Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

The Net As New Jerusalem, Part Two

Posted by JonKatz on Fri Nov 10, 2000 12:00 PM
from the last-days-of-politics-(cont.) dept.
If Victor Frankenstein were running around 21st century America, he wouldn't have to hide in a tower with the monster. He'd be in Silicon Valley, lunching with venture capitalists or counting his bio-tech shares and planning the move to shiny new offices. If the Net is, in fact, the New Jerusalem, it needs a different kind of politics, especially the kind that begin with an ethical and moral purpose. Some ideas of mine follow; please add yours.

(Second in a series)

"I have worked hard for nearly two years, for the sole purpose of infusing life into the human body," wrote Victor Frankenstein in Mary Shelley's great novel. "For this I had deprived myself of rest and health. I had desired it with an ardour that far exceeded moderation; but now that I had finished, the beauty of the dream vanished, and breathless horror and disgust filled my heart."

In our time, Victor Frankenstein would be in Silicon Valley, taking one meeting after another with venture capitalists, angling for a profile in Wired, wrangling tens of millions for his new company, lifeinthebody.com (based in Cambridge, Mass.), beginning commercial licensing of the discoveries of the Human Genome Project.

In contemporary America, Victor wouldn't have to hole up in a remote tower far from human observation. He could partner up with somebody out in the open and promise to create perfectly engineered babies, cure cancer, and stop aging. The venture capitalists would be drooling all over him.

Ethical morasses lie at the heart of modern-day technology, increasingly run by highly-educated, wealthy elites who have little awareness that everybody isn't as technologically-inclined, -equipped or advanced as they are. In this Jerusalem, half the country is still outside the gates.

But perhaps these ethical quandries could form the foundation for a new kind of ethical and rational politics that addresses social divisions among the techno haves and have-nots, the future of gene mapping, intellectual property questions, the use of nano-technologies, the creation of ubiquitous and expensive technologies that are poorly designed or environmentally damaging, the intrusion of government. As in Victor Frankenstein's time, we hear little public or civic discussion about these choices. They haven't surfaced during the presidential campaign and debates. They get crowded off front pages and TV newscasts by hype-laden stories about dotcom greed, crackers and sexual predators online.

We need an ethical framework for technology, and while I'm not a technologist, I'm happy to start the discussion by suggesting some opening questions to ask about developments technological.

Do we need it?

Can we support it? Can the people who buy or use what we make get free, readily-available help?

Are new technologies open to peer review and scrutiny, that is, are the software, hardware, systems and design of new technologies available for public and other inspection in order to root out potential mistakes, problems and flaws?

Will everyone have equal access to new technologies, or will they become the property of corporate and social elites with specialized knowledge and lots of disposable income?

Do new technologies have unintended consequences? Have academic, business or civic analysts examined them? Have their ramifications been explained to the people affected (as in telling Victor Frankenstein's neighbors that a monster would soon be running around the community?).

Can technologies be created with consideration both for the environment and for consumer's convenience? Can batteries, parts, cartridges, support and service be standardized, so that consumers don't have to continuously scramble? Can software and computer makers agree on ethical standards for their product's lifespan, so that people who invest in expensive technologies can be assured that they will last a few years, and that products and software for them will be available in the future?

Can the sale and licensing of gene research to private bio-tech corporations be halted until critical social issues can be discussed and resolved? The public has yet to grasp the consequences of such researching falling into the hands of a few corporations, lulled as they are by scientific and political promises of cures for cancer, aging and heart disease.

Is downloading music or a novel theft? Do the ethics of copyright and intellectual property need reconsideration? Or elimination? Is there a more rational alternative to the Sonny Bono and Digital Millennium Copyright Acts?

How can we ensure that technology and software companies and Web sites prominently disclose privacy provisions and implications? It ought to be illegal to distribute people's personal information with their knowledge and permission.

Perhaps we should require that before new technologies are licensed, deployed or sold, we need a technological impact statement. Like the environmental statements designed to make people aware that their surroundings could be affected by construction or research projects, a TIS would mean that before projects like the gene map are sold and distributed, ordinary people are aware of the technology and its possible impact on their lives and those of their children.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The New Jerusalem (Two) | Log In/Create an Account | Top | 130 comments (Spill at 50!) | Index Only | Search Discussion
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2
  • As long as it upholds morality I'm for it by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:09AM
  • Realization of the reality of the internet. by Brian TNB (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:09AM
  • Forgive the redundancy of the title. by Brian TNB (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:11AM
  • by thenerd (3254) on Friday November 10 2000, @07:14AM (#631416) Homepage
    Having just read the article, I'm gripped in a post-katz feeling of hysteria and paranoia. Should I be?

    No, I don't think I should. Silicon Valley isn't the new anything. A lot of people have tech jobs there. A lot of people have other sorts of jobs. Yes, technology has got to the point where we can pirate. Just because we can doesn't mean the courts are forced not to prosecute us, as we are still responsible for our actions. Yes, gene research and biotechnology will have ramifications. Six months after an outcry, there'll be legislation (or at least there'll be lawyers).

    While things change, it all stays the same really. Yes, technology impacts on things, but yes, the courts will catch up. We're not above the law. There's nothing stopping me going to kill someone, much like there's nothing stopping me pirating software, or invading somebodies privacy. The difference is that the crime of murder has been around a lot longer.

    It's too easy to think the world will suddently melt down, if you read too much stuff from the net. (Like this article). Whether we need it, or want it, we'll get legislation. Nothing slides too much without being nailed down. We pay lawyers too much.

    thenerd.
  • Technology Impact Statements? by billybob2001 (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:14AM
  • Re:My summary of this article: by crazy_swimmer (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:15AM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by Kierthos (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:19AM
  • by Dragoness Eclectic (244826) on Friday November 10 2000, @07:20AM (#631420)
    Does this article actually define a problem and propose a solution, or does it merely pose a serious of intriguingly vague questions?

    Answer: no, there is no problem actually defined here, though the tenor of the questions implies that the reader is supposed to believe there is one--though not exactly what it is. The imagery and emotional hot-buttons pushed through Katz's choice of phrases have a vague neo-Luddite, Naderite ring to them, which floats away in the swamp of unanswered questions.

    The answer to the questions is: Yes, and Maybe.

    At the bottom we have a nice "perhaps":

    "Perhaps we should require that before new technologies are licensed, deployed or sold, we need a technological impact statement. Like the environmental statements designed to make people aware that their surroundings could be affected by construction or research projects, a TIS would mean that before projects like the gene map are sold and distributed, ordinary people are aware of the technology and its possible impact on their lives and those of their children."

    Translated:
    "Perhaps we should have more government paperwork required before any innovative business is allowed to do anything, so that more bureaucrats can make a living, getting a power trip from saying "no", holding their hands out for bribes--er, campaign contributions--, and so that established business have yet another legal roadblock they can use to squash competition, and so that any fringe group that doesn't approve of your politics can use the process to shut you down regardless of the actual merits of your product or business."

    Reality check: the problem with your "perhaps" is the same old one: WHO DECIDES? Who decides whether my product or business is permissable? Do you really want to hand over to a government body or political group or ANYONE AT ALL the power to FORBID you to research or invent something new?

    (Dragoness hands Jon Katz a copy of "Atlas Shrugged", and crawls back into her lair.)
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by dfetter (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:22AM
  • by plastickiwi (170800) on Friday November 10 2000, @07:22AM (#631422)
    Lest we forget the import of the subtitle of Shelley's novel, we should consider that its central theme is consequence. Victor gets slapped down for playing in God's domain, but his final words are "I have been blasted in these hopes, but another may yet succeed." His death is the consequence of exploring the unknown (it's relevant that he dies on a ship exploring the polar wastes), but the genie of his work is out of the bottle. Captain Walton leaves the pole with Victor's notes in hand, pondering the implications of what he now knows to be possible.

    Humanity's most precious possession is our most terrible curse: memory. We're adept at freeing genies from bottles, but inept at putting them back...or leaving them there even if we do manage to reimprison them.

    It's easy to say we shouldn't pursue a technology that's not sustainable, not clean, not fair in the consequences it will bring into the world...but who are "we"? Certainly Jon Katz and I can agree not to dabble in things that will harm our neighbors or make the world less hospitable for our descendents, but will everyone else? When "we" say "The consequences of Technology X are not acceptable," how do we prevent "not-we" from having, and acting upon, a different opinion?

    Lots of third world nations find it awfully suspicious that the major industrial powers are trying to limit CO2 emissions just when industrialization is starting to benefit the little guy. Sure, we know things now about the effects of CO2 on the environment that we didn't before, but how much comfort is that knowledge to the starving peasant who could have benefited from manufactured goods, but whose government has been bullied into signing an agreement not to use technologies damaging to the environment? How do "we" weigh a .001% greater chance of skin cancer for everyone in the world against the quality of life of a few million? How do we make amends for decisions of this nature that we've already made, and that we continue to make to this day?

  • New Clothing On The Same Old Argument by Phloighd (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:24AM
  • Technology's Benefits by faqmaster (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:24AM
  • Too many of your "Can we....." are simply the result of technological advances and the desire for their continued occurence. We live in a world that is rapidly leaving a lot of people behind.

    However, you fail to realize that there are indeed a great many people just as happy to be left behind as those who must be on the cutting edge.

    Can we protect, standardize, legitamize, or organize everything or mostly everything.

    NO.

    Should we.

    NO.

    Fact is, most of people in this group who want to insulate, protect, coddle, smother, suffocate, and control are for the most part clotting egomaniacs who don't think anyone can think for themselves. Your own text tells me you are part of this elitist crowd which believes it must think for the poor underprivledge people.

    There are cases where help is generally needed, but a lot of the world would cease having a reason to progress, let alone live, if someone was constantly speaking in their head "don't step on the grass", "thats not your money", "tell the policeman everything", "those thoughts are evil"

    too hell with your world Jon, I prefer to have a chance to fuck up my own life as well as a chance to make it work.
  • by Infonaut (96956) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Friday November 10 2000, @07:26AM (#631426) Homepage Journal
    Uh, Jon, I hate to tell you this, but the whole "progress" thing has been going on for a while, and it ain't predictable.

    In the early stages of the automobile, there were hundreds of manufacturers in the US, and lots of unsafe cars. Now there are the Big Three and cars are much safer, but do you think that during the early stages of the industry anyone could possibly have predicted what the automobile would become? In the early stages of any new technology, it's really rather impossible to predict future uses or outcomes.

    Dynamite was supposed to render wars a thing of the past, due to its vast destructive power. I'll bet if you polled leading "experts" and concerned citizens at the time of its creation, most would have agreed with that prognosis.

    My point is that it would be wonderful if we could truly understand the impact of new technologies before their introduction into society, but there are so many variables (human behavior, economic trends, interaction with other technologies, invaders from Mars...) that it's just not feasible to come to any real conclusions about the impact of a technology, other than the really obvious, immediate effects.

    You seem to be saying that we should innovate in accordance within the framework of a vast plan, which is contrary to how innovation works best.

  • Declare it separate? by redhog (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:29AM
  • IMHO, one of the most important contributions of the Free Software Movement is its ethics. People do things for reasons other than money. They share their work with others freely. There's the concept of The Right Thing (rarely agreed on, but it's there). It's OK to eat and even become pretty rich, but those things aren't the focus; there's even an aversion to those for whom it is the focus (suits). And it's voluntary.

    If you think about it, this is the reverse of the problem that Jon started his article with. Lots of r&d is being done not because it's the right thing, but because there may be a great market for it (some researchers, I know, do things for the cool factor w/o thinking of impacts. Ah, well). I think that if we can export the ethics of Free Software to people, this will do the job.

    The concept of "Zion" shows up in a few places other than the Matrix :) (and in most religions, not much like the concept in the Matrix). I'm really surpised sometimes by how some of the ethics of the Free Software movement match my conception of Zion in Mormon theology and thought. If you don't mind reading about the concept with a Mormon/Christian bent, you may want to look at the following:

    A Storyteller in Zion, Orson Scott Card
    Approaching Zion, Hugh Nibley (especially the chapter entitled "Work We Must But The Lunch Is Free")

    (And, yes, there are plenty of differences between the Mormon and Free Software communities. But that doesn't mean something can't be learned by looking around).
  • Re:The courts will catch up. by fatphil (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:30AM
  • Social Engineering by Taufiq (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:30AM
  • What is the West by metis (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:30AM
  • My $.02 by jbischof (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:31AM
  • Your real question.... by flatrabbit (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:32AM
  • The wheel, for example? by DrVital (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:33AM
  • Re:...or, The Modern Prometheus by Phloighd (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:34AM
  • Blatantly Offtopic by Rahga (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:34AM
  • by Andy_R (114137) on Friday November 10 2000, @07:34AM (#631437) Homepage Journal
    Ok, let's look at a specific 20th c. invention and see if this approach would have worked...

    How about the Laser? Katz's Inquision bans it because it's a death ray. Who at the time of the Laser's invention realised it would end up in every home as an integral part of the CD player? No-one. You simply can't guess the implications of an invention 100% accurately.

  • Re:christ by crazy_swimmer (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:37AM
  • There was no sequel to Frankenstein by RhetoricalQuestion (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:41AM
  • Duuh... by Raymond Luxury Yacht (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:42AM
  • Re:Of course everybody hates Katz! by Cap'n enigma (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:42AM
  • Re:Dragoness on Her Knees to the Rich by Taufiq (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:47AM
  • Katz has brought up some good points, but I think he left unsaid one of the most important: specific technologies are not neutral in their effects on society, the environment, and the economy. Often misunderstood, Marshall McLuhan (a Canadian BTW), said "the medium is the message". This has been continually misunderstood as "the medium affects the message". But in fact, any medium (read technology) fundamentally has a message which is its effects on society, the environment and the economy. As a simple example, television is not possible without some pretty serious infrastructure: studios, transmission systems and receivers. This infrastructure costs a huge amount of money to create and maintain so television can never be used effectively by people or groups without money. Not only that, but despite a bit of unpopularity of the concept of globalism, technologies now have an immediate global effect (Linux would not be as far as it is today without globalism). Ignoring this effect is arrogance of the most dispicable kind, and is common among corporations (the dark underbelly of globalism). I have been writing an essay on this topic of a moral and social framework for analyzing technologies. It is still very much in progress, and there are parts that are sounding a bit old, but for what its worth, here it is [berteig.org].
  • Thanks, but we already read Bill Joy in Wired by Ars-Fartsica (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:50AM
  • Proofreader please! by Andy_R (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:51AM
  • by ichimunki (194887) on Friday November 10 2000, @07:58AM (#631446)
    To respond to this post and to the parent at hopefully one swell foop: Since the physical world is rife with artificial borders created by groups called nations and dependent rarely upon any distinguishable or significant physical boundary nor dependent on any real separative qualities of the persons confined to the geographical space possessed by those boundaries (most nations have at least one ethnic minority), why would you expect a transnational group of infotech "haves" to be able to concert any effort to declare their infotech to be no longer subservient to their individual nation of origin (since they must or want to obey their nation's will in all other matters)?

    The best we can hope is that it will become more and more obvious just how artificial those real world national boundaries are, and that rather than regroup along ethnic or ideological splinter lines that all humans will understand their commonalities and work to abolish those sorts of constraints. Once that happens maybe we can talk about independence or freedom as personal liberties and what exactly that will mean for us all as citizens of Earth. Not just on the internet, but in all of life, which is the only way the internet or information will ever be truly free.
  • Re:Dragoness on Her Knees to the Rich by loose_change (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:58AM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by Brian TNB (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:58AM
  • With any new technology... by Malor (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:59AM
  • Katz, please look up "individualist" by anonywous comard (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @07:59AM
  • Re:There was no sequel to Frankenstein by plastickiwi (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @07:59AM
  • Argument context changes by loose_change (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:01AM
  • Answers... by Hallow (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:03AM
  • The Key Question by Mad Hughagi (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:05AM
  • If the Internet is the new Jerusalem... by AFCArchvile (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:06AM
  • Troll? by Cap'n enigma (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:09AM
  • Sealand, internet haven by Brian TNB (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:10AM
  • National purity by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:11AM
  • Re:A true story! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:15AM
  • by Andy_R (114137) on Friday November 10 2000, @08:16AM (#631460) Homepage Journal
    Here in Britain, we have already have strict 'ethical' controls on genetic research, especially where human embryos are concerned.

    What happened? The researchers moved abroad and carried on as normal.

    No matter how 'unethical' any kind of research is, there is always going to be some jurisdiction willing to reap the possible financial rewards.

    As soon as there is a big financial reward to all the opiate chemistry research going on in South America, or all that germ warfare research in going on in Iraq, or the skin colour specific toxin research that was rumoured to be going on under the old South African regieme, let's see how quickly we throw away our moral stance and cash in.

    Am I scaremongering? No. I'm living in a city that was trashed by Nazi V2 bombs in the second world war. Where did all the bomb researchers go after the war? They set up a little thing called NASA.

    See my point?

    Does the ethics police weigh up the peaceful results of the space programme (microchips, for example) and decide the deaths in London were worth it?

  • Re:Your real question.... by jbischof (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:16AM
  • by WombatControl (74685) on Friday November 10 2000, @08:18AM (#631462) Homepage

    ...this one takes the cake...

    Perhaps we should require that before new technologies are licensed, deployed or sold, we need a technological impact statement. Like the environmental statements designed to make people aware that their surroundings could be affected by construction or research projects, a TIS would mean that before projects like the gene map are sold and distributed, ordinary people are aware of the technology and its possible impact on their lives and those of their children.

    The fact is, we can never predict where technology will take us with any degree of accuracy. Could the Wright Bros have said, "well, in fifty years, our little POS contraption will develop into hypersonic spy planes that could observe the Soviet Union, so maybe we should keep this secret as to not upset the balance of power."

    Could Tim Berners-Lee have said "gee, this little Web thing could be used to distribute pornography, so maybe I should keep it secret for a while longer."

    Could Rob Malda have predicted that Slashdot would end up overloading web servers world-wide?

    The answer to all is "no." To mandate some kind of TIS would not only be impossible, but it would be dangerous. We can't predict the course of technology, we can only adapt to it. Even without technology, life adapts, otherwise it wouldn't currently be around. Let me put it succinctly:

    The greatest risk is not taking one at all.

  • This is really not a helpful discussion by lohen (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:19AM
  • Re:Declare it separate? by dfetter (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:22AM
  • by sulli (195030) on Friday November 10 2000, @08:24AM (#631465) Journal
    Well, if you want to spend all your time trying to get permission to do things in technology, like a developer dealing with the planning commission, vote for this idea. Of course you'll end up with another Permit Raj, and technological innovation will grind to a halt, but the bureucrats won't mind, because their jobs will be secure.

    Yuck.

  • Missing the point (Score:3)

    by loose_change (196779) on Friday November 10 2000, @08:25AM (#631466) Homepage

    I'm not declaring that I get the point, but I seem to have a different response to this article.

    It seems to me that Katz' point isn't so much to declare we should regulate and control new technologies. Instead, Katz' understated point is that given the wide-range of information exchange available on the internet, can we have more civic debate on these issues based on better mutual understanding?

    New Jerusalem, indeed.

    I like the ideal of the internet as a distributed version of the public square where ideas are exchanged. In many ways, it should be the ideal forum for discussion and consensus building on just such issues as Katz raises here. One might hope that a tech guy could talk to a farmer and each get some clue about how policies and technologies effect each other's lives, just to grab a random thought-example.

    But that isn't what happens on the net, and it isn't usually what happens in a public square. People of like mind tend to band together and reinforce their own opinions. We ghetto-ize ourselves on line (even without push technology) in similar fashions.

    Yes, there will always be the "should we, just because we can?" argument, just as there will always be the Darwinian response. The thing is -- and I think this thought lies behind much of Katz' writing -- how much we may be (culturally and materially) sacrificing our long-term survival for short-term gains?

  • Re:It is not the 21st century by geekoid (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:29AM
  • stop with the New Jerusalem bullshit by kootch (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:29AM
  • Bill Joy is not a Luddite ;) by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:31AM
  • Bablyon by geekoid (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:35AM
  • Re:National purity by ichimunki (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:40AM
  • Re:Declare it separate? by redhog (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:40AM
  • Re:stop with the New Jerusalem bullshit by theghost (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:42AM
  • Issues with Group Ethics by dmcrose (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:49AM
  • This novel was EXPLICITLY. . . by kfg (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:50AM
  • Ethical questions can never be resolved by cbogart (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:54AM
  • I only have ONE question by kfg (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:54AM
  • WorLd Is AsS by bushboy (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:58AM
  • Re:stop with the New Jerusalem bullshit by kootch (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @08:59AM
  • Re:Progress isn't predictable by theghost (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @08:59AM
  • Re:But you CANNOT predict the uses perfectly. by theghost (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:00AM
  • Re:stop with the New Jerusalem bullshit by theghost (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:07AM
  • Have some sympathy by Marios Richards (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:11AM
  • Re:My summary of this article: by DoomHaven (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:12AM
  • This is a load of crap. Corporations predict where their technologies are going to go all the time. Bell predicted many of the long-term social effects of the popularization of the telephone _long_ before it was popular. Some companies have 50, 100 or 500 year plans (although it is not so common in the West). Want some documentation? Check out the book "In the Absence of the Sacred" by Jerry Mander - and don't let the title prejudice you: it is a very well written and thought out book (although it does go a little over the top sometimes). The whole point of science is to develop models which PREDICT the future. These models are becoming more sophisticated, and more general as we learn more and more. Are you so arrogant as to think that science cannot address the economic, environmental and even societal effects of technologies? By the way, I want to reveal my bias: I am writing a paper about exactly this issue. I believe there are specific useful areas where we can predict the effects of technology. The paper is not done, and has some parts that are getting old, but if you are interested, here it is [berteig.org].
  • Re:We tried it. It didn't work. by under_score (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @09:19AM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by Rares Marian (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:29AM
  • Re:Who decides by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:30AM
  • Not Likely by StormyMonday (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @09:30AM
  • Ask your local Almighty Buck by 1337-p0z3r (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:51AM
  • short comment by billcopc (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:51AM
  • Technology by Marios Richards (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @10:16AM
  • sp - yarmulke nt by paeanblack (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @10:19AM
  • Pandora Box by sandone (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @10:36AM
  • Already covered analogy by jacoby (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @10:39AM
  • Re:In the long, sad, history of bad ideas... by mikec (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @10:59AM
  • Re:In the long, sad, history of bad ideas... by jesser (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:05AM
  • Darwin is key... by Cre8oR (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:17AM
  • Re:We tried it. It didn't work. by alprazolam (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:21AM
  • Re:In the long, sad, history of bad ideas... by Hard_Code (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @11:32AM
  • Re:Ethical questions can never be resolved by alprazolam (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:32AM
  • Re:Dragoness on Her Knees to the Rich by Taufiq (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:33AM
  • Re:Dragoness on Her Knees to the Rich by Taufiq (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:36AM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by Sodium Attack (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:46AM
  • by Sodium Attack (194559) on Friday November 10 2000, @11:48AM (#631505)
    It's an allusion to Revelation 21 [gospelcom.net]. The "new Jerusalem" has little to do with the Jerusalem we know.
  • Re:Missing the point by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @11:49AM
  • Re:If the Internet is the new Jerusalem... by Sodium Attack (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @11:53AM
  • Yes there is by wilhelm (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @11:55AM
  • Re:Of course everybody hates Katz! by xmedar (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @12:31PM
  • Re:Who decides by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @12:46PM
  • Re:Who decides by Dragoness Eclectic (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @12:52PM
  • Do you happen to be either a scientist or a philosopher of science? It is true that science tries to acheive repeatability of results. It also tries to falsify and verify claims. And it also tries to develop models which describe nature. Those models are not prescriptive, they are descriptive. But part of that descriptive nature is their ability to predict those repeatable results. Hmm. Prediction. If we couldn't predict the future (repeatable results), we would have no basis for building anything. Check out the work of Larry Laudan for some very interesting and convincing descriptions of what science really is. As a last point, it is interesting that you used the work "hypothesis" - look it up in a couple good dictionaries. No predicting, indeed!
  • Re:As long as it upholds morality I'm for it by C8H10O2 MF (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @01:11PM
  • If it can be abused, at least it's power. by Saski (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @01:19PM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by vsync64 (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @01:27PM
  • Re:As long as it upholds morality I'm for it by Draco41472 (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @01:27PM
  • Re:Progress isn't predictable by Jason Earl (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @01:49PM
  • Re:We tried it. It didn't work. by Mr. Piccolo (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @01:55PM
  • Re:Your real question.... by flatrabbit (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @01:56PM
  • Re:Progress isn't predictable by nihilogos (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @02:12PM
  • Re:Your real question.... by jbischof (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @02:19PM
  • i hope we can progress by kzadot (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @02:19PM
  • Use for the Net-Apliance by codejnki (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @02:48PM
  • The Medium Is The Message by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @03:54PM
  • Progress by Trepidity (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @04:06PM
  • Answer these questions... by marvonmars (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @04:09PM
  • Moralities by Ektanoor (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @04:50PM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by schtum (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @06:32PM
  • Re:As long as it upholds morality I'm for it by ekapus (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:01PM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by centron (Score:1) Friday November 10 2000, @09:18PM
  • Re:Dragoness on Her Knees to the Rich by Dave Emami (Score:2) Friday November 10 2000, @09:52PM
  • Get real by ins_novelhandle_here (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @12:09AM
  • debate, not dictation by loose_change (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:National purity by loose_change (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @05:16AM
  • Re:We tried it. It didn't work. by alprazolam (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @07:24AM
  • Re:What is the West by metis (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @09:11AM
  • Re:...or, The Modern Prometheus by letchhausen (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @11:44AM
  • Re:The ... anyone mentioned Gibson yet? by Kisc (Score:1) Saturday November 11 2000, @01:16PM
  • Re:Who decides by Grab (Score:2) Monday November 13 2000, @06:00AM
  • personal opinion vs. slashdot policy by Dixieland (Score:1) Wednesday November 15 2000, @07:02AM
  • Re:Realization of the reality of the internet. by Sodium Attack (Score:2) Wednesday November 15 2000, @08:52AM
  • Privacy by b4upoo (Score:1) Thursday November 16 2000, @07:00AM
(1) | 2