Free Internet Access Is Profitable In Egypt 197
prostoalex writes "With the demise of free Internet access providers, it's interesting to see this model working in Egypt, where the state-owned telecom allows people to dial-up for free as long as they pay the regular phone access fees. Associated Press quotes the phone line charges being 25 cents per hour. The ISPs that promote free Internet access from Telecom Egypt are then given their share of the profit."
Just what I need... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Just what I need... (Score:1)
Thanks for the laugh.
hmm (Score:1)
Re:hmm (Score:2)
If only we had single media monopoly... (Score:2)
Re:hmm (Score:1)
That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
Need I say more?
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
You know why? Because $0.25 an hour only takes 80 hours (2.5 hrs a day) to get to $20 a month, and that's roughly what internet service providers charge for unlimited service.
so, no, i don't see what's so revolutionary about this. It is possible in our system, it's probably already been evaluated as a possible business and discarded due to its lack of feasability.
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
Some of these commercials for free Internet here (like Juno and NetZero, for example) will say free but then have fine print that says something like "local telephone charges may apply."
That's the point of this whole damn thing.
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:2)
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
This Egyptian style access is what we get in Ireland and it sucks. Works out much more expensive than the flat rate available in Northern Ireland and Great Britain (unless you use a tiny no. of minutes a month).
see
[eircomtribunal.com]
http://www.eircomtribunal.com/
to discover how bad value the "free" service is.
Only thing it is good for is for visiting tourists with laptops who need no more than a telephone number to get internet access cheap as the natives
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
yeah, but... (Score:2)
Re:yeah, but... (Score:1)
Re:That doesn't sound very free.. (Score:1)
From what I hear... (Score:1)
Mutual benefit (Score:3, Funny)
They just pay out a small portion for this, it is like quantity based discounts that other companys use.
Around the world (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Around the world (Score:1)
I'd rather pay money.
Re:Around the world (Score:1)
Re:Around the world (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure the ads are all on the log-on screen, but I can't recall. Besides, the way you get disconnected, you're probably logging on a lot.
Re:Around the world (Score:1)
I'm in portugal, and in here there are a lot of free ISPs that are paid by the phone companies. I don't know exactly, but I assume they get about 20-30% from the call fees. At night an hour costs about 0.60.
The connections are mostly horrible. People can rarely connect at first attempt, and 3kb/sec is considered an excelent download speed from a 56k modem. We get what we pay for, I guess..
And as they are free, one can keep several accounts on different ISPs, and use one at random, and hope that it works. Doesn't work? No problem, try another...
But there are a lot of such ISPs.. clix.pt, oninet.pt, sapo.pt, iol.pt, vizzavi.pt, etc... They are paid by the telecoms, and also offer free access as a teaser for their paid service, be it modem dial-up, isdn or adsl.
I can't think of using such ISPs... they are slow, costumer support is inexistent, some don't even offer pop3 email... but they're as cheap as it gets... Most of my friends (about 95%) that are connected to the net use free ISPs. The others have cable for about 50 a month (tv, internet and phone).
Re:Around the world (Score:2)
Luckily I don't live in Brazil anymore, but I really pity my family members when I get back. *shrudder* You really get what you pay for.
Re:Around the world (Score:1)
Re:Around the world (Score:2)
Re:Around the world (Score:1, Informative)
Simple. We pay a flat-fee for our telephone line. We use it as much or as little as we want. It's our phone line. We're paying for it every month.
In a region where you have to pay per minute for phone usage, it's in the phone company's best interest to find encouraging reasons for you to spend more and more time on the telephone. This is just a service they can spend to get you to stay on. Sort of like BBS's of past where you paid for time on an account and then they installed MUDs and doorgames to make you spend your time up (and, thus, buy more time).
In America, if you got the ISP access for free but had to pay for the phone time (forgetting the fact that a dial-up account is a horrible HORRIBLE way to live), it would cost a hell of a lot for. Since I tellecommute, this would be doubly so.
Let us see. I wake up around 6am. Get online. Stay online until about 1am. Go to bed. Still am downloading/serving stuff for the five hours in between while I'm asleep.
25 cents per hours. Six bucks per day. 186 bucks per month. Hm. I get 640k up and down on a DSL line with half a dozen static IP's and no limitation to what I can use it for (servers, web hosting, email servers - whatever I want to do) for about $135/mo.
25 Cents US? (Score:4, Interesting)
How much is that in terms of the average Egyptian's income?
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:1)
Syria seems to charge 2 cents per minute. I'm not allowed there, and my familiarity with the country is limited to being shelled and rocketed by them when I was little, but I certainly doubt Egypt's middle class can afford much more.
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:1)
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:2)
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:1)
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:1)
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:2)
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:2)
From 1958 to 1961 the two countries came together under one flag as the United Arab Republic, if that makes you feel any better.
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:1)
Their per capita GDP is $3000 per person, about 1/11 of the US, and the distribution of wealth/income is not unreasonable.
I'm not sure what you mean by ``not unreasonable'', but I'm not going to get into what I consider a reasonable way to distribute wealth ;)
I assume you meant that it's comparable to the U.S., since you used the ratio to extrapolate. Having lived in Egypt for nearly three years in the late 1990s, I can categorically say that the distribution of wealth is far more uneven than even the U.S.'s. As some reference points, a friend of mine earned circa US$70 (seventy dollars) per month from his job as an instructor at University of Alexandria -- and that's with a master's degree in English. Pita bread cost less than two cents U.S. per piece at the bakery, and you could feed a family (on bread and beans) for less than a dollar a day.
Put in that context, a quarter-dollar an hour is a lot of money.
Re:25 Cents US? (Score:2)
25 Cents US = 1.15 Egyptian Pounds (Score:2)
Looking for current data on income, the world bank cites a figure of $1,490 [worldbank.org] for Gross National Income per capita in 2000. So, that's about 6700LE. Africare says it's more like $3,420 [africare.org] (=15,903LE), but that's "real GDP per capita."
Getting useful numbers is tricky, especially when you're talking about a country like Egypt that has a vast off-the-books economy going on.
I don't like it .... (Score:2, Interesting)
Americans hate pay per use pricing schemes. Notice how all of the cell phone companies have moved to flat rates for a large number of minutes
Okay, well we've worked out the first two at least.
Re:I don't like it .... (Score:1)
Re:I don't like it .... (Score:1)
it costs 25c an hour to use the phone, it doesn't matter if you online or talking to a friend across town. free internet saves them the 20$ or whatever it costs there
Re:I don't like it .... (Score:1)
Re:I don't like it .... (Score:1)
Not if it's a local call.
Re:I don't like it .... (Score:2)
um okay. (Score:1)
$180 per month for 24/7? (Score:1)
Re:$180 per month for 24/7? (Score:1)
Re:$180 per month for 24/7? (Score:2)
Although I 100% agree with you, I'm on 56gay and my line is up 24/7. I pay $178US a year. I can run whatever I want (yea, it's just a modem but, still...). I run SSH, my own mail, etc. And anytime anyone in the household sits down to a machine on the LAN, the Internet will be there. Anytime I need to check on my LAN or need a 100% external connection from work for testing or something, it's there. Granted I happen to have a pretty damn good ISP (I only get hung up on every 1.5 to 2 weeks (yes, seriously).
The point is, what I pay a year is what (roughly) these folks over there would pay a month.
OUCH!
Re:$180 per month for 24/7? (Score:2)
You're damn right I would! I'm not infering different.
~
It was only a few years ago that I was paying $3 an hour for access, and only a few years before that I was dialing up Prodigy long distance for around $6
I feel very bad for you. I'm with what was called at one time Erols. They got swallowed by RCN a few years ago. I've been paying the same rate for almost 5 years now. I THINK (IIRC), when I signed with Erols, it was like $172US a month. Since RCN grabbed them, it went up to $178US a YEAR. That's $14.83 a month. Dirt cheap. This goes back to around '95 or '96 (I honestly forget when I first signed with them).
~
Even for you, it's more of a luxury than a need.
Yup. You are right again. It is a luxury; one which I'm getting every cent out of. I have been for a bunch of years now. And to reitterate a previos agreement, yes, I wouldn't be doing this if I was paying hourly.
~
I don't see why this was modded up.
It wasn't. I post at +2 when I want to...
Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:2)
This is always true.
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:1)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:1)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:1)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:1)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:1)
Re:Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Re: NO Free internet access at college (Score:1)
Trust me, you pay for access at college. And if you use "too much" bandwidth, you get your port shut off. Of course, most of the time they do not define "too much," and also block many websites (i.e. any file sharing website).
What is interesting is that this same type dial-up access is also used in Singapore. There is free dial-up but you have to pay for phone usage. I am not sure if it is profitable, but it is still being offered. All incoming and outgoing phone calls are charged in Singapore depending on the time of day.
Re: NO Free internet access at college (Score:2)
Trust me, you pay for access at college.
Trust me, you pay for access in Egypt as well.
There is free dial-up but you have to pay for phone usage.
I don't get it. If you have to pay, then it's not free.
How is that free? (Score:1)
Successful in India (Score:3, Informative)
In Ireland (Score:1)
It is not bad, (no contract) but leaves a bit to be desired, and there is NO affordable broadband access
m
England uses this model as well (Score:1)
Re:England uses this model as well (Score:2)
One big advantage was that they didn't need to have a billing operation at all. Abuse was prevented by severely limiting what you could do if you withheld caller line ID. And they hijacked all outgoing SMTP. They didn't "officially" support Linux, but informally they did.
It did seem to work well, and they were profitable within a year of starting up. Ultimately, their customers demanded "flat fee, toll-free numbers". Also freeserve got swallowed up by something that got swallowed up, and the people I knew who worked there said it no longer was fun to do so.
Bad Idea (Score:1)
Re:Bad Idea (Score:2)
You've got it backward.
Peak dialup internet usage comes about 4 hours later in the day than peak phone usage.
So the Egyptian phone company has found a way to make use of excess phone network capacity that is required to accommodate daytime usage but which goes underutilized in the evenings.
This would theoretically make it possible for phone rates to go down.
Re:Bad Idea (Score:2)
You sound like someone who's never used the internet from Egypt.
The country shares about as much bandwidth as you could squeeze through a 2400bps modem.
Internet undercapacity manifests itself with a more graceful degradation than POTS undercapacity. So while it would be politically damaging for the PTT minister to consistently fail to provide dial tone, it's less so to provide slow IP throughput.
And in any case, apply a little slice of Occam's Razor here. There's no rational reason to believe the PTT would deliberately throw away rare and precious money by subsidizing dialup internet, just so they could get a mention on Slashdot.
So.... (Score:1)
Move along folks nothing to see here.
don't privatize! (Score:2, Insightful)
Do privatize! (Score:1, Insightful)
Isn't that what they were before privitization???? The problem isn't the idea of privitization itself, it is that there is too little of it. Monopolies exist because of government regulation that keeps the small fish out. We need to privitize with even less government regulation.
"Telmex is running their competition, even the giants like Worldcom-backed Avantel and AT&T, into the ground via dumping"
Dump on! This means the customers end up paying less.
Not big news (Score:4, Informative)
The real fact of the matter is that the service isn't free.. It's just being paid for through your phone bill.
Because I get my ADSL from my phone company (Telus) I can also pay for it through my phone bill... Does this mean that I'm getting my ADSL for free too?
(at $40CAN/month ($25US) for 1.5megabit down and 500kbit up, some people might claim that I really do)
This will work in the U.S... (not) (Score:1, Troll)
Wait? What's that you say? We all like paying a flat rate for unlimited local calling?
Hmm.. I suppose this means this model will never work in the U.S. after all.
I'll take unlmited free local calling any day... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'll take unlmited free local calling any day.. (Score:2)
>>>>>>>>>
Note to self: After ascending to high-dictatorship of the universe, raise phone rates. It will decrease the general stupidity of the population.
Re:I'll take unlmited free local calling any day.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'll take unlmited free local calling any day.. (Score:2)
Not Free (Score:3, Interesting)
This is really a strategy by the State of Egypt to keep itself firmly in control of the Internet in the country. The deals with local ISP's to split the money are just to ensure the ISP's loyalty. They are being bought by the state.
nothing new (Score:1)
To the tune of "Go Down Moses" (Score:1)
let us gratis surf,
They raked in cash fist under hand,
let us gratis surf,
Refrain:
Go down, users,
way down in Egypt's land;
tell Tel'com Egypt
let us gratis surf!
Whoa, really, you dont say? (Score:1)
The view from the trenches in Ireland (Score:4, Insightful)
For the phone company and ISPs, this "Free" Internet Access Is Profitable In Ireland, also.
Few people like it, and would rush to support the other side of the fence, in which there is a flat rate of about $40 euro a month for dialup, and that is it (following the typical unmetered approach available in most of North America). An option of pay-for-phonecall is good, but when the phone company colludes with ISPs to make it the only option available, it cripples the country's online growth.
The largest ISP in Ireland is IrelandOnline(IOL).
The nexus of protest against this forced free-but-pay-for-the-phonecall scam is logically located at IrelandOffline.org [irelandoffline.org]
Re:The view from the trenches in Ireland (Score:2)
As late as 1985, it took three manual operators to get a voice call through from moderately remote spots in Ireland to the outside world. Regular phone calls were still going through cord boards. But Telex, the teletype-based message system, worked well. Some people were putting in Telex terminals (big mechanical teletype machines) in farm houses in the middle of nowhere so they could communicate with their neighbors.
Poland (Score:4, Insightful)
But I wouldn't call it free in the presence of people that still are in this dial-up hell if I were you.
-jfedor
Free? (Score:1)
They still have to pay 25 cents an hour, and that is a lot considering how much average Egyptian makes.. So no its not free internet... Its like AOL merging with BellSouth or whatever Bell there is in your area and saying we offer free internet access as long as u pay Bell $$$ an hour..
UK Too (Score:1)
I'll say it again: (Score:1)
Free internet access that costs 25 cents a minute? Is that free as in "we're uncommonly dull" free?
Slashdot discovers hot water (Score:5, Informative)
It's not just Egypt, it's any place with no flat local phone rates, i.e. basically everywhere except North America . Example: it's the standard in Switzerland [bluewin.ch].
(See also Estonia [slashdot.org], Brazil [slashdot.org], Portugal [slashdot.org], India [slashdot.org], Ireland [slashdot.org], Argentina [slashdot.org], Guatemala [slashdot.org], England [slashdot.org], Poland [slashdot.org], ...)
Slashdot editors need to get out more.
Why Single out Egypt? (Score:5, Informative)
I think it would be more appropriate to call it "Free Internet Fails in USA, works everywhere else"
Anyone know why Egypt is getting singled out?
More Around the World (Score:1)
I get a better deal in the USA... (Score:1)
My local phone service provider [core.com] wanted to get into the Cleveland, OH. market badly to offset Ameritech [ameritech.net] they made an offer I could not refuse:
unlimited local phone service.
10 cents local toll and long distance.
call waiting included.
caller ID included.
800 number (if I wanted it).
unlimited dial-up internet.
At the time I got this, it was $25.99 per month. However, about 6 months ago, that price rose to $39.99 per month. But, I still pay $25.99 per month because the service said they would honor that deal as long as I do not cancel (according to them, I was a "good customer"). Even at $39.99, it is still a bargin!
Even if I did not have this deal, I prefer an unlimited internet package so I do not need to worry about running up the internet bill. Screw the per hour toll!
It's even cheaper than a quarter (Score:2)
It's 10 pt/6 minutes, or 1 LE/hour, which is $0.22 at today's exchange rate. If you're connecting between midnight and 8 am, it's only 75 pt/hour, or $0.16!
So, what does a dollar buy you these days? With 07777777, it gets you over 4.5 hours of internet access. Thanks, GegaNet!
My question is what kind of throughput can you get over the average Egyptian phone line? I somehow doubt that it's a solid 56K from most locations.
"Free" and "Egypt" (Score:2)
Re:So for 24x7.... (Score:1)
Re:So for 24x7.... (Score:1)
24 hours * 7 days in a week * 30 days in a month = 1 month?
Riiiight.
$0.25/hour would actually total about $180/month for 24/7 access. That's still insanely expensive for dial-up (these days), however small the chances of someone staying connected constantly actually are.
--
[McP]KAAOS
Re:So for 24x7.... (Score:1)
Wouldn't it be $0.25*24*30=$180.00 per month? Still alot though. Cable modem is still much cheaper.