The Living Dilbert?

AirmanTux asks: "Next march I will be separating from the US Air Force, after six years wearing 'the uniform', working in the closest thing to IT that the military has. For certain reasons, I've come to the conclusion that I will be more effective in serving the US public out of uniform than in it. There seems to be a common belief that the civilian sector is just as disorganized and mismanaged as the uniformed services. Do you think this is true? Are there any 'honest' places to work any more (where promotions/awards are based on work preformed and bureaucracy, and politics aren't encouraged to supplant the 'mission), or has America become one big living Dilbert strip?"

usajobs.com

[geekylinuxkid]

did you try searching for a GS job at usajobs.com [usajobs.com]? I plan on getting a GS job when my enlistment is over. if you have a clearance try clearancejobs.com [clearancejobs.com]. hope that helps.

It's not as bad as Dilbert.

[FatSean]

I work for a large organization, which as a result of it's size, has a sizeable ammount of beaurocratic BS. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I don't feel my management is as pathetic as portreryed in the strips...not even close. I think it helps to work for a company that takes IT seriously, as a genuine method for improving the business and not a dreaded tax to be paid like waste removal or maintenance. Unfortunately I have no insight as to how to determine this from the outside.

But, people are people. I might make a vague generalization about the personality types that join the military, but that probably won't be productive.

Go small company?

[slide-rule]

After six years at a large international engineering outfit in the aerospace sector, I was very fortunate to find an IT job at a small, commercial-software-making outfit. The change in attitude and valuation of my skill set is like night and day. (Of course in favor of the small company.) That being said, opportunities in such companies aren't all that common, and you may trade some of the perks that larger companies can provide you. I took a $5k/year cut from the previous job, and my insurance coverage isn't quite as favorable in the smaller company, but I wouldn't think of going back since my input and experience is very much needed and appreciated here. Yes, I got d*mn lucky. Not all hope is lost.

Size Matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Just my personal experience; out of college I started off working for small to medium sized companies and doing a lot of contracting for small projects. It did feel very merit based and like I was making a real difference with my work.

Afte 7 years of that I now work for a Fortune 500 company. I make a lot more money, but I do indeed feel like I'm living inside a Dilber strip. It's the most bizzare working experience I've ever had. Like I said, I make more money, and as my work doesn't have as much impact on the organization as a whole it's less stress.

So, it's a difficult trade off: more money and less stress in exchange for feeling like a tiny cog in a giant machine. I'm still not sure what to think about it: my work is less meaningfull, my work is a smaller part of my life, and my life is better as a whole --- so it seems like I'm moving in the right direction, but it still feels wrong to be dispassionate 8 hours a day.

Re:It's not as bad as Dilbert.

[ConceptJunkie]

I work for a large organization, and I think Dilbert is right on. In fact, most companies I've worked for that weren't startups were very much like Dilbert.

If your company isn't that way, consider yourself lucky.

Last refuge for the honest...

[Sponge Bath]

There is one place that is as honest as you
want it to be... working for yourself.

It's a shitty thing to say, because starting your
own business (or more realistically a partnership with
others you know) is not easy. Maybe you have to slog through
some soul crushing bullshit at a large corporate job to get the
money and contacts you need to do it.

But once you do it (success of failure), you will know what
it is to work for an honest organization where true merit counts.

Once you do, you never want to go back.

can't fire dilbert

[Augmento]

AF has the best reputation of all the services for enlisted MOS and computers. if there are any contractors in your facility/base in your field then let them know you are getting out. most of them will get a referral bonus if you get hired. I can honestly say that nobody treats ex-military better than the DOD contractors. On the flipside, at the highest ranks they all prior service officers and as a former enlisted you may rise far into middle management but the senior positions for most DoD contractors will be out of your grasp. There is some Dilbertisms going on but for the most part its the Dilberting that you know as opposed to the ones you don't. As fas as going government, I did that for 5 years went through grades of GS9-12 as 0443 now changed to 2210. Inside DOD, is about 90% Dilbert with most of them trying to pass off their work to co-workers, subordinates and/or contractors. In and out of DoD, most of the supervisors took this career path; either data entry or secretarial work ->office automation specialist->information technician->supervisor. truly bizarre. on the flipside, i saw a lot of supervisors try to fire people and one person in particular was blatantly malignering, i.e. using sick leave to take days off and come in late, claiming doctor's appointments but never having any proof. after 3 years of documentation and counseling, the supervisor managed to get the person transferred. it was the best he could do. if you really want to go government; if you don't have a bachelor in something get one, if you do get a masters MBA or just generic MOM (aka Masters of Management) somewhere and skip the GS and apply straight to the SES http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/ses.asp [opm.gov] beyond the military-industrial complex, I don't know I have never really left it.

Re:The world is not a Dilbert strip...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Unfortunately, small businesses can and do have pretty dumb owner-operators too. It's hard to explain, but any individual can have quirks to serious personality flaws, but not fatal to the business that get in the way of good sense, and that carries into how they operate a business, they can survive and succeed, but not as well as they could.

Re:Keep it small

[Jeremi]

Any organisation beyond a certain size inevitably becomes pathological in its behaviour.

Agreed... when the company is below a certain size, everybody can exist within the same monkeysphere [pointlesswasteoftime.com], and several hundred thousand years of social evolution help things along. In much larger organizations, multiple monkeyspheres form, leading to indifference and inefficiency at best, or low-level tribal warfare at worst.

Military promotion is *very* clear cut.

[JudasBlue]

> Are there any 'honest' places to work any more (where promotions/awards are based on work preformed and >bureaucracy, and politics aren't encouraged to supplant the 'mission),

The United States Military is many ways a highly inefficent organization in the micro, and lord knows it is filled with bureaucracy that is phenomonal. That said, one of the strong points of the military is the promotion structure.

I have worked at a lot of different jobs in the 17 years since I have been out of the military, from very small shops to enterprise situations, and have never seen anywhere that the promotion situation is as clear-cut as the military. The rules for promotion in the military are phenomonally well definied. There is no guessing and the need for promotion politicing is *by far* the lowest of any organization I have ever been in or even heard of.

It is also completely color and gender blind, which is getting to be the standard in the US, but sure isn't in every shop I have seen.

That said, to be fair to the poster, in the critera for promotion, work performed tends to come about the middle of the list of things that determine your promotion status. Military bearing (a catchall for how well you meet the basic military requirements for behavior and action) for example, is often at least if not more important than your actual job performance at the lower ranks (which the poster is if he served 6 years). But if you are joining the military in the first place, you pretty much know that unless you aren't too bright. At least I sure did.

I am not pushing the military here, nor disagreeing with the poster's basic tenent that the military can be a phenomonally frustrating work envrionment. My decision to get out was definitely the correct one for me and I haven't looked back. But once I got a good taste of civilian experience, the one thing that kept impressing me about the military was the promotion system. Of course, that said, I have gotten a *lot* further in civilian life than I ever would have in the military rank structure. I sucked with the military bearing stuff, but that wasn't the fault of the military, I am the one who signed up to wear the green suit.

Re:The world is not a Dilbert strip...

[AuMatar]

It means one other thing- it means when I look at myself and how I live, I can be happy with the choices I've made. All the extra money in the world couldn't make up for that.

Juat the opposite

[YrWrstNtmr]

I'm posting A/C because now my company considers ex-military IT techs at the very bottom of the list when hiring due to too many problems we've had with them in the past. We actively discriminate against them due to getting burned too many times.

My last company was just the opposite. About 1/2 our IT team was ex military (myself included). Navy and Air Force. No prima donnas, no ego trips.

Weak.

[deep44]

I can't believe how many people fall for this sort of thing. The parent is quite obviously a troll - he switches from being a hiring manager at some point in the past ('used to be a hiring manager ..') to currently working for a company that discriminates against ex-military applicants ('we actively discriminate ..').

Additionally, just reading the first paragraph, it's quite obvious the poster re-worded things quite a bit -- too many extra words.

All that, plus he's posting a very controversial opinion as an AC .. yep- troll. Nice try, though.

Re:No.

[Secrity]

There is a difference between small companies and large companies in how much they value individual employees. In general, I have seen that small companies or companies that are ran by professional partnerships value employees as being valued assets. From my experience, large corporations tend to see their IT employees as being commodity assets that are easily written off. The whole outourcing situation is an example of how much regard corporations have for employees. Large corporations tend to be very sensitive to quarterly profit reports as they directly affect stock prices. When there is a bad quarter, the edicts to cut expenses start rolling down hill and budgets get cut. Most corporations have already cut the easily cut expenses, such as travel expenses and meeting expenses. The only way that many managers see that they can cut expenses is to cut employees.

Re:usajobs.com

[JonToycrafter]

You're right that job security IS a line item on a paycheck. Much as IT folks don't want to hear it, I minimized the cost of my job security line item by getting myself a union card.

After I saw my assistant (and others) get summarily laid off with no benefits, I joined in union organizing efforts. Our office successfully negotiated a union contract. For 1.15% of my gross pay (about the first five minutes of every work day) I can't be laid off unless the organization opens their financials and proves a financial need, and if I'm fired unjustly, I have recourse.

I realize this situation doesn't apply to everyone - I work for an organization where there have been three rounds of financially unnecessary layoffs in the past six years. Still, for me, 1.15% buys job security, no cuts to my benefits, and a guaranteed cost-of-living increase. I may change my mind this winter when we need to negotiate a second contract, but for the last 2.5 years being a unionized IT worker's been quite good for me.

There is NO JOB SECURITY

[ScottFree2600]

Repeat after me: "There is NO JOB SECURITY" Everything should be considered a "temp" job or project due to mergers/acquisitions and general imcompetance in business. Avoid public companies like the plague!