USPS To Offer Free E-Mail

RobHornick writes: "Supposedly, the US Postal Service is going to begin offering free e-mail addresses to all 120 million of the nation's residential addresses. MSNBC thinks it could be 'the most efficient spam delivery tool ever created.' I don't know, but their business model certainly seems like it would be selling the addresses to mass-marketers, who probably wouldn't mind not having to pay 33 cents per letter." I love programs run by the government the signing up for which "would be strictly voluntary." But don't worry about the security of that data or any privacy implications: Deputy Postmaster General John Nolan says "We'll be as secure, or more secure, than other sites in terms of the privacy people can expect from us."

Addressing?

[e-mail] .us? Or what?

(not that they're really in Illinois)



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Re:Sure, why not!

Couple of years ago in Chicago a group of nine postal workers were caught after running thousand of pounds of mail through a clearing house where they were pillfered and dumped.

Specifically, they were looking for correspondence between migrant workers here in the US and their families in Mexico and Central America. Seems these workers had a habit of putting cash in their letters home for their families and there was a large enough concentration of migrants in Chicago to make this profitable. When they were caught, they had a three bedroom apartment full to the ceiling with missing mail.

A similar case happened in Florida around the same time.

My father in law works for the postal service so I hear these sort of stories often. However, considering the amount of mail delivered and the regular level of service this organization maintains, they actually do a pretty good job. Far better than their counterparts in other countries.
.33 will send a message to anyone in the US in less than a week. Pretty good, really.

As for millions of Americans gaining access to email, there are more free internet services out there than ever before; many people do not have email addresses because they choose not to or do not see a need for it. The postal service wants to enter another market just like they did in the overnight delivery service. They just take a little longer to get mobilized.

Re:At least with snail mail...

Oh, God, how bad off do you have to be before you aspire to be 'as respectable as telemarketing'? :)

What the canadian postal service did.

When the canadian postal services discovered e-mail. The offered a free encrypted e-mail account to every canadian. ...but you can only send e-mail to someone with a Canadian Post e-mail account... kind of useless. It's been at least a year, and I haven't heard of that since then. I think it probably dead and buried.

god...

yeah, and year from now, they'll be charging you $.33 per mail. it will take a week to be delivered, assuming that your message was not in the 25% that get lost every day.

joy.

=--- - - .

USPS is not very up on things

True story. Back in 1997 I changed my address. I went to the USPS web site and printed out a change of address form, then I had to take it to the post office and hand it in. Strange that they wouldn't accept online submissions.

Anyway, I get up to the counter, and hand the guy the form. He immediately says "what's this?" I tell him it's a change of address form. He looks at me like I'm from Mars. I tell him that it's a legitimate form for address changes. He tells me that it doesn't look like any form he's ever seen. I tell him that I got it off the internet.

Then he practically yells at me "I DON'T KNOW NOTHIN' ABOUT THE INTERNET!!!!!!"

I didn't know there were so many Gone with the Wind fans working at the USPS! Geez.

I convinced him that it would be a fun experiment to pretend the form looked like a normal form and submit it just like the other forms are normally submitted. He didn't seem happy about it, but my address got changed.

A simple solution to the Spam problem

As a central deliverary point, the PO would be in an ideal situation to implement a simple Spam filter. Here's how I'd do it:

1. Have the forwarding system recognize three classes of email: no digital signature; signed with a individual's digital signature; signed with a bulk-mail signature.
2. Anybody can register an individual DS, but has a reasonable limit on the number of messages they can have forwarded per day (say, 100).
3. Anybody can register a bulk-mail DS, with no limit on the number of messages they can have forwarded.
4. The forwarding system uses a filter specified by the recipient. The user can block or allow all mail in any of the three categories. Also, the user can block or allow all mail from specific senders in the DS categories.

Bells and whistles: you'd have to have some way to prevent spammers from using multiple DSs to circumvent filters and/or the limit on individual-class email. (Deliberate delays in issuing DS certificates? Extensions of Mail Fraud laws?) You would probably want each bulk-mail one (1) chance to contact any given recipient, so (for example) you don't unintentionally filter out mail a customer service department for your favorite ecommerce site (a problem I currently have with Yahoo's Spam filter).

Re:And the performance to boot...

When you live in a small town or other remote place, you're making a choice to do without some amenities of big cities... Having to pay a bit more for FedEx pickup doesn't seem unreasonable. What does seem wrong is expecting city-dwellers to subsidize you so you don't have to drive to Denver.

Before you flame my ass, I used to live on a small (~10,000 people) island. There are a lot of perks, and a few drawbacks. It's a choice.

Just so this isn't completely OT, I'd like to point out that the Canadian government already has a system by which every Canadian can get a secure electronic mailbox (they're almost paranoid about the security--they snail-mail you your user ID and password in seperate envelopes). You can use it for bills or other forms of communication email isn't secure enough for...

Re:And the performance to boot...

The biggest shock for me was seeing that they plan a new service where they will print your email and deliver it to your house for $.41 per piece! That's a 25% premium over first class mail.

In addition to the charge, this also means that they will be accessing and (presumably) reading all your mail for you.

I don't wear a tinfoil hat, and I don't fear the government but I do not want the postal service correlating my physical and email addresses any more than I want my mailman reading my email.

Follow the: money, bullets, and trees

The article states...

Experts estimate the Postal Service stands to lose $17 billion a year by 2008 to

e-mail and online bill payment -- a figure equivalent to one-quarter of its annual income.

A better statement would be to say that, "...email and online bill payment stands to reduce the unneeded expense of USPS growth by one-third. The added benefit is that the virtual email post offices never close, unlike the 9-5 windows at your local branch."

As an online bill payment type person, I'm probably posting about 5-8 fewer letters each month because Visa automatic drafts my checking account to pay my Visa credit card. And I also have already setup my Visa so that it pays all my utilities, rent, loans, and purchases

There is also a side-benefit in human lives saved. Fewer postal employees means a reduced population of psychos in the mail room which "go postal". ;)

The tree huggers should also be happy since fewer customers will drive their SUV to queue up at the local post office to send stuff in the mail or buy stamps. Because the "experts" believe $17 billion isn't going towards additional mailbox fodder and the resources required to get it there. (stamps/envelopes/return address labels/jeeps/semis) that $17 billion can then be used to fund GreenPeace, The Sierra Club or Shave the Whales.

OH GOD YES!

I LOVE THIS IDEA! There's nothing like the possibility of having an email address like:

303_north_seminary_avenue_park_ridge_il_60068-3048 @usps.gov

Finally, all my dreams of owning an email address have come true!

Re:We need postal DNS

Sadly, the post office is doing what other people do just fine already, and not coming up with a way to stay relevent. Dare I wonder if we will soon even need a USPS?

I hate how every time someone decides to talk about that wonderous new invention e-mail, the end of the discussion always has to be a statement like this.

Yes, we will need a postal service of some sort for a long time, whether it's a corporation called the United States Postal Service or one called FedEx. You know why? Cause you can't ship stuff like auto parts, computers, eBay purchases, and Grandma's presents via e-mail. People tend to forget that cyberspace isn't real. It's just a virtual (read: imaginary) place that functions very well for information but sucks for actual atoms and molecules.

And as far as government organizations go, the post office isn't exactly like other governmental organizations. They don't depend on the Congressional budget and they operate as a corporation, not as an agency. They are actually an example of an excellently run part of the government and make a strong argument for modeling the different agencies after corporations. The post office is completely self-supporting and you can believe they're not going to attempt to do something if they're not going to make money on it.

While I don't think the e-mail address thing is a good idea, I don't think it is a bad one, either. And I think the Post Office will do a /much/ better job or regulating and controlling abuses to its system than organizations like Hotmail and Yahoo do.

One bit of good to come of this

Maybe having the PostOffice offering email services will hasten the modernization of privacy doctrine and Fourth Amendment jurisprudence to cover email as well as it does paper documents, which is to say, not very well at the moment -- supoenas for 'mere evidence' that would've been categorically rejected centuries ago, fishing expeditions into people's computer hard drives, carte blanche for employers to read and divulge private correspondence, etc. Having the PostOffice involved should add something interesting to the constitutional pot.

Re:And the performance to boot...

Why the hell can't they concentrate on the one and only one reason they should even exist:

Delivering a first-class letter within 1-2 days.

Leave the package delivery, the stamp collection promotion, the money order sales, the bicycle racing team sponsorship, and now friggin' eMail, to the entities that are damn well suited to handle these things

Don't miss the point! The USPS is trying to dodge obsolecence. If you need to send a few-page document to someone, what's the most efficient way to do so? Email! So what's going to happen to a business whose primary income comes from sending few-page documents? Now, postal delivery is still important in cases where physical transfer is required: legal documents, which could arguably be done over email, and packages, which is where I think the postal service should capitalize.

This email thing is just a desperate attempt to rescue the first-class business, an effort which I think is doomed. I mean, everyone in the US could get a hotmail account (I know, I know... but...) and not have to pay $0.41 per message. This is where the whole plan breaks down.

But, the USPS has a respectable package delivery service, which seems to have some pretty badass bang-for-buck, and I think they could do quite well in this arena.

We need postal DNS

OK, since this article is more than an hour old, I guess being moderated up is out of the question. So for those of you browsing low:

First, this idea is silly and relatively useless. The private sector operates something similar and better. All the post office can add is a mechanism which other regulations will glom onto until it becomes your mandatory official email address-- a little like what has happened with Social Security numbers.

Second, the post office has NO interest in stopping spam. For one thing, their paper-mail revenue stream isn't supported by those silly first-class stamps you've been buying. It is supported by third class 'business mail' aka junk mail. Good side: you get cheap postal mail. Bad side: you get a ream of banner ads in your mailbox every week.

Third, the government's problem all along has been a weakness of adapting to innovation. They come up with this great paper plan, and five months into it, as circumstances change, the plan ends up solidifying. Within a year or two, the whole system is out of date. I've worked with government agencies and contractors in the past; this is how it has always gone.

Finally, and most importantly, if the post office really wants to do something good, they should create a name server system for postal addresses. IE abstract the physical address away from the resident. So I just write "CmdrTaco, 80486DX" on the envelope, plop down a stamp, and it goes to Commander Taco, whereever his physical address might be . Do that, and right there you would only need one change of address card, and everyone who uses your EasyCode would automatically be updated. People who need a physical address can always still use that. You could update it over the web or at a post office if people are really worried about security.

Sadly, the post office is doing what other people do just fine already, and not coming up with a way to stay relevent. Dare I wonder if we will soon even need a USPS?

Ultamite terrorist tool

There's a big problem with this - your email is now linked to who you are in meatspace! If I give out a usps email address, I give out my physical address - which is my name, my phone number, and my social security number, for those with access to databases. Add to that l33t kiddies - what happens if one of them decides to harras you? Expect mail bombs. Expect phone calls at 1am. Expect stolen identity.

This ought to be illegal, on the grounds that it's the greatest breach of privacy ever concieved.

What USPS WOULD be GOOD for.

Actually, what I would like to see the USPS do
is validate GPG keys. I would love to take my
GPG key to the nearest post office with
appropriate ID and have it "signed" by the
Post office.

This could work especially well with the recent
digital signature legislation that was passed.

What they should really do...

...is make a private system where you have to pay to send email.

Wait, keep reading for just a minute, please...

You're still here? Good. Everybody's been pointing out that when snail mail spammers can send mail at no cost to everyone, out mailboxes will be filled to the brim each day.

My point is, why should they do it for free?

If there is a nationally available system where it costs (for instance) one dollar to send an email to another person, who could then quickly and easily refund the money if he choose to, spamming would be so prohibitively expensive that noone would do it.

Well, that's my two cents, anyway.

This wouldn't be all bad.

The one thing I'm interested in is that, apparently, they are planning to let you to send an email to an address, which they will then print and hand-deliver to the addressee. For me, this would be really nice -- my wifes grandparents and I enjoy a regular correspondence -- a correspondence that would be much more regular if I could email instead of snail-mail. The chances of them ever getting a computer are virtually nil, so this is the best that could probably be hoped for.

This could also be good for business. It could essentially be used as a reliable stamping & stuffing operation with costs of only 8 cents per document. Ultimately, it could save a lot of gas and air-miles as things are sent electronically to the post office, then printer rather than send physically the whole way.

Here's to hoping they don't come out with a fourth class version of this. The spam would then become extreme.

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Don't be quick to judge...

My father works for the USPS, and there's a few things I've learned about how mail advertisements work and how this e-mail system will work.

The USPS will not be revealing ANY information in your usps.gov e-mail address. You will have the opportunity to choose what ID you want to use for your e-mail, although the ask that you use your name in some way rather than something like [e-mail].

Mail bombs? Early morning phone calls? How do you get that? If some Joe Smoe has some vandetta against you and he knows your e-mail address does NOT mean he's going to know your physical address. Look at his options:

1) You set up your usps.gov mail to forward mail to some hotmail account. So you get e-mails. Darn. Delete them. That could happen with any e-mail account anyway.

2) You receive in paper form all your usps.gov e-mail. It's going to cost him 41 cents per message. Why would he pay 41 cents to send you threatening? Even if he did, it's got a return address. Fake? Not likely, because he had to pay 41 cents to send that mail. Trust me, you'll have a way to trace him.

3) Even if the letter is threatening, it's a federal offense to send threatening mail, and whoever sent the mail will have an identity. And the USPS has quite a large, nation-wide fraud center that is being equipped to deal with those kinds of issues.

And, no matter how he sends it, whether from his computer or physically going to the post office to mail the message, he can't get anything more than your name from the post office. They aren't allowed by federal law to reveal any private information such as your phone #, SS#, etc.

And if you're worried about spam, don't be. It costs about 21 cents per letter for advertisers to send you a two page message via snail mail (2 cents for the paper and envelope, 6 cents labor to print the form letter, stuff it, and print the envelope, and 13 cents for bulk-rate mailing), which is still quite cheaper than 41 cents to mail a two page message via USPS e-mail. And for credit card companies who have to mail all those pamphlets and forms in the message? It would take about 9 pages of e-mail ASCII text to reveal all the information they're required to disclose for a credit card application, which will cost them around, I believe, 60 cents, to send via USPS e-mail, much more than to send snail-mail.

Oh, and for the highly paranoid, no one, neither businesses nor an everyday Joe Smoe, will just be able to walk into the USPS and say "Hey, I got this e-mail address of someone, could you please give me his name/snail address/phone number please?"

the Post Office is seriously deluded

From the article:"People say the Internet could be a lot more usable if there was a greater trust involved," he says. "At the Postal Service, people trust us."

That's truly funny. You can't even trust the post office to deliver a letter within a month. Here in Chicago, it's almost a regular occurrence that firemen put out a fire at a postal carrier's house to discover stacks of burnt mail.

"The USPS: When it absolutely, positively, has to have a 40% chance of being there by the end of next week."

Re:One bit of good to come of this

I have to admit a certain level of concern whenever people start talking about 'Modernizing the Constitution'.

An example of an oft proposed 'update' is to remove the right of citizens to bear arms. No matter how attractive the idea of changing one of the first 10 amendments is, consider the dangers posed as well.

So does this mean....

that my email will now me bent, broken, bruised and battered as well as 3 days late?

Quick! Sign me up!

Wait, Wait, Wait this makes perfect sense!

The USPS is projected to lose a lot of money to commercial e-mail and third-party delivery companies. So the USPS, in its infinite wisdom and who makes so much money from all of the junk mail that they deliver that they should have to PAY US for the privilege of delivering a first class letter, wants us to sign up for a free e-mail account to better organize us for the spammers so that they won't need to send bulk junk mail anymore, hence eliminating said profitable revenue source.

Oh, wait a minute, it made sense for a minute. I used to work in the government, and something took over the logic portion of my brain. I'm all better now. Sorry.

Sure .... untill you move

so how will forwarding address work?

maybe it wil be more like:

[e-mail]-ridge.i l-60068-3048.usps.gov

with 'householder' replaced with your name for personal stuff ....

And the performance to boot...

Why the hell can't they concentrate on the one and only one reason they should even exist:

Delivering a first-class letter within 1-2 days.

Leave the package delivery, the stamp collection promotion, the money order sales, the bicycle racing team sponsorship, and now friggin' eMail, to the entities that are damn well suited to handle these things

Then, and only then, will we see efficiency in this government organization.

Re:One bit of good to come of this

Very good point there, in that subpoenas can only be delivered by mail if it is through the USPS, and then even if they lose it it is still considered delivered, as the USPS is a trusted courier in the eyes of the law. Now just wait for them to start mass-subpoena-ing people through e-mails and then you getting in trouble for not checking your usps.gov e-mail. After all, it's still a "trusted source!"

Re:USPS: Not the government, exactly

Actually, they are a part of the Executive Branch of the U.S. government. This means they fall under the president's direct control along with the FBI, Secret Service, and other government agencies.

Re:government programs

Actually, it really is a gov't organization. Destroying a mail box is a federal crime, because it is considered federal property. Blowing up a mail box is categorized as an act of terrorism (use of explosives in destruction of federal property). You cannot refuse the service of the USPS. Since their property is considered property of the federal government, I'd call them a government org.

Postal Inspectors and Chain Mail

Hey... the Postal Inspectors [usps.com] are the guys who bust you for sending around chain letters (get-rich-quick stuff & pyramid schemes) - perhaps their jurisdiction will expand to email, as well, when they see their servers clog up with that crap...

"Excuse me, sir? Did you send this spam? Please come with us..."

That would make me happy. :-)

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great, more stressed USPS employees

So now the jargon will be "He's gone Postal Sysadmin".

At least with snail mail...

At least with snail mail I can go to my P.O. Box and weed through all the junk mail pretty easily. But I doubt the USPS is prepared for the onslaught of commercial spam such a scheme would engender. They may be used to delivering tons of the tangible stuff every day, but with spam it's always pointed out that it costs nothing to send spam ads so people send more spam e-mail than they could ever send spam snail-mail.

And this brings up a very important point; as a government agency, the USPS wouldn't be able to filter spam. Spammers could complain that it's governmental prior restraint to filter their unsolicited ads. Without the ability to filter spam at all, I suspect that such a system would rapidly buckle under heavy load. Even worse, this is the USPS--they'd probably use a naming system for everyone's addresses, a naming system which is easily guessed by spammers. I imagine that this idea will either go nowhere, or if they do implement it that they fold under the strain or, if they do filter, become a legal target for the Direct Marketing Association, or as I like to call them "the first horseman of the apocalypse." I hate those guys....

Re:Ultamite terrorist tool

I want you to tell me where the article stated that your e-mail address would contain your physical address. They said that the processing would be handled in a central database, where e-mail to your USPS e-mail address would be routed to your physical address internally. Unless someone hacked the database, your security would not be compromised.

Try not using the system now...

The only thing I ever get in my mail box are bills and dead tree spam. There are numerous methods to pay the bills online now and I'm not interested in dead tree spam, so how do I opt out of the current system? I expect it would be every bit as hard as the Seinfeld episode made it out to be.

Re:And the performance to boot...

Simple, really. A few years ago I lived in Limon, Colorado. Population about 2,000, and an hour and a half to anything resembling civilization. UPS, FedEx, and the like would deliver there, but pickups cost extra. The nearest office was in Denver - that hour and a half I just mentioned. The USPS is required to maintain a presence, regular pickup, and regular delivery service to towns like Limon, which meant I paid no more for that service than somebody in Seattle.

Now, that's probably one of the sources of inefficiency, that need to have deliver and pickup service even where it's an income loser. But given the choice between the government and, say Microsoft or IBM, well, at least I have a chance of getting through the government's layers of paperwork and obfuscation.

Re:god...

And when one of their server dies you can be sure it was a stray bullet passing through the power supply.