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Attacks On US Continued Reports
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Sep 11, 2001 10:49 AM
from the ongoing-saga dept.
from the ongoing-saga dept.
I'm still having problems getting news from most normal sites, and we are just barely holding up.
Both world trade towers have collapsed after hijaacked planes crashed into them. New Yorkers are asked to give blood. Pentagon has collapsed after similiar crash. A pilot of another hijaacked plane crashed in a PA field rather then hitting another target in Pitt (unconfirmed). Military is at the highest alert. US Embassy in Oslo evacuated, all israeli embassies evacuated. 2 Flights to LAX lost radio contact. 3 other planes down. London evacuating. Camp David crash is false. Bin Laden threatened about 2 months ago. Many many many dead. Many other cities evacuating and shutting down.
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CNN Slowly Coming Back (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/worldtrade.crash/ index.html [cnn.com] [cnn.com]
Here it is from CNN, only a synopsis right now.
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings.
In the first attack, a plane smashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapsed. Sources told CNN that one of the planes was an American Airlines Boeing 767 that had been hijacked after take-off from Boston.
About an hour later, a plane crashed into the Pentagon in Washington, part of which later collapsed.
Sources say a second plane was heading toward the Pentagon; F-16 jets were in the air monitoring it.
The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated.
In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports.
All international flights were diverted to Canada.
Israel has evacuated all its missions around the world.
President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes "apparent terrorist attacks" and "a national tragedy."
In Chicago, the Sears Tower was evacuated; United Nations in New York evacuated.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta was evacuated.
The New York Port Authority said it had closed all bridges and tunnels into the city.
New York's Bellevue Hospital was designated command central for handling the catastrophe. Several hospitals have already reported receiving victims with burns and head injuries.
Large plane crashed 80 miles south of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, but it was unknown if this crash was connected to terrorist attacks.
U.S. stock markets were closed after the New York attacks.
Time to look at history. (Score:4, Insightful)
When we find the whos, and we will, anything this big leaves a trail, then the time of retribution will be at hand. Believe me, it would be an ignorant if not suicidal move to stand between US and revenge. Right or wrong as it may be, "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Notice how quick the Taliban responded, they know what they allowed to happened. They have a dim idea of what the consequences may be. I can only assume that the comparisons to Pearl Harbor, and the eventual fate of Japan translate into their native tongue. It would behoove those who consider themselves enemies of the West to reflect on what happened to the last nation to attack American soil. I, for one, will lose no sleep over any lives lost should we decide to show those who traffic in terror, what it is to fear. They can hijack planes, we can wipe their cities from the face of the earth.
But hey, we're a representative oligarchy, and in this instance, I'm more than happy to let the rich representatives, who've lost a lot, make a strong point by spilling blood in my name.
I remember when I was about 10 being on the observation deck of one of the WTC, and looking down at all the people. I remember how impossibly huge those buildings seem. Now, those are gone. Maybe a little kid not so different from me was experiencing that still familiar sense of awe. It seems unlikely that anyone in such a situation would have been able to escape (thankfully many others have, seemingly most). What was their sin? If they can be killed in the name of a "benevolent" diety, then my "corrupt" government has my blessing to proceed with any retribution that can be described as "indescribable."
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DFLP claim false (Score:2, Informative)
a meta slashdotting! (Score:3, Funny)
I think you're being slashdotted :)
over here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:over here (Score:4, Funny)
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American Airlines confirms 2 planes lost (Score:5, Informative)
AMERICAN CONFIRMS TWO AIRCRAFT LOST
FORT WORTH, Texas ? American Airlines confirmed today that it lost two aircraft in tragic incidents this morning. American said the flights were Flight 11, a Boeing 767 en route from Boston to Los Angeles with 81 passengers, nine flight attendants and two pilots; and Flight 77, a Boeing 757 operating from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles with 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots.
Because of the heightened security due to the nature of today?s events, American said it is working closely with U.S. government authorities and will not release more information at this time.
The government has shut down the entire air traffic system in the United States. American, TWA and American Eagle will not operate.
"We are horrified by these tragic events," said Donald J. Carty, chairman and CEO of American Airlines. "Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of all involved."
Media calls should be directed to the FBI. Customers who wish to receive information about relatives should call American?s response number at 1-800-245-0999.
Updated information about this morning's incident in New York will be available here as soon as it is verified. Check back frequently and refresh your browser often to make sure you have the most current information.
Anyone else worried about biological/viral? (Score:5, Interesting)
The possibilty of secondary attacks to that end are just frightening as hell.
No. (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, there are a few things that have occurred to me about these events:
1: The planes must have been flown by the terrorists into the buildings. I have a hard time believing that a pilot of an airliner would be at the helm and be a part of such an attack.
2: This is an attack which would have been very difficult for a small organization to pull off. A large support organization would have been necessary for the necessary piloting expertise and intellegence work. Although this could have been state-sponsored, there is no reason at this time to think that it was.
3: One cannot adequately protect against suicide terrorists. There are too many otherwise inocuous items which can be, under the right circumstances, lethal weapons. The only defense against suicide terrorists is attack the morale of their organizations.
The reason why I suspect that this attack originated in the Middle East is that they are the only region of the world which a) has suffered enough at the hands of Europe and America to create that sort of response and b) has the resources at their disposal for such an attack. (Yes, I have studied my Middle East history, and a should point out that Britain was probably more a part of the problem than the US, but the US has been the present main player in the region).
IMO, we will eventually have to adopt a different policy toward the OPEC nations which aims to foster their economic independence (and live with the higher oil prices) or come to terms with the fact that low oil prices will be bought with human lives. Terrorism is expensive both in lives of supporters and in material resources, and this attack indicates that we as a country (America) have not adequately targeted the morale and/or finances of the terrorist organizations.
Don't get me wrong. I think that terrorism should be fully prosecuted etc. and I think that people who use innocent victims as weapons against a larger enemy deserve no respect, I think that, for the sake of security, we need to create a comprehensive plan which aims not only at attacking the actual terrorists, but also reducing the support they have from economically powerful people by responding to some of the root economical realities which have fostered terrorism in many areas of the world (but especially the Middle East).
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latest (Score:4, Informative)
Re:latest (Score:5, Informative)
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The Pittsburgh Crash (Score:4, Informative)
what does this tell us (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what does this tell us (Score:4, Interesting)
It appears only Microsoft can handle the big things.
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AOL working great! (Score:2, Insightful)
United Airlines web site (Score:4, Insightful)
Unite's link. flight 93 is the Pa plane, flight 175 is missing.
Pentagon news (good) (Score:2, Interesting)
i am in times square (Score:2, Troll)
tell everyone: PRAY AND DONATE BLOOD PASS THIS ON
Donate Blood Now! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you cannot do that please just go and donate blood. It is desperately needed for the hundreds if not thousands injured today.
Re:Donate Blood Now! (Score:3, Informative)
Update: Military readiness (Score:3, Informative)
Obviously, I can't reveal my source for this, but its a close relative who is 'in the know'.
Military Alert (Score:2, Interesting)
Unconfirmed (Score:4, Informative)
I reported that in #slashdot. It is what I hard from my roommate who heard it from her ex-bf who is a coast guard pilot. I cannot vouch for it being true, it comes from no official news source (as of this writing). I've also heard that it may have been shot down.
Finkployd
my prayers are with the victims and their families.
Re:Unconfirmed (Score:3, Informative)
"London Evacuating" (Score:4, Interesting)
Canary Wharf and the London Stock Exchange have been evacuated, there are rumours of Heathrow (the nearest large airport) being shut down, and I'd be surprised if most of the City (the financial district, and original City of London) hasn't been evacuated, but the rest of us are still here.
(Of course, there's nothing nearby worth targetting, unless you really hate the theatre, or shops - Oxford Street is very close by, though...)
Coincidently, it's my birthday today; guess I won't be forgetting this one in a hurry.
Cheers,
Tim
blood drive (Score:5, Informative)
Opinions on response (Score:4, Interesting)
I believe retailation in the highest order is needed, but with religious zealots willing to carry out kamakazi attacks, I fear there will be two more for every one we kill.
How do we preserve / return to our way of life?
Racism (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmm... Think about the racial paranoia that is going to stem from this tragic event.
People, unfortunately, look for excuses to target any group, and blame their woes on them. Whether they be economic (as is typical), or, in this case, terrorist. The Jewish people have long been scapegoats for Europe's woes. Even recently, with the Pauline Hanson issue, here in au, in years past, where migrants were blamed for the countries environmental and economic problems.
Now. A group has already been selected, pretty much by default and with no actual basis in fact (yet). People of Middle Eastern background.
Unfortunately, there will be ramifications.
Re:Racism (Score:3, Funny)
People, remember that middle easterners were automatically blamed for the OK City federal building. This turned out to be one of our own.
RESERVE JUDGEMENT until the facts are in.
Re:Racism (Score:5, Interesting)
A group has already been selected, pretty much by default and with no actual basis in fact (yet). People of Middle Eastern background.
I was born in Chicago but am of Asian Indian descent.
I remember how Arabic people were hassled during the Iran hostage crisis. I was in 4th grade then. My dad explained how the US supported the Shah, and how when he was deposed, his Iranian supporters were also forced to leave. We were pretty poor and lived in a crappy apartment complex in south Chicago. Two such Iranian families moved in during the crisis, each with little girls a few years younger than I was. They were harassed mercilessly at school -- the students did not understand that they were "on our side", so to speak.
I was a college student travelling Europe with a white friend when the World Trade Center was bombed a decade or so ago. We were pretty grubby as we went through customs at JFK airport in New York City upon our return. I was "randomly" picked out of line and directed to a secure area for detailed searching of my luggage. I noticed the other folks in the area were all of Middle Eastern or Indian descent. They had been "randomly" selected as well. I explained to the customs official that there was no need to search me, that I was natural-born US citizen, and flashed my passport. To no avail. By the time they finished with me, I had missed my connecting flight.
I remember the hysteria in the first two days following the Oklahoma City bombing, the automatic susipicion that the terrorists were Arabs. But this died down quickly.
I too worry that Arabs, even US citizens of Arab descent, will suffer in the aftermath of this tragedy. I'm not a member of that group, and have only experienced what I've detailed above, which is no big deal. I think it's important that we treat these people in the US fairly. This seems obvious as I write it, but maybe it's not.
On the other hand, the scale of this tragedy might change things altogether. The number of people that died at Oklahoma City is comparable to the number that die when a large commerical airliner go down. We can comprehend such numbers. But 10,000 people or more may have died today. That's 20% of the number of soldiers we lost in the Vietnam War, if my memory is correct. The average US citizen may not respond to this terrorist action as they have to those in times past.
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Perspective (Score:3, Offtopic)
Just talked to someone who was on the 81st floor (Score:5, Informative)
If you are in NYC, get off the phone lines NOW, and give blood.
White House evacuated, but NOT destroyed (Score:3, Informative)
(Disclaimer: IANANS - I Am Not A News Service)
Rights (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the next time, people will question, "are having our rights trampled on really giving us security?"
Hijacking is different (Score:3, Interesting)
I do agree that US airport security has become very complacent recently. I've flown many, many times in the past year, often to the east coast, commonly flying with a pocket knife and leatherman multi-tool in my carry-on baggage, only once ever was it even noticed... before boarding a flight to Pittsburg.
Civil rights must be protected, but there is no right to board an aircraft. If you don't like the tight airport security, take a bus, a train, or drive yourself.
News from Maryland (Score:4, Informative)
* Maryland is tightening security all throught the state.
* AMTRAK Baltimore Penn Station is shut down.
* BWI Airport is accepting landings only, no flights out.
* All schools are closing, and Annapolis's (state capital) MD State Circle (state capital) is closed to all but emergency traffic.
* State Police are asking folks to limit phone use, both landline and cell.
Hysteria (Score:5, Informative)
Don't escalate this into war. There are no winners if it goes to war. We'll all just end up discovering that the terrosits do nukes. Some major American city will be vapourized in re-retaliation.
And get in touch with your State and Federal representatives. Protest any movement toward restricting your personal freedoms -- because they are going to lock you down. Protest any over-aggression -- because you will pay when the terrorists re-retaliate.
Time is NOT of the essence! Insist that things move carefully and cautiously. The world is in a delicate situation for the next few months. Treat it like a fragile, crystal bowl... and don't drop it.
GO TO WORK!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Its main purpose was to strike fear into the hearts of Americans, and to cause our economy to collapse. If everyone is afraid, then the economy WILL collapse.
The emergency workers are busy. The military is obviously busy. Go to work and conduct your business as well as possible. Unless you are working in one of the obviously dangerous areas.
They only beat us if we let our fear win.
I'm not a soldier. I'm not a fireman or paramedic. I'm not a police man. But I'm going to work today, and I'm testing software, and I'm making sure that my little cog in the big machine keeps turning.
Now, we're going to see what kind of a leader dubbya is. I have very grave doubts about his ability to deal with this situation rationally - think martial law - think more raids in Iraq - think more raids in Afghanistan. Think Arab Americans being rounded up (I'm sorry, but you know this will happen). There isn't much we can do about those things other than keep a cool head, and do your job as best as you can.
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Terrorists just going easy? (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, there's no one to go to war with. You can expect, however, that if it turns out a nation is harboring terrorists against justice, action will be taken.
Second of all, unless we are isolationists again, we're going to piss someone off somewhere. It is the unenviable consequence of world leadership. Not retaliating is not protection against further attacks. If we identify a perpetrator, there will be awful consequences.
Certainly, we must be cautious. We should take things slowly. Any response should be well-considered and deliberate...but not pacifistic.
Also, for those of you who live with an arabian population, or any other population likely to be targetted by irrational retaliation, don't let others take their anger out on other Americans, regardless of their ethnic origins. Arabian-Americans are Americans, too.
Re:Not "hysteria", "state of emergency" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: terrorist retaliation -- point is, they will retaliate, and will up the ante each time. Last time, it was a car bomb under the WTC. This time, the destruction of the WTC. Next, a nuke in the heart of NYC.
It's necessary to think long-term. The terrorist organizations will wait a decade if they need to. Time is immaterial.
Re:Hysteria (Score:5, Insightful)
The only way to prevent attacks like this is to be a nice country, and to make sure that anybody who ever does something like this is shortly in very serious pain. We haven't done much of the first, and should possibly rethink how we deal with the world. The second is absolutely necessary for our continued freedom.
As Teddy Roosevelt said "Walk softly and carry a big stick."
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World Trade Live Account (Score:5, Informative)
I'd estimate the death toll at betwen 20 and 50 thousand here. I believe approximately 40 thousand people work in the entire world trade complex and the attacks seem to be timed for just when everyone got work. I used to work in Tower 2, 15th Floor.
I'll try and get a webcam up, too.
HANGUP IF YOU'RE ON A DIALUP IN MARYLAND!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Taleban, Arafat condemn (Score:3, Informative)
I'm watching BBC News 24, and Arafat has also condemned this, saying he was deeply shocked.
San Francisco news. (Score:3, Informative)
* TransAmerica building closed.
* Public buildings closed.
* Schools closed.
* Police in a high state of alert.
* Bridges ARE open.
* Public Transit IS open.
* All airports are of course closed.
News from Globix in NYC (Score:5, Insightful)
Globix is located on Centre Street south of Canal Street. Businesses south of Canal have been asked to evacuate. The dust from the WTC collapse has forced buildings to shut down their air conditioning. Only a few large computer operations can operate without normal air conditioning, but major exchanges, like the AT&T telephone building and Globix, have backup cooling systems that should hopefully operate in these conditions.
Globix engineers are taking care of major service problems and trying to prevent potential major problems so they can leave as soon as possible.
Globix is hooked into the 3 largest backbones that pass through the region, and at least one must still be operating. Email messages originating from Globix are making their way out, but messages sent to Globix are not coming in.
A telephone call to (212-334-xxxx) from NJ (856-672-xxxx) got through, but no calls to the 718 area code are working. I just received a call from a 212 phone as well.
My friend at Globix was walking to a class at Sun Microsystems at the World Trade Center when the first plane hit. His view of the collision was obscured, and he was not injured. He commented:
> I ran down to the woolworth building and stood
> looking in shock at the North tower, the smoke
> billowing out of it and the thousands of papers
> fluttering down against the blue sky. Suddenly
> I saw something hurtling down the side of the
> building. It was a man, limbs, tie and suitcoat
> flailing. several more followed. I turned and
> slowly walked back towars the sunny, newly
> renovated park in front of city hall.
>
> I heard the second explosion hit, and people
> began screaming and running past me.
>
> As I sit here at my comfortable nest of a
> workspace, my skin crawls, and I feel sick to
> my stomach. I have read about events this bad
> or worse a hundred times in the novels my
> father derisively terms storybooks, but the
> reality is completely incomparable. Perhaps he
> had a point.
>
Another friend of mine was in the 70th floor of the second building to get hit, and he made it out alive. I don't yet have the details on that.
Transportation update (from a Brooklyn friend):
Subway lines are running off and on, and bridges and tunnels are closed to cars. The W line was still bringing people into Manhattan at 9:30, but that has ceased. The N/R is now running above 14th Street. Pedestrian traffic is allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan Bridge. People in suits have been streaming over these bridges into Brooklyn all morning.
Historical Note:
Today, September 11, is the 28th anniversary of the CIA-led coup that overthrew the democratically elected government headed by Allende in Chile. Why is this relevant? I feel an immense amount of anger towards the people who caused this, and I think the people who caused this are the murderers sitting in Washington D.C. who direct U.S. foreign policy. They recklessly inspire anti-U.S. sentiment in every other country in this world. We ruthlessly bombed civilian targets in Yugoslavia (including water purification sites); we starve the children of Iraq; we blockade Cuba for no good reason; we topple democratically elected socialist governments in order to install pro-U.S. dictatorships. My anger does not direct itself solely towards the government officials who have perpetrated these crimes. I am furious at the millions of Americans who voted for George W. Bush. They are responsible for putting into power a person who is walking all over international agreements about global warming and arms control. And anybody who sits by and pays taxes and watches our imperialistic military and State Department do its dirty work has to take some responsibility for these murders. WAKE UP AMERICA: THIS IS YOUR FAULT. No missile defense shield will protect us from the hate that is justifiably spawned worldwide by our pro-corporate foreign policy.
Experience of an anarchist:
When the mail carrier knocked on my door this morning, I was worried that I was about to be taken in by the FBI. If you know what I've been through, you would not think this was a paranoid reaction. There will be a witchhunt following these events, and the U.S. government will probably use it as an excuse to harass activists. Right now the joint anti-terrorism task forces around the country spend most of their money tracking and harassing the anti-corporate activists who have been targeting world financial summits. A good chunk is also spent on the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front, neither of which actually have any members; they are just slogans that autonomous cells apply to their acts of vandalism. Today's events show yet again that money spent on national security does not in fact serve national security, but rather serves the insidious ends of the people controlling this country. Expect there to be calls for more money to fund politically motivated witchhunts against the Left. Expect calls for outlawing consumer use of encryption.
Finally:
Eben Moglen, Columbia University Law Professor and general counsel of the FSF once said about the inevitable rise of encrypted communications:
I don't doubt that there will be downsides. You should accept the truth that harms will be caused, as harms are caused by free speech all the time. But don't let yourself be panicked about this. The world of the twenty-first century will be more free, and will continue to be, as the spooks often say, "a tough neighborhood." Indeed, some bombs will go off; there will be, in Stewart Baker's signature phrase, "some mangled, burnt bodies." You will notice that there are already. But fewer of them will be in Iraqi prisons; none of them will ever again be in a gulag or Lager maintained by a KGB or SS state with a tap on every telephone. And of that you should be very proud, because it is we who will have made it possible.
Re:The really eerie thing is... (Score:2)
Okay, this is a flame--so feel free to mod it as such. But I'm disappointed in the moderators that would rate the above comment as "funny" and not something "insightful" or "interesting". I can't think of one "funny" thing in relation to this disaster.
Re:What today really is (Score:3, Insightful)
Count on it.
Re:Signifigance of today? (Score:3, Insightful)
structural details from reasonably informed source (Score:5, Informative)
High-rise buildings are built to control the spread of fires for long enough to allow people to evacuate safely. There is no capability, however, for fighting a truly large fire on a high floor. In modern steel-frame buildings -- and I don't know if the WTC was built recently enough for this to apply -- the steel is coated with a fireproofing material, and the combination of the fireproofing and the sprinkler system is supposed to provide structural integrity for a period of three to five hours. That's supposed to be long enough to evacuate the building safely. After that even the fireproofing is insufficient to keep the steel from heating to a point where it effectively begins to melt, deforming to a point where the building can no longer hold up under its own weight.
In this case, we weren't even looking at a normal fire. The incident began with a massive, high-speed, intentional impact that sheared off multiple beams, exacerbated by a large explosion from fuel aboard the plane. The initial damage was severe. Furthermore, my brother speculates that the impact likely severed the water pipes that reach the upper floors, leaving water gushing from a single point or a relatively small number of points and rendering the sprinklers largely useless.
Buildings do survive aircraft impacts, incidentally: A plane flew into the Empire State Building in the Sixties, I think, and obviously it's still standing. Anyway, I don't think it's fair to characterize this as a fire causing a building collapse -- it's more like a very large bomb.
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