Microsoft to Support ODF via Plug-In

Apache4857 writes "It appears that Microsoft has finally caved. BetaNews is reporting that Microsoft is sponsoring an open source project to enable conversion between Open XML in Office 2007 and OpenDocument formats. The project, hosted on Sourceforge.net, made its initial release today. The Word 2007 conversion utility is expected to ship ship by the end of 2006, and similarly conversion utilities for Excel and PowerPoint are expected early next year." See the announcement in Brian Jones' blog (Jones is the Microsoft program manager responsible for Office file formats).

Just one day after...

[Burz]

...SoftMaker's Dr. Martin Sommer states [slashdot.org] that an ODF plugin for MS Office would hinder acceptance of alternative office suites. Then all of a sudden, MS is throwing in their support for an independant project that had started a few weeks earlier.

Not as convenient as native support

[Raphael]

This add-in is certainly a step in the right direction. But opening and saving files with this add-in is not as convenient as if the format was supported natively.

Here is an example of the problems that the users will face when using it (from the project home page [sourceforge.net]):

Important note: The ODF file opened by the add-in is converted into Office OpenXML (Office 2007 new file format) and imported into Word as a read-only file. If you want to save it as ODF, you have to use the "Export as ODF" button and provide a new file name (that can be the same as the current file name).

Basically, this add-in will encourage you to convert your ODF documents to OpenXML, but if you really insist and if you really want to save (sorry, export) as ODF, then it will let you do that as well. You will just have to re-type or re-select the file name.

Re:Or so they SAY it'll do that... some day.

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

The strangest aspect to me is the Open Document Foundation says they have a similar plug-in, but are very secretive about it and won't really give any details. Then MS just tosses on up on SourceForge for all to see. A bit of a role-reversal, but good for MS!

Re:What about existing versions of Office?

[KarmaMB84]

If OpenXML is standardized like Microsoft wants, and there is still no accessibility capable ODF products available, MS Office could end up winning by default anywhere with accessibility laws on the books. That is exactly the reason governments are asking for ODF support. They want to use the ODF format, but want to use Microsoft Office to satisfy their legal obligations. They could end up using OpenXML and MS Office if OpenXML becomes a standard.

Top Execs Leave?

[neonprimetime]

Is it just a coincidence that MSFT joins the Open Source community and adopts ODF after some of their top [slashdot.org] execs [slashdot.org] say they're leaving? Perhaps there was a movement within that these top execs didn't like?

Clarifications

[The MAZZTer]

It's a plugin for Word, it's not a separate conversion utility as the article implies.

It can't handle manual page breaks it seems. Once I get OpenOffice.org on here to verify, I'm submitting their first bug report. :)

The default install directory seems to indicate this is a third-party tool, not an MS tool.

It doesn't add file types to the default Open/Save dialogs (the ideal solution). Instead, you import and export the files with their own dialogs. This also means hitting File/Save when you have an ODF file open will open up a save as dialog fro DOCX only.

Re:Embrace and Extend

[Vo0k]

Try writing equations that take up half a page in MS Word. Example with a simple one: z=sqrt(x^2+y^2)/2

Equations in MS Word: Click 'basic' tab. Click "=". Click box left from "=". Type "y". Click fraction icon. Click box above fraction line. Click root tab. Click root symbol. Click below the inserted root symbol. Click "basic" tab. Click "+". Click left to "+". Click "upper index". In respective boxes type "x" and "2". Click right to "+". Repeat with "y" and "2". Click below the fraction bar. Type "2".

Same thing in OOo: Click textual entry box. Type: "z = { sqrt{ {x^2}+{y^2} } over {2} }" Click on the document.

Re:Excellent news

[CastrTroy]

Another good question is will we have to buy Office-07 to support ODF? It seems to me like the plugin will only work with Office-07. What about all the users of Office 97 onwards? Will they be stuck with not being able to read ODF documents, or not being able to convert their .doc files to ODF?

BSD license = good!

[radarsat1]

Well I was amazed to see no one had commented on their choice of LICENSE yet. It's interesting to see what MS would choose as a license in their foray into the OSS world. I would have been really surprised if they'd chosen GPL, because of obvious ethical conflicts, but I don't think I quite expected them to choose BSD.

This is significant, because it means developers are free to take the code and do what they want with it. For instance, how many people actually have Word 2007? With the BSD license someone could back-port it to previous versions...

It also implies that MS can't get away with "embrace and extend", because whatever they choose to do, someone will come along and create a custom version with the cruft removed. Consequently, I expect they just won't bother to put any in the first place. (Well, maybe that's wishful thinking.)

Additionally, if this plugin integrates badly with Word, making it difficult or non-obvious for people to use, or doesn't adequately convert certain features that it could probably handle better, someone is free to come along and improve it!

Even if the MS project doesn't accept people's suggestions and changes, the BSD license ensures that anyone is free to fork it and release their own version.

So: The fact that they chose the BSD license is a really important detail here.. very interesting move.

...but who is actually extending this time?

[plj]

It is interesting that Jones accuses OO.o for extending the ODF spec. From his blog:

“OpenOffice has actually made the decision to extend the spec in ways that don't actually appear to be allowed (like with numbering formats), and I'm not sure if that's the right way to go. I've seen a lot of problems when moving documents from OpenOffice to KOffice for example, and I'm sure these divergences from the spec don't help out. Is the right thing to extend in the same ways OpenOffice did, or is it best to wait for OASIS to release the next version of the spec and hope that it specifies some of those missing features? Nobody wants a format that's constantly changing, so if you do decide to extend the format like OpenOffice did, what happens when ODF 2.0 comes out and it specifies that feature differently from how OpenOffice did it? What about features that aren't in ODF or in OpenOffice? Should we create new extensions ourselves or just lose that information? It's going to be fun working with everyone to figure this stuff out.”

I'm not capable to judge whether this is true or just FUD, but it is interesting nevertheless.

Re:Taking bets...

[TheDreadSlashdotterD]

For one, are they going to accept bugfixes?

Have you never heard of a fork?
You could call it "The One True ODF Converter" if you wanted to distinguish it.

Re:Embrace and Extend

[DavidTC]

Your average Government worker will be trained in this and follow the procedure in a totally mindless fashion.

Or it will be like the POSIX fiasco. At a certain point in history, government purchased opererating systems were required to support POSIX, which is an actual independent standard that various Unixes created after Unix fragmented. The theory was, you could write to POSIX, and your stuff would compile on any Unix, which generally works in practice. So MS tacked some POSIX support onto Windows NT.

Of course, no one actually wrote any programs that used POSIX. The government would purchase NT boxes and write Win32 programs, not POSIX ones. They were just required to purchase POSIX operating systems, not actually use POSIX.

Likewise, I'm imagine the government require programs that support ODF, but everyone uses the Word format to save and transport files, thus completely defeating the purpose.

A better way

[Comboman]

A better way to do it would be if you try to open a file format that is "unknown" to the default Office, it would check the MS website for an appropriate plug-in, much the way Windows Media Player checks for new codecs when you try to open a media file it doesn't recognize.

Better still would be to ask after it downloads the plug-in "Do you want to make ODF the default format for saving Office documents?". Fat chance of that happening though.

Strategic move to prevent users from installing...

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Open office.

If someone gives you an Open doc format, Microsoft doesnt want you installing the free competition to read it.

They want to keep you in their Office suite. (which is very nice btw)

A token

[PhotoGuy]

By not including the support in the core product, this is effectively a token move. I have found that 99% of end users will not install additional components, even if it's a free download. Office is pre-installed on their computers (or installed by their IT people); but ODF will not gain obiquity if Office does not support it "out of the box." (Unless enough brave governments buck MS's strangehold.)

Re:Taking bets...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. This was modded Insightful? Who wasted mod points on that?

MS has already stated publicly on their web site that they are making OpenXML available to the world at large for free. They've also started the standardization process with ECMA. See http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/itpro/ecma faq.mspx [microsoft.com]. So there is no "proprietary format/structures of MSopen XML."

"f you'd like to convert your existing proprietary formatted MS-word document formats then you'll have to move them to MSopen XML first and THEN to ODF"

Wrong. Try reading the blog that was linked in the post. Here is what it says: "There will be a menu item in the Office applications that will point people to the downloads for XPS, PDF, and now ODF. So you'll have the ability to save to and open ODF files directly within Office (just like any other format)."

"And if you want MSopen XML then you'll have to get a future version of MS Office( 2007 ) and it's likely you'll also need another version of Microsoft Windows to run that, and you'll probably need a new computer to run that."

Wrong again. MS is already working on OpenXML native import/save/open for Office 2003, XP, and 2000. Also, Office 2007 is spec'd for something like WinXP SP2 and higher. Of course if you're still on Win98 you won't be able to load Office 2007 but if you are still on Win98 you should move to an OS that isn't 8 years old.

"So good luck trying to fix any of this without reverse engineering Microsofts patented structures, purchasing all that new software, and hardware to do this and still be doing this with possible legal threats from MSFT."

Wrong, wrong wrong. Try learning something about what you're posting isntead of having the standard /. knee-jerk reaction.

Yeah, good luck with that.