Yahoo Buying Inktomi

soldack writes "Byte And Switch has a story about Yahoo buying Inktomi. I imagine they will stop using Google. What does this mean for both Google and Yahoo? How much of Google's traffic came from Yahoo? How much is going to come from AOL using Google?" markpapadakis adds a link to CNET's story on same.

interesting

How large is Inktomi, and how well does it index the pages?

I'm Buying Beer

Which is approximately as news-worthy.

Re:I'm Buying Beer

Which is approximately as news-worthy.

Yahoo is one of Google's biggest customers--not only in the somewhat significant "hits" catagory, but the more important "licensing" catagory. Yahoo pays Google real cash--and this helps Google.

However, Yahoo is also one of Google's biggest customers. Eventually this was going to come to and end--and it just did IMO.

I'm sure many if not most of people looking to search will head to Google, but the Yahoo partnership was/is a boon for Google.

To me, Yahoo just called for a fight.

Yahoo's relevance

Does Yahoo still control a majority of users? I would have expected that MSN would have the greatest portal penetration simply by being the default home-page under windows, and most people I know have been using Google for their searching for a couple of years now (And I mean non-technical users)...Is Yahoo even that relevant any more?

Re:Yahoo's relevance

I suspect Yahoo is coasting on its prior popularity. In the early days Yahoo was "it." Everyone recommended Yahoo. It's been a couple years since I've heard anyone recommend Yahoo. It's all Google now. Free e-mail? Yes. Web portal? No.

When Yahoo infused its front page with several hundred links it took a pummeling to the head. When it started charging to add businesses to its link directory it knocked itself out.

Well...

Time to stop using Yahoo I guess...

I haven't used anything but Google in a while...even got Searchling (search MacUpdate...or Google for it) to have Google search in my OS X menu bar.

If Yahoo stops using Google, I just won't have any reason to go there anymore. Google is the de facto standard now.

okay ...

Here's what I don't get, back when Yahoo (tm) wanted to expand its search horizan it used inktomi, then moved to altavista, then to google. If inktomi was so wonderful then why on earth was superceded?

Altavista made it big with babelfish (it's quite possibly the only translator I use). Google made it big with speed, pdf to html (plus pdf searches), cached pages, etc etc.

Seems to me yahoo is more of a "portal" loosely than a search engine anymore, but I can't remember the last time I heard anyone say "I found [insert whatever] on inktomi" at least not in the last 6 years.

My take, google will be fine, I can't begin to name the number of computers I see with google.com as their homepage (more than slashdot).

Inktomi isn't a database (really)

Inktomi gave up their general full-Web search years ago, in favor of selling embedded search services / software to Web site owners. If you look at their site, they also promote their expertise in the second-ickiest of Internet businesses: search engine placement. Yahoo has probably decided that the Inktomi search software is the best available for outright purchase, especially with their ad-placement programs in place.

Impact??

Impact on google traffic? Que?

Is anybody still using Yahoo then? In internet time Yahoo is almost a dinosaur, Google is the warm blooded animal that has almost overtaken the whole world.

An advice to Yahoo: do something!! Don't just sit there being a website with pretty links, that doesn't cut it anymore these days...

The bizarre thing is

that yahoo used to use Inktomi before they bought google.

motivation?

does anyone else think yahoo made this move because google has become a bit more of a portal of late, i.e. google news? there is no doubt google has the superior search technology, but i think yahoo is a little upset that google seems to be trying to be more than 'just search'.

it'll be interesting to see if any overt enmity develops between these two stanford-born businesses....

Search Engine vs Portal

I worship the Google-god, but I seldom use Yahoo for anything. Yahoo is a big ugly portal. Even if it uses Google, or Inktomi, or whatever, why would I use that when I can just go to Google's site and gain access to a search engine without a big ugly portal site?

I think this ends up being just about as pointless as the relaunch of HotBot... which was pretty pointless. ;)

I use to like Yahoo.

But lately, they have gotten desprate (with the fall out of the Internet advertising market). Annoying Flash ads and Popus are all over Yahoo. They even added banners to Yahoo IM (and some of them are HUGE).

Long live banner free Google!

This won't make Yahoo stop using Google

Google's pagerank algorithm suite is unmatched for searches "in the wild". It uses links between pages to work out search relevance. However, that algorithm is totally inappropriate for providing search within Yahoo's own categorised database; Inktomi's engine is precisely suited for such a task. Yahoo has been using Google and Inktomi's search tech for external and internal searches, respectively, for a while now. I see no reason for Yahoo's buyout to change this. I imagine Yahoo would buy Google too, if it could.

Ideas

Inktomi's current customers [inktomi.com]

Yahoo would be well-served building a cross-reference ranking from Google + Inktomi's results. Most of my searches are quite pointed anyway though, so I'm not sure how this could be improved.

Go try the Hotbot [hotbot.com] or MSN [msn.com] searches yerself. This may well be the future rankings on Yahoo results.

As a trial, I searched for "Oklahoma Dry Spell" and although there was one coinciding match in the top 2, the rest were completely different. It seems Inktomi is a bit more relaxed for inclusions. (14,888 vs Yahoo's 12,800).

For one of the myriad of search engine reviews comparing (roughly) Inktomi and Yahoo/Google, see this page [searchenginewatch.com]

mug

Personally, I would rather know...

... when Google is going to start offering Instant Messenger services and web-based email. I love Google for anything search related, and wouldn't mind staying with Google for the other online services I require. On the day Google offers email and IM services, I will quit using Yahoo completely.

Until then, yes, I do "Yahoo".

Yahoo have missed the point slightly.

I use google not because it gives better results but because i really like the adfree slick interface. Google is user oriented and hasnt fallen into factored searches yet. I think Yahoo needs to get back to basics again and focus on users needs. There are much left to do in search engines left and advertising is not what people using them are after.

Google is cool

When it comes down to it, the company's who "Get it" will be the ones that succeed. No one wants their search engine to be throwing 3.6 pop-ups per second at them. Google will (hopefully) prosper because it does things the "right" way.

I guess there have been companies that "get it" that failed... but that's usually due to some other dumb business practice.

Before Google..

I thought Yahoo used Inktomi. I must say, though, I never use Yahoo to search, even though they do use Google, because the features aren't as good as going straight to Google. I only use Yahoo for a free email box I don't mind being loading with spam and to check news.

The crowd goes mild

"Inktomi? What's that???"

5 years from now people will be saying "Yahoo!? What's that???"

Yahoo has money?

"The transaction reflects an aggregate purchase price of approximately $235 million..."

Where the hell did Yahoo come up with $235 million in cash?

No biggie for Google.

Yahoo needs Google more than Google needs Yahoo. Google is one of the few sites on the internet that could go subscription only and still do very well long term. If Yahoo goes subscription for all of its services, people will just move on to another portal. Sure I love that Google is free, but considering how useful Google is I would certainly pay say $19 or more a year for its services. In fact I couldn't imagine an Internet without Google, I'm too reliant on it to go without it. I've tried some of the newer search engines, but really none of them are even close to being as accurate as Google. I'd rather go back to surfing the web with Mosaic than give up Google.

Does this mean the return of cache engines??

Recently Inktomi bowed out of the cache server business. They cited a number of reasons including considerably reduced revenues from cache software business... but I can't help but wonder if this really was the case of if Inktomi's core competency wasn't search engines. I hope that Yahoo considers reviving the Inktomi cache server systems.

Who got rich?

So, did anyone get rich off of this? I can't tell--it says they got bought for a pretty good sum, but then it said "The transaction reflects an aggregate purchase price of approximately $235 million, adjusted for Inktomi's expected cash balance net of debt, as of December 31, 2002."

I know a guy at Inktomi. I just want to know if he gets to buy dinner next time or not. :)

Content Distribution

AOL teamed up with Inktomi [com.com] in early 2000 to go head-to-head vs. Akamai [com.com] in the content distribution business. So this might be a bit more than just search engine stuff.

It's A Woooonderful Search Engine...

I went to the Inktomi site, asked it to search it's own site for McFarland, Alberg, 37, which should find 1 or 2 pages at the Alberg 37 (sailboat web site), or nothing if it was a real Inktomi 'internal' search.

It gave me back ten totally irrelevant, unconnected hits.

Not so hot, EH ?

The reason they bought Inktomi

The reason why they bought Inktomi, is because of the revenue that can make from it.

Inktomi sells inclusion [inktomi.com] in their results to paying customers. Many results that you normally click on in MSN or other Inktomi distribution partners cost money to the advertiser (about 10 cents each click and up).

To be fair to Inktomi, while they charge for inclusion, your site is still ranked for relevance, so there is no guarantee that your paid links will filter to the top of a search. This is all a Cost-per-Click (CPC) model, or a one time fee for inclusion over a set period of time.

How does this affect Google?
Remember that Google makes their money from search distribution and their sponsored listings. In the short term, it hurts Google a little bit, because they won't be getting paid from Yahoo for that distribution, if Yahoo decides not to use Google in the future. In the long term it does not matter much, because Google's long term revenue model/strategy is the Sponsored Listings (which are being shown at AOL and a variety of their partners [google.com]), which Yahoo was not displaying at all. So even if Yahoo were sending 1 billion searches over to Google, none of those are monetized at all.

How will this affect Yahoo?
Over the long term, Yahoo will make more money from this deal, than by using Google's results, because many of the clickthrough's in their standard search (again.. if they use Inktomi instead of Google for that), will provide some CPC revenue for them. They basically want to monetize the standard search results, and the Inktomi acquisition will help them to do that.

Continuing the pattern

Search engines are being bought up left and right, and the price keeps going up.

Teoma [teoma.com] bought by Ask Jeeves ($4M).

Wisenut [wisenut.com] bought by Looksmart ($9M).

Inktomi [inktomi.com] bought by Yahoo ($235M).

Ask Jeeves realized its search technology didn't work, and bought Teoma. Looksmart, now a "search placement" provider, realized no one would look at its commercial listings if they didn't give users some non-commercial search content as well. Yahoo seems to have come to the same conclusion, after farming out to google, etc. If they want to make revenue, they seem to have realized that they have to invest in some original technology.

Great News for me

wow, for once I made a good investment decision. I bought 500 shares of Inktomi for .35/each just over a month ago. that rocks.

It's a good thing(TM)

Google says they have only summarized about 5% of the entire internet in their google search engine. Yahoo, I imagine, will be able to capitalize on spidering the internet to summarize some of the "other" websites google either failed or selectivly decided not to scan. All this means is two parallel searches from google.com and yahoo.com *should* reveal different results now. On a second thought, did I remember hearing about google.com beginning a new out-reach program, in SETI-like execution, for computers with installed googleware to help google by using the idle CPU and idle internet connection to spider through parts of the internet google doesn't have the resources to accomplish? I don't know where I heard that, maybe here on slashdot.org. I think even if a company had NO resources, they would be able to convince people to install internet_spiderware to contribute to a search engine. They already exist in a different methodology; they are called gnutella and kazzaa. Come to think about it, this sits well with that new music-lyric identification software on slashdot just a little ways away; imagine looking for a song with a specific occurence of lyrics [slashdot.org], and gnutella searches through all its user's music for that string! Then whenever the occasion comes as either a funeral, divorce, or what-have-you, we can all search through music that may meet the theme of the event. That would realy help out beginning and professional disk jockies and especially since a feat can be accomplished using opensource software. I smell 1)innovation, 2)implementation, and 3)profit!

Uhhh.... verity just bought Inktomi.

I don't get it. Verity (another search engine company) bought inktomi [bizjournals.com] like two weeks ago. What gives?

psxndc

How much traffic?

Well, in my case Yahoo's Google results give me about 11% of my traffic, with MSN (i.e. Inktomi at 5%).

Hunh!

Am I the only one for whom search engine wars feel charmingly retro? How 90's!

History ...

One lasting contribution Inktomi made
was validating Networks of Workstations
in a commercial context. Remember, at the
time they started, the chief competition
was (DEC-era) AltaVista, which used
the search engine as an example application
for multi-way SMP boxes. Today, you don't
see >2-way SMP used in massive deployments
of applications that are easy to parallelize,
but back when Inktomi started NoW's were novel.

not surprising

Google is rapidly making inroads into Yahoo's core business, besides search they now have a news portal, their shopping site is up and running (www.froogle.com) no doubt soon they will launch a community of sorts. Contrary to Yahoo their business models are well thought out and non-intrusive from an end users perspective. In short, they rock and Yahoo doesn't and the more the two are seen side by side the more clear that is. In Yahoos eyes google is a very large threat.

Crazy Theory?

If you don't understand the way yahoo stock trades, this will seem completely crazy to you.

Yahoo and other dot-coms (ebay and amazon) are more like ponzi schemes than investments - in the tradition sense of investments.

I think that one reason yahoo is buying inktomi, is so yahoo will have an excuse for missing earning estimates.

Yahoo's present valuation is entirely unjustified. Yahoo has to make investors look towards 2004, instead of 2003.

Yahoo hasn't learned...

Google is beating them soundly in the search engine game. Yahoo hasn't learned keeping it simple is the way to go. Not barraging your visitors with banner spam and ads.

I myself have quit going to yahoo a couple years ago. I can't remember that last time I used a search engine besides google.

$$$ for Apple?

If I remember correctly, Apple invested a whole bunch of money in Inktomi a while back. Does anyone remember if they cashed out already?

Get Out of Your Caves!

Some things to consider:

Yahoo! pulls in $1B/year in revenue

Yahoo! is profitable

Yahoo! is debt free

Yahoo! has almost $1B in cash

Yahoo! is still growing like crazy

Google rocks, but search technology (crawling, indexing, etc.) is useful for much more than just indexing the web. Owning and innovating upon such an asset totally makes sense. Especially at fire sale prices ($235M is 2% of Yahoo!'s market cap and I'll bet this is an all stock deal).

Seems like an aweful lot of uninformed opinions out there. Get some data and then post.

Does anyone know what the founders are doing?

Inktomi's founders, Paul Gauthier and Eric Brewer were the grad student/professor team that coined the original idea behind the company. Gauthier should be around 29-30 years old now, and I think he sold out near the top of the bubble or sometime after that. He's still in Fortune's "40 richest Americans under 40" list. I think Brewer is still with the company, but what is Gauthier doing? Does anybody know?

Last Post!

This is where the bloodthirsty license agreement is supposed to go,
explaining that Interactive Easyflow is a copyrighted package licensed for
use by a single person, and sternly warning you not to pirate copies of it
and explaining, in detail, the gory consequences if you do.
We know that you are an honest person, and are not going to go around
pirating copies of Interactive Easyflow; this is just as well with us since
we worked hard to perfect it and selling copies of it is our only method of
making anything out of all the hard work.
If, on the other hand, you are one of those few people who do go
around pirating copies of software you probably aren't going to pay much
attention to a license agreement, bloodthirsty or not. Just keep your doors
locked and look out for the HavenTree attack shark.
-- License Agreement for Interactive Easyflow

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

Re:No Inktomi search engine

So if they don't do searching any more, what DO they do? And why are Yahoo (!) so willing to buy them? Blah!

Re:If only ./ would use google...

I swear I've seen /. use Google. I seem to recall doing a search once and being very annoyed because I was redirected to Google results. I wanted to find a week-old article and Google typically refreshes its data only once a month for any given site.

Am I dreaming? Hasn't Slashdot used Google on occassion? Perhaps when its in-house engine was experiencing trouble?

Re:No Inktomi search engine

No, they sold their "enterprise search business". Software companies use to set up a search "behind the firewall" for their own internal searches. This has nothing to do with Inktomi web search.

In fact, just the opposite is true - Inktomi is divesting themselves of virtually everything but their web search business. And perhaps now we see why: so Yahoo could get them without the extra crap they didn't want.

MOD PARENT DOWN -1 Overrated

Parent note is disinformative.

What was sold was the enterprise search software tool, not the general search engine database.

Re:Pah

I don't think google will notice this that much.

Google will definately see the hits drop. Yahoo is one of the largest search engines and portal systems out there. However with new features like the Froogle engine coming out Google will be on solid foundation.

Reference Links:
froogle.google.com [google.com] - Search most online shopping cart systems
google.com [google.com] - Expansive search engine and web archive
yahoo.com [yahoo.com] - A site that began as a search engine based on human rating, now is a megaportal for all things internet.

Re:This might not have the impact we think.

Verity bought out the "enterprise search" technology... which has little to do with the Internet, it's just a piece of server software.

What's left for Yahoo! to get is Inktomi's Internet products, including the search engine itself, the brand image and domain name that comes with it, and the ad placement structure that Inktomi had arranged.

The search engine doesn't seem of particular value to Yahoo since they already have Google for that, but they do get Inktomi's already running pay-for-search-results program that they can use all of the the Yahoo universe now.

Re:Pah

Not really.. Yahoo searches have as many hits here in the US as Google's searches and MSN searches (all three powerered by google).. so, if yahoo's traffic is taken away, theoreatically, one third of google's hits from the US should be taken away. this is, of course, more or less for other countries.