As to the panic that occassionally strikes when it is seen that Internet growth is slowing, it's not worth the panic it causes. The Internet isn't going to disappear because of a period of slow growth. Slow growth is still growth. Our economy is in a correctionary period right now. With the past few years of an ever increasing vitality, there was the necissity to either slow things a bit or brace for the inevitable crash. The growth of Internet access is in the same type of period right now. It isn't going to die if the people that are left without Internet access just shrug it off. Like it or not, it's here to stay. It's become too much of a money maker to just disappear. Some of the methods of making money over the Internet need to change, evolve and adapt because there aren't as many clueless people jumping on every day willing to fork over large sums of cash easily, but so what? The changes will come, the Internet will grow more slowly (and probably become a stronger entity for the slow down) and the world will go on.
The problem that you describe is only a problem for companies that see people out their not forking over $20-$40 a month for Internet access and are constantly asking why. The answer is simple. Some of those people just don't care. Some of those people have better things to do with their time than post to slashdot and read online trash mags. And some of them are comletely and totally sick of hearing all the hype about the Internet and are not going to get more interested with people trying to shove it down their throat.
The Internet is a great tool. Just as the computers that were originally all that was used to access it. But that's all it is. It is not the cure for all evils in the world. And until people start getting realistic about its benefits and even its deficiencies (heaven forbid!) we are not going to see it become as ubiquitous as the telephone.
The masses couldn't care less if net access is cheap. They already have cheap telephone service, and cheap television service and cheap access to radio. Adding one more corporate advertising machine into the mix isn't really all that exciting a prospect for some households. And without a real understanding of what the Internet is and how it can be used to gather information, that's all that it is to those people.
I don't see the lack of mass acceptance as a huge deal. It's only natural. Acceptance will come with time. And through time the Internet itself will get better, faster, and hopefully more full of useful information. It just seems silly to say that it is a problem that the entire world population hasn't embraced the Internet. Again I say, SO WHAT!? It's just a tool. Do people get upset when tribes in Africa don't have the latest set of Sears Craftsman tools?....
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:3)
And as for this being "the new paradigm of 21st century computing" I'd disagree there too. Computers have always provided some form of entertainment, from Space Invaders to Quake (and that's just the games) but they also provide other things that aren't just for fun like word processing or database access. People will still use computers for things like firewalls and print servers and DNA analysis because they're effective tools. These devices are not the new paradigm of computing simply because they're new and focused on fun. That's no different than a PC that people can program games and OS kernels on. The "new paradigm" of computing will be a plurality of functions, just like the "old paradigm."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Re:"Underlining its commitment to open source..." (Score:2)
Re:Thank you, Nokia (Score:2)
What makes Linux cool (popularly usable) to the masses? A Web appliance whose software is mostly open source and free
How many users that make up "the masses" will actually ponder the software license as part of their purchase decision? Hackers will, sure, but the masses aren't hackers.
whose programmers are somewhat accessible/responsible to user feedback
Which programmers? Nokia or the Linux/Mozilla people?
and the ability to upgrade and update without repeatedly paying fees and buying licenses
I don't know any set top box maker that charges for software updates. You generally have to pay for the ISP, or in the case of Tivo, the programming service. But software updates are free last time I checked.
Overall, I think this is probably step in the right direction. But I think the concept needs some more focus. Right now, it sounds as if Nokia is positioning it as an "everything" box, which makes it very hard to market (except on the Home Shopping Network). You need to define boundaries of the product. You need to define who you think will buy it. And it's not exactly cheap. $400 for a 366 Celeron?
Maybe I'll be a bit less skeptical if they had some screenshots of the UI.
- Scott
--
Scott Stevenson
WildTofu [wildtofu.com]
Re:Thank you, Nokia (Score:1)
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Re:its makes good sense. (Score:1)
Re:"Underlining its commitment to open source..." (Score:1)
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
What is it made of... (Score:1)
Now just what the hack is "MACROMEDIA"? Is it some sort of file format, transport protocol or something with holes in it... Perhaps the user interface is written with Director?
And don't forget, just because it runs Linux doesn't mean it is automatically cheap or hackable. Nokia can charge you whatever they want and "hack prove" it.
====
Re:Web appliances... (Score:2)
No one needed the car, the telephone, or the aeroplane either. That never stopped everyone gaining access to these facilities, and it never stopped world hunger everywhere.
If I had said that everyone needs net access then your comments might have had some weight, but I was commenting on the strategies of the companies in this "lovely" capitalist planet of ours ability to generate money.
It really does look silly to flame someone for something they never even said, you know.
As to your comments on rebated PCs, we in the UK have happily embraced cheap mobile phones based on subscribing for a year at a time to get handsets for next to nothing, so who is to say the same model will not work with net access, considering the company marketing it is one of the biggest, most well known brands in Europe whos phones we all use!
Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
Yes, generally it can be inspiring to see what the body is capable of, but once inspired, I have to get out of my chair and go swimming or join the gym. And it's just soooo much easier to say, "later", and change channel.
Hmm. My post was somewhat incomplete, I fear. I consider entertainment as more of a catalyst than an element in the pursuit of higher needs. I agree that it is up to the individual to actually capitalize on the opportunity, and agree further that many never do; however, I do firmly believe that entertainment can and does serve as a vehicle for encouraging individuals to better themselves.
A lot of it boils down to any given individual, and whether or not they have the will to act on their impulses. In the case of somebody, for example, who watches and enjoys baseball on TV and not once actually goes out and plays it in life, I pose the following question: would that person have been better off or worse off had they never watched baseball on TV? Would the individual in question have gone out and done some other activity that would have lead to further pursuit of the higher needs, or would they have simply squandered that time in some other fashion? I believe the latter to be true more often than not; we may very well have diverging opionions on this point, but consider the outcome of this opinion for the moment. If the individual in question simply fills that time with an activity that they find less pleasurable (with no further progress towards fulfilling the higher needs,) is that individual not worse off for not having enjoyed that time? What value is there to life besides personal pleasure, if the higher needs are not pursued?
But not all culture is entertainment. I tried reading a couple of philosophy books, and that was not a pleasant experience. I doubt that the hard discipline required for achievement in sport is considered 'fun'.
I agree that not all culture is fun, but of all cultural activities you have taken place in, which would you consider contributed most to your pursuit of the higher needs: those activities you found entertaining, or those you found more tedious than pleasurable? People tend to gain more from things they enjoy doing, and if you enjoy doing something, is it not entertainment?
While it is perfectly possible to not enjoy the hard dicipline required for achievement in sport, I would also argue that those who attain the greatest success and fulfillment in sport have generally taken great pleasure in it's pursuit, even in the tedium of daily training. Entertainment can come in micro-doses, in the form of a runners' high during a 12 mile training run, performing an exceptional play in the middle of a four-hour training session, and the like. An athlete who does not take great pleasure in what they do is unlikely to truly fulfill their higher needs, even if they do attain a professional level of ability.
Self actualisation is a very hard and difficult task. Very few people are willing to do it.
Agreed, resoundingly! Herein lies the gist of my feelings towards entertainment, though: for the individual who, for whatever reason, does not or cannot pursue self-actualisation, what is there? Some turn to spirituality, which leads to a kind of external actualization of the self. Others simply exist, in a genuinely day-to-day sense. For those that simply exist (as well as those that pursue spirituality, but most importantly for those that do not,) entertainment almost becomes a need in and of itself.
For a person who has fulfilled as much of the hierarchy of needs as they are able or willing to, what reason is there to pursue living if not for the sake of enjoyment? (Here is where I see a great deal of the value of computer gaming--I admit that it does less than other forms of entertainment to increase one's fulfillment of higher needs, but it provides an excellent means of diversion for those unable, unwilling or unprepared to do so. If you're not going to pursue fulfillment, why not pursue mindless pleasure?)
"Entertainment" can give relief from our deficiencies, in the same way that going to sleep gives relief from the day, but I wouldn't give entertainment any more value than just a feel-good drug.
Entertainment can act as a catalyst for those willing to delve farther into the higher needs; for everybody else, it acts as a feel-good drug. A society without it's feel-good drug, though, is a society at risk of serious trouble.
A few wildly gifted people are capable of amazing things. For everybody else, there's entertainment. Therein lies it's value.
information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.
Re:Answer (Score:3)
>
> If it's a robot girlfriend, then the answer is an unqualified "YES".
Robot girlfriend? Sure. Give us a minute to embed the mods.
But how about a web-enabled heavy petting waldo while you're waiting? You got it:
Cybersex Replaces Real Thing with Online Robots [yahoo.com]
--Blair
"Ohhh, Shania..."
Re:Giving back to the community? (Score:3)
Did I forget to mention I'm running Linux 2.4, which because of it's even minor # is by definition "production quality"? Also, did I remember to say that I've not had USB, or any other part of Linux, crash on me since the 2.0 series? Oh well, it's on the table now.
If you do not call the USB code in the current stable version of the kernel "production quality", then a.) you have not downloaded the latest kernel, and b.) your expectations are so ridiculously high that you really don't have any business running a computer anyways. Lack of drivers is one thing. Flaws in the actual basic USB code itself are an entire other issue, and here Windows has no edge over Linux as far as I can tell. I would advise you to revert back to the venerable IBM typewriter, circa 1981. Mine is still running and definitely hasn't crashed, ever, so I think after 20 years I can conclude it's bug free. For the rest of us, living with bugs in software is a necessary evil. Linux isn't bug free, but as far as USB support goes, it hasn't ever failed me yet. I'd even go so far as to say that it's "production quality".
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Re:Firewire and USB support (Score:2)
First off, you can't just buy USB or 1394 peripherals and expect them to work under Linux. I don't care what kind of crazed advocate you are; you will never get a Logitech USB webcam to work under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. There are other, better-supported USB webcams out there, but I'd rather have mine supported. Oh well. Linux is a long way from supporting even half of the USB peripherals on the market. Look at the source code. We've got USB mice and keyboards (easy), a series of Kodak digital cameras (cool), some Palm type stuff (bleh), and a very few specific chipsets, like the ones used in the Creative Webcam series (good webcams, but not what I own).
I'm not trying to put down the USB support in Linux. I'm just saying be more realistic. Less hype and advocacy, more truth in advertising.
Windows 98 sucks in many ways, but USB support is not one of them.
p.s., I know that Logitech (may their mouse balls fall off) are the problem, not Linux programmers, but that doesn't change the fact that Logitech USB webcams aren't supported under Linux. I have the highest regard for the Linux USB programmers and the lowest regard for Logitech...
Re:Giving back to the community? (Score:2)
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Hackers want the case (Score:2)
Hackers want the case. I'm not kidding.
Anyone can build a Linux box that does this stuff, but it'll be in a minitower case that looks like a personal computer. Hackers want tiny cases, unusual cases, and cases that look like stereo components. There aren't any for sale. None.
Some hackers can hack cases and work with sheet metal, I guess, but most can't because they are really just software hackers. Products like this (and the iOpener, etc) give 'em a way to get a better-looking computer without having to get their hands dirty.
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Re:Ask Yourself a question. (Score:2)
No, but that homeless guy is begging for money so he can buy a bottle of Ripple. That's entertainment -- or, actually, entertainment's cousin, "escapism".
I submit that most forms of entertainment are really escapism. Escapism from a domineering family, a troubled childhood, a boring job, a pointless suburban existance... the list is endless.
An example that's closer to your grandparents than you, but still enlightening: even in the midst of the Depression in America, people were going to the movies in droves. No accident, either, that this period of time is also considered the "Golden Age" of filmmaking. When people are standing in lines to get a hunk of bread, they're still able to come up with a nickel to go watch the picture show -- if only to forget the drab life which surrounds them.
Re:If it's Nokia, is that good? (Score:2)
I just think that such cheap devices are like cable/dsl modems or satellite decoders
They are cheap enough to be rented a way that will allow the tv company to make 10 times as much money as they paid to have it delivered to your doors.
And of course, the $400 they announced is not a public price and I guess it'll rather cost you 800$ to get one.
Better hack an old P133, no ?
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Re:its makes good sense. (Score:2)
And I am aware that what a distro is, and I doubt that they are going to roll their own. I mean that would mean they would have to come up with some sort of patching/upgrading system and that would be pretty stupid to re-write when it already exists.
Re:Nokia made a mistake... (Score:3)
Look at the newere custom features like downloadable ringtones and graphics. Again, purely fluff. But again, all the teen girls love hearing their phone play "Eninem - Stan" when their boyfriend calls along with a flashing picture of Calvin & Hobbes. Again, features that please consumers.
I really have a lot of respect for Nokia when it comes to taking interesting steps. Motorola opened the door to designer cell phones with their StarTAC series but Nokia perfected it with the 8890. The newer 99xx series that opens like a glasses case to reveal a screen and keyboard is also amazing.
Now, I have been wishing and praying for a company to make a cheap TV->PC bridge for years. ReplayTV almost did it, but disabled their firewire ports due to pressue from TV studios. Nokia I dare say has virtually no connection to any media company at all (at least not until they have 3G phones that can stream video?) so all they care about is selling units...which is precisely what a hardware manufacturer should be concerned with.
If I can buy a box that I can program to record shows and the deliver them to any computer station on my home network, I will buy them, and I will buy many of them. I could care less if it's Radio Shack, Papa John's or Nokia. A ethernet port would be the ultimate but it's not a far stretch from USB and the FireWire storage options would be greatly welcomed.
- JoeShmoe
Re:Web appliances... (Score:3)
There is a problem: how to give cheap net access to the masses so that it becomes as common and easy to use as the telephone.
Sun have been raving about this for years, and is behind both their push on Java and distributed processing: they figure if they provide the infrastructure, then that is where they can make their money.
In Europe at least, Nokia is the premier mobile phone brand (though I use a Motorola v50), and the average consumer:
a) Has heard of Nokia,
b) Has trust in the company, and
c) expects a Nokia device to be easy to use
So bully for Nokia! If they can get these devices into the marketplace then they can probably persuade Joe consumer to buy one.
Re:Ask Google (Score:2)
Other references :
Answer (Score:4)
Has the hacker-friendly "appliance" finally arrived?
If it's a robot girlfriend, then the answer is an unqualified "YES".
Isn't gonna be released till the end of the year (Score:2)
Thank you, Nokia (Score:3)
Linux isn't unpopular because it's supposedly hard to learn! It is not cool. (Cool is a marketing term that means "my hip friends haven't found a use for it yet.")
What makes Linux cool (popularly usable) to the masses? A Web appliance whose software is mostly open source and free, whose programmers are somewhat accessible/responsible to user feedback, and the ability to upgrade and update without repeatedly paying fees and buying licenses.
The appliance's low price may be the key to introducing people to the advantages of Linux.
It's true (Score:2)
It was silly for him to try, because there IS NO DRIVER For it.
That's because Logitech thinks that the bits that talk to the camera, perhaps more so than the camera itself, constitute their key to market share.
They WILL NOT release specs for the camera, so Linux folks cannot write a driver for it.
I wouldn't blame that on Linux.
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Hardly a fair bit for Linux... (Score:3)
Not exactly a glowing representation of Linux.... while the machine itself sounds wonderful, the article is a real piece of junk, treating it like a piece of trash "because it doesn't run windows". Funny that they mention TiVO as one of its "more superior" competitors and don't mention that it too runs Linux.
Ah, well... somebody once said that "bad coverage was better than none at all" so I guess it is a small plus but it would be nice to see a better informed article on the machine.
Specs from the PDF (Score:4)
Specs from the PDF
Software
Hardware
Memory
Network Interfaces
Audio/Video Ouput Interfaces
External Interfaces
Content Protection
Digital Video Recording (DVR)
Power Supply
Dimensions
Environmental Conditions
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Re:Not all that great. (Score:2)
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Re:Web appliances... (Score:2)
Hmmm.
"There seems to be all sorts of stuff on this World-Wide Web thing, but I can't afford a PC, what should I do?"
"I want to email my son but I don't want to learn to use one of those complicated computers. Isn't there an easier way?"
"Society is in danger of splitting into Information haves and have-nots, what can be done to lower the price of admission?"
"My e-retail site's sales have reached a plateau. If only there was a way for the pool of potential customers to grow"
"Damn, I've got to stay late at work and I'm going to miss Brookside. If only I could telnet my VCR from work and tell it to record it."
Need any more? I could do this all day.
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Not all that great. (Score:2)
Might make a nice e-mail station though. Just install Althea and you're good to go.
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For a stable GTK IMAP client check out http://althea.sourceforge.net
Nokia made a mistake... (Score:2)
Colin Winters
The Implications (Score:4)
2. People will start to trust Linux. I think that is one of the main things holding Linux back.
3. More people in Linux users groups.
4. They may use this to push HDTV,
5. Finally we will be able to trade our favorite sitcom episodes.
6. Create jobs for Linux Gurus.
Game Developers (Score:2)
As I posted earlier, for Linux to benefit more people need to use it. This box is yet another option for to find a useful, widely popular application for Linux.
In other words, a reason for someone who isn't necessarily a "geek" to get a Linux box.
I linked this PDF because one way to promote the widespread use of the thing is to make games for it.
Firewire (Score:3)
http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/
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Re:Specs from the PDF (Score:2)
I wonder if it is one of those Celerons with like 2 bits of Cache?
Nah: Intel stopped making those years ago. The first of the new breed with 128Kb cache was the 300A
All celerons since then have been as fast as their P2/3 equivalents (excepting 100MHz FSB).
Re:its makes good sense. (Score:2)
Unless you hack it, this thing is *not* going to have a bash prompt. You won't have your own directory in
Yeah, this'll go a bit further than TiVo in that it'll be able to install new software off the Net, and it'll have some derivative of Mozilla on board, but even that will feel more like browsing the web on (say) a Dreamcast, than it will feel like using a PC.
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Re:Nokia made a mistake... (Score:3)
It's very possible that hackers will be buying the system to play with it... its also likely that moam and pop kind of deals will buy it to help wrap up a couple of devices into one. Nobody in their right mind willl look to this as a real "gaming machine", the games are only mentioned as a side benifit.
Nokia has a history... ...a flattering one (Score:2)
My office mate (who is an example of how much brain damage chemotherapy causes since he's comfortable sharing an office with me) was quite startled the first time he lit up one of these boxes. He knew I was a Linux geek so he dragged me into it (he's a networking guru for switches and stuff; firewalls is a recent mission for him).
Nokia's stuff has been cute but I was expecting the delivery of our firewalls to include the covers (like the phones have) so we can doctor their looks...