IBM's Upcoming Linux Ad Campaign 171
Chris Soghoian writes: "According to a Wired News story,
IBM is going to feature Tux as part of it's 'Peace, Love & Linux' ad campaign. Apparently, the campaign is going to kick off with a 6-story Tux billboard in Times Square next week." I'm looking forward
to seeing the CG Tux TV ads.
And E-Mail???/ (Score:2)
Linux needs better hype (Score:1)
Try telling that to someone who bought linux shares.
"If leading hardware vendors are willing to risk their credibility by endorsing and placing Linux systems in the market, it's easy for customers to conclude there must be something real about Linux."
Hmm.. Great logic. Of course vendors never risk their credibility by endorsing something that's not real.
Re:Wow (Score:1)
Re:IBM should do a Linux distro! (Score:2)
Re:asdf (Score:2)
> but should ex-hippies really be the target
> audience? Are they the ones running all the
> servers nowadays?
No. They're running the mainframe. But those old salts aren't hippies, even if they're from from the same generation. Would you call Steve Wozniak a "punk"? (Save it for Steve Jobs...)
The ex-hippies are busy pestering the recalcitrant, 20-something Solaris/NT/VMS admin to install Napster, RealPlayer, CometCursor, WebShots, WinAmp, and/or DirectDraw on their so-called "workstation." The easiest method to get them to go away is to try to persuade them to install a "free UNIX" on their dilipidated Apple or Wintel junker they have at home. They seem to suspect you're trying to trick them. Linux and BSD sound to them like something British cattle get infected with. Something that doesn't come with any good games.
Mainframe guys, who probably have a history with IBM gear at some point, are their target. At our company, the AS/400s are marked for death about once a year, and they get an annual reprieve when the MSSQL on NT replacement system just can't pick up the job. Linux for IBM is a subtle way of saying to all of us in-the-know: "Upgrade your crufty old datacenter. Windows NT not required". Sounds groovy to me.
Re:I'd like to ask guys at IBM... (Score:1)
Apparently, when OS/2 went from versions 1.2 to 1.3 and later from versions 2.0 to 2.1, someone thoughtfully sent the code over to Watson (IBM main research group) and Rochester (AS400 development) Labs just prior to each release. The researchers and mainframe/mini OS tuning specialists pored over the code for a couple of months, tisked, tisked what they saw and really went to task. As anyone who experienced the improvements in performance and responsiveness could tell, they did an amazing job, but did so by applying very proprietary techniques and algorithms (developed over 30 years and 10's of millions of $$$) found on mainframes and minis.
I know that IBM has been looking at improving linux's kernel, but I understanding there is some internal debate as to what should or should not be revealed to the general public and their competition (M$, Sun, HP, SGI, et al).
Just some food for thought
Re:before you get too excited.. (Score:1)
I've contracted to IBM in the past, working at a number of their locations. I knew many people before, during, and since that period who were employees or contractors at IBM. I also know several people from some of their manufacturing plants.
Not one of them has ever hinted at a "sweatshop" as you claim, nor have I ever seen any news articles alluding to such activities. Their employees are not only well paid, but have excellant benefits, solid training programs, and far more say in how their job is done than most other places I've worked at.
In addition, IBM's support of the development community with their "Personal Developer Edition" software is far better than any other company I can think of. How many other companies will sell you a multi-thousand dollar package for the cost of media and shipping so you can use it for training? Sure it gets them more trained people in the field who know their products, but that benefit doesn't seem to be enough to convince any of the other companies to provide similar services.
IBM is a big company, and I'm sure they have their flaws, but your comments have no relevance to reality that I am aware of. If I'm incorrect, please post some links to netzine articles discussing their "sweatshops."
Re:Wonderful (Score:2)
I don't think many people will get the message behind a giant drawing of a penguin and "Peace, Love, and Linux." They should have Tux shoot Debian CD's out onto 42nd Street. OK, just have an IBM rep in a Tux suit do it.
Maybe they should have used a stronger message -- like a Zero Wing quote. Because seriously, it's not like IBM has a well-known commitment to peace and love, right? I would have gone with "Linux Opens Your World" if they wanted something warm and fuzzy.
Re:Credibility? What credibility? Sigh... (Score:3)
Don't be such a square, man.
--
Perhaps there is more (Score:1)
Also the very real need to reduce costs, likely arising from cutbacks, makes an emphases on "free" software very attractive. I suspect there is subtle psychology at play here and my kudoes go the IBM marketing for this.
The only real question that remains is -- where the hell were these people when OS/2 was around.
Re:Not again, pleeeease! (Score:1)
Re:asdf (Score:1)
Bingo. Actually, the openness will allow IBM (and its competitors) to sell more hardware, support, services, whatever you want to call it. Curiously, by lowering the bar to competition, IBM is better positioned to dominate the mainframe market. Mainframes allow you to do something big and complicated, synchronously! (Compare synchronous and asynchronous coding
Re:Fuck IBM (Score:1)
I can't see (Score:1)
Personally I think IBM Linux will make about as much head way as Corel Linux did.
Speaking of Microsoft speaking out on it. Of course they will say somthing. Maybe not to IBM directly but none-the-less they will say somthing. Especially with XP getting closer and closer to release.
~AdmrlNxn
Whistler is to Zeus as Linux is to Hercules
mailing lists (Score:1)
??? (Score:1)
Fact: Windows 2000 is unhackable in the box, out of the box, on the machine, in my backyard, in my trunk.
Fact: There is no fucking alpha version of Windows 2000. They abandon it because the Itanium was coming. So why not release a 64bit version of it on the next generation of Windows. Of course it won't be for the alpha chip. Too slow.
Fact: Dr. Pepper is a mighty fine drink
~AdmrlNxn
Whistler is to Zeus as Linux is to Hercules
Unfathomable (Score:1)
Now everyone freaks. Oh no, not IBM again. Granted they are better at hardware. It still doesn't change this kinda exposure all of you Linux fans have been hoping for.
One huge 6 story billboard of a penguin. The push is on yet you complain. Maybe this shows you how pathetic you linux fans can be. You want Linux to be a main-stream accepted standard OS but now you don't want IBM to intervene.
What? Do you want Linux to just filter to the surface? Won't happen. Linux isn't a bubble that will float to the top.
Every OS is a fucking brick. You just need to market it to bring it to the surface. For Linux this is god-sent. Embrace it. While it lasts... Once XP hits, be afraid.
~AdmrlNxn
Whistler is to Zeus as Linux is to Hercules
Comment removed (Score:5)
Re:But will their support extend across the ocean? (Score:1)
does this answer your question?
"just connect this to..."
BZZT.
Lucky Louie (Score:1)
Lou Gerstner, is that you? :)
Cheers,
Keep us posted (Score:1)
Re:SPAM????? (Score:1)
That's my guess.
--------
Re:Fad (Score:1)
You're right, it says they (well atleast the marketing droids that thought up the idea) are idiots and now would be a good time to sell any IBM shares you own.
Let's look at this from the business viewpoint rather than the zealots viewpoint...
I'm going to get an e-business solution from IBM. Let's just say it'll cost me $500,000.00 (don't laugh the IBM partner I work for only does projects worth $500,000 and above!). That might consist of $150,000 worth of software, $100,000 worth of hardware and $250,000 worth of services.
Why am I going to skimp on buying a commercial, and rock solid, operating system like AIX 4 which'll set me back $1000.00 at most????
Answer, I won't.
Whing all you want about AIX but it's second to none for reliabilty and maintainability.
For serious (i.e. large business) users linux won't even get a look in.
If it does get a look in, do a total cost of ownership calculation and work out how much out of pocket you'll be and then pick AIX.
BTW, dollar amounts above are in Autralian dollars.
What's the point??? (Score:2)
Re:So off topic it hurts (Score:1)
Re:SPAM????? (Score:1)
Re:Unfathomable (Score:1)
~AdmrlNxn
Whistler is to Zeus as Linux is to Hercules
whatever happened to... (Score:1)
Lets pull some quotes off your homepage shall we? (Score:1)
http://home.earthlink.net/~admiralnixon/geek/OSR.
"However, Windows 95 sucks! That is right, it sucks. However, it is still entirely DOS based."
entirely dos based eh?
"One system crash a day is an average."
One system crash a year would bother me.
"When released it had a counted 63,000 known bugs! "
I don't think any variant of UNIX has ever been released with that many bugs.
"System restore so you can roll back your system to an earlier date if it becomes unstable."
Some of us take stability for granted I guess.
Now, lets check out your 'expert' review of the linux OS.
"Linux - This is a touchy subject among all fans of Open Source. This is a totally free operating system. It is just totally different from Windows. Do not be expecting an easy transition."
Somehow I don't see it being a very difficult transition for me.
"It was built back in 1991 and has evolved into kernel build 2.4. It is stable in a manner of speaking. Different kernel builds mean re-compiling (meaning un-stability"
Means 'un-stability'. You must be some Linux expert to say this. Usually recompiling adds a feature or improves performance. I think you are confusing recompiling with service packs.
"that is why ID Software stopped writing for Linux)."
Last time I checked, ID is backing Loki games and Doom 3 will be released for Linux at the same time as the Mac and Windows version. Care to comment on that?
"Not to many people know how to do that, in fact 98 percent of people have no idea what compiling is."
Including you it seems. 98 percent of most people have no idea what brain surgury is like, but that doesn't stop people from learning it.
"It does not run any Win16 or Win32 apps."
Really? The WINE developers would be amused to hear that.
"It has its own API. Its main mode of support is forums where many new users get shot down by the older techno-junkies."
You sound bitter. Tried running Linux and couldn't do it I bet. With your attitude, it's no wonder they shot you down.
"It is, how do I say, complex."
Complex for you perhaps. You seem to be yet another scared windows user that can't learn something new. I feel for you.
"One upside to it is that everything is free for it. You can download it right now if you want to. Its problems lie in an unstable UI. As in, there isn't any standard UI. Seriously!"
The hell you say! Having the choice between thousands of 'UI's' or being locked into one. Which do you think is better? How does having the choice to run whatever 'UI' I want make it unstable? Some people are afraid of choice it seems. Especially those that are used to letting microsoft think for them.
"There are many programs for many different UI's. My advice, if you don't know how to set up a home network or don't know what the word compile means... stay away..."
Using your logic, I advise you to stay away. We don't need you. However, if there are any windows users out there that would like to start thinking for themselves, Please consider one of the many free UNIX variants out there.
"there are 11 bin folders and you will get totally confused."
Naw, they won't. You did though didn't ya. Your page speaks tomes. I almost feel sorry for starting this little flame war with you. You truly have no idea what you are talking about. Heed my advice from the prior post. Please go learn something. The professionals that do use this site don't need your posts. Good luck to you.
linux is a force for change (Score:1)
Will IBM never put out a decent ad campaign? (Score:1)
At least they finally ditched Avery Brooks, but the farce doesn't end there: currently, Lotus (bought by IBM a while ago) is running two ads at South Station in Boston: "Looks like a dot-com, acts like a dot-com, moneyed like a blue chip." and "Casual dress code, your birthday off, a business plan that really works." The funny part is that Lotus just laid off 168 people on February 28th. So that's why they're hiring.
Re:The way to win people over... Even me myself. (Score:2)
Note to moderators. Please try and read the post before moderating it up.
Hippies, the Next Generation (Score:2)
should ex-hippies really be the target audience? Are they the ones running all the servers nowadays?
Sure. Ever worked a gig in the Bay Area? Freaks, Deadheads, long-hairs, and flower children everywhere, and many working for high-tech firms, pardon the pun
At least that's how was. That's how it looks. Word has it that several of the coolest stoner spots have closed (White Rabbit, Steamboat, Electric Lounge, Liberty Lunch,
The moral of the story is that it may be hip to *look* like a hippy, but just don't *act* like a hippy...
Peace, Love, and _________ (Score:1)
The "60's" theme sent the wrong message, especially internally.
Ever get the impression someone giving a marketing seminar just got around to watching Austin Powers?
Re:asdf (Score:1)
They're the ones *buying* all the servers nowadays...
Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:3)
Re:IBM should do a Linux distro! (Score:2)
Also I think they blew an opportunity when they did not make perfect office into a server app (which they had hinted at). If they made perfect office a NLM and ran it from the server it would have been a major player in the corporate market.
MS understood bundling and cramming unwanted software down their customers throats but Novell never went down that road. Maybe they were stupid maybe they were just too nice.
They really should have hyped the fact the novell was significantly faster then NT at file server but you never heard a peep about that.
You're right on the money (Score:4)
"No one has ever been fired for buying IBM, Intel, or Microsoft"
IBM's reputation standing behind Linux will have a profound effect on decisions made in the board room, especially combined with other factors:
It will effectively neutralize Microsoft's eternal strategy of ignoring the IT staff and concentrating on the managers to sell their products. Here IBM will offer, in the eyes of management, a serious comptetitor to Microsoft offerings, particularly in servers.
IBM will build upon support from administrators. Should decisionmakers have to choose between to viable solutions, the preference of the IT staff may actually be taken into account
Cost, cost, cost, and cost. Given two solutions, both backed by solid and reputable companies, management will tend to gravitate towards the cost effective one.
Overall, this ad campaign will do for Linux what IBM's adoption of MS-DOS did for Microsoft.
Re:Peace love and Linux (Score:1)
That sounds like you're selling cars.
Re:I'd like to ask guys at IBM... (Score:2)
Re:before you get too excited.. (Score:1)
Online I've found at best a casual mention [getethical.com] of IBM's foreign labour practices.
On a related note, but cursory to my original post are some troublesome studies on miscarriage [igc.org] at hightech factories in Silicon Valley. (IBM is mentioned)
It's possible that the slashcode based nologo website I discovered as result of this search will have more information as it develops it's content. [nologo.org]
IBM's rpm should be a .deb clone (Score:1)
Thank about that: that's probably why I'm in favor of an IBM distro... the most popular always gets the most stuff for it. Whenever I get binaries from Sourceforge or Rpmfind it's usually the RH6 or RH7 specific stuff that available first... though not always... but you can bet IBM-distro specific packages would always be there!
As for IBM buying RH, I'd like to see them make the next version of RPM as a
Re:IBM should do a Linux distro! - No (Score:1)
A strongly standardized distro would simply stiffle inovation completly. We really don't wan't that to happen. Granted that different distros appears very different to the eye but this is OK. However all of them are using glibc2.x and that is what really matters.
IBM are allready doing their part in getting glibc2.x and other important libraries in good shape together with FSF/GNU, RedHat, SuSe
IBM has chosen a road into their Linux operation that is very 'nice' and 'peaceful' and have got some 'love' back from many Linux users. I'll bet IBM people are treated very well when meeting Linux users.
They could make fine polished versions of RedHat/Suse CD's for their customers but that hardly counts as making a distribution of their own.
//pingo
Wonderful (Score:1)
Plus, I heard that GE is about to start an ad campaign for their new refrigerator line featuring those rascally hip-hop superstars Kid-n-Play. I tell ya, these megacorps are just sooooooo cool!
Cheers,
Re:IBM and Nazi Germany - new book by Edwin Black (Score:1)
It's common knowledge that IBM provided service and leased equipment to the Nazis.
The real questions are less about whether IBM is evil than they are about worshipful attitudes toward American tycoons. Don't you think it's important that the leader of a major industry probably knowingly provided equipment for use in a mass murder? The fact that the victims were Jews is irrelevant.
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. - Some Guy
SPAM????? (Score:1)
E-Mail Advertising??? I hope that is not in the form of SPAM. The marketing of Linux is a great thing for IBM to do but I hope they dont start sending a whole bunch of SPAM out to people on there "mailing lists".
Re:Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:2)
Re:First cock (Score:1)
Re:SGI been advertising Linux too (Score:1)
What's so great? (Score:1)
what the? [mikegallay.com]
Yeah, I look forward to another TV ad! (Score:2)
Wonderful (Score:2)
Re:IBM should do a Linux distro! (Score:1)
SuperNOS would have been great - Novell could have leveraged their huge userbase onto UNIX, and would have had a compeling product to stop WinNT's tide into server rooms. As it was, later versions of NetWare were never that compelling of an upgrade, and the Unix on PC hardware was probably set back 5 years or more.
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Re:The way to win people over... Even me myself. (Score:1)
Re:Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:1)
Re:Linux? Is that the new George Foreman grill? (Score:1)
ROFLMFAO!!! And yes, I am American. Err, actualy its And Yes, I love in the U.S. Thats better
So Kernel-programmer == IBM-Volunteer? (Score:2)
Think about it: GNU is about free software. Now the people who worked HARD to make it the way it is today and free are in fact working for a big bad money hungry company. Without any reward.
--
Comment removed (Score:3)
Re:Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:2)
Sex and Linux is ok (although I imagine RMS doesn't get much these days)
Drugs and Linux get risky... might want to disable your r00t account for a while...
Then how about ... (Score:2)
Re:I'd like to ask guys at IBM... (Score:2)
Opening the source for OS/2 was discussed in the OS/2 community, and the fact is that parts of OS/2 are copyrighted by... Microsoft. IBM doesn't want to spend the money to redevelop those functions, one might surmise. Open source projects exist to do this, however, and maybe someone involved in them will speak up.
IBM is also in a corner with OS/2. Some basic structural elements like the single queue of the Workplace Shell and the fragile implementation of the INI files were arguably poor design choices, but any redesign would likely break many custom business applications built by some very large IBM customers. Faced with a partly broken system design it can't change without causing major customer grief, and having suffered a decisive humiliating defeat through Microsoft's predatory monopolistic practices, IBM is apparently cutting its losses and sunsetting further development of OS/2. (At least, one can guess this is their thinking, but I don't know.)
Stardock tried to talk IBM into releasing OS/2 to them, but that proved not to be feasible, partly due to the Microsoft owned code mentioned above.
Serenity Systems is bundling IBM's subscription based Convenience Pack upgrades with additional functions as eComStation.
Software also exists to enable running Linux software under OS/2: XFree86-OS/2, Gimp, etc.
Re:What's the point??? (Score:2)
IBM Linux commercial (Score:5)
The way to win people over... Even me myself. (Score:3)
I figure some MS folks are on this site reading this as I smile because I'm happy to see IBMs move. The people at Microsoft do not understand that to win people over(like IBM is doing) is not by fighting and buying companies out. It's giving back to the people so they will love you for it.
Things are diffirent from the way it use to be. When you got a computer back in the old days it came with DOS of all forms. Now people that pay for a PC at Bestbuy and take it home don't know that MS is doing it not for them but only for themselfs. These people don't know that... they are blind and they don't see that there are hurting other companies. That's why I think it's good that IBM is making Linux ads.
A long time a go I didn't know of Linux, I was thinking MS as the way and the only way. There are people who never heard of Linux and from it being more a *nix makes it even better. People are able to do things that they wouldn't ever be able to do with Windows and at the same time don't have to pay for half of there server and develment tools that they will get for free. When there is a day where Microsoft plays fair that's when I'll be happy to boot up there goods. Into then Linux is the place to be...Why some may ask? It's the people that's making it better, MS don't know what we want... IBM do and there are about to start flashing the light in other people eyes. Thank you IBM and all there staff for supporting the backers of Linux right along with the Linux movement.
IBM should do a Linux distro! (Score:5)
First of all, an IBM Linux distro would become sorta like the "IBM PC" in that it would be a quasi-defacto standard that everyone rallies around, but IBM doesn't really control. This already happened with the PC. The GPL would ensure it further, and IBM's emphasis on being a *hardware* company would also help ensure it's impartiality even further. I believe IBM would be a good citizen with it's own Linux distro.
Secondly, IBM's good name would help it's acceptance with the PHB's
Finally, let's face it.... there's really only one company big enough to stand up to M$'s bullying and that's Big Blue. I'm sure some of the older OS/2 engineers at IBM don't need to be reminded about M$. Without any *major* competition, M$ will just do whatever they please. A very successful IBM Linux would keep them in line. M$ also has the advantage in that it has one standard API for developers to shoot for whereas there's still a bit of fragmentation with Linux with a variety of packages and little discrepancies. I really wouldn't mind a "defacto standard" Linux distro that an IBM could provide as long as it's GPL and open standards compliant. There would still always be specialized distros like Debian and Slackware.
Have you looked at the ads? (Score:3)
Re:Link to the online IBM ad (Score:2)
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Re:Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:2)
They are the ones making the decisions... (Score:5)
They aren't running the servers but they are the ones telling the server jockeys what to run. They are the CTOs, CIOs and CEOs. They are the ones who need to be convinced that "Linux is ready for the Enterprise" and who better to do that the the behemoth from their earlier years, IBM, the Microsoft of their generation
Re:Wonderful (Score:5)
--
Mad about OS/2? (Score:2)
uh...no (Score:2)
Schizophrenic company (Score:2)
The left hemisphere supports CPRM [theregister.co.uk].
They need help.
Re:IBM Linux commercial (Score:2)
And what's the meaning of "gateway to america" in the window?
W
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Re:Hippies, the Next Generation (Score:2)
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/
Re: (Score:2)
Re:IBM should do a Linux distro! (Score:2)
I disagree about the RH buyout though - I'd rather see IBM pile cash into a company like Ximian, stick the IBM logo on the front of everything, and they'll sell like hot cakes
Re:IBM should do a Linux distro! (Score:3)
chris
Surfing the net and other cliches...
Re:Credibility? What credibility? Sigh... (Score:2)
-antipop
But will their support extend across the ocean? (Score:2)
Will televisions in the UK, France, Australia, etc. be showing the same message?
--Cycon
No IBM Distro..Bad Idea.. (Score:4)
Besides, supporting multiple distros helps IBM market the product to fans of all the various distros, to join those companies in the IBM Partner Program, and to allow software for any of those distros to be easily ported from laptops to PC Servers, to Risc Boxes, to the AS/400 to the S/390. This helps them sell expensive hardware and keep old customers by having massive amounts of software for those systems.
Licensing schemes of IBM mainframes are annual payments for each software application or tool based on the CPU size of your mainframe. Therefore, UNIX competitors have been pulling away market share by writing applications to take over sub-tasks of the large mainframe applications, hence reducing the mainframe software licensing fees significantly. For example, a PKZIP utility for our OS/390 Mainframe costs $10,000 a year to use.
--Matthew
asdf (Score:3)
strong 1960s-style psychedelic graphics -- a heart and a peace symbol along with Tux -- to appeal to ex-hippie baby boomers, whom IBM hopes will find the idea of a free, community-developed operating system appealing,
I wonder: the analogy to the 1960s may work, but should ex-hippies really be the target audience? Are they the ones running all the servers nowadays?
--------------------------------
Wait Wait Wait... I got one! (Score:2)
Re:You're right on the money (Score:2)
I'm skeptical but hopeful. I know too many people, both management and technical, that are very much into their little Microsoft world and heavily resistant to ideas that challenge their concepts of how computers work.
Especially if it's Unix. It's kind of funny how they talk about Unix like it's anal sex or something that they're afraid they might like even though they think it's disgusting. Heheheh.
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Re:Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:3)
--------------------------------
Wonderful (Score:5)
That will go a long way to getting rid of the "hippy" stereotype that comes with GNU/Linux.
Non-sorensen version (Score:2)
Re:Link to the online IBM ad (Score:2)
Re:Schizophrenic company (Score:2)
I got a short and a-bit-personalixed response shortly thereafter. I suggest people head over and let them know that this CPRM stuff is the worst thing they can do if they really want acceptance.
I think they're on to something (Score:2)
What better way to promote the latest rehash of a 30-year old operating system than an ad campaign rehashing culture from 30 years ago? :)
Cheers,
Re:Wonderful (Score:2)
Said another way...
The media/world doesn't give a shit about the goals and overall objectives that lead a man to labor year after year to ultimately bring a great system with tremendous benefit to the masses. He looks funny and speaks with a passion about deep issues, which doesn't appeal to common shallow interests, so it's ok to ignore him and ungratefully reap the fruits of his incredible efforts.
It's so much easier to (inaccrately) report what and ignore why .
Linux? Is that the new George Foreman grill? (Score:2)
Personally, I doubt I'll ever see a Linux tv commercial, but we can always hope. Either that, or they should make some kind of "Tux: The Movie". Just as long as they make him as bad ass as "Feathers McGraw" (from Wallace and Gromit fame).
Link to the online IBM ad (Score:5)
Re:Why not sex, drugs and Linux? (Score:2)
And how did you get rated +3 funny?
Re:Link to the online IBM ad (Score:2)
Re:IBM Linux commercial (Score:2)
Re:Wonderful (Score:2)
--
I've seen it before. (Score:2)
This sounds exactly like Apple.
Long haired hippy freaks >>> The Linux Pimp [thelinuxpimp.com]
Re:World appeal? (Score:2)
Re:World appeal? (Score:2)
"Pull a nova" sounds like a good catch phrase to sneak into the language.