Inexpensive Linux/BSD Handhelds

cloudscout writes, "The latest craze in handheld computing isn't the new Palm IIIc, it's the IBM WorkPad z50 currently being unloaded at ridiculously low prices by all sorts of discount Internet retailers. This device runs Windows CE 2.11 by default, however, a successful NetBSD Port means that this device could be the first widespread *NIX handheld. There's even a Linux Port in the works. The initial blowout saw these devices selling for under $250, but the huge demand has driven that price up to the $400 range now. Still cheap for a nearly full-sized system with 640x480 color LCD. "

Why was this story only posted once?

It will take years to get to 20,000 posts at this rate!

How to install NetBSD on the Workpad

It is fairly straightforward. The NetBSD hpcmips crowd has been running on a wide variety of WinCE handhelds for a while. If you want to learn more, the web site and (more importantly) the mailing lists can help you out.

Re:Here's some more details of the z50

Reading this review points a few things that might be relevant.

1. 2.7 pounds.
2. No touchscreen.
3. Full keyboard.

This is NOT a palmtop folks. As a handheld it is more like a low power low graphic low memory low expansion ultralight, than a color palmpilot.

Certainly I could see some uses for a product like this, but since I see people in this discussion talking about handwriting recognition I would like to suggest they make sure they understand the specs. This one uses a nubby eraser pointer like thinkpads and such do.

For some reason the performance chart for this says it has handwriting recognition but since it doesn't have a touch screen that seems sort of a part of the OS and not really relevant to the piece of hardware we are talking about.

D

Re:Why?

Unix is *NOT* a "server OS". Unix is a text processing system. Do your research.

Unix has "high overheads"? Compare it to MacOS or Windows, and laugh.

Why do I run NetBSD on my laptop, instead of Windows? Because it's a more flexible desktop platform. Why would I run Linux on a PDA, instead of Windows CE? Because it would be a more flexible platform - to say nothing of "more stable".

But mostly, you're just plain wrong about a "server OS". Unix isn't a server OS, it's a desktop/workstation OS that happens to scale well. MVS is a server OS.

Re:Laptops are inexpensive.

You don't want that space between the last * and =.

Cool, It Runs Linux.

There are several Linux PDA projects.

• PDAs/Handhelds and Linux [snafu.de]: good summary table.
• LinuxCE [linuxce.org]: Linux for Handheld Computers.
• ucLinux [uclinux.org]: Linux on Palm Pilot.
• PC110 [hrl.com]: Linux on IBM PC110 compact computer.

Wait a minute

It comes preinstalled with Windows CE, but you can install NetBSD or Linux? Can you buy it prepackaged with NetBSD, or do you have to download and install it youself? How do you install it? This is a palmtop, remember. Do you install the files over the serial interface? Even after you have it installed, how do you interface with this thing? Does it have its own special version of X? Or is it just console commands? And why exactally would it be useful to have BSD or Linux on a palmtop anyways? Usually the palms proprietary OS does everything that the palmtop is supposed to do. Are you gonna be running Apache on your Workpad or what. C'mon people.

Laptops are inexpensive.

Last month, I bought a clearance laptop (Dell LM P90, 16 MB RAM, 1 Gig HD, and 640*480 active matrix display) for $500 Canadian.

I bought an extra ethernet/modem combo for 60$CDN and it runs linux (slackware) with X prefectly.

I don't know about these pda's or sub-laptops, but I think they must get a lot cheaper before they can compete with out-of-date computers.

Re:WorkPad details?

The Workpad you saw is the C3, which is an IBM-branded Palm. This article is about the z50, which has been discontinued (can't even find a mention at IBM.com) due to the fact that IBM tried to sell them for $1000 when they first came out. Like the original post says, retailers were recently unloading these things for around $250, but demand has since increased the price. Here's a retailer [pcwonders.com] that has a some of the specs listed for the unit. Probably a nice unit under $300, but the current price is a bit much for my blood.

mobile CONNECTIVITY, not just computing

you know, I would really like to have a little device such as this beast, but more important than low price or color screens or hard drive space is that my portable computer must be internet-enabled. I need to bea ble to reach the portable machine from the internet and I need to be able to reach the internet from the portable machine. is anyone out there doing this? does anyone have a plam with a minstrel, or a libretto with CDCP pcmcia hardware? how do you like it? are you able to run services on the mobile machine and connect to them from the rest of the internet?

this might be a bit off topic, but if anyone is doing this sort of thing, gimme a heads up.

(and yes, I've read homepages of several libretto+cdcp people; I know itspossible and it's being done, I just want to know if peopel are happy with it and hear some more experiences.)

You aren't the intended target market

I picked one up for $279 a couple of weeks ago. Right now I'm waiting for a memory upgrade before I play around with NetBSD on it. Windows CE is terribly slow on this device so I'm hoping the NetBSD port will give me some usable utilities. (the telnet apps for CE, for example, suck dingo's kidneys).

Instant-on and extremely long battery life (8 hours on a single charge) make this a convenient device for those of us who deal with on-call support. A 56k modem would be nicer than the 33.6k modem built-in, but all-in-all, simple support activities aren't too painful at 33.6k. VNC is even bearable.

I have the Novatel Wirless Merlin PCMCIA CDPD modem in mine, but the usefulness is limited in Windows CE since TCP/IP applications for that platform are crappy at best.

Your P133 may suit your needs just fine, however it is not going to have instant-on or the long battery life afforded by the WorkPad z50. The people who will use this aren't going to use it as a primary workstation. It's going to be a slight step above a mobile thin-client.

Typical

Typical. He talks about the current NetBSD port thats working and mentions that there is a Linux port in progress so on the article title its "Inexpensive Linux/BSD Handhelds.

Re:Wait a minute

Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and back away slowly ;)

Yes it's bad that you'll be paying for a CE license when you won't be using it. However, if enough people request a BSD or ``blank'' version of the z50, I'm sure IBM will notice and offer that option.

Don't underestimate the value of BSD or Linux on this kind of machine. Fit it with a FE card, and you'll have a router/firewall/web-server/etc. Not that you would want to use it for production, but imagine coming to some customer as a networking consultant, technician, or whatever, then plugging in your handheld to the network - and instantly they have the transparant proxy and news server they needed temporarily ;) It impresses the shit out of people. I've seen people running news servers and web servers on these pocket devices, as a temporary solution though, but still the ordinary unknowing people (induhviduals) around you are baffled. Their beliefs faint, they turn pale, they eat off you hand, they'd bend over and say thanks afterwards if you told them to :)

The OS is the computer.

user/developer of CE and z50's tries to explain

You are all in the wrong mindset and just posting because you think you are cool. =P Let me point out a few things about CE devices in general that will hopefully clear up a lot of confusion, I'll also make a few comments specifically about Linux & z50's...

On a CE device the RAM is SRAM not DRAM. So the RAM's state is maintained when you power down. So you install everything into RAM. (Unless you also have a compact flash card).

CE is loaded from ROM, and the ROM's are masked - meaning not flash upgradable. But the bootloader and OS are installed into ROM. SO to boot Linux or NetBSD you run a CE app which is a bootloader for a bsd/linux kernel which is on a compact flash or pcmcia card. (Don't even get me started on the lack of protection in CE that allows you to do this) There is hope, on the z50 the ROM card is removable. On some other CE devices its soldered on. So there's a possibility of people selling linux distro's for the z50 that you just pop in... that will be a long time coming though...

In response to a response below this level - IBM is not going to offer NetBSD or Linux as an install option. Ha! Keep dreaming. They have just dropped this device, why would they go on and bother to do development for a dead platform?

Also, yes you can play MP3's on it. It has a fast 131mhz r41xx MIPS chip. IMO its the display driver on all CE devices that makes them seem so slow. (Oh, and probably WinCE)

Oh, and this is not a palmtop. Its a Jupiter class device. Its a mini-notebook sized device. Roughly the size of a Sony VAIO...

Here's a screen shot of a developer running X on a z50: http://pc1.peanuts.gr.jp/~kei/Xscreen.gif [peanuts.gr.jp]

Re:WorkPad details?

Here's an image [ibm.com] over at IBM.

A product overview... [ibm.com]

More to come if I can find it..

Here's some more details of the z50

There's a review of it at Cnet [cnet.com]