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OpenDJ UNIX-based P2P Streamer 148

Posted by michael from the unix-does-it-better dept.
hardcorejon writes "I found the Streamer software interesting, particularly because I've also written a remarkably similar piece of software, called OPENdj. Because Streamer requires Windows, I thought my fellow Slashdot readers would be interested in OPENdj, which is an open source Java/Linux-based distributed streamer. Development on OPENdj began over a year ago, with version 1.0.0 appearing this past May. It has some slick features, including automatic archiving, archive search, stream meta-tagging, listener counts and chat rooms. Download it, bang on it, send me patches :)"
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OpenDJ UNIX-based P2P Streamer More

OpenDJ UNIX-based P2P Streamer

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  • It works!! And it doesn't crash!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Travoltus ( 110240 ) on Sunday June 30, 2002 @01:39PM (#3796339) Journal
    Dear developer:
    OpenDJ doesn't crash!
    Is this a bug or a feature?
    Will you be putting the crash thingee back in so as to make it comparable to its closed source Windows counterpart? :)
    • Unfortunatly this feature cannot be implemented within the application as the bug was caused by the windows OS. If you wish to re-enable this feature then you will need to change some of the kernel code (just delete a few random lines here and there!) and re-compile. Once you have performed this task you will find that most(if not all) of your linux applications will act just like their windows counter-parts.
    • It's not closed source anymore...
      streamer [u-net.com]
    • It might have been once, but it isn't any longer.

  • P2P streaming... (Score:2, Redundant)

    by User 956 ( 568564 )
    I've gone from being completely indifferent about internet radio to being a huge fan of it in the span of about a year. I have not listened to broadcast music in a couple years now. Just about everything I listened to for a long time came out of my friends and I's CD pools. We'd make compilation albums for each other or just snag songs we particularly enjoyed from albums in each others collections. Broadcast radio has always been shit but recently it has been so bad I simply can't stand to listen to it. I began to go to dozens of concerts from LA to San Diego. Last year I think I tallied 35 concerts in about 9 months. Was I going to see bigass arena shows being hyped by radio stations? Only in a very small handful of cases like the Yahoo Outloud Weezer tour, when I went to the LA and SD shows. Most shows I was going to were indie rock shows and small local shows. Anyhow, I was going to these shows SPECIFICALLY because the bands weren't being played on the radio.

    Now it is facing some stiff opposition in the form the RIAA and their demonic minions. I don't want to see internet radio go down because it is the only inexpensive way I've got left to get introduced to some good music. Sharing with my bearded linux hippie friends is nice but there isn't enough variety to really find off the wall shit I end up really digging. P2P radio seems like an obvious solution because of the P2P buzzword culture surging as of late. The model however runs into serious problems. The RIAA doesn't have to go after a single individual or group of individuals to take out P2P radio like they were able to with various sharing programs. All they have to do is make some deals with cable and DSL providers. Lets say there was a popular P2P radio in my town, all it would take is a deal or lawsuit against Charter and he would be toasted. We'd all end up with our bandwidth curtailed more than it already is and P2P radio would end up specifically forbidden in the AUP.
    • for those of you interested in bands that promote the distribution of their live material try FurthurNet [furthurnet.com]

      It's very similar to Limewire in look/feel but only allows the trading of music by artists that allow the taping of their shows (and videotaping as well).

      There is a Java client for those non-native OS's (Linux, etc).

      I use it daily, it seems stable enough on my machine, try it out and see if you like it.
      • for those of you interested in bands that promote the distribution of their live material try FurthurNet [furthurnet.com] It's very similar to Limewire in look/feel but only allows the trading of music by artists that allow the taping of their shows (and videotaping as well).

        Thanks for the suggestion. I've mostly gone back to listening to my own CD collection, but for a long time I was listening one of the various SomaFM [somafm.com] streams, sitting back, coding, and occasionally writing down the name of a new group [tres-belle.net] or album that I had never heard. I have made dozens of CD purchases [foetusized.org] based on that list. That source [somafm.com] is gone now, and the list [foetusized.org] (along with CD purchasing [cdnow.com] for the last few months) is frozen with its departure.

        Another funny anecdote: While driving (the only time I ever consider subjecting myself to broadcast radio) recently, I actually heard a song I liked. Missed the name of the artist [http], but I paid close attention to the lyrics to see if I could pick out keywords. Went home, logged in to the nearest P2P network [about.com] and had that exact song in less than 30 minutes.

        If someone would develop a system with that kind of response time, that would allow me to download what I want by the song, I'd pay for that. The RIAA has had at least half a decade to develop such a system, yet instead they have tried to legislate the technology back into Pandora's Box [pandorasbox.com].

        This disgusts me to no end [216.239.33.100], and I think I'm now fed up enough where this will now become a personal crusade for me. These leeches do the public, and the arts no good. They've refused to evolve, so now it's time for their extinction.
    • This is an outright repost of this [slashdot.org] comment, on the other P2P Radio story.

  • I'm here for your questions and comments (Score:4, Informative)

    by hardcorejon ( 31717 ) <jonathan.kyuss@org> on Sunday June 30, 2002 @01:42PM (#3796347)
    Hello slashdot folk.

    I'm really interested in getting as much feedback on OPENdj as I can. Towards that end, if you have any questions, comments, concerns that you'd like to direct towards me, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    - jonathan.

    • Suggestion: Obey the DMCA (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You need to add copy protection and close the source of your software. Show some respect for the DMCA you criminal.

    • Port to C immediately (Score:1, Informative)

      by HanzoSan ( 251665 )
      You wont get any development support if you keep using java. Port to C.

      Java apps are not easy to install usually for any OS because they require a Virtual Machine, why not just use C and develop cross platform? Please tell me why you picked java?

      Thats the only problem i have with your app. I understand java allows easier cross platform development but you could have done the same thing with C, it wouldnt be as quick and easy but you'd have better support and better code in the long run.
      • ALso try reading the damn site for development....

        __________________________________________

        New project: opendj-libopendj
        OK, folks, I know that the current client broadcasting software (in Java) really sucks. The user interface is clunky, the installation is a pain, and the massive download size of the Java Runtime Environment is intolerable for DJs who are supposed to only need a 56K modem to broadcast.

        Solution: opendj-libopendj and opendj-client-qt
        The opendj-libopendj project, already underway, aims to provide a C library API interface to the client-side of the OPENdj Protocol. opendj-libopendj uses the Apache project's APR library to achieve platform independence.

        The opendj-client-qt project, which is not yet started, will use opendj-libopendj as a foundation for a platform independent, C++ client based on the Qt Toolkit.

      • Porting to C for the client has already begun.

        If someone wants to port the server, by all means, go for it.

        And, IMHO, FreeNet is taking so long NOT because it's written in Java, but because their requirements are pretty insane. The protocol itself is fantastically complex. The OPENdj protocols are intentionally lightweight and simple.

        See my other post [slashdot.org] on why I chose to go with Java.

        - jonathan.

        • All these coding gods telling you to port your code to C and I don't even see one of them having put out a single danged product worth mentioning.

          Smell the irony, Jonathan.

          Keep on keeping on. Do it in Java, do it in C, but most of all, DO IT RIGHT!!
      • You wont get any development support if you keep using java. Port to C.

        That's kinda funny; I keep telling people that I'd love to help them out with their projects, if they'd port to Java.

        Java apps are not easy to install usually for any OS because they require a Virtual Machine, why not just use C and develop cross platform? Please tell me why you picked java?

        I develop java, because that is the language I know; I don't post in chineese because I don't speak chineese. Sure - you can develop cross platform, and I'm sure it's easy as pie, which is probably why everyone who develops in C develops cross platform.

        The problem in your proposal is, that you need to support a huge number of platforms - with java you only need one; granted, the platform needs to support Java, but that's not my problem. Also I doubt you can reuse much code between Sparc+Solaris and x86+Linux.

        I understand java allows easier cross platform development but you could have done the same thing with C, it wouldnt be as quick and easy but you'd have better support and better code in the long run.

        Why would it have better support? And why on earth would it result in better code? I am yet to see any buffer overflows in Java, and they are probably the most common bug in software; even good developers fall for those.

        Now - why don't you port it to C, and all the platforms that support java? Even if OpenDJ is not open source, I'm quite sure the author would allow you to do so. Or are you only in this for the right to bicker?
      • Please tell me why you picked java?

        I'm not him, but it might have something to do with Java being type-safe, portable, and immune to the innumerable overrun screws that plague code written in C.

        Unchecked buffers are bad, m'kay?
      • You might try keeping up with what's been happening over the last year or two.

        Compile Java with gcc (er, gcj) and (if you want) you get native code, just like with C, but without the buffer overflows.

        C is for kernels and (perhaps) heavily used libraries. Anything else should use a higher level language.
        • ok so if java is so easily compiled in gcc why then isnt everyone using GCC? I have yet to see a native java app, show me one.

          And a high level language? C is high level. C isnt assembly you know
          • I have yet to see a native java app, show me one.

            Lazy, ignorant, demanding SOB, aren't you? Okay, take a look at XWT [xwt.org], for one. Also take a look here [sourceforge.net] and here. [gnu.org]

            Of course, the executable for a native Java app isn't going to look any different to the casual file(1) command than one compiled from C, C++ or even Fortran.

      • Java apps are not easy to install usually for any OS because they require a Virtual Machine, why not just use C and develop cross platform?


        s/Java/Perl/

        Is this the only / real problem you have with Java?

        I disagree with the "better support and better code"; C is more diagonal than Java, and diagonality leads to obfuscation. (Perl being the most diagonal language I know; I love that feature of Perl, but it is not this that I am disagreeing with ;) ). Java is exceptionally orthogonal, hence there is, more-often than in diagonally inclined languages, a "best way" to do something. Best ways imply easier support and better code. On the other hand, it is oft faster, and more artistic, to implement diagonal code. YMMV.

        Cheers


    • Offer a download button which downloads all the file in one tar or zip, have some instructions on how to install it on your website.
    • Please can we get a header translation so that those of us can build upon your framework.

      And also Windows... The client should have Windows support.

      Thanks.
  • This is kind of funny as you just spent the last few hours pimping the program all over the 'streamer' story. Anyway, I have a question. How is this program distributed, I think I looked over the docs carefully, it seems like more of an automatic co-op timeshare software.

    Thanks,
    -Jon
    • Yeah, "pimping" would be one word for it. Too much coffee, no sleep, and getting a little too excited is what happened. I'm sorry if it came across as spam-ish, that's the last impression I want to give.

      But anyway, you're right, I thnk of OPENdj as not really P2P but more like "public access" Internet radio. A soapbox that anyone can stand on and shout!

      - jonathan.

  • hmm (Score:1)

    by mj_sf ( 585835 )
    seems like an 'almost' good idea gettin this on the front page of /. wonder if the service'll get un-intentionally slashdotted?
    • Yes, I am getting slashdotted. Seems to be performing OK for now, we'll see what happens when 100 people try to listen at once...

      - jonathan.

  • I [slashdot.org] think [slashdot.org] we [slashdot.org] already [slashdot.org] got [slashdot.org] this [slashdot.org] "story" [slashdot.org] in the comments seven stories down [slashdot.org].

    Yeah yeah, I know I know... troll/flamebait. *sigh* Whatever.
    • I mean, he never posted offtopic or anything. It's not like some people haven't been posting the same stuff for years now. If the guy wants to promote or raise awareness about an open source project that's relevent to the current discussion, I say why not. Just as long he doesn't go overboard and start spamming or something.

      W
      • I agree. However, as I was wading through that discussion maybe it just _seemed_ like everytime anyone mentioned some fallacy of p2p he would pop up and say 'That's where OpenDJ comes in!' I'm all for Open Source awareness/promotion and if there's *really* nothing else going on the world I won't even complain about this story anymore(it is Sunday here after all). It was just obnoxious after seeing a constant pimping of his program in another (albeit relevant) thread there being an entire story on it which has no new information a couple hours later.

        Point well taken, though.
    • A lot of people read at 3+ because of crap posts like this one, so they may not have seen that post. We'll note that the comment didn't get modded up at all. Also, after viewing the linked page in the news posting, they may not have read the comments because they saw it was Windows only.I feel this is valid news that is completely acceptable. Just because you already know about something doesn't make it any less news worthy.
    • Maybe it was easier to give him a damned story, and hope he'll shut the hell up. You don't see me pimping my project except once in my journal, and in my url.

      Too bad I'm just a PHB, and my programmer bailed on me:(

  • fees (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 30, 2002 @01:54PM (#3796381)
    question: how will you avoid getting killed by the fees on internet radio broadcasting? Don't you have to keep a log of exactly who is listening, what is broadcast, etc etc?

  • Judo Radio (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gojomo ( 53369 ) on Sunday June 30, 2002 @01:54PM (#3796382) Homepage
    This still seems to have a dependence on OpenDJ's reservation/scheduling/archiving server, and I don't see how it uses P2P techniques to multiply the listener base at no cost to the broadcaster.

    There's no need to actually invent new P2P-stream-distribution techniques: a better approach would be to merge live, refreshing station playlists with existing P2P file-sharing networks, like Gnutella, ED2K, FastTrack, etc.

    You can think of this as as "Judo Radio" because it uses a tiny, smart control channel to throw around a giant amount of content that lives and travels on outside networks.

    I wrote more about it here:

    It's not quite the same as typical P2P-webcasting proposals because it leverages open, ownerless content-distribution networks that are already in place, and in fact the "stations" can be agnostic about how the data arrives to audiences. They just say, "get and listen to this next", ad infinitum.

    Whether the "stations" need any licenses whatsoever to the tracks they "recommend" seems a debatable point to me: the stations themselves make no copies of copyrighted material at all, instead leaving that completely up to the audience to do on their own.

    This approach thus has the same resiliency (or weakness) of the underlying P2P file-sharing networks themselves.

    • Wow. That's a really interesting idea.

      OPENdj works because the upstream connection from the broadcaster can be virtually anything (like a 56k modem), and the server relays the signal over a high-bandwidth connection to the listeners. In that sense, it's not the P2P that you refer to. But from the viewpoint that "anyone who can listen could also broadcast" (any client is also a potential server), it is P2P.

      The difference between OPENdj and a simple relay is that opendj acts as a "controller" to the encoder port, and enforces the channels schedule by only allowing the correct broadcaster to connect and stream. OPENdj also handles the "hand-off" when one broadcaster finishes and other needs to start. Imagine one guy in brazil, the other in london, and the stream transitions is seamless to the listener.

      There's a lot more material explaining how this all works (and other nifty features too) on the OPENdj project site [opendj.org].

      - jonathan.


    • They just say, "get and listen to this next", ad infinitum.


      An interesting idea, but I believe it will be let down by the unreliability of P2P networks. Downloading a particular piece of content from current P2P services often requires a long period of trying various sources for an open download slot. In a real-time medium like radio this delay would be unacceptable.
  • So, if you've written a piece of software, all you have to do to get an article about it on Slashdot is wait until an article about a similar program is published. Then, you bomb [slashdot.org] the [slashdot.org] thread [slashdot.org] with [slashdot.org] links [slashdot.org] to [slashdot.org] your [slashdot.org] project [slashdot.org], wait a while, submit a story about your project, and Bob's your uncle. Easy. *Crawls back under a rock, waiting for the next article even remotely touching file managers*. ;^)
  • more from a comment by the same author :)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=35116&cid=37 94 975
  • Say you download an MP3 from a P2P network. Isn't that streaming too? Or is streaming defined only as content delivered at its real-time rate and/or content that the user cannot directly control (i.e., requests are allowed, but not directly manipulating the stream-er to deliver a specific song)

    One wonders whether non-realtime "streaming" (read: downloading) can also be made illegal by RIAA/CARP
    • Say you download an MP3 from a P2P network. Isn't that streaming too?

      Only if you're listening to it while you're downloading it.

      Or is streaming defined only as content delivered at its real-time rate


      You'd need some major QoS across the entire Internet for that to work. All good streamers cache (buffer) data.

      One wonders whether non-realtime "streaming" (read: downloading) can also be made illegal by RIAA/CARP


      Whether you allow people to download it or stream it, you're still distributing it. Wireless radio stations pay fees, IP radio stations will soon pay fees. Of course, the point of all this software, in my (idealistic) mind, is for non-RIAA-controlled content, but there will be lots of people playing top40 crap anyway.

      Many content providers really like streaming because, in many cases, users can't easily save their content and redistribute it. Note the lack of a 'save' button in RealPlayer.
  • First file sharing, now radio! How about someone does this for Instant Messaging next. This would seem even more important then the first two.

    Please give me some comments on this. Is it even possible ?

    For user authentication, how about SSH Certificates or PGP keys ?
  • Goodness there have been quite a lot of streaming stories lately. I hope you'll also take a look at my project Andromeda [turnstyle.com], which dynamically builds streaming pages with PHP or ASP.

    fwiw, Andromeda has been well received on Freshmeat [freshmeat.net]. -Scott

  • I'm looking for mention of UNIX in this article, and all I'm seeing is a Linux derivate. What gives?

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