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Boycott of Music Industry's Hacker Challenge Urged
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Fri Sep 15, 2000 07:44 AM
from the thats-why-we-didnt-post-it dept.
from the thats-why-we-didnt-post-it dept.
phu170n writes "Don Marti, technical editor for the Linux Journal, has called for a boycott of the hacker challenge recently announced by the music industry's SDMI collective. Looks like principle can be worth something (more than $10,000, at least) these days."
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Boycott of Music Industry's Hacker Challenge Urged
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All watermarks are detectable (Score:3)
If all SDMI wanted to do was mark a piece as authentic, every piece would have the same mark and there wouldn't be much incentive to break it. "Heh, this POS is by Britney Spears. I know because it's watermarked." "Couldn't you tell that by tinny, teenage voice singing about her life ending because her teenage boyfriend dissed her." "Ummmm..."
But authenticity marking isn't what they're after. SDMI is looking for encryption and user identification. This means each unit would get a different watermark. Breaking it is then a simple matter of buying 5 copies and doing a binary diff of the output of "mpg123 -s britney.mp3 > tempfile". Build a bogus watermarked file by pulling the first byte from file one, the second from file two,
Am I in trouble now?
Re:Prize money isn't guaranteed (Score:5)
I didn't catch that-- good point.
Frankly, if our software engineering skills are worth only $10k to them, they obviously don't need this too much.
I can just picture a bunch of arrogant marketting types sitting together:
And just think, people like these gave $5 million to the vice president last night...
Re:This is what we wanted, right? (Score:3)
As usual it is a matter of control and short-sightedness. The record corps figure that the old stuff that just a few people want can't generate enough revenue to make having it available worthwhile. And they are right when you look at current distribution models, but on the net they can offer a subscription service where that old Skip James tune just takes up a few megabytes on a server and doesn't require pressing, shipping, etc. That way they make money from the millions of vapid Britteny Spears fans as well as the fans of older/obscure artists. Hey RIAA, that is more money, not less.
Hypocrites (Score:3)
So hack this puppy all you want, just don't publish what you find until after it has been released and is widely used
Contest Illegal? (Score:3)
What does happen if somebody cracks their protection? Do they go back to the drawing board, or do they buy the rights to the crack for $10,000, patent it, and then refuse to publish it?
My advide to anyone who thinks about taking up the challenge is to read the agreement very carefully. My hunch is that they will try to buy the rights to the crack.
Goal of SDMI != End copying (Score:4)
Go ahead! Buy a Britney song online and download it in SDMI format. Sure, toss it in your Napster share directory! Hack away at it too, and re-record it all you want...
But when the RIAA then scans Napster files, it will be very easy to find out whose copy it is that is floating around there (providing the watermark is still discernible). You did pay for your original download with your credit card, didn't you? Who's 31337 now, when they charge a gazillion bucks in damages to you?
In a way, this is just like DeCCS: the watermark will not prevent copying, but is supposedly meant to stop piracy, while in reality pirates will circumvent it. All it will do will be limiting users choice (eg. no Linux player).
Why bother "boycotting"? (Score:5)
Same with SDMI--they don't want to improve the product, they want to prove it uncrackable. If no breaks it, that will be evidence (to a person versed in using fallacies in place of logic) that SDMI will Make Money Fast For Artists. This gives them credibility and power.
Here's my recommendation: Hack it, but good. Hack it so good it can't be fixed. For instance, connect your soundcard "out" to your "in" and record--there's no getting around that. Alternatively you could hack it so good they have to go back to the drawing board for a year or two--giving MP3 (and Ogg Vorbis!) time to spread even further. If you haven't broken the rules (why are there rules in a hacking contest?) collect the $10k. If you have broken the rules, just post the results to lower their credibility.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
intrinsically flawed contest (Score:4)
What's worse, they're shooting themselves in the foot. The "contest" (hereafter referred to as "The Sham") runs from Sept. 15 until Oct. 7th. Why that window? Do you REALLY think that if someone is dedicated to cracking whateverthehell it is they're proposing, they'll give up after 3 weeks? Hell no - they'll pick away at it month by month until it's split wide open. Three weeks isn't going to do them a damn bit of good, IMNSHO.
There is an effective response (Score:5)
The more I think about it, the curiouser I get (Score:3)
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
Re:Why bother "boycotting"? (Score:3)
Prize money isn't guaranteed (Score:5)
So it looks like they trick people into checking their security for them, and then don't have to give them the cash anyway. Personally, I'd like to see someone remove the watermark and not tell them how it was done. Sure, they'd be forfeiting the possible prize money, but they'd also be delaying the introduction of SDMI. Like Don Marti, I don't copy music from others. And yes, protecting my fair use copying is worth more than $10K to me anyway.
Does it really matter? (Score:4)
Now from where I'm sitting, that means that breaking the encryption really isn't of much relevance; the issue is of making player-software available cross platform. This could be done by cracking the encryption, but lets face it: it's a whole lot easier just to reverse-engineer the player-software that is released, which is exactly what was done for DVDs.
Okay, so the powers that be don't especially like that tactic either, but in truth it's better for them too.
Re:give it away now (Score:4)
Re:The more I think about it, the curiouser I get (Score:3)
> affect the sound but will destroy any watermark.
No, that isn't going to work.
The watermark is a particular set of frequencies, repeated at particular times. It doesn't have to be audible. It certainly won't be removable by just twiddling bits--- anything that doesn't affect the sound won't affect it.
It's possible to use cryptography to hide the watermark, even if you reveal the algorithim for creating it. Any random set of sounds could be a watermark, but only if you know the correct key will you know what the watermark means.
Correctly implemented, there is no way to detect or remove it. However, from what I've read, the SDMI idiots appear to be rather clueless. They want the watermark detection to be built into every player, so that it will refuse to play even analog copies of watermarked material. Of course, this means that all you have to do is reverse engineer one of the millions of players they will be selling, and you know exactly how to find the watermark-- and how to remove it.
This is what we wanted, right? (Score:3)
Why Boycott (Score:5)
That is the real reason for the 'hacking contest'. Much in the way that the real reason for registration of firearms is to make the later collection of those weapons from the law abiding easier - so is the real purpose of this contest to allow the music industry to collect information on who is interested in trying to crack their copy protection scheme. Anything you do in this 'contest' may be used against you in a court of law at a later time and date.
Re:There is an effective response : (Score:3)
As for the boycott : they are clearly trying to avoid a DECSS-like failure.
Maybe they have the same level of confidence for their crypto technical than for their www one ?
This shows that DECSS teached some lessons.
But like usual, thos BIG-CORPORATE-FAT--ETC guys understood the teaching the wrong way, because if their "new" system is not cracked it three weeks, it's going to be cracked in four, five... until the sun blows. And even if the crack is declared illegal their will be a part of the world whete someone will sell it, and the bootleging-vox populi will do the rest.
For every better lock, there will be a better thief ! Hey guys, instead of focusing on the lock, please look at the door design.
On the other hand, like every #$$^#@#$ marketing guys, they gave the delays, blissly disregarding the rules of the game. And like usual the requirements seems to be late.
Bu I will advise for the boycott, because their goal is not clear. Apparently they are going to put a bunch of differents technologies under public scrunity. They seemed to learn at that principle of free software : the most testers you have, the better the product. But testing FOR them will be against our interests. Let them test, and if they cannot get people competent enough to point the flaws in their systems, it means they did not deserve that.
This quote sums up the flaw in this plan. (Score:3)
DISCLAIMER: Its long!
Basically they believe that the gaol of these hackers (if they find any) will be for the money or fame. After the three weeks they will give up and go home and never think about it again. However they are just going to end up giving these contestants a taste of flesh and they aren't going to stop. I'm just not that good with words so here are someone else's:
They are fools that think that wealth or women or strong drink or even drugs can buy the most in effort out of the soul of a man. These things offer pale pleasures compared to that which is greatest of them all, that task which demands from him more than his utmost strength, that absorbs him, bone and sinew and brain and hope and fear and dreams -- and still calls for more.
They are fools that think otherwise. No great effort was ever bought. No painting, no music, no poem, no cathedral in stone, no church, no state was ever raised into being for payment of any kind. No parthenon, no Thermopylae was ever built or fought for pay or glory; no Bukhara sacked, or China ground beneath Mongol heel, for loot or power alone. The payment for doing these things was itself the doing of them.
To wield onself -- to use oneself as a tool in one's own hand -- and so to make or break that which no one else can build or ruin -- THAT is the greatest pleasure known to man! To one who has felt the chisel in his hand and set free the angel prisoned in the marble block, or to one who has felt sword in hand and set homeless the soul that a moment before lived in the body of his mortal enemy -- to those both come alike the taste of that rare food spread only for demons or for gods."
-- Gordon R. Dickson, "Soldier Ask Not"
I Propose a new Challenge (Score:5)
Before one learns to fly, one must first learn to walk. Before one learns to develop a secure framework for digital music, one must first learn to use the target attribute.
Re:Better late than never... (Score:3)
It is far better to take SDMI, not find the holes, let them institute it, and then flood the market with the methodology to crack it, forcing them to scrap the entire project and walk away with egg on thier faces.
Re:give it away now (Score:3)
Do you really believe that a company or organization will ever be able to do anything to protect their music, video, or software from piraters if they really want it?
The music industry simply needs to be concerned about making it easy for consumers to buy and use digital music. If they do this, they might be just as successful as the software market.
-thomas
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Re:Prize money isn't guaranteed (Score:5)
How much time of a professional crypto expert's time would that buy in the real world? A week if they're feeling charitable.
The people behind the SDMI collective spend $10K on lunch. The prize money is more an insult to the value of cryptographic analysis than anything.
Re:Prize money isn't guaranteed (Score:3)
Notice they don't say what copy-protection/watermark methods there are to crack? Or what exactly a successful crack consists of?
It looks like the site requires a major update before the contest can start, and I imagine the legal details will be spelled out more thoroughly at that time. (If ever... the site was built on imagecafe and has dangling links to default pages and has a problem with its frames. It looks as if the only people who worked on it was the PR team.)
--
Don't Boycott; Show Their Futility (Score:3)
How can this be done? I'm no expert on watermarking, so I'll leave that one to someone else. But, for conventional means of copy protection, I have some ideas. If you can hear it, it can be recorded. Better yet, if its digital and your sound card plays it, then its driver is being sent the raw, unencoded, unencrypted data.
How about a fake sound driver? If someone wrote a sound driver (preferably for Windows so the collective would see the impact more plainly) that acted like a regular asound driver but instead recorded the raw audio data to a file, the "protected" songs would be available in an "unprotected" form.
So, how about it? Or do you think the SDMI would just have a law passed to make all Audio Card manufacturers adhere to SDMI specs and encrypt the data down to the DAC?
Re:The more I think about it, the curiouser I get (Score:5)
Under the DMCA any player which does NOT use the watermark is a device which is 'bypassing digital copy protection means' and is thus ILLEGAL.
Not only will all new players be forced, by law, to use the copy protection scheme; but you can be imprisoned for 5 years by using your old CDROM or sound card once the new copy protection scheme is on the market. Like DeCSS any device which can be used to copy protected music IS ILLEGAL under the DMCA.
For example a PC which has a current CDROM burner would be illegal. We can assume that Microsoft will put the music copy protection scheme into a future version of Windows - thus making illegal all current operating systems which do not have that code in them.
The DMCA is not about copy protection; it is about controlling what YOU can do with digital technology.