There's no faux fairness here, I'm not trying to be fair, I am openly against the UK leaving the EU, because it appears to me that leaving has no merits whatsoever. I would like to hear any you can think of.
I'm not a Brit, nor a European, so I'm far from an expert. However, one need not be an expert on the specifics to understand the principle that having to obey the edicts of a commission composed of members of which you are only one, the edicts of which you do not have veto power over, is a de facto ceding of sovereignty, to at least a degree.
If you either do not value sovereignty in principle, or you think that nothing bad enough happened yet to justify retaking sovereignty, that would be a good clarification for you to make.
You know that it's always easier to maintain the status quo, and after all the controversy and hand-wringing since the referendum, you know a second one would favor remaining.
True. The mistake has been realized, a taste of the consequences has been had, and the UK's public would like to undo this mistake. You'd prefer to bind them to it against their will, I presume.
Nice try. More leftist propaganda and spin. "You'd hold them hostage against their will, you fascist!" you say after a completely legitimate referendum was held, after years of campaigning for both sides. Now that the media has gone into full-on, we-never-thought-this-would-actually-happen panic mode, and succeeded in scaring people into thinking that the sky is falling--with the helpful scolding of even the UK's allies, Obama even threatening Britain if they follow through!--now you want another vote! "Now they realized their mistake!" you say. Pathetic. Had the referendum been to stay, and the opposition were calling for another vote, you'd be crying foul as loudly as anyone. Hypocrite.
And if you're really a patriotic Brit, have a little faith in your fellow Brits
I am not, and those Brits just demonstrated horrendous decision-making skills, so my faith in them is low right now.
If the British 60 years ago had that attitude, they'd be speaking German right now.
For the good of Europe, Britain needs to return to a position of leadership and strength, and for that it needs real sovereignty.
Ah so this is the imperialist nostalgia I've heard so much about, first time I've seen it myself. Britain was only ever a superpower thanks to colonialism. Unless you think you can give that a second try, you'll have to accept that Britain is a relatively small country with no notable abundance of natural resources and as such it will never be a superpower comparable to the US, China, Russia, or arguably the EU you just left.
No, it's nothing to do with imperialism or colonialism or being bigger or badder or more powerful than other nations--it's to do with surviving the threats facing Europe today, and the role of leadership the UK played in WWII and the Cold War. If nothing else, the UK needs to be a voice of reason, an example of sanity, and a bastion of Western society and culture (which, though far from perfect, is what has enabled the progress that has been made in the past few millennia), because Europe and the West is currently under siege from barbarians who would return us to a Stone Age society, as well as under renewed threat from Russia (the president of which has stated that "we are in a new cold war").
I've asked this to other Leave supporters: is there something special about the EU's trade and travel agreements that causes them to strip the UK of its sovereignty, and if not, will the UK have to sever all others as well? Will you have to refrain from forming any new ones?
This appears to me another example of selective omission, minimizing, dismissal, and strawmanning. For the sake of argument, leave out trade and travel agreements--what about all the other aspects of sovereignty?
And for the good of its own citizens, it needs to control its borders and immigration--or would you have more foreign Muslims running sex slave enclaves where even your own police will not venture
Still trying to make Cameron choke on his porridge?
What is this? Seriously, what is this? Do you deny that Muslim sex slave rings were operating for years, preying upon young girls? And that UK police covered up these crimes for fear of being accused of racism? And that there are Muslim enclaves within the UK into which the police will not venture? Your response is, "Oh yeah, well, David Cameron called some Fox News guy an idiot"? Are those claims true or false?
or more cleaver-wielding maniacs chopping up people in the streets and boasting red-handed to the cameras?
Murderous madmen who chop people up in the streets and boast to the cameras come in all flavors, the last one I can think of killed Jo Cox and was 100% homegrown. And now your new leaders are struggling to find a way to have their cake and eat it too - regardless of whether the UK is in the EU or not, putting any immigration restrictions in place has roughly the same effect on trade with the EU.
Oh, well, as long as foreign-born Muslim jihadists aren't the only ones doing it, then I guess it's not a problem, per se; if jihadists aren't butchering British soldiers on the street, some other bad guys will be butchering some other people, so it's all the same in the end, right? And being able to sell stuff to other countries is equally important as not being invaded by legions of madmen who want to kill everyone because of who you are, right? I mean, yeah, you could keep some of those guys out of the country, and maybe prevent some innocent people from dying in mass killing sprees, but then you might not have exactly the same trade agreements with some other countries in Europe, and that just wouldn't do.
Given your words thus far, I have doubts about your sincerity. But in case you are seriously interested in discussing this, I would be interested to hear your opinion on this video:
As an outsider, his points seem simple and sensible, and the facts he cites should be verifiable. I would be interested to hear simple, sensible, and factual rebuttals to his points. If he is correct, it seems like leaving the EU is the sensible choice.