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Corel

Corel Draw 9 for Linux Needs Beta Testers 84

Frank249 writes "Corel Draw 9 for Linux appears to be on or ahead of schedule. They are currently advertising for beta testers. This is a good sign and confirms what was reported in today's ZDNet Linux article, that the wine libraries are close to production quality."
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Corel Draw 9 for Linux Needs Beta Testers

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Draw does vector graphics, GIMP does raster (bitmap) graphics. They're entirely different animals.
  • Wine is actually two projects which happen to be very similar: 1) a windows executable runner and 2) libwine, a windows-compatible linux native library for writing linux applications.

    I believe the latter is what Corel is using and I'm not positive, but I believe libwine doesn't have very many (if any) x86 dependencies...

  • True indeed, I too think the Gimp is a better program than Photoshop, especially for the money. I think it's a real bummer that I can't use it in a production environment. Having done quite a bit of work for graphics art firms and printing firms (both digital and traditional press), I can say that the shortcomings don't stop at the printing subsytem. The Gimp also fails when it comes to import and export to deal with all the braindead Windows/Mac programs. Many times i've seen customers send in files to be printed and the EPS or Postscript is just strange enough that the Gimp doesn't even have a chance to open it up. I started telling customers to send along TIF files (huge!), but the Gimp even has trouble with these files when created with some applications. Luckily though, with the TIF format, ImageMagick almost always can rewrite the TIF file or export to PNM (which Gimp *can* deal with pretty reliably).

    Truth is, Photoshop was here a *long* time before web graphics were even relevant and it shows. I personally remember using Photoshop back in late 1991, before the web had even caught fire. The Gimp on the other hand seems to have been made with web graphics only in mind, and that too shows.

    What's the point? Point is that I personally don't want to learn, maintain and deal with single purpose applications on this particular scale. Great if Gimp is better than Photoshop (which I agree that it is), but I'd be crazy if I'm gonna maintain two applications,... one for web graphics and another one for everything else.

    And this is all before I even mention the Canon FS2710 film scanner that I have, usually sitting with the power off, due to the fact that this $800 paper weight will probably never work under Linux.

  • While I love Photoshop and Illustrator, the fact that it runs only on a M$ operating system

    Uhhh, I also use Photoshop and Illustrator, but I use them on Macintosh. I'm pretty sure MacOS is not an "M$ operating system".

  • #include's should *contain* something...
  • | Or all that great hardware with a blow chunks
    | soundcard that comes standard in low end Dell
    | configurations?

    I don't know how well this would work in practice. I've upgraded my system a, er, few times since 1994. However, up until this past November, I still used my old Soundblaster 16 purchased in 1994. And I *still* use the SCSI 7-disc 4x CD changer I bought in (I believe) early 1995.

    Depends on what you do with the machine, I guess.
  • Don't get me wrong - The GIMP is a truly kick-ass program, and it is a step towards me never having to boot into Windows NT again.

    But, alas - it does not kick Photoshop's ass. For print folks, the lack of CMYK and color management is the biggest thing that keeps The GIMP from being a Photoshop killer. Color management via device profiles is patented in the US, so I understand that they're trying to get some European developers to build color management for The GIMP. Also relating to print is the lack of the ability to create spot color channels, and the lack of a Pantone color library (which I can't imagine Pantone allowing to be bundled into The GIMP without the developers paying lots of money).

    For web developers, there are all the lovely things that ImageReady 2.0 (bundled with PS 5.5) can do - image slicing, automatic generation of code for JavaScript rollovers, the 2-up and above optimization views (so you can see what your JPEG will look like before you save as a JPEG, right next to the original graphic).

    Oh, and I sure do wish The GIMP could open my Illustrator EPS graphics. I tend to create images in Illustrator, then bring them into Photoshop or ImageReady for futzing.
  • The page linked from the article refers to it as the Graphics Suite and calls for people experienced in the use of CorelDRAW and CorelPHOTO-PAINT.
  • I downloaded the corel draw trial version for macintosh, and it's I liked it - not enough to get me away from using illustrator and photoshop, but still pretty cool.
    On windows, i primarily use the gimp for graphics these days (i forget where i got this from, but some guy ported it), but that isn't often as i hate working in windows. Hey Gimp folks, are you listening? Port to mac, port to mac! And hey quark people- port to linux, port linux! If the publishing apps were as rockin' on linux as they are on mac, i would probably forget about booting into mac os and just hang with linuxppc when i'm at home.
  • Holy crap!

    If you've got real work to do now get yourself a G4 and get on with it. Don't wait for Corel (and their mediocre content creation software). Get a Mac - the machine that the Adobe products are written for.

    Sheesh!

    Some people's kids...


  • If you read closely, you'll find that Corel isn't really offering a product for Linux -- they're offering a product for x86 Linux.

    While it's great to see companies working on commercial Linux applications, it would be nice if they understood that Linux is an operating system that runs on many different platforms, not just x86 machines.

    And, yes, I know that they're aiming for the biggest market they can find, and that they need to pay their bills, and all those arguments. But isn't Linux supposed to be about more than that?

  • Yes!

    Give me my Dreamweaver. Anyone wants to create a Dreamweaver lookalike for emacs? ;-)

    Dreamweaver is exceptionally nice package, and it would be a welcome addition to a linux applications list. Why would it sell? We deploy websites to Linux, why not create them with Linux?

    I do not see the point for Coldfusion though, there are plenty of server-side tools for Linux. Why bother? Use PHP!

    If I am not mistaken, the only graphical HTML editor for Linux is uhhh Netscape Composer.
    --
    Leonid S. Knyshov
    Network Administrator
  • While I love Photoshop and Illustrator
    These products run on SGI.
  • (sigh)

    Photoshop is more like Corel PhotoPaint. They are bitmap editting tools. They work with raster images and are resolution dependent.

    CorelDraw is a vector based illustration tool. It works with bezier curves and is resolution independent (except for when you import a bitmap into your work). It's designed to create pages for output on PostScript devices.

    CorelDraw is in the family of editors that includes Illustrator, Freehand, Flash (although Flash rasterizes to the screen), and KIllustrator.

    The Program selection box in the beta application on the Corel site lists "CorelDraw 9 for Linux". It doesn't say "Corel Graphics Suite 9", so there is no guarantee that PhotoPaint is included.


  • ...just curious

    What does CorelDRAW provide that GIMP doesn't (or couldn't)?
    ---
    This comment powered by Mozilla!
  • I am a programmer by trade, but I have done a little web work. And the company that I work for does A LOT. We have two photo editors that are testig useing Linux as their workstation OS, using Netscape, KWrite and the Gimp they have been able to do everything needed. I dont really see where Photoshop or Corel Draw X has an advantage over The Gimp.


    If you want to see the site, its www.sportingnews.com


    Later


    James Maes
    jmaes@sportingnews.com
    Unix/Database Programmer


  • Does this mean that I can use my laptop winmodem by Christmas? Oh please? Please? Please? I hope so, that is what I want for Christmas.

    Also, I hope this means that sonn I can stop running a dual-boot laptop just because they use win. apps at work.

    Yes, simple dreams are often the most difficult.

  • Why do they care what sound card you're using? Seems obvious to me. You can do a better job of correlating conflicts and possibly FIXING them if you know what's in the system your product is running on. That includes all the hardware, and if it were up to me I'd ask what drivers were in use as well.

  • Corel is a corporation, corporations don't read Slashdot. However I'm sure that a growing number of "Linux-workers" at Corel do read Slashdot, just like all the other geeks do. Patience, mon ami.

    Anyway, isn't it possible that the form is such a PITA exactly because they only want the folks _really_ interested in test-driving the beta?

    Or maybe they noticed that you've been slacking off in your Mozilla work lately, and they'd rather have you working on that crucially important piece of code instead of playing with CorelDraw all night long.


    Love,
  • > Or maybe they noticed that you've been
    > slacking off in your Mozilla work lately, > and they'd rather have you working on
    > that crucially important piece of code
    > instead of playing with CorelDraw all
    > night long.

    Take that tongue-in-cheek, please. I forgot that /. eats "enclosed grins". Didn't mean to give you palpitations. :-)


    Love,
  • > Now, I'd be most impressed if somebody from Corel showed up on the thread and asked us how the form could be better, since it's obviously widely hated.

    Hi, I'm from Corel. Well, not currently - I was a co-op there last term, and I'm going back next term. So a little biased, but:

    As I recall, the Linux OS form inspired a flood of negative comments because it still had Windows-specific information on it (like, "What version of Windows do you have?") This form is obviously Linux tailored: it asks about kernel version, X server, window manager, etc.

    Hardware is obviously a major concern for the QA department. One of the reasons to distribute the beta is to be sure it works on hardware that Corel doesn't have in house. This wouldn't be as important for an app as for the OS, but there's still always SOMETHING that can go wrong. Of all the items listed, the only one that looks like it has NOTHING to do with Corel Draw is the sound card. (And possibly CD-ROM drive.) Also, bear in mind this form will probably be used for Word Perfect Office and other Linux products which DO use these other pieces of hardware as well. Better to collect too much than too little.

    Filling this stuff in will only take a few minutes of your time - less than it takes to compile and install a typical source-distributed program from a tarball. And it makes QA's job infinitely easier. I don't really see anything that's asked for that isn't a reasonable request, and most of it is just one or two word answers.

    (Note: in case it's not clear, I'm not at Corel right now, and I don't have any behind-the-scenes knowledge of the Corel Draw beta. I read it here, same as you.)

    Joe
  • Except that the Opera browser's a pre-alpha...
  • I just filled out the application. A little long, a few things in there that probably don't need to be, but that's what I'd expect from Corel. I like the fact that mainstream apps are going linux but I have one question: WHERE THE HECK IS ADOBE???? Adobe's going to start losing market share to Corel since CorelDraw is nearly identical to Photoshop in every aspect. I'd rather stay with Adobe just because between Illistrator, Photoshop, Premier, and Acrobat they're excelling in the graphics and document corner of the market. If Adobe doesn't get moving soon CorelDraw will become the next "Photoshop for linux".
  • Yes, you are way off-base. A few years ago, MS purchased $150M of non-voting Apple stock. Because it's non-voting, they have no say in what Apple does. It was purely a financial investment (that has so far paid off handsomely) for MS.

    Not only that, but Illustrator and Photoshop are Adobe applications, not Apple applications, and they were available on the Mac long before they were available on Windows.

  • CorelDraw is closer to Illustrator in functionality than Photoshop.

    The Corel Draw Suite includes Corel Photo-Paint, which is the equivalent of Photoshop.

  • It's all about compatibility. Sometimes some pieces of hardware can make some pieces of software act 'flakey'. They probably want to be sure that they are getting a good cross section of what hardware thier potential users will have installed. When your beta testing something you need to check out all the possibilities to make sure that some bizzare configuration gets worked out BEFORE the product ships.
  • That comment was directed towards /.'ers who think that web designers are not real geeks.
  • and that's from a recent convert from PS 5
    .oO0Oo.
  • Gave it up years ago. I only do digital work these days. The Gimps scripting power is very useful.
    Horses for Crusoes I guess
    .oO0Oo.
  • wired n that ;)
    .oO0Oo.
  • I'm probably wrong, but it could be used as a lie detector test. I think a lot of people will fill in misinformation (saying they have a P2 450 instead of a p166). However, if you list a lot of great hardware, and when it comes to these smaller unimportant items you just fill in what you actually have, they can see how it weighs against other things you have filled in. For instance, how many people do you know have dual P2's, a 32mb graphics card, and a 14" monitor? Or all that great hardware with a blow chunks soundcard that comes standard in low end Dell configurations?

    It could be marketing, the above, or they just want to very accurately identify any potential problems. In any case, your still stuck with filling it out if you want to beta test their software.
  • The Corel beta Application [corel.com] seems pretty long. I hate filling out long forms, but since this is for Linux it might be worth it.

    They also don't give much information of what's involved. I assume you get all that information once you sign up.
  • Yes that's right, but I think It's better like that. When you don't Beta-test program enough you get Window$-like bugs everywhere ;) I hate bugs.
  • Man, normaly when an successful comercial app comes out for linux I'm pretty excited.... but Corel Draw????

    This app is unfortunetly an industry joke to graphic designers. But on the bright side, perhaps this will urge Adobe to hurry the hell up and release Illustrator or Macromedia to release Freehand.. *sigh*

  • Anyone who thinks that the Gimp is better than Photoshop has never had to do any real press work with it.
  • At the beginning of 1999, Corel said they'd have a Linux Corel Draw port 'by the end of the year [slashdot.org]'.

    It was on my list of promised things by the end of the year, that didn't come out then. In fact, one of the only ones that did, was the Opera Browser Beta.
  • This is the most frequently asked question of all. Wine does not and cannot support .VXD/.SYS kernel-mode device drivers (this includes all winmodems). Whine at your laptop/modem maker for Linux support - at least Lucent has put out a binary-only module for their winmodems. And work is ongoing on a "generic" Linux winmodem driver - see www.linmodems.org.
  • Well, I filled out Corel's application in it's entirety, but I'm curious.....What importance do some of these questions hold?

    Things like:

    CD-ROM Drive & Speed
    Monitor Make & Model
    Pointing Device
    Sound Card
    Network

    Some of the questions sound suspiciously like Marketing information, but that's just my opinion. I remember they had the same questions on the WordPerfect Beta application.

    Why does Corel care what Sound Card I'm using?

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • Exactly.

    CorelDRAW is vector based, while Gimp is raster based...

    A better parallel would be drawn by saying "Why would anyone buy PHOTOPAINT when Gimp is already available for free?"

    Corel has been pushing PhotoPaint as a PhotoShop competitor, and porting it to Linux makes Gimp a competitor too.

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • Adobe's going to start losing market share to Corel since CorelDraw is nearly identical to Photoshop in every aspect.

    Huh? Nearly Identical?

    About the only thing Photoshop and CorelDraw have in common is working with Graphics. Other than that, they're nothing alike. CorelDraw is closer to Illustrator in functionality than Photoshop.

    Have you ever even USED CorelDraw?

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • we went over this back in the wordperfect beta time... its a GENERIC beta test applicaion, they don't customize it beyond slapping the product name on. This was exactly the same form used for beta testers of their linux distro (wherein those questions made a LOT of sense)
  • Because if they did they would at least have made a token effort to clean up the form, after the flood of negative comments it inspired last time. This time, I just went into the site and checked out the form first before looking any further. Hasn't changed much, if at all. Sorry, I haven't got time for that. There are about 36 mandatory fields - it's just too much, and then you're only getting a chance being picked. Plus, I'm just a little reluctant to give them my telephone number. At least they didn't ask for my credit card.

    Corel's goal should be to qualify their beta testers without annoying people. They certainly haven't achieved that. Now, I'd be most impressed if somebody from Corel showed up on the thread and asked us how the form could be better, since it's obviously widely hated.
  • Native Win32 GIMP by Tor Lillqvist is hosted at: http://gimp.org/win32/ [gimp.org], current version is Dec 18, 1999.
    There (was) also a Cygwin version which uses an X Server, but it's home page has disapeared from GeoCities. The author was Craig Setera. Haven't heard of a Mac port yet. See Netlabs [netlabs.org] for an OS/2 port.

    I've been using Tor's Gimp for 'bout a year and it just keeps getting better (GTK themes even!). Adobe PhotoShop is still more refined and easier to use overall, but the playing field is much closer to level. Can't say much about Corel PhotoPaint. We have it. I use from time to time, but don't like it much.

    I use Corel Draw more than Adobe Illustrator, but that's mostly because of familiarity. CD is buggier (on windows anyway). There are a couple of libre vector drawing projects for linux begun, but I haven't had a chance to seriously check them out yet.
  • Muahahaha! KIllustrator can replace either of these and leave them totally in the dust.

    Okay, I'm kidding, KIllustrator is still in a pretty early stage, but it's an interesting project. I'm keeping an eye on it.

    Here is the product page. [uni-magdeburg.de]
  • Corel probably can't afford to completely rewrite their office suite, they're using Wine to avoid binning all their old code. And since wine is x86 specific, that means they can only deliver x86 apps. (A native x86 FreeBSD version, on the other hand, would probably be quite straightforward for them to produce. But FreeBSD can run linux binaries, so they probably won't bother)
  • This is mostly a comment to those of you following this thread that do not have a background in graphic design. There are two things that I think you should know, First Corel Draw is vector graphics program, not a bitmap program like the Gimp. What this means is that Corel Draw is for designing graphics from the ground up (Take a look at any flashy product box, most boxed software for example, that graphic was probably drawn with either Corel Draw or Abobe Illustrator). The Second important thing I think you should know is about the whole Adobe Illustrator vs. Corel Draw thing, this is the Vi vs. Emacs debate of the graphics world, they are both good products, but different.

    Isaac
  • Just wanted to say AMEN TO THAT BROTHER. While I freely admit I'm more fond of Adobe than Corel (That's what I learned on, and the curve was too high to backpeddle), I hate having to boot into Windows for Homesite.

    I can understand laying out a site in Windows, and being sure to save every 10 minutes or so (gotta love PSD layers), if all I'm doing is plugging out code, than I want Homesite. It's the only REAL reason I use Windows anymore.

    Note to Allaire: "port it, and they will come."

  • Maybe I'm waaaaaay off base here, but doesn't M$ own some of Apple???

    Not trying to be TOO nitpickity, but if you were an anal bastard like myself, you could chock another one up to Uncle Billy...

  • I'm so happy with this annoucement!

    I am *gasp* a Web designer and have been pineing for a solid OS/Design App package that ends the M$ pain.

    Soon I can uninstall windows from my workstation and liberate myself to do *real* work.

    While I love Photoshop and Illustrator, the fact that it runs only on a M$ operating system has been a major source of fustration when dealing with a deadline and having to recover from a crash.

    I'm not too fanatical about the quality of Corel's design apps in regard to interface design and stability. Yet my hope is that it will get Adobe's attention and port Photoshop and Illustrator over to Linux.
  • While I love Photoshop and Illustrator, the fact that it runs only on a M$ operating system has been a major source of fustration when dealing with a deadline and having to recover from a crash. Only on M$ operating systems? That'll be news to the Mac community.
  • by CodeShark ( 17400 ) <ellsworthpc@@@yahoo...com> on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @10:30AM (#1357864) Homepage
    ...aside from Transmeta's announcement(s):


    Corel's Belair says that one component of Wine -- its compatibility libraries used for porting applications from Windows to Linux -- are near ready for prime time, and that Corel plans to beta-test production-quality versions of those libraries within a few weeks.

    For me as a developer, this is the holy grail. When I need full speed performance, I have a full non-MFC C++ foundation class library that I use to create my Windows apps, and I haven't had the time (read: I gotta make a living too...) to port it to Linux. If I can use these libraries to port my libraries to Linux even semi-effectively, I no longer have any reason to code for the Windows GUI.

  • by thetzar ( 30126 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @10:17AM (#1357865) Homepage
    This is excellent. I'm a web designer (creative talent reads /., too!) and am in love with Corel Photo-Paint (part of the Draw package) in particular. Right now I have to run NT if I want to use it, but the fact that they're releasing it on Linux is great.

    First off, IMHO, Corel's products beat the pants off of anything Adobe makes. Foremost in the Corel arsenal is the fact that all of their interfaces are completely customizable (layout and button-wise, not skinnable). The bitmap editing tools in Corel are much more powerful than those in Adobe's stuff.

    Now that a big-name, main-stream graphics app is coming for linux, maybe I can finally switch over permanently. Now, if only I could get Homesite for Linux, too...
  • by Narcissa ( 78274 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @09:43AM (#1357866)
    It's so cold here in Ottawa, the developers must be choosing to work overtime so they can put off going out into the wind and snow.
  • I can't believe the number of clueless posters on Slashdot today who don't know what the fundamental difference between a vector illustration program and a bitmap graphics program or where one might be needed instead of the other. If Corel were to read the mindless postings of some of these clueless users, they might not even bother with the port of this and other packages. If they do read these posts I hope they read down far enough to read my post which is screaming ... Hey guys, there are real graphic artists out there who desperately need to be free of the Windows OS. Anyone who has ever attempted to do any vector illustration under Linux will tell you that this application is sorely overdue. The only promising applications that I've seen native in Linux are GYVE and Killustrator and both are a very (very) long ways off from being as functional and feature packed as CorelDraw 3 which came out about 5 years ago (which incidentally, *is* available for Linux at the over inflated price of about $500 dollars last time I checked). What would really be nice is if Adobe would get with the program as well and offer up a Photoshop version of Linux. Anyone who says that Gimp is better than Photoshop has never tried to use Gimp in a real pre-press or final-press application. There are not even Pantone matching available on the Gimp which means it's not even in the race. Hopefully Corel and Adobe will read the sensible cries from real business users and do the right thing, which is give us the Linux ports we need to be free of the Microsoft monopoly.
  • by tjwhaynes ( 114792 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @11:25AM (#1357868)

    What does CorelDRAW provide that GIMP doesn't (or couldn't)?

    CorelDraw 9 is actually a small suite of packages, including CorelDraw, Corel Photo-Paint, a font navigator, a texture explorer, a bitmap-to-vector tracing package and various image distortion tools. So, to answer your question, the functionality provided by CorelDraw 9 that the GIMP doesn't do is vector-based artwork, rather than pixmap. This is still an area of the Linux application base that is not fully up to speed yet - there are various applications which do vector-art/vector-design on Linux, such as Dia [lysator.liu.se], Sketch [online.de], KIllustrator [uni-magdeburg.de], Xfig [lbl.gov] (ancient but still useful) and it's successor GTKFig [feld.cvut.cz], GYVE [ritsumei.ac.jp] and Impress [ntlug.org] but many of these are as yet incomplete or have fallen by the wayside. That's not to say that CorelDraw 9 is necessarily the best vector art package out there - I'd like to see the latest Adobe Illustrator on Linux too - but it is a welcome filling-out of the application base.

    There are several things in the Windows package which it will be very interesting to see what Corel do with regards to porting them, or if they are simply ommitted. For example, the MS Visual Basic for Applications scripting language used for automation of CorelDraw 9 - drop or replace? - and the Digimarc Digital Watermarking software, something I'm currently unaware of anything like this on the Linux platform. Plus the usual glut of a thousand TrueType and Type1 fonts you get with any vector or DTP package these days.

    Whether Corel Photo-paint 9 holds a candle to the GIMP (I don't honestly know, since I haven't used Photopaint since v5) is vaguely irrelevent, since it is the vector art package in this lot that will probably be of most interest to most people.

    Cheers,

    Toby Haynes

  • by LordNimon ( 85072 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @10:10AM (#1357869)
    I want to post this before people waste their time wondering why someone would buy Corel Draw when Gimp is already available for free.

    Corel Draw is illustration software, and The Gimp is image manipulation software. CD is for artists to draw images - you can draw circles, lines, curves, etc, and they're all resolution independent. Gimp lets you modify a bitmap - it's heavily resolution dependent.

    Corel Draw is like Adobe Illustrator, and The Gimp is like Adobe Photoshop. Of course, CD and Illustrator do have bitmap capabilities, but nowhere near as powerful as PS or Gimp.

    The idea is to use both together.

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