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Alibaba Accused of 'Possible Espionage' At European Hub (ft.com) 38

Posted by BeauHD from the sensitive-data dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the Financial Times: Belgium's intelligence service has been monitoring Alibaba's main logistics hub in Europe for espionage following suspicions Beijing has been exploiting its growing economic presence in the west. European governments have been increasing scrutiny of the alleged security and economic risks posed by Chinese companies, which has been part of a wider reassessment of the EU's traditional openness to trade with China. In specific reference to Alibaba's logistics arm at the cargo airport in Liege, Belgium's security services told the Financial Times they were working to detect "possible espionage and/or interference activities" carried out by Chinese entities "including Alibaba".

Alibaba, which denies any wrongdoing, signed an agreement with Belgium in 2018 to open the hub in Liege, Europe's fifth-largest cargo airport, ploughing 100 million euros of investment into the ailing economy of the French-speaking Walloon region. But almost two years on from the site being opened, the Belgian State Security Service (VSSE) has continued monitoring Alibaba's operations following intelligence assessments, said people familiar with the matter. One area of scrutiny includes the introduction of software systems that collate sensitive economic information. The security service said the presence of Alibaba "constitutes a point of attention for the VSSE" because of legislation forcing Chinese companies to share their data with Chinese authorities and intelligence services. "China has the intent and capacity to use this data for non-commercial purposes," the agency said.

Concerns about potential espionage at the site were first raised before the hub was built, including in the Belgian parliament. At the time China strongly denied the "unprovoked insinuations" over exaggerated "so-called security risks of Chinese companies." The VSSE's statement to the FT indicate its concerns over espionage still remain after the opening of the hub. [...] The main concern is that this platform, alongside a couple of other logistical platforms that the Chinese have been proposing to European countries, is giving them a lot of insights into supply chains and into eventual vulnerabilities," said Jonathan Holslag, a professor at the Vrije Universiteit Brussel. According to a person familiar with Alibaba's relations to China's government, the logistics centers are expected to pass on information about local sentiment and report data about European trade and logistics to Beijing's authorities. "The site in Liege is the only European logistics center run by Alibaba's logistics spin-off Cainiao," reports the FT. The company is reportedly able to access data about merchants, products, transport details and flows. It may also be able to access information about final customers.
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Alibaba Accused of 'Possible Espionage' At European Hub More

Alibaba Accused of 'Possible Espionage' At European Hub

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  • Jack (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 05, 2023 @11:41PM (#63904797)

    The EU should arrest Jack Ma and keep him out of the public eye for around three months while he takes a "re-education course".

  • Non paylink versions of story: (Score:5, Informative)

    by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @02:08AM (#63904909)

    Fuck paywalls. Heres some non paywall alternatives.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/1... [cnn.com]

    https://securityaffairs.com/15... [securityaffairs.com]

    https://www.asiafinancial.com/... [asiafinancial.com]

  • Governments spy on each other & each others' corporations, scientists, etc.. The USA has been caught red-handed spying on EU leaders. It's pretty safe to assume that China's doing the same.

    Oh, BTW, all governments lie too.

    • Re:Governments spy. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Miles_O'Toole ( 5152533 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @06:20AM (#63905227)

      While both countries spy, there's a fundamental difference. Chinese corporations are completely at the beck and call of the Chinese government and highly integrated into it. In the US, this situation is reversed...when corporate America whistles, US federal and state governments eagerly run up wagging their tail. International trade relations are also asymmetrical. US-based corporations hoping for access to the Chinese market must put themselves completely in the power if the Chinese government. It's "do as you're told or don't bother coming". On the other hand, although there are limitations placed on some Chinese businesses operating in the US, the "drop trou or get out" mentality isn't there. In spite of all the threats, TikTok is still happily harvesting massive amounts of social data in the US, while Apple is happily surrendering it in China.

      As far as the EU is concerned, I think you've nailed it. Both the US and China feel free to capitalize on bureaucratic inertia to give them ample time to accomplish their aims there.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Except they don't. And the US just buys data from the company. There's really no difference. US and companies have many deals to trade information as Snowden revealed. So stop bullshitting and acting like there's a fundamental difference. The only difference is procedural.

        • Fuck off, troll.

        • Except they don't. And the US just buys data from the company. There's really no difference. US and companies have many deals to trade information as Snowden revealed. So stop bullshitting and acting like there's a fundamental difference. The only difference is procedural.

          Right on the spot. Government's coercion vs. plain money gain. Morals set aside.

      • So you're arguing that having undemocratic, un-elected corporations & billionaires calling the shots is better?

        • Not better, just different. If pressed, I might argue that the corporations and billionaires are less monolithic, which offers us a bit better chance of having some control over our own lives. And I'm not even sure of that.

          • It's fairly clear by now, after decades of polluting, poisoning, & forcing workers into conditions that make them sick & shorten their life spans, that corporations are far worse than govt. We may complain that govts don't do a very good job of protecting us from corporations but it's all we've got. Without some kind of democratic oversight & independent judiciary, we'd essentially be serfs once more.

            • My friend, have you looked at what's going on in China? They have all of the things you mention, plus the beginnings of a total surveillance society that is absolutely terrifying. You said it yourself: we actually do still have some small degree of oversight and judicial independence. We just have to get involved in the political process before the a-holes wind up as candidates. The mechanism is there, whether we choose to use it or not. In China, it is not.

              • You know that in terms of democratic governance & freedoms, China's more or less on a par with Egypt, right? And you know that Egypt is the 3rd largest recipient of US military & security aid (~$1.3 billion in 2020), right? And that Egypt has severe ongoing issues with human rights & abuses, right?

                So what's the difference between Egypt & China. Why is Egypt a close friend of the USA & China isn't? Do you think it's about human rights & democracy?

  • Yes! (Score:4, Funny)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:59AM (#63905147)

    I heard they stole all the zip-codes.

  • "security services [...] were working to detect "possible espionage and/or interference activities"" isn't this the job of security services, to work to detect possible espionage from anyone at any time? Other than that, we see only suspicions, not any accusation.

    And when a company opens a large logistics center, isn't expected from them to gather "a lot of insights into supply chains and into eventual vulnerabilities"? Otherwise how can they do their job? You can't to logistics without "data about merchant

  • Chinese companies are basically extensions of the state.

    That said, before we get too complacent ... you may have heard about the Biden administration meeting weekly with big social media companies, telling them which posts they need to take down, etc.

    It's easy to let companies become extensions of the state if you don't have (or keep) an ethos against it.

    • Biden never made anyone pull a post. People on slashdot told me so.

      • Biden never made anyone pull a post. People on slashdot told me so.

        Let's check that notorious right wing rag, er, NBC [nbcnews.com]:

        The 5th Circuit agreed with the Republican state attorneys general of Missouri and Louisiana, who had alleged that numerous federal officials coerced social-media platforms into censoring content in violation of the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment’s free speech protections.

    • Chinese companies are basically extensions of the state.

      You and others say that like it's some kind of secret that the US has recently discovered.

      Add this too: they and many other nations don't give a fuck about copyright and other IP. Many view it as a system imposed on them by colonial powers who, having grown wealthy on the resources they extracted, now expect those nations to respect the advances they made as a result of that wealth.

      Fuck that for a game of soldiers, Bible thumpers!

  • In the 80s, the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure, General Directorate for External Security in English) spied on US tech giants such as IBM or Texas Instruments. So yeah, I'm not surprised that any foreign company will try to exploit the knowledge of its competitors, this has always been done and will still continue forever.

    (Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org])

  • Paying YOU $35,000 to buy their electric cars!
    Wasn't this the big problem with electric cars - they were too expensive?
    Well here is your solution and you're bitching about it, unfair business practices that just happen to immensely fight climate change. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/1... [nytimes.com]

  • Alibaba and the... (Score:3)

    by Hoi Polloi ( 522990 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @10:00AM (#63905701) Journal

    They have 40 thieves under arrest.

  • ... “If you open a window for fresh air, you have to expect some flies to blow in.”

    I would be surprised if the Chinese would NOT use any opportunity to spy.

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