Madrid's HiTech Shanty Town 214
Alien54 writes: "As reported in CNN, a hi-tech shanty town has arisen in Madrid, Spain, complete with pirated utilities and computer access. Known locally as El Campamento de Esperanza (The Camp of Hope), it is now a village of about 1,200 inhabitants, with libraries, bars, hot showers and cafeterias serving daily meals. They are skilled engineers and technicians, formerly employed by Sintel Telecommunications, a Spanish telecom company that filed for bankruptcy protection in 2000. With a mixture of ingenuity and tenacity, the workers have transformed their claim to $10 million in unpaid wages and refusal to accept forced resignations into a national issue, by squatting on the property where they used to work." Such a thing could never exist in the U.S. for longer than it took to load up the tear gas grenade launchers.
Re:fubar (Score:1)
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:1)
> The type that got made fun of in junior high
> and could never get dates. Give them guns and
> clubs, and you get the crimes that I listed.
For someone supposedly trying to point at abuses of prejudice from the police you dish out a very aweful injustice yourself. Do you truely think those you describe could ever grow up wanting to hurt innocent people? Then you have very little grasp of reality. Those in the circumstances you describe often grow up to be very humble and honourable people with a real desire to uncover the exact same issues you are describing.
What you have said here started off well but you have proved that even wise words can come from an idiot. Think about what you're saying, some of those picked on, were picked on for standing up against the crowd, for being themselves when pressure to conform was highest, for not allowing the other picked on kids to go it alone. For helping the weakest amongst them. Being Heroes if you like. Yes, we hated them at school but look back again, they are the least of our wories in society now. In fact, you are probably still one of their nighmares.
If I were to try such amatuer psychology I'd guess that the brutal police you describe are made up of those often on the giving end in junior high.
I think you'll find its a whole mixture of things that leads to that behaviour and the last thing that causes it, is what happened when someone was 14.
History of what happened (Score:1)
Spanish opinion (Score:2)
You must see it... (A Spaniard Impression...) (Score:3)
There's more to it (Score:4)
Re:You're damn right (Score:1)
Re:Someone mod that AC up! Re:Spanish opinion (Score:1)
See, such laws will just make me hire fewer people in the first place. If I can easily fire people, I might hire 10 people when I need them, and then fire 5 when half are no longer needed. But with "worker protection" laws, I'll probably just hire 5 or 6 and make them work harder, since I don't want to take the risk of hiring and being stuck with additional people I might not need in the future.
Re:Correction: (Score:2)
Re:Someone mod that AC up! Re:Spanish opinion (Score:2)
Re:workers are people (Score:2)
Simply put, I don't care about your "protecting people" and whatnot if that involves forcing me to pay people against my will. And you'll see this in many European countries - since they can't fire people, they just don't hire as many people in the first place, or move a lot of their manufacturing to eastern europe.
Re:You're damn right (Score:2)
and i suppose the groups who claimed to have a goal of "killing every last pig" were really cops too?
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:3)
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:3)
So by your logic, since cops are evil since a few cops commit crimes, black people are very evil, because many black people commit crimes. Yay for collective labelling.
Re:You're damn right (Score:4)
Hell, even the ironically named "Indymedia" admitted this [indymedia.org].
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:1)
Could you ever? McCarthyism (sp?) was a classic example of America not putting it's money where it's preachy mouth is and being the land of the free.
[OT] Euros - was Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:1)
What are the fractional parts of a Euro called? E.g. Dollars and cents, pounds and pence, francs and centimes... euros and ????
Re:You're damn right (Score:1)
#2. The media reports things they have good evidence for. Hundreds of men report being beaten half to death by cops. Some even manage to obtain convictions. Only Rodney King had a video camera rolling while he was whipped into submission.
The good thing about the US though is that this sort of thing dose sometimes get pointed and cops have been kicked off the force or imprisoned for violating human rights. That alone makes the incidents less frequent than in Jamaica (my country) where cops kill 140 people each year on average and until Amnesty International made a stink, were almost never prosecuted.
Re:fubar (Score:1)
One of the reasons why their company went bankrupt was because their main customer, Telefonica, refused to paid their company for work that had been done. And guess what? Telefonica was at the time a government owned company.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
The US drug war is pretty damn bad, however Stalin killed a whole whole whole lot more people then we have arrested (so far), let alone killed. Directly at least. If drugs were legal a lot of current drug related and organized crime death would probably be significantly reduced.
Re:I wonder where these beggars get money (Score:2)
I don't know that they want guaranteed jobs, but they want the old ones back:
Emphasis added, otherwise a direct quote from the CNN article. I totally agree that they should receive pay for any period they worked, I don't know enough to say anything about getting their job back.
Pirated utilities. (Score:1)
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:1)
Also in this there is the government implied since they sold the company as return to the money the Miami mafia put into the election of our actual president, so I think there are enough reasons to make this a civil problem, don't you think?
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:4)
I live in Spain ans I work on a internet tech company.
1- Living here in Spain is as expensive as living in usual places in the US, but far more cheap than living in NY or in SF.
2- Most of the companies here doesn't permit siesta, that's a wonderful image created in foreign countries by people of the south of Spain, in big cities (like Madrid or Barcelona) people get 1 hour to eat, 2 hours as maximum (depending on the company policy) and in this time you cannot do siesta
3- This tech people have gone to unemployment and they have offers to go to another companies, but they are in their right to protest because the company that went to bankrupcy is owned by a country company (Telefonica), and they don't want to pay the pendent wages, that's quite miserable from the government and Telefonica (considering that telefonica is miserable per se).
4- Get off your image of Spain, come here and try to do some work, you'll get amused.
That are my 0.02 Euros =P
Re:Life imitates life imitating art imitating life (Score:1)
Golden Gate Bridge? Surely the Bay Bridge?
[FX: searches for "gibson squatters bridge"]
Seems like he put them on the Golden Gate Bridge in one book and the Bay Bridge in another. I don't think there were squatters on both in either book. Weird.
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:1)
Taking a guess that the poster is probably white isn't an ad-hominem attack, unless it's recently become somehow bad to be white in America that I didn't know about.
Thinking of the readership of slashdot, with the SES factors of income it takes to be interested in technology, have internet access, and percentages on the internet, I think it's fairly safe to guess (although I have no way of knowing that I'm right/wrong) that the poster was white. The reason I was pointing that out is that its very common for whites in the suburbs who have never seen inner city cops to act as apologists for cops because they never see the things people are so angry about when it comes to the cops.
That's what I was trying to sum up when I said that. And I don't think it's an ad hominem attack. If I tell you "you are a white man", do you think that it's an insult or an attack on your character?
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:1)
Tell me, do you think they're equivalent? I may be unfairly representing cops, that's just my admittedly heated opinion about them from the kids in my highschool that I've seen go on to become cops.
Do you truely think those you describe could ever grow up wanting to hurt innocent people? Then you have very little grasp of reality. Those in the circumstances you describe often grow up to be very humble and honourable people with a real desire to uncover the exact same issues you are describing.
Certainly there are good people who were like that earlier in life. What I'm trying to say though is that the occupation of police officer may attract good people who want to make the world a better place, but it probably also attracts people who want to have authority and power over others. Cops make split second decisions on whether people live or die, and we both know that there are people out there that this really appeals to. Those are just the people that shouldn't be cops. IMHO, those are the types of people that end up committing these crimes against the people they patrol.
What you have said here started off well but you have proved that even wise words can come from an idiot. Think about what you're saying, some of those picked on, were picked on for standing up against the crowd, for being themselves when pressure to conform was highest, for not allowing the other picked on kids to go it alone. For helping the weakest amongst them. Being Heroes if you like. Yes, we hated them at school but look back again, they are the least of our wories in society now. In fact, you are probably still one of their nighmares.
Why is it that of the entire post you pick out this one small portion of my personal opinion to attack? Did it hit a raw nerve of some sort? I was like this on highschool too, but I didn't end up becoming a cop. I wasn't one of the people who picked on those kids, so I doubt I'm still in their nightmares, but I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack me as an "idiot" for expressing personal opinion.
You're damn right (Score:2)
Yeah...not many people know that the Quebec protesters stopped getting tear gassed only when the cops RAN OUT of tear gas.
The cops in the US (and surrounding US events, like the meeting in quebec) certainly aren't as shy as the cops in other parts of the world. I mean, they do shoot unarmed black men who are running away. They do sodomize suspects in bathrooms with broken broom handles. They do shoot guys something like 40 times for pulling wallets in a dark alley. And they do beat the bejeezus out of motorists who aren't offering any resistance.
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:2)
Are you intentionally missing the point? It's not crime in general I'm talking about, that was your "collective labelling". What I'm talking about is crime committed by cops which is specifically a violation of public trust and a misuse of their authority. Not everybody can even commit the same crimes as cops can, because they supposedly have the public trust, and they definately have power in the form of nightsticks and handguns.
It's a time-honored absurd form of arguing to extend the argument to something that clearly isn't included in the discussion and then attack the false conclusion instead of the original point.
Re:You're damn right (Score:5)
Ever hear about the Quebec or Candian police doing anything like that when the US isn't involved? The meeting may have taken place in Quebec, but it was about North American free trade. The main proponent of which is the US, who also tends to deal with its citizens like that when they protest.
Of course you always have a few bad incidents, and with a watchdog media that needs to fill the insatiable news demand of america, any incident gets blown out of proportion.
Exactly how do you blow out of proportion a dude getting sodomized with a broken broom handle while in custody? Nobody needs to sensationalize that, that's just plain torture. Also, while you talk about the crimes cops commit in a very blase way as "a few bad incidents" I have to wonder how many times this sort of thing happens and it's never reported. You probably prefer the american cops to other countries because here in america they don't use nazi tactics, keep people's rights away from them and torture them. Oh but wait...they do.
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:5)
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see the logic that running away from a cop deserves the death penalty. It's all so clear now.
2) The guy who sodomized the poor guy with a broken broom handle is now serving a lengthy stretch in a state prison, so what is your point?
Uh, that he did it? Regardless of whether or not he went to jail, he did it, and cops all over America are commiting other crimes as well. I think what got that guy was the media. If it hadn't been reported nation wide, his own police unit probably could have covered it up enough. That's another thing that makes me sick about cops. Their loyalty to one another forces them to lie for one another even when they know that one of their members is in the wrong.
Cops are people, and people break laws, what is important is that they are punished when they do.
But only when they get caught, which isn't very often. And even when they do get caught, it's a citizens word against a cop's. Who is the judge listening to?
4) Last I heard, the guys that beat down Rodney King are doing a stretch in a federal prison.
Whether or not cops are in prison has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is that they are often extremely brutal motherfuckers that are often willing to do some pretty nasty things to people. Cops are often small, small human beings. The type that got made fun of in junior high and could never get dates. Give them guns and clubs, and you get the crimes that I listed. Just because somebody went to jail for them doesn't mean they're any less horrible or any less likely to occur in the future.
But then again, you're probably a middle class whiteboy who doesn't have to worry about these types of things, since you're never a target. What do you care?
Consider the source (Score:2)
For this particular story, I'd prefer a source that isn't biased as hell in favor of leftist slavemasters and against the man who fought their favorite one.
More on Cuban persecution: here [nationalreview.com] and here [nationalreview.com].
Re:Consider the source (Score:2)
Well, the links are still relevant, just not as much. The first and last two are still must-reads.
Life imitates life imitating art imitating life. (Score:3)
Re:National issue? (Score:2)
Y'know, there's a perfectly oily little Ford auto dealership near where I live, and for several weeks last year, a number of people were picketing it, apparently on strike or some such. Ordinarily, as the previous poster says, I would ignore it and carry on with my own business, but I was suddenly seized with curiosity, and stopped to talk to one of them.
"You guys have been here for some time," I said.
"Yeah, it's been a while," he replied.
"So what's the issue here?" I asked. "Why are you picketing?"
"We're not allowed to say."
"...Beg pardon?" I asked, incredulous.
"We're not allowed to say. We'll get in trouble if we do."
After probing further, I managed to "read between the lines" and discovered the dealership in question had hired non-union workers. But the idea that the pickets were prohibited from discussing their grievance struck me as Just Plain Odd. I didn't inquire as to where this edict had come from.
The world does not appear to be operating within rational parameters. Where's the reset button?
Schwab
"wouldn't last over here..." (Score:1)
don't make such B.S. claims about the freedom of assembly and such. just be glad you aren't living in China, Cuba, Iran, etc, etc.
--sam
--sam
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:1)
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Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:5)
And just *imagine* how much nicer your life would be if you could knock off for a little nap in the midafternoon. Hell, give it a try for a month -- I'll bet you'd *never* want to go back.
One of the problems with the American headspace is that "live to work" is the meme, instead of "work to live."
--
Corrupt government == "that's business" ? (Score:2)
Having no government intervention at all would be even better, but it's a long way from A to B.
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Re:You're damn wrong (Score:1)
As for what he is doing to stop police brutality in America, he is posting to Slashdot. Gee, how effective. When I see him doing something besides posting absurd deductions from specific cases to generalizations (one of the most common logic flaws, but an annoying one in a place frequented by logicians), I'll take him seriously.
But for all of his passion about police brutality on Slashdot, his home page is dedicated to GNU projects and world overpopulation. Funny, that. If he thinks the world is overpopulated, he should find the nearest cliff and jump off of it. Or maybe he should attack one of those evil American cops, since apparently they're just mad killers.
-jon
Re:You're damn right (Score:2)
By generalizing from one to many. You know, the police officers who did that were men! All men just can't wait to sodomize other men with broom handles! Or so your logic goes.
-jon
Re:fubar (Score:2)
If my company didn't pay me for two pay periods, I'd leave and not come back. Even if I couldn't find a tech job, I'd leave. Flipping burgers in McDonalds pays better than nothing. Staying around for SIX FREAKING MONTHS hoping to get paid is insane.
-jon
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
Secondly, by "cults" you are probably referring to Churches. Can you provide a citation for your quote? Can you show support for this citation's opinion from some 20's ministers organization?
-jon
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:2)
Yay! More ad hominem. =)
I maintain that he is a moron. His arguments are logically invalid. One of the premises of his screed against cops in the US is the behavior of cops in Canada. That's a moron, in my book.
Now, compare this to his claim that all US cops are bloodthirsty sociopaths. I wish he'd give his name and address, so cops can know who NOT to protect when he needs them.
"As for what he is doing to stop police brutality in America, he is posting to Slashdot. Gee, how effective. "
You'll excuse me if I point out the irony of this statement. =)
The difference is that I don't think police brutality is a serious problem in the US. Are there brutal cops? Sure. Is there something institutionally rotten about cops? Nope. I maintain that, by and large, cops are decent human beings who put their lives on the line for complete strangers.
-jon
Re:You're damn right (Score:1)
Re:You're damn right (Score:1)
That's just what's missing in the US system: proportion.
How in the hell (!) can a cop or any one else use death as a proportional reaction to some infringement of property....
This is the bad variety of capitalism!
Re:Correction: (Score:1)
The footage I saw showed a man lying down hardly moving, except for the occasional attempts to stand up. During all of this a beating was raining down on him. When you are having the sh*t kicked out of you, self-preservation kicks in. It is human instinct. Any attempt to "resist" arrest by that point was as a direct result of the "arresting" methods.
There has to be a cut-off point. Rodney King may have resisted arrest, but by the time the police had finished with him he was long past the point where he was resisting to a point that they could not cuff him. The fact is they overdid it, badly. IMHO (and somehow I think the opinion of the law as well) if they are resisting then the police can use forceful tactics UNTIL they can arrest him, not play with him like a cat plays with a mouse until they get bored.
Hmmmm..... (Score:2)
I wonder how the people whose utilities and bandwidth are getting stolen feel about this.
Such a thing could never exist in the U.S. for longer than it took to load up the tear gas grenade launchers.
It is truly amazing how people are ignorant of history. Mass non-violent action is quite common in US History going back hundreds of years.
Re:Hmmmm..... (Score:2)
Let me see - one armed rebellion occurring BEFORE the the founding of the country wipes out 200+ years of pretty much peaceful change.
NOT.
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:1)
This is, of course, bunk. Read up on the DC protests earlier this year. Take a look at all the restrictions to protesting on public grounds and then *you* tell me if people are still trurly free to protest in America's capital.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:1)
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:1)
Crime happens. White/black/yellow/red. Get over it.
Re:Correction: (Score:1)
Get this through your fucking skull: Never fucking argue with a motherfucker who has a badge and a gun and a nightstick and has the AUTHORITY to break any of those on your fucking head and you'll be alot better off.
Re:Correction: (Score:1)
Re:Correction: (Score:1)
They didn't "Beat" Rodney king senseless. he was already senseless and refused to acknowledge anything that resembles authority. What would you have done in their situation? He should be happy they didn't just shoot his ass. After 3 tasers, you bet I would. Then again,, that's probably why I'm not a cop.
Re:You're damn right (Score:1)
It was about free trade for all of North and South America and Canada is a big proponent of that, too. About 40% of Canada's economy is based on international trade, which is the highest figure of any nation in the world. The amount of trade between Canada and the US dwarfs the trade between any two other nations.
Re:Max (Score:3)
IIRC, in Max Headroom, it was mandatory for citizens to own a television, and it was illegal to own a television that had a power switch to flick off. These Spanish protesters are there voluntarily, and only have their comforts out of ingenuity.
< tofuhead >
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Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:2)
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
Hahahahahaha! Learn some history, dude.
Prohibition: Amendment 18.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution
Women's sufferage: Amendment 19.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution
Max (Score:4)
Tear gas? (Score:2)
ERTW
------
Re:New form of strike (Score:1)
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:3)
Between the hours of about 2 and 6, I cannot function while awake. It simply does not happen. I like these brief stops in my work in the afternoon, because my dorm is really quiet and, quite honestly, it's the only time I can rest (I live in the party dorm this year, and though it's pure insanity most of the time, people go out to class and work in the afternoon while I sleep).
It's complex, but it works, and it works amazingly well. I rue the time when I will have to get a job in the working world, not because of what I'll be doing (I love my work, don't get me wrong), but because I will have to change my sleeping schedule so drastically that it will be some horrible form of physical torture for me.
No, I'm not kidding. I'm that weird.
fubar (Score:4)
"The days are very long and you have to keep yourself busy," said Jose Maria Casado, who used to install cellular antennas.
One can sympathize with the protesters, but they have to understand, that's business, and over here in the US it does happen regularly (people getting laid off without pay) and shamelessly by many in the technology industry [see FuckedCompany [fuckedcompany.com]] however most people here simply move on to other jobs.
Are things that bad in Spain where they have to protest in such fashion because there are no jobs or something? Personally I would get another job and move on with life. Perhaps after I got another job I would use my own money to take them to court in an appropriate fashion as opposed to sitting around waiting for someone to listen.
Yes I know protesting for a cause is semi politically correct, but being without work isn't going to pay my bills, and I'll be damned if I forcefully made myself live in a camp town when I could do as I said, make money then take them to court. They're lucky Spain doesn't have FEMA [fema.gov] over there or that shit'd be over quickly
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:3)
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
The Chinese saw the evils of drugs (remember the Boxer Rebellion?) and faught the British who were forcing opium on them.
I felt the drug war is an excellent example of why the western world is not free, or based in liberty
We have freedom (albeit not much since we're being disarmed) but I don't have the right to go and rape. I might feel great for a moment as my thighs quiver while I penetrate that really hot cheerleader but it hurts society more than it helps me.
Just because you don't like churches doesn't mean everything they've done is evil. You don't have to toss the baby out with the bathwater. That kind of logic is popular with Demopublicans. Show some logic instead of sophistry.
Re:Morals and Freedom (Score:2)
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:3)
Re:You're damn right (Score:2)
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with law enforcement in the U.S.
Might I offer a suggestion to improve the situation?
Many people I know have much better relations with police officers once they remove those bumper stickers that say:
You know that you really suck when.... (Score:5)
Re: sig. (Score:2)
Perhaps, on the odd chance that this person CAN indeed wish an entire country out of existence, you shouldn't be correcting him.
Kinda like Kids In The Hall and the "Little God Spot".
Re:Socialism (Score:2)
========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,
Re:Socialism (Score:3)
It is high time we got over the "if it's good for GM, it's good for America" propaganda bullshit and realise that corporations need to be held accountable for the damage and destruction they have on people's lives. Corporations think that destroying the lives of thousands who loose their jobs to make a buck (Pan Am) is commonplace, but they also think nothing of mass murder (Union Carbide in India) supporting dictators (United Fruit and many others in Central and South America) and slave labor (Various Oil companies in Burma).
The attitude of "anything to make money is OK" needs to stop. If that were REALLY true, GM would sell crack, which is pound for pound more profitable than a truck. The law can and should stop corporations from hurting people, whether it be selling crack or leaving people jobless and destitute because they stole the money due to the workers.
We say that this is a country formed by the people, for the people but act as if it is just for the rich and elite. The time has come to start thinking like we, the people, count more than the corporate Power Elite and look to these people as examples.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
I know it seems odd for we to take the discussion from squaters->anarchy->drug war, but the way I responded relates to the way I perceived what I thought was an abuse of the word "anarchy". Bear with me for a second.
Specifically, the squaters may be viewed as anarchists, but IMHO, only if the western world is true to the concepts of liberty and freedom...I felt the drug war is an excellent example of why the western world is not free, or based in liberty...we are taught that we live in freedom and liberty, but, like the squaters who had their paychecks stolen, this may well be an illusion.
Your requests for further notes on the puritanism and temperence of early America, and its influence on alcohol and drug laws, can be found below:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/media/pw2.h
http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wod.html
There are also more stats on the prison figures, that other posters have requested.
BTW, I learned a lot of this from my Dad, who is 80 years old. He remembers how the mobsters fought and killed people for their alcohol turf. He despises the "Drug War" and urges all to review the stats, and free our non-violent American citizens for treatment, as I do.
It's too bad so many older people who remember the errors of the past are not given more of a voice. The drug issues is a billion dollar enterprise from a number of points of view...law enforcement, incarceration, masses of money ($100 or more for a tiny bindle of powder which costs approximately $0.25 to produce!) lost productivity due to incarceration of non-violent, treatable citizens, the violence of the illegal market.
Thanks for the reply,
S.D.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
There is no scientific evidence to support such a link. This assertion is as crazy as saying "being a christian leads to child molestations" -- certainly, you have seen the various instances of molestations by church officials in the news over the years.
Or perhaps the Ministry have had their sins washed away by the blood of the lamb of God? Yet you won't free non-violent Amercians from prison for treatment? (BTW, child molestation is a violent crime--I don't suggest child molesters should be freed!)
The boxer rebellion? Lost productivity in Britain? I don't advocate the use of drugs, I advocate treatment of drug users rather than incarceration in what is obviously a failed, corrupt venture that burns billions of dollars and kills many people -- due to the freaky women at:
www.actu.org
...who want to take away just about anything that would take your mind away from the Lord Jesus.
PS: I've read the scholars' translation of the Quelle...and think Jesus was magnificent. I also think the western pervesion of of writings is a pathetic sheep-leading joke.
Good Day!
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
(sorry)
taking away your personal freedoms for 127 years and counting.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:2)
http://www.tfy.drugsense.org/Beck1.html
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
Re:Couldn't exist in the US... (Score:4)
The US has a drug war.
The US has more people in prison, by percentage, then Stalin did in the former USSR.
The prohibition laws against drugs and alcohol were proposed by the USAs cult leaders, who complained that "one could not properly serve the lord while under the influences of these substances"
America's prison industry is the fastest growing segment of the economy.
Treatment, not tyranny.
Free America's POWs. End the drug war.
For more information, see:
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/buckley1.html
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
Re:National issue? (Score:2)
On the issue of risks, you are correct to an extent. But, that has it's limit -- look at OSHA and workers compensation.
ON finances, how much research are you supposed to do? There has been cases where courts have held that On a job interview, I asked if the company had income or if they were getting angel funding. I worked for a place that owes me over $20k in back pay, but they have no money. It's common in the .bombs. In one place, my first paycheck bounced.
liability. (Score:2)
National issue? (Score:3)
Here in the USA, many people seem take the attitude, "Get over it and work for a living or If you any good, you'd get another job.
How many times have you walked by a building with two people picketing and not paid attention to why they were picketing? It seems as though many people don't care about an issue until it effects them.
Re:You're damn right (Score:2)
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Re: (Score:2)
Re:Correction: (Score:2)
Re:You're damn right (Score:2)
I was in Quebec. I saw nary a broken window. There was no rioting. There were alot of cops gassing people - not alot of rioting.
Dont feel so sure of yourself - you dont know what your talking about. You obviously are biased against the protesters - if not you could never justify the sheer bullshit perpetrated by the cops on the 25-30,000 or so who just wanted to chant near the fences... it was a police state. It was scary the way the police were acting, assaulting innocent bystanders & people singing, sitting and chanting.
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:2)
In Spain - they probably feel that they have a right to work. A right to moderate-high levels of security and reasonable wages.
I agree. The workers create wealth. The owners do not. Workers deserve (have the right) to a balanced relationship in their treatment/conditions as the bosses.
There culture seems very healthy to me, who cares about their fucking 'economy' - the 'economy' is meant to serve the community. Not the other way around.
I wont even touch the relationship that your comment has to American Imperialism, ignorance and myopia... needless to say - it is terribly self evident that your priorities and attitude betray your 'imbalance in perspective'.
Re:You're damn right (Score:3)
Bullshit - I was in Quebec. I saw ZERO acts of violence aimed at the cops. The most I personally saw was some kids pulling ads out of their 'place' in busshelters.
I was on the other hand teargased. I saw people with broken limbs and split skin from rubber bullets. I *PERSONALLY* saw a person get clubbed by 3 cops and drug away by their hair and whatnot.
Dont give me your bullshit... the police violence *FAR* outweighted the reported violence of some people. Furthermore, I personally feel that some of the molotov throwers (and others acting this way) were in fact *COPS* themselves - you cannot justify 4500 teargas cans without some kind of violence can you. Simply tearing down a fence doenst make quite the headlines as molotovs... hence someone made sure some were thrown. Besides - even if SOME people were throwning molotoves - that does *NOT* give a police force the justification to treat non-volent people the way they were, even if they were standing right beside the thrower.
The cops in Quebec were animals.
Re:sigh, here we ago again (Score:2)
Siesta isn't lazy hours, it's sanity. Your body's natural rhythm is to slow down at around 2PM.
Yah. The problem is people eating. All the food you eat at lunchtime ends up in your intestines around 2PM.
Now, your intestines want to get all the nutrients and things out of this food. But the way the nutrients and things are transferred is by diffusion. There's little holes in your intestines' linings, and the nutrients go through them. On the inside of your intestines, there is level X, and outside, level Y. X and Y naturally try to equalise, so you need to keep the outside level (Y) low, so nutrients keep getting transferred.
To do that, when nutrients diffuse out, you need to move them away as quickly as possible. They ae moved in the blood, so you need quite a bit of it flowing around as you digest things. More than you normally use. So blood is directed from other body areas - i.e. the brain, muscles, etc - to help carrying the nutrients away from the gut. The blood being directed away to the gut means cells in the brain, muscles, etc. get less food-carrying blood flow and thus less food, which is required to perform.. well, most things.
In conclusion, after you eat, your body floods the guts with blood to make digestion work. This influx of blood comes at the expense of other organs, such as the brain. Which makes us tired.
Interesting, eh?
Michael
Hi tech indeed... (Score:2)
They must be big George Lucas fans, if they're adopting Ewok technology to fight the evil empire...
Re:You're damn right (Score:5)
Re:Correction: (Score:2)
Re:fubar (Score:3)
That's so true. In Spain people feel very lucky to get a job! There was high unemployment there during our so-called Boom in the late 90's. You can't just drop one job and go looking for another.
Re:You're damn right (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the police, I might get pissed at some specific officers, but that is an officer by officer assessment. We see in the news places like Cincinatti, where the police DO seem to have a problem, and probably need to be severely cleaned up, but many places do have decent forces. I just wish that the departments would hold the officers more accountable for what the do, and if they constantly issue citations that are struck down in court, the officer needs to come under scrutiny.
Just my two cents...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Re:Correction: (Score:2)
Apparently you, like the judge, are ignorant of the law.
The police are not there to provide punishment. If Rodney King deserved anything for his behavior, that decision is not to be made by police officers. It is to be made by a court from a menu of legally-sanctioned choices.
Once you say that a police officer is justified in selecting and carrying out punishment in the field, you might as well abandon any pretense of justice. Just use the money you're spending on courts to hire and outfit a great big pack of thugs, and set them loose on the streets to beat anyone who "deserves" it.
Re:Correction: (Score:2)
When someone resists arrest, the police are authorized to use such force as is necessary and sufficient to make the arrest. They are not authorized to then go ahead and beat the person senseless as punishment. Police are not authorized to punish under any circumstances.
Fortunately the police do not, as I've said above, have that authority.
In any case, the real advice is, don't argue unless you are going to be good at it.
Police officers have as much a knack for self-preservation as anyone else, and they can tell if you know the boundaries between your rights and theirs.
-- raju1kabir, who is a nonwhite male, and who argues with mishebaving police any chance he gets, and sports no broken bones as a result.
Re:fubar (Score:2)
Here, finding a job isn't that easy (it took my girlfriend almost a year to find a job), but the worst part of it, is that Telefonica (here, we call it "Timofonica", who is something like "cheat-fonica") owns Sintel. And... do you know who owns Telefonica?. Yes, the goberment. I don't know if you stand a chance in winnig a case against your gob' there, but here you don't have any...
So, they should get a job. Agreed, but if they want their money back...
Re:fubar (Score:2)
With a mixture of ingenuity and tenacity, the workers have transformed their claim to $10 million in unpaid wages and refusal to accept forced resignations into a national issue.
Getting royally screwed isn't just "business." Besides some people take pride when they help build something and are not simply willing to move on. Sometime standing up for principle is better than making money. Too bad that is something that doesn't count for much in America.
---
Re:I wonder where these beggars get money (Score:3)
Pardon me, Mr. or Ms. Burbilog, but if you'll read the blinking article, you'll see that the sqatters aren't "demand[ing] guaranteed jobs from government," they're asking the government to force their former employer to hand over the back pay it owes them, and to punish that US-based employer for (as they see it) screwing the workers by abandoning the Madrid company.
This is one of the problems with this particular global economy, and with the corporation as an economic unit. The corporate structure separates the owners of a business with the operations of that business, and allows for no accountability for corporate actions. The "globalization" that protesters complain about is simply a further separation of work from money, so they're in separate countries, so them that calls the shots don't even need to think about them that does the work.
We in the US need a similarly robust culture of protest against corporate injustice. It existed in the early 20th century, the era of the muckrakers, the Sherman Antitrust Act, and the labor unions (yes, I know unions have gone way off track, but the impetus to form them was real). What we need is a squat-in like in the article, not a sit-in by rich kids in some president's office at an elite ivy-choked institution, but by laid-off workers at a corporate site. Whoo hoo!
Re:You're damn wrong (Score:3)
"2) The guy who sodomized the poor guy with a broken broom handle is now serving a lengthy stretch in a state prison, so what is your point? "
Uruk replied:
"Uh, that he did it?"
Not to mention that not a single police officer that heard Volpe bragging about the incident reported it. This, to me, is more telling than the act itself. Sodomizing Louima was the act of one coward. Everyone keeping silent points to an entire system which teaches cops that such things are tolerated. I can't condemn an entire force for the actions of one, but I can sure as hell condemn them for not throwing that one to the lions. And yes, you did address this, I just wanted to elaborate a bit.
Uruk added:
"But then again, you're probably a middle class whiteboy who doesn't have to worry about these types of things, since you're never a target. What do you care?"
While the AC is clearly either naive or a troll (his "If he hadn't run, he wouldn't have gotten shot" logic is hilarious), ad hominem attacks aren't much better. I thought far more of your post before I got to the end.
My .02,
Morals and Freedom (Score:2)