Apple Reaches 12% Market Share In U.S. Notebooks

bonch writes "Apple's U.S. notebook market share has doubled to 12% after shipping 1.33 million Macs in the quarter. Apple also shipped 8.11 million iPods, topping analyst estimates, for a net income of $472 million. Remember when Apple was dying?" From the article: "The iPod shipments appeared to calm investors worried that growth in that red-hot business was slowing and Apple's results topped what analysts had said was a conservative forecast. Shares of Apple were down some 24 percent since early May. 'Apple looked good,' said Jane Snorek, technology analyst with First American Funds. 'The PC numbers were great, too.'"

Stock

[elzurawka]

From TFA:
"Based on Tuesday's closing prices, Apple shares this year had declined 26 percent, compared with a 12 percent decline in the Morgan Stanley High Technology Index , of which Apple is a component. Apple stock more than doubled in 2005, after tripling in 2004, largely on booming sales of the iPod."

That a sharp drop in share prices after 2 years of huge growth. Altho their revenu and profits are good, why is their share price going down?
I think its the fact that people realize:
a) You can only sell so many ipods, as more products come out, and more people already have them, they will sell less and less ipods
b) Intel Macs are over prices, and i belive that sales will slow once the "newness" passes.

Profits are good, but when your stock starts to fall after 2 years of going up sharply, that has to be a sign of something t come?

Shipped?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is great news for Apple and all, and I want to see their market share increase as much as the next guy, but this estimate of marketshare is based on units *shipped*. Doesn't Sony use the same kind of logic when talking about PSP market share? Shouldn't we be looking at units *sold*?

Good Products = Success

[jgerry]

Apple does a great job of making products people want to buy.

With the iPods, they seem to be unstoppable. No matter what other companies offer, people want the iPod + iTunes more. With laptops, they make a sexier product than almost anyone else. Even the die-hard Windows folks I know are buying Apple laptops, running OS X + Windows via BootCamp [apple.com] or via Parallels [parallels.com].

To top it off, they do all this with higher profit margins than any other company. It's no surprise that their market share, and their stock, are both on the rise.

Re:Shipped?

[kyouteki]

Apple keeps low stocks in their retail outlets and does a good deal of their business online, so I would imagine that the shipped numbers are closer to sold numbers than they are for most other consumer products.

I know the parent's joking, but...

[Doches]

If you think about it, Apple's laptops really are the top 12%. I've gone through two laptops in twice as many years, and having worked on/with a ridiculous variety of brands & models, I've finally come to realize that all laptops are crap. Not only that, all laptop manufacturers are crap, too.

Except, of course, Apple, and possibly IBM/Lenovo. Apple makes decent machines, only slightly overpriced, and when they break (as practically every laptop I've ever encountered has done within two years of use, some spectacularly so) Apple has a history of going to great lengths to fix their mistakes. Remember the iBooks with faulty motherboards? How many of those did Apple replace with newer models (models with double the RAM and disk space)?

They have their faults, and their mistakes, but by-and-large I'd say Apple is one of the few laptop manufacturers whom I'd trust well enough to buy from.

Oh, and those spectacular failures?

• A Sony Vaio that spontaneously burst into smoke during class.
• HP Pavilion sold as having 256mb of memory, when it clearly had a mere 128.
• A Toshiba that would only charge while upside-down. Seriously.
• An Acer Ferrari 3200 that killed two hard drives before going on to melt its power adapter. This one was mine -- that really hurt.

Re:Stock

[p0tat03]

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a Mac fan, so much so that I work for Apple (though I am not involved in any way with the notebooks)

The whole notion of Mac overpriced-ness used to be a real issue, and at the higher-ends of Apple's products still is. Performance-wise the MacBook Pro still offers precious little for what some el-cheapo notebook mfg's are doing for the same price. But have yhou taken a look at the MacBook lately?

Let's step back and evaluate what the average user wants. Tech geeks like us may care about whether we're getting an ATI Mobile X1600 vs. an Intel GMA950, because we actually use that bit of performance, but the vast majority of users do not. Throw the average emailing, IM-ing, music-listening user in front of a MacBook Pro vs. a MacBook vs. the fastest Windows laptop in the west and they can't tell the difference in performance.

What they CAN tell is that:

A) The MacBook has a nifty little camera! Beats clipping a monstrosity haphazardly to the top of your LCD (yes I am aware some PC laptops have it, but the majority of casual user-level laptops still do not)

B) It's so small and simple! I have a Toshiba laptop at home, and even though it technically is about the same size as a MacBook Pro, it doesn't feel that way. When I handle a MacBook Pro, it feels smaller, it feels lighter, it feels overall easier to work with. Why? Because it's a fucking rectangle, whereas my Toshiba has plastic flap, hinges, plugs, trims, and other needless protrusions that make it look like a bad prop from a B-sci-fi movie.

C) It's not tacky. Some manufacturers have taken this hint. I'm rather a fan of Dell's new case designs, but a lot of manufacturers (Toshiba, I'm looking at you... or hell, the high-end Dells still have a lesson to learn) are still working under the whole tackiness routine. No, we don't need any fricking chrome trim. No, we don't need an LED on the front showing me EVERY POSSIBLE THING THE MACHINE IS DOING, etc etc. A lot of users are just dying for something simple, and Mac gives you that.

D) The hardware simply works better. To remove the battery from a MacBook I just turn this little knob, and the battery pops out. To remove said battery from my Toshiba I have to flip this little plastic switch on the bottom (which feels very flimsy btw), and then pull this other switch thingy to release the clamp, and ALSO I have to pull on the battery at the same time. Is it especially difficult? No, but the Mac experience is infinitely better. It's the little things about the hardware that counts: I can check my battery life without turning on the machine, there's no lid latch to break, there's no power cord to kill your motherboard with (it does happen a LOT, I know many people who ripped the power connector assembly right from the mobo just by tripping over the power cord), I don't have to pay an arm and leg to get bluetooth... need I continue?

E) MacOS. The average schmoe is sick and tired of being thrown jargon by Windows. They cope with it, but feel more at home in the more intuitive aspects of OSX. Everything works out of the box, and the UI is never cluttered with inane BS (Windows Media Player, step up). For a personal average user, he/she does not have to install ANYTHING to do the things he/she does everyday (except the office suite, which doesn't come with a Mac). Dialogs are verbed and more understandable, each button's purpose and actions are clearly communicated (do you really know what the "OK" button does in Windows?), so it's all quite simple to understand in comparison to Windows' bloated interface. Hell, I know average non-techies who figured out how to change their resolution in MacOS, when they didn't have a clue how to do it in Windows.

Users are not interested in paying for hardware, then software, then more software. The average user wants a full solution that works right from the get-go. They want to use hardware that they barely have to learn, and OS that looks as good as it runs (WinXP's default theme gives me nightmares), and the hip factor helps too ;) Once you roll the "experience" factor in, I would say most Macs are in fact not overpriced. (no defence for the MacBook Pros, they are still quite expensive)

Re:Good

[avalys]

Its vaunted security comes at the price of ease of use, and I think we'll be seeing a lot of people wondering why they can't do on their Mac what they could do on their Dell...

Could you provide an example of something, here? Because this really makes no sense. Give an example of something people can do on a Dell that they can't on a Mac, that is unavailable because of security restrictions in Mac OS (as opposed to the appropriate application simply not being ported yet).

What ease of use has OS X given up for security? I can't think of anything. Have you ever used Mac OS, or are you just saying that because you think it sounds plausible?

Re:Stock

[dafz1]

Apple's stock price seems to be more volatile than Dell, HP/Compaq, etc. Every five minutes there's some "expert" saying Apple is "dying", "going to be sold to ____(Sun, M$, Chucky Cheese, etc.)", "has a virus...no wait, we mean trojan(it doesn't work yet...and you need to enter your password when it does)" and traders freak. Right now, Apple's in limbo with the anticipated switch in the Pro machines to Woodcrest chips, as well as M$'s "ipod-killer", and Apple's supposed inability to get a Video iPod, which hasn't even been announced yet, on shelves by the "important Back-to-School season".

As we've seen with crude oil prices, there is a lot of "feeling" in stock prices that isn't directly tied to real company value/profits.

Re:Good

[Yvan256]

Right now I see people on just about every tech site that will tear into Microsoft for packaging a browser with Windows, but praise Apple for packaging an OS with every PC, and dozens of applications with every OS. If Apple takes a large chunk of the market, we're going to have to hold them to the same standard we do Microsoft, meaning that we should be demanding an end to their anticompetitive practices of bundling their own software.

Last time I checked, Microsoft was convicted of being an illegal monopoly, Apple wasn't. Different rules apply to each category.

Re:Good

[timchampion]

The difference here being that Microsoft Internet explorer is an integrated part of Windows, and is inseparable from the operating system, while Safari (if you want to compare apples to apples) is "just another app" within OS X. As far as I know, you can remove Safari from OS X with no adverse affects on the operating system as a whole.

If you want to talk about bundling the OS with the hardware, there's a big difference there, in that Apple makes both the hardware and the software (I know that Apple doesn't actually manufacture CPU's etc, but they sell an assembled product with the Apple name on it), and Microsoft is not in the hardware business - for the most part (I say as I'm typing on a Microsoft branded keyboard).

Anyway, with bundling the OS with the hardware is the Microsoft is throwing their weight around and blackmailing PC manufacturers to bundle EVERY computer they sell with Microsoft's operating system, where Apple is not involved is such blackmail with other hardware manufacturers.

Keyword == RETAIL

[Shivetya]

Retail does NOT include corporate or contract sales.

12% of Retail sales is impressive, but Apple also had the advantage of all new products.

Lets see what it looks like this time next year.

Re:Good

[TheGreek]

As far as I know, you can remove Safari from OS X with no adverse affects on the operating system as a whole.

Ah, but can you remove WebKit without any adverse affects?

Re:Defective hardware

[cayenne8]

"problems arising from cheap parts and sweatshop factories in 3rd-world Chinese sweatshops are so widespread."

You know...I feel bad for those in those conditions, but, if it weren't Apple they were working for, it would be for someone else. The 'sweat' isn't going to go away...if no one employed them...they'd have no money coming in and NO jobs...

Would that actually be better? If we all just stopped buying products that were made it places like this...I doubt that would spawn better working conditions...actually probably worse, since they would have no source of income...

Re:Stock

[badasscat]

I think consumers are waiting out the iPod upgrade cycle and that has an impact. The market is fairly saturated as you note and there has not been a real upgrade in something like 18 months.

If they ever get a true 6G iPod out the door (and not the 5.5G that is being talked about) I think the market will respond favorably as there is a lot of pent up demand.

Did you read the article? iPod sales are up 32 percent year over year with sales of 8.1 million for the quarter. If there's "pent-up demand" there, then I can't wait to see what happens when the 6G actually is released.

The moral of the story is people keep buying iPods, and the pace continues to accelerate. There is no slowdown, despite what everybody seems to predict every single quarter. I think it's time people finally realize there really is no meaningful competition for Apple in music players and there never will be. (And yes, I've heard of the Zune.) It's going to take a paradigm shift in the way people listen to music to dislodge the iPod, but the current war is already won.

Re:Good Products = Success

[b17bmbr]

the stock market, since the 1990's at last, has been more about stock supply/demand rather than actually company performance. for far too long stocks were manipulated by companies who used them in 401k packages, stock options, etc. this is a problem with the market and the rules (SEC) and the nature of the stock market today. too many day traders amd individual investors are entering the market and since companies are not required to disperse dividends as they once were, stocks are now a modern form of keno rather than actual investment in a company.

Re:Question about Apple Laptops

[WhiteWolf666]

Linux for the Macbook is fairly easy if you are distribution agnostic.

It is drop dead easy if you use the Mactel-Linux Ubuntu Live CD.

I haven't had many problems using OpenSuSE 10.1, but I did have to recompile my kernel at one point.

The FGLRX drivers finally work properly. They aren't as fast as their Windows or OS X counterparts, but they are fairly easy to install and get the job done. I expect significant performance improvements in the future. The X1600 256 MB (which is the Macbook Pro) graphics isn't bad at all.

The standard MacBooks come with Intel's Extreme Graphics, which suck; however, the Linux drivers are opensource and directly built into X.org (installation is drop dead easy).

Why would you consider a Dell? Get a MacBook Pro, install Linux, Windows, and OS X. It's fast, light, and easy to use. Plus, it looks good.

Re:Good

[MoneyT]

Right now I see people on just about every tech site that will tear into Microsoft for packaging a browser with Windows, but praise Apple for packaging an OS with every PC, and dozens of applications with every OS. If Apple takes a large chunk of the market, we're going to have to hold them to the same standard we do Microsoft, meaning that we should be demanding an end to their anticompetitive practices of bundling their own software.

I never understood this. What is wrong with bundling software? Here's a hint for you, if windows didn't come with IE or [Other Bundled Browser] people would find it awfuly hard to go dowload the latest version of firefox. Budling software is not wrong, evil or bad. Making the bundled software hard or impossible to remove IS. And please note there is a distiction between the bundled software, and the actual back end technologies (i.e. Safari != WebKit)

Re:Stock

[ceoyoyo]

Nice collection of myths!

There must be an awful lot of Mac fans considering they shipped more than 4.5 million of them this quarter (and it's not a new model).

As anybody who actually goes and runs the numbers finds out, Macs are similar to Dell pricing. Sometimes a little more expensive, often a bit cheaper. Apple simply doesn't sell a bargain basement junk model that Dell will sell you if you want. Most other PC retailers are more expensive than Dell.

Macs tend to stay in operation longer than Windows machines. Macs have higher resale value than Windows machines. Doesn't sound like the entire Mac community is dumping their computers and upgrading at the drop of a hat, does it? Sure, there are some. Those would be the equivalent of the people who buy the highest end Alienware PCs.

Re:Defective hardware

[mrxak]

Well, I don't know about racism. While some may have racist reasons for protectionism, I don't think the majority do. I tend to think these kinds of things are more based on a shortsightedness of the situation. Sure, jobs may go overseas, but at the same time, your cost of living has decreased because you can now get Product X cheaper. And if you really wanted that job so badly, why weren't you willing to be paid less to do it (of course that's a whole 'nother issue)? Not only that, but let the living standards increase in other countries, and they'll be able to afford to buy all of our luxuries Made in the USA. And if somebody can do it better than us, well then we'll just have all the more reason to apply some American creativity to do it cheaper, better, or faster. Protectionism is actually sort of the reverse of racism, because if you support protectionism, you're actually saying that your country is weak and useless without help.

Re:Good

[Lally Singh]

He can't, because he's talking out of his ass. It's amazing how many PC users can't understand what good engineering really is. They can understand that an OS can be powerful because of Linux, or it can be easy to use because of Windows. The dichotomy of OSs to run makes them think that power & usability also form a dichotomy.

They can't get how an OS can be easier to use than Windows and still at least as powerful as Linux (I'll argue moreso, because you don't spend 2 weeks setting up your OS for your hardware (wireless cards, 3D cards, I'm looking at you)). Or that having to know how to deal with mundane setup & maintenence tasks on computers is a fault of the _OS_ vendor. Computers are supposed to simplify our lives, not give us more shit to worry about.

Seriously, why can't people understand this? Why can't they understand that whatever 'overpricedness' they feel macs have doesn't matter compared to the hours & days they save not putting up with the bullshit of Windows & Linux? Yes, I said & Linux.

Hell, most Linux users still bitch about which 20 year old text editor's better: vi or emacs. Here's a hint: neither, they're both antiquidated pieces of shit. Mice are useful, _especially_ when text editing. They're response: write your own! Linux comes with dev tools and the shitty apps are open source! My response: fuck you! I've got real work to do, and I'm not wasting my time fixing brain-dead software that 'scratched the itch' of some jackass who jerks off on Lisp macros.

People, including me, love macs because they leave you the fuck alone and let you get your work done. You don't have to make sacrifices. How hard is this for people to understand? It's my fault, really. Lots of people come to slashdot to jerk off on how much computer knowledge they have, and the idea that a computer doesn't need them to be experts destroys their purpose in life. I guess I should understand that.

Re:Good

[soft_guy]

There's a difference between being it being LEGAL to do something and it being RIGHT to do something.

When someone goes to court and testifies that Apple intentionally made tweaks to their OS specifically to break Adobe Photoshop so they can sell more copies of Aperature, then we'll talk.

I'm referring to the "DOS isn't done until 1..2..3 won't run." saying that came out during the Microsoft anti-trust trial.

Also, when Apple steals some else's code to put in their own product we'll talk.

I'm referring to the incident where a consultant who had access to QuickTime For Windows was caught giving that source code to Microsoft where it ended up as part of their "Video for Windows" product. The related lawsuit was only dropped when Microsoft threatened to cancel Office for Mac.

I can't think of any incident where Apple has mis-treated third party vendors. The closest one I can think of is the guy who created Frontier(I think I'm remebering it right) which was a thing that was similar to AppleScript in some ways. He released it right before Apple introduced AppleScript which of course killed his potential market and he crief foul. The thing was that obviously Apple had spent years on AppleScript and it was a superior solution to Frontier, so despite his claim I don't think they stole his idea. It was just bad timing (for him).

Even when they were starting iTunes, Apple approached the various small 3rd party vendors who were doing stuff with MP3 and offered to buy them and given them jobs at Apple. The ones who didn't accept the offer got steamrolled by iTunes, but how is that Apple's fault?

Re:Stock

[Anonymous Coward]

"The average user wants a full solution that works right from the get-go."

- Umm...yeah. Don't blame Microsoft. Everytime Microsoft tries to do this, someone sues them for Monopolizing.

Re:Stock

[vux984]

Once you roll the "experience" factor in, I would say most Macs are in fact not overpriced. (no defence for the MacBook Pros, they are still quite expensive)

The real issue with Mac Pricing, is the "premium" on the premium versions. Frankly I think the base MacBook and MacBook pro aren't too badly priced. But the jumps for the models up, and lack of customization is baffling.

e.g. I'd like a base macbook with a superdrive, except that I can't. Superdrive is not an option on the base. So I have to move up to the middle model. $200 bucks to move from a combo drive to a superdrive? (Sure it comes with a slight cpu bump, but I don't care about that.)

and the next model up from that? Another $200 for what? 20 mor GB of HD! Ridiculous!! (Oh and its black plastic)

Worse, I'd like to potentially run parallels on it, and would like to start with 1GB of ram on one chip, so that I can upgrade to 2GB down the road easily. Nope can't do it. I have to shell out $500 bucks for 2GB RAM. (Which is itself ridiculous for RAM)

Why isn't 1GB of RAM on one chip an option? (It is with the MacBook Pros, using the same CPUs!!)

Ditto the HD upgrades... $250 for 120GB to upgrade from a $60. That is again, ridiculous. You can get a 60 for ~110, and 120 for around ~200. So the upgrade should cost around ~100, why am I being asked to fork out $250?

The base model at 1100 is pretty decent, but to put in the big HD, 2GB of ram, and a superdrive will run another:

$500 to upgrade to 2GB RAM
$250 to upgrade to 120GB HD
$2oo to upgrade to model with Superdrive
----
$950 bucks

That's easily double what those upgrades are worth.

Re:Stock

[Firehed]

Probably, but having been a long-time Windows user, I can conclude without any shadow of a doubt that he's 100% correct. I'm in the process of making the switch, and I'm much better off for doing so. The only reasons I haven't switched completely is that a) Samsung doesn't have OSX drivers for my printer (and as it's a discontinued model, it's not going to happen) and b) I've sunk probably $4000 into my PC in hardware and watercooling, not to mention countless hours of backbreaking labor in modding the thing to death. And I want a new printer anyways.

Except for that damned printer, I just plug stuff in and it works, and the software is logical and everything that I'd need as a typical user, save the office suite, was preinstalled (and I was able to find MAMP and a syntax-highlighting text editor in about ten minutes for my web design work). And unlike the preinstalled shitware you'll find on most Windows machines, the couple pieces of non-Apple designed software included are surprisingly useful, if only to play around with (Comic Life is quite a bit of fun, and I actually managed to use it for a school project). I'm rather sick of overly-protected software installs that go to some random place in the start menu and have three-deep folders full of random crap that I'll never touch. Double-click or drag to applications, and I'm done, and that's the only thing I see or ever need to worry about.

Re:Stock

[Anonymous Coward]

He specifically said the MacBook, not the MacBook Pro. The MacBooks start at about $1100, with Core Duo processors.

Also, I made the price of the Dell a hundred bucks higher than you and was still unable to match all features of the MacBook Pro. Dell wouldn't accept both a remote control and XP Pro. The Dell still lacks a built-in camera, an equivalent to iLife, the MagSafe power adapter, gigabit ethernet (the Dell only has 10/100), optical digital audio input/output, and a backlit keyboard (important for those of us that travel a lot). The Dell is 3.5cm vs. 2.5 and weighs more. Apart from the RAM deal, the MacBook Pro still looks like a good deal to me, not even taking into account the build and design (Apple aluminium vs. Dell plastic)...

Re:Defective hardware

[drinkypoo]

They're still in poverty, sure, but they're better off than they were before whatever big corporation came in there.

Well, in the case of Mexico, we actively work to fuck up their politics so that they never recover, and we can keep exploiting them.

But the most significant aspect in many cases is pollution. A big part of the cost savings is that these companies can go someplace they can pollute all they want. When the country becomes more wealthy and the laws change, they pull out, sell most of their equipment for scrap and ship it out of the country so no one can use it, and leave behind a big dirty smoking hole full of pollutants.

stop the madness

[John Nowak]

That Dell has an X1600? And OS X? And all the niceties of Apple's design? And the same quality display? And keyboard? And I'd like it just as much? And it'll hold its value just as well for when I want to sell it in two years? And it has the same quality support? And I can just take it down to the local Dell store two blocks away if it breaks (yeah right)?

What is the point of all these comparisons? There are so many variables that such things are completely useless. You don't compare a BMW and a Chevy on horsepower, torque, size, and weight alone. I'm not making any value judgments here -- the Dell can be the BMW for all I care -- But my point is there are dozens of issues to make comparisons on, not just the four or five biggest numbers.

What's missing from the Dell

[Vandil X]

Missing Software:

• No iLife. That alone is worth $79, and no consumer-level app available for Windows comes close.
  
• No true Speech Recognition. Gonna have to buy a third party application for that.
  
• No Save anything as PDF option. Time to buy Acrobat or a a free OSS program with a horrible UI.
  
• No native DVD burning application. Gonna have to buy Easy Media Creator or Nero just to burn a Data DVD (or a free OSS program with a horrible UI).

Maintenance:

• The Dell will require A/V software & DAT subscription. Even if you use a free A/V client, you'll still have the resultant performance drag.
  
• The Dell will be preloaded with Trials and Spyware that will never fully uninstall. However much you feel your free time is worth per hour, multiply that hourly rate by the amount of time it will take you to remove the preloaded crap and spyware and running frequent anti-spyware scans.
  
• The Dell will need to be patched religiously. Another $$$ for personal time lost.
  

The above easily makes up the price difference.

Re:Stock

[gig]

Gigabit Ethernet and optical digital audio in and out are commonplace on the Macs of the past few years. I work in two different studios and both have Gigabit networks. My PowerBook G4 from 2001 has Gigabit Ethernet. In the Mac market, making and moving 100+ GB files is an every day all day thing for many years now.

The audio ins and outs that Apple uses on its computers and on things like the AirPort Express base station are combination analog/digital jacks. Apple standardized on these a while back so that they could give the user both analog and digital audio in and out in two small jacks. It is a great solution for the whole platform because third-party music and audio gear can do a lot with a stock Mac without requiring the user to jump through hoops. Podcasting is just one example of an application that makes good audio in and out much more valuable to the average home or business user outside of a music and audio context. Recording vinyl LP's into iTunes is another application where many users will appreciate their MacBook's excellent sound capabilities.

Apple makes sure the user has a complete set of tools so that no matter who they are or what they do they can INCREASE their capabilities. People always do stuff with their Macs that they didn't think they were going to do when they bought them.