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Project Gutenberg Publishes 10,000th Free eBook

Posted by CmdrTaco on Thu Oct 16, 2003 03:45 PM
from the worthwhile-endeavours dept.
AndrewRUK writes "Earlier today, Project Gutenberg's founder, Micheal Hart, announced that the project has passed the milestone of 10,000 free eBooks available, with the publication of the Magna Carta.Project Gutenberg was founded in 1971, with the aim of "[making] information, books and other materials available to the general public in forms a vast majority of the computers, programs and people can easily read, use, quote, and search." In the 32 years since the project started, over 10,000 books, ranging from the Bible to school textbooks, and from the complete works of Shakespeare to the USA's declaration of independence, have been made freely available to the public by Project Gutenberg."
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  • I guess.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by joeldg (518249) on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:47PM (#7233481)
    (http://blog.peoplesdns.com/)
    it is time to read up eh?

    I still kind of have issues with ebooks.. I mean, reading is pretty much a tactile thing for me.. I.e. I like the smell of books, I like turning pages..

    In other words, it is nice to get away from the computer sometimes and just read..

    Though, I congratulate their efforts, it is cool

    • Re:I guess.. by optime (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:04PM
    • Re:I guess.. by ichimunki (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:05PM
      • Re:I guess.. by joeldg (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:06PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I guess.. by spitefulcrow (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:07PM
    • Re:I guess.. by realfake (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:13PM
    • Re:I guess.. by 10bt (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @07:39PM
      • Re:I guess.. by ShavenYak (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @08:49AM
    • Re:I guess.. by ndogg (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @09:35PM
      • Been done by tomzyk (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @09:30AM
      • Re:I guess.. by Koatdus (Score:1) Friday October 17 2003, @11:46AM
    • Re:I guess.. by jmcgarey (Score:1) Friday October 17 2003, @08:15AM
    • Personal preference by tomzyk (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @09:11AM
      • eInk by tomzyk (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @09:19AM
    • Coming soon... by ecloud (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @12:06PM
    • Re:I guess.. by joeldg (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @03:58PM
      • Re:I guess.. by EverDense (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @09:19PM
    • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • e-reader hardware? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by smack_attack (171144) on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:47PM (#7233489)
    (http://hammeroftruth.com/)
    Are there any decent e-readers for this? I have looked around and all of them want to use some crazy proprietary format or just plain suck. I think those things could take off if there was a good one, I'm game.
  • Proofreading (Score:5, Informative)

    by Empiric (675968) * on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:47PM (#7233494)
    (http://www.neorune.com/)
    Based on someone's post earlier, I gave Distributed Proofreaders [pgdp.net] a try. It's very straightforward to get started on a couple of pages done at your leisure (especially easy for those knowing basic HTML--like Slashdot posters--think standard bold and italic tags; the only mild ramp up is footnotes), and I found their scanned book choices interesting to be reading through in the process of proofing (well-done proofing interface as well).

    If you're in the mood for browsing books, give it a try... you can find something interesting to read and do a little service for humanity at the same time.
  • 10,000 books? (Score:2, Funny)

    That's almost half the Hardy Boys series!
  • Can't be said enough... (Score:2, Redundant)

    by daeley (126313) * on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:48PM (#7233506)
    (http://www.celsius1414.com/)
    Come join the proofreaders [pgdp.net] that make Project Gutenberg possible!
  • Congratulations! (Score:2, Redundant)

    by apsmith (17989) * on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:49PM (#7233514)
    (http://www.linkedin.com/in/apsmith)
    Now why was my story on this rejected earlier today? Oh well...

    Go to Distributed Proofreaders [pgdp.net] if you'd like to help out!
  • Legal? (Score:4, Funny)

    by twoallbeefpatties (615632) <[djdreamshade] [at] [hotmail.com]> on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:49PM (#7233521)
    That's odd. What with all the extensions on copyright expirations, I didn't realize that the Bible was in the public domain.
    • Re:Legal? by JamesP (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @03:55PM
      • Re:Legal? by Happy Monkey (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @03:58PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Legal? by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:13PM
      • open translation of the Bible (was Re:Legal?) by WillAdams (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:53PM
      • Re:Legal? by westlake (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:04PM
      • Re:Legal? by dvdeug (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:12PM
        • Re:Legal? by jdavidb (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @08:39AM
      • Re:Legal? by Bob Uhl (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:16PM
        • Re:Legal? by Burb (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @03:43AM
          • Re:Legal? by Bob Uhl (Score:2) Monday October 20 2003, @01:03PM
            • Re:Legal? by dvdeug (Score:2) Monday October 20 2003, @09:40PM
          • Septuagint by Burb (Score:2) Tuesday October 21 2003, @05:32AM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Legal? by nacturation (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:15PM
    • Re:Legal? by rf0 (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:23PM
      • Re:Legal? by Elwood P Dowd (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @06:09PM
        • Re:Legal? by Nathaniel (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @05:41PM
        • Re:Legal? by juhaz (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @06:25PM
          • Re:Legal? by Elwood P Dowd (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @07:16PM
            • Re:Legal? by dvdeug (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @11:37PM
              • Re:Legal? by Elwood P Dowd (Score:1) Saturday October 18 2003, @01:54AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Legal? by beta21 (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:25PM
    • Re:Legal? by thisissilly (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:26PM
      • Re:Legal? by Experiment 626 (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:17PM
        • Re:Legal? by utopyr (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @09:37PM
    • Re:Legal? by mgg4 (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:56PM
      • Re:Legal? by chthonicdaemon (Score:2) Friday October 17 2003, @04:40AM
    • Re:Legal? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:58PM
    • Re:Legal? by gblues (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:26PM
      • Re:Legal? by Mad Marlin (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @07:27PM
        • Re:Legal? by dvdeug (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @10:21PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Legal? by welshsocialist (Score:1) Sunday October 19 2003, @03:59AM
    • Re:Legal? by cfuse (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @06:17PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Still (Score:2)

    by Doomrat (615771) on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:51PM (#7233543)
    (http://waz6.net/)
    I still think his best work was in Short Circuit.
    • Re:Still by ReidMaynard (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @03:54PM
    • Re:Still by inertia@yahoo.com (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:11PM
    • Re:Still by pizza_milkshake (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:59PM
    • Re:Still by Nordberg (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @09:22PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Project Gutenberg? (Score:2)

    by Mike Hawk (687615) on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:54PM (#7233574)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday April 27 2005, @11:26AM)
    I thought a place with thousands of free books was called a "library". My bad.
  • Slashdotted (Score:2)

    by ajs (35943) <ajs.ajs@com> on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:58PM (#7233621)
    (http://www.ajs.com/~ajs/)
    The site is slashdotted, could someone post the books here, please? ;-)
    • Re:Slashdotted by TopShelf (Score:2) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:22PM
      • Re:Slashdotted by debrastorr (Score:1) Friday October 17 2003, @04:13AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • errata (Score:1)

    by hexatron (683320) on Thursday October 16 2003, @03:58PM (#7233625)
    (http://www.hexatron.com/)
    The last line of chapter 4 of Scaramouche is a fragment from the next chapter. It's been festering there for four years. Spoiler: Scaramouche has the same dumb plot element as Star Wars, and signals it just as far in advance. The lead is more 'with it' than hapless Luke, but the leadette is much less so than Princess CrullerHead. Is the spoiler a) He's your father, b) She's your sister, c)=a+b, or d) She's your father's sister.
    • Re:errata by dq5 studios (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @05:12PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by MisanthropicProggram (597526) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:00PM (#7233638)
    See also:
    www.literature.org/
    www.online-literature.com
    These folks also publish public domain stuff on the web.
    It's sad though, there could be more, but because of the Sony Bono law, stuff that should be in the public domain by nowis still owned by the author's off-spring or estate.
  • What happens when Project Gutenberg has finally digitally republished all known literary works in the English language that were first published on or before 1922? Where does PG go once it hits the wall, which thanks to pgdp.net might even come within my lifetime?

  • $1 Trillion? (Score:2)

    by Jason1729 (561790) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:01PM (#7233655)
    Have they made any progress on their other goal? They wanted to collect a $1 donation for each book from each of the 100 million people they expected to read it, so when they reached the 10,000 book milestone, they'd have raised $1 trillion.

    Jason
    ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
    • Re:$1 Trillion? by clonebarkins (Score:3) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:22PM
    • Re:$1 Trillion? by InfiniteWisdom (Score:1) Thursday October 16 2003, @04:51PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by The Panther! (448321) <panther.austin@rr@com> on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:10PM (#7233745)
    (http://www.flaredev.com/)
    I haven't met anyone who has used the service. For being a fairly large database of reading material, is it only capable of archiving things so old that they have expired copyrights, or specifically released material? If so, you can hardly expect it to become a cultural phenomenon, what with copyrights extending to a million years after all progeny of the author are dead... Which is a shame, because on the merits of recording things for the public domain alone, it's worthwhile, but if people don't use it, what's the true value?

    Anyone here regularly read from Project G? What did you read?

  • YOU CAN HELP!!! (Score:2)

    by clonebarkins (470547) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:26PM (#7233897)

    Go to Distributed Proofreaders [pgdp.net] to help out! The are a distributed effort to scan, OCR, proof, and post books to Project Gutenberg.

  • [ibiblio.org]
    If anyone who has borrowed a sum of money from Jews dies before

    the debt has been repaid, his heir shall pay no interest on the debt
    for so long as he remains under age, irrespective of whom he holds his
    lands. If such a debt falls into the hands of the Crown, it will take
    nothing except the principal sum specified in the bond.
    What a different, horrible world! This passage reminded me that in this time the largest corporation in Europe, the Roman Church, was desperately afraid of economic activity that they feared (rightly!) could undermine their power. They knew that if merchants got more powerful and cities became wealthy, then their international monopoly on buildings and land would be challenged. Basically, no Christians were to be allowed to practice usury, or the accumulation of capital through lending. So they made it permissible for European Jews to practice usury (hence the 'money lender' stereotypes) because, well,when it came down to it, back then they figured Jewish people were barely human and could probably be killed and burned and their assets seized at will.
  • by Chris Brewer (66818) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:49PM (#7234132)
    (Last Journal: Thursday January 22 2004, @05:30PM)
    The backlog must be clearing out now...

    1215-10-15 dawneth Magna Carta Published (yro, news) (accepted)

    CmdrTaco must be pleased to get this one out of the queue.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Just Imagine! (Score:5, Funny)

    by El (94934) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:55PM (#7234192)
    You mean, the U.S. Constitution has been freely available on the Internet all this time, and still Ashcroft hasn't bothered to read it?
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by the-matt-mobile (621817) on Thursday October 16 2003, @05:04PM (#7234285)
    10,000 eBooks! That, my friends, returns us to the original meaning of a Beowulf cluster*!


    * - Yes, yes - I know. Terrible joke. We all wish we could filter out all comments that had "Beowulf", "In other news", and "In Soviet Russia" in the text, but alas...
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • congrats (Score:1)

    by TLouden (677335) on Thursday October 16 2003, @05:26PM (#7234489)
    thats a good acomplishment from a good group
  • by zealotasd (700001) on Thursday October 16 2003, @05:44PM (#7234619)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday September 17 2003, @07:28PM)

    I have ascertained that Project Gutenberg has made some verry grave mistakes in their alleged duplicate of the "Constitution of the United States of America." Project Gutenberg's duplicate of the "Unanimous Declaration of Indepenance of July 4, 1776" appears to be correct. Yet, let me get to the truth in their alleged duplicate unamended "Constitution of the United States of America." I searched the Project Gutenberg archive for the the titular commercial charter for these united States of America and discovered a modern, (un?)intentionaly misleading, and incorrect entry. There are some discrepancies that are noticable. Project Gutenberg claims they are providing the "Constitution of the United States of America" as NOT AMMENDED and NOT REVISED, yet this is disputed because not until the alleged "14th Ammendment" was there ever spoken in the alleged "Constitution..." a "United States" in any RECEIVERSHIP for PUBLIC DEBTS. As provided duplicate from Project Gutenberg's archive,

    BlockQuote EvidenceOf14thAmendment { "To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, Dockyards, and other needful Buildings;--And" }

    The previous quoted text is substance of the alleged "14th Amendment"! It is of nature defining a "United States" limited to jurisdiction of 10 square miles! This was known as the "Act of 1871", to create a "Government for the District of Columbia" of which to emancipate (aka Transfer of Title of Ownership) the "slaves" into ownership by an alleged "United States" as secured property and further provides for the naturalization and granted federal citizenship as well as granted privileges of the alleged "United States" to own property outside its lawful jurisdiction of 10 square miles and expand its "possesions". According to law, if an attempt is to be made to FREE a slave (aka Bondservant) then a process to manumit must ensue. According to Webster's Dictionary and Black's Book of Law, as well as some sources on Dictionary.com [dictionary.com], manumit is the "dissolve of Title of Ownership" and emancipation is the "transfer of Title of Ownership". Yet, who is to argue a slave's freedom from an oppressive Master and unto a new Master that is more lenient or kind (aka United States)? In support of my testimony, I will provide evidence in the United States Code, that the United States spoken of in the 14th Amendment is a corporation! According to USC Title 27, Section 3002 [cornell.edu],


    (15)
    ''United States'' means -
    (A)
    a Federal corporation;


    Continuing my testimony and perusing to Article Six, there is more evidence that Project Gutenberg's claim of providing "Constitution..." as unamended,

    BlockQuoth MoreEvidenceOfAmendment { "All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
    " }

    If anyone wants to read all the true and correct history of the colonies as they re-organized into united States, the beginning of the federal ussurpation, the Continental Congress, and the creation of the alleged "United States" federal corporation withou

  • by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) on Thursday October 16 2003, @06:02PM (#7234747)
    (Last Journal: Monday January 06 2003, @10:36PM)
    ...they were still throwing away the formatting of the text to force it into crude 80 column ASCII. Are they still doing that? At the time they started the project I don't think there wasn't much excuse for not using some kind of markup and nowadays there's absolutely no excuse.

    Of course I'll now get the expected slew of people telling me that the formatting can all be reconstructed. It cannot. There is no unambiguous way to recover reasonable formatting of these texts to be viewed in any other format other than 80 columns. For a while I tried reading Gutenberg books on my Palm but the spurious line breaks everywhere drove me crazy, even after doing quite a bit of scripting to make a best guess at the correct format.

    When authors write it's not just the letters that counts. Some of that writing effort goes into formatting and you can't just discard it. It's depressing thinking how much work has gone into removing crucial information from 10,000 of the world's texts.

  • Books warez... (Score:2)

    by SharpFang (651121) on Thursday October 16 2003, @06:08PM (#7234793)
    (http://sharpy.xox.pl/ | Last Journal: Wednesday September 14 2005, @02:12PM)
    Project Gutenberg is good and I've read quite a few decent works from them, but their problem is... that they are legal. And as such they just don't have many of the books I could find in a library (or couldn't because they were just borrowed by someone else). I found most of the titles I wanted to read on P2P though. All of Pratchett, whole Zelazny's Amber, some "classics" like LOTR (completely unreachable in library, and bookstores only sell a new hard cover edition that costs a fortune), Neuromancer, all of Stanislaw Lem and many more. And of course quite a few books on computers, programming etc. O'Reilly's mostly,]
    Yeah, it's copyrighted. So if I erase the files from my harddrive after I read them, wouldn't this be equal to borrowing them from library?
  • How can I listen to them on the go?
  • -1, Redundant (Score:2)

    by onomatomania (598947) on Thursday October 16 2003, @06:19PM (#7234903)
    My, how many people rushed to provide a link to the Distributed Proofreading site. Next time, could you all try maybe reading the comments first? There must be at least 10 posts cheerfully urging one to try out the site, as if no one else had mentioned it yet. That's great and all, but how about we just mod up whoever was first and mod down the rest. This is truly what the "Redundant" moderation option is for.

  • by peacetrain (649668) on Thursday October 16 2003, @06:53PM (#7235265)
    First gain the conquest, then reward the toil. Ironically, I was just reading Pope's Iliad translation before popping onto /. Have been wanting to read it for years, but couldn't find it anywhere in print - so I nearly jizzed when I found it on Gutenberg.
  • How appropriate... (Score:1)

    by adam872 (652411) on Thursday October 16 2003, @07:19PM (#7235477)
    ...that such an important document in the history of human civiization is #10000. Lovers of freedom and more importantly those who would take it away (are you listening John Ashcroft?) should take the time to read this. For my money, it forms the basis of the common law system that we take for granted in the west today.
  • by Rotten168 (104565) on Thursday October 16 2003, @07:27PM (#7235547)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Yes... with your help Steve Guttenberg will be a star once again! Give before it hurts!
  • plain ASCII makes no sense (Score:1, Redundant)

    by CoughDropAddict (40792) on Thursday October 16 2003, @07:46PM (#7235692)
    As with the last story about project Gutenberg, I have the same comment. I love the philosophy of project Gutenberg, but the fact that they continue to use plain text as the canonical formatting makes the collection seriously less useful. Using XML would give only advantages.

    What advantages? Advantages like indicating what words are actually part of a title, so that a reader could display titles in large print and provide a table of contents. Advantages like having real bold, italic, and underline. Advantages like being able to handle characters not in ASCII. Advantages like allowing a reader to break lines however makes most sense for that situation (for example, handhelds are going to have shorter lines than a large monitor). The list goes on.

    Their argument for continuing to favor ASCII [gutenberg.net] is to support the widest possible usability, now and in the future, since markup languages can come and go. This doesn't stand up to scrutiny though, for the simple reason that XML contains strictly more information than plain text. XML can be flawlessly converted to plain text by a program, but the opposite is not true: plain text cannot be converted to XML. Was that line break the end of a stanza, or simply a line of a paragraph? Is that single line in all-caps a title or is it a paragraph of shouting? This information simply cannot be extracted from plain text. Not to mention the problem of characters that aren't in ASCII.

    Suppose that XML is just a fad, that it's a horrible joke being perpetuated by hordes of clueless professionals who love buzzwards. Suppose no one uses XML in 10 years. Even if this is true XML is still a better choice than plain text because XML has enough information to automatically convert the books into whatever superior format emerges in the future. Plain text does not.
  • Magna Carta (Score:1)

    by Ignominious Poltroon (654513) on Thursday October 16 2003, @08:58PM (#7236197)
    Magna Carta Visa Carta Master Charga
  • a great read! (Score:1)

    by hendrix69 (683997) on Thursday October 16 2003, @11:38PM (#7237153)
    Search the Magna Carta for "jew".
  • by dpbsmith (263124) on Friday October 17 2003, @07:27AM (#7238418)
    (http://www.dpbsmith.com/)
    For better or for worse--IMHO mostly for better--all of the characteristics of PG have been very carefully thought out and articulated. Things such as the emphasis on "plain vanilla ASCII text" are not simply historical accident, but a very conscious decision. PG has already outlived several changes in fashion on text formatting. (Can you imagine what would happened if they had adopted, say, Wordstar formatting? Or even TROFF?)

    It is a strikingly original project. And it has some quasi-political overtones. Hart has some well-articulated reasons why he didn't and doesn't believe that, say, the Library of Congress will ever get around to systematically digitizing books.

    With approimately 20,000 books online, it is no longer a sarcasm to call the Internet a library, even if it is still far less rich than a small-town public library. Half of those are Project Gutenberg's.
  • Incidentally, there is a Project Gutenberg Australia [gutenberg.net.au] which has quite a few works online which are still under copyright in the United States but not in Australia. Those seeking works more recent than 1923 or so might find it worthwhile taking a look there.

    Keep in mind that if you don't reside in Australia you would be committing copyright infringement if you were to download anything from that site that is still under copyright in your country of residence.

    Go to their site to see what they have, or use the invaluable U. Penn online books page [upenn.edu] to search for them.
  • Distribution (Score:1)

    by clckwrkMalChick (592449) on Friday October 17 2003, @09:13AM (#7239380)
    Maybe they should take something like BitTorrent to start distributing these books. The load on those http and ftp servers would probably be dramatically dropped. It might also be good proof to naysayers that peer to peer networks have a legitimate purpose.

  • Re:errata (Score:2, Informative)

    by jonathan_ingram (30440) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:08PM (#7233713)
    (http://www.pgdp.net/)
    The scans for all of the books proofed through Distributed Proofreaders are online. Also, if you find errors in a PG book, you're very welcome to submit corrections to it.
    [ Parent ]
  • by optime (665133) on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:16PM (#7233794)
    s/profile/brain/g
    [ Parent ]
  • Has anyone yet mentioned that you can help out by joining the distributed proofreaders project out help out? What's the link?

    Yes [slashdot.org], they [slashdot.org] have [slashdot.org].

    [ Parent ]
  • by greenhide (597777) <jordanslashdot&cvilleweekly,com> on Thursday October 16 2003, @04:56PM (#7234204)
    Right, because as I read it it's an archive for marxist and leftist articles.

    Kinda how you wouldn't expect to find a copy of The Communist Manifesto on Rush Limbaugh's website -- or Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, for that matter. Both are books that don't fall into Rush Limbaughs sphere of interest.

    Centralized communism didn't turn out the way that Marx envisioned; that doesn't make some of the social criticism or observations from the left any less valid. Most of the advances in labor laws that exist today -- the 40 hour work week, anti-child labor laws, safety laws -- were brought about by protests and agitations from unions, back when unions were strongly leftist and many of the leaders were reading works by Marx and Engels.

    Personally, I think it's a shame that we don't teach the history of the labor movement in the United States, or about the huge debt in improved living conditions that we owe to it. Most of the people who were alive during the first labor uprisings are long dead. With the loss of manufactoring jobs, and the corporatization of union leaders, the legacy of the labor movement is dying out, and it seems likely that in just a few decades only a few history scholars will know or remember anything about it.
    [ Parent ]
  • by dvdeug (5033) <dvdeug&email,ro> on Thursday October 16 2003, @05:41PM (#7234604)
    a photograph of a public-domain painting can be copyrighted, even though it may be visually indistinguishable from another one that has been released to public domain.

    Nope. Some company sued Corel over including pictures it had made of famous paintings in their image collections. The court ruled that making a copy of an existing work doesn't give a new copyright, no matter how hard it is. In the US, at least, creative effort is required for a new copyright.
    [ Parent ]
  • by suitti (447395) on Thursday October 16 2003, @05:45PM (#7234625)
    (http://www.uitti.net/stephen/)
    There is. Someone has to want to scan the document, run OCR, and edit it. It's pretty time consuming. I know I wouldn't do that for the Learned Elders. But, perhaps there is someone who would.
    [ Parent ]
  • by dvdeug (5033) <dvdeug&email,ro> on Thursday October 16 2003, @05:57PM (#7234722)
    I mean, "Awful Disclosures of Maria Monk" - an thoroughly discredited[1,2,3] bit of anti-Catholic propoganda - is included on the "gold" list.

    We're a library; our job is not to pretty up the past, it's to record. We noted on our copy that it was propoganda, and left it at that. If you are interested in the history of anti-Catholism in the US, that is an important work to read.

    Why not just include ""The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion"[4] as well?

    Because we haven't found a clearable copy yet? That work had indirectly affected everyone on the planet; it's an important historical document, and so it should be preserved, if only so people can know what racist lieing screeds sound like so they can recognize it when the next politician or disgruntled psycho starts reciting them.
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