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Games Entertainment

Indrema Dead in 30 Days? 110

Posted by CmdrTaco from the guess-I'm-not-surprised dept.
missingmatterboy writes "Red Herring has an article on the current state of John Gildred's Indrema, and it doesn't look great. Without an investment in the next month or so, only the prototype will ever get finished, much less any completed units." Lots of lofty ideas, but you can only produce vapor for so long before exposing your soft fleshy belly. It sure looked like it could have been something tho.
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Indrema Dead in 30 Days? More

Indrema Dead in 30 Days?

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  • I wanted one (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I had read alot up on indrema and it looked very promising,But they never released any info on games coming out for it.There site had alot of info on the system but no info had games.I liked the idea of having all that stuff mixed into one package.They should be looking for capital in places no one would expect,I think they could have taken the market if they get the product out because of its potential.

  • Re:or... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Well, that's the point, you can't possibly turn a profit when you give stuff away, and that hurts everyone, too. Slashdot doesn't do anything to turn a profit aside from advertising, and Indrema failed, too. Open source and free software is good and all, but it just doesn't hold up in a capitalist society. I know, the easy response is blame it on capitalism, but I don't think socialism would at all be better. You're not entitled to a profit, but you have a right to try legal means to turn a profit. Socialism assumes that people will want to follow the law and want to share, something that in reality doesn't happen. There's always someone looking to cheat the system, but in capitalism, there's always someone there to oppose it. When it's restricted, as in socialism, they get away with it much easier. While somewhat vague, it's a good argument for capitalism, because it's not possible to legislate morailty. And when you try, you get Hitler and all the other dictators who have tried througout history. You can't legislate morality, and you can't assume that everyone has it, that they want to abide by the law, or that they can be forced to abide by it. There's always going to be someone to cheat the system, like it or not. With that, it seems that capitalism is a good choice because without nearly as much intervention, the system patrols itself. This means that when there's competition, and business is not severly restricted, usually there won't be problems. It's easy to say "but what about Microsoft" but that's a failure of those who were supposed to intervene and not the system failing. And when the goal is to turn a profit, those who choose to do so and don't give it away are going to have an inherent advantage. At least in terms of the economy, the internet isn't doing too well. Companies are giving it away for less or for free, and as we've seen yet again, it might work for awhile, but at some point, it's bound to fail, at least in the real world, it is. Consider this inherent flaw in the internet business model. A lot of money is coming from advertising, it pays the bills. But you can't rely on it to make a profit for you when it's the biggest source of income for everyone. To turn a profit, you have to receive more in advertising than it costs to pay the bills. And some of that money would go to advertising your own site, too. The flaw here is there's not enough money to go around and still have everyone, or almost everyone, turn a profit. Companies with a good business model can survive on the internet, but I don't think giving stuff away qualifies as a good business model. The companies making a profit are usually the ones that sell something and make a good profit off of it. These will survive, likely, but the others won't. The problem is when too much of the economy is based on giving it away, it's bound to fail to an extent. The first way is when it collapses, those who have a good business model are taken down with those who don't. Everything comes crashing down, and that's not good. The other possibility is consolidation, meaning that those who have a good business model will but out those who don't. This may result in the loss of good companies, and it's certainly sad when this happens, but it's better than everyone losing out. I know it sounds harsh and evil to many readers of this site, but there's no way around it, in business, only the best will survive. And in response to your post, we can only hope that Slashdot isn't one of those to die in this consolidation. None of us would like them to die out, but they're inherently at a disadvantage, and it's for the best of the industry as a whole if the weaker parts of it die out leaving the strong parts.

  • Re:You can still have an Indrema console! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why would you take a chunk of hardware with an architecture that's optimized strictly for games (X-box) and then install an OS on it that was never designed with games in mind?
  • For a username that low, that was the worst troll I've ever seen. Makes you wonder eh rares?
  • actually, I was referring to the parent of yours. You really should read /. in nested mode.

  • huh? (Score:1)

    by Danse ( 1026 )

    Wild Tangent was founded by Microsoft's former DirectX evangelist, Alex St. John. How could the company that Microsoft bought DirectX from turn into a company that was founded by a former MS employee? I don't get it.

  • Actually, if you'd actually paid attention, instead of immediately insisting that Indrema was a bad idea, you'd have seen the potential.

    The Indrema box was going to be a sweet platform for people like us. An Intel 750, 64mb SDRAM, GForce 2/3, hard drive, DVD, Dolby sound, ethernet, USB... And running Linux?? This thing screamed to be hacked. I was planning on buying one even if I never played a game on it (Even though I own copies of the majority of released Linux titles).

    I wanted to hook it to my network and and have it playing a monster XMMS playlist through my ground-shaking, pisses-off-the-neighbors home stereo system. I wanted to hack it to record TV broadcasts and SAVE THEM to my overgrown file server, instead of being forced to purge them periodically like I would have to on a Tivo. I wanted to watch DVDs, DivX movies on my TV. God it would have been sweet!
  • Sony and Microsoft both have strong brand name recognition and are huge companies that can pour a lot of money in. That's how they could get in. The Linux angle wasn't enough to overcome that. If Panasonic or some other big consumer company threw its hat in the ring, that's one thing. A total unknown, that's another. The whole Linux issue is the only reason this is getting press attention at all.

    Whether there is room for a new player really depends on whether Microsoft can make the Xbox work. That isn't necessarily a given. Even an experienced company like Sega or Nintendo can stumble (Dreamcast and N64 respectively). Sony got real lucky with the PSX and it's not clear how the PSX2 will shake out.

    Even if the XBox bombs, the only way a new contendor will get back in will be one with a lot of brand name recognition in computers or consumer electronics. And if the XBox doesn't bomb, then the only way there's going to be a new major player is if Sony or Nintendo get shoved out of the market first (and that can happen, given what happened to Sega).

    What will be interesting is what happens if people can get Linux booted and even optimized for running on the XBox. Instead of having the Indrema as a Linux gaming console, people will start turning it into one anyway, even if the selection of games is more slender. Ditto for the Sony PSX2 and the Nintendo Gamecube. People end up porting Linux to just about anything that can run it.
  • I'm not saying that this wasn't a good idea, but really what was the big deal. It was closed hardware that would be expensive to develop under, and it was in the company's best intrest to be shady about the whole thing.

    Not to mention that they had no software for it, but refused to open up the units to truly free software. I'm not a biggot, just a realist.
  • Microsoft didn't even make the first version of DirectX. They bought it from a small company which has now turned into WildTangent.
  • The question is whether Red Herring will still be in business in 30 days time since they are apparently about to cut costs by recalling all cell phones and shedding staff!
  • If the product is good than Indreama will get money.

    We have seen and most of us have experience start up companies on the verge of disappearing only to have mom and dad (VC money) pull them out.

    I don't think I am being too idealistic, am I?
  • having a linux OS doesn't make the console more desirable than the others. Its the developers, the games, and the popularity

    Perhaps, but let's just read into this a little bit deeper. In all the years I've been a developer, each platform I wrote software for had an OS. It seems to me that if you want the precious developers you should appeal to their needs. I would personally _much_ rather develop under Linux than WinCE (or, whatever). The decision to use Linux was to get developers, not to ensure that the console would be dead before it's release.
  • Its the developers, the games, and the popularity. The console world is a lot different than the PC world.

    No, that's pretty much why MS Windows is still the dominant desktop OS. They have more application developers, better games, and more popularity (as measured by installations). And some upstart desktop OS is going to have a harder time winning converts/investors than the incumbant will have keeping them.
  • Well, until recently I think this would have been true. Witht he economy in the state it is in, VCs are a lot more hesitant to pump money into troubled companies. It was ridiculous some of the stuff that had money thrown at it, and I think we are seeing a correction for this now.
  • "Click here to make sure you get the latest news updates on the Indrema Entertainment System."
    http://www.indrema.com/servlet/lead

    and see for yourself...
  • Actually, if you didn't know, there is a prototype. Yes, there is one. How do I know? I'm on of those "50 opensource ..." people. And, there were pictures in Next Gen April 2001. The whole system looks pretty slick (much nicer than the Xbox), and if it got out...Plus, it is now running at 750Mhz with an AMD processor. Standard Geforce 3 graphics (yeah, the Xbox will be NV27.5, but who knows when that will be out? That could possible kill M$ by causing them to delay launch, or settle for NV20 graphics..either way they are screwed).

    Also, the 0.4 version of the IESDK is about to be released. No, there is nothing new in it. But, it is completely updated (and it now included the kernel, so you can actually use the nVidia stuff in there). If the funding does go through, there will be an updated road map for all the sdk releases (with stuff like openstream and Xtrema, which are Indrema creations in it). Plus, us volunteer people have taken over some of the gameXchange / IDN / mailing list management, and there will be new content up on IDN soon. Yes, the place will come to life.

    Now, what happens if they go under? Well, John (as you can see in last weeks chat log [indrema.com]) is going to try and save the IDN and gameXchange sites as more general linux gaming resources. Also, they will be releasing all of their code (including the popcorn stuff -- their tv viewer and jukebox stuff), which they plan to do anyway (Xtrema is based on Xfree86 4, and openstream will be LGPL IIRC). So, don't count them out yet. Even if indrema inc. goes under, indrema the community won't.

    -------------
  • As a friend of mine suggested to Indrema:
    You have a half price PC capable of bringing a profit. Get out of the console market. Consoles are a curse.

    Had it not been for 3D spoiling the variety and quality of games, we would have seen a lot more titles and therefore more boxes.

    Game companies are dropping the ball, not just console makers.

  • I wasn't trolling. I've actually been following the Indrema platform unlike most of the /. speculate-and-talk-out-of-your-ass committee.
  • The Indrema didn't require a Net Yaroze type deal.

    The Indrema crew told me in person on irc that I could go ahead and build games right from my Debian box.

    Therefore the cost was zero.

    Seriously, quit whoring.
  • +1 Funny ?

    Never mind, maybe it's a bit too far from most slashdot readers' sphere of knowledge.

    I appreciated it though :)

    oojah
  • ...like the troll he is!

    --
  • > ...but you can only produce vapor for so long
    > before exposing your soft fleshy belly.

    My soft, fleshy underbelly was exposed for years before I began producing vapor.


  • So the Indrema's going to die. It's no big deal. The Indrema had NOTHING to offer the Linux community or, more importantly, the gaming community.

    A machine is basically is as good as it's games. It's why Sony was able to splash with the orginal Playstation and why Nintendo is so tenaciously holding on to life. It's why Sega hasn't had a great machine since the Genesis (sure, it has had a lot of quirky titles since then, but it takes a ton of Tekkens or Gamedays to sell Parappa the Rapper). I hadn't heard of one title of the Indrema. Not one. I wasn't actively looking, but if the machine had a snowball's chance in hell, I would have noticed something in a regular game news forum/news site.

    This was as inevitable as the demise of DivX (Circuit City's). Shed a tear, if you must, and let's move on.

  • We have to remember that a cool business plan is not always a good business plan. In fact, the only reason he was able to get any real funding was because of the excessive optimism when he first started. With the huge competitors selling their hardware at a loss, there was no way this was going to take off.
  • If all the Slashdot maintainers and users would contribute to the project, I'm sure it'd be worthwile. Stop flapping your gums and do something for a change. That is all.

  • They disobeyed the rule of open source software. Release soon and release often. That wasnt the ONLY rule they broke, by a long shot, but it was one of the fundamental.
    They had no idea of the community, and they ended up annoying all of Loki [lokigames.com], Tux Games [tuxgames.com], Tribsoft [tribsoft.com], and several others that I am barred from even mentioning.

    When you do that, you are pretty much dead in the water as far as the open source community goes.

    What may be the only good thing tocome of this, would be if they GPL'ed the complete details of everything they have done the day before they go down, maybe give something back to the community that so far they have only ignored.

  • DirectX is crap. A bloated, hacked-together mess of shortcuts, just like a lot of Microsoft's stuff. The signs were evident to me even when I played with DirectDraw 1.0. The main reason why the X-Box will succeed is because it is from Microsoft, which is notorious for its sell-ice-to-Eskimos marketing prowess.

  • I see lots of posts suggesting that the only thing the Indrema had going for it (or the only thing that made it different) was running Linux. I beg to differ.

    The reason I was hoping Indrema would make it was because of their licensing policy. As I recall, a game developer could get a FREE (as in beer--I don't remember about speech) SDK for it, AND you could release games that would run on other machines without purchasing a (costly) license from them.

    That was supposed to be the revolutionary aspect: you could have small-time artists or game developers releasing non-commercial (potentially high-quality) games without going broke. Parsec (http://www.parsec.org) is an example of a pretty decent non-commercial (gratis, not libre) game for the PC. Had they been trying to produce this for a console, how would they have been able to afford licensing costs?

    With Indrema, you (and possibly a group of your friends) could develop and distribute a game (for no charge, if I remember the conditions correctly) that would work on other Indrema consoles with minimal or no (I don't remember) money out-of-pocket.

    Somehow, I think the Indrema was infinitely better for this aspect than for "doing a Linux gaming console". I am by no means an expert on console game development licenses, so by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

  • if you want the precious developers you should appeal to their needs

    True I prefer to program under linux, but lets face the facts.
    The big name developers know DirectX, and all there games are developed under windows using DirectX. Now you are asking them to cross compile and change their media layer...
    What developers prefer and what the market is forcing on them are two different things. Yes, its unfair and unfortunate, but its the way the world is.
    And this is why you don't see many games on the linux OS...
  • he has a ring on his finger
    ---
  • Interestingly enough, this is an expose' of why Open Source will fail. If you can build it 100% open source, you can clone 100% of it, and take 100% of the profit away from those that actually develope it. This will in turn, create less Open Source Developement, except by those that are into donating their software to the world.
  • i agree that venture capitalists are horrible places for open source initiatives to get funding. as a friend of mine put it, vc's are just loansharks with slightly better tastes in suits. and doing a deal with the devil is hardly ever a good idea. have the indrema guys done the math on taking advance orders from linux gamers? macintosh developers used to do this, years ago, to self-fund their developments from the user community itself (mac users being as dedicated a tribe as linux'ers or bsd'ers) if 10% of the people who read the gaming posts on /. would plunk down $100 deposit on an advance indrema, how much $$ would that generate? enough to get the units in production? also, any creative ideas on open-sourcing the hardware design? so that, instead of hiring and having to pay hardware engineers, free-thinking gamers might could volunteer their time?
  • This is the Linux based video game box, right? Do you have to know the refresh rate of your TV in order to install it?
  • After a while, when a product is available that is better than anything on the market Like betamax, you mean? Yeah. In the world of consumer electronics (which this is, it's not IT), well marketed products sell. Quality, technical innovation and all the other things that really should sell a product like this are irrelevant, bacuase the people who are going to buy it don't know and don't care. I don't even care that it ran on linux. This is a games/entertainment box yes? It runs games and 3 or 4 applications. Who gives a fuck what the platform is as long as it works first time, every time, in an intuitive way? Nobody that's going to buy it, that's for sure.
    --
  • This is simple, why not shoulder the burden of hardware cost on the user?

    Simple, because the console would cost 2-5 times as much as the competition and nobody would buy it.
    --
  • It will probably boot from prom, and I wouldnt be surprised if the prom's contents were signed (with NVIDIA putting a check in hardware in the chipset). In which case I wouldnt give you a chance in hell of breaking it that way.

    Perhaps you could do something like abuse a bufferoverflow/backdoor in an authorized application to load Linux into memory after boot though, but it aint cut and dry. Reverse engineering the hardware would be a bitch too.
  • Not true....

    If they can make money off of it, then it will get money.

    but investers just don't line up to throw money into an already competetive market when their stocks are on the brink of going Bull....

  • Consider this.

    If Indrema decided to sell the specifications for their console at a reasonable price, I'm sure there would be a few companies interested in attempting to release their own system. The idea is to flood the market w/ Linux based consoles.

    So let's say Indrema won't make as much money from doing this, but at least they might stay alive. Look at the way GNU/Linux is distributed. Several vendors each giving you slight variations of the same thing. The idea that the distribution of the consoles would be greater, and make it a more attractive platform to develop games for.

    Indrema could take the initiative as being the company which offers certification of the games to insure compatibility. If that was the terms of licensing out the specifications to other companies, a standard for the games could be made.

    That actually MIGHT work.
  • Remember, SGI holds all rights to the use of the term Open* :-)

    But if the OpenGL API is used, then I don't expect too much bitching from them.

  • Especially when their main software lineup consisted of such cutting edge titles as:

    spygun69 [indrema.com]
    and
    zgone2002 [indrema.com]

    (These are listed under "Commercially developed" games, not freeware, etc.)

  • One problem that people keep bringing up is the fact that Linux was never designed with games in mind.

    The games market is enormous. Perhaps the time is right for an Open Source Games OS to be developed? One that doesn't have all the baggage required for server/desktop computing?
  • I have to agree that there is more to gaining VC than product marketability. To elaborate on another post, consoles are purchased for they quality/quantity of games put out for them. Quite frankly, we wouldn't expect to see a Final Fantasy 10 or Tekken Tag come out for Indrema, at least for a long time, since no game programmer is going to quit their job and start writing for an open source console. Also with the absence of licensing, the Indrema will have to make money off of console sales, which from what I can understand of the industry hasn't been done since the Atari 2600. The point is that since the downfall of "The New Economy", VC just aren't going to back companies that aren't going to turn a steady profit.
  • Betamax died because VHS was cheaper, so there was a better selection of videos even if they were of lesser quality. Your betamax example actually supports my point, since it would be much easier to distribute (and write, in my opinion) games for Indrema than for the Xbox. :-)
  • I'm sure that lots of developers would rather develop games on a Linux console over an XBox console. Unfortunately, their business isn't based on the number of developers. Any console business is based primarily on the number of pimply-faced 12 year old kids who buy it.(although developers are important, too). They could have developers out the wazoo (I know that a huge company like Sega did), but unfortunately, that's not how the business works. If they can't provide a gaming console that's cheap, mass-produced, and a marketing campaign that can appeal to millions of gamers all over the world, then this business just won't work.

  • You won't get money being open source and you need money to get consoles out before gamers buy the games. Besides, you still won't get money from open source games. The idea is simply broken. Indrema lacks a sound business plan because every good business plan puts getting money in the top priorities list instead of treating profits as an afterthought.
  • Those who wish to see this thing survive, save it yourself. Send Indrema an e-mail at feedback@indrema.com and tell them you're ready to put $100 down on a credit card, advance payment on a console when it's available... It's not as if there's any real danger in SAYING you would... Now if fifteen people do this they'll just shrug and say whatever... But if ten thousand people did it they'd start to give it a serious consideration. We make the products... We buy the products... Yet some outside force is always in control of the products... Is it just me or is that fucked?
  • I wanted to hook it to my network and and have it playing a monster XMMS playlist through my ground-shaking, pisses-off-the-neighbors home stereo system. I wanted to hack it to record TV broadcasts and SAVE THEM to my overgrown file server, instead of being forced to purge them periodically like I would have to on a Tivo. I wanted to watch DVDs, DivX movies on my TV.

    I already do all that with a Windows machine! Jackass!

    Go ahead and mod me down asshole! I could give a crap about your wanna be karma anyway. You're just pissed off that Windows really is a better OS than linux when all things are considered.
  • Fuckin' nit-picker Jackass!
  • His point was that keeping a mid-tower next to the TV can be a little inconvenient.

    Who's using a mid-tower. I have a Slim Form Factor case that's not much bigger than a VCR. Fits right on top of the VCR as a matter of fact. All the crap is displayed on a nice 36" Destinaton monitor (usta have a 3M projector, but sold that and bought the GF a car And myself the monitor) Use an ATI AIW Radeon to do the tivo crud (comes with a built in guide that DLs the info off of th cable or Inet, so no monthly fee like Tivo) and a standard DVD_ROM drive for DVDs. Wireless pointer and Kboard tops it all off.

    SB Live runs into the DD AV receiver, sounds fucking awesome! Fast ethernet access to the 320GB fileserver in the bedroom (tons of MP3s and DivX:) files) as well as a high speed Inet connection and a private LAN that consists of 7 machines now in 4 different apartments around the building (3 new people are petitioning for access, even the owner loves it and wants to subsidize the network and my rent because it attracts higher quality tenants). And I am the Administrator (that rocks, I'm like GOD DAMMIT!)Win 2k Server for the PDC/Fileserver/Webserver/MailServer/IRCServer and it has been up for 73 days without a glitch

    Everyone loves the setup and it's windows only tho game consoles are allowed. Everybody gets personal webspace and unlimited email, and with a 7Mb downstream connection, there is plenty of bandwidth to go around. Everyone chats with each other and sets up network games with IRC. Everyone is encouraged to share software with everyone else and also contribute to the software/music/video archive which is quickly growing past its 320GB limit. We now have over 90GB of MP3s alone (22,372 MP3 files at this very moment)157 compressed CD-ROM ISOs as well as 174 DivX:) DVD rips (VHS quality). I have actually been pricing a new case, IDE Controller and drives to bring the limit up to 640GB (that'll be one hell of a striped volume). I am also on the market for an HP ProCurve 4000m switch for the upcoming expansion. If the building owner does decide to subsidize the network (and that is a 95% sure thing), every apartment will be wired and the filesharing will have to move to a VPN (but that's no big deal). This is very exciting. And to think that it all started with me and my friend wanting to play network games against each other. I may soon be living rent free as part of the deal. Life is good.

    As an aside, what's with all these windows lovers complaining about biases on /.? Yeah, we're fucking biased as hell, and always have been, so why go here when there are plenty of other sites that don't have our editorial slant?

    There is no fun in trying to argue with someone who agrees with you. Duh! I thought you guys were supposed to be smart. Gimme a harder question.

  • Re:Shall I mention Sega? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Its only major advantage over the competition was the linux OS.


    I think that's even a stretch. Linux was never made for games, so running it wouldn't necessarily be an advantage. It can be argued that Linux is infinitely customizable and could be made to work acceptably in a console, but if you're going through all that trouble, you might as well create an optimized platform from the ground up. The advantage that MS had in designing the X-box is that DirectX has had many years to mature, so they already had a fast API, and then basically stripped everything else out of the OS that wasn't needed in console. Now if only they could do the same thing for desktops.
  • Hey, I stick to stuff that I can do. Right now, that means Mastering Tools [airwindows.com], and getting my CDs together on a new site (Ampcast). I have a bit of money- it goes toward _my_ stuff, some of which is Free software (Mastering Tools is not GPL by accident).

    Why does this work for me and not for Indrema? Because I'm managing my cashflow better. I've been shoveling money into 24-bit digital mastering to go along with the Free mastering/dithering software I've written, and it is exactly the amount of money I can _afford_ to shovel if I can live on ramen and spaghettios. This means I get hit with delays because it's flat out not enough money to accomplish everything at once, but the _cashflow_ situation demands budgeting and accepting the limitations- the concept is to move step by step rather than to seek financing to move all at once.

    There are some things that I hope are in my future that would require financing- but that's all the more reason to consider cashflow, and look at the breakeven point very conservatively. Dotcoms were freaks of nature... in the real world your job is not 'make lots of money by whatever means', your job is providing whatever good or service will get you paid enough to break even or better. People forget this very easily, which is why I think they get excited about financing, apparently on the assumption that if you can get someone to give you loads of money, you win, and you simply spend it on advertising and marketing to have more people give you money and so on.

    If Indrema is really dead in 30 days it can only be because it tried to play this game and lost. Maybe the better course would have been for Indrema to develop just as an idea for years and skip the next couple generations of console products, developing in the form of a virtual machine on Linux boxen. I don't know- but a real Free project can't die, it can only stagnate and gather dust. If Indrema can die, it's not what I thought it was- and seems less worthy of a donation from me. I don't seem them donating anything _to_ me. And if that sounds like a wiseassed remark, note that I've now put three separate near-Nyquist dither algorithms into the GPLed sphere, which any Free gaming console could use to convert internal 24 bit or better audio to 16 bit audio output. If you tried to license POW-R it'd cost thousands- Apogee UV22 is likewise a commercial, proprietary product, and I don't see anyone _else_ doing Free high resolution audio development. I am, and because of that it's available to any Free game console project, with or without actively involving me. I'm not aware of anything Indrema's done that does _me_ any good the way this could do them good.

    Maybe the next bunch will have better cash flow management. I know I can't give Indrema money- I'm scrabbling to pursue my own projects. Though they don't know it, I've given them some very high performance audio tweaks- various aspects of Mastering Tools could easily be transformed into a Free game console audio engine that's very competitive with the coming generation of consoles. But they have to keep their own boats afloat first. Really, how many of us are venture capitalists?

  • Breathe! Take a breath... that's good... good boy. Apart from that, how's your freshman year going? :)

  • Re:Uh, (Score:2)

    by Danse ( 1026 )

    Slashdot may have posted quite a few stories about Indrema, but that's because tons of people submitted those stories. As much as we all doubted that it would ever actually make it, most of us were really hoping for a miracle. I don't think Slashdot ever said anything resembling "Indeed it is. Clearly, Linux is the future of gaming consoles. The world cheers to be offered more choices." The most optimistic thing I saw from Slashdot was this, "I'm still pretty excited to see what comes of Indrema. I'm still waiting for the converged media box, and they've got as good of a shot as anyone." Most of their other comments were nowhere near as optimistic.

    So, Slashdot wasn't really being harsh or hypocritical. They wanted the product to succeed as much as the rest of us, but they never really seemed to expect it to any more than the rest of us either. Various posters are a different matter, but you could accuse "posters" in general of damn near anything and be able to back it up with links. The articles themselves were posted because Slashdotters submitted them. Just as with any other article, you must judge bias and such for yourself.

  • a perfect example of this is Sony's early "all playstation games must be 3D" stance

    Or Nintendo's related stance with "all N64 games must be crap".

  • Idrema should change its business model. Create a hardware spec that says, in so many words, that if you have the following hardware, you can run our software. If you run our software, all you have to do is buy a CD with the game on it, mount it in your drive, and it will play with no hassles.

    Hahaha, so they can repeat the brilliant success of the 3DO, perhaps?

    Go directly to clue.com. Do not pass go.com.

  • What, again, was so revolutionary about this console?

    In terms of technology, absolutely nothing. However, what it promised was an open development environment, which meant that Indrema certification for a game was entirely optional. Anyone could release software for it, from a small backroom business to huge multi-national corporates. The other consoles shut out the smaller developers with the high barrier to entry. Ultimately, that stifles innovation, and you get a procession of near identical games, because that's what the console maker dictates (a perfect example of this is Sony's early "all playstation games must be 3D" stance). It's a shame to see Indrema fail, but I can't say I'm surprised.

  • Think about it for a second, if ID Software or someone invested a minimal amount into this to get it going, they would make their money back not only on the hardware, but on the software level too.

    Hmm...they could drop development for other consoles, and get this thing renamed the "ego" ;)

    Then, a year down the road, they could update the system (to the latest/greatest graphics chipset, and add more memory) and re-release it as the "SuperEgo"...

    Then they'd have a full triad...

  • How did it look like it could be something?

    I followed it closely and what they were trying to do and how they were going about it showed little real knowledge of how console game systems really work. Sure they wanted to change a lot of the "normal" conventions but there was no way what they were building was capable of that. So please, and I am serious, someone with a clue explain to me it could have ever amounted to anything?
  • No need to get it modded, and development efforts are already proceeding apace [sourceforge.net], and technical information is available [mc.pp.se]. Plus, it's cheap and has Ethernet available.

    It may not be a PS2 or XBox on paper, but in practical terms it's still in the same ballpark.

    Jon

  • Amiga? (Score:2)

    by PD ( 9577 )
    Maybe he could hook up with Amiga.
  • It would not solve so much for the case. The problem with Idrema is not creating new boxes. It is creating a new box.
  • Indrema was a nice idea, but it really didn't seem to have any presence, or a decent business plan. Where did they expect the money to come from?
    Initial cost on the console has to be low if you want anyone to buy it, and games have to be somewhat closed off. If anyone can develop, then you don't even get licensing fees. No one works on trust in this industry if you can get something (legally) for free.

    Maybe Indrema would've gone somewhere as a set-top box, combining DVD playback and PVR capabilities, but the games are what would've made the system, and who's going to develop for a system that barely anyone has heard of?

    Granted, one good game would've dragged me in to buy this box, too... Much like Soul Calibur got me hooked on Dreamcast, and Phantasy Star Online kept me there. Or my N64 with Rogue Squadron, or the PS2 with Onimusha, and (sweet Lord in Heaven, you have truly blessed us) Metal Gear Solid 2.

    Most consoles manage sales based on a single title. PSX had Final Fantasy 7, N64 had Mario, and the entire Game Boy revival owes its existence to Pokemon. Indrema had nothing at all like this. Under those conditions, if they didn't die before launch, the system would just sit on the shelves anyway.

    Awaiting Karmic destruction for ragging on Linux hardware,
    Raptor
  • Okay can someone please give me one really good reason I'd want a game console with a multi-user POSIX compliant kernel running on it? A game console needs the bare minimum of resource menagement as to use as little overhead as you possibly can. Writing for consoles is so very different than writing for PCs because you're adapting a general purpose system for use in your game as opposed to having a box meant for the task you're programming it for. From what I have seen Microsoft seems to be making the XBox merely a compact PC with powerful hardware games can use. PC architecture is shitty for the high intensity operations detailed 3D graphics need. The Indreama's licensing was novel though I doubt it would have ever made money had the project gotten off the ground. Console makers thrive from game (software) sales because publishers need their seal of approval. Charging a few scant dollars for Angus Linuxprogrammer to write his own game won't attract too many investors to your project. I think the project had some good ideas but for the most part it couldn't compete with its own business plan.

  • Here's a hint - collect a big pile of gold and jewels, and sleep on it all the time. This should armor you up just fine. I'd like to see those damn Lakemen try something now. Who's your King under the Mountain now, punk!

  • This is simple, why not shoulder the burden of hardware cost on the user? I know, what the hell is he talking about, but hear me out. Idrema should change its business model. Create a hardware spec that says, in so many words, that if you have the following hardware, you can run our software. If you run our software, all you have to do is buy a CD with the game on it, mount it in your drive, and it will play with no hassles. After all, Idream was based on Intel and Linux stuff, why would this not work? Hardest thing would be to get past the different distros, but once that is done, you create a stable platform to develop games and play games. That way, Idrema can still get their money for the license, and they don't have the overhead of having to sell hardware. It could work....

    Bryan R.
  • You know, I've read a lot of articles about the Indrema. Correct if I'm wrong (please, be nice), but I can't recall ever having seen any sort of BUSINESS plan. You know, making money.

    They claimed to want to embrace the garage programmer that wanted to make games. This infers that there would be no royalty charges, since he could write the game for Linux and post the game to the Internet. All free, right?

    Well, all videogame consoles are sold at a loss, and the money is made up on royalties. Seeing the specs for the Indrema, if they were going to release the machine at $299, they'd be losing at least $100 per machine. Where would they make up the money? Bad Business Decision Number 1.

    OK, so lets assume Royalties are in. The machine plays DVD movies, and has PVR functionality. Neither of which require the purchaser to give additional money to the Indrema folks. What's to stop people from just using the machine for those features ... even if Indrema were to collect royalties on software, they CAN'T if they aren't SELLING any software. Hell, even SONY made this mistake. The PS2's sold like mad, but are being used mostly as DVD players in Japan. Publishers are PISSED. You don't piss off your Publishers, but it looks like Indrema is making the same mistake. Bad Business Decision Number 2.

    Frankly, I think it's a good thing Indrema died now, rather than after they lost their shirts trying to figure out how to sell it. And if by some miracle, they manage to get funding, they better come up with a business plan ... FAST.

  • Loki didn't do a Quake3 port. The Quake3 porting was performed by id software, just like all the other Linux ports of all the id games since Wolfenstein.
  • "You know: rip the company off for selling loss-leading hardware, like we have in the past. "

    Punishing companies for their own stupidity is an honorable endevour. Companies know that most people are idiots who can not take advantege of offers like this. They also know that a small percentage of clued in people will take advantage and will cause them to lose money. In the end because for every clued in person there are a thousand stupid idiots they will make lots of money.

    The stupids pay their stupid tax, the bright people get a bargain, the company makes millions, everybody wins (except the sheep who are being fleeced of course but they don't count).
  • Hmmm. I would really like to clone the loss making part of the system (the hardware) and rake 100% of the loss away from those that initially developed it.

    Games for Indrema were never going to be open source. Games are where the profit is.

    Indrema would have been better off working out how to get Linux working on the XBox as a game host OS, and on the GameCube and PS2.

  • Indrema Corporation are expected to shut their doors within the next couple of months after running out of money and failing to find new backers.

    Points: 150

    Microsoft shares rose 0.1c upon investors hearing the news.

    Honestly, this is a shame, as the device had a lot of potential. However they should have stuck with a spec and released something. I hope they opensource the specification before they lock the door.
  • I agree.

    Get the Indrema hardware specs, and software library and opensource them under an "OpenConsole" moniker.

    There would be a minimum required power (e.g., Kyro II with 700MHz Athlon), and all consoles that are "OpenConsole" compliant would have to meet that speed, be it with an 800MHz PIII, or whatever. There would be optional parts to the spec (Firewire and Ethernet spring to mind). OpenConsole would be updated once every two years with a new minimum spec, and a backwards compatibility requirement. You do not get OpenConsole label if your console is over-specced either, as that would split the market and tempt people to write games that require too much spec for a particular OpenConsole specification.
  • "It sure looked like it could have been something tho."

    The only reason some Linux people wanted to see Indrema survive was because Linux is still not even remotely close to being accepted as a gaming platform and Linux geeks want so badly for that to change.

    Loki can't do everything, though I'm sure someone was going to reply to me screaming their name. It takes more than a Quake 3 port.

    The fact is, that Linux still isn't really ready to be a major gaming platform, and even had the Indrema taken off, this still wouldn't have given proof that the Linux OS is ready for main-stream gaming, it would've just proven that a console running on Linux can be a viable gaming platform. There is a major difference between running Linux on a console for games, and using a Linux powered PC for games.

    "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
  • Yeah, selling a box for Linux geeks to hack is going to make a ton of money. Especially when it will be sold at a loss for the first year, possibly two years, just to get a little market share. They definately wanted to sell it to guys like you, who would hack the box and not even buy games because you were using it for other stuff. Sounds like the perfect business model to me.

    Emachines makes boxes for guys like you. Console companies make games for people who buy loads of licensed software and peripherals.
  • If you really wanted to degrade him, you should have pointed out that he could do all of that with an iMac!
  • But that is a risk that we should take into ourselves. If we want to create an independent, autonomous and self-sufficient industry, capable to support and protect our values, we should start to risk money.

    I am all for supporting ventures that may be risky if they support Open Source ideals or are pro-consumer (I'd support any hard drive manufacturer who wa sleft if CPRM became a standard) but the Indrema situation was just a losing proposition.

    Indrema planned to enter a market where companies routinely spend billions of dollars and still operate at a loss for years or sometimes never make a profit. For instance SEGA created the Dreamcast with games like Shenmue and Soul Calibur but yet they still couldn't hack it, also it has been projected that Microsoft will need at least $5 billion and 5 years before it begins to see any profits from the X-box, if all things remain equal.

    All Indrema had going for them was that they planned to run linux on the OS, which doesn't mean diddly when it comes to pushing out a games console. Heck, Linux isn't even a games friendly OS yet. We are not obligated to support every brain dead business idea simply because it uses Linux or has Open Source in it's description.

  • People echoed these same sentiments every time an Indrema article was posted. We all wanted it to happen, it would have been awfully nice to have a fully hackable gaming device, but there just was no way that it could compete in the market, and the investors have figured that out.

    *sigh* Back to Dreamcast for me.

    The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.

  • It sure looked like it could have been something tho.

    By which I suppose you mean "A big fat embarassing something for Linux". Come on. This outfit has been stringing the Linux community along for the longest time and it's about time someone told them to put up or shut up. The only reason the community hasn't tossed them out on their asses is that you kept falling into the "but what if it succeeds and Linux wins and Billy Gates gets his ass kicked and goes home and I get to go out with a hot blonde chick that digs my cool Linux console" dream.

    Stop it. Really. Just stop it.

    Anyone with a lick of sense should have smelled that this thing was rotten a long time ago.

    And people wonder why Loki never signed on as a developer. Sheesh. Loki may have problems, but at least they knew not to get into this sham.

    One important question is how Red Hat got scammed into announcing a partnership with these guys.

  • One word: OpenDirectX.

    /Brian
  • Same reason people ported Linux to the Dreamcast or the iPaq -- because they can. Ain't nothing wrong with that, and it's a good education in embedded systems design.

    /Brian
  • Good call.. I even think that there are quite a few number of people saying that "..they always thought that Linux and Open source would never actually work; it's all about money and advertisement you little boys, go home and play!". :(
  • What they should do is open source the software, and sell the hardware blueprint for $10 a copy. This way they don't have to worry about the production function or increased investment.

    Once they finish the working prototype, selling instructions on building the hardware will allow people to construct a linux gaming system the way they'd construct a PC, but still make their own games, retaining the company's innovative vision. It would also represent a new influx of cash.

  • Get an X-box. Install Linux on it. Same deal, more or less.

    What, again, was so revolutionary about this console? It might have been fun to hack, but I don't see why it seemed so promising that Indrema was going to build a console based around a platform that was clearly immature as far as multimedia and gaming is concerned.

    I was hoping some of their multimedia/gaming developements might migrate their way into desktop linux distributions. Maybe they still will, but more than likely their R&D (whatever was accomplished) will fade into oblivion.

  • Wow - this guy had to be insane. Not only trying to break into what must be one of the most difficult-to-crack industries in the world, but doing it on his own dime. I mean, he started in January 2000, when venture capitalists were still giving out money. What was he thinking?

    Maybe we can start a support fund? We can all send in $1? Or we can pool our dollars and buy the company and publish his specs as an open-source-hardware game console.

  • Uh, (Score:2)

    by Gannoc ( 210256 )
    Isn't that a little harsh, considering Slashdot was the place constantly posting articles claiming that a Linux-based open developer system was the greatest thing ever for console gaming? It doesn't speak well for the community.

    Bob writes: Hey the Indrema is looking very good.. Indeed it is. Clearly, Linux is the future of gaming consoles. The world cheers to be offered more choices.

    Billy writes: Hey, Indrema isn't looking too good right now.. Yeah, it was always just a bunch of damned vaporware anyway.

  • For some of you that have obviously missed it. The plan never was to compete head to head with the larger console makers in the beginning. Taking a page from the Open Source playbook, the idea was to *stay afloat* for a few months or years whilst continually improving the product. Sure, the idea is to make a lot of money, but *NOT* to make a lot of money and sell a lot of units immediately.

    After a while, when a product is available that is better than anything on the market, has more content than the larger console can ever hope to provide, and costs a fraction of the cost of comparable consoles/services, *THEN* Indrema would take off and beat the major consoles into submission.

    Also, if Indrema is ever successful then it will provide exactly what I think Linux now lacks before large game developers will write games for Linux: A single, standard platform to write for. If they are sold, it will cost approximately $500 to buld an Indrema console. If you want to support Linux, do what I plan on doing if given a chance: But an Indrema console at any price.
  • Part of the hype surrounding the Xbox is the fact that Microsoft will allow game developers to develop on PC's capable of using DirectX. Compare this to Nintendo, who require developers to purchase an expensive SGI system to develop for n64.

    What this means is that most games for XBox will require few or no changes to work on a proper PC.

    This is the way that Indrema *should* work if it ever gets the money, a proposition which I doubt considering how hard it is for Linux companies to turn a profit now. Like the XBox, games written for GTK or whatever on the Indrema would work with very little modification on other Linux workstations.

    Because people won't be developing games on Linux for Indrema, however, means that people won't be developing those games for Linux. It's a sad loss, but one that's hardly surprising.

    ALL YOUR SEGA ARE BELONG TO XBOX!
  • (What haven't you watched Sat. Night Lives greatest hits, with Eddie Murphy as Buckwheat singing!@!)

    Anyways, I think the guys over Indrema have a good idea but are possibly going about fundingvia the wrong methods.
    With limited financial support, Mr. Gildred and his team of 50 open-source community developers, volunteers, and employees are now finishing a working console prototype. That's all he can promise at this point.


    He estimates that an Indrema system will be available in limited quantity by the end of 2001. Of course, that depends on somebody coming through with more money. And, as Mr. Gildred himself admits, the chances of that are slim.
    One of the things I think their team should do is, create the working prototype, and instead of approaching a VC, they should bring it to the attention of a gaming company.

    Think about it for a second, if ID Software or someone invested a minimal amount into this to get it going, they would make their money back not only on the hardware, but on the software level too. I wouldn't count this company out just yet, I would hope the staff would take other jobs to pay their bills, and continue on with the project, things take time, and with NASDAQ at its worst, money is out of the question for EVERYBODY, not just the little guy.

    news you can lose [antioffline.com]
  • Yeah, everyone knows how well known Linux is for it's massive numbers of high quality games. Making a game console running Linux was the obvious choice.
  • A new gaming platform is a hard sell no matter how you try it. But VC funding may not have been the best way of building it, since for something like that to succeed may easily take a decade of patient, steady development and marketing. The best way for that might have been inside a traditional, large company. Or it might have required a different strategy: develop a Linux gaming platform first, release a bunch of games over the years, make just enough money to break even, and eventually release your own box. That's, incidentally, what Microsoft has been doing.

    But VCs want it all: a company worth hundreds of millions of dollars within a few years. It should have been clear from the start that that was very unlikely to work for Indrema. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

    A startup is not the only way to build a successful company. Most companies, and most of the biggest companies, have grown gradually over many years. It gives them time to build good products and a good reputation, where startups rely on buzz and marketing blitzes.

    Think about that before you take the VC money. If you really care about your product and want it to come to market, a startup may not be the way to go. Of course, if you want a lottery ticket with better chances than the state lottery, the startup is still a good choice.

    As for Indrema, let's hope that any efforts they have made on the software side will benefit Linux gaming in the long run.

  • SLASHDOT GOLD. Memories of good times (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 06, 2001 @06:47AM (#311239)
    Hi, Welcome to today's issue of SLASHDOT GOLD. Today we're bringing you the news we were getting excited about few years ago. Today's theme is the now defunct Indrema console. Here's what slashdot had to say about Indrema over a year ago:

    Can Indrema Beat Microsoft To the Punch?

    Posted by timothy on Sunday March 19, @06:59PM from the please-don't-be-vapor dept. taggedfordeletion was one of the many, many readers to beseige us with news of the announcement from a company called Indrema of their Indrema L600E set-top box, a Linux-based gaming machine. Actually, it promises a lot more than gaming -- the company touts it as a "Web console" that will also serve as a Web browsing platform and (wonder of wonders) MP3 jukebox. As taggedfordeletion points out, "The Internet capabilities of the box are especially promising, including support for DSL and cable modems." Console gaming is a harshly competitive field, though, with Sony, Nintendo, and Sega (soon to be joined by Microsoft) clawing for reputation, marketshare and all-important game sales. Don't forget that three major players (Sega, Nintendo, Sony) can make a claim that neither Microsoft or Indrema can: their consoles exist, sell, and make people happy. A Playstation in the hand offers utility that "upcoming" devices can't match.

    Still, it looks like the so-called X-Box from Microsoft is the machine Indrema's box would be running against, assuming that both of them actually reach the market. Similar specs and expansion capabilities mean that either could be enough computer for people interested primarily in games and getting online, who are looking for no more than a single no-hassle combination of these. That's why the Indrema machine isn't being sold as a gaming device, but rather as a Web Console, with copious references to "the future of TV."

    The game-box as everything-box market has been promised for years, and keeps turning out to be either unsatisfying and limited (WebTV), or Yet Another Gaming Machine, despite promises to the contrary. Remember the ColecoVision ADAM? The real question seems to be whether a Linux-based console from an unknown company can survive in the gaming marketplace; after that we can worry about whether it will replace recipe books in the kitchen and the cable box in the living room. After all, that "everthing console" isn't technically impossible; it's just always fizzled as PCs have surpassed the jack-of-all-trades game machines in usefulness, if not in sizzle.

    Now, for a minute, forget technical brilliance, forget flexibility, forget how cool it would be to run Linux on your bedside table. Think money, instead.

    Microsoft's R&D budget is bigger than the GNP of many nations in the world. The Men In Redmond have enough marketing money to buy Superbowl advertising without batting an eye. You can bet when the X-Box launches, it will have been preceded by a canny stream of attention-building hype, that it will look sexy, and that it will sell at a carefully chosen price aimed at moving it as fast as they can be cranked out and still maximize profits. Likewise, Sega, Sony and Nintendo all have plenty of market savvy and established infrastructure, right down to magazines, distribution networks and strategically-released hints and easter eggs. Not only that, but they each have a hefty stable of games, including Hollywood-names and weird-but-true fandom games like Pokemon, as well legions of rabid fans to play them and design houses to keep 'em coming. It would take a hefty treasure chest (or a lot of faith) for a newcomer in the game market to get the kind of pop-culture deal that sells games based on Star Wars, The X-Files or even Barbie.

    Now think money again, but in a different way. An open-source OS may save Indrema a few dollars per box in making the console, but since the guts of the machine they describe include 100Mb ethernet and loads of other ports, a 600MHz processor, and an optional hard drive, its price will probably be in line with that of the X-Box. That is to say, probably overlapping the price range and capabilities of low-end PCs, and without the same economies of scale that Microsoft will likely generate. Even so, since gaming consoles have traditionally been loss-leaders to sell high-margin games, will an open-OS machine be used to play primarily commercial, proprietary games?

    If that's the case, then Indrema will have to scramble to provide enough hot-selling games to subsidize console sales. The Sony Playstation 2, already out in Japan and due in the US next fall, boasts more than 160 registered developers worldwide. And since it plays the first generation Playstation games as well, players can choose from more than 3,000 games. By contrast, the leap from NES to Nintendo 64 may have been too great for generational compatibility to have played much of a role, something that Sony has obviously learned from. Microsoft, meanwhile, may not have as large a signed-on group, but carries enough clout (and waves enough cash) in the PC gaming industry to ensure at least a handful of blockbuster games early on. Against that kind of competition, any new entrant is playing catch-up ball.

    In fact, there's little indication of what games the Indrema system would play. The box is listed as including Quake 3 Arena / Unreal Tournament, but the Indrema site lists no other game possibilities. And since it touts a "special 'DV Linux' distribution," it's unclear which games will run out-of-box. The X-box is planned to run only games written specifically for it; avoiding that fate seems tricky, since games on every platform except those written for a particular console have a way of sneakily requiring more or different resources than you've got in the box. And if the Indrema machine should have complex enough of an interface to allow users to easily modify directories, install packages and otherwise tweak the contents of that optional hard drive, would it be able to retain the ease of use the console market thrives on?

    On the other hand, perhaps packaged games aren't the point at all. Every major player in the console industry is selling their systems' networkability, whether by dialup modem or broadband. Microsoft's interest in WebTV -- and the pay-per-month online games now available -- may be a taste of where the console makers would really like their revenue to come from: a captive audience willing to pay not only for games or other applications, but for access to them. Repeat business and low margins have sold billions of hamburgers, after all. It's plausible that Indrema will offer servers featuring games exclusive to monthly subscribers, or on a per-game basis.

    Indrema's nearly breathless Web site hints at a Winter 2000 release: "expected to ship in time for Christmas." That's well before the X-Box is slated to ship, according to this ActiveNetwork comparison of the Sony Playstation 2 and the X-box. I hope they're right, because it seems like a head start might be the only hope for survival against the big-name establishment.

    Can Indrema Beat Microsoft To the Punch?
    I think we all know the answer to this one.

  • A view of the situation (Score:3)

    by Ektanoor ( 9949 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @07:07AM (#311240) Journal
    What I see here is probably some point of what may be wrong with our community.

    Most of us are here and expect. Expect that programs are made, expect that bugs are fixed, expect that tools come out to the market.

    This is wrong.

    We should not expect. We should also participate. Ok, not everyone, nearly anyone has experience with programming or administration or whatever. But sincerly it is better to give a lamer's report of something wrong rather than expecting that the author will guess that something is wrong. I found a few cases when some general error was not reported because everyone expected omeone else to report it... So let's be a little more active ok?

    On what concerns such ventures as the one we see here. They need money. Isn't anyone ready to help them? If there will be a mechanism to support these guys I will give my money. Even if I am in Russia. Little but more than nothing. I would help these guys develope this card and even sell it to me. There were such cases in the wild past. One such case happened almost at the same time when Linux was created. Some engineer colected money and technical recomendations to design a sound card. Ok one may ask why I should pay for it if i already invested on it. But there are the production costs and marketing and everything else. You may not pay for the whole price but still help these guys making a great product.

    People, let's not expect that corps or investors will care for such ventures. They won't. 90% of them are worried more about finances, money and profit, rather then on the creation of a new technical wonder. It is correct that this wonder should also prove it's worth to market. But that is a risk that we should take into ourselves. If we want to create an independent, autonomous and self-sufficient industry, capable to support and protect our values, we should start to risk money. I believe that this is a risky but honourable venture. And I believe that those who are in the critical sectors of our industry should start thinking about this. This will be something like those merchants who gathered together to build ships and secure their cargos. Note that these ventures, these "corporations" were the basis from which a certain United States of America was created... I am not American and I do see in a very critical view the USA. But still it was a great venture and a great step for Mankind what was done.

    It was only a bunch of merchants who started such thing. We are just a bunch of users.

  • You can do it with linux too (Score:3)

    by Galvatron ( 115029 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @08:44PM (#311241)
    His point was that keeping a mid-tower next to the TV can be a little inconvenient. A nice little console that's completely hackable and totally compatible with his desktop would have been nice.

    As an aside, what's with all these windows lovers complaining about biases on /.? Yeah, we're fucking biased as hell, and always have been, so why go here when there are plenty of other sites [cnet.com] that don't have our editorial slant?

    The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.

  • Shall I mention Sega? (Score:4)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @06:43AM (#311242) Homepage Journal
    Dreamcast died and it was an excellent machine.
    Indrema was a brand new company trying to break into the industry. Its only major advantage over the competition was the linux OS. And (this isn't a flame, but I'm sure it'll be taken as one) having a linux OS doesn't make the console more desirable than the others. Its the developers, the games, and the popularity. The console world is a lot different than the PC world.

  • Re:Game writers are dropping the ball. (Score:4)

    by Erasmus Darwin ( 183180 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @09:05AM (#311243)
    Had it not been for 3D spoiling the variety and quality of games

    Other things that've been responsible for spoiling the variety and quality of games:

    • Gauntlet - Popularized "quarter suckers"
    • Street Fighter 2 - Popularized "fighting games"
    • Duck Hunt - Eventually led to numerous "shoot at stuff" arcade variants
    • Graphics - Was to games what television was to books

    There's always something out there for the less talented, formulaic game designers to latch on to and copy. If it wasn't cloning 3D first-person shooters, it would be cloning 2D side-scrolling platform games or 2D real-time strategy games or...

  • Hate to say it.. (Score:5)

    by Junta ( 36770 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @06:48AM (#311244)
    But from the start I did not think that Indrema had a good chance. Being "linux-based" isn't a magic pill to get things popular. Sure it has a lot of cool features, but a large part of what they were relying on was the hype surrounding linux. On a game console, this doesn't buy them all that much functionality wise. It may be different if there was a large number of linux based video games, but there aren't. They were trying to enter a market deeply entrenched by the likes of Sony and Nintendo. A very necessary resource to have a chance of breaking into that market would involve really deep pockets, like Microsoft has. Indrema couldn't afford to lose as much money as they would need on the console itself yet, no way they could afford a good marketing campaign. Now they are down to the hope of last minute investors in a economy that is going downhill. Maybe they could have done something much earlier, if they timed it just right, when the media was super-hyping linux, economy was booming, and there were many investors ready to throw money at all things computer based, but even then I would think they would have a snowball's chance in hell of success. Too bad, it would've been nice to have been proved wrong. They did seem to be getting a quality product developed that would've been techincally superior to most other things out there, but as we have seen many times before, quality isn't the only factor...

  • When was that? (Score:5)

    by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @07:01AM (#311245)
    "It sure looked like it could have been something tho."

    A console by a company with no reputation, no serious financial backers, no experience, and no large parent firm, and you thought it could have been something? Why? Because it ran Linux? Linux was the only thing Indrema ever had going for them, because it was a great buzzword.

    If anything, the Linux community should be glad to see Indrema go. People who use Linux to fund their cash-burning startups and never produce anything do little to advance the cause.

  • Who's going to invest any serious $ in a product that is going to compete against two industry giants, M$ & $ony, in a environment that has already produced casualties like the SEGA box?

    Bravo for the idea, and I would've LOVED to see the indrema happen, but the chips were stacked against them from the beginning.

  • Ew! (Score:5)

    by BillyGoatThree ( 324006 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @07:10AM (#311247)
    "...but you can only produce vapor for so long before exposing your soft fleshy belly."

    Maybe they should have used this on the marketing brochures.
    --

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