Slashdot Log In
Extending UCITA To Printed Books?
Posted by
Cliff
on Fri Sep 29, 2000 06:57 AM
from the stripping-away-more-of-our-consumer-rights dept.
from the stripping-away-more-of-our-consumer-rights dept.
mapmaker asks: "I recently purchased an application 'how-to' book (Inside AutoCAD Map 2000, OnWord Press) that utilizes a disturbing method of publication: the final 100 pages of the text aren't printed - they're included on the companion CD-ROM as PDF files. I'm not talking about extras or bonus material - these are integral parts of the text. The last page of the printed text simply states, 'Book Continued on Companion CD-ROM'. Leaving aside the fact that this is a dirty and underhanded method of cutting publishing costs, this is particularly disturbing because of the sticker that seals the CD jacket. It states: 'CD Enclosed. If the disc package seal is broken, the purchaser forfeits all return rights and privileges to the seller.'" Now this just does not sound right at all. Looks like I'll be avoiding books from OnWord Press in the future.
"In other words, to examine the complete text of this 'book' that I've bought, I must first agree to forfeit my legal rights as a consumer?"
I live in Virginia, the only state to have the dubious honor of passing UCITA into law. My question is this: Because some of the text of this book is contained in electronic files bundled with the printed portion, does UCITA give the weight of law to this preposterous shrink wrap "agreement"? And how does this impact existing laws pertaining to copyright, fair use, and consumers' rights?"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Extending UCITA to Printed Books?
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 135 comments
(Spill at 50!) | Index Only
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
|
2
(1)
|
2
a good question (Score:3)
I believed no.
OverLord
Re:Where is Phil K Dick when you need him? (Score:3)
No, but it is possible for a corporation to publish a book.
...phil
This will pass (Score:3)
On the other hand I can see why this type of thing would be tested in the Computer section first. I could also imagine it happening with college textbooks. Who knows, you are essentially forced to buy those if the professor chooses them, maybe half books could catch on there.
Why can't publishers give us what we want? For tech books a complete printed copy AND and searchable CD would be sweet.
resist (Score:3)
2. Take home, open CD envelope.
3. Burn 100 copies of the CD.
4. Print stickers that say "do not open the CD envelope, this copy of the CD in the envelope was provided so that you may retain your Constitutionally guaranteed right to return this book if you are unsatisfied with the contents, for a full refund"
5. Stick stickers to your CDs.
6. Sneak CDs into the bookstore, slip one CD into each copy of the book, maybe use a little edge of the sticker overlapping the CD to affix it to the inside of the cover.
7. Visit every bookstore in town, make sure every copy of the book you find has YOUR CD in it as well.
8. Sleep soundly, knowing that you are a SUPERHERO, and a Defender of Freedom and Justice in America.
9. Each time you drive past the offices of the publisher (if they're on your way to work or the grocery store or something), roll down your window, extend your fist, raise middle finger, scream "FUCK YOU! YOU FACSIST BITCHES!".
10. Spend hours reading Slasdot, posting more ideas on how to "fight the power".
Soylent Green is people!
Here's a possible solution... (Score:3)
You might want to have your publisher include something like this in the shrink-wrap license for the CD-ROM:
I'm sure your publisher's lawyers can come up with something similar that will make both your publisher and your readers happy.
Re:Coming soon.. (Score:3)
Ideas cannot be owned and the constitution makes it clear they are NOT property in article I. Clearly contrary to the constitution, the DMCA and UCITA may choose to treat these things "like" property, but that does not make them property.
Furthermore I feel "intillectual property" is often simply ideas derived from existing public knowledge. Occasionally there is a truelly original idea (such as public key crytography, or an invention like the phonograph) but most "proprietary" knowledge is simply embezzling from the pool of public knowledge. The Amazon "patent" is a wonderful example of this, as are all the new "business model" patents.
I suppose if humans innately felt they each owned ideas exclusivily we would all still be living in drafty caves today....
more than appendices (Score:3)
This last chapter covers plotting methods and controls (very important in the creation of maps!) and there is no valid reason to exclude it from the printed material.
Also, the book weighs in at a not-very-hefty 550 pages, and the list price is over $50 US, so I don't think publishing expense is a valid argument for this tactic.
Tax issues (Score:4)
Very disturbing indeed (Score:5)
Incidently, since different states appearently are all modifying UCITA in slightly different ways, the fact that some states have chosen to add consumer protections does not mean you nessisarly have them, even though you may be living in such a state. One could still have the EULA construed under a less friendly state's version of the law.
Certainly the intend of this is to strip you of your right of first sale and redistribution of the book. This is fundimentally wrong for several reasons; first, even in article I of the constitution, "copyright" as stated is both a limited right that "expires", it is neither property nor "permenant", regardless of the illegal action of our congress in the Sony Bono copyright extensions.
Altering a seal is a permenant action, and to deny further distribution or rights forever based on it seems inconsistent. Similarly, the DMCA allows for "access controls" on "copyrighted works" which remain in effect even if the copyright on a given work being so protected expires as intended!
All these efforts are clearly unconstitutional in this country and against the very notion of basic human rights, the right to communicate ideas, the right to think, things that are most basic of all.
Of course, I wonder what is to stop even a physical book from having a taped "seal" with a EULA that must be broken to open and read it?
Buyer beware... (Score:5)
The article author here appears to have bought the book over the internet, so previewing the book was not lost on him, but there are easy step to fix this: return the item, explaining exactly why you are returning it (i.e. "Don't agree to licensing terms"). Write to the book's *author* (not the publisher; authors are generally easier to get a hold of particularly) and ask why he released his book as such, and explain that it is a bad practice... it might be that the author didn't have a choice by the publisher, or was unaware of the final distribution, etc. Since the book has a limited audience (AutoCad) make sure that you post negative reviews wherever you can about the book to prevent others from making the same mistake.
Having a license on the CD, assuming that the CD has programs, is understandable. But IM(IAMAL)O, you bought the text, you have every right to use the text (including the PDF) in a format that follows from fair use. This is definitely a scary trend, and there's no way I can see it being useful save in cases where one or two chapters of a book cover something that does need licensing agreements (say, a piece of software uniquely distributed on the CD that is explained and used throughout a given chapter). The only way to fight it, as it appears to only be useful to computer topics, would be to simply outright ban books that do such, and make sure other professionals do the same, writing the various book authors at length.
Thank goodness this doesn't sound like anything ORA would try to do...
Are they PDF raster files? (Score:3)
The PDF raster images are a nightmare to convert. You have to print them and then scan them, and then start editing. And the files are so bloated that you can't easily move them around on the Net. It seems to me that the publishers are really being ugly if the PDF files are raster images, but only being cheap and lazy if the 100 pages went in as text and can be taken out as text. In the latter case, I think they'd end up losing any advantage they might think they have, due to illegal sharing of the material between interested parties, privately, over the Net.
Re:Class Books (Score:3)
As an author (of an upcoming Linux-related book), I agree with a previous poster's suggestion that you should complain to the author directly rather than to the publisher. It happens that I finally arrived at a contract with very favorable publishing terms, but I got bounced between several publishers at first, and they could have really screwed me over if they wanted to (and they do want to - if you ever wish to write a book, enlist the services of a competent contract lawyer before you sign!!). It's very possible that the author in this case didn't really have a choice, but he would probably like to hear your opinion on it, and might be able to provide a point of view you haven't considered yet.
-John
Re:Tax issues (Score:3)
I got this from a usually reliable source, but it also fits the facts as I see them: check out the prices of (say) programming books with and without CD's. The average price of the ones with CD is not 17.5% higher than the others (indicating VAT on the book). Likewise Linux books with a free copy on linux in the back - it's a CD with VAT on it, but the VAT'able value is almost nill as the contents are free - thus no increase in cost.
IMHO, IANAL, etc etc,
Mike.
I know I'm gonna get flamed for this... (Score:5)
The decision was made to put this text on the CD-ROM to reduce the overall price of the book and make it less "telephone directory" like (as it is, it will tip the scales at 1,200+ pages). These appendices were requested by people who felt that the first edition of the book assumed that the reader was able to program and understood Ohm's law. These appendices are not central to the theme of the book and are superfluous for many readers.
I feel that in this case, putting the appendices on CD-ROM was a good compromise. The information on them is not part of the overall book, but is important information for some readers. The same amount of work (and cost) was put into making the pdfs as if they were going to be pages.
The reason for going with the software copyright statement for the pdf appendices was due to feeling from the McGraw-Hill (who publishes my books) corporate lawyers that this was the most appropriate method of protecting the electronic text/files/format.
I've written eight books so far and in none of these cases, sending a partially completed manuscript is acceptable. I doubt McGraw-Hill is any different in this regard than any other publisher. Even with seasoned writers, not many publishers are willing to start the copyedit/layout process without a completed manuscript, there is just too much danger or later chapters requiring substantial changes in early chapters.
I suspect that the last 100 pages of Inside AutoCAD Map 2000 are appendices and site links that are actually very appropriate in pdf format. Anything else will get the book/author/publisher hammered on Amazon.com and other Internet resources (like /.).
The pdf of the last 100 pages was probably done for cost reasons, but before you judge the situation, let's get some facts on what is contained in the pdfs. If it is straight text, then the complaints are justified. If it is appendices with vendor/site links, then maybe consideration should be given as to whether or not this is an appropriate way for providing this information.
As the Human Torch used to say: "Flame On!"
Re:Buyer beware... (Score:3)
IMO, the problems we are having with IP and DMCA, etc, all stem from the fact that the organizations that are 'publishers' (getting one person's IP out to millions) are no long publishers, but trying to be owners of the works as well. This weakens the contribution of the original person's work, and promotes so-called mass marketing where not-as-highly-liked-but-highly-creative IP creators are shunned over highly-liked-but-not-highly-creative ones. Stephen King sees this, Smashing Pumpkins see this, the indy movie scene sees this.
IMO, the publishing companies should be forced (yes, forced, as this is in a sense, anti-trust) to remodel their practices; they should go back to being true publishers, where a guy can come along with a manuscript and $10,000 to make 10,000 copies of a book, telling the publisher that he keeps the right, and gets a majority of the profit, the publisher keeping the cost of book printed and a modest fee. The publisher can also act as the distributer, which would take a bit more of the profit from the sale. The publisher cannot own any copyright that it 'prints' unless it created it themselves. This type of system would allow all creative players an equal share in the market, and would remove the power of RIAA and MPAA like groups from controlling the market -- those books and CDs that are actually *liked* by people would be bought, not those that are artifically forced to the top.
UCITA vs. the Supreme Court (Score:3)
Bobbs-Merrill can in some ways be considered a "shrink-wrap" license case. In this case, the publisher Bobbs-Merrill had printed a novel, 'The Castaway' and had printed a notice in each book that it was not to be sold at retail for under $1. The Straus brothers, who owned and operated Macy's, sold the book at $0.89, despite the warning and were sued. The Supreme Court ruled that there was no contractual obligation between the 2 parties and copyright law did not grant the publisher control of the copies after they had been sold at wholesale. This finding is called the "first sale" doctrine.
Eventually, a modern "shrink-wrap"/UCITA vs. "first sale" case will reach the Supreme Court. Personally, I suspect "first sale" will win, though I'm not a lawyer...
And What Happens? (Score:3)
What Happens when the book is hit while still on the shelf by a CD thief. I don't know how many times I've been looking at books and their CD's have been "Liberated" from them.
How do you finish a 10 chapter book you can only get 8 chapters of, or how do you read a CD in the John. These are questions the publishers should have asked themselves.
Thanks for the heads up, I know I'll be checking the last chapter in the next books I get!
Re:Authors deserve income too (Score:5)
This is how copyrights work. They were not made to reward authors for their works; that part is only a means to the real end. The real end is to eventually enrich the public domain (this is why copyrights expire, although for human authors they only expire long after the person has died). It does this by providing authors a financial incentive, but in return for that incentive the author gives up some rights (such as control over how something is used by people who legitimately pay for it).
Corporations don't like giving up that kind of control; the sad fact is that ethics are rarely as profitable as unethical means. That's why they've been backing UCITA and the DMCA; they want to take legitimate rights away from the people all in the pursuit of The Almighty Buck. It's also why they have to be stopped; the government is supposed to exist primarily for our benefit, not theirs.
----------