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Journal bethanie's Journal: Marriage, Monogamy, the Intraweb, & Me 151

Journal by bethanie
My position on marriage, monogamy, and [what constitutes] adultery has really changed in the recent past (like over the last year, if I had to give a specific timeframe).

When I was 23, I got hit on in a bar by a guy -- and let him kiss me -- who it turned out was married. He had wanted to go back to my hotel room with me and "cuddle." I wasn't interested in doing that with him even if he *hadn't* been married, but discovering that he was -- well, the whole deal was off. And I wasn't equipped at the time, young and inexperienced as I was, to tell him exactly where to get off (i.e., absolutely *no*where in my personal vicinity).

I did go home and write a long and heartfelt diatribe in my journal about the nature of fidelity and what constitutes being "unfaithful." Basically, I believed that a married person should not express any kind of interest in a person other than her own spouse. No hypothetical situations, no "oh, what I would do with you if I weren't married"... That was crossing the line. It was important to be faithful in your marriage, because, well, that's what you promised to do.

Marriage was sacred because *some*thing had to be. And if you weren't going to hold to it, then was there really *any*thing you would hold to?

Well, fast forward about 10 years. Ten monogamous, mostly married, years.

It was actually a JE of sillypixie's (I guess she deleted it, 'cause it's not there any more) that elicited yet another vociferous homily on the value of marriage and how not feeling "loved" or "respected" or "honored" really had nothing to do with it. You made a promise, you stick it, who cares what the circumstances. You just do NOT walk away.

But believe it or not, that really got me thinking. I guess it's just my nature to play devil's advocate, even when it's my own beliefs that I'm questioning.

What I realized, when I thought about it, was that I really wasn't feeling very loved in my own marriage. And that my "needs" were *far* from being met. That I was living a miserable, unhappy existence because I was expecting my husband to provide me with things that he was either unwilling or incapable of giving me.

And I realized that expecting one other person to fulfill all my needs in *any* particular arena was ridiculous. Think about it with me for a moment. Think about what we need from other people. We need interaction and conversation. Do we limit ourselves to getting that solely from our spouses? Physical affection... Ever get any hugs from your kids, from your parents, from friends? A friendly pat on the shoulder, a squeeze of the hand... All physical gestures that may not seem significant, but try living without them for a while. I don't know about you, but me, I get to feeling like I'm literally starving.

Now... how about sex? Aaaahhh... there's the rub. (ha ha ha)

Why is it that sex is the ONE domain that is STRICTLY allowed only within confines of marriage (or at least, when you're married, your spouse is the only one you're supposed to have sex with)?

I have thought long and hard on this one. When you strip away the ego issues (facing the fact that no single person is ever going to completely satisfy another one, no matter how much I'd like to think that I could...), it really boils down to economics. Marriage is an economic institution. And up until about a hundred years ago (or less), it was an issue of ownership. A man, for all intents and purposes, owned his wife. So there was that little wrinkle.

So if being married is a matter of economics, if patrimony is the legal issue ('cause who should pay the child support can be a pretty contentious issue) -- and if no kids are conceived from extramarital relations, then...

You see, I've lost my faith in marriage. I used to think that it was worth preserving for its own sake. That it had its own inherent value. But I've come to realize that it's an arrangement that's rife with the potential for abuse. We take each other for granted. We think that simply because we went through a ceremony and have all kinds of paperwork, that the other person should put up with whatever shit it is that we want to dish out. Because divorce would simply be too shameful.

Well, I'm not scared of divorce any more. Yes, it would be incredibly inconvenient and my cushy life would come to an end. I'd have to get my ass out in the world and get a job and provide for myself for a change.

And I'd be a single mother. That would suck. Because even though Hubby isn't around much of the time, when he is around, I really rely on his efforts with the kids and around the house. It'd be a lot harder without him.

I'm sure there are plenty of other aspects about getting divorced that I couldn't even conceive of at this point.

But it hasn't come to that yet -- not even close. I've just considered the potential consequences that might befall me for seeking opportunities to live a more... fulfilled existence, shall we say.

Because at this point, all bets are off. I'm not looking to break up any marriages. Exactly the opposite, actually -- and if it ever comes anywhere *close* to that, then the line is drawn, the case is closed, the interaction ends. (My current sig really *is* the height of irony, and I was just playing off of TL's "Hold my beer while I steal your girlfriend" sig, for those of you who didn't get the joke.) I don't mean to cause anyone else any strife. If and when I ever do that, I really am truly sorry -- you just never know what circumstances are like on the other end of the line; I can only anticipate that the people I'm interacting with are considering the consequences of their actions as carefully as I have tried to consider mine.

But I truly believe that getting some attention & having some interaction [of an adult nature or otherwise] from people other than my spouse is essential to my happiness and well-being. And I do NOT believe that it is adultery or cheating. It is simply fulfilling needs that I have that are not being met by my spouse, and it ranks right up there with casual conversation or socializing with friends. (For what it's worth, I've shared this information with my husband already, over the course of quite a few conversations we've had in the past few months. Whether or not it's soaked in isn't for me to say.)

Doesn't mean I'm looking for a new husband, doesn't mean I'm seeking out "relationships," or even looking to fuck somebody else -- it just means that I recognize that I enjoy interacting with other people. Sometimes that interaction involves conversing about topics of a sexual nature (well, DUH). Sometimes it might even involve sharing more intimate details of my sexuality (in a full range of multimedia formats even!!). They are mine to share, and no one else can claim ownership of them.

And if Hubby were to come to the same conclusion, that he needed to flirt with other women, to feel wanted or desired by them, hell -- even if he wanted to fuck them -- if it meant that he would be happier and feel more fulfilled, I would send him off and give him my blessing. I'd just ask that he let me know when he plans to be home (so I won't worry that he's off dead in wreckage on the side of the road somewhere) and that he not bring home any diseases.

So I just wanted to lay my cards on the table. This is who I am. This is what I believe. This is where I am at this particular juncture of my life. Is it pathetic to want attention this badly? Am I a whore for not caring if it comes from someone other than my husband?

I invite you to tell me what a bad person I am. Condemn me, eschew my company, deride me for how pitiful and sadly desperate my existence is that I gotta go to the innerweb to get my jollies. Make plenty of redneck trailer trash jokes. Oh, and fat chicks with Daddy issues ones, too! Lay it on me. Hit me with your best shot. Be nasty. Lord knows *I* can be -- but mostly just in a good way.
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Marriage, Monogamy, the Intraweb, & Me More

Marriage, Monogamy, the Intraweb, & Me

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  • I invite you to tell me what a bad person I am. Condemn me, eschew my company, deride me for how pitiful and sadly desperate my existence is that I gotta go to the innerweb to get my jollies. Make plenty of redneck trailer trash jokes. Oh, and fat chicks with Daddy issues ones, too!

    Actually, I just wanted to let you know that I'm free on Thursday...

    Lay it on me. Hit me with your best shot.

    Yup, that was sorta my plan! Winkwinknudgenudgesaynomore.
    You gonna be on IM after 9-10 (your time) tonight?
  • Have had very similar thoughts in my years of marriage, and I was lucky enough to find my soulmate (keep the puking noises down, please!)

    You read any Heinlein? He had a lot of intersting stuff to say on the subject.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I feel kinda the same way right now. I'm 2 months out of a 6 year relationship and I'm doing a little dating, pining after someone, and just generally having a good time. It's nice to be free of all that relationship crap right now. My friends have helped keep me sane through the breakup.

    Do what you gotta do to keep yourself happy. Marriage is not the end-all be-all of existence. There's much more to life. But granted, I'm a bit younger than you, so what do I know? :-)

  • Right (Score:2)

    by ryanr ( 30917 ) *
    That's what happens when marriage is nothing but a social construct for you, and has no religious significance.

    And one might even suspect you of throwing out ultimatums to get a reaction out of your husband.

    (I had to seriously debate posting this. I know Bethanie can handle it, but I'm sure I'll have to hear from everyone else about it. But hey, that's why I have this think, elephant-like e-hide for.)
    • Heh -- how quaint that you think Hubby actually reads my JEs.

      And if he reads this one, he's not going to see anything new -- nothing we haven't gone over in a number of intensive, in-depth conversations over the course of the past few months.

      If THIS is what it takes to get a "reaction" out of him, then I guess I should have done it months ago.

      Yes -- I can handle this, babe. No one's gotten nearly as mean as I'd expected... yet.

      ....Bethanie....
      • Heh -- how quaint that you think Hubby actually reads my JEs.

        I thought I saw him post here once, maybe it was someone else.

        And if he reads this one, he's not going to see anything new -- nothing we haven't gone over in a number of intensive, in-depth conversations over the course of the past few months.

        Which you said, and that's actually what I was referring to. I didn't necessarily think *this* was the threat, but that you had been making them.

        If THIS is what it takes to get a "reaction" out of him, then
        • Actually, believe it or not, it's really not so much about sex. Not anymore, anyway. Hubby's been stepping up to the plate in that department, and I give him credit.

          It's more about attention and appreciation and engagement... Being able to talk about things OTHER than just the house and the kids and what to have for supper. You know -- the age-old story. I don't pretend that any of this is anything brand new or original just for my marriage.

          But yes, seeing me as a woman and as a lover and not just his "
          • On second thought- here's some different advice. Find out if he's built up some vacation time at work. Talk to his boss behind his back, arrange for a few days off. In the middle of that few days off, talk to your in laws or whatever grandparent figures the kids have- and arrange for babysitting at your house. Find a nice bed and breakfast- one without a TV set in the room. Once you've got all this booked- when he comes home the day before- inform him that he isn't going to work the next day. Then, af
          • Actually, believe it or not, it's really not so much about sex. Not anymore, anyway. Hubby's been stepping up to the plate in that department, and I give him credit.

            Ok, that's good, I think. Maybe I just didn't see anything else in your original description, or maybe the sex part just lept out too much.

            And it's not that I've "threatened" to leave him -- I've just let him know that divorce is not outside the realm of possibility like I always thought it was.

            Now that could easily be my coloring of the situat
          • Could this simply be a 'stay at home mom without any adult conversation, especially when hubby's always at work?'
            I've had to deal with that with my wife. Being a stay at home mom is a lot of work, and no adult interaction. That can make for a very lonely time...
            And the fact that you live out in the boonies makes it even worse....
    • That's what happens when marriage is nothing but a social construct for you, and has no religious significance.

      Absolutely false. Sorry ryan. :) There are many other factors when what bethanie and hubby are going through occurs. My wife and I attach absolutely NO religious significance to marriage AND we've also been addressing some of the issues bethanie brings up here in a completely secular fashion.

      to us, marriage is a solemn commitment between two people. no god required. it's more important to us n
      • Absolutely false. Sorry ryan. :) There are many other factors when what bethanie and hubby are going through occurs. My wife and I attach absolutely NO religious significance to marriage AND we've also been addressing some of the issues bethanie brings up here in a completely secular fashion.

        Uh, isn't that exactly what Ryan implied? That those who don't understand or attach a religious significance (SACRAMENT, damnit, I'm a Catholic) would need to address such issues. Those of us who do have a Sacrament
      • It's a much more involved question that is worth getting into here. Plus, it would just be you and I throwing our opinions at each-other. But just to expand a little bit on what I think... no, one doesn't have any moral basis without God. You can agree with your wife on whatever you like, but if you answer to no being, if it makes no difference when you're dead, then what does it matter.

        Look at the rest of the comments, people wondering why you can't be married, and do x, y, and z. Why indeed.
        • i think you've just explained to me why people think they need god. thanks for that! no smarminess intended--I'm serious and didn't see it before. the way you said that made something click for me about religious peoples' viewpoints.

          If you think there is no moral basis without god, then you would naturally think you need god. Of course, that's not true, but I know I won't convince you of that! moral codes and ideals existed long before god came into the picture. altruism helps the human race as a who
          • You really didn't understand that some people need an objective, external set of moral codes? After all, that's what God is- an idea made up of an objective external set of moral codes.

            And, BTW, you're incorrect- God or more likely Gods came long before altruism. The concept of the god started with Animism- the idea of the spirit of the place, that certain places *demanded* certain behaviors (quite often closely linked with what we think of today as physical law- if you didn't do those actions, your cult
          • If you're still curious about my beliefs:

            -Yes, you can come up with arbitrary moral systems. And they're just arbitrary. You could just as well go with "might makes right" instead of "golden rule."
            -No, God was there first, he created the place, right? :)

            The marriage issue is a bit more complicated, actually. Thought perhaps a bit more apropos for Bethanie's JE today. I can sum it up as the state has no place in marriage at all. It shouldn't have been turned into a legal status. That happened long ago,
            • if you don't mind, i'd like to reply a bit more.... :)

              of course, you know that the golden rule was "snatched" from the Tao, which was written around 600 years before jesus said it, no? :D

              See the world as yourself.
              Have faith in the way things are.
              Love the world as yourself;
              then you can care for all things

              Chapter 13.

              whether there is or isn't a god has no effect on choice in moral systems. christian moral code has been behind horrible atrocities as much as secular lack of moral code. there is still (even a

          • It might be too late for this post to ever get read, but...

            Look up Humanism [wikipedia.org]. A system of ethics and morals without religion. And widely known, as well, not some fly-by-night theory.
            • Not too late at all, not for me.

              I really like that. I think I may be a Hedonistic Humanist. Can I qualify for tax exempt status now?

              :-D

              ....Bethanie....
        • no, one doesn't have any moral basis without God. You can agree with your wife on whatever you like, but if you answer to no being, if it makes no difference when you're dead, then what does it matter.

          Punishment or reward in the afterlife isn't the sole source of a moral foundation. Do Christians really need to be extorted into acting decently?

          For those of us who don't build our worldview on the foundation of religious faith, personal conduct and values is the cornerstone to our entire existence. Thus, mo
          • Do Christians really need to be extorted into acting decently?

            I certainly don't feel like I'm being extorted. If an employer pays you for your work, do you consider that extortion, too?

            For those of us who don't build our worldview on the foundation of religious faith, personal conduct and values is the cornerstone to our entire existence.

            So what's the reason you behave in a moral way, assuming you do? Because it's "right"? If so, what do you think I'm getting at when I say "right"?

            as opposed to Christian
            • I'm impresssed by your well thought out responses. I a Catholic, while I have my disagreements with the church I think it's going in the right way.

              Religion is like Family. Are the well adjusted people from strict authoritative religions that say do this or else? Not usually....
              I like Catholicism because there I feel there is room for disagreement. We still have the Father figure (Pope) who sets the rules, and I believe most of them are very good rules. Some rules are in reaction to an imprefect worl
          • my goodness, you said all of this way better than i had a hope of. since i dropped the shackles of religion, morality, personal conduct, and values have become, well, the cornerstone of my existence. they mean a whole lot more to me now.

            it bugs me too, but ryanr isn't like that--i just have a completely different worldview than him and that's ok. it started rubbing me the wrong way, but we sorted it (at least to my understanding). there's not much more you can say when someone believes in everlasting li
    • Thanks for posting what I was thinking- and you were even nice enough not to bring the P-word into it.
      • Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day wondering which P-word you mean...
        • I got a few I could think of.

          IM me and I'll whisper 'em to ya real nice, like.

          ;-D

          ....Bethanie....
        • Protestant- of course.....the division where marriage becomes non-sacramental is a bit lower than that (all of the more "liturgical" churches still have it) but by the time you get to Baptists and other assorted American sects, the number of sacraments get cut down severely- and Marriage was one of the first to go, right after Annointing of the Sick. If there's any reason why secular Americans today don't respect the concept of marriage and have such a large divorce rate, it can be traced back to the fact
          • Ah, interesting. I don't know as much about those divides as I might like, but it's mostly a curiosity for me. For the sake of probably everyone who doesn't remember, I'm LDS, commonly referred to as "Mormon". For us, it's basically: Christ's followers die off and take the priesthood with them. Catholic church makes up their own brand without guidance or authority for ~1800 years or so. Joseph Smith restores the Priesthood to the Earth, and the True Church carries on from there. So Protestant, Baptist
            • The only surprise to me is that anybody would follow a convicted criminal. But Joseph Smith wasn't the first of those in American sects of Christianity; it was an American tradition to misuse Christianity to gain in wealth and fame long before he was born. I see Mormonism about the same as I see Seventh Day Evangelicals- a growth out of the Snake Oil Salesmen and other assorted Revivalists of the 19th century. But then again, I've made a hobby out of my theory of religious evolutionism; and American Chri
              • The only surprise to me is that anybody would follow a convicted criminal.

                Did you mean Christ or Joseph Smith? :)
    • I had a really lengthy comment in my head, but my keyboard is broken and it would take to long to type. Just picture me rolling my eyes and fanning myself with a Bible.
  • Marriage is a partnership. What you're looking for is a quick fix, hubby doesn't satiate me in bed, so let's go looking elsewhere.

    Now, in a partnership, he needs to agree 'yeah that's cool, but let's plot out some rules.'

    Letting him know that some of your beliefs are changing is good, but is it going to be s sticking point? will it cause trouble? did you really plan ahead before writing this?

    I don't know much about the marriage situation, but the primary reason for fildelity isn't economics, it's all abou
    • Why is a marriage partnership any different from any other partnership? I can have multiple business partners without being considered unfaithful to any one. I can have multiple friends - even multiple best friends - not a person would argue that I'm a cad for doing so. Why should the "marriage partnership" be considered different?

      • At least for marriages for love, your friends and business partners aren't supposed to love you in the same way married folks are. Hugs can be caring, they can also be sexual.

        Bethanie said:
        Why is it that sex is the ONE domain that is STRICTLY allowed only within confines of marriage (or at least, when you're married, your spouse is the only one you're supposed to have sex with)?

        To tie the two together, I don't think couples married for love should have extra-marital loves and lusts unless the couple has di
      • Yeah, but when you favor one business partner over the others you might build up some friction, which might lead to them not delivering goods on time etc...

        It's important to have enough trust that your partnership can remain intact.

        and yeah, i know some woman, I'm over simplifying the problem, and my feelings towards bethanie means i didn't dull the edge of my feelings. but that's not exactly as the same as trying to make her look bad.

        I was looking for a problem i could turn my mind to what wasn't related
        • I was tired posting that, but anyways, i thought i should express more of how i feel.

          If I had more than one partner, I would really really want all my partners to feel comfortable with the knowledge that i was in bed with the other partners. I would want to ideally be open and honest that i was in bed with someone else. It's true it can be very boring to 'find the one only for you' and wake up 10 years later realizing, wow that's 10 years of not having enough time to screw around with all these other part
      • Actually, your wrong, there can be only one "best" mathmatically and grammatically.
        http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=best [princeton.edu]

        another oversimplification taken too far...
    • You're oversimplifying the problem[s] to make it sound frivolous.
  • Exclusive breeding rights. If you want to get your socks off without the possibility of breeding, if you are capable of setting that up, then you can contonue your marriage happily and still have your needs fulfilled.

    I just hope you find happiness.

    • Exclusive breeding rights.

      I have to agree that's basically it. When people had a greater chance of dying young, and life was harder, people didn't have as much opportunity to change over time ... and if they did, they didn't have as many people around them, or as good communications (they didn't know that everyone else felt the same way).

      Part of the problem is unrealistic expectations. When people stop learning, stop growing, they stop changing. Anyone who expects the person they're with (or themselve

      • i think another valuable reason to get married is to "officially" offer your commitment to each other--while that is not required (you can simply say it to each other), i think the actual step of marriage has value in that it is a legal declaration and, more emotionally, a moment in time to act on the feelings you have for each other to provide a foundation for your relationship. if you're able to keep the relationship healthy enough, when times are tough, you can fall back on those reasons you got married

        • think of a marriage license as any other license ... just because you have a drivers' license doesn't mean you're a good driver, or that you ever were one ... just that you were able to get a license. Drivers licenses get revoked for all sorts of reasons.

          Now apply this to marriage ... its an agreement for better or worse, etc., and as such it actually is an illegal contract, because in essence it amounts to mutual servitude, and last I heard, slavery is illegal. People should stick together because they

          • As for the first part of your reply--perhaps I'm a bit too romantic. i think i simply consider it a romantic and telling (regarding the depth of your love for a person) thing to do. of course, that won't win me any debates.... ;)

            The BIG problem with marriage - it comes with way too many unreasonable expectations. The expectation that everyone should have the same tastes at 60 that they do at 20, for example ...

            that is not a problem with marriage, it is a problem with people. society. i do not believe i
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • See subject.
  • Love, sex, romance, respect, companionship, intellectual stimulation, economic support... each of these can be found individually in a number of other interpersonal relationships, but marriage is supposed to provide it all in one, neat package. Clearly, you're not enjoying that happy situation. If you've tried getting some help through counseling or some other means, and it hasn't helped, then your options appear to be limited.

    A hypothetical marriage like you describe ("just don't catch any diseases") doesn
  • I'd suggest that the first thing to try would be to figure out a way for Hubby to be around more- not just for you, but for Kiddo and Squirt as well. Fathers are important. We have a tendency to forget that in our over materialistic society. It might take a career change for him, but it would be well worth it, don't you think?
  • ... and we'll agree to our own opinions. Not going to say mine is better than yours, just wanted to share my opinion.

    If you felt this way when you were about to get married, I'd tell you not to get married.
    When you said your marriage vows, did you promise to be faithful only to your husband and vice versa? Well, then, that includes sex and all that other good stuff. I don't think flirting is being unfaithful. Physically sharing desires (even if it is only a kiss) is going against a promise you made t
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Ultimately some people shoulder all the responsibility, get pissed at the lazy ones and the whole thing goes to shit.

        So with all your infinite wisdom what stops that from happening in any other system?

        don't hold your breath, I'll tell you. the only thing that stops that is the belief that hard working people get ahead, and lazy ones drift down to the bottom. I'll tell you a dirty little secret, people tell themselves that to make themselves feel better. although I can point out countless hard working peo
    • Well, actually, no -- I didn't make any vow to be faithful only to my husband. That wasn't part of the verbiage at all. So you can't catch me out there!!

      You ask what the point of marriage is, if it's not sexual monogamy -- well, it's financial. It's filing taxes and sharing accounts and various financial interests. It's running a household and raising kids. That's what I mean when I say it's an economic arrangement.

      It's not very romantic when it gets boiled down to that -- but then again, neither is my

      • You ask what the point of marriage is, if it's not sexual monogamy -- well, it's financial. It's filing taxes and sharing accounts and various financial interests. It's running a household and raising kids. That's what I mean when I say it's an economic arrangement.

        Many moons ago, I was a was a Philosophy major. I bring this up because what one discovers is that after Greeks, Philosophy essentially becomes a study of linquistics. When you claim that marriage is a "financial" or "economic" relationship,

      • "You ask what the point of marriage is, if it's not sexual monogamy -- well, it's financial. It's filing taxes and sharing accounts and various financial interests. It's running a household and raising kids. That's what I mean when I say it's an economic arrangement."

        A civil union, in other words?

        That's what it looks like to me: a legal arrangement for mutual benefit and protection of any children. It neither implies nor excludes any particular religious or sexual content. (I think this should be the entire
  • I'm pretty much where you were when you were 23. As anyone who knows my story knows, my wife isn't... but I still am. It's not a God thing, because I'm an atheist. It's a me thing. And it's a me thing despite not getting what I wanted out of my marriage for the past 10 years or so. At times I've wanted to feel the way you say you do now. Just be careful, and be honest to yourself. If your feelings have really changed, then go ahead and act on them in the way that makes you and your children happiest
  • just suggest that if you feel this way, your hubby needs to read this more than we do.
  • You don't need anyone here to tell you whether you are a good person or bad person. The best judge of that is yourself. No matter what you tell us or hubby or even yourself, you know whether you believe it and you know whether you consider yourself good or bad for believing (or acting on) it.

    I would only add one thing. You mentioned that you've discussed this and gotten some sort of agreement or acceptance from the person most directly affected - Hubby. However, don't forget consequences to others besid
    • You don't need anyone here to tell you whether you are a good person or bad person.

      Oh I think she does.

      You've been a bad girl bethanie, a very bad girl...

      I have a lot to say on this JE, some of it might even be useful, but I'll have to save it for later (ooh I'm such a tease).
  • Is it pathetic to want attention this badly? Am I a whore for not caring if it comes from someone other than my husband?

    Oh, no. You're not a whore. Whores want money. I think a much better appelation would be somewhere in the range of "slut" or "bitch." Maybe just "nitwit", since the negatively there is more of a negative and less hostile tone.

    I don't have a lot of faith in marriage, when it comes right down to it. What I do have is a determination that my life is best when it is centered around my wif
  • From one of your explanation about marriage:

    It's running a household and raising kids.

    I always considered those the responsibilities of marriage. The idea that getting married will suddenly make two people completely compatible and able to live their lives together without want or strife is completely absurd.

    The idea of marriage (IMHO) was to elevate this role to something a more important than the feelings of two people. Raising a family is a huge responsibility and a ton of work (quoth I from my now alm

  • You probably have no idea who I am, cause I never post here. But I've read your JEs for a long while.

    There's already 80+ comments so you may never see it, but maybe you will.

    I've always been fascinated with your entries, in your nuts-and-bolts ways of raising your kids, running your house, and still living (what seemed to me) a full life. Needless to say, this JE was actually a little upsetting. My perfect picture of you and your life was shattered! Partially because what I saw in you was a way I though
    • Of course I'm reading your comment, sweetheart. I read ALL the comments in my journals.

      And I'm quite familiar with that book -- I read it in the "for children" form a few years back. We've talked about it and applied it a bit -- it's just not a very comprehensive means of resolving rifts in a relationship.

      But if you ever read anything that ANYone reports about their own life and actually believe that it can ALL be so sunny and shiny and happy all the time, well, then you definitely need a rude awakening
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    • That's why I like you, Sam. Well, one of the reasons, anyway. There are lots. :-)

      In any case, you have insight and introspection, and you can look below the surface of things.

      It's true, my dad dying has been a BIG blow in my life lately -- and I've been trying REALLY hard not to just be dissatisfied with my husband because he's not my father. That kind of thing is on my radar screen, though. You can count on it.

      Funny enough, one of the last conversations I had with my dad was about my marital troubles

  • question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dubiousdave ( 618128 ) * <dubiousdave@gmail.com> on Tuesday June 13, 2006 @12:45PM (#15525047) Journal
    How much of this trouble has been there since the beginning and how much has grown up since the move to Outer Bumfuck? It's hard to have much to talk about, other than jobwork and housework, if you live in two separate worlds all the time. Would this situation be better if you had more chance to interact with adults you found interesting and if he spent less time away somewhere at work? I used to have a job that kept me almost completely isolated from my SO for two or more months at a time (on a ship in BFE), and there wasn't much for us to talk about in email because my life was mostly 90 hours of jobwork a week and hers was 40 hours of jobwork and X hours of taking care of our house. We had no common stimulus to get us talking. If you have nothing much to talk about, it seems like there wouldn't be much to get you in the mood. Gotta run now.
  • Do what is right for all involved, to hell with everybody else.

  • ...and you are a few journals forward. I want to put this here, cause it's important... but I don't want to debate it, agree or disagree... it's an observation repeated many times throughout my life. Nothing more.

    I've known many people, and been married twice myself. I've done a few unsavory things with a few savery people.

    What I have learned is that two people whom choose to trust eachother enough to get married, need to give each other the freedom to express what they need, and the trust to know

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