South Korea Plans National 100 Mbps Network 449
prostoalex writes "Korean Ministry of Information and Communication is planning to wire the entire country with high-speed 50-100 Mbps network. A total of $80.4 billion will be spent on the project that's expected to be completed in 2010."
Year 2010? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Year 2010? (Score:5, Interesting)
But what else will there be? (Score:2)
However, the flipside is that if nobody else is installing even 100Mbps for future considerations, won't they still be ahead of the game in 2010 unless some new technology emerges to use on the existing networks/infrastructure?
Re:But what else will there be? (Score:5, Insightful)
100Mbps is fast enough to stream not just full bitrate Mp3s, but decent quality video as well. So, it might not be the fastest forever, but it won't be obsolete for a long time.
Re:Year 2010? (Score:3, Insightful)
Even with 10 MBit you can download MP3s faster, than you can listen to them. 100 MBit gives you a few parallel DVD-quality feeds. I mean - end-users may want to d/l all the Internet in a snap, but of what value is it to them ?
Sure, if means to transfer something bigger, ex. teleporting over Internet (TOI) that need 10G per typical human are discovered, then yes, you'll need a bigger pipe.
Re:Year 2010? (Score:3, Insightful)
In the UK, NTL have spent millions cabling homes up and it's mostly copper and has a maximum of about 2mbps IIRC.
I imagine in the UK, we'll still have about 2mbps unless someone comes up with a wizzo way of improving the phone likes like they did with ADSL.
Re:Year 2010? (Score:2)
Re:Year 2010? (Score:2, Funny)
And when in 2010 a korean kid will packet you with a 1gb connection, we'll see who's laughing.
By the way, i'm not korean.
KEKEKEKEKEKKEKEKEKE KTHX.
Re:Year 2010? (Score:2, Interesting)
Ethernet over CAT5 is restricted to 100m of cable between repeaters, so something tells me that they're not using copper Ethernet for a wide-area network. It's most likely fiber. However - I don't know much about fiber, but presumably upgrades would be even easier then (as long as you have the right type of fiber).
Re:Year 2010? (Score:5, Funny)
it's a small country...
Re:Year 2010? (Score:5, Informative)
And if it weren't for NDA's, I could say more about how a certain large tech company (Samsung) is helping. I can at least point out that the new south Korean govt. has as it's IT Chief, the past and very successful Samsung President, Daeje Chin [com.com].
The country also is working to have full nationwide wireless network coverage by the end of next year. Cell phones can hop on when they can't make a decent connection, and computers can hop onto the cell net when a wireless access point isn't available. Right now, it's working and free in many locations, such as the new airport.
Re:Year 2010? (Score:2, Insightful)
Think of a T3 pipe now. 45 Mbps. Blazing fast.
Now think of 100 Mbps by 2010 - more bandwidth than two T3s - for everybody in South Korea.
Not bad in just over 5 years. Especially now, when the majority of people here in the U.S. are still on dialup connections.
Why not with fiber? (Score:3, Insightful)
This give better speeds to your neighbour (which is always the nearest "mirror"), and have CableTV, Voice and Data services all integrated onto the same little strand of glass | plastic that comes to my house.
Re:Why not with fiber? (Score:5, Informative)
Because Fast Ethernet switches are chump change, and fiber switches cost more than many people's houses.
Optical switches are designed for backbones, not connecting everyone and their dog. DWDM, Sonet and ATM don't easily (or affordably) scale out to many-2-many connections.
Re:Why not with fiber? (Score:2)
Are they expensive for any reason other than that not many people buy them, though? Like DVD players were pretty expensive at day 1, and cost less than a McDonalds Happy Meal now.
Dammit! (Score:4, Funny)
Interesting Infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting Infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Interesting Infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
As for redundancy. Why would you suggest that it's difficult or expensive to build a redundant fast ethernet network?
And I'm really impressed with these sour grapes comments about what would anybody need that much bandwidth for. A lot of creativity going on here to explain why the US is falling behind without touching on the key point that free markets are only good at allocating scarce resources, they choke on abundance and we are entering an age of abundance. So. . .
Re:Interesting Infrastructure (Score:2)
More importantly ... (Score:2, Funny)
Only capable of 50-100Mbps?? (Score:2, Insightful)
Although, I suppose they've thought of this, and will lay fiber capable of much faster speeds, and just get cheap equipment rated for 50 to 100 Mbps. And I suppose 1+ Gbps EQ will be mcuh cheaper in 10 years..
As I think it out, perhaps they
Re:Only capable of 50-100Mbps?? (Score:5, Insightful)
All these posts who talk about 1 Gbps and fiber aren't thinking it through. The difficulties and costs aren't associated with the cabling or end-point connections -- they're at the switch.
1 Gbps is nice. Now pump an entire apartment unit with GE into the switch. What speed will the internal switch fabric have to support? Assume 200 apartment units, then that is in the neighborhood of 200 Gbps of switch fabric throughput. Consider most of the traffic will be going OUT of the building, the outside pipe will have to be something like an OC-48 ATM or 10-G ethernet connection.
Now THAT switch, and 1,000 more like it, all feed into different switches and the problem multiplies.
Think of the RAM buffers, latency and clock frequency that has to be maintained in the switch to handle 200 Gbps of thruput.
Cisco's top of the line Catalyst 6500 series boasts:
# 32-Gbps bus--Allowing access to a central shared bus
# 256-Gbps switch fabric--Located on the switch fabric module (SFM)
# 720 Gbps switch fabric--Located on Cisco Catalyst 6500 Series Supervisor Engine 720
So you ARE pushing the edge with mass deployment of fast ethernet.
Oh, yeah. Fully loaded 6513s run $100,000, easy.
Re:Only capable of 50-100Mbps?? (Score:3, Informative)
You're talking about usage -- which is commonly oversubscribed -- whereas I was talking manufacturer's specs.
Nothing will piss off customers more than selling a 100-unit 100 MBps switch where you can't use all the ports to 100 MBps. I used to work for Lucent, and the CBX-500 ATM switch had that issue. I fielded a lot of pissed off customers over that. Backplane/midplane fabric speeds were closely watched among telcos.
You're right -- they aren't going to be doing a lot of 100 MBps sustained tran
They already own us. (Score:5, Interesting)
While technology is increasing rapidly enough to make local network connectivity at extremely high speeds economically feasible for the first time, WAN technologies are still another story and lag behind by a few years. You still want dedicated 1.5mbit connectivity, you are STILL looking at around 800$+ dollars a month. (Key word being dedicated).
Good for the S. Korea!
that's 12%... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's some commitment to closing the 'digital divide'. Well, as long as they make reasonably affordable computers available to their citizens when this thing goes live.
Re:that's 12%... (Score:2)
$2000 per person before overruns! (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, maybe it is spread over fi
But will that be fast in 2010? (Score:5, Interesting)
In 2010 will 100 Mbits be considered fast or slow? Is there a "Moore's Law" for Internet access speeds? Back in about 1982 I was connecting to the local BBS with a 300 baud modem. A megabit download speed (today in 2003) is roughly 3000x that speed, and we're there after 20 years. That equates to almost exactly a 50% increase in speed per year. So if we go another 7 years at that rate, by 2010 we would consider 16 Mbit/sec to be fast.
Okay. I'm envious.
Re:But will that be fast in 2010? (Score:2)
100Mbs Already Available in Japan (Score:5, Interesting)
The best part is it's cheap,
They usually cost a little more than $40 a month.
Of course, it's still twice the price of 12Mbs ADSL lines in Japan like Yahoo BB [wired.com] who offers 12Mbs speed for $21/month. Most people don't know what to do with 100Mbs anyways.
Re:100Mbs Already Available in Japan (Score:2)
NTT also plans on having the entire of Japan connected with 100Mbs by 2010 as well. Even though the vast majority of the population already has 100mbs access.
I'm not sure how much it's going to cost NTT, but I'm sure it's not $80billion even for a country geographically larger than S. Korea and with a larger population. Another difference is one company plans on undertaking the t
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
-Crolis
$80.4 Billion ?!?!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
The only justification I see this having is the 370,000 new jobs, but how temporary are those jobs. Will most of them disapear after the system is put up and there is nothing left to build let alone money to build it with. To learn more about what we in the US could do with $80 billion(around what is being spent in Iraq go here [kucinich.us]
If we need it for such basic things I would think a less developed county would need it even more.
Re:$80.4 Billion ?!?!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
For that much money in the US we could do so much it is beyond most people's comprehension
For instance, we could wage a war of aggression against acountry that poses no threat to us.
Re:$80.4 Billion ?!?!!! (Score:2)
I guess Mugabe doesn't have any oil.
PS Your president is in the UK at the moment. Your media might not report it, Tony Blair is way out of line on public opinion. Most of us think Bush is a liar and a crook.
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:$80.4 Billion ?!?!!! (Score:2)
You don't know much about Tony Blair, do you?
As for Mugabe, he is doing what Bush and Blair are saying was a good reason for getting rid of Saddam - that he was torturing his people (note: they've dropped mentioning weapons).
His rule is not weak, he is in control of the country - he has control of the government, press and courts. He is basically murdering people and no-o
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:$80.4 Billion ?!?!!! (Score:4, Informative)
160 billion... (Score:2, Interesting)
For that price we could have covered the entire country TWICE with 10Mbit Ethernet!
It's all about perspective man!
Down with Bush! Up with 100Mbit ethernet!
Re:160 billion... (Score:2)
Re:160 billion... (Score:2)
Re:160 billion... (Score:2)
Which is this? I'm confused. It's not funny and it provides no information . . . I don't think I'm the one ruining 'your' community.
Re:160 billion... (Score:2)
So they're basically talking about... (Score:2, Interesting)
In fact, that's something that I've often wondered when I hear about super high-speed connections in other countries (like 100MB DSL in Japan for ~$30 a month). Is it only in America where we've let the industry cripple the future potential of broadband in such and insidious manner? (i.e. offering connections that can't really be used w/o having to pay extra)
Don't want caps? Pony up the cash! (Score:2, Insightful)
Your $30/month DS1-or-better speed xDSL line doesn't come close to paying your ISP's cost for that much bandwidth. Instead, you're sharing bandw
Re:So they're basically talking about... (Score:2)
No, try New Zealand, where 90% of the broadband is delivered via the incumbent's ISP [xtra.co.nz].
With traffic costs at $130 USD/Gigabyte of traffic, you have nothing to complain about in the US.
I do believe in paying for traffic - just read "The Tradegy of the Commons" and you will too, but I think the rate should be m
Only $80.4 billion? (Score:2)
50-100 Mbps sounds nice, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
(There's no mention of this in the article, so perhaps they haven't decided yet.)
Easy! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, government needs to take the lead on this (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as we American remain blinded to the possibility that government is good for something, we're going to remain forever a society of technological haves and have nots just like they have in the third world nations.
Also, this country pays $400,000,000,000 dollars each and every year for the military. That's over 20% of our annual budget. And after the Iraq war this year, it's probably closer to $600,000,000,000. It's quite astonishing to me that there is absolutely zero national debate about the size of our budget. We could have this entire country wired up in no time if are priorities were straight.
Re:Yes, government needs to take the lead on this (Score:4, Insightful)
At that point, we'd have a very sudden turnover in our elected officials, and some reasonable policies concerning what we spend our money on, and how much we take out of each taxpayer's pocket to do so. Come on, do we really need MORE subsidies to grow corn, just so we can turn it into mash and make ethanol out of it? What about subsides to build a $20 billion dollar giant natural gas pipeline from Alaska... to Illinois? Even MORE money for the already giant auto conglomerates so they can do more "research" on hydrogen fueled cars (just as they did "research" on electric cars in the 80's).
Make withholding illegal, and that will be the sparking point for the next American revolution. And it's about time - I'm tired of special interests picking my pockets with Uncle Sam's blessings.
Re:Yes, government needs to take the lead on this (Score:2)
one /. reader knows telecom: me (Score:5, Informative)
I just scanned through the two dozen that made a +3 or better so far and I'm astonished at the number of poor assumptions about physics, economics, network operations, and life in general.
The physics was the most egregious of the bunch and I think everyone who is smart enough to navigate far enough to see this *should* understand, but I can't resist brushing some of the others.
Moore's law is just an observation - its *NOT* a law. Why is someone applying this to available circuit speeds for WAN access? WAN access lines are very expensive and thusly that ground has been throughly worked by every telco equipment vendor - copper pairs are good for a about 2 mbits at the typical distance between a home/office and a CO, the next step up is DS3 delivered on coax (low loss, damned expensive compared to copper, and fiber refits in existing areas are crazy expensive. If it was possible high value DS3s filled with 672 voice channels would be the first thing going on some new wonder technology - this isn't happening, ergo it doesn't exist.
And why are they making statements like "100 mbit stuff is cheap on ebay, just build a national network out of it". Ethernet is a *LAN* protocol - 300' limit in most cases for copper, Cisco 2950-LRE are only good for a few thousand(hint, long reach ethernet == DSL), and who would want to manage a pile of crap from ebay? The number one expense in any network operation is almost certainly payroll and a crapola network guarantees 127% of revenue will be spent unfornicating it. If you want reliable service you pay for reliable gear. Once in a while you get lucky on the cheap but no business big enough to do a neighborhood size rollout would fool around like that, let alone a big telecom organization.
It seems to me the underpinnings of many of those posts are pure emotion coupled with a sense of entitlement - J Random
Mod me brilliant, mod me troll - the opinions of the readers are foolish and the moderators deserve a timeout for promoting such crap.
Nationalization of industry not always good... (Score:2, Interesting)
So not only will the tech be outdated by the time they finish half of the rollout, but getting a repair to your line that got cut by someone digging for a new building will take 2 years at least...
Generally it's best to let private industry manage the "commanding heights" in an economy (power, transportation, infrastructure). History has proven this time and again.
100Mbps was a reasonable choice (Score:5, Insightful)
People saying 100Mbps won't be fast in 7 years? Screw that. If you think we'll have even 1/10th of that in even 1% of the US in 2010 you're out of your mind. Huge areas of the nation don't even have 56k-capable telephone lines, let alone broadband. This won't change until it's profitable for the businesses to do otherwise. Monopolies own all the lines, and there is no government incentive. There won't be, either. (Which is good and bad)
I've got 1.5Mbps right now, with planned 3Mbps in a year or so. I've only had it for a few months. I don't see it going up much more by then, considering how long it took me to get above dialup...and certainly not to or above 100Mbps. Hell I bet 20Mbps will be a lot in 7 years if you live in the states and we're talking average residential internet speeds. Same goes for globally.
polish educational backbone (Score:2, Informative)
one thing everybody seems to be missing. (Score:3, Informative)
by 2010?!?!?! (Score:2, Insightful)
Infastructure is key to any type of growth. (Score:2, Insightful)
In the 50's, 60's and 70's we were ahead of the game with transportation and housing. We built one of the best transportation systems in the world. Over the last 30 years we have seen our infrascture start to decay and now we find ourselves scrambling to find something new to carry us. The 90's were bad for the economy but semi-decent for technology itself in the US.
Now in 00's, 10's and 20's the asian infastructure is going to be networks and technology. South Korea doing this project and China going to s
Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
Thank you and have a nice day.
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
Or level an entire country, save generations of Iraqis, and stop a tyrannical ruler.
However you would like to look at it.
(The timeframe would not increase in the US though. It would be pointless to start an infrastructure that would likely be dated before its completion date.)
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
save generations of Iraqis, and stop a tyrannical ruler.
Is this the same country we're talking about? We have either swapped Saddam for an Islamic caliphate, created anarchy, or we've shown our inability to remove a single dictator by force (if he manages to resurface). When we leave, we'll have put the Iraqis in a worse position, killed lots of people on both sides, and spent a ton of cash to do it.
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
I understand, but the same administration that proposed the war also proposed reworking our power grid - obviously, their reccomendations were ignored.
And Americans don't think terrorism started 9/11/01- just for the record. I don't think I want my government wasting money on trying to cover the US in cable though. We'll leave that to businesses and let the free market handle it - as it should.
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
WHAT? You think the figure is based on population?!? It's based on AREA! Geez. If we had the US population all fit inside S. Korea, then and only then would your comparison mean anything at all.
This great infrastructure will have to be well proven before corporate and economic interests are satisfied. There is no bandwidth guarantee - even if the literal wiring is there - it's just NOT that simple!
Re:Horrible Comparison (Score:2)
There are huge areas of the UK with next to no mobile phone coverage (Highlands of Scotland). Why? Because the population density is poor.
How much of the USA is populated by 95% of the population? Take out Alaska, Montana, the deserts and you could deliver to 95% without it requiring that much of the area (I don't know the figures myself, but I'm guessing the numbers are less than 40%).
land area and population density (Score:2)
Re:clearly OT (Score:5, Insightful)
Do the math. (Score:2)
Would you pay 11$ a month if you could get 3-6 megabyte/s download rates? I would. Even if I had to wait a few years before it fully kicked in. It's still a great deal.
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2, Funny)
Selfish Koreans, they could have liberated an entire other country and freed them from an oppressive dictator and his sadistic cronies, giving future generations a chance to live in a decent world with some sense of empoerment. Instead they'll just be watching pr0n and spewing spam.
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
High-speed internet is an incremental improvement for Korea.
True democratic liberty and freedom is a giant leap for Iraq.
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2, Offtopic)
If Iraq chooses an anti-US communist or islamic regime, you seriously think that the White House is going to just shrug its shoulders and say "well, that's democracy".
If the US was interested in freedom, they'd have in
Re: (Score:2)
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
Are you saying the US should fund this in Korea? Otherwise I would assume you mean wiring the US, which would clearly cost upwards of a trillion dollars - a number that is slightly more important.
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
The US government shits $87bn in social programs.
Actualy I think the money is mostly going to U.S. contracters, so it's more like corporate welfare, if you can call that a social program.
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
I understand.
I also find your honest to be very humorous.
That's cool.
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
Boy am I sick of hearing this. "Let's bomb an evil dictator out of his country, but not spend the money to leave the country in better shape than we left it."
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2)
Re:Spend the money on the network... (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the topic at hand, good for S.Koreans. It's nice to see a nation thinking forward and wiring it's population with a forward thinking attitude. The government has its finger on technology's pulse. Unlike in US, where we still have anti-competitive carriers/ISPs monopolizing regions and not getting reprimanded for it. We, as Americans, are behind the progress curve, in terms of broadband connectivity. There is a huge chunk of population still using 56k modems. I mean, Christ. Broadband should be a cheap commodity and a requirement in every house.
While Asia, Europe and other continents are focusing on the future and doing something about it, our politicians are dicking around with special interests and not thinking of the implications 10 years down the line.
South Korea: Lets build a grid and give every citizen access to broadband.
United States: Let companies decide instead of the consumers. Profit comes first.
South Korea: Technology is the future. Internet access is a basic human right.
United States: Intellectual Property is being violated, lets greenlight tyrants like **AA to set the agenda. MP3 Downloading has to stop.
South Korea: Open Source in Government? Lets keep our options open.
United States: Let Microsoft get away with everything, as long as they contribute to political campaigns.
As you can see, we'll be still arguing about having pioneered the Internet and other technologies in irrelevancy, while other nations surpass ours and make the rules.
Stop with the generic US bashing (Score:2, Insightful)
I think its unfair to take pot shots at the USA, and villanize us. We have a different system than South Korea, its more of an economic ecosystem rather than an engineered environment. If their system works for them, then great.
I am doubtfull of how sucessfull it
Re:Spend the money on the network... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:not money well spent (Score:2)
Re:not money well spent (Score:2, Informative)
Re:87bil for iraq or 80.4bil for this? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Envy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead, we wait for the local phone company.
Re:Envy? (Score:3, Insightful)
We can have all of the infrastructure we want, its not helping me. I pay 45/month for a 3mbps connection, and i dont have choice since its the only high speed provider in my area. just like phone companies and cable companies, ISP's are turning into a local gov't approved monopoly, its a friggin joke.
"We have the freedom of choice, we dont have to wait for ou
Re:Envy? (Score:2)
Re:Envy? (Score:2)
speed over a short distance is not the issue. speed over a long distance is the issue. many people dont live close to cities (esp in the south and midwest.) so the technology/freq. used to transmit the data must be able to pe
Re:Envy? (Score:2)
Forget Spam (Score:2, Funny)
Re:So they can spam much faster. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:But, what about latency? (Score:2)
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Re:50-100 (Score:2)
Re:Before you all slap them on the back.... (Score:2)
In fact, the way the war in Iraq is going, they'll have to start drafting in the USA soon (did someone say "police action").
Did you know that the media are now banned from filming US coffins coming home?
Re:Before you all slap them on the back.... (Score:2)
Re:I hate you all (Score:2)